View Full Version : Proposed 45 mile power line to be built through North Jersey
I don't know if any one has heard or read about this or how it may affect the AT, but in N.J. PSE&G is currently seeking a permit for a 45 mile power line through North Jersey. With a cost of $650 million dollars the project will affect 15 towns, and will run through Warren, Sussex, Morris, and Essex counties. Towers will be built that will be between 180 to 190 feet tall. Environmentalists are criticizing the proposal citing health hazards, declining property values, and that renewable energy efforts will be hindered.
Johnny Thunder
01-14-2009, 20:18
Sucks but it's not like there aren't a whole mess of other high-tension power lines to cross in that stretch. If anything, it's surprising there aren't more.
Lone Wolf
01-14-2009, 21:46
welcome to the east coast. big demand for power. you wanna walk, deal with it. get off the puter :)
4eyedbuzzard
01-14-2009, 22:11
The AT cuts a corridor from GA to ME. Not being able to cross it with roads, power lines, etc would be absurd and unreasonable.
It will only take a few minutes to walk under them.
daddytwosticks
01-15-2009, 08:40
I'm sure the residents around the HV lines/towers won't be happy. Personally, walking under HV power lines or towers doesn't bother me too much. It breaks up the monotony of the long green tunnel sometimes! :)
Nothing can be done to stop it. Look at the power-lines being built through sky-Meadows park in Virginia. It's unstoppable.
Lybarger
01-15-2009, 09:32
Great views to be had while hiking through the power companies right of way.
Lone Wolf
01-15-2009, 09:33
lotsa nuke size berries to eat too
Think of the impact if they wanted to bury the powerlines instead of putting them on poles.
Some people are criticizing PSE&G for applying to the Board of Public Utilities,so as to bypass a potential process that would require approval from each of the 15 towns affected by the project. Some people say they are doing it this way in an attempt to avoid public scrutiny. "PSE&G is going behind the backs of the communities effected by the power lines",said Jeff Tittel,director of the N.J. branch of the Sierra Club. He urged the BPU to reject the plan for the proposed 500 Kilovolt line. He argues that "these power lines will not only cut an ugly scar across N.J. but will bring dirty coal power into our states along with more pollution and undermine our efforts to deal combat climate change."
Power lines suck when they go through a nice trail or backwoods hiking area.
On the other hand, if they are there already, they provide another place to hike.
Lone Wolf
01-15-2009, 10:14
Power lines suck when they go through a nice trail or backwoods hiking area.
but you sure enjoy your electricity, no?
They can provide another exit route also. Still don't like them. Just saying.
I think a good solution would be whenever a utility or government builds a corridor thorugh a wilderness area, for a highway, or pipeline, or power line, or whatever, they have to provide a wilderness corridor somewhere else, from one wilderness area to another.
but you sure enjoy your electricity, no?Yeah, and we have very cheap electricity and lots of woods, so no real complaints up here.
I like the idea of having to build a wilderness corridor somewhere else though.
What do you think?
I'm not sure how it would be decided where it should go in return.
jersey joe
01-15-2009, 10:18
lotsa nuke size berries to eat too
haha, nice one...
I don't think it is that big of an issue. People need power.
Here is a good article about this project: http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/morris/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1229664463167660.xml&coll=1
Here is a snippet from the article:
"
Project manager John Ribardo told the council yesterday that the line was an upgrade to infrastructure built in the 1920s and 1930s, and is needed to take the pressure off 23 electric lines that will be overloaded beginning as early as 2012 in eastern Pennsylvania and New Jersey. He said the upgrade should have minimal impact on the Highlands, because it is being built along an existing power line.
One major change that the line will require, however, is the dou bling of towers along the route. The increase is necessary for PSE&G to keep the project within the 150-foot wide right-of-way it already owns, officials said. "
All it would take would be that the folks that are getting their ox gored in one place,
give a damn about some conservation folks screaming for attention some place else.
Too much to ask? Probably.
sticks&stones
01-15-2009, 10:41
I wonder if someday powerlines will be obsolete?
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/wireless-0607.html
I wonder if someday powerlines will be obsolete?
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/wireless-0607.htmlI heard of some electrical engineering students that lived by a communications tower and rigged up a big loop antenna in their window to roast hotdogs. Personally, I would be thinking about moving. lol
skinewmexico
01-15-2009, 11:00
I heard of some electrical engineering students that lived by a communications tower and rigged up a big loop antenna in their window to roast hotdogs. Personally, I would be thinking about moving. lol
That's scary.
It could be worse, they could be building thousands of those stinking, tax-subsidized wind turbines, like they're doing where I live. A lot more unsightly.
If this is where I think it is, the forest is already cut for the lines and all that awaits is an upgrade.
They have a saying in Germany, about wind turbines, that your own pigs don't stink.
Alot of the wind farms are built on hog farms, with the farmers making some extra cash, and the neighbours then having two things to complain about. Still, I think wind turbines could be aestheticaly pleasing if they are in the right setting. I think they look good in agricultural settings, but not in natural settings. They are also alot more effective in flat agricultural land than they are in complex wooded terrain.
It would be nice if 'real farmers' could get into the power generating business,
but they are having enough trouble staying in the agricultural business.
jersey joe
01-15-2009, 11:22
If this is where I think it is, the forest is already cut for the lines and all that awaits is an upgrade.
This is exactly what is happening. They are doubling the towers along the same EXISTING line that already has power lines. It should be a non issue.
There was a guy busted for stealing electricity with a copper induction coil just west of the trail/powerline junction south of Keys Gap. At least...that's the local story. I have no confirmation.
I don't know if any one has heard or read about this or how it may affect the AT, but in N.J. PSE&G is currently seeking a permit for a 45 mile power line through North Jersey. With a cost of $650 million dollars the project will affect 15 towns, and will run through Warren, Sussex, Morris, and Essex counties. Towers will be built that will be between 180 to 190 feet tall. Environmentalists are criticizing the proposal citing health hazards, declining property values, and that renewable energy efforts will be hindered.Happened to recently read that NJ residents and environmentalists are still fighting this. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/north_jersey_residents_environ.html
For those that are interested, this issue is now headed to the National Parks Service for review:http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/national_parks_group_opposes_n.html
JustaTouron
03-02-2010, 21:56
They have a saying in Germany, about wind turbines, that your own pigs don't stink.
Alot of the wind farms are built on hog farms, with the farmers making some extra cash, and the neighbours then having two things to complain about. Still, I think wind turbines could be aestheticaly pleasing if they are in the right setting. I think they look good in agricultural settings, but not in natural settings. They are also alot more effective in flat agricultural land than they are in complex wooded terrain.
I would rather see 1000 "ugly" wind turbines next to a hiking trail. Then have them build one coal burning plant somewhere else.
After spending several decades screaming at the top of our lungs that we need to invest more in solar, wind, and hydroelectric, I shutter when a fellow "environmentalist" makes a stupid NIMBY objection when someone tries to actually generate power using something other the petroleum or nukes.
It appears the National Park Service is allowing the public to voice their comments regarding this issue up until March 12th before they make a final decision:http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/express-times/index.ssf/2010/03/national_park_service_extends.html
skinewmexico
03-04-2010, 22:48
My state is covered up with wind turbines, and I hate them. It should be illegal to send that electricty off the Texas grid, since we have to have our vistas ruined to ease the conscience of some.........whatever.
Johnny Thunder
03-05-2010, 12:36
Those ruined vistas bring money and jobs to your state. I'm sure longer unemployment lines would be better.
National Park Service gets 1700 comments on proposed N.J. power line:http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/national_park_service_gets_170.html
JustaTouron
03-18-2010, 12:59
My state is covered up with wind turbines, and I hate them. It should be illegal to send that electricty off the Texas grid, since we have to have our vistas ruined to ease the conscience of some.........whatever.
That would require amending the Constitution and the end result would be catastrophic for the US economy, which is built on the concept of free trade across state boarders.
Rocket Jones
03-18-2010, 21:11
Wind turbines have unforseen negative consequences. Birds and bats are killed by the thousands. They've also documented that microclimates near the turbines are affected, causing localized droughts downwind.
We're learning though, and hopefully these problems can be overcome.
Wise Old Owl
03-18-2010, 21:26
This is what happens when a couple million people forget and leave the light on.
What a bright idea.
Wise Old Owl
03-18-2010, 21:30
Wind turbines have unforseen negative consequences. Birds and bats are killed by the thousands. They've also documented that microclimates near the turbines are affected, causing localized droughts downwind.
We're learning though, and hopefully these problems can be overcome.
RJ some of what you wrote is repeated enviornMental crap... What I mean is you read it somewhere. Please dont take this personally, I have walked around the base of these towers and it is very rare to see dead birds.
i have had birds fly into my car, windows,& house.
Wise Old Owl
03-18-2010, 21:39
forget it...inflamitory :eek:
Rocket Jones
03-18-2010, 22:47
RJ some of what you wrote is repeated enviornMental crap... What I mean is you read it somewhere. Please dont take this personally, I have walked around the base of these towers and it is very rare to see dead birds.
i have had birds fly into my car, windows,& house.
I do realize that there are conflicting studies, and they tend to support the side of whoever is paying for it. :) Since I've read "facts" that support both views, I'll bow to your personal experience, because it's more real than me citing numbers I can't verify.
No harm, no foul.
Wise Old Owl
03-18-2010, 23:24
I feel like an idiot, I tried to remove and replace and the system made two seperate posts.
Kerosene
03-18-2010, 23:33
All's well that ends well.
Wise Old Owl
03-18-2010, 23:34
I feel like an idiot, I tried to remove and replace and the system made two seperate posts.
Folks I get really frustrated when I cannot back up stuff with real science or study, and I cannot verify what is written by some degreed person who has studied this in detail.
So if you can find a study that backs this up, lets say buildings or windmills please post a rebuttal and I will read it.
I am on the fence here and I know there are folk here much smarter than me.:confused:
BobTheBuilder
03-18-2010, 23:45
Half of our electricity is generated by burning coal. There is no reasonable expectation that wind and solar can replace that, ever. There is just not enough power density to meet our needs. The only generating method that could replace it, eventually, is nuclear. This puts the environmental activists in the truly uncomfortable position of lobbying for more nukes. Or turning off the air conditioning.
I just crossed that section with the existing power lines this past Saturday. They are just old telephone poles that honestly look "old" and don't look like they have much capacity for the swath of vegetation they removed. If they are replaced with new towers and higher capacity lines, I don't think much more vegetation would need to be removed; besides, I appreciated the "man-made" view that was available.
You could argue that there is a "natural" (nearly 360 degree) view just a half mile further north at that pile of rocks. Two views are better than one?
It appears this project will move foward:http://blog.nj.com/njv_mark_diionno/2010/03/new_giant_power-line_towers_wi.html
I'm sure the residents around the HV lines/towers won't be happy. Personally, walking under HV power lines or towers doesn't bother me too much. It breaks up the monotony of the long green tunnel sometimes! :)
Great place for blackberries and raspberries.
Graywolf
03-28-2010, 19:15
Wind turbines have unforseen negative consequences. Birds and bats are killed by the thousands. They've also documented that microclimates near the turbines are affected, causing localized droughts downwind.
We're learning though, and hopefully these problems can be overcome.
I would like to see this documentaion..You are harnessing wind, not creating it, so I wonder just how much drought it would actually cause..have you seen how slow theses things turn???I dont think they would effect much anything..
What I worry about is when airlines dump all their fule into the waterways just before landing..Now thats pollution
Graywolf
03-28-2010, 19:32
I wanted to add this to the last post..I do have to say wind turbines to pose a threat to the natural view of the landscapes..there is a lot of cost in them, that we can agree on..We should be pointing at the obvious causes and stop coming up with alternative causes to fight these..
Personnally I think the best "green" is to have each houses go Solar..each house will be running on its own power and there would be no high line gouge through our forests or hundreds of wind towers spread across our mountains..Solar, in all due respect is the way to go..
I have a friend who has a cabin in the Davis Mountains in West Texas..It is 100% solar..It runs clean..Of course it is expensive and the corporations will keep it that way to keep everyone from taping into it...Solar is cheaper then you think, the companies just don't want you to know..But then, thats how it is in this consumer ran world of ours..
Johnny Thunder
03-29-2010, 12:26
Personnally I think the best "green" is to have each houses go Solar..each house will be running on its own power and there would be no high line gouge through our forests or hundreds of wind towers spread across our mountains..Solar, in all due respect is the way to go..
I have a friend who has a cabin in the Davis Mountains in West Texas..It is 100% solar..It runs clean..Of course it is expensive and the corporations will keep it that way to keep everyone from taping into it...Solar is cheaper then you think, the companies just don't want you to know..But then, thats how it is in this consumer ran world of ours..
Graywolf,
Edison's original idea for our modern electric system was built around home-based generators. Maybe it was efficiency, more likely it was his own pig-headed capitalism, but he saw every home with their own diesel machine coughing out juice. If every suburban home had a gas guzzler in the back yard you could bet that our home solar technology would be further advanced as a matter of supplying demand.
The plug-in hybrid follow up to the EV1 is predicated on the idea that folks could charge their home solar batteries during the day and their car batteries when they get home at night. You don't see car companies jumping all over this one, do you? Anyway, the main engineer for the second EV1 (err...EV2?) is a professor at UC Berkley and builds Ford Explorers with Radio Shack parts that are more efficient than Toyota's Prius.
Home solar only recently became cost effective (over the life of the installation). Even with new federal and state-level subsidies the units still cost about $7500.00. (I have a habit of checking the papers in the different states I travel to and see which has the best deals). That's a tough pill to swallow.
Toolshed
03-29-2010, 21:16
I have been concerned about the homeowners for the last 5 years as the PUC mapped and remapped , announced and updated their decisions on where to run the lines.
We live in some big hills in SEPAand have the big hangar power lines (Like Large Alien robots) about 1/2 mile from our house.
Like I said, my concern is with the homeowners and their loss of equity within the new swath of land.
As for being a hiker and getting my panties in a bunch because I can see large silent wind turbines deep within the hills (We have a bunch South of rochester where we have another home) or the large silent (Relatively silent) wire towers that run up/across and down valleys, It just doesn't happen.
These are tiny scars - a few hundred or thousand years after we are gone, there will be no trace they were here...
Group still fighting power line being built through the Delaware Water Gap:http://www.nj.com/warrenreporter/index.ssf/2010/04/save_the_park_group_fights_pse.html
The latest news on this issue is that this project will now be delayed for 3 years:http://mobile.nj.com/advnj/db_102360/contentdetail.htm;jsessionid=C97A1E6970B52284AFAB7 639D784007E?contentguid=b1oBtrcG&storycount=36&detailindex=0&pn=&ps=&full=true
Not wise to eat berries or forage under power lines, especially in the woods. The spray they use every four-five years to keep foliage down is one molecule off from agent orange - don't eat from under power lines!
Plenty of yummy berries along the trail at the right time of year :)
I find it fascinating that you can hear the sound of that electricity running thru those lines when ya walk under them, kinda makes the hair on the back of my neck tingle.lol The one thing i thought of was being they cut across the trail, wouldnt it be nice to have one recepticle on the tower where ya can charge your phone or camera?
I find it fascinating that you can hear the sound of that electricity running thru those lines when ya walk under them, kinda makes the hair on the back of my neck tingle.lol The one thing i thought of was being they cut across the trail, wouldnt it be nice to have one recepticle on the tower where ya can charge your phone or camera?
The power lines are really noisy coming into Aktins, VA near the Settlers Museum. They were crackling in 2002 and still doing the same thing when I rehiked that section in 2010.
I'll look for a recepticle to recharge next time.:D