Heaven forbid nobody's family watched Dateline tonight that's planning a thru. I was told by a friend that is already concerned about me going. Some psycho killed 2 people at the Wapiti shelter in VA in 1981 and got out of jail in the 90's and tried again last year and was not successful. God help all of you with overprotective family that they didn't see this!!!

That's the problem with our prison system. Let violent offenders back on the street after having served 1/2 their term while hiding behind the excuse that there is simply not enough room but yet they find a way to house thousands of non violent offenders who are often serving longer sentences than the murderers and rapists. That parole board should be under review. To let a man as deeply disturbed as that sick bastard was back out on the street is negligible.

I watched the last 30 minurtes of the show after my father and wife's best friend called and told me it was on. I am 35 years old and my parents worry like he!! everytime I take off on a multi day trip on the AT or elsewhere. There are people like Mr. Smith everwhere but the way I see it is we can't live in fear trapped in our homes worrying about, get out and enjoy life, it's too short.

You're more safe on the trail!

geek

Well, that's one less psycho to worry about.

You're more safe on the trail!

geek

I tell people all the time, mainly the people who say I am crazy for being out there, you are more likely to be killed in a car accident going to work everday than something violent happening to me on the trail.

Psycho on the trail! Wheres that gun thread at? Rockhound you are not going to believe it but I agree with you 100%. The prisons are jacked up!

Parole is a bit messed up but I think the real travesty in this case started with the prosecutor taking a plea agreement that put him in jail for such a small amount of time. Have the stones to try the case. And shame on that judge for even accepting that plea deal in the first place.

Most violent crimes happen in cities. You take your chances wherever you go. Without stats I can't say for sure, but I'd be willing to bet a home-cooked meal that more hikers have been killed ON the AT by lightning than murderers.

....................Then your relatives will tell you how likely you are to get struck by lightning..

Without stats I can't say for sure, but I'd be willing to bet a home-cooked meal that more hikers have been killed ON the AT by lightning than murderers.


nope

My parents called me frantically and said - you've gotta turn this on, now. Unbelievably bad timing for me. I wrote about it: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=261784

Damn you, Dateline, for scaring my family right before I leave!

That's the problem with our prison system. Let violent offenders back on the street after having served 1/2 their term while hiding behind the excuse that there is simply not enough room but yet they find a way to house thousands of non violent offenders who are often serving longer sentences than the murderers and rapists. That parole board should be under review. To let a man as deeply disturbed as that sick bastard was back out on the street is negligible.
Can't blame that on the prison system. The prosecutor was the one who made the deal.

Can't blame that on the prison system. The prosecutor was the one who made the deal.
This is true. A prosecutor worth his weight should have made sure there was no chance this guy would have ever seen the light of day again. I'd still like to know when this, "Divide your sentence by 2 and that's how long you'll serve" started. All it does is create an illusion of being tough on crime while keeping a revolving door system in our prisons in place.

I'd refer to guns on the AT thread, and my philosophy of out of site out of mind. I have been known to carry one of my pistols when I hike if the mood stikes me. No one else has ever known when I was carrying or what I was carrying. I've eaten breakfast with park rangers, slept in church hostels, and conversed with many many folks on the trail. Now if your going to get drunk, smoke herb, party in town, or have the tendency to have a big mouth then carrying would probably not be a smart move for you. However, if you hike to hike and not to have a barhop marathon up the AT corridor your more than likely to never have a problem with carrying. I know when I'm carrying, no one else does. I know I can draw quickly and shoot as accurately as anyone can when adrenaline is pumping through your body.

Mostly use your common sense and if you feel like someone isn't right keep walking and move on down the trail.

I saw the special, the corrections system sucks, and well thats why I have a gun at home and on the trail.

When was it on??

And anyone know the name of it?

Was it about just the killings on the AT?

Need some info in case my parents saw it. It will make my mom MORE of a nervous wreck if she saw it.

I'd refer to guns on the AT thread, and my philosophy of out of site out of mind. I have been known to carry one of my pistols when I hike if the mood stikes me. No one else has ever known when I was carrying or what I was carrying. I've eaten breakfast with park rangers, slept in church hostels, and conversed with many many folks on the trail. Now if your going to get drunk, smoke herb, party in town, or have the tendency to have a big mouth then carrying would probably not be a smart move for you. However, if you hike to hike and not to have a barhop marathon up the AT corridor your more than likely to never have a problem with carrying. I know when I'm carrying, no one else does. I know I can draw quickly and shoot as accurately as anyone can when adrenaline is pumping through your body.

Mostly use your common sense and if you feel like someone isn't right keep walking and move on down the trail.

I saw the special, the corrections system sucks, and well thats why I have a gun at home and on the trail.

Guns are great in the right hands. Just remember that if you aren't willing to use it don't carry it. It can cause more problems than it solves.

Guns are great in the right hands. ...

And "the right hands" does not include the hands of felons, especially felons who commit gun-related crimes.

Such as carrying illegally.

Rain Man

.

Guns are great in the right hands. Just remember that if you aren't willing to use it don't carry it. It can cause more problems than it solves.

well duh!

When was it on??

And anyone know the name of it?

Was it about just the killings on the AT?

Need some info in case my parents saw it. It will make my mom MORE of a nervous wreck if she saw it.
Here's the article from Dateline. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29187510/

I'd refer to guns on the AT thread, and my philosophy of out of site out of mind. I have been known to carry one of my pistols when I hike if the mood stikes me. No one else has ever known when I was carrying or what I was carrying. I've eaten breakfast with park rangers, slept in church hostels, and conversed with many many folks on the trail. Now if your going to get drunk, smoke herb, party in town, or have the tendency to have a big mouth then carrying would probably not be a smart move for you. However, if you hike to hike and not to have a barhop marathon up the AT corridor your more than likely to never have a problem with carrying. I know when I'm carrying, no one else does. I know I can draw quickly and shoot as accurately as anyone can when adrenaline is pumping through your body.

Mostly use your common sense and if you feel like someone isn't right keep walking and move on down the trail.

I saw the special, the corrections system sucks, and well thats why I have a gun at home and on the trail.
You sound like a responsible gun owner and it would'nt be a bad thing to have more of you on the trail. I just hope this story does not inspire those who might not be so responsible or experienced to decide to hit the trail packin' heat. Even if armed, however, I don't think any of Smiths victims would have fared any better. Susan Ramsay and Robert Mountford jr were attacked in their sleep and the two fisherman that survived were attacked suddenly and without any apparent reason. Doesn't allow for a lot of reaction time.

you choose to be a victim

You sound like a responsible gun owner and it would'nt be a bad thing to have more of you on the trail. I just hope this story does not inspire those who might not be so responsible or experienced to decide to hit the trail packin' heat. Even if armed, however, I don't think any of Smiths victims would have fared any better. Susan Ramsay and Robert Mountford jr were attacked in their sleep and the two fisherman that survived were attacked suddenly and without any apparent reason. Doesn't allow for a lot of reaction time.
This gun issue is kind of a red herring in this scenario. Guns can get you out of a pickle in some situations, but not all. There's no perfect defense.

Seems to me the real issue in this scenario is about stealth camping to increase safety and staying away from shelters.

you choose to be a victim

B.S. You can be neurotically careful and still get iced.

your choice too to be a victim

B.S. You can be neurotically careful and still get iced.
So, walking through a bad neighborhood at night is not making yourself a victim?

Some people make choices where there are consequences. I wouldn't say that's LOOKING to be a victim.
Besides hiking, I also ride a bicycle and a motorcycle. If I get killed, it isn't because I CHOSE to get killed, It's because I felt the activity was worth the risk.
I used to run a mission in a bad neighborhood because I thought I could help people. We ran out of money and had to close. I had my life threatened several times. It was worth the risk.

B.S. You can be neurotically careful and still get iced.

Some people make choices where there are consequences. I wouldn't say that's LOOKING to be a victim.
Besides hiking, I also ride a bicycle and a motorcycle. If I get killed, it isn't because I CHOSE to get killed, It's because I felt the activity was worth the risk.
I used to run a mission in a bad neighborhood because I thought I could help people. We ran out of money and had to close. I had my life threatened several times. It was worth the risk.
Yes, some people make choices where there are consequences; actually we all do that.

You assess your own risk and act accordingly. However, you seemed to think someone is "Neurotic" because their actions to avoid risk is way out of sync with yours, that's arrogant.

It maybe true that one can be neurotically careful (whatever constitutes that in your opinion) and still be "iced", but we all (including you) seek to avoid risks in our own way.

John Gault "However, you seemed to think someone is "Neurotic" because their actions to avoid risk is way out of sync with yours, that's arrogant".
Maybe I should have said "One may be neurotically careful". I did not mean to imply anyone in particular.
I agree with the rest of your assessment. Being as careful as we know how is the best way to minimize the possibility of harm or death, but it can't prevent it, and, just because folks participate in dangerous activities it doesn't mean they have a death wish. Maybe I read into Lone Wolf's response, but maybe he was just characteristically being blunt, trying to make a point. If so, I apparantly misunderstood it.

I'm fairly new to this site, but I've seen little else that's a "hot button" issue as packin' heat. A great deal of my friends and family are trying to get me to carry on my thru. With me living in the great state of Tennessee a CHL would permit me to carry everywhere except NY and VT, that being said, I don't feel the need to take it that far. There's freaks and morons everywhere you go whether it be the inner city or the AT. I'm just going to hike my hike and say que sera, sera.

Actually a Tennessee permit would not be valid in Maine, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, or Massachusetts. You would be OK in Vermont. http://www.state.tn.us/safety/handgun/reciprocity.htm

Oh, ok. I guess I read the info wrong. Thanks for the correction.

No problem man.

Oh, Sgt. Rock, you live in Maryville, or as they say here in the wonderful land of East Tn, Maravull! I've only lived here for a year and a half, but this is an amazing place we call home!

Amen. Just got down out of the Smokies hours ago.

Nice!! I'm doing Ace Gap Trail tomorrow with a full pack for practice!

I haven't done that one yet. I looked at it on the map. It's a good hike, but the AT is a lot tougher.

I'm sure. There's minimal elevation change, but I'm just trying to log some good mileage. I've been doing a lot of different trails around the Townsend side as of late. I read someone on here say nothing prepares you for hiking everyday, like hiking everyday and I took that to heart and while I'm not hiking EVERYDAY, I'm doing the best I can and taking advantage of living 45 minutes from the park!!

The trail is only as safe as the areas it runs through, and some of those areas aren't very safe at all.

My parents were watching this and I reminded them about my section hike planned for the spring, and my dad just said, "He's in jail now."

My wife's parents would get ulcers if they'd seen that.

You are far more likely to die chugging down doritos and beer sitting on your couch, than getting gunned down by a psyco in the woods, and if you are an adult whose parents worry everytime you go hiking, my advice is for you to cut yhe umbilical cord, quit whining or go back to playing x-box in your mommy's basement.

if you are an adult whose parents worry everytime you go hiking, my advice is for you to cut yhe umbilical cord, quit whining or go back to playing x-box in your mommy's basement.

Nice attitude. I don't believe wanting family to be easy about a hiker's adventurer required a response of that sort. On the other hand, I'm thinking darn few people worry about you.

Regards,
Jager

My parents called me frantically and said - you've gotta turn this on, now. Unbelievably bad timing for me. I wrote about it: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=261784

Damn you, Dateline, for scaring my family right before I leave!

Tell your family that 10x more people were shot that same day just in Chicago. I don't know where your parents live, but maybe in their town too. You can't legislate crazy people, they can happen anywhere.

Your family will always worry about you , and thats okay . Send them pics of you enjoying this once in a lifetime adventure with all the new friends you've now made . Tell them that you are having such a great time and every week have a different family member maildrop something to you along the trail . Best of Luck and remember also to include the family in your day to day experiences with a letter or phone call once a week .

I live in a typical small college town.

Actually, the school isn't that typical, as it's extremely expensive and extremely well-heeled. Its campus is well-patrolled by a large security force.

That being said, one has a greater chance of becoming the victim of random violence on the Dartmouth College campus on any given weekend than one does while hiking on the Appalachian Trail not for a weekend, but for weeks and weeks, if not months.

One's own home or workplace is more dangerous than the A.T.

People that worry about violence and risk on the Trail should look closer tohome.

Lots of good ideas here: illegally carry an unpermitted gun across state lines, tell off family members who care about you, and blame people murdred in their sleep. Nice. But hey, if burying a gat in the bottom of your pack makes you feel safer and solves your insecurity problem, go for it. It's certainly easier than making an effort to understand the real risks.

Dateline is in the scare story business. Why bite?

Dateline is in the scare story business. Why bite?

Because for every 2,000 +/- thru hikers who has reached Katahdin or Springer and become a 2,000 miler, one was killed by a complete stranger in the attempt?

I live in a typical small college town.

Actually, the school isn't that typical, as it's extremely expensive and extremely well-heeled. Its campus is well-patrolled by a large security force.

That being said, one has a greater chance of becoming the victim of random violence on the Dartmouth College campus on any given weekend than one does while hiking on the Appalachian Trail not for a weekend, but for weeks and weeks, if not months.

One's own home or workplace is more dangerous than the A.T.

People that worry about violence and risk on the Trail should look closer tohome.

doesn't mean a person shouldn't carry some sort of protection.

doesn't mean a person shouldn't carry some sort of protection.

I am not sure how many Dartmouth students have been murdered in Hanover by complete strangers since the school was founded in the late 18th century.

But I bet its less than the number of thru hikers (5) who have been killed by complete strangers on the AT.

If I am wrong about that, parents might be well advised to take a closed look at Cornell or even Amherst.

Because for every 2,000 +/- thru hikers who has reached Katahdin or Springer and become a 2,000 miler, one was killed by a complete stranger in the attempt?

Really, one of every 2000 thru hikers was murdered? 9 murders in 40 years, and you're sure every victim was a thru-hiker? You probably never even noticed the other 3.9985 million trail users out there each year.

But hey, good on you for facing facts. Your world is obviously a lot scarier than mine. You should watch Dateline more often.

buncha rapes and assaults too

True, true. I carry pepper spray. Primarily for dog repellent. Much more accessible than a gun buried in the bottom of a pack, and consequently much more effective against those types of attacks too.

True, true. I carry pepper spray. Primarily for dog repellent. Much more accessible than a gun buried in the bottom of a pack, and consequently much more effective against those types of attacks too.

:D people who carry don't leave it at the bottom of their pack. duh! :rolleyes:

The one guy I know who carries does. Maybe your experience covers the entire gun toting community, but somehow I doubt it.

doesn't mean a person shouldn't carry some sort of protection.

Like a trojan in your wallet?

Because for every 2,000 +/- thru hikers who has reached Katahdin or Springer and become a 2,000 miler, one was killed by a complete stranger in the attempt?
Aint statistics great. Do you know that 95% of all statistical data can be warped or manipulated to defend both sides of any issue. Let's see here. You have included only the people who have completed thru hikes and have decided to become a statistic themselves. Not everyone who completes a thru gets a patch or certificate. It's not about that for some. You all so failed to include the 9 of 10 who don't complete there thru. Let's see. You also did not include the tens of thousands of section hikers, weekend warriors, spring breakers etc.... But if you want peddle fear by painting the illussion that 1 of every 2000 AT hikers are murdered feel free. I aint buying. You just keep living in fear. The AT is safer than walking the streets of any city in America.

The AT is safer than walking the streets of any city in America.

i bet all the victims thought that way.

Five THRU HIKERS have been murdered by complete strangers on the AT.

If you think that number is in line with what "one should expect" based the gritty reality of life in your own home town, that's rather sad.

Five THRU HIKERS have been murdered by complete strangers on the AT.

If you think that number is in line with what "one should expect" based the gritty reality of life in your own home town, that's rather sad.

Roughly 10K recorded thru-hikers (plus an unknown number of unrecorded), about 1 in 5 finishes, 5 murders, so < 1 murder per 10K thru attempts. Actually, yes, that is the gritty reality of American cities. Do the math.

4 of those 5 victims were shot while sleeping in a shelter (or should I say they "chose to be shot while sleeping" to be consistent with your blame the victim mentality), and 1 was hacked to death preparing breakfast at a shelter. 80% sleeping, 100% at shelters. Hmmm ... you just keep on being scared. It really is a whole lot easier than trying to understand the facts.

Far fewer than 1 in 10,000 people are murdered during each 6 month (or less) period in the places where most of us live.

And fewer still by total strangers.

And still fewer among the prevailing racial demographic of thu hikers.

But if you want to continue to believe that 5 murdered thu hikers is "about what one should expect" (my quotes), go ahead.

The most dangerous thing about hiking on the AT. Driving to the trailhead!

Far fewer than 1 in 10,000 people are murdered during each 6 month (or less) period in the places where most of us live.


All those thru hiker murders did not occur over a six month period either. But why would you let yourself get confused by the facts now, after all these blissful years?

Roughly 10K recorded thru-hikers (plus an unknown number of unrecorded), about 1 in 5 finishes, 5 murders, so < 1 murder per 10K thru attempts. Actually, yes, that is the gritty reality of American cities. Do the math.

4 of those 5 victims were shot while sleeping in a shelter (or should I say they "chose to be shot while sleeping" to be consistent with your blame the victim mentality), and 1 was hacked to death preparing breakfast at a shelter. 80% sleeping, 100% at shelters. Hmmm ... you just keep on being scared. It really is a whole lot easier than trying to understand the facts.

You aren't really a thru hiker unless you finish. Anyone murdered on the trail obviously didn't finish. So you really need to look at 5 murders vs all who hike the trail. The statistic is actually pretty low.

Far fewer than 1 in 10,000 people are murdered during each 6 month (or less) period in the places where most of us live.

And fewer still by total strangers.

And still fewer among the prevailing racial demographic of thu hikers.

But if you want to continue to believe that 5 murdered thu hikers is "about what one should expect" (my quotes), go ahead.

Do you have proof that all of the 5 murdered were registered thru hikers?

Good grief these threads get so full of armchair experts it is amazing anyone doesn't die from the the level of BS inflicted.

After the A**hole last spring. I'm carrying. And yes, I know how to use it. It is not in my pack and has a slug in the chamber.

With all due respect, if 5 thru hikers had been killed by lightening on the AT (there haven't been), you wouldn't hear a chorus of people saying that thru hikers are as safe from lightening on the trail as in their own home towns.

No. You would hear people saying that extra caution is needed with regard to lightening to make for a safe and enjoyable trip.

You aren't really a thru hiker unless you finish. Anyone murdered on the trail obviously didn't finish. So you really need to look at 5 murders vs all who hike the trail. The statistic is actually pretty low.
But look at if they had planned on thru-hiking. True a hiker that is murdered does not finish but they were intending to finish. Why would you deny a murdered hiker the intent?

But look at if they had planned on thru-hiking. True a hiker that is murdered does not finish but they were intending to finish. Why would you deny a murdered hiker the intent?

No problem. But how many people have started the trail intending to finish it? And how many of them did not register their intent?

With all due respect, if 5 thru hikers had been killed by lightening on the AT (there haven't been), you wouldn't hear a chorus of people saying that thru hikers are as safe from lightening on the trail as in their own home towns.

No. You would hear people saying that extra caution is needed with regard to lightening to make for a safe and enjoyable trip.

You still haven't stated your knowledge that these 5 were in fact intending to be thru hikers, and whether they registered that intent.

You still haven't stated your knowledge that these 5 were in fact intending to be thru hikers, and whether they registered that intent.

These individuals were thru hiking when they were killed on the AT:

Molly LaRue
Geoffrey Hood
Susan Ramsey
Robert Mountford
Janice Balza

The others killed on or near the AT were not thu hiking.

These individuals were thru hiking when they were killed on the AT:

Molly LaRue
Geoffrey Hood
Susan Ramsey
Robert Mountford
Janice Balza

The others killed on or near the AT were not thu hiking.

You still don't know how many people have started the AT with the intention of completing it. Therefore your statistics are bogus.

I wonder how many people have been murdered in Marlboro MA over the past 25+ years. Better go wrap yourself in bubble wrap and hide out in your basement rick.

By the way, Marlborough averages 1 murder and 7 rapes per year. If I were you I'd go somewhere safer like the AT

I still rather pitch my tent on the trail somewhere than in Walmart's parking lot.

There are pyschos everywhere, just in civilization such as towns, cities, etc. they can just find you easier-be smart to be safe.