Looking at a new pack

[randyg45]

There's been little discussion, and less recent discussion, of zpacks (not Gregory): http://www.zpacks.com/. There's been no discussion that I can find of the cuben fiber versions.
Anyone have any first-hand experience?
Secondhand?
Pure speculation?:D

[dloome]

First hand: I ran into the guy who makes these packs when I was thru hiking the PCT in '07. He and his lady friend were both hiking with cuben packs. They seemed to be holding up fine (this was early on, maybe a few hundred miles in) but it seemed like they were taking VERY good care of them and also had extremely minimal desert gear inside. He also knew how to repair the thing on-trail if something happened to it. Not sure if he was planning on continuing to use it in the Sierras or beyond.

Speculation/opinions on the SUL/XUL thing or whatever they call it now: There's no way you could get me to carry that kind of pack on a long distance hike. I think the difference in effort it takes to carry a 6 oz pack vs. a 1 lb pack is negligible to your body, and I'd much rather carry something I don't have to baby- Something UNlike the three Gossamer Gear silnylon packs I've now seen with giant tears in them from totally mundane things- Crawling under a blowdown, setting it down on a sharp rock, etc. Ridiculous. "Oh, but MY extreme-super-uber-ultra-ultralight pack has 10982384723 miles on it!" There's exceptions to everything. I don't care, and I'm not impressed.

I think at a certain point in lowering pack weight, there is a point of diminishing returns: For example, when you first start dropping weight from a traditional setup, you're typically dropping POUNDS at a time while experiencing no real loss in durability or functionality. But at a certain point, you're talking about saving fractions of ounces at the expense of durability, comfort, etc. IMHO things like silnylon packs are indicative of the latter, and are a fundamentally bad idea.

So me, I'd rather carry a pared down Golite Jam2 weighing not much more than a pound that I can beat on, throw down on rocks, strap crampons to, etc. and not worry about it. I could give up a great deal of this durability and the subsequent peace of mind it gives me by switching to something half a pound lighter, but I guarantee my body won't know the difference.

[YoungMoose]

they look like pieces of ****. Sorry for my language lol

[dloome]

*BUZZER*

Wrong. There is a great deal of fantastic gear that doesn't look anything like mass produced stuff. Value function over aesthetics and you'll be much happier in life.

[garlic08]

Since you asked for speculation...

I would stay away from it. I tried a Gossamer Gear pack in spinnaker cloth, saved a few ounces over the relatively strong silnylon version. Like Bleach says, what a mistake that was, way beyond the point of diminishing returns. I had to baby it and could push a finger through it if I tried. Within a month, I had lost all my weight savings in added duct tape and thread. Next I used the silnylon version and it worked fine for me, but again I have to agree with Bleach. I think my next pack will be heavier cloth and weigh a few more ounces.

[Quoddy]

I have a Zpacks Blast 26, but haven't put enough miles on it yet to give a real review. Even though it's incredibly light, it's really tough stuff. I like the idea that mice and other critters can't eat through this weight cuben fiber which is why I got a food bag of the same weight material.

[daddytwosticks]

Quoddy...can you tell us about the cuben fiber food bag? I didn't know this fabric was critter (mice, flying squirrels?) proof!

[SGT Rock]

Don't know about this pack exactly - but I gotta agree about getting lighter just for the sake of getting light. I got down to sub 5 pound base with stuff like this and wasn't very happy with the set up. My "base" is about 11 pounds and I am very happy with it.

[Quoddy]

Quoddy...can you tell us about the cuben fiber food bag? I didn't know this fabric was critter (mice, flying squirrels?) proof!
The pack (http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/blast.shtml) and the food bags (http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/stuff_sacks.shtml) are made of 1.5oz cuben fiber which is about 2.5 times the thickness of most cuben tarps and lighter duty gear. Note that the stuff sacks are made of the standard 0.6oz cuben.

[Dogwood]

I'm not positive whether the people I met had anything to do with ZPacks, but I'm almost sure I met that same couple(sounds just like them and their set ups)near lake Morena in 08 and I did watch him repair his cuben fiber pack. In a brief discussion w/ him he told me he does go to greater lengths to treat his cuben pack with greater care. His main concerns were punctures and proper stitching construction. As he might have been trying to gain publicity for cuben fiber packs, he didn't directly tell me, but reading between the lines, I got the sense that he went through the packs more regularly than other packs made with more durable fabrics. He also related to me that his cuben fiber packs had gone through several transitions and each version had gotten progressively better in terms of construction, functionality, and durability.

Thanks Quoddy for the heads up. I wasn't aware that cuben came in different wts. I would like to hear a long term report in the furture.

[daddytwosticks]

Thanks Quoddy...I learn something new every day on this site. :)

[hootyhoo]

I think at a certain point in lowering pack weight, there is a point of diminishing returns: For example, when you first start dropping weight from a traditional setup, you're typically dropping POUNDS at a time while experiencing no real loss in durability or functionality. But at a certain point, you're talking about saving fractions of ounces at the expense of durability, comfort, etc. IMHO things like silnylon packs are indicative of the latter, and are a fundamentally bad idea.



That is the best description I have heard - very accurate -- the law of diminishing returns. I think there is point where you shave weight just to shave weight and the obsession leads blindly to a sacrafice of reasonable durability. How about the two guys I ran into that were out for an overnighter with their little bitty packs - one of them was showing of his "survival necklace". It was the silliest thing I had ever seen. He had even ruined a good Swiss army knife just to strip the scissors out of it. Its a freakin' overnighter dude - that silly little necklace aint gonna save you. But he had left everything at home --like a real light source, a real knife (or the rest of the one he destroyed to make his little necklace). God forbid he did find himself lost and in trouble and really need to survive.

[Ramble~On]

As I get older I realize how much I enjoy a lighter pack.
Backpacking equipment has come a long way since I first got into it.
I'm 40 and am sure there are people who used to carry cast iron cookware, canvas tents and axes to go camping -
I still don't weigh my pack and don't care to know the exact number of grams or ounces I'm carrying. Weight of gear is important to me and I do go out of my way to keep my gear light but I'm in no way a gram pincher.
Seems there are more and more people who are so involved in shedding every gram and ounce that they are bordering on safety issues when it comes to being prepared to handle the unexpected.
I understand the Cody Lundin "Survival Necklace" type philosophy but if you are already wearing a backpack...isn't it essentially a big survival kit already...and it can contain everything you'd need if you packed it.
--I'll leave the scissors on my knife - they're pretty useful and keep me from carrying fingernail clippers.

I think it was Sgt. Rock that said something along the lines of "The more I carry the more I like camping, the less I carry the more I like hiking"

I like a balance.