Silly Diabetic Aid question

[Worldwide]

I am completely unfamiliar with diabetic first aid. I once found a diabetic that seemed a bit out of it, and I am sure it was probably a blood sugar issue. He said he was fine, and reassured me he would be ok. After a few minutes of observing him he just seemed woozy and wore out. Is there anything I could have done. When I reflect on that moment I can't imagine he was thinking clearly. He was responsive just foggy.

In short what would someone that knows what they are doing have done?

P.S. We were only a mile or so short of our destination. So if he didn't arrive at a reasonable time I could go back for him.

[Lone Wolf]

http://www.survival-center.com/firstaid/diabetic.htm

[Lyle]

Generally speaking, there are some questions you can ask regarding food intake, insulin use, and exercise level to help narrow down the possibilities. I would say, if he were out hiking, it would probably be a low blood sugar (insulin shock) situation.

In the vast majority of cases, if in doubt, and the patient is with it enough to swallow, give some sugar. Candy bar, sweetened drinks, pure sugar, etc. Giving sugar may save a life, since insulin shock is very quick acting and a little sugar goes a long way.

If the opposite were the case, High blood sugar or Diabetic Ketoacidosis, then the small amount of sugar you give will make little difference in the grand scheme of things. Diabetic Ketoacidosis is very slow acting, usually over days, not minutes like insulin shock.

Either way, medical treatment should be sought, unless the patient determines otherwise after he/she is again thinking clearly. If low blood sugar is treated by giving sugar and the patient improves, make sure they follow up with some real food, otherwise it may re-occur quickly.

Edit:
Also, some known diabetics are now prescribed glucagon auto injectors, similar to epi pens for those allergic to bee sting. If they have one, it can be used as a temporary treatment for low blood sugar. If you hike with a diabetic, find out if they have one, if you come across a diabetic having a problem, ask if they have one.

Anyone who regularly ventures out should seek-out advanced first aid training. Wilderness Medical First Responder or Emergency Medical Technician would be even better. The simple 3 or 5 hour Basic First Aid courses many get for their employment simply are not adequate for a real emergency in the back country.

[Jan LiteShoe]

That was a good link.

My husband is a Type 2 diabetic, well-controlled by diet. But he carries hard candy or chocolate along with him, as exercise often causes his blood sugar to drop. He knows he's getting low because he starts feeling edgy, weary, weak, hungry and irritable.

Asking the question "Have you eaten?" might offer some clues, although even I - with normal blood sugar - get a little shaky and low in the blood sugar after some of those climbs.

You are kind to be concerned and keep a quiet watch over a fellow hiker. The guy waved you off, but you still kept an eye out.

[WritinginCT]

My mom's a diabetic (on 3 different insulins) so we're always on the lookout for her sugar spiking or crashing. The info on that link is similar to what her doctor told us to look out for. The other thing we were told is that if her sugar drops to give her a glass of milk instead of juice. Lactose is a simpler sugar for the body to metabolize than fructose. Not practical advice for hiking per se but good to note none the less.


http://www.survival-center.com/firstaid/diabetic.htm

That's a neat link/site - thanks!

[yaduck9]

Might also ask if he / she has a glucose meter on them and if they need help in taking a quick reading.

If its below 80 they need sugar, but be advised I am not a medical professional.

[Jan LiteShoe]

Might also ask if he / she has a glucose meter on them and if they need help in taking a quick reading.

If its below 80 they need sugar, but be advised I am not a medical professional.

This is a really good suggestion.

[Mercy]

When blood sugar drops low, even when it is treated, it takes a little bit for the blood sugar to reach normal levels again. So, even after a "low" diabetic has eaten, it takes a little bit to get any energy back. (Diabetic educators teach to treat the low blood sugar and recheck in 15 minutes.)

Some foods put sugar into the bloodstream faster than others. Chocolate is a little slower than some other sweets. Bread works pretty quickly, too.

Low blood sugar can be extremely energy depleting. A diabetic with low blood sugar can sit down to rest for a minute, because they don't think they have the energy to dig into their pack for food (or their glucose meter.)

Did the diabetic you "found" tell you they were diabetic? (That doesn't seem like information one hiker greets another with unless they were having a problem.):-?

If that were the case, I'd probably be making that person my new friend... as I took my pack off and joined them, I'd be asking if they'd eaten as I pulled my snack out... offering to share... and telling them how I was ready for a break while I stuck around for 15 minutes after I'd knew they'd eaten.

That's just me, but then, I've been on insulin for 40 years.

[Worldwide]

I had met him before, and was aware he was diabetic. He assured me he was cool, and we weren't far from Kincora. When I came upon him he was putting his pack back on and about to grind ahead. I guess he had just eaten something. Otherwise I would have taken off my pack and chilled with him. He is a proud former Marine and didn't seem to want the attention. He showed up a few minutes after me if not I would have gone to see what was going on.

[Jack Tarlin]

I'd address your questions to Bfitz, who posts here often, and knows as much about diabetes as anyone I've talked to.

[sarbar]

http://www.rainforesttreks.com/diabetes.asp
This is my friend Mike's site (he goes by GoBlueHiker). He is a Type 1 he does solo trips quite often so he has posted what works for him :)

[snowhoe]

Lonewolf great link. I cant believe it you got all of us fooled you do care.

[Lone Wolf]

we get a lot of diabetic patients on ambulance runs

[sarbar]

Another thing to think about if you have family or friends who are diabetic - get them an ID bracelet that states that!

Reading the local paper and yet another person with diabetes who was going into a diabetic coma while driving - and the cops who had arrived thought the guy was drunk. It could save their life!! That man was very lucky - another cop showed up who knew the man's history and called for aid for him.

I'd say this - if you come across a diabetic who seems to be having issues, do NOT leave them alone. (My mom was diabetic for a number of years) Often a person can go two ways: the slow down where they appear drunk, not able to talk right or think clearly - which is very dangerous or they can get aggressive, violent. They aggressive behavior is something Type 1's will talk about that their parents had a lot of troubles with.

In the late 90's my mom had her first coma - went into it right in front of us. We were on a ferry coming home (I lived on an island at the time). I spent the ferry ride punching my mother in the arm to keep her awake. She was so incoherent at the time, "I just want to sleep" is all she kept saying. Had I let her do that she may well have died then. She was treated within minutes of the ferry docking - they had to pump her stomach - it was when they found out her kidneys were functioning at less than 10%.

My mom took her diabetes very seriously after that - many with it don't until you have a major failure. But I am grateful I was with her then. (My mother passed away in 2006)

My point being...if you do come across someone with issues, don't necessarily take their word that they are "OK". Hang around and watch, make chatter with them.

[Ekul]

[quote=Mercy;749784]When blood sugar drops low, even when it is treated, it takes a little bit for the blood sugar to reach normal levels again. So, even after a "low" diabetic has eaten, it takes a little bit to get any energy back. (Diabetic educators teach to treat the low blood sugar and recheck in 15 minutes.)

Some foods put sugar into the bloodstream faster than others. Chocolate is a little slower than some other sweets. Bread works pretty quickly, too.

Glucose tablets are a common theme around the 2 diabetics in my family and work quickly. bout the size of a roll of lifesavers.

[LaurieAnn]

I'm a little late posting in this thread as I am a new member. I am also diabetic. I was speaking with my endocrinologist about a week ago because we will be heading out on some wilderness trips soon. I've been having real issues with lows because of weightloss, physical activity and such.

I asked about the glucagon pen and he doesn't think it is necessary in my case. His suggestion was a glucose gel. The doctor said that in cases where I was low and not able to take the gel myself - that Bryan could put it inbetween my teeth and cheek. Anyway I thought I would mention it because I found it interesting. Please check with your doctor first about these things because everyone is different.

[Tinker]

Bienvenue au Whiteblaze, LaurieAnn.:)

[2011_thruhiker]

I am type 1 diabetic. I can tell what my blood sugar is about by just the way I feel. I used to be indifferent to the way I felt and my diabetes-but I got tired of the fact that being sick meant I couldn't do what I wanted to do-hike.
So I took control of my diabetes-but even though I am aggressive towards my diabetes, I don't always get it right.
The best thing imo you can do for a diabetic is when they are woozy and not feeling well, try to get them to sit down and eat something. The rest and food sometimes does wonders. But I have to admit, I am b*tchy when my sugar is off in left field somewhere-I am grumpy and snap at the little things (often the case with a diabetic-you can see yourself doing it, you know it's wrong but you just have no control your emotions, it seems-everythin is out of whack) and often I make no sense as well as trip over everything in my path-literally.

Last year, I was hiking in SNP around May and my sugar was off. A thru hiker came up behind me and slowed right down and didn't pass me although I gave him ample opportunity to do so-he knew something was off with me. Finally after stumbling over a step on the trail he ask me if I was okay, I answered with a very short "fine." Still he stayed with me-once even caught me by my pack as I stumbled once again. After that, I just made myself sit down and did some right at the edge of the trail. He stopped and asked me if I could eat lunch with me. I said sure-but I was too tired to eat. He just nodded and made himself a lunch, then looked at me and decided "he wasn't hungry" and ended up giving me his lunch-I had plenty of food in my pack that wasn't an issue. Which I felt 100% better and apologized to him for my previous rude behavior and explained that I was a diabetic. He just grinned ear to ear and responded "I know." and after he was sure I was okay, he went on before I could get his name-trail name. That was the nicest and best thing he could have ever done. If he is reading this, thank you for your trail magic.

[LaurieAnn]

Bienvenue au Whiteblaze, LaurieAnn.:)

lol - I think that is probably all the French I understand... thank you for the welcome

[LaurieAnn]

I am type 1 diabetic. I can tell what my blood sugar is about by just the way I feel. I used to be indifferent to the way I felt and my diabetes-but I got tired of the fact that being sick meant I couldn't do what I wanted to do-hike.
So I took control of my diabetes-but even though I am aggressive towards my diabetes, I don't always get it right.
The best thing imo you can do for a diabetic is when they are woozy and not feeling well, try to get them to sit down and eat something. The rest and food sometimes does wonders. But I have to admit, I am b*tchy when my sugar is off in left field somewhere-I am grumpy and snap at the little things (often the case with a diabetic-you can see yourself doing it, you know it's wrong but you just have no control your emotions, it seems-everythin is out of whack) and often I make no sense as well as trip over everything in my path-literally.

Last year, I was hiking in SNP around May and my sugar was off. A thru hiker came up behind me and slowed right down and didn't pass me although I gave him ample opportunity to do so-he knew something was off with me. Finally after stumbling over a step on the trail he ask me if I was okay, I answered with a very short "fine." Still he stayed with me-once even caught me by my pack as I stumbled once again. After that, I just made myself sit down and did some right at the edge of the trail. He stopped and asked me if I could eat lunch with me. I said sure-but I was too tired to eat. He just nodded and made himself a lunch, then looked at me and decided "he wasn't hungry" and ended up giving me his lunch-I had plenty of food in my pack that wasn't an issue. Which I felt 100% better and apologized to him for my previous rude behavior and explained that I was a diabetic. He just grinned ear to ear and responded "I know." and after he was sure I was okay, he went on before I could get his name-trail name. That was the nicest and best thing he could have ever done. If he is reading this, thank you for your trail magic.

That's an important and inspiring thing. You definitely had a trail angel - that's for sure.

What amazes me is how quickly levels can drop on the trail. I'm just learning about how my body feels when I have lows and on occasion I don't recognize the feelings or maybe I just don't acknowledge them. I'm also trying to remember not to over-correct - but that has only happened once.

Thank you for sharing that story - it is a shame that you didn't get a name. I bet he has great karma though!

[LaurieAnn]

Sorry for the third post in a row... but a question just popped into my head. Do you test for Ketones when you are on backpacking trips?