View Full Version : Split from Thru-Hikers Q&A - Nutrition and Diets on the Trail
I fail to see the link between being a vegan and getting protien. Do you think that animal products are the only source? I eat more protien in a day than my wife, who is not vegan, and seem to do it without eating soy every day, go figure.
A vegan diet can easily be kept on the trail, you just have to plan your resupply accordingly; towns with supermarkets and receiving mail drops.
Fail to see what all the fuss is about.
take-a-knee
10-26-2008, 11:06
I fail to see the link between being a vegan and getting protien. Do you think that animal products are the only source? I eat more protien in a day than my wife, who is not vegan, and seem to do it without eating soy every day, go figure.
A vegan diet can easily be kept on the trail, you just have to plan your resupply accordingly; towns with supermarkets and receiving mail drops.
Fail to see what all the fuss is about.
All proteins are not created equally, some are more bioavailable than others, egg white being the standard at 100%, other animal sources being near that. Corn's protein is about 40% bioavailable. That means a lot of you "well nourished" vegans have well-fed bacteria in your septic systems. How many grams of protein do you consume daily? Have you bothered to count? How do you know you are getting enough? Can you load half you bodyweight on a barbell, bring it to shoulder level and slowly press it over head? Then, hold it overhead and slowly drop into a full squat and rise to standing, keeping the barbell overhead? People who are on a diet/exercise regemine that enables that don't have to worry about winding up in a nursing home from loss of hip function.
All proteins are not created equally, some are more bioavailable than others, egg white being the standard at 100%, other animal sources being near that. Corn's protein is about 40% bioavailable. That means a lot of you "well nourished" vegans have well-fed bacteria in your septic systems. How many grams of protein do you consume daily? Have you bothered to count? How do you know you are getting enough? Can you load half you bodyweight on a barbell, bring it to shoulder level and slowly press it over head? Then, hold it overhead and slowly drop into a full squat and rise to standing, keeping the barbell overhead? People who are on a diet/exercise regemine that enables that don't have to worry about winding up in a nursing home from loss of hip function.I think that's a little over the top. Diet and exercise are very important, but your way is not the only way. You might understand the science of your way, but you don't know what the heck your talking about when it comes to vegan diets and protien.
kristin1065
10-26-2008, 17:53
The major concern (as voiced in nearly every previous post) is getting adequate protein while vegan. Just remember "Don't Get Love Sick"...because you can get ample protein without eating meat!!!!!! It is often easier (more possibilities), however, being vegetarian and having a little dairy.
Dairy - Grains - Legumes - Seeds
While these four groups don't provide complete proteins alone, in combination by this order, they work together to form complete proteins.
By combining any group with the one directly before or after, a complete protein is formed.
Example: Dairy and Legumes/Seeds do NOT form a complete protein
Grains and Legumes DO form a complete protein
Legumes and Seeds DO form a complete protein
You won't have the option of dairy if you are going to remain vegan, so you have two other combinations that will fulfill your nutritional needs!!!!
My favorite is edamame or black beans (legumes) with some sort of pasta (grains). Another good (classic) one is the peanut butter (legume) sandwich (add bread for grain).
take-a-knee
10-26-2008, 21:01
I'll bet you're more likely to have problems with you colon than vegans are to have hip replacements.
Lack of protein doesn't cause your hip joint to wear out, it does cause the muscles that insert near and cross the hip to wither and atrophy (called sarcopenia, or vanishing muscle), leaving the person too weak to lift their ass up from a seated position and stand. This usually presents initially when grandma can't get off of the toilet or needs a grab bar to do so. This is not a byproduct of age, it is a byproduct of living a long time, sitting on your ass, and eating a poor diet. Many prescription drugs (given as a result of the above lifestyle) exacerbate and accelerate this process, statins for heart disease come to mind. Go visit a nursing home, most residents in a wheelchair can walk a few steps, they are just too weak to do so.
As for life expectancy on a vegan diet:
http://www.medindia.net/news/Life-Expectancy-in-India-34235-1.htm
Yeah buddy, they'll only draw a few SS checks if they retire at 62. That'll make sure I get mine so I can hike a lot.
As fior colon problems, grains are the largest contributor to that problem, though high-fat feedlot beef likely shares the blame. Just because you eat meat doesn't mean it has to be high fat.
The healthiest diet is the Paleo Diet, lean meat, fruits and veges, and nuts. The more carbs you add to that the more health issues you'll have.
Barry Sears' Zone Diet will help you get control of your hormones, the Paleo concept addresses food quality.
... As for life expectancy on a vegan diet:
http://www.medindia.net/news/Life-Expectancy-in-India-34235-1.htm
This cited article talks mainly about infant mortality, not long term or end of life problems. India has a large malnourished underclass, many of whom are also vegetarian. It also has a large fraction of population in rural villages and slums, etc. A lot of endemic health problems. Also, not all Indians are vegetarian, so citing whole population figures like this doesn't speak much to the vegetarian issue. You may have a point, but this article doesn't support it very much.
The basic south asian veggie diet is about 1 part lentils to 3 or 4 parts rice or millet, with whatever veggies are going. Eggs aren't eaten much, but curd cheeses and milk are. Some places have a lot of wheat as well. While unpolished rice is considered unfit to serve to a guest, for example, it is ordinary fare in many households. The sauces also contain quite a lot of oil or ghee, so fat content is quite high. Not as high as a north american meat diet, and better quality. Also contains a lot of healthy herbs and spices. In poverty, what gets left out? A lot of the oil, milk, veggies and finally the lentils and rice. The meat eaters have a similar diet, except part of the veggies are replaced with meat and fish. All in all, rather similar to the rest of the asian diets, for which your cited life expectancies are quite high.
As for hip problems, consider the habitual south asian sitting habit, with legs crossed, on the floor. Makes for very mobile hip and knee joints. Also, women spend a lot of time sitting like this for food preparation and other work. So do men, but they might spend more time upright at work.
This is just to indicate that there might be more to the questions than you suggest. The modern north american diet seems to be one of the most unhealthy in the world, while the basic asian model seems relatively healthy. The endemic dietary diseases of the rice eaters are easily controlled by eating unpolished rice, for example, and the rest of the diet seems all good on the face of it. I think that the key is probably that the more we mess with our diets, the more we unbalance and denature them.
As to the op question, I would say that the closer you can get to unprocessed foods on the trail, the better. The difficulty is probably to find such food in smaller resupply stores. But no problem finding carbs and fats. Dried legumes and unprocessed peanuts might be possible. What about fresh fruits and veggies? Hard to mail drop those, so I'd guess you may have to rely on some dried food, or spend more time searching for suitable town supplies of those things. If you know what to look for, I imagine you can forage for at least some of your greens by the trail side, on the move. Do be aware that your dietary cravings are likely to change while out on the trail, and in town stops. Your caloric intake is likely to at least double while you are on the move. As they say, ymmv.
While this is off topic, I'd like to comment on one problem with a strictly vegan diet. It's a matter of degree more than anything, though. The problem is that a vegan diet tends to be less calorie dense than an ordinary north american diet. This is pretty much a good thing, but may lead to calorie deficiency while hiking long distances. There is then a need to eat more bulk. The problem arises because of the general load of pesticide residues and degraded enzymes, vitamins and minerals in modern industrially farmed and processed foods. Eating more of the same in part makes up for the deficiencies, but also overburdens with impurities and poisons. Of course, this is not a strictly vegan problem. I think the more pervasive problem to resupply on the trail would be the probable lack of organic foods, and the relative abundance of highly adulterated and processed foods. Large loads of fats (including trans fats), preservatives, salt, msg and the like.
People who are concerned about such things generally take steps to improve their diets, by eating as much the way they do at home as possible, only more. Some are adamant that their eggs and bacon are trail foods, and there have been many who go out of their way to eat lots of fresh veggies. For me, the main difficulty would probably be to eat as much organic stuff as possible, whether meat or veg.
This cited article talks mainly about infant mortality, not long term or end of life problems. India has a large malnourished underclass, many of whom are also vegetarian. It also has a large fraction of population in rural villages and slums, etc. A lot of endemic health problems. Also, not all Indians are vegetarian, so citing whole population figures like this doesn't speak much to the vegetarian issue. You may have a point, but this article doesn't support it very much.
The basic south asian veggie diet is about 1 part lentils to 3 or 4 parts rice or millet, with whatever veggies are going. Eggs aren't eaten much, but curd cheeses and milk are. Some places have a lot of wheat as well. While unpolished rice is considered unfit to serve to a guest, for example, it is ordinary fare in many households. The sauces also contain quite a lot of oil or ghee, so fat content is quite high. Not as high as a north american meat diet, and better quality. Also contains a lot of healthy herbs and spices. In poverty, what gets left out? A lot of the oil, milk, veggies and finally the lentils and rice. The meat eaters have a similar diet, except part of the veggies are replaced with meat and fish. All in all, rather similar to the rest of the asian diets, for which your cited life expectancies are quite high.
As for hip problems, consider the habitual south asian sitting habit, with legs crossed, on the floor. Makes for very mobile hip and knee joints. Also, women spend a lot of time sitting like this for food preparation and other work. So do men, but they might spend more time upright at work.
This is just to indicate that there might be more to the questions than you suggest. The modern north american diet seems to be one of the most unhealthy in the world, while the basic asian model seems relatively healthy. The endemic dietary diseases of the rice eaters are easily controlled by eating unpolished rice, for example, and the rest of the diet seems all good on the face of it. I think that the key is probably that the more we mess with our diets, the more we unbalance and denature them.
As to the op question, I would say that the closer you can get to unprocessed foods on the trail, the better. The difficulty is probably to find such food in smaller resupply stores. But no problem finding carbs and fats. Dried legumes and unprocessed peanuts might be possible. What about fresh fruits and veggies? Hard to mail drop those, so I'd guess you may have to rely on some dried food, or spend more time searching for suitable town supplies of those things. If you know what to look for, I imagine you can forage for at least some of your greens by the trail side, on the move. Do be aware that your dietary cravings are likely to change while out on the trail, and in town stops. Your caloric intake is likely to at least double while you are on the move. As they say, ymmv.I know many people from India that eat traditional diets, vegetarian though perhaps not strictly vegan, and I have to say they are very healthy diets. I don't think its a fair comparison to confuse vegetarianism with poverty. There is alot wrong with the way most North Americans eat. Using malnourished people in third world countries is a pretty poor defence of our poor eating habits.
There are essentially only 5 things wrong with a vegan diet...
1. insufficient B12
2. insufficient Calcium
3. insufficient Iodine
4. insufficient vitamin D
5. something else I'm forgetting
There are better diets, in my opinion, but most North American diets have alot more wrong with them than the few things missing from a vegan diet, which can be fixed with a few supplements.
This cited article talks mainly about infant mortality, not long term or end of life problems. India has a large malnourished underclass, many of whom are also vegetarian. It also has a large fraction of population in rural villages and slums, etc. A lot of endemic health problems. Also, not all Indians are vegetarian, so citing whole population figures like this doesn't speak much to the vegetarian issue. You may have a point, but this article doesn't support it very much.
The basic south asian veggie diet is about 1 part lentils to 3 or 4 parts rice or millet, with whatever veggies are going. Eggs aren't eaten much, but curd cheeses and milk are. Some places have a lot of wheat as well. While unpolished rice is considered unfit to serve to a guest, for example, it is ordinary fare in many households. The sauces also contain quite a lot of oil or ghee, so fat content is quite high. Not as high as a north american meat diet, and better quality. Also contains a lot of healthy herbs and spices. In poverty, what gets left out? A lot of the oil, milk, veggies and finally the lentils and rice. The meat eaters have a similar diet, except part of the veggies are replaced with meat and fish. All in all, rather similar to the rest of the asian diets, for which your cited life expectancies are quite high.
As for hip problems, consider the habitual south asian sitting habit, with legs crossed, on the floor. Makes for very mobile hip and knee joints. Also, women spend a lot of time sitting like this for food preparation and other work. So do men, but they might spend more time upright at work.
This is just to indicate that there might be more to the questions than you suggest. The modern north american diet seems to be one of the most unhealthy in the world, while the basic asian model seems relatively healthy. The endemic dietary diseases of the rice eaters are easily controlled by eating unpolished rice, for example, and the rest of the diet seems all good on the face of it. I think that the key is probably that the more we mess with our diets, the more we unbalance and denature them.
As to the op question, I would say that the closer you can get to unprocessed foods on the trail, the better. The difficulty is probably to find such food in smaller resupply stores. But no problem finding carbs and fats. Dried legumes and unprocessed peanuts might be possible. What about fresh fruits and veggies? Hard to mail drop those, so I'd guess you may have to rely on some dried food, or spend more time searching for suitable town supplies of those things. If you know what to look for, I imagine you can forage for at least some of your greens by the trail side, on the move. Do be aware that your dietary cravings are likely to change while out on the trail, and in town stops. Your caloric intake is likely to at least double while you are on the move. As they say, ymmv.I meant to say.. great post.
I wasn't all that clear.
The biggest problem that I would foresee (when hiking through almost ANY small, rural town in the U.S.) would be a severe lack of a sufficient amount/variety of vegan-acceptable foods at the local stores and restaurants. In most small rural towns, the local diet tends to focus pretty heavily on meat, dairy and eggs (ESPECIALLY at the local restaurants). I live in a small town in Illinois. Today, out-of-curiosity, I took a quick look at our local stores and restaurants from a vegan point-of-view. My conclusion: Most strict vegans would probably "starve" (or get dietarily bored) if they had to rely solely upon the foods available in our local establishments. I suspect that many small towns along the AT could present you with a similar challenge (but I do not know this for a fact). Thus, you will probably need to primarily rely upon mail drops and visits to "larger" towns for your food resupply.
I am not sure folks understand that vegan food doesn't have to be exotic.
It is primarly a matter of combining grains with legumes, and there are many ways to do that.
There are only 2 things on my normal hiking diet that aren't vegan.
One is skim milk powder. The other is beef jerky.
Stuff I eat...
oats or some other cereal
lentils or split peas or some other legume such as peanuts
raisins or currants or other dried fruit
honey
almonds or some other nuts
vegetable oil
citrus powder with vitamin C, tea, half and half salt.
Without the beef jerky I would need to find B12, and that would solve that. Doing without the milk would make things most difficult nutritionally. I would need to do some research to see how I would get enough vitamin D, calcium, and perhaps some other stuff, but I don't think soy milk and tofu is the only way to go replace calcium. Vitamin D I would like get enough from the sun, but there are sources of that also.
Alot of people can't drink milk, so they are 90% of the way there already.
What do lactose intolerant folks do on the AT? Where do you get your calcium?
I suppose many take lactaid. Does anyone do it differently.
My undertanding is being vegan makes fast food difficult, but grocery shopping is still easy.
Good posts Jak. My worthless 2 cents:
Veggie = poverty is incorrect. It is actually quite the opposite.
Vegans do not have to take any supplements to survive.
Honey is not considered vegan by most vegans.
I can see how they find sources for calcium, but what about B12?
Vitamin D also I can see getting that from the sun, even in winter.
How do vegans get vitamin B12 without supplements?
Also iodine, other than iodized salt, which is arguable a supplement, where do you get that?
Interesting about the honey. Hadn't thought of that. I suppose all the minor bug parts found in vegetables, and all the tiny bugs that must live on plants, like mites and things, must be ok, but bigger bugs and bug products like honey are not ok. Is it ok to wear silk and wool? Just curious? What about microbes, like plankton? Are they ok if incidental? How about as a food source?
Regarding Vitamin B12, according to the Vegan Society,
http://www.vegansociety.com/food/nutrition/b12/
You need either B12 supplements, of B12 fortified foods, and the recommend both.
The more often you take it the less you need to take, so you can get by with small ammounts if you do it regularly enough. Some vegans thing you can get enough from the dirt on vegetables, but this isn't considered a reliable source.
Regarding wool and silk, not sure, but fur and leather are definitely out, as are materials like shellac, which comes from insect wings. They have many good ideas, since many farming and pet breeding practices are excessively cruel, but they actually go as far as to condemn all forms of animal farming and animal husbandry, which is rather extreme. As a group though, they seem to be very tolerant of non-vegan practices. They more or less do their own thing, but don't push it on others. I have to respect that.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Either way, I'm not a vegan and am therefore not going to defend it too much. B12 is found in seaweed, human waste, etc. Iodine is found in seaweed, vegetables, etc. If you follow the general consensus of veganism, than not eating honey makes perfect sense. For most people it is much more than just diet, it is also about compassion and the environment. At the end of the day you do the best you can to make yourself content that you are working towards something you believe in.
You have to understand that it is not one big religion who all worship the same god. A lot (in fact, most) of the veggies I know absolutely HATE p.e.t.a. It is comparable to Jesse Jackson and black people. Despite what some of the media shows you, they are not representatives of their entire culture. In fact, to most people in those cultures they are irrelevant. You have extremist in everything. For example, p.e.t.a is against dogs and cats as pets. Some vegans do not eat most pure cane sugar because it is made using bone char. It goes on and on. As far as wool and silk, for most vegans it is a no no.
I wasn't sure if you were vegan, but didn't intend to word it the way I did to imply that you were. I was serious though. According to the vegan society vegans need B12 fortified or supplemented food, though not much of it if they take it everyday, and if they don't symptoms don't show up for 5-20 years, but although some vegans still disagree, according to the Vegan Society in the UK, vegans need B12 supplements or B12 fortified foods, as sources like dirt and some plants are not reliable enough. Iodine can some from seaweed like you said. There must be traditional inland sources to I would guess, but perhaps not vegan.
They are against raising sheep for wool. I found that interesting. The philosophy FAQ page is quite interesting. I like alot of their ideas. In general I agree that we should live in a way to cause less harm, and encourage natural habitats and natural biodiversity, but I would go about it a little differently. My world would include meat, milk, wool, silk, leather, and fur, but it would be less industrial and less intensive, and certainly more sustainable, but also less cruel, at least less unnaturally cruel. There would have to be less people to make it work though. There is no harmless way of living really. We all take up space. We can do less harm, and live more naturally, but both of those are rather subjective constructs. It is a better world with vegans in it though, and they have some good ideas, but not all the answers, and still many questions.
http://www.vegansociety.com/newsroom/index.php?/plugin/faqs
You have to understand that it is not one big religion who all worship the same god. A lot (in fact, most) of the veggies I know absolutely HATE p.e.t.a. It is comparable to Jesse Jackson and black people. Despite what some of the media shows you, they are not representatives of their entire culture. In fact, to most people in those cultures they are irrelevant. You have extremist in everything. For example, p.e.t.a is against dogs and cats as pets. Some vegans do not eat most pure cane sugar because it is made using bone char. It goes on and on. As far as wool and silk, for most vegans it is a no no.That's a good point.
I got that impression also. There is a Vegan Society, but there is more than one way to practice veganism, and more than one way to define it. Even the idea of raising sheep for wool being wrong isn't that bad of an idea. I think it's wrong in practice, but still very valuable as an idea. We do cause some harm by raising sheep for wool. I just happen to believe we cause less harm, and the 'right sort of harm', if there is such a thing. There are certainly right ways and wrong ways of raising sheep for wool, and right and wrong uses for wool. In general I like most of the vegan ideas, but not most of their practices. I think they oversimplify things too much, but so does everyone.
Oh man, are we having an intelligent and civil discussion on white blaze? I think we better cut this out before my computer explodes. I will PM you some information you might find interesting.
Well, I guess you have PMs disabled? Here is an interesting chart. Ask yourself these questions, then read the chart. Why... are we are the only animals to cook our meat, we have no instinct to hunt down, kill, and eat prey, road kill does not make us hungry, slaughter houses and seeing animals killed is disgusting to most humans, etc.
http://files.meetup.com/371591/herbcarnomnichart.jpg
4eyedbuzzard
01-22-2009, 11:31
Producing anything has "cruel" effects--externalities that are not always immediately considered. For example growing more cotton instead of shearing wool increases tillable acreage, which may be less cruel to sheep, but has a negative "cruel" effect on other wildlife habitat. Producing synthetic fabrics has its own unique effects in terms of industrialization effects on other organisms. The same goes for the food chain and all other effects of us simply existing as a life form.
I can't buy into the vegan cruelty argument. It's ultimately bogus. Life is inherently cruel by definition if it means consuming other life forms, yet this is what all animals with more than one cell do. If I were to be killed in the woods and eaten by a mountain lion, coyotes, carrion, and ultimately bacteria, it isn't cruel--that is a subjective emotional judgement--it's just nature's way. We are consumers and predators of other life forms, like any other animal. Our physiology is that of an omnivore. Our genetic ancestors were predatory scavengers. Life was difficult, and we evolved to be able to efficiently consume both vegetables and meat. IMO, when veganism is taken to an extreme, such as in the context of "cruelty free" lifestyle, like any other philosophical extreme, it's hypocrisy becomes readily apparent.
Most vegans are not big fans of synthetics. I don't know why this is always brought up as an argument.
What do you mean all animals with more than one cell consume life? Are you referring to say elephants eating plants? Plants are living, yes. However, they do not have nervous systems. They do not feel fear or pain.
"We are consumers and predators of other life forms, like any other animal" Again, what???
There was a time in human evolution when it was necessary to hunt and gather to survive. Key word there being evolution.
Please elaborate on the hypocrisy of not eating meat or wearing leather. I really don't understand most of your post.
audiophile
01-22-2009, 12:04
To assuage all fears of nutrient deficiency in vegans check out the USDA recommendations saying that vegetarianism can meet all needs: http://www.mypyramid.gov/tips_resources/vegetarian_diets.html
Yes, they mention that cows milk and eggs are sources of nutrients but you get the idea that all nutritional requirements are met on a plant based diet.
The only vitamin that needs attention is B-12. B-12 is naturally found in dirt but with the advent of modern agricultural practices we are not able to get it from the dirt anymore. But the B-12 that is found it animal products are supplemented into the animals diet. So, all in all, everyone needs supplementation.
As long as one gets their daily caloric requirement with varied plant foods and fortified foods, one will be healthy. Take a look at Becoming Vegan by Vensanto and Melina, written by nutritionists.
And one last thing before I end the hijack, abolitionist vegans (as opposed to welfarists, who object to the treatment of animals) object to the use of animals for our own means. If a being is sentient and has the ability to feel and think, it has the right to it's own being. It's the same reason why we don't eat dogs (they're sentient) or we don't eat cats (they're sentient) or we think killing humans is wrong (they're sentient).
As far as vegan on the trail. It will have to be most postal drops. You can get food at large grocery stores but at convenience store there will not be many options that do not contain meat, milk or animal byproducts.
4eyedbuzzard
01-22-2009, 12:09
As an example, elephants routinely knock down trees in order to eat the higher leaves, and certainly negatively effect and kill other animals other than plants in their daily lives. In fact, in some areas they have a huge impact on their environment due to this behavior. Some species prosper as a result. Others don't. Some are trampled, some starve due to the elephant competing for the same resource, other have their habitat destroyed by the elephant's behavior.
Everything we do and every choice we make simply to fuel our existence has both positive and negative impacts depending upon the point of view that is taken. As I said, growing more cotton may be less cruel to sheep, but it is likely cruel to other species that would starve or be killed by increasing the tillable land needed. The deer that starves to death as a result of its habitat destruction feels no less pain than the sheep who is now spared from shearing.
lol. I think I'm done unless JAK wants to talk some more.
audiophile
01-22-2009, 12:13
As an example, elephants routinely knock down trees in order to eat the higher leaves, and certainly negatively effect and kill other animals other than plants in their daily lives. In fact, in some areas they have a huge impact on their environment due to this behavior. Some species prosper as a result. Others don't. Some are trampled, some starve due to the elephant competing for the same resource, other have their habitat destroyed by the elephant's behavior.
Everything we do and every choice we make simply to fuel our existence has both positive and negative impacts depending upon the point of view that is taken. As I said, growing more cotton may be less cruel to sheep, but it is likely cruel to other species that would starve or be killed by increasing the tillable land needed. The deer that starves to death as a result of its habitat destruction feels no less pain than the sheep who is now spared from shearing.
Well, if you think about it, following this logic would mean that /even more/ animals are harmed by using sheeps wool as opposed to cotton. Simply because the sheep needs to be feed requiring even more land to be tilled than a single cotton field.
Lone Wolf
01-22-2009, 12:15
lol. I think I'm done unless JAK wants to talk some more.
http://www.i-mockery.com/meatatarian/virtues.htm
http://www.i-mockery.com/meatatarian/virtues.htm
no thanks
Sorry I was out. Interesting chart.
I think I'll stick to my concept of "right harm" vs "wrong harm". lol
The wonderful thing about questions is that they often lead into deeper discussions. Besides, this isn't in the "straight forward" section nor did you start this thread in the first place.
Do they not have lentils and split peas in towns along the AT?
audiophile
01-24-2009, 17:34
The problem is that a lot of prepackaged stuff that you find in convenience stores has animal products in them and if you find anything vegan in there, it's usually Cliff bars or junk food, not meal worthy stuff to keep you going for a thru.
Larger supermarkets would have everything a vegan needs but from what I can tell from the companion there is only a good handful that are near the AT and all the rest are quite a few miles away.
Unless those smaller groceries/mini-marts have lentils. That would be awesome. :)
Not sure how you would satisfy your body's need for protein. You need protein to build muscles & recover.
Quinoa, for one, maybe? I ate quite a bit of it as a former vegetarian because of its high protein content and ease of preparation.
The primary way to get complete protiens on a vegan diet is to combine grains with legumes. Quinoa I'm guessing is a grain, not sure, so like oats or barley or any other you would simply combine that with lentils or split peas. When you consider you only need 10% protien on a high energy diet its easy to get enough protien, and all grains and legumes are all more than 10% protien.
Alot of convenience stores carry dried soup mixes with split peas or lentils in them, and there is almost always grains to be had in one form or another. Oats. Grits. Bread. In a pinch if you couldn't find dried lentils or split peas or some other legume you might get by with a bag of frozen peas, or a can of beans. You could used dried beans also if you soaked them overnight or as you hiked, but your likely to find split peas where you would find beans. Beans might add some variety though.
It's mostly a simple matter of combining grains with legumes.
One has the amino acids that the other lacks.
Interestingly, most traditional diets include mixing grains and legumes in some way.
North American Native: Corn, Squash, Beans
Mexico: Corn and Beans
Mediterranean: Pita and Humus
Asia: Rice and Soybeans
many other examples
audiophile
01-24-2009, 18:36
The primary way to get complete protiens on a vegan diet is to combine grains with legumes. Quinoa I'm guessing is a grain, not sure, so like oats or barley or any other you would simply combine that with lentils or split peas. When you consider you only need 10% protien on a high energy diet its easy to get enough protien, and all grains and legumes are all more than 10% protien.
It's mostly a simple matter of combining grains with legumes.
One has the amino acids that the other lacks.It's been shown that you don't need to combine amino acids to create a complete protein: wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_combining) and a more reliable source USDA (http://www.mypyramid.gov/tips_resources/vegetarian_diets.html).
Alot of convenience stores carry dried soup mixes with split peas or lentils in them, and there is almost always grains to be had in one form or another. Oats. Grits. Bread. In a pinch if you couldn't find dried lentils or split peas or some other legume you might get by with a bag of frozen peas, or a can of beans. You could used dried beans also if you soaked them overnight or as you hiked, but your likely to find split peas where you would find beans. Beans might add some variety though.I'd be a little worried about the soup mixes. You'd be surprised at how many things they can put lactose or gelatin or chicken stock into stuff. So, I would rather not put all my eggs in one basket (pun intended, :rolleyes:) and bank on finding vegan stuff at small shops.
Meat eaters have advanced society since the cavemen. That said, I have no problem with those that choose another path.
For many years I was a vegan (the annoying kind that reads every label and takes 3 hours to shop). I was a hard core vegan my entire pregnancy with my son until the last couple days in the hospital where all I had to eat was Jello and eggs (I chose to not eat, it was disgusting what they served! Hello! High cholesterol and food dyes/sugar....)
Oddly a couple weeks after I had my son I had this freaky intense craving for meat. I have had that feeling only once since then. I don't know if it was because my pregnancy was so hard on me.
Since then for the most part I live a 75% veg diet. I'd prefer living a full veg diet but that child loves meat (gotta love that) and my husband who is a confirmed Meatarian.
So back to the trail stuff.....sure, it isn't hard to do it - but you do have to plan and mail drops would be required.
It is odd in a way - I have come up with many veg and vegan recipes over the years but sadly, it puts people off :( I do meat filled stuff and people get excited. If I do a healthy meal sporting powdered soy milk and pan fried tofu....yeah, you can here the rustling of the leaves in the wind. So I keep those recipes to myself. :p
Im not a vegan but do have a degree in Food Science and consider what I eat healthy. Even if I was to find lentils, beans and split peas in some trailtown, Im going to go thru an inordinate amount of fuel boilng these to doneness. Thats why I mail ground flaxseed, whey protein isolate, TVP and powdered milk. These meal additives along with almonds, walnuts, and a vitamin C source like craisins (dried cranberries) give me plenty of everything I need nutritionally.
garlic08
01-29-2009, 11:51
Good thread, good discussions here.
Last year I read an interesting book, "In Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan. His central thesis is "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants". Each clause gets detailed treatment in the book, like what exactly is "food"? (Proposed as something your great-grandmother would recognize as food, probably not a Powerbar.) It's a fairly balanced approach to anyone's diet, independent of morality. Especially interesting is the way he points out the basic failure of Western science to improve our diet. I'd recommend the book to anyone interested in what we eat.
It's too late for us old folks, but a piece in the New York Times last week suggests that the best way to ensure healthy kids is to let them eat dirt and worms:
Here's part of the piece:
Babies Know: A Little Dirt Is Good for You
Published: January 26, 2009
By Jane Brody
Ask mothers why babies are constantly picking things up from the floor or ground and putting them in their mouths, and chances are they’ll say that it’s instinctive — that that’s how babies explore the world. But why the mouth, when sight, hearing, touch and even scent are far better at identifying things?
When my young sons were exploring the streets of Brooklyn, I couldn’t help but wonder how good crushed rock or dried dog droppings could taste when delicious mashed potatoes were routinely rejected.
Since all instinctive behaviors have an evolutionary advantage or they would not have been retained for millions of years, chances are that this one too has helped us survive as a species. And, indeed, accumulating evidence strongly suggests that eating dirt is good for you.
In studies of what is called the hygiene hypothesis, researchers are concluding that organisms like the millions of bacteria, viruses and especially worms that enter the body along with “dirt” spur the development of a healthy immune system. Several continuing studies suggest that worms may help to redirect an immune system that has gone awry and resulted in autoimmune disorders, allergies and asthma.
These studies, along with epidemiological observations, seem to explain why immune system disorders like multiple sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, inflammatory bowel disease, asthma and allergies have risen significantly in the United States and other developed countries.
Training the Immune System
“What a child is doing when he puts things in his mouth is allowing his immune response to explore his environment,” Mary Ruebush, a microbiology and immunology instructor, wrote in her new book, “Why Dirt Is Good” (Kaplan). “Not only does this allow for ‘practice’ of immune responses, which will be necessary for protection, but it also plays a critical role in teaching the immature immune response what is best ignored.”
One leading researcher, Dr. Joel V. Weinstock, the director of gastroenterology and hepatology at Tufts Medical Center in Boston, said in an interview that the immune system at birth “is like an unprogrammed computer. It needs instruction.”
He said that public health measures like cleaning up contaminated water and food have saved the lives of countless children, but they “also eliminated exposure to many organisms that are probably good for us.”
“Children raised in an ultraclean environment,” he added, “are not being exposed to organisms that help them develop appropriate immune regulatory circuits.”
Studies he has conducted with Dr. David Elliott, a gastroenterologist and immunologist at the University of Iowa, indicate that intestinal worms, which have been all but eliminated in developed countries, are “likely to be the biggest player” in regulating the immune system to respond appropriately, Dr. Elliott said in an interview. He added that bacterial and viral infections seem to influence the immune system in the same way, but not as forcefully.
Most worms are harmless, especially in well-nourished people, Dr. Weinstock said.
“There are very few diseases that people get from worms,” he said. “Humans have adapted to the presence of most of them.” .....
submitted by Weary
I love Indian food.
Nothing else for me to add. Carry on...
The problem with brown lentils and beans is that they require too much cooking. True. But there are lots of other lentils (red, yellow green, black, etc.) that can be cooked just about like rice or pasta, with a quick boil and cosy treatment. Similarly, brown rice tends to need longer cooking, but polished rice and most pasta, couscous, and other prepared grains cook quite fast, at most needing a cosy and boilng hot water. Just about any breakfast cereal, like the usual bran/wheat/rye/rice/etc. based flakes/puffs/shreddies/o's/and so on make quick cooking grain courses. If you can find the stuff without too many additives. Add some veggie sauce and you've got a meal.
It isn't necessary to eat completely balanced protein meals every day, or even every week. If you just ate cereals, you could probably get enough of the missing proteins in a few big town stops to last the whole trail. It's a bit tougher to get the greens and fresh veggies and fruits. Also, if you don't mind soya oil (mostly GMO these days) or corn oil (ditto), or most of the other popular cooking oils, you can get quite a lot of vegan fat. Olive oil, hemp oil, etc. is a true bonus. The thing is, you need to quit thinking prepared foods, and scout out the unprocessed foods that are available, or at least the minimally processed, packaged foods. Take the ramen and give away the soup packets. Substitute whatever vegan sauces you find.
Even in a small convenience store in the country, I bet you can most always find some grits or corn flour/meal, some rice, some kind of pasta or prepared cereal. The breakfast cereals may all be sugar, but the grits should be available pretty straight. You may have to carry a bigger bag of staple food, and it might get a bit monotonous until you get a chance to resupply or trade for something new, but I bet it can be done. To give just one example: Take some garlic or garlic powder/ramps/shallots/onion/onion flakes/vegetable flakes/, etc, lightly fry in veg oil, add water and boil/cosy cook with rice/pasta of any kind. Season to taste. This is a basic meal in many peasant countries. Add refried beans, lentils, peas, veggies etc. and it's a feast. In some places, this is the sort of food eaten day in and day out. Why not on the trail?
Peanut butter + bread or any other grain food makes a complete protien.
Whether vegan or not, only 10% of hiking calories need to come from protien. That is easy to do on any diet. Protiens are not the problem. B12 is the only real problem on a strict vegan, easily fixed with supplements. Alot of non-vegan hikers seem to think supplements are needed, though they are not, unless your vegan, and then only for B12 really. Protien is not a big deal.
Consider 100g of peanuts + 100g of oats...
Protiens = 25g + 17g = 43g = 172 kcal = 17%
Carbohydrates = 21g + 66g = 87g = 348 kcal = 34%
Fats = 48g + 7g = 55g = 495 kcal = 42%
Fibre = 9g + 11g = 20g = 0 kcal
TOTAL CALORIES = 1015 kcal
So there is 17% protien, and its complete protien. Combine legumes with grains and avoid too many empty calories and you should have no problem getting 10% protien.
Most good hiking diets are very nearly vegan anyway. I'm probably 90% vegan ( and 10% virgin ; )