View Full Version : I love Neo-air!
Morpheus
04-30-2009, 22:44
I sleep on my sides only (r/t snoring/awakening), and I've slept on many different closed foam, self-inflaters, and inflaters. I just used my regular length (14 oz.) Neo-air for 4 nights out.
Wow! is it comfortable. The chambered system works so well that even when sitting-up my butt doesn't touch the ground. The crinkling discussion is way over-cautionary. With my Megalite bag on top, all crinkling was muted to the point I couldn't hear it.
I know right now it's overpriced, but it's honestly one of the best pieces of equipment I put in my pack.
toddhiker
04-30-2009, 22:59
Wow, Morpheus!
That sounds like a piece of gear I need! Congrats on finding one of those "can't do without" pieces of gear.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-01-2009, 00:22
How does it pack up? I am looking for the perfect pad, and have begun to believe I will have to make 1, but you have given me hope.
Big Dawg
05-01-2009, 10:15
From past posts, it sounds like the NeoAir is hit or miss on whether you get one that holds air properly. Sounds like it's worth the hassle to find the one that holds. I'm a side sleeper, and wake up a little side-sore using my TR Prolite 4. When I previously carried the Beast - - TR LE Camprest (2 1/2"), I never had side pain from sleeping. Sounds like 2 1/2" is just right for my big-boned body. And w/ funds becoming available soon, I've got a green light on a NeoAir purchase!!
:sun:sun:sunExcellent mattress. :bananaI am a side sleeper also. Used it 2 nights last weekend on a trip into Ellicott Rock Wilderness. It packs up smaller than a quart Nalgene bottle and had no problem with air leakage.
ive got the neo air short 9 oz. Packs up smaller than a nalgene....i bet i could get it inside. I have never had a problem with leaking air on any of my air pads and I have 3 of them. I think its a matter of taking care of your gear. You should store them onrolled with the valve open. I slide mine under my bed with my down bags.
MintakaCat
05-01-2009, 22:05
Just ordered one, but L L Bean says they can't ship until June 1.
Morpheus
05-01-2009, 22:26
It takes an average of 20 breaths to fill it tight. If you give the warm, air- filled mattress time to cool before you go to sleep, it will contract a little, then you just top off the pressure with a breath or two and you're set.
I experienced no air loss during the night. I like the slightly tacky surfaces for keeping the bag and pad where I started in the tent for the whole night.
You can roll it to Nalgene size, but I ended up folding mine into a square just to fill my pack more efficiently.
Fullstep
05-03-2009, 21:42
Mine needed air every 4 hours...not real happy with that..But I have not given up..I will buy one later in the year.. maybe thay get better with time
Mine needed air every 4 hours...not real happy with that..But I have not given up..I will buy one later in the year.. maybe thay get better with time
Have you contacted the merchant or Therm-A-Rest for satisfaction? Mine have worked great, but enough people are complaining that I kind of think Therm-A-Rest needs to offer a large scale solution for the owners of faulty product.
Fullstep
05-03-2009, 21:57
Fixed mine with a razer blade.....Im not real good with things that dont work
Fixed mine with a razer blade.....Im not real good with things that dont work
Ouch, that was expensive. :(
take-a-knee
05-03-2009, 22:45
Thermarest makes a 36in thermarest now that weighs 8 oz. A Gossamer Gear evazote pad weighs 10 ounces. If you can't sleep on the two of those, you need a hammock.
I sleep on my sides only (r/t snoring/awakening), and I've slept on many different closed foam, self-inflaters, and inflaters. I just used my regular length (14 oz.) Neo-air for 4 nights out.
Wow! is it comfortable. The chambered system works so well that even when sitting-up my butt doesn't touch the ground. The crinkling discussion is way over-cautionary. With my Megalite bag on top, all crinkling was muted to the point I couldn't hear it.
I know right now it's overpriced, but it's honestly one of the best pieces of equipment I put in my pack.
Sounds like I NEED this, because I'm a bony mofo, with sharp elbows and ribs that pierce through pads, and I'm a side sleeper. :p
MedicineMan
05-04-2009, 05:16
I'm in the june waiting crowd even though I pre-ordered 4 months ago, you order the regular size, i ordered the next size smaller and it's on the next manuf. queue....maybe any bugs will be worked out by then.
I'm in the june waiting crowd even though I pre-ordered 4 months ago, you order the regular size, i ordered the next size smaller and it's on the next manuf. queue....maybe any bugs will be worked out by then.
I assume you are talking about the Medium which is 66 inches. EMS had them about two weeks ago when we bought ours and as I stated earlier we've had no problems with them. I'm curious, has anyone who had problems with leaking actually held them underwater and looked to see where the leak was? It might have been easily fixable.
MedicineMan
05-04-2009, 07:58
could be remarkable though, compared to a BA Air Cor 20x48 which weighs 16oz...who knows maybe Brown can pull off a miracle, i leave thursday and wanted to experiment with it and a tarp. I haven't tarped in a long time due to comfort but 2.5 inches might be another option.
Mrs Baggins
05-04-2009, 08:48
I ordered my Medium 3/18 and got it in at our local REI Apr 20th. My husband wanted the Large but REI said that Cascades Designs was going to halt production of those in order to crank out more of the Regular size so he decided on that instead. Its supposed to be in at the store between May 7 - 14. We ordered 2 of the Gossamer Gear 1/4" pads for insulation so we can toss the Zrests we were using on the BA Insulated Air Core. I used my BA Clearview (small mummy style) for 2 nights in SNP with the Zrest on top and it was fine, no leaks, comfortable, but a little too small even for me. The Neo seems to be what we're really after.
Big Dawg
05-04-2009, 09:36
My husband wanted the Large but REI said that Cascades Designs was going to halt production of those in order to crank out more of the Regular size
Yea, I got the same response,,, actually spoke w/ Cascade Designs directly, & they said it would be fall before the next batch of larges come out. After laying on a size regular, I realized I'll have to wait for the large,,,, b/c I'm a large dude.... 6'5" 260#'s. I guess my Prolite 4 will have to do til then:rolleyes:.
Big Dawg
05-04-2009, 09:43
Mine needed air every 4 hours...not real happy with that..But I have not given up..I will buy one later in the year.. maybe thay get better with time
I spoke w/ Cascade Designs about the "losing air" issue (since it seems to be happening to quite a few people), and they said b/c it's a new product, there are going to be some flaws in production, & if someone receives a NeoAir w/ air leaks, to return it for a replacement. Fullstep, it sounds like you got one of the defective ones, & assuming you were kidding about fixing yours w/ a razor blade, then just return it for a replacement.
Mrs Baggins
05-04-2009, 10:25
Yea, I got the same response,,, actually spoke w/ Cascade Designs directly, & they said it would be fall before the next batch of larges come out. After laying on a size regular, I realized I'll have to wait for the large,,,, b/c I'm a large dude.... 6'5" 260#'s. I guess my Prolite 4 will have to do til then:rolleyes:.
My husband is 6' 1" and 220 lb. He's going to at least give the Regular a try and if he doesn't like it then, like you, he'll wait on the Large size and return the Regular when they come out.
warraghiyagey
05-04-2009, 10:28
And he's a football player. . .
BackTrack1
05-04-2009, 15:46
I just used mine on a 3 day trip to the ADK's, worked well, it took about 18 breaths to blow it up, but i did notice with the cold temps on 1 night that it seemed to deflate a little but not a big deal,
it takes awhile to get the air out and roll up , but other then that its a comfortable pad for sure, i slept good on it, and didnt really notice any crinkly noise once it was blown all the way up.
I just used mine on a 3 day trip to the ADK's, worked well, it took about 18 breaths to blow it up, but i did notice with the cold temps on 1 night that it seemed to deflate a little but not a big deal,
it takes awhile to get the air out and roll up , but other then that its a comfortable pad for sure, i slept good on it, and didnt really notice any crinkly noise once it was blown all the way up.
I just open the valve on mine before I get up and then lay on it for a couple minute while it deflates. No muss no fuss...
I lay on mine with the valve open and arms at my sides. than i fold it in thirds length wise so you have a very long 7 inch wide pad. than i roll it up toward the valve. and lastly i suck the last 2 breaths of air out. this method works quickly and its easy.
Johnny Thunder
05-04-2009, 17:48
I'm glad to hear all these good things but would caution any would-be through hiker against carrying ANY inflatable mattress since they do invariably pop or leak over time. If your main purpose is to use these on extended weekends then it might be the right option. I've seen too many inflatable pads fail to recommend them for 180-nights-straight use.
I'm glad to hear all these good things but would caution any would-be through hiker against carrying ANY inflatable mattress since they do invariably pop or leak over time. If your main purpose is to use these on extended weekends then it might be the right option. I've seen too many inflatable pads fail to recommend them for 180-nights-straight use.
In your experience, did the shelter floors contribute to the failures or was it typically just a result of every day abuse? I ask because I love sleeping on 2 1/2 inches of air, but a complete failure would leave me sleepless on the hard ground until I could fix it.
Johnny Thunder
05-04-2009, 19:22
In your experience, did the shelter floors contribute to the failures or was it typically just a result of every day abuse? I ask because I love sleeping on 2 1/2 inches of air, but a complete failure would leave me sleepless on the hard ground until I could fix it.
I can only answer based on my two experiences but I saw more...
The first was a full-on product failure. The seems of a similar air mattress (read: glorified pool toy) failed.
Another time was inconclusive...I could find out later this summer. But, I don't think I stayed in shelters AT ALL with the second mattress since it was summer in VA/MD/PA/NJ...with the bugs and whatnot. By the time I was inflating the thing 8 times a night and waking up on roots I just mailed it home and grabbed the nearest piece of foam.
When through hiking you really do need to follow the K.I.S.S. principle with all of your gear. If it has moving parts and isn't your pocket knife it probably doesn't belong in your pack.
Mrs Baggins
05-04-2009, 19:34
I'm too old to sleep on some freaking hard mat 1" off the floor/ground. If my inflatable fails I'll buy another one. And when that one fails, I'll buy another one. That's the advantage of the older hiker -- we're usually not cash starved and we value our comfort.
skinewmexico
05-04-2009, 19:37
I'm too old to sleep on some freaking hard mat 1" off the floor/ground. If my inflatable fails I'll buy another one. And when that one fails, I'll buy another one. That's the advantage of the older hiker -- we're usually not cash starved and we value our comfort.
+1. But I was that way, and on an insulated air mattress a long time before the NeoAir thing got out of control.
Kerosene
05-04-2009, 22:24
My two Thermarest inflatables have lasted for 1000 miles of use without failure. Like any piece of equipment, and especially for much of the ultralight stuff, your stuff will last longer if you're careful with it. I'm looking forward to 2.5" of padding, because the single inch never really cut it for me as a side-sleeper.
Jester2000
05-04-2009, 22:40
I assume you are talking about the Medium which is 66 inches . . .
Just so everyone knows, Therm-a-Rest makes four sizes: small, medium, regular, and large. Most places that carry the regular probably won't carry the medium, I think, as the regular is 6 inches longer for only one added ounce.
As for packed size, the regular is 9" X 4", and the large is 11" X 4.5"
We've got both in our store, and I've been giving them some thought. I like that the large is wider (25" rather than 20"), 'cause I move about a bit when I sleep, but I usually sleep with my legs up on my pack. Don't think I need the extra length. I'll probably decide after we've sold out.
Jester
OHF
MedicineMan
05-04-2009, 22:44
how is it possible?!?! the notice from UPS via Backcountrygear and the arrival is tomorow so maybe just maybe it will be here in time for the hike later this week....big hopes now for no leaks!
Loving the exceptional comfort and having enjoyed 90+ nights on a Big Agnes without a leak, I'll gladly take my chances with an inflatable. I recently switched to the NeoAir and appreciate both the high level of comfort and weight reduction. As with any ultralight equipment, TLC is called for. A small patch kit provides a backup plan.
Loving the exceptional comfort and having enjoyed 90+ nights on a Big Agnes without a leak, I'll gladly take my chances with an inflatable. I recently switched to the NeoAir and appreciate both the high level of comfort and weight reduction. As with any ultralight equipment, TLC is called for. A small patch kit provides a backup plan.
Does the NeoAir use the same patch kit as self inflating Therm-A-Rest products?
Jester2000
05-04-2009, 23:12
Does the NeoAir use the same patch kit as self inflating Therm-A-Rest products?
Therm-a-Rest says NeoAir users should use the "Fast & Light" repair kit, which comes with six glue dots and six patches designed for their non-self-inflating mattresses (also comes with three alchohol pads).
Rosborn88
05-05-2009, 18:50
Have one as well. Bought the Small only 9oz. It's an amazing pad. I do however have an issue with deflation... I plan on taking it back to Campmor this weekend where I bought it for an exchange. As far as packing it up - it gets soooo small, about the size of a poland spring bottle, would definitely fit into nalgene. takes 8 breaths to fill the shorty, then i bleed out just a little for perfect comfort. It's amazing for any side sleepers out there.... Provided you get one that holds air all night...
Rosborn88
05-05-2009, 18:51
Does the NeoAir use the same patch kit as self inflating Therm-A-Rest products?
Does not come with a patch kit, at least mine didn't. I'm not sure if the glue will stick to the material. It has an interesting rubber feel to keep your bag from slipping off of it.
Mrs Baggins
05-05-2009, 19:31
We ordered patch kits from Backcountry.com. One kit for each mat. It's the "Fast and Light" kits. About $9/each. And I reiterate - - - if it leaks and I can't fix it I'll buy another one. And if that one leaks and I can't fix it I'll buy another one. Advantage to the "old" hikers with the cash!
We ordered patch kits from Backcountry.com. One kit for each mat. It's the "Fast and Light" kits. About $9/each. And I reiterate - - - if it leaks and I can't fix it I'll buy another one. And if that one leaks and I can't fix it I'll buy another one. Advantage to the "old" hikers with the cash!
No mind of the polution and resources wasted.... Can I live on your planet, must be unlimited bounty!
Mrs Baggins
05-05-2009, 19:37
No mind of the polution and resources wasted.... Can I live on your planet, must be unlimited bounty!
Yep. If they keep making them I'll keep buying them. Would you rather the waste of things on the shelf that no one is buying. I'll buy whatever the Hell I want with MY money.
You believe they will continue to stock the shelf with things no one is buying? Hmm, you work in the financial sector by chance?
Fullstep
05-05-2009, 21:36
If my inflatable fails I'll buy another one. And when that one fails, I'll buy another one. That's the advantage of the older hiker -- we're usually not cash starved and we value our comfort.
WORKS FOR ME...my old neo will take up land fill space.(very little).But as soon as more are in stock i will BUY a new one..And give it a go one more time.......
Getting old is not for everybody........
MedicineMan
05-05-2009, 22:10
I leave in 2 days; should I take a backup plan considering the Neoair is spotty on holding air?
Has anyone tried the NeoAir in cold weather? I was wondering about insulation capabilities. Inflatables I've tried in the past, even the insulated ones, made for cold sleeping when the temps drop at night.
i wouldn't. I rely on mine and haven't had any problems. id bring the patch kit and call it a day. if it dies on your you can find a nice soft area by gathering leaves and pine needles and stuff if need be until you get to a refuel spot. i'd take my chances because if we assumed the worst wed be hiking with 100 lb packs all the time.
Has anyone tried the NeoAir in cold weather? I was wondering about insulation capabilities. Inflatables I've tried in the past, even the insulated ones, made for cold sleeping when the temps drop at night.
i haven't yet but i plan on coupling mine with a ridgerest in cold weather which will provide an r value close to 5.
Jester2000
05-06-2009, 00:58
Has anyone tried the NeoAir in cold weather? I was wondering about insulation capabilities. Inflatables I've tried in the past, even the insulated ones, made for cold sleeping when the temps drop at night.
Here's what they claim, don't know how true it is:
"Unrivaled Warmth: Our patent-pending reflective barrier returns warmth to your body and reduces heat loss to the ground, keeping you three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress."
On the other hand, three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress still might not be that warm . . .
i met thrus about a month ago in PA who had been using the neo for awhile and said they were plenty warm on it. the one guy really enjoyed his. they had a feb 1st start, and didn't start out w/ it, but i know they said they were on it in some really cold nights
BackpakingLight has just published a very extensive article on the Neo Air.
They tested the R value at 3 when fully inflated (2.5") and at 2.6 when inflated to 2".
Thermarest claim a 2.5R value.
As a comparison
Z Lite 2.2
Prolite (prolite 3) 2.2
Neo Air 2.5
Ridgrest 2.6
Prolite Plus (4) 3.8
(an R4 mat would be twice as "warm" as an R2)
Note that as all of the mats below the Prolite Plus are not recommended for freezing or sub-freezing temperatures, most will not be comfortalble with the Neo Air (as they would not be with the Prolite 3....) at those temperatures.
There is also some evidence that the R rating may also drop somewhat below freezing, so say at 30f one could be less cold (...) on a Prolite 3 than a Neo, however it would be the other way around above 32F.
Again, and I really don't know why this point is so difficult to understand, the Neo Air is not designed for 32f and below.
Franco
Here's what they claim, don't know how true it is:
"Unrivaled Warmth: Our patent-pending reflective barrier returns warmth to your body and reduces heat loss to the ground, keeping you three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress."
On the other hand, three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress still might not be that warm . . .
3X0=0 ;) That may be the answer for uninsulated air mattresses :D
Ladytrekker
05-06-2009, 12:36
I sleep on my sides only (r/t snoring/awakening), and I've slept on many different closed foam, self-inflaters, and inflaters. I just used my regular length (14 oz.) Neo-air for 4 nights out.
Wow! is it comfortable. The chambered system works so well that even when sitting-up my butt doesn't touch the ground. The crinkling discussion is way over-cautionary. With my Megalite bag on top, all crinkling was muted to the point I couldn't hear it.
I know right now it's overpriced, but it's honestly one of the best pieces of equipment I put in my pack.
I pre-ordered one and it is being delivered tomorrow. I like the way that it is two different pads sewed together which is suppose to help heat the air better inside. I am excited to use mine. I am going to blow it up and try it out on the living room floor. they say 20 puffs to fillup is that true?
ChinMusic
05-06-2009, 14:02
Again, and I really don't know why this point is so difficult to understand, the Neo Air is not designed for 32f and below.
Franco
I agree. The Neo seems like a great option for summer use. Some seem to think the Neo would be warmer than a BA Insulated Air Core, which I personally know is good to its claim of 15°. That will simply NOT be the case.
I like what I've seen regarding the Neo but know it would be insufficient for cold weather by itself.
randyg45
05-06-2009, 15:04
Yep. If they keep making them I'll keep buying them. Would you rather the waste of things on the shelf that no one is buying. I'll buy whatever the Hell I want with MY money.
Airborne!
Matter of fact, ditto for all of your posts in this thread.
ChinMusic
The BA Insulated Air Core was measured at R4.1 so it is in fact a bit "warmer " than the Prolite Plus, or about 60% warmer than the Neo Air.Note that the Thermarests figures (IE R2.5 for the Neo) are accurate if not conservative, the problem is that some people are trying to make it sound bad for actually doing what is supposed to do.
Franco
Rocketman
05-08-2009, 11:53
ChinMusic
The BA Insulated Air Core was measured at R4.1 so it is in fact a bit "warmer " than the Prolite Plus, or about 60% warmer than the Neo Air.Note that the Thermarests figures (IE R2.5 for the Neo) are accurate if not conservative, the problem is that some people are trying to make it sound bad for actually doing what is supposed to do.
Franco
I get that distinct impression as well.
Perhaps, progress is bad because it is expensive and not "reliable" until it has been around a few years.
I'm quite willing to spend a couple of dollars per night for comfort.
I'm too old to spend an uncomfortable night out.... I don't have 30 to 50 more years to enjoy the outdoors.
But, some of the doubters may be more focused on money, and care less about comfort.
FamilyGuy
05-08-2009, 13:09
I used my Regular NeoAir this past week on the West Coast Trail of Vancouver Island. Temperatures got down to 5C and the pad proved to be:
-warm
-light
-not noisy at all (for me)
-extremely comfortable
I had the best sleep(s) in years. No issue with deflation. Slept one night right on a coastal shelf with the pad. No holes.
I used my Regular NeoAir this past week on the West Coast Trail of Vancouver Island. Temperatures got down to 5C and the pad proved to be:
-warm
-light
-not noisy at all (for me)
-extremely comfortable
I had the best sleep(s) in years. No issue with deflation. Slept one night right on a coastal shelf with the pad. No holes.
I haven't had the oportunity to hold one of these in my hands yet, so do you see it being durable enough to toss on the ground for a seat during breaks throughout the day or resting at camp at night? Does Thermarest make a seat sleeve for the Neo yet?
And for those of you who keep bringing this back to a money issue, you missed my point. My complaint isn't with the price nor is my issue a money issue. It stems from the high number of reported failures and the sad state of our world and our compulsion to over-consume. Over consumption leads to nasty little things like wars, disease, increased taxes to cover things like health care, social issues and so on, a decline in our environment, a deterioration of our hobby as peice by peice we lose nature, and eventually the overall collapse of the eco system..
I'm interested in purchasing one of these, but first I must wear out my origional trail-guide thermarest that I purchased over 10yrs ago.. From the sounds of this thing, it likely will not have the lifespan of my original one... Shame that we seem content to pay more for less in terms of quality... Worse still, dispite a products poor quality, we will continue to puchase the same thing repeatedly.. Not much wonder quality has disappeared, where's the incentive for company's to provide quality when we simply just buy buy buy...
Further, you don't have to be old to have disposable income.. I'm young, energetic and resourceful, allowing me to own my own home morgage free complete with property that provides a good portion of my food, and energy needs. This free's up substancial money for discresionary spending. So yes I could buy one of these, and another and another and another, but if it failed once, and no substancial changes where made to improve the quality, i'd seek another product first to send a message to the company that I demand qaulity, and second to prevent further use of resources and energy to produce a poor quality product.
Sure, democracy is alive and well, as long as you believe in voting with your wallet!
I'm young, own my own home morgage free, have minimal debt
FamilyGuy
05-08-2009, 14:39
I haven't had the oportunity to hold one of these in my hands yet, so do you see it being durable enough to toss on the ground for a seat during breaks throughout the day or resting at camp at night? Does Thermarest make a seat sleeve for the Neo yet?
Good question - Like any inflatable, I would be very careful as to where you lay on it with respect to ground cover. The fabric feels fairly durable, but only time will tell. This pad will not be as tough as say the Thernarest Toughskin pad. What I do like about the fabric is that it is 'sticky,' which kept me firmly planted on the thing. It is only 20" wide for the Regular and that may be too narrow for some. I am a side sleeper so no issue.
I should have added that it took 22-25 full breathes to blow it up to my liking. Some may find this a pain.
I do not think that a seat sleeve exists yet but BA has one that will fit on the Clearwave so I suspect it would work here as well.
ChinMusic
05-08-2009, 14:39
.... do you see it being durable enough to toss on the ground for a seat during breaks throughout the day or resting at camp at night?
No freaking way.
Inflatables must be treated carefully no matter which one you buy.
Excellent advice, thank to both of you.. The way my existing 10yr old thermarest is holding up, I'll likely still be using it for another decade... By that time perhaps my body will be looking for more comfort and someone will have produced a super durable inflatable..
Ladytrekker
05-08-2009, 15:10
Got mine today, took me 26 puffs to blow up really tight. Laid on it no painful action digging into my hip bones. I adjusted the firmness by loosening the valve and letting air out to get to the desired softness. Love it. Comfort and a good nights sleep is definitely a concern for multiple days so I am very excited and it folds up to nothing it is so small it will not fit into my bedroll loops on my pack.
Ladytrekker
05-08-2009, 15:12
It is for sleeping only on ground cover or in a tent. It can get damaged by rocks, etc. I am thinking of pairing mine with a z foam pad which is also extremely light. Could use the z pad during the day for resting or sitting, etc. and the neoair for sleeping. I am not as young as most of you and a hard uncomfortable night can ruin my next day, so comfort is important to me.
Snowleopard
05-09-2009, 15:53
Just ordered a small neoair from EMS $95.96 + shipping, but if you order over $100 you get a card worth $25 at EMS (read restrictions). Sale ends 5/10.
REI also has it 20% off for members, with free shipping to your local store).
Rocketman
05-09-2009, 21:19
I can only answer based on my two experiences but I saw more...
The first was a full-on product failure. The seems of a similar air mattress (read: glorified pool toy) failed.
Another time was inconclusive...I could find out later this summer. But, I don't think I stayed in shelters AT ALL with the second mattress since it was summer in VA/MD/PA/NJ...with the bugs and whatnot. By the time I was inflating the thing 8 times a night and waking up on roots I just mailed it home and grabbed the nearest piece of foam.
When through hiking you really do need to follow the K.I.S.S. principle with all of your gear. If it has moving parts and isn't your pocket knife it probably doesn't belong in your pack.
I get the impression that one of your "experiences" was not with a high quality backpacking mattress like a Thermarest at all.
It isn't clear if that is true of the second mattress as well - or was the second failed (unknown reasons) mattress something other than a quality backpacking mattress as well?
We had 8 nights of combined experience on our 2 Medium NeoAir mattresses last week. Only once did we have what seemed like a loss of air over about 8-10 hours. The night that happened my wife inflated both of them and every night they didn't deflate I had done the inflation. Obviously she did something differently than I had and that may be an issue with other reported "failures" as well. I can honestly say they insulate quite well. One morning as we were packing up we had a bad thunderstorm come through and the temp dropped rapidly. The floor of the tent was freezing and we reinflated a NeoAir to sit on for insulation. It worked great.
I did find that they are more comfortable to sleep on when only inflated about 85% full. If inflated to the maximum my lower back would become sore during the night, but it was great when a little soft. Our only complaint, which is not the fault of the product, is that they slide terribly on the floor of the tent. Some silicone will be applied to the pads this week to see how it works. Ovarall I would give them a very high rating.
ChinMusic
05-13-2009, 13:17
Our only complaint, which is not the fault of the product, is that they slide terribly on the floor of the tent. Some silicone will be applied to the pads this week to see how it works. Ovarall I would give them a very high rating.
Don't put the silcone on the pads. Place a few dots/lines on the tent floor.
Don't put the silcone on the pads. Place a few dots/lines on the tent floor.
I was wondering about that. When I seam sealed the tent I put two thin strips across the floor but they really didn't help. That's why I was thinking about doing it to the pad. I'll just try adding some lines in the other direction. Thanks.
Mrs Baggins
05-13-2009, 13:53
I went to REI in Fairfax to pick up my husband's Neo that had finally come in. Took a long time for the clerk to find it. She said they had received 900 of them at once!
I went to REI in Fairfax to pick up my husband's Neo that had finally come in. Took a long time for the clerk to find it. She said they had received 900 of them at once!
$130,000+ worth of NeoAirs in one vendor location. Therm-A-Rest stock must be going up. :-?
Mrs Baggins
05-13-2009, 15:13
[quote=Engine;838084]$130,000+ worth of NeoAirs in one vendor location. Therm-A-Rest stock must be going up. :-?[/quote
I'm sure she was exaggerating, that she was just trying to say they'd rec'd many many of them at once, as in "we just got a ton of these in" "truckload of them arrived" etc :rolleyes:
ChinMusic
05-13-2009, 15:24
I was wondering about that. When I seam sealed the tent I put two thin strips across the floor but they really didn't help. That's why I was thinking about doing it to the pad. I'll just try adding some lines in the other direction. Thanks.
I have nothing to back up this fear, but I would think the silicone on the pad may create a weak spot. Again, I have nothing to back that up.
[quote=Engine;838084]$130,000+ worth of NeoAirs in one vendor location. Therm-A-Rest stock must be going up. :-?[/quote
I'm sure she was exaggerating, that she was just trying to say they'd rec'd many many of them at once, as in "we just got a ton of these in" "truckload of them arrived" etc :rolleyes:
I imagine it was an exaggeration as well, but probably indicative of how fast this product is selling. Other than the slow deflation issue, I have yet to hear anyone who has actually used a NeoAir say anything bad about it. It really is a great product and likely will become a trendsetter in the industry. I hope so anyway as competition will drive the price down and further refine and improve an already pretty great idea.
MedicineMan
05-20-2009, 14:36
Just finished PA! I needed Swatara Gap to DWG....11 days on the trail. First 2 nights I used a size medium NeoAir. Inflation is quick enough 11-12 breaths and yes compared to Therm-a-rest pads of the past (even recent past) it is a vast improvement....but after 2 nights I switched back into a Hennessey Lite Racer.
Unfortunately for me there is abs. no comparison between the comfort of a hammock and sleeping on the ground or in a shelter (did both) with a NeoAir. The hammock is still light years ahead for comfort. I have several therm-a-rests and I'll repeat again that the improvement (slide sleeping now possible, warm ratio great, stickyness prevents sliding) of the NeoAir over the previous models is dramatic.....I'll stick with hammocking whenever possible.....a touch of sad news; my Lite Racer with just over 150 nights in it has developed a small tear, it will have to be retired but I know I got my moneys worth out of it.
I got one. I know I really didn't need it, but it is very light and comfortable. I plan on using it on my Long Trail hike in July. Only draw back is the $$$ to save a pound of weight!
I got one. I know I really didn't need it, but it is very light and comfortable. I plan on using it on my Long Trail hike in July. Only draw back is the $$$ to save a pound of weight!
After a few nights in the woods you will I think agree it is more than weight savings. I have never woke up as refreshed on my old 1" Therm-A-Rest as I do on one of these. Product of the year in my book.
Tipi Walter
05-21-2009, 11:41
I leave in 2 days; should I take a backup plan considering the Neoair is spotty on holding air?
I always take a back up thermarest on all my trips, either as a bundle left inside the car or in a cache hidden under a log at the drop off point. For the NeoAir I would definitely take a back up.
Here's what they claim, don't know how true it is:
"Unrivaled Warmth: Our patent-pending reflective barrier returns warmth to your body and reduces heat loss to the ground, keeping you three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress."
On the other hand, three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress still might not be that warm . . .
Yeah, as far as I can tell, no one really makes an uninsulated pad. If an Rvalue equates to insulation, even the "only just air" pads have around .7 to 1 Rvalue, making them therefore "insulated".
3X0=0 ;) That may be the answer for uninsulated air mattresses :D
I posted something similar a while back on the NeoAir--three times warmer than nothing??
ChinMusic
05-21-2009, 12:20
That is correct. Saying something "is three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress", ain't sayin' much.
Maybe there is a reason they released it in April........:D
Like I've posted before, I think it looks like a great product for above freezing conditions. I'll prob get one at some point. To think that it will be warmer than an Insulated Air Core (which I personally know is good to its rating of 15°) is dreaming.
skinewmexico
05-21-2009, 12:42
You obviously didn't drink the Thermarest kool-aid. :)
MisterSweetie
05-21-2009, 12:51
REI just shipped mine! Yay!
Tipi Walter
05-21-2009, 13:21
You obviously didn't drink the Thermarest kool-aid. :)
That's the truth. The NeoAir Re-education Camps are now full.
I came up with NoxiousAir, a bright orange pad filled with dioxin gas. Very light. And then there's the Spermarest, the only pad filled with yak and bison semen. When sleeping on big mammal ejaculate makes all the difference. Caution when inflating by mouth due to unfortunate blowback, and ovulating females should never use this pad.
That's the truth. The NeoAir Re-education Camps are now full.
I came up with NoxiousAir, a bright orange pad filled with dioxin gas. Very light. And then there's the Spermarest, the only pad filled with yak and bison semen. When sleeping on big mammal ejaculate makes all the difference. Caution when inflating by mouth due to unfortunate blowback, and ovulating females should never use this pad.
Prior to denigrating a new product I must ask how much experience you have with it? I've spent multiple nights on a NeoAir and it is a great product that increases comfort by an order of magnitude over earlier products. Take one out for a week or two and then give us an INFORMED opinion.
skinewmexico
05-21-2009, 14:43
Prior to denigrating a new product I must ask how much experience you have with it? I've spent multiple nights on a NeoAir and it is a great product that increases comfort by an order of magnitude over earlier products. Take one out for a week or two and then give us an INFORMED opinion.
How many nights did you spend on any of the insulated air mattresses that were Backpacker's gear of the year in 2004? Or an Exped? Not saying that the Neo isn't a potentially good product, but it surely didn't deserve all the weak in the knees hysterics it's generated, IMO. Reading a Neoair thread is the gear equivalent to a Jonas Brothers concert, and we're all tween girls. I may buy a Neo some day, but it will be after long term effects are known.
How many nights did you spend on any of the insulated air mattresses that were Backpacker's gear of the year in 2004? Or an Exped? Not saying that the Neo isn't a potentially good product, but it surely didn't deserve all the weak in the knees hysterics it's generated, IMO. Reading a Neoair thread is the gear equivalent to a Jonas Brothers concert, and we're all tween girls. I may buy a Neo some day, but it will be after long term effects are known.
Amen, brother!
FamilyGuy
05-21-2009, 15:47
How many nights did you spend on any of the insulated air mattresses that were Backpacker's gear of the year in 2004? Or an Exped? Not saying that the Neo isn't a potentially good product, but it surely didn't deserve all the weak in the knees hysterics it's generated, IMO. Reading a Neoair thread is the gear equivalent to a Jonas Brothers concert, and we're all tween girls. I may buy a Neo some day, but it will be after long term effects are known.
I don't know - I mean, you bought the Osprey Exos when it first came out after a crap load of hype.
How many nights did you spend on any of the insulated air mattresses that were Backpacker's gear of the year in 2004? Or an Exped? Not saying that the Neo isn't a potentially good product, but it surely didn't deserve all the weak in the knees hysterics it's generated, IMO. Reading a Neoair thread is the gear equivalent to a Jonas Brothers concert, and we're all tween girls. I may buy a Neo some day, but it will be after long term effects are known.
Uh, none. I don't tend to read Backpacker as it has become an advertising whore and the reviews are thus meaningless. I bought the NeoAir solely because it was the best combination of very light weight and superior padding and after a total of better than 15 nights on it I'm more happy with the purchase than the day I bought it. Have you spent even one night on it? If so, I stand corrected, otherwise as I said earlier, leave what it deserves to those who have used it.
As for long term effects, what the heck, now it causes cancer or something? :D
ChinMusic
05-21-2009, 17:27
I can see how someone would be awed by the Neo if it were the first air pad they had used. I would think the comfort level to be similar between most 2.5" air pads. 2.5" is 2.5".
I can see how someone would be awed by the Neo if it were the first air pad they had used. I would think the comfort level to be similar between most 2.5" air pads. 2.5" is 2.5".
I'm not awed by the 2.5", it's the combination of 2.5" and 12 ounces that nothing else comes close to.
FamilyGuy
05-21-2009, 18:16
I'm not awed by the 2.5", it's the combination of 2.5" and 12 ounces that nothing else comes close to.
And packability.
backpackinglight.com did a review and indicated that a 3 R-value is realistic. So add warmth for the weight for the comfort for the packability.:D
I'm not awed by the 2.5", it's the combination of 2.5" and 12 ounces that nothing else comes close to.
It is light. I had a BA and what a difference.
ChinMusic
05-21-2009, 18:24
It is light. I had a BA and what a difference.
Never said it wasn't light. I HAVE said I might get one for summer. I love the idea of the lighter weight/smaller size. I suspect the comfort is equal and not some breakthrough product in this regard. The noise issue doesn't bother me as I often use earplugs.
I just know I would need something added to the pad if below 32° and that is not necessarily bad thing when compared to the total weight.
Never said it wasn't light. I HAVE said I might get one for summer. I love the idea of the lighter weight/smaller size. I suspect the comfort is equal and not some breakthrough product in this regard. The noise issue doesn't bother me as I often use earplugs.
I just know I would need something added to the pad if below 32° and that is not necessarily bad thing when compared to the total weight.
I have slept on mine in freezing weather (barely at 30*) and a 35* bag, and never noticed any chill. I am a really warm sleeper though and your results might vary.
gravityman
05-21-2009, 19:14
that's The Truth. The Neoair Re-education Camps Are Now Full.
I Came Up With Noxiousair, A Bright Orange Pad Filled With Dioxin Gas. Very Light. And Then There's The Spermarest, The Only Pad Filled With Yak And Bison Semen. When Sleeping On Big Mammal Ejaculate Makes All The Difference. Caution When Inflating By Mouth Due To Unfortunate Blowback, And Ovulating Females Should Never Use This Pad.
Very Funny!
I'm thinking about it for summer use, as i've been using a z-rest that just doesn't do it for me. it's thin, doesn't give much cushion and is pretty cold. the regular neo is about the same weight as the full length z rest and has a marginally better r value according to rei. Backpacking light puts the rvalue closer to 3 which would be nice. The price kills me, but then i think about how important sleep is on multiday trips.
Hope this doesn't happen to mine when I finally get it
Is it not possible to truely put a product through its paces to work out the bugs before releasing the product into the marketplace? A long term test and trial phase under a variety of conditions must be cheaper than dealing with the direct cost of replacing failures, and indirectly the damage to reputation....
Hope this doesn't happen to mine when I finally get it
They paid extra for the pillowtop option. :D
Tipi Walter
05-23-2009, 08:52
Hope this doesn't happen to mine when I finally get it
Wow--the first actual photograph I've seen of "delamination"!! I started using Thermarest pads around 1981 and over the years have had many of them and basically lived on them, whether in tents or bedroll camps or up at the Tipi where I used a series of Camps Rests(now called the Base Camp).
In all those years I had about 3-4 pads delaminate and produce an air bubble as shown in your post. The outside fabric pulls away from the inner foam core, or whatever is used to keep it attached, making sleeping on it nearly impossible. I spent many nights hunched over a big air bubble trying to sleep--details(and cursings)are not forthcoming.
I emailed Thermy about it 2 years ago and they told me it's due to long "overuse" and "body oils". A year before that I took in a bladdered Camp Rest to Footsloggers, an outdoor store in Boone, NC. The clerk asked me, "Do you use this pad all the time?", as if constant use somehow negates the warranty. I stood my ground and demanded a replacement, fed up with all the delaminated Thermarests I have owned. He finally called Cascade Designs and they told him to give me a brand new Camp Rest, as the bladder was a manufacturing defect. He did so reluctantly. Hooray. So I got a new pad.
Wow--the first actual photograph I've seen of "delamination"!! I started using Thermarest pads around 1981 and over the years have had many of them and basically lived on them, whether in tents or bedroll camps or up at the Tipi where I used a series of Camps Rests(now called the Base Camp).
In all those years I had about 3-4 pads delaminate and produce an air bubble as shown in your post. The outside fabric pulls away from the inner foam core, or whatever is used to keep it attached, making sleeping on it nearly impossible. I spent many nights hunched over a big air bubble trying to sleep--details(and cursings)are not forthcoming.
I emailed Thermy about it 2 years ago and they told me it's due to long "overuse" and "body oils". A year before that I took in a bladdered Camp Rest to Footsloggers, an outdoor store in Boone, NC. The clerk asked me, "Do you use this pad all the time?", as if constant use somehow negates the warranty. I stood my ground and demanded a replacement, fed up with all the delaminated Thermarests I have owned. He finally called Cascade Designs and they told him to give me a brand new Camp Rest, as the bladder was a manufacturing defect. He did so reluctantly. Hooray. So I got a new pad.
Why would he be reluctant? Didn't Cascade Designs eat the cost of honoring the warranty? Overall it sounds like poor customer relations from everyone involved. As for the NeoAir failures, I've been lucky with the 2 we have, but lots haven't and it bugs me that Therm-A-Rest hasn't had a recall or at least halted production until the problems are solved.
As I said, I love the product and it is truly great compared to older pads, but I understand the undercurrent of angst with it.
tacedeous
05-24-2009, 05:31
I almost wish i could make mine do this in the first 4 or 5 inches... make for a great pillow, with no added weight... throw some fleece on top and your cookin with fire!
Jester2000
05-24-2009, 13:16
I came up with NoxiousAir, a bright orange pad filled with dioxin gas. Very light. And then there's the Spermarest, the only pad filled with yak and bison semen. When sleeping on big mammal ejaculate makes all the difference. Caution when inflating by mouth due to unfortunate blowback, and ovulating females should never use this pad.
Prior to denigrating a new product I must ask how much experience you have with it? I've spent multiple nights on a NeoAir and it is a great product that increases comfort by an order of magnitude over earlier products. Take one out for a week or two and then give us an INFORMED opinion.
Whether you like Tipi Walter or not, whether you like the Neoair or not, how a person could not find the first quote hilarious is absolutely beyond me.
daylaandjasper
05-30-2009, 15:11
I had a delamination bubble develop on my old thermareast Ultralite 3/4. It developed after my AT 01 thru and a summer of ridgerunning- sent it to cascade Designs and they sent me a new one no questions asked. And now its sitting in the closet, brand new hardly used cause the Prolite 3 came out and was WAY lighter. And now that's sitting in the closet (with mulitple successful patches (used on the PCT)) and being the gear whore I am I have a brand new Long neoair. I'm getting too old to sleep with my feet on my pack. And I'm a side sleeper.
Survivor Dave
06-10-2009, 19:05
I went to REI just to check it out and there were none available in the 4 Metro Atlanta stores. Apparantly they are in high demand as someone decided to "remove" the demo as well.
Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.
Rocketman
06-10-2009, 20:21
Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.
Did you see the new Thermarest "Trail" line, the low cost bottom end line.
I saw a 48"X20"X1" one of these in my local Gander Mountain for $29.99. They were also in the local backpacking store, but I didn't check the price there.
They weigh less than 1 pound, I thought the short length one was 13 ounces for that $29.99 price.
Dave. I think that there is no need at all for Thermarest to lower the price of the top of the line lightweight champ. Wishful thinking to want a 30% cut.
Thermarest is taking on the low cost heavy junk head on. They just might well win at the top and bottom ends of the price points. I am impressed with the breadth of this 2009 bunch of models.
Survivor Dave
06-10-2009, 21:45
Did you see the new Thermarest "Trail" line, the low cost bottom end line.
I saw a 48"X20"X1" one of these in my local Gander Mountain for $29.99. They were also in the local backpacking store, but I didn't check the price there.
They weigh less than 1 pound, I thought the short length one was 13 ounces for that $29.99 price.
Dave. I think that there is no need at all for Thermarest to lower the price of the top of the line lightweight champ. Wishful thinking to want a 30% cut.
Thermarest is taking on the low cost heavy junk head on. They just might well win at the top and bottom ends of the price points. I am impressed with the breadth of this 2009 bunch of models.
I need a full length pad. Actually, in a few months there will probably be sales going on at the major outlets and stores. With the REI discount or others, I will probably get it below $100.
I am pretty happy with the Prolite 4 I've been toting around for 3 years, but if I can cut weight, I will.
I went to REI just to check it out and there were none available in the 4 Metro Atlanta stores. Apparantly they are in high demand as someone decided to "remove" the demo as well.
Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.
I bought the last one at the REI in Kennesaw :D
I went to REI just to check it out and there were none available in the 4 Metro Atlanta stores. Apparantly they are in high demand as someone decided to "remove" the demo as well.
Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.
You can use this coupon at backcountry.com until July 6th for a 15% discount - not 30% but better than 0%.
4ah-1-ycpf2
Survivor Dave
06-18-2009, 23:55
You can use this coupon at backcountry.com until July 6th for a 15% discount - not 30% but better than 0%.
4ah-1-ycpf2
Thanks. I just got a liner from them with the same coupon. They don't give you much time. Yes, 15% is better than zero!
Mrs Baggins
06-27-2009, 12:57
My husband just returned from 4 days/3 nights in the Marble Mts area of northern California. First time out with his new Neo Air (I have one as well but haven't been out with it yet) and he absolutely loved it! He said he'd never slept so well. He didn't use his Gossamer Gear pad with it as he didn't want to carry it. The temps were in the upper 40's at night and he was plenty warm enough (REI Halo bag) and he had no problems with it being noisy (the rustling noises some report). Prior to the Neo we were using BA insulated air core pads. He far prefers the Neo.