View Full Version : Cool Ultralight Ideas
I haven't seen a compilation of the different ways people go ultralight. Here are a few that come to mind.
Camp shoes - Insoles with shock cord tied to it.
Spoon - Drilled out the handle to save a few grams
All line in sleeping bags, sacks, packs etc... are replaced with lighter cord.
Feel free to add your ideas so we can all benefit.
ChinMusic
04-16-2009, 18:42
Camp shoes - loosen the laces on you trail runners = 0 grams
Ex-lax will lighten the load more than a few grams.....
skinewmexico
04-16-2009, 18:53
Not using stuff sacks will save a surprising amount of weight. So will cutting all the excess off straps on a pack.
Valentine
04-16-2009, 18:57
Use a Snow tent stake (1.5" x 6") as your potty trowel and as a additional tarp stake for windy conditions.
Found some plastic "figure nine" rope tighteners but of course knowing your knots eliminates them all together.
I also agree with loosing some weight before your trip.
Valentine
04-16-2009, 19:02
Found some of those disposable sunglasses you get at the eye dr's office, really light!
Leave the stove & pot home :eek:
The ground feces catching indentation can be created with the heal of your shoe or boot.
0 additional grams.
fiddlehead
04-16-2009, 21:14
Build fires to save fuel when you have the time
Aluminum spoon
mason string for all your rope needs
no trekking poles
no socks, no underwear
no sunglasses, sunscreen, bug repellent, or soap
no knife
instant coffee if any with styrofoam cup or drink right out of the pot.
instant mashed potatoes (lightweight power food)
Just some suggestions.
where can i get mason string? Haven't heard of it. How do you do no socks? Why an aluminum spoon instead of titanium or lexan? no knife....realllly.
builders supply or hardware
I wear two pairs to prevent blisters
light, less than titanium, doesn't break like lexan
really
Get someone else to carry your gear. Very light...
JaxHiker
04-16-2009, 23:11
where can i get mason string?
Home improvement store like Lowe's or Home Depot. Make sure you get the braided string. It's usually neon pink or green.
Hike naked, can't get lighter!
I got pencils from OfficeMax that don't have any paint on them. That's got to save something.:D
Panzer
Pokey2006
04-16-2009, 23:23
I haven't seen a compilation of the different ways people go ultralight. Here are a few that come to mind.
Camp shoes - Insoles with shock cord tied to it.
Spoon - Drilled out the handle to save a few grams
All line in sleeping bags, sacks, packs etc... are replaced with lighter cord.
Feel free to add your ideas so we can all benefit.
Just lose the camp shoes altogether.
Use a McFlurry's spoon from McDonald's. Already hollow, so no need to drill holes!
What lines? Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Ditch the campsoap, and you've saved the same amount of weight, if not more.
Another hiker recently turned me on to these new Colgate Wisp one-use mini-toothbrushes. I plan to try them out this weekend.
Another hiker recently turned me on to these new Colgate Wisp one-use mini-toothbrushes. I plan to try them out this weekend.
I so hope this is a joke... But if not, what do you do with a one use toothbrush when you’re finished using it once?
I'm no bleeding heart tree hugger, I mean, I drive a car, buy food that’s been shipped 2000 miles to be on my plate, proportionately higher energy costs(I do live in Canada), travel 100s if not 1000s of kms a year for concerts and hiking, but.... is it really a huge inconvenience to carry one single REUSABLE toothbrush???
Our planets resources are limited... If UL is your thing, go nuts, use your crotchless undies, and freezer bag backpacks... But I beg of you, take one for the team and find UL ways of using durable, REUSABLE gear for the sake of us all... Really, a little ironic that a hiker, someone who enjoys nature so much could take it so blatantly for granted all to save a gram.... WOW
Pokey2006
04-17-2009, 00:55
Dude, this thing is so tiny, I don't think it's going to be putting much of a drain on the landfills. Besides, I would think you could use them more than once. Why don't go check out what I'm talking about before freaking out.
www.colgatewisp.com (http://www.colgatewisp.com)
mkmangold
04-17-2009, 01:07
Found some of those disposable sunglasses you get at the eye dr's office, really light!
Absolutely! Talk to an opthalmologist about the sunglasses they hand out to patients after cataract surgery. 100% UV protective and very light. I got mine free just for asking. Tell the doc you need backup protection.
Also: a "Chico Bag" to carry extra stuff when needed but also makes a great hackysack. I'm trying to waterproof it to carry water but haven't succeeded yet.
For the Jetboil French coffee press, I ditched the screw-in multi-part handle/press, found a screw that screwed into the hole, and just press down with a tent stake.
Reflectix with squares cut out in the bottom to stake-down as a windscreen.
Balaclava. Nuff said.
For those of us that like to use wetwipes, how about dehydrating them prior to the hike?
For those of us that like to use wetwipes, how about dehydrating them prior to the hike?
The wife and I just tried this last month on a AT section. Just put them on a cookie cooling rack in the oven at its lowest temp and they dried right up.. Saved tons.
Just add a little water in camp and clean up..
I read this on a thread previously and when I go out for more than 3 days will be a must on my future trips.
...use your crotchless undies...
Crotchless undies...BRILLIANT! :banana(said with a Guinness in hand)
Dude, this thing is so tiny, I don't think it's going to be putting much of a drain on the landfills. Besides, I would think you could use them more than once. Why don't go check out what I'm talking about before freaking out.
www.colgatewisp.com (http://www.colgatewisp.com)
Ok so I just checked them out at your link, and it clearly says that they are "not recommended to be used more than once". So your going to carry a different tooth brush for each day of your trip? How is this a weight savings? You gotta pack out the used ones, so your not carrying less as the days pass... Where is the weight savings?
While we should all at least make an effort to reduce what we put into the landfill, the bigger issue is that these things are made of plastic. Plastic is not only a very toxic product to produce, poluting our environment, but it also is made with oil... We have soldier's dying oversea's right now for oil... If you feel saving a gram or two is worth more than our planets health and our soldier's life, then carry on!
I'm just asking that you think about each and every thing you buy and use in your day, everything ultimately is harvested from the resources of our planet, most things require a high level of refinement to make it a usable product. This results in increased polution which in turn puts more strain on the systems of our planet, not to mention higher energy costs... So before you buy something or toss something away, ask yourself, do I really need this? Can I multi use something I already have? How long will this last?
Most important, hiking is a hobby, it's not a necessity of life, so make your hobbies as low impact as possible because we already know that achieving the necessities of life is only a reality in wealthy country's like our own... Choose gear that will last longer than one trip or a few trips... Think durable, long lasting things that you can use for years to come... If what you have works, use it, don't replace it with the latest and greatest, until what you have no longer provides it's function...
It's really quite simple, "live simply so that others can simply live".
Ideas like this make me believe that UL really means Ultra Lazy!
SlowLightTrek
04-17-2009, 08:56
Pack cover made from polycro ground sheet. Ground cloth same stuff.
Camp shoes. 2 oz. http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901
1.8 oz. Sawyer inline filter. http://www.sawyeronline.com/SP121.htm
Sustainable hiking is getting to be far more important to me than ultralight hiking.
It usually doesn't weight much more, and quite often weighs less.
Chew on a green stick and brush with that.
Use chopsticks instead of spoon or spork.
Go Commando.
Dehydrate wet wipes? Thats a new one on me. I suspect their antibacterial properties are lost after that. How about using a bandanna and rinsing it out?
Two Tents
04-17-2009, 11:03
Stay home If you are that freaked out about humping a couple of OZ extra to be comfortable! Just kidding! I have drilled holes, cut straps,double duty anything i could, got the best-lightest I could and am still looking and learning how to shave more OZ's. I was carrying a newbys' ( A friend of mine) Tent once on the last day of a two week hike in Pa. and we met a group leaving the parking lot, talked a little and got a trail name---Two Tents
Pokey2006
04-17-2009, 11:04
Ok so I just checked them out at your link, and it clearly says that they are "not recommended to be used more than once". So your going to carry a different tooth brush for each day of your trip? How is this a weight savings? You gotta pack out the used ones, so your not carrying less as the days pass... Where is the weight savings?
While we should all at least make an effort to reduce what we put into the landfill, the bigger issue is that these things are made of plastic. Plastic is not only a very toxic product to produce, poluting our environment, but it also is made with oil... We have soldier's dying oversea's right now for oil... If you feel saving a gram or two is worth more than our planets health and our soldier's life, then carry on!
I'm just asking that you think about each and every thing you buy and use in your day, everything ultimately is harvested from the resources of our planet, most things require a high level of refinement to make it a usable product. This results in increased polution which in turn puts more strain on the systems of our planet, not to mention higher energy costs... So before you buy something or toss something away, ask yourself, do I really need this? Can I multi use something I already have? How long will this last?
Most important, hiking is a hobby, it's not a necessity of life, so make your hobbies as low impact as possible because we already know that achieving the necessities of life is only a reality in wealthy country's like our own... Choose gear that will last longer than one trip or a few trips... Think durable, long lasting things that you can use for years to come... If what you have works, use it, don't replace it with the latest and greatest, until what you have no longer provides it's function...
It's really quite simple, "live simply so that others can simply live".
Ideas like this make me believe that UL really means Ultra Lazy!
Hate to break it to you, but "regular" toothbrushes are made out of plastic, too.
The Heineken company doesn't recommend using their beer cans as cooking pots, but guess what? ULers do so anyway. What's to stop us from re-using their toothbrushes? And, guess what? That was the plan -- to reuse the things.
Meanwhile, you probably drive a big ole SUV and voted for W, and you're lecturing ME about saving soldier's lives???? Whatever.
You need to get a grip, dude. The OP was asking for ultralight ideas. You have one to add or not?
Pokey2006
04-17-2009, 11:06
Oh, sorry, you're from Canada. Guess you couldn't have voted for W. My bad.
NEPilgrim
04-17-2009, 11:14
Most important, hiking is a hobby, it's not a necessity of life, so make your hobbies as low impact as possible because we already know that achieving the necessities of life is only a reality in wealthy country's like our own... Choose gear that will last longer than one trip or a few trips... Think durable, long lasting things that you can use for years to come... If what you have works, use it, don't replace it with the latest and greatest, until what you have no longer provides it's function...
Daja, I agree. I think UL isn't just about saving a few grams, but about having durable, reusable equipment. This saves time & money in the long run.
If you want a cheap, UL & reusable toothbrush, you can't get any lighter than one of those vet brushes that you put on your finger. Sounds funny I know, but these are small & can be used over & over. Btw, I don't use one, just thought of it now, lol.
Dehydrate wet wipes? Thats a new one on me. I suspect their antibacterial properties are lost after that. How about using a bandanna and rinsing it out?
Haha, even if none of this info is of any use, at least it's entertaining!:p
Hate to break it to you, but "regular" toothbrushes are made out of plastic, too.
The Heineken company doesn't recommend using their beer cans as cooking pots, but guess what? ULers do so anyway. What's to stop us from re-using their toothbrushes? And, guess what? That was the plan -- to reuse the things.
Meanwhile, you probably drive a big ole SUV and voted for W, and you're lecturing ME about saving soldier's lives???? Whatever.
You need to get a grip, dude. The OP was asking for ultralight ideas. You have one to add or not?
Yes i'm aware that regular toothbrushes are plastic, which is why I use it until it is no longer effective before replacing... Many things in our world are harmful and wasteful, hell look at the packaging our food comes in... We buy plastic (made from oil) garbage bags to put our garbage in!?! We really are a pretty sad society.
Sorry to get all sacramonious on you... I just get frustrated at times with how disposable our culture is. Who works in an office where people regularly use styro and disposable coffee or water cooler cups, when we could all very easily have a reusable one. How many times have you been hiking and come to some trail magic and find they are serving there generous goods on disposable plates and such, when we all are carrying (or should be) reusable plates or bowls and utensils in our packs?
Yes I understand the principle of easy and convienenience but who wants to explain to their grandchildren that the reason their world suffers so much is because when we where young we wanted to take the easy way out... It's just a matter of having a longer vision than this trip, or this week or even this lifetime... We each do many many things in the run of a day that could collectively have a massive impact on the future of not just our species but the planet as a whole.
Avoid anything that is meant to be disposable, reuse or multi use anything and everything you can think of. But above all, use what you have until it is no longer useful... Don't replace things because there is a newer, lighter, better version available...
Again sorry for the rant, and no I have no UL suggestions as i'm not an ULer, but i'm always looking for new ways of doing things so carry on!
4eyedbuzzard
04-17-2009, 11:32
For the Jetboil French coffee press, I ditched the screw-in multi-part handle/press, found a screw that screwed into the hole, and just press down with a tent stake.
Ditch the screw rod to save a few grams of weight, but still carry a Jetboil...:-? I'm trying really hard to digest this logic :confused:
fiddlehead
04-17-2009, 11:34
where can i get mason string? Haven't heard of it. How do you do no socks? Why an aluminum spoon instead of titanium or lexan? no knife....realllly.
I get the mason string from a friend who is a union bricklayer. He gave me a whole roll of it but i put lines on my tarptent and they've been on there for about 8 years now. (never broke one)
No socks? Toughen up your feet by walking barefoot for a while and then put on some shoes. It stinks like hell but is actually comfortable and simpler. (Earl Schaeffer walked without socks)
Aluminum spoons are hard to find. I bought 100 of them in Bangkok one time and gave them out to my friends. I still have one or two left for myself.
They last longer than those plastic ones and i never saw titanium ones so don't know about that?
My buddy Pieps who i did a LOT of hiking with, didn't use a knife. He used his teeth to cut somethings and the handle no his (aluminum) spoon for things like bread and cheese.
I tried chopsticks but they are no lighter than my al. spoon really and once they get a little bent, are hard to use. (making your own out there is hard to find really straight wood)
For me, i ALWAYS am in search of something lighter than what i already have. I just stayed at a nice hotel this year and they had the giveaway toothbrush with tiny tube of toothpaste that is now in my backpack. I made a two-ended threaded jig to refill it from a big tube (the toothpaste)
But, that's the first thing i've found lighter in a long time as i've been on that never ending search for a long time. The Ginzu paring knife is hard to beat if you can still find one. (or just a single razor blade will work of course)
vargo titanium shepherds hook tent stakes are 8 grams a piece. I switched to 6 of these and saved 1.5 oz.
One set of clothing is sufficient, in layers, but at least 2 pairs of socks. Most days you should only be wearing a loose sweater, hiking shorts, undies and socks. The additional layers are mostly for colder weater, camp, wind and rain. Only the undies and socks need to be washed now and then. Sweater should stay clean enough with a good heavy rain now and then.
Two Tents
04-17-2009, 12:28
Cool! I will def. check out the titanium stakes! thanks jrnj5k.---Two Tents.
I use only 2 long and 2 short cords for my poncho/tarp, and no stakes, and just a handful of small nails just in case I need to improvise something or hang my candle lantern. My 6 nails weigh about the same as 2 8g titanium tent stakes. Mostly I tie to roots or branches or stuff laying about. This is easier in the woods though than in open areas. When hiking with my daughter we bring her small tent but never bother with any stakes.
I don't really think ultralight ideas are really cool unless they are also really cheap.
Chew on a green stick and brush with that.
Use chopsticks instead of spoon or spork.
Go Commando.
Dehydrate wet wipes? Thats a new one on me. I suspect their antibacterial properties are lost after that. How about using a bandanna and rinsing it out?These are my type of cool ideas.
There seems to be two schools of ultra-light...
ultra-cheap vs ultra-consumer
I'm proud to say I'm ultra-cheap.
Jolly Lama
04-17-2009, 12:40
Checkout www.backpackinglight (http://www.backpackinglight) it will change your UL life. :)
I tried the no sock idea one summer and it didn't work out to well. I think it can work with the right conditioning and footwear, but not most trail runners. Perhaps another good reason to try making leather moccassins. I would still always bring at least one pair of socks though. Also useful as a first aid item.
Jolly Lama
04-17-2009, 12:41
www.backpacinglight.com (http://www.backpacinglight.com) Oops.
lol
try www.backpackinglight.com
It's a good site, like this one, with alot of the same sort of ideas and people.
Some of the reference tables on gear that the site owner put together are pretty helpful.
lol
That's not the site I thought it was. I meant this one...
http://www.backpacking.net/
mkmangold
04-17-2009, 14:00
Ditch the screw rod to save a few grams of weight, but still carry a Jetboil...:-? I'm trying really hard to digest this logic :confused:
Reason: my oldest son carries the Jetboil. His preference and who am I to disagree? I carry the Starlyte alky or the WoodGaz stove or a Pocket Rocket, depending on duration of hike and location.
Anyone can disagree if they think it negates remving the screw as a cool idea.
For example, removing the springs from a couch before carrying them on a hike is not a cool idea. :)
I keed I keed.
I removed the base stand from my Kelly Kettle. Way cool idea. :D
JAK im dying trying to remember where that quote is from. Please tell me. Its on the tip of my brain.
Scratch that its Triumph The Insult Dog
Yeah that was it. I had forgetten myself. It's becoming fairly common language.
I think the expression will out live Triumph The Insult Dog.
Not sure I spelled it right either. lol
"But seriously, you've been a great audience ... for me to poop on!"
"But seriously, you've been a great audience ... for me to poop on!"
:D:D:D:D Thanks for lightening up the day....its really dragging out. The weekend is so close i can taste it
I know many people don't even use a ground cloth, but WalMart has 2mil "embossed" painters drop cloth in 8x12 for $3.80 or so. I cut a 50x88 inch piece for my Double Rainbow and it came to 4.2 ounces. About 2 ounces lighter than Tyvek in that size, and this stuff is pretty tough.
Someone mentioned doing away with stuff sacks as a weight saving measure, and after weighing mine I realized I could save around 9 ounces. But how the heck would I find anything?
I think I could remove all stuff sacks except the one my sleeping bag goes in. Also with a bag liner there really is no need for individual stuff sacks. Make your liner out of a garbage bag.
I know many people don't even use a ground cloth, but WalMart has 2mil "embossed" painters drop cloth in 8x12 for $3.80 or so. I cut a 50x88 inch piece for my Double Rainbow and it came to 4.2 ounces. About 2 ounces lighter than Tyvek in that size, and this stuff is pretty tough.
Someone mentioned doing away with stuff sacks as a weight saving measure, and after weighing mine I realized I could save around 9 ounces. But how the heck would I find anything?I have less stuff, but I find one big clear plastic ziploc type box useful for odd stuff. I can set it down on snow and see what's in it. I don't use a ground sheet just my blue foam pad under my bivy, which is under my poncho tarp if its raining. The plastic box is about 2.5"x5"x10" maybe but fits perfectly at the top of my JAM2 and makes the bluefoam pad that goes into my JAM2 first more rigid and rectangular shaped, with the lid fitting just over the blue foam so its nested. No little stuff sacs. Blue foam pad first, like a cylinder. Then sleeping bag inside of bivy, which keeps it dry. Then food bag, for which is a big light coloured nylon bag but doesn't have to be waterproof. Then loose extra clothing layers. Then the plastic box. Other loose stuff goes in the back pouch, or the side pouches, but I don't need alot of small stuff sacs in the main compartment. I would rather the back pouch be a stretchy mesh bag and fit my Kelly Kettle but I'm working on that.
FlyPaper
04-17-2009, 17:06
Reusable mouthwash...
Take 10ml of mouthwash, swish it in your mouth and spit it back into the container. Mouthwash such as Listerine will not lose it's cleansing properties after 20 or 30 uses.
Take what you need for your personal, comfort and safety levels. No more, no less. The rest are merely details.
For example, being a wus, I would never use the same mouthwash 20-30 times. :eek:
I have less stuff, but I find one big clear plastic ziploc type box useful for odd stuff. I can set it down on snow and see what's in it. I don't use a ground sheet just my blue foam pad under my bivy, which is under my poncho tarp if its raining. The plastic box is about 2.5"x5"x10" maybe but fits perfectly at the top of my JAM2 and makes the bluefoam pad that goes into my JAM2 first more rigid and rectangular shaped, with the lid fitting just over the blue foam so its nested. No little stuff sacs. Blue foam pad first, like a cylinder. Then sleeping bag inside of bivy, which keeps it dry. Then food bag, for which is a big light coloured nylon bag but doesn't have to be waterproof. Then loose extra clothing layers. Then the plastic box. Other loose stuff goes in the back pouch, or the side pouches, but I don't need alot of small stuff sacs in the main compartment. I would rather the back pouch be a stretchy mesh bag and fit my Kelly Kettle but I'm working on that.
You've given me some ideas to work on. My old Gregory internal had a few pockets and a lid, so I had many options I don't have with the Vapor Trail. I'm sitting next to my gear right now looking at ways to organize with less stuff sacks. I'm betting I can cut 4 ounces anyway.:D
A rule I like is to organize stuff into no more than 6-7 piles, but you don't need a separate container for each pile of stuff, as simple piles will often do. Some piles of small stuff or tender stuff needs a container, but some stuff like extra clothing layers, don't. Some clothing layers like extra layers for cold weather can go in with the sleeping bag until needed. Mitts I like to keep in my hiking shorts front cargo pockets. Wool Hat and Neck Tube often just stash down into my sweater when not needed. A front pouch in a half zip hoody is ideal for hat and mitts, and a lighter.
A good way to add some volume and convenience and organization to a simple ultralight backpack is some sort of a front bag integrated onto the front straps, or at least two waterbottle holsters. Then you can use the back side pouches for something else. They are often too awkward to reach back to for water bottles. I carry my hatchet in one in winter.
A one pound hatchet doesn't sound ultralight in winter, but its partly for insurance against an extreme cold snap, and saves me from buying and carrying a one pound heavier and $200 more expensive sleeping bag for the remote possibility of -20F. If I ever had to make a better shelter and keep a big fire going at -20F, my small hatchet would do nicely until I can afford a better sleeping bag. Its also handier than a -20F bag for above 0F, though no more neccessary.
I shouldn't have to justify my 1 pound hatchet really, because everything else is light and simple enough I have plenty of room for it. Even if I just hammer one small nail with it on a winter trip its nice to have. Also easier and safer to work with in the cold than my small knife, when gathering and making small bits of fuel for my Kelly Kettle or hobbo stove. Its nice not to have to take my mitts off. Big Bic is better than a Mini Bic in winter also, but a Mini Bic is still ok as a spare.
Cedar Tree
04-17-2009, 18:33
Use a McFlurry's spoon from McDonald's. Already hollow, so no need to drill holes!
The McFlurry spoon is good. Long and fairly sturdy for a "free" plastic spoon.
Plus, being hollow makes it dual use. I've used one on a very slow flowing rocky spring to make a little pipe to catch water.
CT
I like a 100wt fleece as an extra layer for extreme cold for over my wool sweater, rather than under. It will also serve better than a wind shell as a snow and wind layer as it will allow the sweater to breath better and dry out. I still carry a wind or rain shell, and fleece layer and skin layer, but 50% of the time it is just the sweater when moving, and perhaps another 30% with just one layer extra, either skin layer or over-fleece or wind shell. Hat and mitts come and go easy to regulate temperature. Legs are usually just shorts, even in winter on warm days when active, but either skin layer or fleece layer get used in winter alot also, and in camp or on cold days rest of year.
Clothing layers weigh about 1oz for every degF below 85F, using the coldest temperature possible for that month of the year. That is overkill on most trips but I figure you may as well be prepared should the weather forecast be wrong, and its nice not to be overly dependant on you shelter and sleeping bag. For summer we can get frost in some places any day of the year, but in practice along the coast even with such extremes you can always find a spot halfway up a hill that would not get frost, so 37F is a reasonable low for summer, which would call for 3 pounds of clothing layers, not counting shoes and shells. I know in practice I can easily get away with 2 pounds in summer, and I will do this, but the rest of the year I follow the 1oz per degree rule quite stringently. In January that means 7 pounds of layers for -27F, which is about the most I can wear at once effectively without being over encumbered, but it works well as alot of the stuff stays in the pack but is good to have just in case, as my bag is only 0F rated. Short trips I go by forecasts and just 6 pounds, but 7 isn't unreasonable, though a Go-Lite Pinnacle would be better than a Jam2 for it. Shells and shelter are pretty light for me all year round. I don't use any down clothing either. About 50% wool which stays on mostly, and 50% synthetic layers which can come off and get kicked around without worrying about it getting wet and heavy and frozen. Most of my weight is food and clothing.
Pokey2006
04-18-2009, 16:12
The McFlurry spoon is good. Long and fairly sturdy for a "free" plastic spoon.
Plus, being hollow makes it dual use. I've used one on a very slow flowing rocky spring to make a little pipe to catch water.
CT
Good idea! I'll have to remember that.
The McFlurry spoon=great way to reuse something "disposable." Poor Daja was wasting his energy preaching to the choir...
Uh, I have seen men wear swim trunks with support for both underwear and around the campsite.
mkmangold,
Jetboil French coffee press
Serious? I have a GSI French coffee press and GSI Solo for car camping at the trailhead, and I thought I was decadent.
Seriously, check out my signature.
Reusable mouthwash...
Take 10ml of mouthwash, swish it in your mouth and spit it back into the container. Mouthwash such as Listerine will not lose it's cleansing properties after 20 or 30 uses.
The only problem with that is that every time you spit it back into the container it would get a little bit heavier. Eventually it would be so heavy that,, well never mind, I just don't think its a good idea. :rolleyes:
Panzer
mkmangold
04-19-2009, 00:56
mkmangold,
Serious? I have a GSI French coffee press and GSI Solo for car camping at the trailhead, and I thought I was decadent.
Seriously, check out my signature.
Decadent? Probably. Tired? Definitely. It's this: http://www.jetboil.com/products/accessories/coffeepress without the stem.
Jeremy from FL AKA?
04-19-2009, 01:35
I know I will catch a bunch of crap for this, but all this just to save a couple of grams, mayby onces???? Just find one, or two neccesities you don't need. this will get you pack wieght down with out the hassle of baking sani-wipes, and freeballing itto the wost case of mudbut you have ever had, and then not having sope to wash your ass.
Just a thought, happy trails.
Jeremy
Ditch your tent stakes and use a couple of sticks.
Old Grouse
04-19-2009, 11:25
OK, how about ziploc bags made with 25% less plastic? http://www.drugstore.com/qxp212605_333181_sespider/ziploc_evolve/evolve_sandwich_bags.htm
Jim Adams
04-19-2009, 11:28
Someone mentioned doing away with stuff sacks as a weight saving measure, and after weighing mine I realized I could save around 9 ounces. But how the heck would I find anything?
Look where your stuff sacks used to be!:D
geek
How about a lightweight sealable and washable nylon baggie?
As a DIY project, what's a good way make a sealable top? Some sort of clip, as in fold and clip? The clip would need to go all the way across the top. It might be heavy, but if the baggie was twice or thrice as long as wide the clip could be lighter.
Hey! What about those duotang clips?
p.s. OK. Duotang wasn't the right word. What are those clips called for holding the long edge of paper together. They are plastic and 8.5" long, so they could be cut to 4.25" which is a pretty good width for baggies.
So, take some old broken down piece of gear or clothing made of lightweight nylon.
Especially arms and pantlegs maybe, so you would only need to sew one seam.
Cut arm or leg to baggie size. Fold and sew the bottom.
Fold and clip top with plastic clip cut to length.
Voila. Re-usable Baggies.
You might fold stitch each side of the opening to hold the clip better.
You might also have a piece of string or something that you fold the opening over before clipping.
Look where your stuff sacks used to be!:D
geek
My wife would state that I'm not capable of finding anything that's not openly looking to be found. Sadly, she would be correct. I require some form of organization, but I am going to put extra clothes in with the sleeping bag and combine most everything else into 1 stuff sack. That should get rid of 3 or 4 sacks. It's a start.
It's a wicked good start. I think the idea is to reduce the number or weight of sacks/containers but not to eliminate them completely. Within my food sack I have a few bags/containers but nut too many. I pack bulk food which cuts down some. I like bags for most things like oatmeal. Somethings like raisins and almonds and even chocolate chips can all be combined into one sack. I don't carry much of that stuff so it helps to combine it all. The raisins and almonds seem to help keep the chocolate chips apart. I only bring cholocate in winter, so melting isn't a huge problem. The foods I use special containers for are honey, skim milk powder, and sometimes citrus powder. For honey I use one of this PP containers they come in with a dispenser, and honey for me is the extra emergency food besides being a condiment for sweetness and energy, so what I don't use simply goes back on the shelf. Skim milk powder I find gets too messy when I try to ziploc bag it, so it goes in a PP container with a wide mouth lid and as it gets used I save some volume by putting a bag of something in with it. Mostly I like bags though because they pack better, but a few cylindrical containers are ok. I am still looking for a citrus powder for vitamin C without too much sugar and unwanted chemicals, and I think I have found it with Country Time Lemonaid. Some sugar is OK beacuse you need some anyway and it makes it easier to dispense, but 10g of sugar per 100% of daily vitamin C is a nice amount, and that can be spread out over anything from 1 cup to 2-3 litres of hot or cold lemonaide throughout the day. It isn't as messy as skim milk powder, but you need a lot less, so a small container would be ok even if a baggie might do. It comes in singles which are ok for day trips, but I don't want even that much at a time on long hikes, so a dispenser is better, and I'm trying to get away from overpackaging also, so buy in bulk, and use a re-usable container.
For oatmeal I usually use the 1kg or 1.5kg bag it comes in. I will usually use the bag it comes in unless I don't want to bring that much. I have a small collection of smaller containers. Bags I find harder to re-use. Working on that.
My first aid and sewing and repair kit is all combined into one, with some other odd items thrown in with them unless they are being used and need to be kept handy. When not being used for awhile they go back into the clear plastic ziploc box I use for all that stuff. I might change it to one a little deeper if I find one that fits the width and depth of my pack just as well. If I add some decent holsters for carrying my water bottles in front where I like them I might use the two side pouches on the back for tall clear plastic containers for carrying all that stuff, one on each side. Lots of room there not used as long as I'm not skiing and have to keep the pack skinny. Especially if they are really tall, like 18" of more. Room for about 4 litres in those side pouches maybe. Maybe for extra food when starting out, that would be 4 extra days of food.
Jim Adams
04-19-2009, 13:46
My wife would state that I'm not capable of finding anything that's not openly looking to be found. Sadly, she would be correct. I require some form of organization, but I am going to put extra clothes in with the sleeping bag and combine most everything else into 1 stuff sack. That should get rid of 3 or 4 sacks. It's a start.
Don't want to start a riot here but just a suggestion so I hope that others don't go off on what I'm about to say...this is just an idea.
If you are using an internal frame pack why not see if you can find an external frame of the same weight...they have multiple pockets and compartments.????????:-?
geek
Jim raises a good point. Conceptually, buy combining the functionality of bags/containers with your pack you can save some overall weight. Similarly, by making a pack waterproof you shouldn't need a pack cover, or by making most of your clothing and gear reasonably water resistant, you may not even need a waterprrof pack. Of course this is all just conceptual. The best concept for implementation depends on other things.
I'm not sure though if internal frame vs external frame makes it easier to build compartments into the pack. I have an external frame in mind using two field replaceable hardwood saplings are the fram, like this pack basically...
http://www.primitiveways.com/pack_frame.html
The frame wouldn't make it easier to add compartments. The idea of the frame, I think, is to make it easier to use some other part of your kit, like your bivy sack for example, as your pack, without worrying too much about size and shape and suspension. I think both internal and external suspension are good concepts, and which is better depends on other considerations.
There are really at least 4 concepts when it comes to suspension.
1. External Frame, where something outside of the pack transfers weight down.
2. Internal Frame, where something built into the pack transfers weight down.
3. Frameless Suspension, where the contents of your pack like a blue foam pad transfers weight down.
4. No suspension, where the pack is light enough not to bother transfering any weight down.
My current favourite is #3, but it works best with a simple and fixed pack volume. Jim makes a good point that an external frame allows more flexibility in this respect. I will try using a simple wood frame to allow by bivy to be used as a pack, but as Jim points points out you could also use an external frame to take the onus off the pack and contents in providing the desired suspension.
I don't think any of the first 3 neccessarily provide better suspension than the other 2. It is more the case that whatever suspension is desired can be achieved in different ways, which permits other design considerations to be achieved. Some are better for achieving good suspension with less total weight. Some are better for achieving good suspension and better organization. Others migh provide the same suspension and more flexibility in what and how much stuff you pack. Personally I just like the idea of using two sticks. :)
Don't want to start a riot here but just a suggestion so I hope that others don't go off on what I'm about to say...this is just an idea.
If you are using an internal frame pack why not see if you can find an external frame of the same weight...they have multiple pockets and compartments.????????:-?
geek
I don't think I could find a 2 1/4 pound external frame with 3,900 cu/in of space. My Vapor trail isn't going to be a long term organizational problem, it's just causing a change in how i do some things and I'm still adjusting. :)
I don't think Jim was suggesting you make any specific changes yourself, but more of a general conceptual statement. I haven't tried a Vapor Trail but 2 1/4 ain't too bad for 3900. My current pack is 20oz 3100ci Jam2 and it has tons of suspension with my blue foam pad rolled up inside. The external frame I will make with two sticks and a waist strap will weigh less than 2 pounds, and volume won't be limited.
So, yeah, you can make a 2 pound 3900ci external frame, but you don't need to.
I don't think Jim was suggesting you make any specific changes yourself, but more of a general conceptual statement. I haven't tried a Vapor Trail but 2 1/4 ain't too bad for 3900. My current pack is 20oz 3100ci Jam2 and it has tons of suspension with my blue foam pad rolled up inside. The external frame I will make with two sticks and a waist strap will weigh less than 2 pounds, and volume won't be limited.
So, yeah, you can make a 2 pound 3900ci external frame, but you don't need to.
I agree with you there. I think I could cut another 4 ounces by eliminating some of the spindrift collar on this pack and decreasing the capacity by 900 cu/in. or so. I have a ton of free space with a full load in the pack, so I will probably trim that back a bit.
Use a frameless backpack for loads under 20 lbs.
Use a poncho for raingear and shelter (in warmer weather, mostly).
Buy clothing on the tight side. All that extra cloth to get the coveted "Gangsta" look doesn't fly for ul packing.
Use Esbit fuel tabs and a Heineken pot to heat water (in warm weather).
Use a Supercat stove (single wall aluminum can full of holes that requires no pot stand [saving weight] and uses a shorter windscreen [saving more weight]) in slightly cooler weather.
Cut the handles off of your cookpot or cup and use a bandanna to lift it. Works well with titanium which stays cool at the rim, not so well with aluminum which gets hotter.
Use your bandanna to filter coffee grounds (I did this on the 100 Mile Wilderness hike last fall).
Re: stuff sacks, ditch the many small ones in favor of a few larger ones and arrange the contents so that they fit into a broader category (ex: toiletries, first aid, headlamp, fire starter, and map and compass in one larger bag rather than a bag for each - Sleeping bag and camp wear in one bag rather than a bag for each, etc).
Couple of ideas I came up with the last couple of days. May not be original.
DIY washable sealable bags made of nylon and one of those plastic clips that are 8.5" long used for putting looseleaf together. Cut into 2 or 3 for 4.25" or 2.83" width.
Aluminum Mug/Pot with sealable lid by epoxying and shrink fitting screw top and lid of Helman's Margarine PET bottle onto 750ml Fosters Beer Can.
What do you call those 8.5" long plastic clamps usually used with clear plastic cover sheets for 8.5"x11" paper?
What do you call those 8.5" long plastic clamps usually used with clear plastic cover sheets for 8.5"x11" paper?
It actually functions as a binding for the completed project, so I would say maybe a "plastic binding thingy". :-?
Downhill Trucker
04-20-2009, 07:17
A one pound hatchet doesn't sound ultralight in winter, but its partly for insurance against an extreme cold snap, and saves me from buying and carrying a one pound heavier and $200 more expensive sleeping bag for the remote possibility of -20F. If I ever had to make a better shelter and keep a big fire going at -20F, my small hatchet would do nicely until I can afford a better sleeping bag. Its also handier than a -20F bag for above 0F, though no more neccessary.
I'm a big fan of the Lowes Home Improvement Green Folding Saw in similiar situations. It costs 6.99, weighs 7.5 oz, and seems to cut through logs quicker. It can't split wood, but I haven't found an absolute need for that.
A one pound hatchet doesn't sound ultralight in winter, but its partly for insurance against an extreme cold snap, and saves me from buying and carrying a one pound heavier and $200 more expensive sleeping bag for the remote possibility of -20F. If I ever had to make a better shelter and keep a big fire going at -20F, my small hatchet would do nicely until I can afford a better sleeping bag. Its also handier than a -20F bag for above 0F, though no more neccessary.
I shouldn't have to justify my 1 pound hatchet really, because everything else is light and simple enough I have plenty of room for it. Even if I just hammer one small nail with it on a winter trip its nice to have. Also easier and safer to work with in the cold than my small knife, when gathering and making small bits of fuel for my Kelly Kettle or hobbo stove. Its nice not to have to take my mitts off. Big Bic is better than a Mini Bic in winter also, but a Mini Bic is still ok as a spare.
I like my hatchet too. It is a gransfors mini. I do not use it for all of the items in this quote, but I think this quote can demonstrate its multi-use. Oh the hatchet comes in at 11oz.
"It's small, light and perfectly balanced. It can sharpen a pencil, slice a tomato paper thin, and shave the print right off this page. It will frizz sticks for tinder; cut fine kindling and split small logs. It will fillet a fish, skin a moose, tenderize a steak, turn your pancakes, spread jam and peanut butter; pound tent stakes and chop vegetables. And it will ride as lightly on your hip as the average hunting knife."
-Cliff Jacobson, Tactical Knives
I like my hatchet too. It is a gransfors mini. I do not use it for all of the items in this quote, but I think this quote can demonstrate its multi-use. Oh the hatchet comes in at 11oz.
"It's small, light and perfectly balanced. It can sharpen a pencil, slice a tomato paper thin, and shave the print right off this page. It will frizz sticks for tinder; cut fine kindling and split small logs. It will fillet a fish, skin a moose, tenderize a steak, turn your pancakes, spread jam and peanut butter; pound tent stakes and chop vegetables. And it will ride as lightly on your hip as the average hunting knife."
-Cliff Jacobson, Tactical Knives
my hatchet of choice (carried only when i desire the luxury of a fire, which is not often when im solo, but much more often when there is somebody to enjoy the fire with) is from basspro shops, bill dance outdoors, its super slim, and weighs 10oz......basically a piece of sheet steel with a rubber handle
i think it cost me about $10
OH, and as far as "Cool Ultralight Ideas"
i have a few tricks up my sleeve
carry a hammock instead of tent, and sleeping pad
sleep in extra shirt/rain jacket for more warmth
buy a lighter pack
leave stuff at home.....i might get scolded for this, but id rather carry less weight, walk a bit farther during the day, and basically set up camp, eat, and get to sleep, wake up quick no cook breakfast, and start hiking again, so if i dont need something as i walk, or to setup camp, i generally dont carry it
im working on being able to use my camelbak MULE as an overnight pack....600CI
and im trying to get down from my 2400CI northface terra 40 to a blast 18 1800CI from zpacks.
and im talking about for a weeklong trip......
psyculman
05-31-2009, 08:06
The thick aluminium covers used on most 2 lb. coffee cans to seal the can before opening make good pot lids, and last forever. They're way thicker than any foil.
kayak karl
05-31-2009, 08:18
when i go no-cook i take a cuttingboard/plate made from the side of a gallon milk container cut to about 5"x8"
JuiceBox
05-31-2009, 12:45
OH, and as far as "Cool Ultralight Ideas"
i have a few tricks up my sleeve
carry a hammock instead of tent, and sleeping pad
sleep in extra shirt/rain jacket for more warmth
buy a lighter pack
leave stuff at home.....i might get scolded for this, but id rather carry less weight, walk a bit farther during the day, and basically set up camp, eat, and get to sleep, wake up quick no cook breakfast, and start hiking again, so if i dont need something as i walk, or to setup camp, i generally dont carry it
im working on being able to use my camelbak MULE as an overnight pack....600CI
and im trying to get down from my 2400CI northface terra 40 to a blast 18 1800CI from zpacks.
and im talking about for a weeklong trip......
Damn, and I thought I was satisfied with myself for getting down from a 60 to a 40 pack :/.
Wise Old Owl
05-31-2009, 13:32
Camp shoes - loosen the laces on you trail runners = 0 grams
Ex-lax will lighten the load more than a few grams.....
Wow you really know your sh1t!
oh man! you must be real popular on the trail! Do you have to carry extra TP for that???????:D
ChinMusic if you see this I found your post so funny I almost fell of my chair... I don't mean anything personal here.... I even said this to my dad once as we skirted a large plop on the trail in Shanandoah. He said "Bear" A veriation of this is: "Another smooth move from E-Lax."
Damn, and I thought I was satisfied with myself for getting down from a 60 to a 40 pack :/.
ridiculous if you ask me. i carry more food than that guy does his whole pack
JuiceBox
05-31-2009, 13:59
Honestly, for a weekend trip, I can see it being done. You don't need that much food for a weekender, but I'm with you, I love to pig out after a long day on the trail, whether I'm out for a day or a month.
seriously. my food bag is 1700 cu. i have it packed during 6 day resupply
i dont eat much "on trail"
im just not super hungry, i do drink alot though (water)
im also a simple eater
my favorite trail dinner is simply a ziploc bag with a cup or so of rice, with some chicken boullian, and a pack or two of soy sauce and hot sauce from the chinese place, i call it the "One bag, One meal" philosophy.....
lunch is maybe a can of tuna/sardines, with some crackers, sometimes i just eat 2-3 granola bars
my favorite breakfast is the mountain house blueberry granola, just dump in a cup of cold water, and stir, then ENJOY!
might be lunatic-ish, but it works for me (have not done anything longer than 4 days though) perhaps on a much longer trip i will get hungrier and want to eat more.
my food bag for my last 4 day trip was a pro-lite 3 stuff sack, weighs .8oz
but i had a ziploc of nuts/jerky in my waistbelt pocket, and i have a foilpack with steak and potato in for the fire on the first night, if i would have had it all in one bag, it would have had to be the thermarest medium stuff sack.
one reason i can go so small on the pack is because im a very warm person, and dont carry extra layers, and since i go hiking for the simplicisty of nature, i dont carry an ipod, books, etc, etc.....just "the basics"
and please understand, im talking about a late spring-early fall pack.....outside of that range, my pack gets bigger/heavier, of course
JuiceBox
06-02-2009, 10:29
I don't know if I could do it with that small amount of food every day. You burn roughly 2000 calories for 6 hours of backpacking +/- depending on how large the elevation changes are. On a typical 4 day trip, I'll bring almost a pound of homemade jerky just to snack on, regardless of my meals. I don't like being hungry on the trail :).
you burn more than 2000 cals in 6 hours. more like double that.
JuiceBox
06-02-2009, 12:42
Rough estimate based on my last hike, which was mostly flat ground lol.
ShoelessWanderer
06-02-2009, 12:50
Build fires to save fuel when you have the time
Aluminum spoon
mason string for all your rope needs
no trekking poles
no socks, no underwear
no sunglasses, sunscreen, bug repellent, or soap
no knife
instant coffee if any with styrofoam cup or drink right out of the pot.
instant mashed potatoes (lightweight power food)
Just some suggestions.
You don't wear socks & underwear on the trail??
Kerosene
06-02-2009, 12:51
you burn more than 2000 cals in 6 hours. more like double that.Really depends a lot on how much you weigh, how much you're carrying, how fast you're walking, elevation change, and even how smooth the trail is.
One of the numerous calorie calculators out there results in the following calories burned for various scenarios over 6 hours:
(Body Weight/Pack Weight)
110 lbs/20 lbs = 130 lbs burns 496 kcal/hr * 6 = 2,974 kcal
165 lbs/25 lbs = 190 lbs burns 745 kcal/hr * 6 = 4,470 kcal
220 lbs/35 lbs = 255 lbs burns 935 kcal/hr * 6 = 5,610 kcal
Of course, it's not clear what elevation change and trail difficulty the calculator uses as a baseline, so these numbers could be much higher for the Whites and a lot lower on the C&O Canal path.
ShoelessWanderer
06-02-2009, 12:53
The wife and I just tried this last month on a AT section. Just put them on a cookie cooling rack in the oven at its lowest temp and they dried right up.. Saved tons.
Just add a little water in camp and clean up..
I read this on a thread previously and when I go out for more than 3 days will be a must on my future trips.
Easier way, just leave the package open for a day or two. You'd be amazed how quickly they dry up
you burn more than 2000 cals in 6 hours. more like double that.
Really depends a lot on how much you weigh, how much you're carrying, how fast you're walking, elevation change, and even how smooth the trail is.
One of the numerous calorie calculators out there results in the following calories burned for various scenarios over 6 hours:
(Body Weight/Pack Weight)
110 lbs/20 lbs = 130 lbs burns 496 kcal/hr * 6 = 2,974 kcal
165 lbs/25 lbs = 190 lbs burns 745 kcal/hr * 6 = 4,470 kcal
220 lbs/35 lbs = 255 lbs burns 935 kcal/hr * 6 = 5,610 kcal
Of course, it's not clear what elevation change and trail difficulty the calculator uses as a baseline, so these numbers could be much higher for the Whites and a lot lower on the C&O Canal path.
Energy/hr = Rest Component + Horizontal Component + Vertical Component
Rest Component = 75 kcal/hr per 180 pounds body weight
Horizontal Component = 75 kcal/mile per 200 pounds total skin out
Vertical Compont = 25 kcal/100ft net gain per 200 pounds total skin out
e.g. 180 pound hiker + 20 pounds, hiking 3 mph and gaining 1000 feet:
Energy/hr = 75 + 3 x 75 + 10 x 25 = 75 + 225 + 250 = 550 kcal/hr
Additional factors:
Footwear: every pound of footwear adds additional 5 pounds to horizontal component, so 2 pounds of shoes and socks would add about 10 kcal/hr.
Soft Surface: plowed field increases energy by 1.5, hard snow 1.6, sand 1.8, soft snow 3.0, too horizontal and perhaps vertical components also. For typical hiking trails maybe 1.0 to 1.1, so add another 5% maybe, or 25 kcal/hr
A 20 mile day with 2000 feet net elevation gain:
Rest Component: 1800 kcal
Camp Component: 600 kcal
Hiking Component: 20 x 75 + 20 x 25 = 2000 kcal
Total = 4400 kcal
Then you have to factor in digestion, if you eat all that.
Someone else can do that, but I think its 10-15%, so 5000kcal total maybe.
JAK!!! You are blowing my mind. This is either the most technically advanced stuff ive ever seen or complete hogwash. Where the heck do you get your factors for energy increase on different surfaces. You haven't sited any sources so im assuming you know them by heart which is something else....
flemdawg1
06-02-2009, 16:04
Actually I believe horizontal is closer to 110 kcal/mile.
JAK!!! You are blowing my mind. This is either the most technically advanced stuff ive ever seen or complete hogwash. Where the heck do you get your factors for energy increase on different surfaces. You haven't sited any sources so im assuming you know them by heart which is something else....
http://books.google.com/books?id=L4aZIDbmV3oC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=hard+snow+component+energy+expenditure+walking+ vertical+component&source=bl&ots=WkqVo7Jl4S&sig=n_A5KL4FihDgfht1Bqfy14S30m0&hl=en&ei=XGMmStC6Ed6Ltgeh16jrBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1
Actually I believe horizontal is closer to 110 kcal/mile.It could be, depending on roots and rocks and mud and stuff, but for a 200 pound total skin out on a hard surface like a dry well worn trail its 75kcal/hour not counting the BMR (resting component) and 100 kcal/hr total, plus maybe another 10% for stuff like footwear and the odd thing you might have to step over.
Does anyone remember how much energy is used for digestion? I know that the numbers 4kcal/g for carbs and protien already take into account the fact that not all the food energy is absorbed, but I think digestion energy is on top of that. Digestion takes about 10-15% of the energy of what you eat, maybe more, not sure. I know digesting food boosts your body heat at night by about 20-25% so maybe its more than that, but maybe not. If you are burning some body fat and muscle protien there is no digestion component for that. Body fat delivers 3500 kcal/pound and muscle delivers only 450 kcal/pound because it contains alot more water.
I read recently that human adults have some "brown adipose tissue" in the cheat and neck area, which contains mitochondria and can generate heat without shivering. Some people are better adapted for this than others, but its a way of staying warmer in colder climates. Human infants are born with quite a bit of it, mostly down their back. Interestingly "brown adipose tissue" is a tissue more related to muscle tissue than fat tissue (white adipose tissue).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_fat
Not sure how much energy digestion takes but I know that its not the same for all foods. Its referred to as thermegenics. I know protein is the hardest thing for your body to digest, then carbs, fats and simple sugars.
This is why a diet high in protein helps to burn calories and usually makes you feel more full.
BTW JAK im impressed.
WOW!
very interesting reading....
just for poops and giggle, im 24y/o 230lbs
and typically carry anywhere from 4lbs, to 25lbs total (most of my weight carrying is water) and i hike in PA, which is all up and down, and rocks
i wear go-lite trail runners which weigh 26oz/pair
i am a very warm person by nature, most likely due to the brown adipose cells..lol
and i dont mind being hungry, id rather feel hungry than stuffed, and im trying to lose a few lbs of body fat, so i typically eat less then somebody else on the trail, so that i run a caloric deficit, for weight loss purposes.
HYOH/YMMV of course, just explaining why i do what i do. its not about having the lightest food load, i dont care how much my food weighs, i just plan each meal to be simple, and small, and dont worry so much about calories per lb, and stuff.....oh well
That's what I do also m6amba. I figure my body burns mostly fat when hiking, since most hiking and camping is below 120bpm, but I have lots of fat on me so I don't figure I need to carry that part of my diet with me. Just the protiens and slow carbs and fast carbs I need, and what little dietary fat is still included in that stuff. I think of the carbs as the moss that keeps the fat burning, and the kindling to stoke the fire up for really big hills where most of the carbs are burned. You slow down when you get low on carbs but you don't really stop unless you hit some big hills. Of course the brain always needs its 100g of carbs each day, and I figure another 100g of protien at least to repair the damage, otherwise you start tapping into good horse flesh in addition to all the blubber. I tried and found I can get by at least one day on as little as 1/2 pound of grains and skim milk powder, but I think you might actually burn more fat if you carry at least a pound of food per day and hike longer and farther. Not sure. I haven't done longer hikes than that on really limited food, but I think I could go several days on just a pound if it was all carbs and protien and I went long hours and a steady but not hurried pace.
1 pound of 85% carbs/protien 15% fibre/moisture = 1544 kcal
1 pound of flesh (4:1 bodyfat:muscle) = 2935 kcal
(body fat 13% moisture and 9kcal/g fat, muscle 75% moisture and 4kcal/g protien)
So burning a pound of flesh and eating 1 pound of carbs/protien food yields 4479 kcal of energy, which is enough to go a long way. On the first day you will have another 1200-1800 kcal of carb reserves to fall back on, so you will have some extra energy. By the second or third day that may start getting more seriously depleted despite your bodies preference for burning fat at typical hiking speeds and activities, except on hills. When you do run too low on carbs and don't eat, just rest a bit and continue, you are probably starting to eat more seriously into some muscle as well as the fat. Sometimes you can burn a pound of muscle for only one or two pounds of fat. The brain is the most important thing to keep running, and it can't burn fat like all the other cells, though it can get by on ketones but you don't really want to be doing that. The body can however turn muscle protien into glycogen and feed the brain that way, as well as some for the muscles for hills, but mostly fat for the muscles at that point. The brain alone would demand about a pound of muscle each day, and you don't want to be burning up a pound of muscle each day. Not good for the kidneys either, to convert that much protien into glycogen. Best to use protien exclusively for building and repairing muscle and tissue, plus a little extra to make sure that gets done, 100g say, and use carbs to feed the brain its 400kcal/day, so again 100g say, plus some more carbs and maybe protien because the muscles won't want to be running totally on fat, especially with hills. If you try and burn more than a pound of body fat per pound of food for more than a day or two you are probably going to end up slowing down and not burning that pound of fat per day, or burning more muscle than you really want to in order to do so. You also risk bonking seriously along the way, which makes stuff like hypothermia and falling and getting lost or making serious mistakes alot more likely. I wouldn't want to try and go too far on less than a pound of food per day; say 100g protien, 300g carbs, 15g fat, 15g fibre; and on top of that I would carry 500ml of honey as an emergency ration. Take a tablespoon with 500ml of water if you bonk, and every hour or two as an emergency ration with bark tea and bugs if your food runs out. Best not to run out of food. Its ok to get by with eating less, but foolish to carry so little and run out.
Of course a pound of food should be plenty for a slow paced 10 miles/day without much hills, but always carry more in winter. There's that too. Even in summer you can get hit with some pretty cold wet nights. You don't want to be skimping on food and then find yourself spending a cold night skimping on clothing and sleeping bag and shelter also. Even in summer you might need a big feed to get through a cold night, say if your clothes and sleeping bag got soaked or something. It can happen. Staying warm is mostly fat burning, but a full stomach generates heat in the digestive tract, and seems to kindle the furnace in the rest of the body core. Once cold the body seems harder to fire up, especially on an empty stomach and tired empty muscles. You must always be prepared to sit up and make a hot meal, even if its just a pot of hot water and honey. Oatmeal porridge with currants and almonds and a big mug of hot milk tea with honey over a small fire would be my choice for a cold wet night. Its fun to sit up a night now and then even if you don't have to, then maybe sleep in some once the sun comes up.
Chaplain
06-06-2009, 20:43
If I get my pack weight down where I want it I will switch to a rucksack. That ought to save some weight also.
I know many people don't even use a ground cloth, but WalMart has 2mil "embossed" painters drop cloth in 8x12 for $3.80 or so. I cut a 50x88 inch piece for my Double Rainbow and it came to 4.2 ounces. About 2 ounces lighter than Tyvek in that size, and this stuff is pretty tough.
Someone mentioned doing away with stuff sacks as a weight saving measure, and after weighing mine I realized I could save around 9 ounces. But how the heck would I find anything?
Hope I'm not reposting, but it's a long thread. :)
Those mesh produce bags from onions, garlic, oranges etc work really well as stuff sacks/ditty bags. Can even threat some line thru them to clothes them or use rubber bands. Plus you can get to see what's in them.
Try going lighter with water purifiers. I use a gravity filter setup that weights about 4oz complete. Also use platypus containers, they weight almost nothing by themselves and can be frozen and boiled.
The plastic cutoff bottom of a gal. of milk is ul and makes a great basin for washing, water etc.
Hope I'm not reposting, but it's a long thread. :)
Those mesh produce bags from onions, garlic, oranges etc work really well as stuff sacks/ditty bags. Can even threat some line thru them to clothes them or use rubber bands. Plus you can get to see what's in them.
Try going lighter with water purifiers. I use a gravity filter setup that weights about 4oz complete. Also use platypus containers, they weight almost nothing by themselves and can be frozen and boiled.
The plastic cutoff bottom of a gal. of milk is ul and makes a great basin for washing, water etc.
That's a good idea, but could you ever get the smell of onions or garlic out of them? I stink pretty bad on the trail as it is ;).
That's a good idea, but could you ever get the smell of onions or garlic out of them? I stink pretty bad on the trail as it is ;).
First I spray with hydrogen peroxide and vinegar( a bottle of each) to sanitize them. After they dry I wash them in peppermint soap. The spray removes the smell, but just case the peppermint keeps the bears and vermin away.
Wise Old Owl
06-08-2009, 20:52
"But seriously, you've been a great audience ... for me to poop on!"
Jak you are an awesome individual!
... for you to poop on! :)
Muffin Man
06-16-2009, 21:53
Well you could make your own from blue foam and paracord or use these water shoes as double duty. Triple duty, buy a pair for your grandma and take her to water aerobics.
Sprints are on sale & in the mail....under two oz for the pr I believe.
http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901
http://www.sprintaquatics.com/images/900S.jpg
I'll be trying them out doing the hike from crested butte to aspen camping near the conundrum hot springs.
cheers
Kerosene
06-17-2009, 15:46
I purchased a pair of Sprints awhile back, but after one hike I discarded them. They offer no protection from rocky soil around the campsite, or from mud/water. Frankly, they're not much better than bare feet.
sirbingo
06-19-2009, 14:25
Use a Slurpie© straw from 7-Eleven®
Its a spoon and a straw. Weighs almost nothing.
Colin Fletcher related, he used to take three socks, instead of two pairs. Wash one sock one day, hang to dry on his pack, wear the other two. Next day, wash a different sock, wear the other two, etc. Saved the weight of one sock.
Might have to get three different colored socks just to keep track of the washing cycle.:D
Colin Fletcher related, he used to take three socks, instead of two pairs. Wash one sock one day, hang to dry on his pack, wear the other two. Next day, wash a different sock, wear the other two, etc. Saved the weight of one sock.
Might have to get three different colored socks just to keep track of the washing cycle.:D
I'm going to wear one boot and hop.
thats going to be one big calf when you are done :D and how do you decide left or right?;)
River Runner
06-24-2009, 02:39
Ok so I just checked them out at your link, and it clearly says that they are "not recommended to be used more than once". So your going to carry a different tooth brush for each day of your trip? How is this a weight savings? You gotta pack out the used ones, so your not carrying less as the days pass... Where is the weight savings?
While we should all at least make an effort to reduce what we put into the landfill, the bigger issue is that these things are made of plastic. Plastic is not only a very toxic product to produce, poluting our environment, but it also is made with oil... We have soldier's dying oversea's right now for oil... If you feel saving a gram or two is worth more than our planets health and our soldier's life, then carry on!
I'm just asking that you think about each and every thing you buy and use in your day, everything ultimately is harvested from the resources of our planet, most things require a high level of refinement to make it a usable product. This results in increased polution which in turn puts more strain on the systems of our planet, not to mention higher energy costs... So before you buy something or toss something away, ask yourself, do I really need this? Can I multi use something I already have? How long will this last?
Most important, hiking is a hobby, it's not a necessity of life, so make your hobbies as low impact as possible because we already know that achieving the necessities of life is only a reality in wealthy country's like our own... Choose gear that will last longer than one trip or a few trips... Think durable, long lasting things that you can use for years to come... If what you have works, use it, don't replace it with the latest and greatest, until what you have no longer provides it's function...
It's really quite simple, "live simply so that others can simply live".
Ideas like this make me believe that UL really means Ultra Lazy!
Sorry, but in my opinion you really need to lighten up the attitude. While I agree that multi-use and durable is a noble goal, the gas and oil burned to get to the trailhead has a much greater impact on the environment than a handful of tiny disposable dental care devices. A trip to a fast food restaurant produces more trash. For that matter, the plastic in a toothpaste tube is probably a larger quantity than a handful of these. So no need to act as if someone suggesting using these is destroying the earth.
Ultralighters may even have less impact on the environment, keeping cooking simpler, carrying less gear and thus saving the impact of more use of raw materials and manufacturing processes, wearing lighter shoes with smaller tread that is less disturbing to soil and plants, carrying a smaller pack that isn't as likely to snag and disturb vegetation along the way.
There is more than one way to be concerned about the environment.
Good thread. Picking up some ideas.
I got my pack weight down enough (under 20 lbs) that I could take the hip belt off my SMD Starlight pack, and wear it like an old fashioned rucksack. Did Springer-Hot Springs section hike in 20 days, no problems.
We use a pot cozy made of Warm Windows Fabric. It worked so well that we never used the extra gas canister that we bought at Neels and carried for a few hundred miles (then gave away to a thru hiker). I figure that the cozy doubled our mileage for canister fuel.
I carry only one trekking pole, my wife has the other. We use them mainly as poles to set up our tarptent.
I either sawed off or cut holes in everything possible, to save weight.
I trimmed the blank wasteful edges off all the topo maps.
I ripped sections out of guide books, then discarded used pages as I went along.
And, as I've said before, I'm careful not to "carry water up to water." I only hold enough to reach the next water source during the day, then fill up 2.5 liter Platy at night.
Of course in hot dry weather I carry a lot more water, but I don't hike much in hot dry weather. Usually when I hike it is friggin freezin.
Take the metal zipper pulls (if any) off your pack. I took the 2 off my ULA Ohm hip belt pockets, yea, I know :rolleyes: anyway, , , , I saved 1/8 Oz by replacing them with cord. So now I have a pack that weighs 20 7/8 oz instead of a HEAVY 21 Oz. :p
OutdoorsMan
06-27-2009, 01:16
Dude, this thing is so tiny, I don't think it's going to be putting much of a drain on the landfills. Besides, I would think you could use them more than once. Why don't go check out what I'm talking about before freaking out.
www.colgatewisp.com (http://www.colgatewisp.com)
I am with DAJA on this one.
OutdoorsMan
06-27-2009, 01:45
Yes i'm aware that regular toothbrushes are plastic, which is why I use it until it is no longer effective before replacing... Many things in our world are harmful and wasteful, hell look at the packaging our food comes in... We buy plastic (made from oil) garbage bags to put our garbage in!?! We really are a pretty sad society.
Sorry to get all sacramonious on you... I just get frustrated at times with how disposable our culture is. Who works in an office where people regularly use styro and disposable coffee or water cooler cups, when we could all very easily have a reusable one. How many times have you been hiking and come to some trail magic and find they are serving there generous goods on disposable plates and such, when we all are carrying (or should be) reusable plates or bowls and utensils in our packs?
Yes I understand the principle of easy and convienenience but who wants to explain to their grandchildren that the reason their world suffers so much is because when we where young we wanted to take the easy way out... It's just a matter of having a longer vision than this trip, or this week or even this lifetime... We each do many many things in the run of a day that could collectively have a massive impact on the future of not just our species but the planet as a whole.
Avoid anything that is meant to be disposable, reuse or multi use anything and everything you can think of. But above all, use what you have until it is no longer useful... Don't replace things because there is a newer, lighter, better version available...
Again sorry for the rant, and no I have no UL suggestions as i'm not an ULer, but i'm always looking for new ways of doing things so carry on!
DAJA, I am on your side on this issue as I have felt the influence of marketing gradually increase from my younger years in the sixties to...today. It sickens me that my kids eat lunch at school on dispoable styrofoam plates.
However, the environmental issue is not worth discussing IMO as the bottle of one (of a few) beers that I and many others consume most evenings greatly exceeds the wieght and the environmental impact that these disposable toothbrushes cause.
The problem is that consuming and disposing of containers is second nature to us (and our children). Drinking a bottle of store bought water and throwing the bottle in the trash is ridiculous IMO.
I feel that correcting this behavior in our socirty is next to impossible. Putting effort into things like using renewable energy, more efficient cars, etc seems so much more productive. If the fella wants to use disposablr tooth brushes, I say let him.
SARdaddy
07-01-2009, 15:57
Great ideas!