I know this will be an unconventional post given the fact that I'm a guy opening a thread on the "Female Hiking Forum" but I've recently encountered some changes in my daughter's hiking experience and I think I would really benefit from the female perspective this forum provides. Specifically, I would like to solicit some input from some of the ladies of WB (or Dads who have daughters who hike with them and would have something constructive to post). A special thanks to Cuffs for allowing me to use the female hiking forum for this purpose:

Let me start with a little background here. I'm a Dad who has a teenage daughter who just turned 16 years old. We have a great relationship, we can talk about anything and we even go backpacking together which is a bonus that many Dads don't have. We started backpacking together when she was 13 years old. I don't know how to better describe it other than to say that we really like hanging out together.

To be honest, there is much that I do not know about the female psyche and regrettably as my daughter has grown up this past year, I'm finding my "clueless Dad" moments to be more frequent. I do know adolescence can be a challenging time for young women. I have found that my daughter's reactions to her physical and emotional changes often depend on how she feels about herself. Fortunately, my daughter is rugged, self reliant, independent, yet refined (Kind of like a "pint-sized" Kanga with a dash of southern belle charm, and with a strong connection to her faith). What I have found in my observations is because of the strength of her self-esteem she has been less likely to engage in socially unacceptable behaviors that many of her counterparts have partaken in. While mistakes are made by all teenagers, her self confidence is such that she learns from her mistakes and adapts her behavior, rather than repeating the same mistake again.

Okay with the background behind us let me start with some basic questions that I would like to pose to the ladies of WB. If you don't feel comfortable answering the questions in a public forum please feel free to PM me....

General Information Request #1: As a female hiker, why did you start backpacking? Did you start backpacking when you were young, in your teen years, or was is something you picked up when you got older?

General Information Request #2: For those female hikers who were backpacking during their teen years, did you find your interest in this activity change during that time? What do you think were some of the reasons behind those changes?

General Information Request #3: Did you at any point during your teenage years lose interest in backpacking? How long did you stay away from this activity and how long was it before you eventually returned to this activity?

The last thing that I would like to run by the ladies of WB is a couple of situations that I have observed with my daughter as it relates to the trail. Please try to provide a "father friendly" translation if you can....

Situation #1: My daughter and I along with two of her teenage girlfriends and their fathers took a two day backpacking trip to the Carver's Gap area of the AT. On that trip, my daughter discovers that one of her friends has packed in a make-up bag, fingernail polish, makeup mirror, and a large number of accessories.

My daughter's response at 14 years old was to basically to say..."Girl what in the heck are you thinking?....we're in the middle of the wilderness! Why would you want to carry all that weight?... Who are you wanting to impress? The squirrels?"

My daughter's response at 16 years old is that she wants to take makeup on the trail with her.....

Situation #2: My daughter and I go on a multi-day backpacking trip to the Ridge Trail with a small group of teenagers (both guys and girls) and on one of the prolonged climbs up to the ridge, one of the teenage guys starts whining about how tired he is.......

My daughter's response at 14 years old was basically to say "Hey dude you're being a wuss, you need to stop laying around the house and playing video games so much, man up, and climb the mountain....."

My daughter's response at 16 years old essentially would that there would be no response because she doesn't want be around teenage guys on the trail at all....

Situation #3: On multi-day backpacking trips.....

My daughter's response at 14 years old was basically... "Cool, where are we going?... How many days do we get to be out?... Can I bring one of my friends?...."

My daughter's response at 16 years old is basically... "I would prefer to only do an overnight trip so I won't smell too bad when I get off the trail....."

I could provide numerous other examples but I'm trying to be as concise as possible.... I'm not overreacting here, nor am I upset with the changes that I'm seeing, and I'm being very careful not to put any undue pressure on her. I would also like to add that there no major problems here I just happen to be one of those Dads who is trying to get a better understanding of what is going on with his daughter...... Any thoughts (either via PM or on this thread) from the female hiking community would be greatly appreciated.

We started camping with my daughter when she was two; she took her first overnight backpacking trip to Cold Mountain in Virginia when she was four. At five, we went to Mt Rogers. Plenty of weekend hikes followed for the next six or seven years. We did two longer sections, when she was 12 and 13, but when she was 14, she ended a planned trip on the second day because she basically wouldn't hike.

She's almost 19. For the last few years, the best we've been able to do were short weekend or overnight hikes once or twice a year.

I really can't complain. She's just not that into backpacking now. She likes the outdoors, and she certainly has the skills and the gear, and I hope she'll come back to it someday, but I don't have any control over that.

So I don't know what to tell you except that it happened to me, too.

I'm a woman who didn't get into backpacking until I was in my 20s, so I'm not sure I can specifically answer your questions above. But I do remember the teenage-girl experience.

I think the "missing link" in all three of the situations that you describe above could be the changing expectations your daughter has for herself as a woman, perhaps based in part on what society expects of women. It's less socially acceptable for a woman to appear in public with less-than-flawless appearance (or smell!) than a man. Women also are more bothered by feeling "dirty" and unkept than men are... I don't know if that's biologically hard-wired, or a learned behavior, or both, but that's just how it is. In adolescence, it's especially bad to be a mess in front of a guy, so that could explain a lot about why she doesn't like hiking with guys any more. You mentioned "southern belle charm"... part of that whole paradigm is the assumption that men are more attracted to prissy helpless women than studly women who can hike circles around them!

Most people experience adolescence as a time of insecurity and self-discovery. For girls in particular, keeping up an impeccable outer appearance can be a sort of defense and security measure as they try to become more comfortable with the adult they're becoming. You may not be the right age and gender to fully understand, but I'd be willing to bet there was something comparable in your own teenage years that helped you in that way... atheltic or academic ability, etc.

I don't think it means that your daughter's "firm foundations" are slipping, particularly if she holds on to her faith. It's just that she's transforming from girl to woman and it can be a bit of a bumpy ride. It's anyone's guess whether, at the end, she'll again be comfortable five days down the trail with no bath or powder brush in sight. Some adult women are, and some aren't... it's a personal thing.

The best advice I can offer is to hike with her on her terms. If she wants to do an overnight, do an overnight. If she wants to bring makeup, let her bring it (no snide comments!). What's important is not the length of your trip or the weight of your pack, but the unconditional love and togetherness between the two of you. In another year or two she may well decide she's being "silly" and regain some of her former attitudes. Or she might indeed lose interest in hiking... but the relationship and memories you've built together will still be there, and there are plenty of other activities you can enjoy together. The main thing is not to take rejection of hiking as a rejection of YOU. Just keep letting her know how much you love her and keep communicating, and remind yourself that adolescence is a stage everyone goes through!

I should add... the childhood attitude about appearance is "It doesn't matter." The mature, self-confident woman's attitude is "Appearance does matter, but there's a time and place for everything, and having a poor appearance while hiking is not the end of the world." Part of maturity is being able to keep things in perspective, understanding their relative importance. The child's attitude may have the same outward result as the adult's, but the thought process is different. At 14, your daughter was still a child. Now she's outgrown that, and hasn't quite grown into the mature view, so she'll feel that conflict for a while yet.

Hey, Cowboy,

I think berninbush gave you great ideas and suggestions, and am not sure I have anything to add in that area.

I started car camping, then hiking with my dad when pretty young. I started backpacking when I went to summer camp, and that is something I never did with my dad. College and 5 years living in NYC took my attention to other things, but my dad and I started doing outings and day hikes together again when I was about 30.

So, three things, really. My dad and I (as the two of you) have the memories and the bonding from shared experience when I was young. My love of the outdoors and of walking and hiking are very much part of who I am, a part that gives me pleasure and that I really value - my dad was a catalyst to that. And with that shared experience/love of the outdoors, we had a common ground to enjoy when we began to get to know each other when I was an adult - I have memories from that past 20 years that only my dad and I share.

You've already given these experiences to your daughter, and as berninbush said, what will be will be, but whether you are able to continue backpacking with her, or renew the experience some years in the future, or not, you have this shared experience in your relationship, which is a real gift.

I don't know that I've offered any insight really, but your post resonated and I wanted to respond.

Interesting. I started backpacking at a very young age when I tagged behind my boy cousins into the woods near our house. They taught me to basically make a bedroll, and we all slept out at night. I started going on solo trips with their old canvas gear when I was about 16. For me, it was a way to run away without staying away. I hated being at home with my mother. More than 30 years later, and I still hate being with her. So that tells you that it was a horrible situation for me at home. I considered the trail an escape route. I was, and am, a very independent person with high self-esteem, and like your daughter, I think that kept me out of a lot of trouble as I never turned to my peers for validation. I didn't really lose interest in backpacking as I got older. Rather I took on other interests and didn't have a lot of time to devote to backpacking any longer. When I was 18, I took off for two weeks of wandering through SNP on my own. This was in 1980. I had a grand time, but yes, at that point I will tell you that I cleaned up every day in any water source that I could find. (I didn't know better back then!) I carried some basic make-up with me, as well. I knew that I'd meet some guys on the trails or at least at waysides or campgrounds, and the thought of looking like a filthy mess was mortifying. I will tell you that to this day, I still try to keep a decent appearance on the trail. I'll soon be hiking with a group of guys. I certainly don't try to be a beauty queen, but I do wash up every morning and evening. I carry sunblock and moisturizer so my skin doesn't wrinkle, and I try to keep my hair neat, no matter how dirty it gets. Part of it is just that it's comfortable to be clean. And, well, I like to look nice, if I can. I feel better when I do. That being said, if I'm hiking in day-after-day rain and turn into a muddy mess covered in bug bites with matted hair, I roll with that, too. It's no big deal. It won't keep me off the trail.

I'm sure I was more concerned about my personal appearance when I was younger. When I was 18, 19 and 20, I can think of a few times when I planned shorter trips because I didn't want to be bothered with being a mess. But, I also had boyfriends at home, social things going on, and college. That all competed for my time. Eventually, one particular guy caught my attention, and we married. He's not a hiker, so I took a 20-year break. Now that he and I are older and the kids are doing their own thing, I'm back to hiking. Maturity, independence, self-esteem, a solid and supportive relationship at home all play a part in my being able to go out on trail without my husband and once again enjoy something that I loved so much when I was younger.

I don't know if any of this provides insight into what your daughter is going through. It's just my experience. I do think that if your daughter has a genuine love for hiking, it'll always be part of her life. At this stage in her life, there's so much going on and so much that she wants to do. Let her set the pace. Shorter trips may appeal to her now so that she can fit in other activities in her life. She's more aware of her personal appearance, and that's part of the deal, too. She'll eventually learn to balance it all.

My dad and I went through a similar thing. I loved him very, very much and we were always close. While my dad and I didn't share an interest in hiking, we did share a love of baseball. We went to every game we could. He even invested in Phillies season tickets for a few years. (They were a great team in the late 70's!) We sat and listened to games on the radio, talked about baseball often, and just had so much fun sharing that. But by the time I was 18 or so, there was just so much going on in my life, so many more friends, so many more things that I wanted to do, that there just wasn't time for me to listen to each and every game with my dad. I know he was very disappointed when that happened. In fact, I canceled on so many games that he gave up those season tickets at the start of the 1980 season. Well, the Phillies won the World Series that year, and Dad always teased me about the bad timing involved in that. The irony was that I actually was at the last game of that series and saw the Phils win that night. But I was on a date with a guy I met at college! I probably broke my dad's heart a little bit since we weren't at that game together. But I'll tell you what. I parted company with my date as soon as I could and ran to the nearest phone to call my dad that night. I wanted to make that connection with him. It's one of my fondest memories.

My point is... if hiking is something that connects you and your daughter, you'll always have that connection. But she's growing and changing, and so this touch point will change for both of you. What it was at the beginning will always be special to the both of you.

My dad and I were extremely close and we hiked and camped together, so I hope I can offer a little insight.

I was a tomboy as a kid, I loved to hike and fish and generally be out in the woods or camping with my daddy whenever I could.

When I hit my teens, things changed a bit. I was wrapped up in my friends. I discovered boys. Hiking didn't hold the same appeal, and although my dad and I were still close. He tried several times to take me out and I balked.

When I got into college, it all came back to me. I begrudgingly went on a camping trip with my dad, and I loved it. After that, we went out as much as possible. Those were some of the best times I ever had with my dad.

I will also tell you that whether she picks back up on the wilderness thing later or not (I have a feeling she will), she is going to look back on those times she went out with you and really deeply cherish those memories, even if she may act like she's not having the best time at the time.

I'd say, keep encouraging her to come out with you, and take what you can get, even if it's just dayhikes or short overnighters. Eventually she will probably come around, and even if she doesn't, she's going to be glad later that she had those times with you.

:) Sugargrits

Enjoying this thread!:) As a dad of a 3 yr old who LOVES nature (& is so excited about an upcoming 1st family car camping trip w/ her), I sometimes ponder whether she'll one day experience backpacking w/ me. I'll tuck away the knowledge learned in this thread so that if she takes an interest in backpacking w/ dad one day, I can react accordingly to her questions, thoughts, & views.

I was a tomboy as a kid, I loved to hike and fish and generally be out in the woods or camping with my daddy whenever I could.

When I hit my teens, things changed a bit. I was wrapped up in my friends. I discovered boys. Hiking didn't hold the same appeal, and although my dad and I were still close. He tried several times to take me out and I balked.

Yup, that's where I'm at with my older two daughters. One of them has gone feminine to the point that camping won't happen. She's out of college now.

When I got into college, it all came back to me. I begrudgingly went on a camping trip with my dad, and I loved it. After that, we went out as much as possible. Those were some of the best times I ever had with my dad.

I'm trying to make this happen with my college aged daughter. Wish me luck ;->

I'd say, keep encouraging her to come out with you, and take what you can get, even if it's just dayhikes or short overnighters. Eventually she will probably come around, and even if she doesn't, she's going to be glad later that she had those times with you.

Thanks for encouraging us dads with this!

As someone who is still a teenager (for two months haha) and has done tons of multi-week trips with no showers, I can conclusively say I think the main problem is you are male. Nothing against you personally.

Let me say though that all the long trips I have been on have been through the all-female camp I went to. So take this with a grain of salt. It's kind of like the argument for why school shouldn't be co-ed. I'm not really the best person to answer as I don't wear makeup, but my fellow female campers who did pretty much universally agreed without men around we felt distanced from social norms and the bonding that comes with smelling horrible wouldn't be nearly the same if there were guys with us.

I definitely agree that it is something that starts with becoming an adolescent, although these days it's starting earlier and earlier.

If it's any consolation she'll outgrow it soon enough :)

MOWGLI on this site has done many hikes with his TA daughter, either search his posts or contact him I know he'll be very helpful.

I feel I need to reply to this as a woman in my 30's whom has been multinight backpacking since the 4th grade.....yep the 4th grade (my mom was nuts! lol)

I have done the majority of my BPing with the girl scouts and with women, and never with my own father but we did have a father or two go with us on occasion. I will say I think it was easier for us girls when it was all girls. There was a core group of us, in the same scout troop for up thru high school and ya know we went out at least every two months on the trail. it never let up, and some times we would go very last minute.

We did once go out with a boyscout troop - that didn't go as well, I think too much prading about and showing off.

we did get very comfortable with the two fathers who went regulalry but the conversation around meal times or after a long day was very very different.


As an adult - I will say that the point in time i hiked the least was in college mostly becasue I didn't have time. I also became very sensitive to Male hikers whom exhibit too much "testosterone" lol basically carrying anything and everything and hiking big miles - I avoid them ;) but doesn't sound like this is your issue.

The other thing that I remember being a HUGE deal as a teen was dealing with Aunt flow on the trail. OMG we agonized about this! and then as a Girl Scout leader myself I have had soo many discussions with the girls about this. its truly more of a challange when you already don't trust your body.



The other ladies gave you GREAT advice and I hope your daughter is just going thru a phase but will come back to backpacking!!

I hope I can provide some insight.

My dad took me on our first overnight hike before I could even walk. He carried me on top of all the stuff in his backpack. And we had trips like that almost every weekend spring thru fall throughout my childhood - he is an alpinist and had to go on very frequent rock climbing trips to keep in shape in develop various skills necessary for advanced alpinism.

So I remember my childhood as equal part living in a tent and regular city apartment. In truth, being in the tent part is much more vivid in my memory than the city part. Eventually, he started taking me on longer travels. When I was 8 years old, we spent two months in Siberia, where we hiked in the real wilderness. Since then and until I was about 15, we hiked exstensively, sometimes doing some pretty hard stuff. The two trips that were really significant include a month spent crossing over Caucusus Mountains (I was about 12) and two months in Pamir mountains.

By the time I was 16, living in a tent, far from any comforts of civilization was as natural (if not more) to me as living in the middle of a big city.

And then, rather abruptly, I lost touch with my own body. Everything became uncomfortable. I lost confidence in myself. Even one night out in the wilderness caused me great discomfort. Hiking became associated with all sorts of unpleasant physical experiences. And while I did not want to carry make up with me, I became sufficiently insecure about my looks to worry about appearance. A great deal of all this had to with that time of the month. At this point in my life, my body was still adapting to it and everything was rather unpredictable, and I certainly did not feel comfortable dealing with it while sharing a tent with my father. I also became extremely touchy and whiny at times and would lash out at my father if asked too many questions about my well-being. He was just trying to understand what was going on, but it drove me nuts and annoyed me out of my mind. In any case, in my mid-teens, I pretty much stopped going on overnight and longer hiking trips.

I can't say though that I came to dislike it, just had to take a break; my affinity with wilderness lay dormant for some years. Then, in my early 20s, I discovered AT and was hooked again. Now I dream about AT every night. It is my home. I love being there. And even though these days I hike without my dad, it is solely thanks to him that my return to hiking was so natural. I am very grateful to him for inculcating me with love for this lifestyle so early.

Bottom line: being a teenage girl is not easy. Trust your daughter. Even if her attitude to hiking changes on the surface, you've already taught her to love nature; it is part of her soul. This is not going to disappear. But for now, other things may engage her mind. When these years of physical and social adjustment are over and she feels settled in her mind and body, all the important stuff will come to the surface again.

And as other have said, don't push, don't make fun of her, and avoid asking too many questions that might cause her embarrassment.

I should also add that those hiking experiences with my father are among my most precious memories. I believe that the complete closeness and understanding that we share today was developed in those early years, when he read to me in the security of the tent lighted by a candle when outside rain and thunder raged with savage freedom of vast, wild mountains. I never felt safer.


happy trails,
t.

That was awesome.

I'm determined now to get as much hiking in with her now while I can. What happens after that is really more up to her. That's almost getting to be the case now at 9 1/2. Friends are increasingly important to her, but I think there is still some time if I don't waste it.

Sounds like your Dad's time was very well spent. Cheers.

Good thread regardless of weather you are hiking with a boy or girl. I hike with my 8 year old son now. I absolutley love the time we get to spend together while hiking. I do realize that someday he is probably going to choose his friends over dad. I am coming to realize that it's not about the miles and the bag night. Its about the time spent. Enjoy them even if it is a walk in the park or a week long trek on the trail.

Fabulous thread. With a 2 year old boy and a baby girl due Aug. 5th, I love reading this stuff. I have to say I was nervous about the girl. My wife didn't get why I was nervous. This thread put some reasons to my gut feeling...

Also decided that even though it's hard, I'm going to see if I can get my son use to a backpacking tent. Last year we tried 2 nights, but no one slept. We were fine car camping with a larger tent, but in a backpacking tent he just couldn't handle being so close to us. He's older now, but I'm still worried. We're going to give it a try Friday night in the backyard and we'll see what happens...

Gravity

Daughters are awesome. Can't imagine it any other way. If we ever have a 2nd child I would be just as happy with another as having one of each. The next 10 years are going to be bittersweet though. We are pretty open about stuff but I presume that will change. I'm still kinda sorta in the drivers seat, maybe, but I'm moving over fast.

I might want to get one really tough hike in with her this summer or next. We'll see.

Oh, I'm thrilled to have a daughter, but I am also more nervous about the long term relationship than I am with my son... This thread gave words to my fear...

G

I owe my hike in '07 to my dad - we trekked trails in the Catksills together when I was a teen (and Slide Mtn in knee deep snow), and we took trips as a family to Shenandoah where the dream was nurtured. It was the best times for me as a teen. I love my dad greatly and I respect him.

Don't be afraid to go out there with your girls. You never know what those times can bring and the dreams that will be cultivated. Girls aren't whimps and aren't all about showers, shampoo, and make-up either (I know - I have been taking teen girls on backpacking trips and they've done really well without all the extras of society) :)

I have a 9 year old son and an 11 year old daughter. They go out with me, but I'm not sure they love it like I do. Right now, they just love being with dad. My daughter is in the best shape and can hike circles around me and her brother, but she definitely complains the most and she goes positively red in the face when we cross paths with a boy scout troop. We've never done more than an overnight, but I'd like to do a multi-day with them (Of course, I've done multi days myself).