I can't seem to see what people like about alcohol stoves. I've got 3 alcohol stoves...a basic fancy feast, a pepsi can, and a pressurized pepsi can. The pressurized one I purchased from someone just in case I was the faulty link in the chain.

The problem is that every talks about the alcohol stove being efficient and it will boil 2 cups of water. I can't achieve these results even inside using a windscreen and pot stand. The most I've gotten out of it is a total 7 minutes burn time on 1 ounce of Heet and 2 cups of water only get up to about 190 degrees.

Is the whole alcohol stove thing a big conspiracy against the canister manufacturers or am I missing something?

Ahh...you've made the discovery that not all alcohol stoves are alike:D! Was the stove you purchased a top burner or side burner? If it was a side burner you should not use a stand, as your cookpot is part of what causes the stove to pressurize. A stand in that instance will only serve to waste fuel. A properly designed pop can stove should be able to get 16 ounces of water to boil. Are you using the HEET in the yellow bottle? The red bottle is worthless.

There is a learning curve to alcohol stoves. To be good with them you have to mess around with them in different conditions. I have been taking one with me for a year now as a second stove.I also carry a pocket rocket. It has given me a chance to experiment with different stoves in different conditions and I always had a back up.
I like to make them, I like to burn them. I am still not sold 100 percent on them.

if you would buy a trangia you would find it is bullet proof.fuel is the easyist to find

They are slow and i don't really see that big of a difference in boil time between the hi-tech and a simple one.

The advantage is: Lightweight stove. Fuel is about the same weight if you are going for more than 3 days though. Fuel is more readily available everywhere. (for instance, here in Asia, unless you are in the Himalayas, it's very hard to find the canisters for my pocket rocket)

Disadvantages are of course speed, lacks simmering capabilities, and you have to be careful you don't waste, drink, let evaporate, or spill the fuel.

Hard to beat a pocket rocket if you can have easy access to the fuel, and are out for more than a day or two.

Pot size has a lot to do on boil to small and tall takes longer a bigger pot and shorter with cover faster.On a big pot say 5 or 6 in. o. d. make sure the is not much top air space just below from the top with out boiling over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JeqZuopLW8&feature=channel_page

I definitely like my pocket rocket, it's a jet engine when you want guaranteed heat. I think my pot may have something to do with it as well. I built a billy can based on design at woodsmonkey.com (http://woodsmonkey.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55:how-to-make-a-billy-can&catid=41:how-to-articles&Itemid=63) so I could use it over a campfire or on top of a stove.

When it comes to an alcohol stove, I think I found the can's limitation.

Pot size has a lot to do on boil to small and tall takes longer a bigger pot and shorter with cover faster.On a big pot say 5 or 6 in. o. d. make sure the is not much top air space just below from the top with out boiling over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JeqZuopLW8&feature=channel_page


Well the Jetboil pot is small and tall, and is very fast to boil 2 cups of water (and the pot is only half full in this case). That seems to go against your comment oops. I wonder if anyone has ever made an alky stove with a flux ring at the bottom of the pot like the Jetboil has.

I can't seem to see what people like about alcohol stoves. I've got 3 alcohol stoves...a basic fancy feast, a pepsi can, and a pressurized pepsi can. The pressurized one I purchased from someone just in case I was the faulty link in the chain.

The problem is that every talks about the alcohol stove being efficient and it will boil 2 cups of water. I can't achieve these results even inside using a windscreen and pot stand. The most I've gotten out of it is a total 7 minutes burn time on 1 ounce of Heet and 2 cups of water only get up to about 190 degrees.

Is the whole alcohol stove thing a big conspiracy against the canister manufacturers or am I missing something?

What do you use for a windscreen?

I've been using aluminum flashing with slits punched in it as a windscreen. For the pressurized can stove, I've also had aluminum foil underneath to prime the stove. That should also help to radiate the heat upwards.

Well the Jetboil pot is small and tall, and is very fast to boil 2 cups of water (and the pot is only half full in this case). That seems to go against your comment oops. I wonder if anyone has ever made an alky stove with a flux ring at the bottom of the pot like the Jetboil has.

I thought we talking about alcohol stoves not canisters type

I used a Jetboil which used roughly 1/4 the feul compared to a white gas Simmerlite. I think alchohol is comparable to a white gas stove as far as feul consumption.

Now I use a grease pot and woodfire with an alchohol backup for fire restricted areas.

i use my jetboil atm, but make alchy stoves if not for the fact that its just f'n cool. If you are gonna buy one, buy a commercially produced one. otherwise spend some free time with a razorblade and scissors and impress yourself. :sun

I only use a stove to heat water, don't do any real cooking, so no need for simmer capability. I love my little alky stove and won't trade it for anything. I tried making a few of these stove, but couldn't get it right. I bought one through http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Thru-Hikers-Closet-and-More__W0QQ_armrsZ1. It's a great stove. Boils 1 cup very cold water in ~3 1/2 mins. I never timed it, but 2 cups is about twice that. I use a wide alum pot (5 1/4 dia).

One thing I don't understand is the comments on speed of heating. I agree that alky stoves heat slower than others, but we're only talking a couple-few minutes. I guess I like the slower pace of things when I'm outdoors, heck that's one of the reasons I'm out there in the first place.

(disclaimer: I have no relationship or vested interest in the ebay store link listed)

if you would buy a trangia you would find it is bullet proof.fuel is the easyist to find
I'm unimpressed with my Trangia so far. Picked one up at Neels and it took 11 min to boil 2 cups. Now this was uncovered since I had a thermometer in the pot but I tried it covered and made it to 7 min before giving up. I still need to play with it some more but so far it's done little to impress me.

I'm unimpressed with my Trangia so far. Picked one up at Neels and it took 11 min to boil 2 cups. Now this was uncovered since I had a thermometer in the pot but I tried it covered and made it to 7 min before giving up. I still need to play with it some more but so far it's done little to impress me.

Try this get your house kettle put 2 cups water in it put on your house stove.If its gas turn down flame like the trangia if elec. turn down to med. now time that.

I can't seem to see what people like about alcohol stoves. I've got 3 alcohol stoves...a basic fancy feast, a pepsi can, and a pressurized pepsi can. The pressurized one I purchased from someone just in case I was the faulty link in the chain.

The problem is that every talks about the alcohol stove being efficient and it will boil 2 cups of water. I can't achieve these results even inside using a windscreen and pot stand. The most I've gotten out of it is a total 7 minutes burn time on 1 ounce of Heet and 2 cups of water only get up to about 190 degrees.

Is the whole alcohol stove thing a big conspiracy against the canister manufacturers or am I missing something?
People often embellish, whether it's negative or positive, they over/under state their opinion. Just another reason to be skeptical of what you read. People unintentionally lie all the time.

I used the penny alcohol stove (http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html) and can attest that it boils 2 cups of water very quickly, 3-4 minutes. I also have an MSR Whisperlite for short camping, but the alcohol stove is great because it weighs nothing and the fuel is easy to find. I actually carry 2 stoves in case I step on one! One hint, I put some silicone windshield sealer around the seam to help it pressurize, made a big difference.

It is a little finicky to start in the cold, which is why you'll always need a 2nd stove for consistent cold weather performance.

Matt

I really like my Trangia burner. I use it with a windscreen made from aluminum flashing. Water heats reasonably quickly with a cover on the pot. I've never timed it, though. Maybe you need to fiddle around with the height of the pot stand above the top of the burner. I find 1 in. to 1-1/2 in. works well.

alky stoves aren't for everyone if you like a canister better then use the cansiter... play around have fun...

It sounds like a fuel problem to me.
As stated above the red bottle of HEET is worthelss.
The yellow bottle HEET will burn pretty good.
Denatured alcohol from the hardware store is even better.
I just discovered that Everclear does even better (at least it seems to) AND you can drink it.

The only time I have had trouble with my alchy stoves is when my beer can pot sprung an unseen leak below water line & kept diluting my fuel. Took 2 days to figure that out, & someone had to point out the leak to me. Till then I had crunchy / cool dinners for 2 nights. :p

I'd also like to put a plug in for ethyl rubbing alcohol as a fuel. It is better than methanol HEET but not as good as denatured alcohol (at 95%). However, all I've seen is a slow down in boil times, not a requirement for more fuel.

And ethyl rubbing alcohol doubles as post-potty hand sanitizer.

Spotted this at BPL yesterday.
The main problem is the confusion about the term "alcohol" a bit like talking about how good a beer is without knowing which one we are talking about.
(apparently some over there even think that Foster is a beer)
Rubbing alcohol in particular is misleading because it can be 97-100% Ethanhol (in Europe mostly) or 60-90% Isopropanol (US definition )
Not that accurate, but the brief version is : ethanol burns the hottest, then Methanol. Forget about Isopropanol.
The higher the concentration of the above the better (hotter/quicker) it will burn.
Franco

..(apparently some over there even think that Foster is a beer)...
I'm just glad we were able to offload that crappy Budweiser on someone else (http://www.thegreatguinnesstoast.com/):D

... I can't achieve these results even inside using a windscreen...

Closing windows helps. ;)

Try this get your house kettle put 2 cups water in it put on your house stove.If its gas turn down flame like the trangia if elec. turn down to med. now time that.
Very good idea and it never even crossed my mind. I just finished making a pot stand tonight but I realized too late it's just barely enough to hold my pot securely. I need to recut the pieces and make it a little longer. I'll try my Trek 900 on the stove tonight and see how that compares with the Trangia.

I've been using Heet (gas line antifreeze in the yellow bottle). How does Heet compare to denatured alcohol or are they both ethanol (I know denatured alcohol is)?

Today, I've trying experimenting. I've think I found a problem lies in my pot. It's stainless steel and narrow (a little wider than a nalgene). I went out and got a K-mart grease pot. It does much better. I'm guessing because it's 1) aluminum instead of steel 2)thinner metal and 3) a wider bottom for better heat absorption and provides a better seal on top of the stove.

I've been using Heet (gas line antifreeze in the yellow bottle). How does Heet compare to denatured alcohol or are they both ethanol (I know denatured alcohol is)?



HEET is methanol, it has lower BTU's than ethanol but also a lower vaporization point.

Denatured Alcohol is mostly ethanol (usually around 90-95%) and then the denaturing agent is typically methanol.

My first alcohol stove is a Triangia. I got the Westwind setup. Light. Works realy good. Bottom line? I now have a system that works great and I'm not going to invest any more money.

the higher you are the the longer it will take for any stove to boil. last fall i hike the JMT it took twice as long for my water to boil than it did during any eastern hikes

"the higher you are the the longer it will take for any stove to boil"
yes and no.
Water boils at a lower temperature at higher altitudes. So, the higher you go the faster it will boil. However it isn't going to cook your food any faster because it isn't as hot...
It just happens that , usually, the higher you go the colder it is, therefore you will need more fuel to do the same job.
Pressurised alcohol stove in particular will take longer to "bloom".
Franco

Yea, denatured is mostly ethanol, the "drinking alcohol" But since the stuff you can drink is heavily taxed in the US, they "ruin it" with wood alcohol.
Ethanol: easy(er) & cheap(er) to make, Heavily taxed.
Methanol: Hard / expensive to make, Poison to drink, but not taxed.
Add just a little bit of Methanol to Ethanol, & it too is highly toxic*, but is NOT taxed because of the Methanol content.

It's all about the $$$

Besides, Methanol tastes AWFUL! :eek:



*I know, Ethanol is toxic, but in a “good” way. :p

My first alcohol stove is a Triangia. I got the Westwind setup. Light. Works realy good. Bottom line? I now have a system that works great and I'm not going to invest any more money.

yep

the higher you are the the longer it will take for any stove to boil. last fall i hike the JMT it took twice as long for my water to boil than it did during any eastern hikes

Agreed. Cooking while high can also be a safety hazard.

I've built several alky stoves: Pepsi can, Heinecken, SuperCat...and experimented with others. SuperCat is the best performer, easiest to make...but, I have to use a wide pot for it to be efficient, which is a bummer for small pack size when I go solo.

Also have a Trangia, which is bombproof. I use it as a 2nd stove when cmping with friends and we are cooking feasts. The rest of the time it is in my 72-hour "Go-bag."

All that being said, I migrated back to my SnowPeak Gigapower stove with a SnowPeak Titanium Solo-Mini cookset for the summer, and my JetBoil PCS for the winter 3-5 day trips. I just like the convenience, and not worrying about the wind.

If I was thru-hiking, I'd go with alky for ease of finding fuel from April-September, and use a cannister stove in early srping and fall.

Well, I threw my pot on the kitchen stove last night and tried to boil 2 cups. I guess since the eye is larger then the pot I didn't get good heat transfer. Total time to boil was 19:52:21. I couldn't believe it took so long. Now granted, that was cold to boil. Not sure how much of that was actually the eye getting hot. Still very eye opening. Now the 7:48 for my Trangia doesn't seem so bad.

The alcohol stoves I make boil a pint of water in less than five minutes on less then an once of denatured alcohol. The key is to your match wind screen and pot stand with you pot. Since this picture was taken I have modified the way the legs are attached. Part of the attachment people have with alcohol stoves are that they can make them. If is fun to use gear that you make.

http://www.trailgallery.com/photos/5236/tj5236_022409_111213_419517.jpg

Damn. I'm going to have to experiment some more. Less than 5 min for a pint ain't bad at all.

I use the basic stove design with 23 holes. I make the holes with a push pin. I found that the more holes you make the hotter the stove burns but you lose most of the heat. Also the distance between your stove and your pot needs to be adjusted for the size of your pot. If you get the pot to close you lose to much heat around the sides of the pot.

JaxHiker
Well, I threw my pot on the kitchen stove last night and tried to boil 2 cups. I guess since the eye is larger then the pot I didn't get good heat transfer. Total time to boil was 19:52:21. I couldn't believe it took so long. Now granted, that was cold to boil. Not sure how much of that was actually the eye getting hot. Still very eye opening. Now the 7:48 for my Trangia doesn't seem so bad.
When i was experimenting with my stoves I also did that and realised why a watched kettle never boils....
(BTW a good demonstration of the difference between what we think happens and what really does happen.)

Yes the size of the pot and the one from your stove should be matched. But the stove test shows that a lot of alcohol burners are pretty efficient compared to home cooking.
Franco

Another thing, it helps to keep the lid on when boiling. This speeds the process up a little.

I get a kick out making cat stoves, soda can stoves, beer can stoves etc. etc. My wife is less then thrilled with my hobby! So anyway I've used homemade beer can stoves (burning denatured alcohol) for a couple of years now and have been happy with the performance. I've tinkered a lot with can types, hole sizes, pot stands, pots and wind screens. I've found that whatever stove you make they need to be matched with the correct width pot, correct height pot stand and correct diameter wind screen. I must say though I've not been as successful using the "simmer" feature of homemade stoves. The Brasslite Turbo II simmer beats the heck out of anything I've been able to come up with but the Turbo II does weight over 3 ounces.

By chance I came across Sgt Rock's website where he was experimenting with the small 5.5 oz V-8 juice cans. So of course I had to give it a shot. I've made about 9 of them so far and I haven't been able to improve on his performance but I'm thrilled none the less. Sgt Rock calls it the Ion stove and the little sucker weighs 1/4 of an ounce and burns for 12 minutes on 10 ml (1/3 oz) of denatured alcohol! Now my stove, pot stand, heat reflector and wind screen all together wieghs .98 oz! I've cooked several backpacking meals in the house with great success; I'd have to keep an eye on the meal because the absence of a simmer feature could lead to a partially burnt meal. Caveat: my backpack meal follows the techniques advocated by Mary holmes in her cook book "Feasting in the Wild Country"; essentially homemade dehydrated single pot meals that need mostly hot water, some simmering and a pot cozy. I'm looking forward to trying out my copy of the Ion stove on the trail soon.

If anyone is looking for instruction on how to make an alcohol stove in less than 3 minutes, Smallworldtreks.net just created a great instructional video on it's homepage. Here's the link. http://www.smallworldtreks.net

No sense in buying when you can make it yourself.

If anyone is looking for instruction on how to make an alcohol stove in less than 3 minutes, Smallworldtreks.net just created a great instructional video on it's homepage. Here's the link. http://www.smallworldtreks.net

No sense in buying when you can make it yourself.

Wow, very simple indeed. How much fuel does it take to fill to those bottom holes?

Roughly 1 oz. That's 12 fills which will last most everyone until they hit their resupply point. Very very efficient.