View Full Version : Butter and Oil
After hearing about LW, it made me start to think. I've heard plenty of times on here to eat butter raw or drink olive oil. Is this such a good idea? Sure they are packed full of calories, but it could be blocking something else up. I've never done this, but, I've never been out for months at a time either. What do you all think?
I think if you are overweight, its bad, but if you are underweight, its good. Bascially, as long as you are burning it, its ok to eat it.
I figure over the past 20 years I've consumed at least 2500 pounds of fat.
Out of all that, only about 50 pounds was excessive. lol
always hike with olive oil.ky
McKeever
03-02-2009, 17:10
I think thru hikers that are chowing down butter are trying to keep from burning up muscle tissue due to drastic weight loss so the animal fat in this case may not be as harmful unless you smoke and have allot of sugar in your blood. Before he hit his head, Dr. Adkins preached that it's the sugars in your blood that make the plaque stick. Olive oil raises the good cholesterol so other than being expensive it's a great food choice. I think most diets get blown after the first few towns when allot of hikers get limited to what you can find in the trail side store. I wonder how bad the peanut butter recall will will hurt thur hikers this year. When in doubt just remember the 4 hiker food groups from a well known hiker:
1. Alcohol
2. Tobacco
3. Caffeine
4. Herb
Olive oil is useful stuff for many things. You can use it to help start fires, or give your hobo stove a little kicker when things are cold and damp. It can be used with beeswax or earwax for chapped skin and lips. You can make an oil lamp, or a slow burning for steeping soup or tea.
As emergency food goes however, I think honey is better, as there is more danger in running low of glycogen than fatty acids, but if I ever get back down to 10% body fat I would bring both.
For keeping warm in winter, I think all food is good, but there does seem to be something said for fatty foods, and also meat protien. When sleeping at night our bodies put out 20% more heat if we are digesting food, but it would be interesting to see if different diets make a difference in night-time heat production. I understand some foods like vegetables take more energy to digest, but that is more a matter of efficiency than gross heat production.
Canola oil is just as good for you, and just as good for fuel, but doesn't taste as good.
walkin' wally
03-02-2009, 17:47
Why not have a blood lipid panel done by your doctor to see where your risk level is?:)
Slender people can have heart problems too. I mean with cholesterol and triglycerides. You cannot directly exercise away cholesterol. It's like having toothpaste in your blood. A person needs proper HDL and LDL levels or maybe just good genetics to do that.( which I don't have) I fight this all the time and I am not overweight and I consider myself a fairly good hiker for my age.
That's a good point walkin' wally. I was oversimplifying things. Some fats have inherent risks for many people. Carbs have inherent risks also. Keeping the waistline in check is a good indication. Hiking is the best way to do that. Besides being a great way to reduce weight, the exercise itself must help keep clean things out also I should think, but there are always details we need to consider. I'm at that age I should probably think about getting stuff checked, if only to find out what risks I might be more predisposed to. In my case I'm more worried about diabetes, but who knows? Whatever it is I want to get me weight down before I hit 50.
I think if you are overweight, its bad, but if you are underweight, its good. Bascially, as long as you are burning it, its ok to eat it.
I figure over the past 20 years I've consumed at least 2500 pounds of fat.
Out of all that, only about 50 pounds was excessive. lolI thought this was rather funny though. If only I had eaten 1% less calories over all those years. lol
warraghiyagey
03-02-2009, 18:34
Butter and oil?? Break out the naked Twister. . . :) Wooooot!!
blackbird04217
03-02-2009, 19:12
Does butter stay well for 4-7 days in a pack; obviously some sort of hard container since it will be softer than if it was in the fridge...
fiddlehead
03-02-2009, 19:55
I used to have an awesome container for butter but lost it.
It was a nalgene with a good solid screw on top, round and held a stick of butter if you cut it in half.
Depending on the weather, butter will keep a long time.
After hearing about LW, it made me start to think. I've heard plenty of times on here to eat butter raw or drink olive oil. Is this such a good idea? Sure they are packed full of calories, but it could be blocking something else up. I've never done this, but, I've never been out for months at a time either. What do you all think?
If this thread is strictly about heart health, my guess would be butter, = bad, olive oil = good.
Tipi Walter
03-02-2009, 20:46
Butter is one of the few trail foods that doesn't pack well in the summer and goes bad fairly fast. It's hard to find a container for it that won't leak. I take out olive oil instead but in a small glass soy sauce bottle, it's the only thing that won't leak. In the winter the oil is solid and must be thawed. I use little 8 oz white capped nalgene bottles for nut butters/mayo/and jelly but even these leak a bit. The worst is honey, esp in the summer. I don't think there's a container made that won't leak honey.
blackbird04217
03-02-2009, 22:54
My plan with butter is mainly for my Mac & Cheese, I don't use milk with it which makes it thicker, the only thing needed is boiling water, sure it takes a bit of time to make but its not a worry, and I can always change diet as needed but I figured good old mac and cheese, packed up in a good sized ziplock bag and the only trash required then would be the cheese packets. I plan on using a wood stove that runs on small twigs, so cooking time won't waste fuel, although butter was one thing I needed for this to work. Tried already making it without milk and butter, and there is something that the oils do to the cheese powder to make it work in butter or milk, but not pure water.
I guess I will just have to experiment with that and see if the olive oil will work, will be interesting anyways. My butter in the fridge says refrigeration is optional. And I have heard both that it will last just fine, even in summer and that it won't last long at all. I assume once it gets to a completely liquid state that the butter is then useless, and will go bad quickly. Maybe this will just be my diet at the start and end of the trip where it is a little cooler.
theinfamousj
03-02-2009, 23:45
I always thought that (in moderation) olive oil and avocados (another great source of fats) were good. Of course, I heard that in my vegetarian nutrition learnings, rather than about hiking. And you wouldn't want to intake more fats than you can burn.
I, for one, can chug 1/4 cup of olive oil in the shoulder seasons/winter if I wake up cold. I find that it kick starts my metabolism and I quickly produce enough heat to warm up my bag and can go back to sleep. It tastes yucky, but it works.
So far so good, health wise.
Olive oil is great and we used "butter buds" because it was so hot. They kept well and were a great butter substitute for butter or margerine in meals.
Carbs are good. I tried one of those protein only things for a couple of weeks a fewyears ago. I got a on a long distance bicycle ride and almost fell asleep and over in a ditch. Done with that.
take-a-knee
03-03-2009, 08:23
Olive oil is great and we used "butter buds" because it was so hot. They kept well and were a great butter substitute for butter or margerine in meals.
Carbs are good. I tried one of those protein only things for a couple of weeks a fewyears ago. I got a on a long distance bicycle ride and almost fell asleep and over in a ditch. Done with that.
The ideal carbohydrate/protein ratio is 4/3, that is four grams of carbs and 3 of protein, every meal. This prevents insulin spikes and elevates glucagon. This is the reccomendation of Phd biochemist Barry Sears, promoter of the Zone diet. That is basically a 30/30/40(carbs) diet.
The atkins thing will work fine for couch potatoes but you found it's limitation the hard way, though healthy people can do just fine on protein and fat alone, it may be hard on your kidneys. "Induction" takes 3 weeks or so I've read, I've never tried it myself. If you want to read more about it google Inuit Paradox.
Avoid margerine like the plague, or anything else with the words "partially hydrogenated" in the label if you desire to stay out of ICU. The earlier poster is correct about arterial plaque being composed of a matrix of sugar. You body then applies the cholesterol on top of the "sugar scaffold". Blaming cholesterol for arterial plaque is like blaming bandages for gunshot wounds.
desertrat
03-03-2009, 08:35
Have been trying different combinations and found the margarine packets from the fast food work well instead of margarine and milk. With a 3 oz pack of tuna or chicken you are set to go.
If this thread is strictly about heart health, my guess would be butter, = bad, olive oil = good.
After doing a bit of research, I've come to think:
Butter= not so bad
Olive oil= not so bad
Any refined carb/sugar or manufactured food-like substance= really bad
I'm basing this on the works of Eads, Taubes, Pollan, Sears and Cordain.
I could be wrong. I used to think grains were what our food ate, now that's not exactly right, either. But that opens up the whole EFA-ratio debate....
TWS
wrongway_08
03-03-2009, 13:40
always hike with olive oil.ky
Was wondering why you wanted him to bring KY with him also..... reading your other post it dawned on me, you sign all your messages like this.
I never liked the taste of olive oil but i see alot of hikers drink it for the calories - tried but never could get past the taste of it.
take-a-knee
03-03-2009, 14:13
After doing a bit of research, I've come to think:
Butter= not so bad
Olive oil= not so bad
Any refined carb/sugar or manufactured food-like substance= really bad
I'm basing this on the works of Eads, Taubes, Pollan, Sears and Cordain.
I could be wrong. I used to think grains were what our food ate, now that's not exactly right, either. But that opens up the whole EFA-ratio debate....
TWS
Who are Eads and Pollan? I know the other guys' work.
IMO, a little butter isn't so bad, but it is high in saturated fat, whereas olive oil is all healthy monosaturated fat.
Who are Eads and Pollan? I know the other guys' work.
http://www.michaelpollan.com/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/rapid-health-improvements-with-a-paleolithic-diet/
I've been reading quite a bit on nutrition and have found almost everything I once thought of as 'healthy' probably isn't.
TWS
take-a-knee
03-03-2009, 17:50
http://www.michaelpollan.com/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/rapid-health-improvements-with-a-paleolithic-diet/
I've been reading quite a bit on nutrition and have found almost everything I once thought of as 'healthy' probably isn't.
TWS
Many thanks, you may also have heard of this guy:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/environmental-damage/
His experience early in life as a marathoner/triathelete (he' 55 now if IRC) dovetails exactly with Ead's comparison of the musculature of paleolithic man and neolithic man.
With proper marketing, we will pay more to have cheap low grade food processed into even unhealthier food, and then overconsume it, and then pay more to correct the problems.
Instead we could just eat good food, but we've forgotten what it is, and have to make **** up and sell books on the subject.
McKeever
03-03-2009, 19:10
How about dipping whole grain bread in $100/oz olive oil. That's expensive enough to be healthy. What's the best olive oil in the world and what makes it so expensive?
How about dipping whole grain bread in $100/oz olive oil. That's expensive enough to be healthy. What's the best olive oil in the world and what makes it so expensive?
It's a matter of debate. Some of the very finest organic EVO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) comes from Italy or Spain. Extra Virgin means it is made only by mechanical means (press) and is pure olive oil or "juice". The high dollar stuff can be had for $50.00 to $80.00 a pint. The reason it is so costly is that it comes from very, very old trees that were bred and selected over generations.
EVO has compounds that reduces LDL cholesterol and increases levels of HDL cholesterol. LDL = BAD, HDL = GOOD.
Butter has saturated fats that will clog your art's. Butter = Bad.
Vagrant Squirrel
03-03-2009, 21:56
When in doubt just remember the 4 hiker food groups from a well known hiker:
1. Alcohol
2. Tobacco
3. Caffeine
4. Herb
Sounds like my kind of hiker. Though, having enough of 4 to last from GA to ME would add a few pounds to my pack weight and significantly exceed my budget. :banana
take-a-knee
03-03-2009, 22:15
Sounds like my kind of hiker. Though, having enough of 4 to last from GA to ME would add a few pounds to my pack weight and significantly exceed my budget. :banana
You forgot porn for your ipod.
Vagrant Squirrel
03-03-2009, 22:36
You forgot porn for your ipod.
I prefer to let my stunning good looks and my devil-may-care attitude charm their way into the hearts of young and naive trail town girls. Besides, my ipod only plays music. :cool:
Honestly, women are the furthest from my mind on this trip in any capacity. I'd be much happier with an ample supply of the aforementioned food groups, minus the tobacco, because I'm trying to quit. :)
Thanks Take-a-Knee. I enjoyed your post. The one thing my three week protein diet did was get me permanently off soda pop. I was a Mountain-Dew drinker for years. Now I can't stand it, so it did get me off alot of sugar and white bread.
Old Hickory MH
03-03-2009, 22:49
I have been hiking since my open heart surgery, so I can tell you my results using butter and olive oil. My sons and I went for a one week hike from Waynesboro to Front Royal. We ate greasy food at the waysides and used olive oil when cooking at the shelters. Results of my blood work one week later were that my HDl was higher then what they aim for, my LDL was lower then what they aim for and my total cholesterol count went thru the floor. My doctor actually wanted to know what I had been doing to get it so low. Most things that happen to us have a simple reason behind them, eat too much and don't excersise, you most likely will gain weight and a pouch. Have a predisposition thru genetics and you just are unlucky. My dietician said it best after my surgery, if you do what we say you might live longer, but you'll probably be miserable so use moderation and common sense. And most of all enjoy life while you can.
Old Hickory Mh
EVO has compounds that reduces LDL cholesterol and increases levels of HDL cholesterol. LDL = BAD, HDL = GOOD.
Butter has saturated fats that will clog your art's. Butter = Bad.
Taubes et. al. think otherwise:
In other words, despite decades of research, it is still a debatable proposition whether the consumption of saturated fats above recommended levels by anyone who's not already at high risk of heart disease will increase the likelihood of untimely death. Nor have hundreds of millions of dollars in trials managed to generate compelling evidence that healthy individuals can extend their lives by more than a few weeks, if that, by eating less fat http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/taubes.html <--link to Taubes article
As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:
1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/NewYearNewYou/Story?id=3654291&page=1
(Taubes excerpt at ABC News)
It's much different than the stuff I learned in High School Health class. Agri-business and the food pyramid people have made us not well.
TWS
take-a-knee
03-03-2009, 23:19
I prefer to let my stunning good looks and my devil-may-care attitude charm their way into the hearts of young and naive trail town girls. Besides, my ipod only plays music. :cool:
Honestly, women are the furthest from my mind on this trip in any capacity. I'd be much happier with an ample supply of the aforementioned food groups, minus the tobacco, because I'm trying to quit. :)
That's a great first step, good luck.
take-a-knee
03-03-2009, 23:26
Thanks Take-a-Knee. I enjoyed your post. The one thing my three week protein diet did was get me permanently off soda pop. I was a Mountain-Dew drinker for years. Now I can't stand it, so it did get me off alot of sugar and white bread.
This will help you stay off the Dew:
http://nerdparadise.com/science/chemistry/didyouknow/mountaindew/
Cutting out sugar and white bread is a HUGE positive step, if you've had your triglycerides checked in the past I'll bet they are much lower now.
garlic08
03-03-2009, 23:36
It was good to see the Michael Pollan reference above. His books have also changed the way I think about modern nutrition science.
It was also good to see the post about moderation. I hiked the PCT with a very fit hiker who chugged olive oil for a few months, then went home and had a heart attack, aged 40.
The healthy cultures who consume olive oil do not use very much of it at all, I've heard. This is not a case of more = better.
Fiddleback
03-05-2009, 11:25
Does butter stay well for 4-7 days in a pack; obviously some sort of hard container since it will be softer than if it was in the fridge...
Butter is one of the few trail foods that doesn't pack well in the summer and goes bad fairly fast.
I never refrigerate opened packages of butter. Neither did my grandparents (my parents didn't use butter). Many, many others treat their butter the same way. Although it takes my household about a month to go through an eight ounce tub of whipped butter it never spoils/turns rancid (there's some thought that salted butter keeps longer than unsalted). My point being...butter can and does last a long time. The keys are to keep it clean from cross contamination (dirty utensils, dirty hands, etc.), keep it sealed (not lying around open to the air and bugs) and, keep it as cool as possible (not lying in the sun). A tub of whipped butter just might be right for the trail (haven't tried it myself)...the tub is purpose built and convenient and the tub of the brand I use is also water tight which would allow one to immerse it in cool water...
For a couple bucks you can buy a tub of butter and do your own backyard longevity experiment.
FB
My aunt uses this to keep butter fresh and at room temp. Not that this item is packable, but the idea behind it may be something to work on:
http://www.amazon.com/Norpro-284-Butter-Keeper/dp/B0000VLURQ
TWS
<edit> says it keeps fresh for 30 days
dinking olive oil seems pretty gross to me, i dont think i could even do that!
take-a-knee
03-05-2009, 22:58
dinking olive oil seems pretty gross to me, i dont think i could even do that!
You don't need to drink it, just cook with it.
i think a lot of trail food is very bad for your heart. sure you burn the calories off, but that crap sticks to the arteries. just being active and burning a lot of calories doesn't keep them clean. a person doesn't have to be fat or out of shape to have a heart attack
Billygoatbritt
03-07-2009, 18:11
I agree that many hikers use butter and oil for the calorie count. Everything within reason and moderation should be OK.
Moderation with the theory of you only live once ....
Exercise is the answer to eating like a slob.
I love it, and may regret it ... but i've watched older friends come and go in a blink of an eye from things not related to what they'd eat.
Heathly people, just mention a simple thing to a doctor ... simple test ... 3 months left to live. My only regret then would be i didn't take along enough olive oil or butter to make my backcountry food taste as good as it could ....
Point is, See your doctor ... Exercise "Hiking/mountain biking/cycling" ... Go buy yourself a tony little ... "you can do eeeeet!" ... And eat what you want, just like billyg said ... in moderation!