View Full Version : Tarptents in Wind.
flemdawg1
02-17-2009, 15:07
Going winter hiking in the Smokies next week and spending a night on Mt. Sterling. Will a Tarptent Rainshadow 2 (or similar model) keep enough wind out? I'm trying to decide between the TT and a heavier 2-wall SwissGear tent to carry. And my wife will def appreciate a warmer tent.
I'd take the warmer tent for the wife :)
How warm are your sleeping bags? Also, check the forecast the day you're ready to leave. We use Tarptents in cold, windy weather, but carry very warm sleeping bags, lots of food, some adult beverages, and warm clothes. (The astute mathematician would probably calculate that carrying a slightly heavier tent and less of all the other stuff would be a weight savings, but then we'd be stuck inside the tent if we wanted to be warm.) Siting the Tarptent is important. You can also block some of the wind by putting stuff against the mesh on the windward side.
Blissful
02-17-2009, 18:28
Tarp tents can blow over if not staked right. It's happened to me with my squall several times, but I'm better at setting the thing up.
garlic08
02-17-2009, 18:48
Tarptents, almost by design, are pretty lousy at keeping wind out. It sounds like you have enough experience with it to know that, but maybe not in winter.
My decision would be based on how much hiking vs how much camping you'll be doing (I'm not familiar with Mt Sterling). If this is a hiking trip, stopping only to sleep, make the tarptent work. If it's a short hike in to a camping spot, bring the heavier tent and enjoy the comfort.
FamilyGuy
02-17-2009, 18:54
Tarp tents can blow over if not staked right. It's happened to me with my squall several times, but I'm better at setting the thing up.
So can freestanding Hilleberg mountain tents:D
Tipi Walter
02-18-2009, 08:23
How warm are your sleeping bags? Also, check the forecast the day you're ready to leave. We use Tarptents in cold, windy weather, but carry very warm sleeping bags, lots of food, some adult beverages, and warm clothes. (The astute mathematician would probably calculate that carrying a slightly heavier tent and less of all the other stuff would be a weight savings, but then we'd be stuck inside the tent if we wanted to be warm.) Siting the Tarptent is important. You can also block some of the wind by putting stuff against the mesh on the windward side.
Why use a shelter that must be babied? Just to save a few pounds? A good tent should obviate the need to "check the forecast" before heading out, or setting up a camp at a site that is favorable. Maybe you want to set up on an open winter bald in a blizzard? So, you let a piece of gear dictate your schedule?
Tarptents, almost by design, are pretty lousy at keeping wind out. It sounds like you have enough experience with it to know that, but maybe not in winter.
My decision would be based on how much hiking vs how much camping you'll be doing (I'm not familiar with Mt Sterling). If this is a hiking trip, stopping only to sleep, make the tarptent work. If it's a short hike in to a camping spot, bring the heavier tent and enjoy the comfort.
If these flimsy things are pretty lousy at keeping out wind, what good are they?? I don't believe the "camping vs hiking" mantra is valid, as everybody camps, period. Even if you hike 12 hours, you're still gonna be setting up a camp thru the night. And if you're using an inadequate shelter thru the night in a high wind or blowing snow, then what? So you hike all day and do the miles and then struggle thru the night with poor wind protection, colder interior temps and blowing snow? Just to save a few extra pounds?
So can freestanding Hilleberg mountain tents:D
Say what? I would like you to supply a personal example of your Hilleberg tent blowing over. I had my Hillebergs in many rough conditions, one time bent a tent pole and another time got slapped around considerably, but I never had one blow over. Your statement to me sounds like an endorsement of a clearly inferior shelter(Tarptent)as compared to beefier four season tents. I imagine it was expressed because of the weight advantages of the Tarptent and for no other reason.
Frick Frack
02-18-2009, 08:32
Going winter hiking in the Smokies next week and spending a night on Mt. Sterling. Will a Tarptent Rainshadow 2 (or similar model) keep enough wind out? I'm trying to decide between the TT and a heavier 2-wall SwissGear tent to carry. And my wife will def appreciate a warmer tent.
Hello flemdawg I remember Mt Sterling being pretty protected from the wind but I would take the heavier, warmer tent because it is only for 1 night (right?). When I go out for weekend trips I take everything but the kitchen sink. Hope you have a great trip trip!
shelterbuilder
02-18-2009, 08:37
I'd take the warmer tent for the wife :)
I agree. It's been said: "If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy"!
I use a tarp for most of my 3-season camping (oversized and very versatile), but in the winter, it's always nice to have a good, solid shelter to retreat into. That's not to say that a tarp - properly pitched - can't provide good, solid shelter. But the tent won't require any thought - just pitch it and you're home. In my mind, the comfort factor more than outweighs the weight savings. YMMV.
I agree. It's been said: "If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy"!
Ill third this sentiment :D
garlic08
02-18-2009, 09:28
Why use a shelter that must be babied? Just to save a few pounds?
...So you hike all day and do the miles and then struggle thru the night with poor wind protection, colder interior temps and blowing snow? Just to save a few extra pounds?
... I imagine it was expressed because of the weight advantages of the Tarptent and for no other reason.
Yes, yes, and YES! You get it!
Please realize that other hikers have different reasons to be outside, different physical attributes, different comfort levels.
Sounds to me like a case of lightweight philosophy overloading common sense. Take the heavier tent. You'll be glad you did.
skinewmexico
02-18-2009, 10:01
I'm always fond of using the right tool for the job at hand.
flemdawg1
02-18-2009, 11:22
Thanks for all the responses!
Tipi Walter
02-18-2009, 14:17
Sounds to me like a case of lightweight philosophy overloading common sense. Take the heavier tent. You'll be glad you did.
Praise Buddha! "Lightweight philosophy overloading common sense." Amen.
I'm always fond of using the right tool for the job at hand.
The job at hand can change quickly. You may go to the roof with a hammer and need a saw. Let's say you go out for 30 days, how could you possibly know what's coming?
Montana AT05
02-18-2009, 14:35
I'd suggest the heavier tent. It doesn't sounds like you are out for weeks or months--so take what will best for both you and your wife. If Sterling is exposed (I don't know) then take a double wall, fully staked tent.
I can say this despite being an advocate of light weight packing. I don't understand the hostility of the more traditional gear people (boots, tents, 6 lb packs...). To each his own. Experimenting can be fun.
Oh, well, except that one time in college...I was, well, I was really drunk and don't we all...no no no...wait, that never happened! What was I saying!? :o
Have a fun trip, Enjoy the Smokies and the tent!
I can say this despite being an advocate of light weight packing. I don't understand the hostility of the more traditional gear people (boots, tents, 6 lb packs...). To each his own. Experimenting can be fun.
IMHO, the "hostility" usually comes from the lightweight crowd, who jump on any post that hints of gear being heavier than theirs. Boots over trail runners, tent over tarp, 40 lb pack vs 15.
HYOH.
I don't know the Swissgear tent U R considering. I'm not sure whether we R considering a true mountaineering style tent. All tents R going to keep more wind out and experience increased stability in high winds when properly anchored and guyed out. And this could affect the warmth of a tent. Even if U say U R considering a warmer tent I wonder how much warmer it really is! How is warmth being determined?And, warmth inside a tent isn't just determined by the tent, but by how, when, and where the tent is used! U might also consider that it may not just be a wind or warmth issue, but that U R also winter camping, which may bring other factors into play. IMO, when U R winter camping, w/ the sweety, especially for only a night or two, function takes precedence over wt.
Why use a shelter that must be babied? Just to save a few pounds? A good tent should obviate the need to "check the forecast" before heading out, or setting up a camp at a site that is favorable. Maybe you want to set up on an open winter bald in a blizzard? So, you let a piece of gear dictate your schedule?
Because it is lighter and makes for more comfortable walking. Because we can lay there in it and see out through the mesh. Because the morning light gradually infuses the interior through the translucent shell. Because when I sleep outside I am not trying to recreate the experience of being in an aluminum-and-fabric building, but am wanting to have as little barrier between myself and the outside world as I can get away with.
Sorry if it annoys you for anyone to have a difference of opinion, but I do.
flemdawg1
02-18-2009, 16:04
I don't know the Swissgear tent U R considering. I'm not sure whether we R considering a true mountaineering style tent. All tents R going to keep more wind out and experience increased stability in high winds when properly anchored and guyed out. And this could affect the warmth of a tent. Even if U say U R considering a warmer tent I wonder how much warmer it really is! How is warmth being determined?And, warmth inside a tent isn't just determined by the tent, but by how, when, and where the tent is used! U might also consider that it may not just be a wind or warmth issue, but that U R also winter camping, which may bring other factors into play. IMO, when U R winter camping, w/ the sweety, especially for only a night or two, function takes precedence over wt.
http://innovativeelectronics.net/SwissHiker2.jpg
Here's the Swissgear tent, I've use it several times hiking in windy areas, but in summer, fully shutup, it can get quite muggy. and the trip is just 2-nights. It'll work fine.
Ramble~On
02-18-2009, 16:14
Whoa ! Hold the Horses there pilgrims.
The man asked a question and a good question at that.
I'd say take the heavier tent - there will be two of you and if the wife isn't happy on this trip it just might be her last. There's going to be condensation with two of you using any tent and yes, you'll likely be "warmer" in a heavier tent. I don't know a thing about Swissgear - there I can't say. The tent should be there to keep you dry and will provide a level of protection from the wind - it's winter and night time temps on Sterling will be down there.
I just used a TT Rainbow the past few nights in some frigid temps and I've used a TT on a bald, in the wind and in snow...I'm still here and the TT is a gem (:-? maybe why they are so popular and so many folks are saying such good things about them) Maybe it's me ! I have experience with TT's in winter and with heavier, beefier four season tents.
Different strokes for different folks - different tents for different usage.
- If I'm doing 20 miles in 10 days - that's pretty much a camping trip and if I'm gonna spend 10 days out camping..I'd probably want a camping tent.
If I'm doing 20 miles in one or two days - I'd wouldn't think about a heavy tent. I happen to love my TT Rainbow and I use it year round.
I love my heavier tents too and they have their place...but what works for me might be hell on earth for you so I'm not preaching that anyone do as I do.
flemdawg1 I'll admit that I have no experience with the Rainshadow 2 and can't answer your question about it in wind. Others, it seems would have you think thay have experience with this tent - I doubt this!
I have experience with tarptents in the wind (you did mention "or similar model") and didn't experience anything blowing around inside my tent as I have heard other posters claim to have happen inisde their heavier four season tents.
I have had the TT collapse once in a strong gust - I wasn't using my trekking poles as support - after using the poles, no worries in the wind. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=22702&catid=member&imageuser=2785
If you feel your wife will enjoy the double wall tent more than the tarptent, go with your gut..
Enjoy your time out.
Ah, I'm blinded. Looks like a spaceship! I hear bears R attracted to orange. Don't tell that to your wife! Only kidding. Yeah, from just the pic it looks like a heavier made and warmer mountaineering or 4 season styled tent typical of many European made tents. If U were going out for an extended hike where wt. of a tent mattered more or it wasn't in the middle of winter where U R going and/or U were by yourself I would say take a lighter tent. Doesn't mean the Tarptent wouldn't work for U and the wife under the right conditions either. This is hard for me to say considering I'm an ULer. But, there is a time and place for nearly everything, including hauling a heavier tent. Tell the wife she has the awesome responsibilty of ensuring the safety of the tent and let her carry it! As she is warm and cozy inside the spaceship and snuggling up closer to U give her a big kiss for me!
If you are going to be doing some winter camping on a regular basis, take a look at the Black Diamond Firstlight. Four season, 2.5 lbs. just got one, but won't be able to try it out before my start in GA 3/4.
Tipi Walter
02-18-2009, 18:50
Because it is lighter and makes for more comfortable walking. Because we can lay there in it and see out through the mesh. Because the morning light gradually infuses the interior through the translucent shell. Because when I sleep outside I am not trying to recreate the experience of being in an aluminum-and-fabric building, but am wanting to have as little barrier between myself and the outside world as I can get away with.
Sorry if it annoys you for anyone to have a difference of opinion, but I do.
I'm not really annoyed, just wondering how you deal with harsh conditions.
Whoa ! Hold the Horses there pilgrims.
The man asked a question and a good question at that.
I'd say take the heavier tent - there will be two of you and if the wife isn't happy on this trip it just might be her last. There's going to be condensation with two of you using any tent and yes, you'll likely be "warmer" in a heavier tent. I don't know a thing about Swissgear - there I can't say. The tent should be there to keep you dry and will provide a level of protection from the wind - it's winter and night time temps on Sterling will be down there.
I just used a TT Rainbow the past few nights in some frigid temps and I've used a TT on a bald, in the wind and in snow...I'm still here and the TT is a gem (:-? maybe why they are so popular and so many folks are saying such good things about them) Maybe it's me ! I have experience with TT's in winter and with heavier, beefier four season tents.
Different strokes for different folks - different tents for different usage.
- If I'm doing 20 miles in 10 days - that's pretty much a camping trip and if I'm gonna spend 10 days out camping..I'd probably want a camping tent.
If I'm doing 20 miles in one or two days - I'd wouldn't think about a heavy tent. I happen to love my TT Rainbow and I use it year round.
I love my heavier tents too and they have their place...but what works for me might be hell on earth for you so I'm not preaching that anyone do as I do.
flemdawg1 I'll admit that I have no experience with the Rainshadow 2 and can't answer your question about it in wind. Others, it seems would have you think thay have experience with this tent - I doubt this!
I have experience with tarptents in the wind (you did mention "or similar model") and didn't experience anything blowing around inside my tent as I have heard other posters claim to have happen inisde their heavier four season tents.
I have had the TT collapse once in a strong gust - I wasn't using my trekking poles as support - after using the poles, no worries in the wind. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=22702&catid=member&imageuser=2785
If you feel your wife will enjoy the double wall tent more than the tarptent, go with your gut..
Enjoy your time out.
This good post brings up a real dilemma: Long term tent testing in tough conditions. The problem is, few tents can be tested for long periods of time in extreme conditions. When I get a tent, I use it repeatedly in a wide variety of places and conditions, and after the thing is worn out after 3 or 4 years, all I can really talk about is THAT tent under THOSE conditions. Then I'm off to the next. To give the Tarptent a true test, I would have to take it out on dozens of trips atop high open balds during blizzards and windstorms, and then I could speak clearly about the thing. This goes for every tent out there.
The thing is, many people use a tent they swear by which hasn't been tested in prolonged outings, and so they give a short review w/o in-depth experience as to the strengths/weaknesses of the thing. Sadly, a lifetime is too short to test all the tents we would like to try, and so we'll never really know how they do. I know about 6 tents intimately and have been thru epic blowouts with these 6, and will freely point out their bad points with their good.
BTW, I think AT thru-hikers know their tents as well as anyone, and can clearly point out their good and bad qualities w/o reserve.
brooklynkayak
02-18-2009, 19:48
If you are only going to own one tent, my vote is always for lighter with more ventilation and use a warmer sleeping bag in the winter.
Depending on where you hike, wind blowing through a tent is usually welcome.
I don't own a tarptent, but I don't like so called warm tents. A warm tent to me means a lack of air to breath if there isn't a wind.
hopefulhiker
02-18-2009, 19:52
Do you still have to have a permit to camp in the Smokies.. and are you still required to sleep in the shelters? If you are going to have to sleep in the shelters anyway, then why carry a heavy tent?
flemdawg1
02-19-2009, 10:04
Do you still have to have a permit to camp in the Smokies.. and are you still required to sleep in the shelters? If you are going to have to sleep in the shelters anyway, then why carry a heavy tent?
Staying at 2 backcountry tent-sites, not on AT.
Well one night I camped in a field's edge in KY. I have a tarptent Virga ( don't know if those are made anymore.) We staked up the tent very tight and low to the ground, and then hunkered down through the most scary 4 hour thunderstorm I've ever tented through in my life. I set my pack up in the vestibule to kind of block the wind (my pack is an osprey and has a frame.)
The tent did great! I was really scared that it would blow over or something, since I hadn't used that tent in conditions like that, and the fact that we weren't exactily protected in the field (long story why we camped there, I know it's stupid to camp in a field w/an impending storm) contributed to my fears.
Me & my stuff stayed like 98% dry, the tent did great, and the next morning me & my SO were no worse for the wear.
I don't know. I've camped in cold, windy conditions w/the tarptent and it has always done fine. But I carry a warm sleeping bag and a set of clothes that are always kept dry. If it's cold just stake it lower. If not, stake higher.
I believe that the top of Mt Sterling is a bit protected, since the summit has trees, I didn't camp there but walked through (on a snowy Oct. morning no less.)
Tarptents, almost by design, are pretty lousy at keeping wind out. It sounds like you have enough experience with it to know that, but maybe not in winter.
Tarptents, by design, are supposed to let the wind flow through them. That is how you keep the condensation down. If you're hiking in extreme cold temperatures, don't take a tarptent, or take very warm bags and clothing.
garlic08
02-19-2009, 12:20
Tarptents, by design, are supposed to let the wind flow through them. That is how you keep the condensation down. If you're hiking in extreme cold temperatures, don't take a tarptent, or take very warm bags and clothing.
Exactly, with one exception that I know of. The reason I said "almost by design" in my earlier post is that my new Contrail, unlike my old Virga and Squall, can be pitched very low with the adjustable rear struts, the rear vent closed up, and the vestibule door all the way to the ground so that only the peak vent is left open. It's like sleeping in a plastic bag (or a regular tent) so I don't do it, but it's possible.
Exactly, with one exception that I know of. The reason I said "almost by design" in my earlier post is that my new Contrail, unlike my old Virga and Squall, can be pitched very low with the adjustable rear struts, the rear vent closed up, and the vestibule door all the way to the ground so that only the peak vent is left open. It's like sleeping in a plastic bag (or a regular tent) so I don't do it, but it's possible.
I imagine that would come in real handy if the bugs get really bad, or a storm was really blowing.
Ramble~On
02-19-2009, 13:18
The Rainbow when pitched with trekking poles as vertical supports under the vents does fine in high winds and the mesh around the bottom can be covered by pack, clothes etc. I haven't had a problem with wind except for when I pitched it exposed and didn't use the poles for added support..
For a single pole, 30 something ounce tent - I couldn't be happier.
I like to camp on exposed ridges, balds and in snow. I have a North Face Mountain 25 that laughs at the worst of conditions and has a ton of usable space for one person..it weighs over 9 pounds!
I realize that there are folks who scoff at the UL crowd and the equipment that they carry..but I remember at the end of the story SAM I AM liked green eggs and ham after trying them.
There's a saying that I like. I think Sgt. Rock posted it on here years ago.
"The more I carry, the more I like camping - The less I carry, the more I like hiking"
The tent, tarp or hammock that I throw in my pack depends a lot on what kind of trip I'm going on - hiking trips and camping trips are two different things to me. The weather isn't a factor but the season is.
HIKE :sun
FamilyGuy
07-17-2009, 00:37
Say what? I would like you to supply a personal example of your Hilleberg tent blowing over. I had my Hillebergs in many rough conditions, one time bent a tent pole and another time got slapped around considerably, but I never had one blow over. Your statement to me sounds like an endorsement of a clearly inferior shelter(Tarptent)as compared to beefier four season tents. I imagine it was expressed because of the weight advantages of the Tarptent and for no other reason.
The comment was in response if the tent was NOT STAKED DOWN. Read before you spew please.