Silly down bag cleaning guidelines.

[Earl Grey]

So most down soaps say you can wash your bag in your tub, which is cool. They then go on to say in order to dry it you should put it in a large commercial dryer, but who has one of those in their house where they just washed it in a tub?! Do they want you to take it to a laundromat afterwards? Why not just say machine wash it in a big front loader?:-?

[UnkaJesse]

Air dry it. It will take days. Keep flipping it over and don't hang it up. Keep it flat. If you get a sunny day, take it outside.

[Earl Grey]

Air dry it. It will take days. Keep flipping it over and don't hang it up. Keep it flat. If you get a sunny day, take it outside.

None of them say to do that though.

[BlackRock]

I work with and make down products darn near every day ;) Most down products whether a sleeping bag, jacket or hat are made up of the same stuff so care is essentially the same for all. You've got a synthetic shell, usually some type of nylon with a DWR coating and then of course your down.

The most important part of the product is the down itself. It's little hairs on each puff of down give you the insulation and warmth you want when using it and you can damage those, so only use a cleaner specifically made for down. It sounds like you've got some of the right cleaner already. I personally use either ReviveX or Nikwax down cleaner, both seem to be about the same.

As for cleaning, I use my home washer, which is a front loading washer. So either use your bathtub, a large sink or a front loading washer on delicate. Never use a top loading washer that has the agitator, that will tear seams and overall destroy your bag pretty fast.

Now for drying I use, again, my own home dryer. What you have to be careful of is not to melt the fabric of the bag, so... Just put the bag in and air fluff or whatever non-hot setting you have. Warm is fine but if you have a crummy dryer then you might want to find a friend with a nicer one. Add not only the bag, but a few tennis balls. They'll make a racket, but they'll break up clumps and help fluff the bag dry.

I usually pull my bag out mid cycle and hand break up clumps and flip the bag around. It usually takes my bag 2 full cycles on low heat to dry but when it's done each baffel should be much more full than before you washed it. If it isn't then you probably still need to dry it. Also make sure to get it totally dry, you don't want mold growing in your down!

[Earl Grey]

My dryer is a front loader but I dont think theres anyway to get it all in there without stuffing the thing in there.

[freefall]

I concur with the tennis balls. I dry mine in the drier on low with a couple of tennis balls and have no problems with my bag.

[Wags]

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Product%20Tips%20and%20Care

is what i follow (even though i don't own a WM bag). simply clean bag in tub, then put it into a garbage bag and drive to the laundrymat. i'm too afraid to ruin my bags in our household dryer

[shelterbuilder]

BlackRock has pretty much hit the nail on the head. But whether you wash and dry at home, or wash at home and dry at a laundrymat, make absolutely certain that, when you lift the bag to transfer it from the washing machine to the dryer, you lift it from underneath. Down gets HEAVY when it gets wet, and if you lift it from the top, the internal baffles can be very easily ripped out.

Washing in the tub always seemed like work to me, so I always take my bag to the laundrymat and use the front-loading washer and the BIG dryer. Tennis balls are good - but sneakers are noisier! :D

[The Solemates]

i dont wash down, and never will. never the same afterwards in my opinion.

same for raingear.

[saimyoji]

i dont wash down, and never will. never the same afterwards in my opinion.

same for raingear.

some raingear (eg. goretex) recommends (requires?) that you wash it to maintain waterproofness, softness, breathableness....

[BlackRock]

I was thinking of running a test on cleaning down and this thread has me interested in trying it.

Here is my plan, let me know what you think or if you have other ideas.

I'll sew two small pillows out of some downproof ripstop dwr coated fabric. Then I'll measure out the same amount of down for both and take pics. After that I'll run the bags through a number of tests. I can soak them in water, compress them for days and maybe roll them in the dirt. After more pics I'll clean each with a different product. Maybe use Nikwax or Revivex on one and simple detergent on the other, then dry and compare the loft and water repellency of the fabric.

I can then finish it by pulling the down out and see how it actually looks.

Good idea? Anyone interested? I just think Solemates is too worried about the down and I think I can prove it. After seasons of use on my bags they always do better after a good cleaning.

[Earl Grey]

I was thinking of running a test on cleaning down and this thread has me interested in trying it.

Here is my plan, let me know what you think or if you have other ideas.

I'll sew two small pillows out of some downproof ripstop dwr coated fabric. Then I'll measure out the same amount of down for both and take pics. After that I'll run the bags through a number of tests. I can soak them in water, compress them for days and maybe roll them in the dirt. After more pics I'll clean each with a different product. Maybe use Nikwax or Revivex on one and simple detergent on the other, then dry and compare the loft and water repellency of the fabric.

I can then finish it by pulling the down out and see how it actually looks.

Good idea? Anyone interested? I just think Solemates is too worried about the down and I think I can prove it. After seasons of use on my bags they always do better after a good cleaning.

That would be pretty cool actually. Make sure to use the same down for all 3 test subjects. You could even do something about drying in a machine or air drying too.

[BlackRock]

That would be pretty cool actually. Make sure to use the same down for all 3 test subjects. You could even do something about drying in a machine or air drying too.

I get down in fairly large batches already. It can change slightly from batch to batch but is usually pretty close. For the test I'd use down from the same batch for sure.

As for air drying, I can say the down stays clumped more unless you agitate it. It's the "loft" that gives you warmth, so the puffier you can get your down the warmer it will be. Air drying combined with fluffing it might produce similar results, but definitely something to check out.

[BlackRock]

I just started up a test. You can check it out in my thread here: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=804359#post804359

[Franco]

I have washed down bags in my bathtub and air dried them. Yes it does take days even in hot and or windy weather.to lift it out of the bath I put a sting hammock under it and lift and squeeze (gently...) . I cannot tell the difference (apart from smell and clean look of the fabric) between the before and after.
Franco

[Wags]

if you didn't read the WM link. they recommend you roll your bag gently in the tub to strain out excess water before lifting it

[big_muddy]

I would highly recommend washing by hand, the problem with machines is that they can rip the baffles, which are quite defecate. The ripped baffles would lead to utter ruin of the bag.

Oh, are you the Earl Gray who hiked in 2007, I hiked with an Earl Gray in New Hampshire.

[shelterbuilder]

I would highly recommend washing by hand, the problem with machines is that they can rip the baffles, which are quite defecate....

If your baffles are quite DEFECATE, that's always a good reason to wash the bag! :eek::D

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

[Earl Grey]

Yeah man its me. Whats happenin.

[The Solemates]

I was thinking of running a test on cleaning down and this thread has me interested in trying it.

Here is my plan, let me know what you think or if you have other ideas.

I'll sew two small pillows out of some downproof ripstop dwr coated fabric. Then I'll measure out the same amount of down for both and take pics. After that I'll run the bags through a number of tests. I can soak them in water, compress them for days and maybe roll them in the dirt. After more pics I'll clean each with a different product. Maybe use Nikwax or Revivex on one and simple detergent on the other, then dry and compare the loft and water repellency of the fabric.

I can then finish it by pulling the down out and see how it actually looks.

Good idea? Anyone interested? I just think Solemates is too worried about the down and I think I can prove it. After seasons of use on my bags they always do better after a good cleaning.

maybe so....I just know what works for me. my wife has washed her down jackets before and you are right....they do fine afterwards.

make sure you have a control in your experiment or it is worthless.

[BlackRock]

I think for my control, I'll just hold off on washing one of them until after I do the other two. Then I'll compare the items washed in Nikwax and ReviveX to that untouched but well used sample. After that I think I'll take the third control and wash it with regular detergent and see how well it works then.

So far they've been sitting outside for a few days. The water is still all beaded up on them but they do look a bit sad at this point. Then again it's been raining pretty much every day since I started and I'm amazed at how well they've held up.

[The Solemates]

my concern is mainly with the insulating factor after washing. i could care less how it looks....your experiment does not objectively address the insulation.

[BlackRock]

my concern is mainly with the insulating factor after washing.

Exactly, which is why I'm specifically testing for that. My test is broken into two different and completely separate parts. One part is to test the outer fabric, which you don't care about, and the second is to specifically test the down itself.

I've got hi-def pictures of the down before putting it in the pillows and measurements of the downs loft. After all is said and done I plan to measure loft again and actually pull the down out to inspect the clusters.

I'll pull the down out of my 'control' and compare against the washed down. If this isn't directly testing the insulating factor of the down, I'm not sure what other tests do.

I asked for ideas and would appreciate some help if you have any to offer. I do, however, think testing the outer shell is worth while too. DWR coatings get dirty and stop working, plain and simple. Washing them can renew their water resistance just like with down.

[The Solemates]

no advice. i didnt realize you were taking measurements....that obviously would help. do these measurements directly correlate to insulating ability? how will you keep test methodology consistent? we are such dorks..

[BlackRock]

Yep, measurements galore. Anything and everything I can think of. Each pillow was weighed out to be 1 gram. I measured out the down to a full cup and a half of down and then measured the loft of the pillows to be 15/16" in height.

I think the only thing I can really measure on the down though is it's loft both in the pillow and the original container I used to measure it. Other than measuring the loft I plan to do a detailed visual inspection of the down itself and while all this won't give us a temperature rating as to it's insulation abilities it should tell us whether there has been noticable degradation or not in the down.

Both of those tests should directly correlate to the insulating ability of the down. As for keeping things consistent, I just need to put all three test pillows through the same condition. I'm using the same fabric and down for all three test pieces, all three are being subjected to the same tests and all three will be cleaned in the same washer under the same settings. And yes, I am a dork when it comes to this stuff, but it's what I do :)