View Full Version : Go Light Go Fast
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 00:23
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why? I understand going light to a point, I am sure most of us would do just fine with a bedroll, a lighter a, 1 liter bottle of water and some ramen. Tie the roll to your back with the food inside and there you go less than 5 pounds of gear, but we don't do this.
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 00:28
NO i do the same just i go ultrlight same maount just lighter stuff or makshift
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 00:31
Yeah at last check my pack was 27 pounds loaded with water and food, but I know the weight has gone up some. I will keep it under 35 pounds, but I will take a lot of junk I don't need. Like and don't laugh at me a solar panel from my truck which will be used to keep my phone and cameras batteries charged.
Johnny Thunder
05-05-2009, 00:33
No, you're right...and this is coming from an ultra-lighter. But, it's not about light and fast...it's about light and efficient. Imagine that you are deciding between comfort while hiking and comfort while camping. There's probably a bunch of gear that you might carry for a weekend but not for a week b/c it provides a bit of extra happiness at the end of the day but would weigh you down over the long-term. For me, that's often a six pack or a bunch of steaks. But, for a number of reasons neither seem to make it past the first night.
You don't need to have a light pack to do big miles. It helps but it's not an absolute. You will enjoy the hiking aspect of your outings when you carry less.
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 00:34
LOL i got one of those mini panels,LOL im between 19 to 22 pounds currently ,hey u need a camera yuh know or the trip is almost pointless if u cant bragg
Johnny Thunder
05-05-2009, 00:34
Oh yeah, that solar panel is close to useless on the AT because of the varied tree cover.
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 00:36
I love showing picks off,
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 00:37
yeah but on sunny days u cab use it ,i only use it once and a while otherwise its useless to me,like in Ak in the winter enitrely useless during the Cold show-three nights under the Northern Lights very cool
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 00:39
The one I have produces 12 volts at .5 amps in the shade and 14.8 volts at 1.5 amps. It is connected by a cigarette lighter plug to 8 lithium ion rechargeable AA batteries ran in series inside of a 15.5 inch piece of 1/2 inch pvc tubing. I have a mini panel with it's own battery but you are right Johnny that thing sucked bid donkey balls on the trail.
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 00:44
Any one see some cat with a Bear fence LOL anyone every seen one? freakin eletric fence LMFAO!!!!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 00:48
Any one see some cat with a Bear fence LOL anyone every seen one? freakin eletric fence LMFAO!!!!Does the hair stand up on the cat or just fall out?
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why? I understand going light to a point, I am sure most of us would do just fine with a bedroll, a lighter a, 1 liter bottle of water and some ramen. Tie the roll to your back with the food inside and there you go less than 5 pounds of gear, but we don't do this.
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?For some people, it is more enjoyable walking in the woods with a light pack rather than a heavy one, and they see and experience more (and enjoy it more) when they aren't constantly aware of a big load on their back. Not everyone, of course.
Why do you say hike fast? Walking is about 2 to 3 mph no matter what weight your pack. It isn't so much hike fast, as hike longer (more hours per day) and more comfortably.
7 to 10 miles a day is about right I would think for a heavy pack.
Carry an ultra-heavy pack and cover 3-6 mies a day, or a light pack and cover 15 to 20 miles. (Or some such numbers - you get the idea)
I think the difference is that with a giant pack, after 3-4 hours you're beat, whereas with a light pack, there isn't really a hit-the-wall moment. You just walk along, enjoying the view, not straining. Don't really walk fast, just that instead of spending 4 hours a day hiking and 8 sitting in a shelter/camp, you are walking for 10+ hours a day.
The choice is yours, though as someone said, if you enjoy camping more than hiking, a light pack is defintely not the way to go. If you are going to spend more time in camp than on the trail, pack some neat camp comfort things. OTOH, if camping is what you do to rest up so you can hike tomorrow, lighten your load so you can enjoy the hike more.
The beauty is that everyone can decide how they want to do it. Don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you that their way is better. It is better for them, but not for everyone.
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 00:50
LOL the cat is always fuzzy LOL
Chaco Taco
05-05-2009, 01:04
When I first got serious about backpacking, I didnt think weight was so critical, but it changes the overall comfort of hiking. Hiking fast coincides with the weight IMHO.
garlic08
05-05-2009, 01:11
I think Frosty said it perfectly.
I passed a thru hiker on the Arizona Trail the other day--my age and fitness level, about the same pack size and weight, but he was hiking 15-20 mpd, and I was hiking 20-25 mpd. Even he asked why I did such long days, since I didn't have a schedule, and I couldn't explain it. It's just the way I like to hike. We met when he was taking a break, and after ten minutes there I got restless and got up to walk and he was going to sit there for a while. Just different, nothing to worry about.
Personally, I like looking back from a high point at the end of a day of hiking and not being able to see where I started that day.
Now there are some circumstances, especially out West here, when it's strategically helpful to be able to hike 25-30 mile days, like when it's 40 miles to the next water and you really don't want to carry more than two days of water. Or 200 miles to the next grocery store and you don't like to carry more than eight days of food. If you do that a few times, it changes the way you hike.
I like a light load. I hate a heavy load.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 01:28
I like a light load. I hate a heavy load.
What do you consider light? At last check my pack was 27 pounds with water and food, but I know it is a bit heavier right now.
Chaco Taco
05-05-2009, 01:30
What do you consider light? At last check my pack was 27 pounds with water and food, but I know it is a bit heavier right now.
Not bad!:D
Alaskanhkr23
05-05-2009, 01:57
I like a light pack load but i still like to feel some weight there you know,
What do you consider light? At last check my pack was 27 pounds with water and food, but I know it is a bit heavier right now.
I did 50 miles on the BMT last year. 4 days, 3 nights. 16lbs. If I were a Long distance hiker, which i'm not, I would have to go a little heavier. One reason I don't go long distance is because I hate heavy loads.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 02:15
Dang man my big 3 and water weigh more than 16 lol. Heck my bedroll and Backpack weigh 9.5 not including my Bivy which is 1.5 lol.
No, you're right...and this is coming from an ultra-lighter. But, it's not about light and fast...it's about light and efficient. Imagine that you are deciding between comfort while hiking and comfort while camping. There's probably a bunch of gear that you might carry for a weekend but not for a week b/c it provides a bit of extra happiness at the end of the day but would weigh you down over the long-term. For me, that's often a six pack or a bunch of steaks. But, for a number of reasons neither seem to make it past the first night.
You don't need to have a light pack to do big miles. It helps but it's not an absolute. You will enjoy the hiking aspect of your outings when you carry less.
You hit the nail squarely on the head. I don't really give up much while in camp, I just make do with lighter weight items. But, while on the trail I am enjoying the time spent walking as opposed to thinking I wish I were in camp.
For some people, it is more enjoyable walking in the woods with a light pack rather than a heavy one, and they see and experience more (and enjoy it more) when they aren't constantly aware of a big load on their back. Not everyone, of course.
Why do you say hike fast? Walking is about 2 to 3 mph no matter what weight your pack. It isn't so much hike fast, as hike longer (more hours per day) and more comfortably.
7 to 10 miles a day is about right I would think for a heavy pack.
Carry an ultra-heavy pack and cover 3-6 mies a day, or a light pack and cover 15 to 20 miles. (Or some such numbers - you get the idea)
I think the difference is that with a giant pack, after 3-4 hours you're beat, whereas with a light pack, there isn't really a hit-the-wall moment. You just walk along, enjoying the view, not straining. Don't really walk fast, just that instead of spending 4 hours a day hiking and 8 sitting in a shelter/camp, you are walking for 10+ hours a day.
The choice is yours, though as someone said, if you enjoy camping more than hiking, a light pack is defintely not the way to go. If you are going to spend more time in camp than on the trail, pack some neat camp comfort things. OTOH, if camping is what you do to rest up so you can hike tomorrow, lighten your load so you can enjoy the hike more.
The beauty is that everyone can decide how they want to do it. Don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you that their way is better. It is better for them, but not for everyone.
The walking speed while hiking with a light pack does may not go up a lot, but it certainly goes up. The rule of thumb while running is a savings of 2-3 seconds per mile for every pound lost. That's 1 1/2 minutes per mile for me over my old gear and that can add up over the course of a day. The big difference though, as Frosty pointed out, comes from time on your feet. I can go 8-12 hours now and not feel like I need a vacation from my vacation the next day. It's not for everyone, and even elicits some scorn from a few, but for me UL within sensible limits is the way to go. :)
notorius tic
05-05-2009, 04:14
Hiked with my best friend Niner in o7 thru. He got hist trail name Niner self inficted does not get up before 9 does not hike more than 9miles an does not goto bed before 9..... And we had a BLAST. We ended up flip flopping to catch up but we saw it all. And carried all the stuff to make the Expience a Fun time.:sun
Trailbender
05-05-2009, 05:52
My pack is around 35 lbs fully loaded with a week's worth of food. It balances really well in my pack though, and I can hike all day with it.
fiddlehead
05-05-2009, 08:55
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
I remember when my brother went and hiked the Inca trail. HE took a week to: fly down, one day acclimating, 3 days hiking, one day in Cusco and fly home.
I did the same trip in one month. (although i did some other hiking while i was down there)
Looking back on it, we both say we had a good trip.
But, i don't think i could enjoy his way. And he would never take all that time to do it mine.
Up to you! Call it a good hike if you had fun are ready to go back for more.
bigcranky
05-05-2009, 09:05
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
Are you in a minority? Nope, you probably hike farther and faster than most weekend backpackers. But most long distance hikers that I've met generally want or need to hike more than 7-11 miles per day. After a couple of days to re-acclimate, I like to do 14-16 miles per day, and yes I do stop at every spot that looks cool. And I'm not running down the trail. And my pack is the same weight as yours. I just like to walk, starting early in the morning and ending late in the evening, with plenty of breaks during the day.
Tipi Walter
05-05-2009, 09:40
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why? I understand going light to a point, I am sure most of us would do just fine with a bedroll, a lighter a, 1 liter bottle of water and some ramen. Tie the roll to your back with the food inside and there you go less than 5 pounds of gear, but we don't do this.
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
I think 7 to 11 miles is a near perfect number for daily miles walked, whether wearing a light or heavy pack. I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but we live in a culture that seems to worship speed. With a click of the mouse or a switched channel on the remote, we can feed our low concentration levels and in turn develop short attention spans which in part seems to explain this current obsession with miles and the light packs needed to do them. I heard of one person who did the 300 mile BMT in 10 days, and all I could think of was "Blur".
Yeah at last check my pack was 27 pounds loaded with water and food, but I know the weight has gone up some. I will keep it under 35 pounds, but I will take a lot of junk I don't need. Like and don't laugh at me a solar panel from my truck which will be used to keep my phone and cameras batteries charged.
Your 27 pound pack load is totally random without a reference to how many days you stay out. Is this weight for a weekend? A 12 day trip? Citing "23 pounds loaded with water and food" sounds great, but for how long?
jersey joe
05-05-2009, 09:43
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
Naw, you are in the majority. A lot of folks that hike 7-11 miles per day think there is something wrong with a 20mpd hike.
I like to hike and I like to camp. So when hiking the further I can go the more stuff I can see. The lighter I go the further I can hike. Also, when I arrive at a campsite I dont like to be sore from a days hike, I like tohave the energy to build a fire, which means I need to collect wood, I also like to hang out instead of passing out. The lighter I go the more refreshed I feel the following morning. Also im a gear junkie and its a fun game for me to see how light I can go. I also have a thing for trying to survive off the land, I have a dream of living in canada or alaska on my own in a cabin in the woods.
jersey joe
05-05-2009, 10:01
I think 7 to 11 miles is a near perfect number for daily miles walked, whether wearing a light or heavy pack. I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but we live in a culture that seems to worship speed. With a click of the mouse or a switched channel on the remote, we can feed our low concentration levels and in turn develop short attention spans which in part seems to explain this current obsession with miles and the light packs needed to do them. I heard of one person who did the 300 mile BMT in 10 days, and all I could think of was "Blur".
Tipi, here is the flip side to your arguement:
I think 18 to 25 miles is a near perfect number for daily miles walked, whether wearing a light or heavy pack. I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but we live in a culture that seems to worship BEING LAZY. With a click of the mouse or a switched channel on the remote, we can JUST SIT ON OUR BUTTS and in turn develop A RECORD NATIONAL OBESITY LEVEL which in part seems to explain this current obsession with SLEEPING LATE, SITTING AROUND CAMP AND HIKING FOR ONLY 3 HOURS A DAY TO COVER 7 MILES and the light packs needed to do them. I heard of one person who did the 300 mile BMT in 42 days, and all I could think of was "WHAT A LAZY PERSON".
Rockhound
05-05-2009, 10:13
I think 0 to 50 miles is a near perfect number for daily miles walked and ideal pack weight is anywhere between 10 and 80 pounds. A good time for a 300 mile hike is anywhere between 1 week to 2 months.
hike your own hike. the less weight you carry (in general) the less comfortable you will be in camp.
Chaco Taco
05-05-2009, 10:19
the less comfortable you will be in camp.
Yea because that is what truely matters. When out hiking being in camp is most important.
Chaco Taco
05-05-2009, 10:20
hike your own hike. the less weight you carry (in general) the less comfortable you will be in camp.
One of the most untrue statements
double d
05-05-2009, 10:44
I think Tipi Walter is correct in saying that we live in a culture that really loves to reinforce the fast paced, consumerism (buy the latest gadget that will be outdated by next Tuesday) and instant gradification (I want it now) society. I think the real question to ask is why some folks are so obsessed with miles? I've never been a thru hiker, so making miles isn't as important to me, but I hike from one point on a map to another and I like to know how far, so miles are important to some degree, but while hiking any amount of miles, did you see more then your feet for 5-10 hours?
hike your own hike. the less weight you carry (in general) the less comfortable you will be in camp.
def hike your own hike but i believe that if you have a light pack, when you arrive at camp you are less sore and achy from the day and thus get a better nights sleep than if you had carried some heavy gear.
This is KEY. Hiking light does not mean sacrificing comfort.
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why? I understand going light to a point, I am sure most of us would do just fine with a bedroll, a lighter a, 1 liter bottle of water and some ramen. Tie the roll to your back with the food inside and there you go less than 5 pounds of gear, but we don't do this.
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?For one thing, it is a very traditional way of travelling, especially over distances you might be able to cover in a weekend or a week. Typical travel in the woods, for perhaps thousands of years, would have been from one settlement to another, carrying just enough food for the trip, and up to a week is a good practical distance when carrying food. By going light, you can travel farther in that amount of time. The other advantage of travelling faster, and particularly under a week, is to take full advantage of breaks in the weather, and mitigate against the risk of weather turning foul. This was especially important in winter, and still is, because in the mid-latitudes where we live, synoptic weather systems are typically 2-10 days in duration, and more predictable over periods of 2-5 days. Going light can also enable a quantum shift in the mode of travel. In winter going light might enable cross country skis. In summer, it might enable trail running. In no way does this take away from the enjoyment of the outdoor experience. It is just a different way of doing it, no better and no worse. The best I think is a mix, both fast and slow, both summer and winter. The places you hike can vary also. Paddling and cycling perfectly valid options also. In many ways paddling in North America is more traditional than walking, though development has perhaps impacted water travel more than it has ridge travel.
jersey joe
05-05-2009, 11:07
I think Tipi Walter is correct in saying that we live in a culture that really loves to reinforce the fast paced, consumerism (buy the latest gadget that will be outdated by next Tuesday) and instant gradification (I want it now) society. I think the real question to ask is why some folks are so obsessed with miles? I've never been a thru hiker, so making miles isn't as important to me, but I hike from one point on a map to another and I like to know how far, so miles are important to some degree, but while hiking any amount of miles, did you see more then your feet for 5-10 hours?
I don't think it is a matter of being obsessed with miles as much as it is a personal choice to prefer hiking more hours in a day than sitting at camp for more hours in a day. Hiking more miles per day usually means more hours hiking per day, not a faster pace.
well really its all about what you yourself desire!I have hiked fairly light and well that was fun! but I also like having a few more tricks in my pack.I usually carry around 45-50pnds on my long hikes.ky
Fast and light doesn't have to be fast paced, in the modern sense. It often is, I agree, but it doesn't have to be. It can be quite natural and traditional, as I have said.
Films like "Last of the Mohicans" provide some inspiration for going fast and light.
The book I read "Life and Sport on the North Shore", by Napoleon Comeau, also provides alot of inspiration and guidance and wisdom. When hauling traps or furs, it was typically heavy and slow, but when simply travelling, it was fast and light, even in winter. Perhaps especially so in winter. That was the reality. It is nice to do both. If anything, in the modern sense we need to make excuses to go heavy, not to go light. Since we rarely have the need to carry traps or furs or provisions, we have to conjur up all sorts of excuses to go heavy. Outfitters are excellent resources for such ideas. ;)
Some of like to walk all day. Some like to camp more.
But, if you listen to people like Tipi Walter, those of us who enjoy hiking as opposed to camping are misguided souls (soles?).
Anyway, we all know there is only one, true, correct and absolute way to hike.. (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/pdf/hike-my-hike-damn-it.pdf)
Remember, don't hike your own hike..hike MY hike damn it! It's really what people mean after all.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 13:57
So is it the destination people like more or the Journey?
Me personally I love the Journey, I will stop in a spot like Charlies Bunyan for 30+ minutes. Not because I am tired or want a break, but because that view and others like it is the biggest reason I hike. I will say that when hiking to a destination that has the view, I will high step the whole way.
I also hike until dark or close to it, and still only hike 7 to 11 miles a day lol. I am sure if I didn't stop to commune with nature every other minute I would make much better time.
Even people that choose journey over destination may prefer fast and light over slow and light or slow and heavy. As I said, fast and light has a longer history than slow and heavy. Slow and light has an equally long history however. That is why we are bimodal as well as bipedal. We can walk, but we can also run, and unlike most animals on this planet, we have evolved as a species to be able to run and run and run, all day if we wish, in our natural state.
"I believe the Lord God made me for a purpose, and that purpose is China, but he also made me fast, and when I run, I feel his pleasure."
- Eric Liddle (Chariots of Fire)
Actual quote:
"I believe that God made me for a purpose, but he also made me fast. And when I run, I feel His pleasure. Not to run would be to hold God in contempt."
Eric Liddle, 1901-1945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fKN5VkDAkg
Turtlehiker
05-05-2009, 14:24
I like Fast and Light but I am not all that fast. My pack weight without food and water is about 13lb and if I get that new ULA will be about 11lbs. Anyway I like being comfortable when hiking so I like a light pack. If I am comfortable I stop where I want to not where my body tells me to, and I stop less, unless there are alot of great views. I only have a limited time to hike so putting in more miles enables me to see more. Depending on the terrain i can go 10 miles or 25+
Eric Liddell, Missionary,
Died in occupied China at the end of World War II.
All of Scotland Mourned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtIhI0Wg02E
But fast or slow, run or walk, makes no difference, as long as you do it right. ;)
This is from the passage that Eric Liddel gave in Paris,
on the rainy Sunday he forwent the 100m at the Olympic Games.
Isaiah 40:25-31 (King James Version)
To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.
Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?
Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Speer Carrier
05-05-2009, 14:45
Yeah at last check my pack was 27 pounds loaded with water and food, but I know the weight has gone up some. I will keep it under 35 pounds, but I will take a lot of junk I don't need. Like and don't laugh at me a solar panel from my truck which will be used to keep my phone and cameras batteries charged.
My pack weighs about the same as yours, 27-28 pounds with 3 liters of water, and 5-6 days worth of food. I consider that pretty light, in that it doesn't seem to put much stress on my back, and I feel very comfortable with it. I can't see that I could go much lower in weight and still carry the things I want to carry, like a camera, and cell phone.
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, unless you increase to a weight that causes you to struggle.
Chaco Taco
05-05-2009, 15:26
Im heading out in the am to do a 28 mile over 2 days one night. Got the pack to about 15 pounds fully loaded!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 15:30
My pack weighs about the same as yours, 27-28 pounds with 3 liters of water, and 5-6 days worth of food. I consider that pretty light, in that it doesn't seem to put much stress on my back, and I feel very comfortable with it. I can't see that I could go much lower in weight and still carry the things I want to carry, like a camera, and cell phone.
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, unless you increase to a weight that causes you to struggle.
When I was young I carried every thing but the kitchen sink, and I bet if I had had room for it I would have lol. To be young and dumb lol. Moving to internal frames packs would probably be the biggest reason the pack weight dropped so much. I used to strap all sorts of junk onto my pack with bungees. The stuff I had wasn't even light, I had an old pup tent that I am pretty sure came from the Army, it was a thick plastic like matial with a cylinder for a door and a small cylinder for a window and vent. It was green on the outside and white on the inside or vice versa if you turned it inside out to hide in the snow. The poles were wood and heavy. I don't know how much it weighed but if I had to guess I would say over 10 pounds and probably close to 15 lol. I also had the old down extreme cold sleeping bag that weighed 16 pounds lol.
Tipi Walter
05-05-2009, 15:50
Tipi, here is the flip side to your arguement:
I think 18 to 25 miles is a near perfect number for daily miles walked, whether wearing a light or heavy pack. I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but we live in a culture that seems to worship BEING LAZY. With a click of the mouse or a switched channel on the remote, we can JUST SIT ON OUR BUTTS and in turn develop A RECORD NATIONAL OBESITY LEVEL which in part seems to explain this current obsession with SLEEPING LATE, SITTING AROUND CAMP AND HIKING FOR ONLY 3 HOURS A DAY TO COVER 7 MILES and the light packs needed to do them. I heard of one person who did the 300 mile BMT in 42 days, and all I could think of was "WHAT A LAZY PERSON".
Doing less miles a day does not easily equate to laziness, sitting around all day or obesity. Being lazy and obese does not really apply to backpacking, and obese backpackers who hike 3 hours a day for 7 miles every day, and continue this schedule for many years, will not be obese for long. The couch potato types need not apply and never consider backpacking anyway, so your example is a little far fetched.
I think Tipi Walter is correct in saying that we live in a culture that really loves to reinforce the fast paced, consumerism (buy the latest gadget that will be outdated by next Tuesday) and instant gradification (I want it now) society. I think the real question to ask is why some folks are so obsessed with miles? I've never been a thru hiker, so making miles isn't as important to me, but I hike from one point on a map to another and I like to know how far, so miles are important to some degree, but while hiking any amount of miles, did you see more then your feet for 5-10 hours?
So, why are some folks so obsessed with miles? I've been asking this question for years. The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by punching out the miles. How many backpackers have hiked with people who keep pushing no matter what, just to prove to their "audience" that they have the right stuff and are hiking hot shots?
Every field has the ambitious, up-the-ladder types, trying to prove something to somebody, or trying to look strong while considering themselves to be hiking machines. Contrary to Mags opinion, I find nothing wrong with these gazelles until they expect others to do the same or hold up high miles as if holy or as something to be overly proud of.
And the whole "hiking vs camping" mantra is worn out and spurious. Every backpacker hikes and every backpacker camps, period. Even the hotshot speedsters with the 10 lb packs can only hike for 10 or 12 hours, and then they must camp for another 12 hours. Half and Half. So they are actually camping and sleeping about equally.
I like what Bill Straka, old veteran backpacker, has to say on the subject of big miles and blurred landscape:
"I see backpackers(especially thru hikers who are carrying their minimal 10 pounds total gear and food)striding rapidly along the trail, heads down, eyes focused on the trail 5 feet in front of them. When you ask them in camp that evening how they liked the view of Mt Awesome from the crest of High Pass, or whether they saw the herd of mountain goats, or the grizzly sow and her 2 cubs, too many stare at you and respond with "I got 35 miles in today." Nothing wrong with setting a personal record for distance or feet ascended or number of images burned, if that's your bag. But you are missing a lot of what's there in the hills, woods, and wilderness."
Amen, brother.
As always, I can sum up Tipi:
Hike my hike -damn it!
Any other way is wrong.
I am really sick of this debate. What more can I say? Too many people somehow think there way is the best way..and any other way is wrong.
What narrow minded bull ****.
Just go off and hike. Enjoy yourselves. Why the **** do people have to debate how other people enjoy themselves?
Blissful
05-05-2009, 15:53
What do you consider light? At last check my pack was 27 pounds with water and food, but I know it is a bit heavier right now.
Are you kidding?
:)
Blissful
05-05-2009, 15:55
As always, I can sum up Tipi:
Hike my hike -damn it!
Any other way is wrong.
That is about how I was going to sum it up....
I do just fine with 31 for spring, fall and 27 for summer. And I enjoy every piece of gear I carry.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 15:56
Doing less miles a day does not easily equate to laziness, sitting around all day or obesity. Being lazy and obese does not really apply to backpacking, and obese backpackers who hike 3 hours a day for 7 miles every day, and continue this schedule for many years, will not be obese for long. The couch potato types need not apply and never consider backpacking anyway, so your example is a little far fetched.
So, why are some folks so obsessed with miles? I've been asking this question for years. The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by punching out the miles. How many backpackers have hiked with people who keep pushing no matter what, just to prove to their "audience" that they have the right stuff and are hiking hot shots?
Every field has the ambitious, up-the-ladder types, trying to prove something to somebody, or trying to look strong while considering themselves to be hiking machines. Contrary to Mags opinion, I find nothing wrong with these gazelles until they expect others to do the same or hold up high miles as if holy or as something to be overly proud of.
And the whole "hiking vs camping" mantra is worn out and spurious. Every backpacker hikes and every backpacker camps, period. Even the hotshot speedsters with the 10 lb packs can only hike for 10 or 12 hours, and then they must camp for another 12 hours. Half and Half. So they are actually camping and sleeping about equally.
I like what Bill Straka, old veteran backpacker, has to say on the subject of big miles and blurred landscape:
"I see backpackers(especially thru hikers who are carrying their minimal 10 pounds total gear and food)striding rapidly along the trail, heads down, eyes focused on the trail 5 feet in front of them. When you ask them in camp that evening how they liked the view of Mt Awesome from the crest of High Pass, or whether they saw the herd of mountain goats, or the grizzly sow and her 2 cubs, too many stare at you and respond with "I got 35 miles in today." Nothing wrong with setting a personal record for distance or feet ascended or number of images burned, if that's your bag. But you are missing a lot of what's there in the hills, woods, and wilderness."
Amen, brother.Tipi once again you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!! I wish I could have said it as well.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 15:59
Are you kidding?
:)
No why? DO you think 27 is bad? I will probably cut weight b4 my next big hike, but till then I am adding junk for a shakedown this weekend, although I don't know how much of a shakedown it will be since I am taking all 3 of my nephews lol.
Tipi once again you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!! I wish I could have said it as well.
Just say HIKE MY HIKE - DAMN IT and get it over with.
I am outta here off to do some hiking rather than sprout off about how other people should be doing it.
Blissful
05-05-2009, 16:03
No why? DO you think 27 is bad? I will probably cut weight b4 my next big hike, but till then I am adding junk for a shakedown this weekend, although I don't know how much of a shakedown it will be since I am taking all 3 of my nephews lol.
Should have clarified. 27 is great. have fun!
:)
Tipi Walter
05-05-2009, 16:17
As always, I can sum up Tipi:
Hike my hike -damn it!
Any other way is wrong.
I am really sick of this debate. What more can I say? Too many people somehow think there way is the best way..and any other way is wrong.
What narrow minded bull ****.
Just go off and hike. Enjoy yourselves. Why the **** do people have to debate how other people enjoy themselves?
The Hike Your Own Hike mantra is also spurious and overly played. When people dredge up the HYOH argument, it's an attempt to stifle conversation and shut down a discussion. All of my words here or before won't stop anyone from hiking their own hike.
Using the HYOH blurb to disengage from the conversation is one way to avoid the question, "Why are some hikers obsessed with miles?"
When you think about it, if everyone followed the HYOH mantra strickly, no one could say anything about any type of backpacking, heavy or light. I guess the HYOH crowd wants no conversation and wants silence. When posts get too unacceptable, people wail out, "Hike your own hike!, which means: keep your thoughts to yourself and be quiet.
And the quote, "Why do people have to debate how other people enjoy themselves?" Because we're on a forum where discussions of all aspects of backpacking occur.
jersey joe
05-05-2009, 16:21
Too many people somehow think there way is the best way..and any other way is wrong.
Exactly! There is nothing wrong with hiking 7 or 25 miles per day. Do whatever works for YOU!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 16:32
Sorry Mag I didn't start this to be a debate. I started this so I could see why some people like hiking for distance and some like hiking for the view. I know I just simplified the heck out of this, and I don't want simple answers I want to feel what each and every other person feels when they hike, why they feel it and how they feel it. I started this so we can each share our experiences, and others like myself can appreciate them and maybe learn from your experiences.
Chaco Taco
05-05-2009, 18:11
Just say HIKE MY HIKE - DAMN IT and get it over with.
I am outta here off to do some hiking rather than sprout off about how other people should be doing it.
:clap:clap:clap
TrippinBTM
05-05-2009, 19:08
I agree, I'm not all about light and fast. On the AT, I was sorta sad to just be hiking past a lot of cool things that I'd have rather stayed around a while to enjoy. You know, cool overlooks and stuff; I like birdwatching too, would have been cool to pause more for that. Part of it is my own fault, and I could have slowed down, but hiking with a group you like, well, you want to keep up. I worry I'll have the same problem on the PCT next year, and bemoan that I am passing stuff by.
So, I'm all about light, but fast, well, that depends. But going light is great, it means I work less hard, a big plus since I have a heart condition, mild but noticible, especially on climbs. Glad to get as much weight off my back as I can!
TrippinBTM
05-05-2009, 19:14
Tipi, here is the flip side to your arguement:
I think 18 to 25 miles is a near perfect number for daily miles walked, whether wearing a light or heavy pack. I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but we live in a culture that seems to worship BEING LAZY. With a click of the mouse or a switched channel on the remote, we can JUST SIT ON OUR BUTTS and in turn develop A RECORD NATIONAL OBESITY LEVEL which in part seems to explain this current obsession with SLEEPING LATE, SITTING AROUND CAMP AND HIKING FOR ONLY 3 HOURS A DAY TO COVER 7 MILES and the light packs needed to do them. I heard of one person who did the 300 mile BMT in 42 days, and all I could think of was "WHAT A LAZY PERSON".
Ok, well, sitting around camp on the trail is not the same as sitting around on the couch watching TV at home. ever hear of communing with nature? Not everyone wants to be walking constantly while they do that (for me, I prefer a good mix of both).
bigcranky
05-05-2009, 19:20
I want to feel what each and every other person feels when they hike, why they feel it and how they feel it.
It's easy. If you hike fewer miles than I do, you are a yellow-blazing pack sniffer who will never finish the trail. If you hike more miles than I do, you are a gram-weenie ultralight speed hiker who misses the entire point of being outdoors and might as well be running on a treadmill.
Is that clear?
TrippinBTM
05-05-2009, 19:38
For one thing, it is a very traditional way of travelling, especially over distances you might be able to cover in a weekend or a week. Typical travel in the woods, for perhaps thousands of years, would have been from one settlement to another, carrying just enough food for the trip, and up to a week is a good practical distance when carrying food. By going light, you can travel farther in that amount of time. The other advantage of travelling faster, and particularly under a week, is to take full advantage of breaks in the weather, and mitigate against the risk of weather turning foul. This was especially important in winter, and still is, because in the mid-latitudes where we live, synoptic weather systems are typically 2-10 days in duration, and more predictable over periods of 2-5 days. Going light can also enable a quantum shift in the mode of travel. In winter going light might enable cross country skis. In summer, it might enable trail running. In no way does this take away from the enjoyment of the outdoor experience. It is just a different way of doing it, no better and no worse. The best I think is a mix, both fast and slow, both summer and winter. The places you hike can vary also. Paddling and cycling perfectly valid options also. In many ways paddling in North America is more traditional than walking, though development has perhaps impacted water travel more than it has ridge travel.
This is wise.
Basically the point of going light is this: it is more intelligent to carry as little weight as possible, as it means increased efficiency/decreased use of energy. Evolutionarily speaking, this is preferable; creatures that waste energy are supplanted by those that are more economical.
Of course, what constitutes "as little weight as possible" is subjective. I'm currently working on trimming weight, but am no where near having a 7 lb pack. That comes down to skill level, as well as one's willingness to go without some things (camera, maybe, or a stove, or extra clothes).
Balancing that is the issue of enjoyability. It is easier to walk with less weight, but in camp, maybe you don't have a sleeping pad now, or you only have a 3/4 quilt instead of a sleeping bag. Since hiking now is generally not a question of evolutionary survival, this needs consideration.
Also consider this: native cultures traveled light (except when moving the whole village), but early white explorers went with pack horses and all kinds of gear. Part of it is the fact that ours is a heavily material culture (we're in love with our "stuff"), and also that they did not know the land, plants and animals like the Natives did, and did not have their skill with making the necessary tools from scratch.
I like what a hiking partner of mine said last year on the trail. She had certain heavier items for comfort than was generally suggested. She justified it by calling herself a "thru-camper."
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 19:43
I agree, I'm not all about light and fast. On the AT, I was sorta sad to just be hiking past a lot of cool things that I'd have rather stayed around a while to enjoy. You know, cool overlooks and stuff; I like birdwatching too, would have been cool to pause more for that. Part of it is my own fault, and I could have slowed down, but hiking with a group you like, well, you want to keep up. I worry I'll have the same problem on the PCT next year, and bemoan that I am passing stuff by.
So, I'm all about light, but fast, well, that depends. But going light is great, it means I work less hard, a big plus since I have a heart condition, mild but noticible, especially on climbs. Glad to get as much weight off my back as I can!
Off subject but talk about bird watching, last year in the smokys during one of my million sit and look breaks we had a bird fly to us over and over again. At first the bird actually scared me because i thought the dang thing was going to fly right into my head. Sorry just wanted to share that since you reminded me of it lol.
TrippinBTM
05-05-2009, 20:47
You were probably close to a nest, I'd guess.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 20:56
You were probably close to a nest, I'd guess.
I wondered, we were right on the trail, and the bird lost interest after a few minutes. Either way it was pretty cool lol. The day b4 we got caught in a swarm of butterflies, which with the sun close to twilight really made it something like you would see in a movie. I better shut up I sound really gay lol
garlic08
05-05-2009, 21:21
It's easy. If you hike fewer miles than I do, you are a yellow-blazing pack sniffer who will never finish the trail. If you hike more miles than I do, you are a gram-weenie ultralight speed hiker who misses the entire point of being outdoors and might as well be running on a treadmill.
Is that clear?
Great! Is this a corollary to the "If you drive faster than me you're a maniac, if you drive slower than me you're an idiot" rule?
kayak karl
05-05-2009, 21:30
Great! Is this a corollary to the "If you drive faster than me you're a maniac, if you drive slower than me you're an idiot" rule?
or maybe, if i hike faster then you or slower then you, it means i don't want to hike WITH you :D
bigcranky
05-05-2009, 21:33
Great! Is this a corollary to the "If you drive faster than me you're a maniac, if you drive slower than me you're an idiot" rule?
Exactly. It's the clearest expression of Mags' HMHDI philosophy.
Grumpy5280
05-05-2009, 21:42
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why?
Some people gain immense joy in moving quickly with minimal restrictions (weight) over longer distances. Others just want bragging rights.
Some people like to camp in one place. Some people like to day hike.
Others like to bird watch, bug watch, babe watch, bike, cave, ski, snowshoe, climb, canoe, kayak, sail, motorbike, go-cart, hunt, fish, etc., etc. ad infinitum.
The means that individuals use to recreate in the out of doors (and indoors for that matter) are as limitless as their imaginations.
Some people just have limited imaginations, thus they think their way is the only "rational way."
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
No. Many others possess belief systems based on similar rationalizations.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 21:43
I wish whoever moved this topic to the ultrlight forum would move this back to general since it has nothing to do with Ultralight
"Why do people have to debate how other people enjoy themselves?" Because we're on a forum where discussions of all aspects of backpacking occur.
No. Because you are sanctimonious and have nothing better to do.
Walter just say it out loud and proud. It is what you really mean: HIKE MY HIKE - DAMN IT
Enough for me.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-06-2009, 01:14
I wish I could Hike everyones hike at the exact same time, then I wouldn't have needed to start this thread, because I would already know what you like about the way you hike. Instead, while 80% of the people are telling me how they hike and what they like about it, I get 20% who just want to say their way is better. Oh wait I forgot about the HMHDI poeple, who honestly none of us know what theya re trying to say, it is like the guy who walks into the middle of a conversation about taxes and says "Because Abortion is Wrong Dammit".
Please guys HMHDI does not apply in any way to this post. This post is for people who want to discuss how they hike and why to share their experiences.
River Runner
05-06-2009, 03:32
So, why are some folks so obsessed with miles?
Probably not for the same reasons that some folks are obsessed with how other people hike.
I imagine it's how they like to hike. Nothing wrong with hiking fast or hiking slow, as long as it gives you personal satisfaction.
As to myself, I like to hike as light as possible, so I feel good on the trail and in camp. I typically like to cover about 10-18 miles a day, just depending on how I feel that day, what the terrain is like, or what the purpose of my trip is, and how long I have to accomplish it. Probably the ideal for me is about 12-14 miles a day.
I don't like to carry much more than I truly need, because that becomes just extra 'stuff' to take care of. Shelter, plenty of insulation for the weather conditions, rain gear, an esbit or alcohol stove, food & water, first aid and sundry items like headlamp, matches/lighter/firestarter, navigation materials, etc. and a few stuff sacks to organize my pack, is really about all I need. Well, maybe some Crocs for water crossings and camp shoes, depending on the trip.
Leaving 'stuff' behind lets me concentrate on the sights and sounds around me with fewer distractions.
I tried to stay under 35 lbs and hike about 12 miles per day. I enjoy the few extras I take book, ipod, camera, and my solar charger charges while I walking and charges everything cell, ipod and camera. I think I could cut out some water carrying but after going 25 miles once with two springs dry, I leery about not carrying extra
Wolf - 23000
05-06-2009, 08:26
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why? I understand going light to a point, I am sure most of us would do just fine with a bedroll, a lighter a, 1 liter bottle of water and some ramen. Tie the roll to your back with the food inside and there you go less than 5 pounds of gear, but we don't do this.
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
Phoenixdadeadhead,
I travel by what most people consider as extremely ultra light - less than 5 pounds. What I've been telling people for years is it does not matter how fast or light you travel it is all about what your happy with. If you like carrying 27 pounds and hiking 7 - 11 miles a day, then that is the right weight that you should be carrying.
It is all personal style. What I get annoyed at is people who try tell others they are carrying to much or complain they are carrying to much but do nothing to improve it. That is the stuff that upsets me.
Wolf
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-06-2009, 09:59
Phoenixdadeadhead,
I travel by what most people consider as extremely ultra light - less than 5 pounds. What I've been telling people for years is it does not matter how fast or light you travel it is all about what your happy with. If you like carrying 27 pounds and hiking 7 - 11 miles a day, then that is the right weight that you should be carrying.
It is all personal style. What I get annoyed at is people who try tell others they are carrying to much or complain they are carrying to much but do nothing to improve it. That is the stuff that upsets me.
Wolf
Wow less than 5 pounds. Do you do multi day hikes? If so how many days with such a light pack? What does your gear consist of?
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-06-2009, 10:00
Whats funny is my pack enpty weighs more than 5 pounds lol (5.5)
Whats funny is my pack enpty weighs more than 5 pounds lol (5.5)
Yeah my empty pack likely weight's somewhere around there... I then stuff the things I need in it and hit the trail... No need to obsess about weight... It's backpacking, it's supposed to be challenging...
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-06-2009, 15:25
Yeah I feel like that as well. I first get everything I want to take, and then I weigh things and remove the heavy items I don't really need. For instance, I have a set of multi tools 1 small and 1 large, I weighed the large one and it weighed 8 ounces, so out it came lol.
bigcranky
05-06-2009, 18:27
I wish I could Hike everyones hike at the exact same time, then I wouldn't have needed to start this thread, because I would already know what you like about the way you hike.
Here's the thing, Phoenix Dude: all of us like the way we hike. When I get to the end of the day, I feel like I have stopped at all the overlooks, smelled all the flowers, taken in all the views, made all the pictures, talked with all the other hikers, eaten good food, and enjoyed with great immensity the entire day.
So what does it matter how many miles I've hiked? Who cares? You? Tipi Walter? Why on Earth do you care? I. Enjoyed. My. Day.
By the way, the HMHDI thing is a Joke. A funny. Satire. Humor.
TrippinBTM
05-06-2009, 19:10
I wondered, we were right on the trail, and the bird lost interest after a few minutes. Either way it was pretty cool lol. The day b4 we got caught in a swarm of butterflies, which with the sun close to twilight really made it something like you would see in a movie. I better shut up I sound really gay lol
Ain't it stupid that enjoying that stuff is made fun of? That was one of the cool things about Virginia for me, there were butterflies everywhere.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-07-2009, 00:37
Here's the thing, Phoenix Dude: all of us like the way we hike. When I get to the end of the day, I feel like I have stopped at all the overlooks, smelled all the flowers, taken in all the views, made all the pictures, talked with all the other hikers, eaten good food, and enjoyed with great immensity the entire day.
So what does it matter how many miles I've hiked? Who cares? You? Tipi Walter? Why on Earth do you care? I. Enjoyed. My. Day.
By the way, the HMHDI thing is a Joke. A funny. Satire. Humor.
It doesn't matter and if you had read what I said you would understand that. If you don't want to answer the question then don't, hey if you don't want to play with other what do I care, but if you want to share some of your experiences, tell us how you hike, and what you like about the way you hike then awesome. Like I said you may and probably do hike differently than I do, this does not mean that I think my way is better or your way is better, but you may tell me things about the way you hike that appeal to me. You might hop on one fot for 1 mile and on the other for another, and guess what if you give me enough pros to defeat the cons I will try it. This has worked for me in all aspects of life, and although it may not be what works for others I like it. SO please either share your experiences or................
Sometimes I like hiking fast, and sometimes I like hiking slow. It's all good.
That way I can say that everyone else is hiking wrong at least some of the time. :D
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-07-2009, 00:46
Sometimes I like hiking fast, and sometimes I like hiking slow. It's all good.
That way I can say that everyone else is hiking wrong at least some of the time. :D
Lmao too funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not everybody goes lighter to go faster, I do it (or try to ) to carry less weight.....
and yes, I like to stop and smell the roses
Franco
daddytwosticks
05-07-2009, 08:45
Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot.......
bigcranky
05-07-2009, 09:07
I did answer it, on the first page of this thread:
After a couple of days to re-acclimate, I like to do 14-16 miles per day, and yes I do stop at every spot that looks cool. And I'm not running down the trail. And my pack is the same weight as yours. I just like to walk, starting early in the morning and ending late in the evening, with plenty of breaks during the day.
double d
05-07-2009, 10:55
Some of like to walk all day. Some like to camp more.
But, if you listen to people like Tipi Walter, those of us who enjoy hiking as opposed to camping are misguided souls (soles?).
Anyway, we all know there is only one, true, correct and absolute way to hike.. (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/pdf/hike-my-hike-damn-it.pdf)
I see Mags has struck again with his First Commandment of hiking, which is when anyone gets into a logical/respectful debate about hiking the AT in different ways or in different uses, Mags strikes with his First Commandment of HYOH. Come on Mags, don't be so self righteous, as you have posted on this topic's thread about four different times that you were, "outta here", but I notice you keep coming back with your numereous postings of HYOH. All this does, in my opinion, is sidetrack the issue being discussed. Hows that for my own self righteousness? You have posted some great information on WB Mags, but no need to attack Tipi (or anyone else) for their opinions if you disagree and why all the b.s.tough guy talk when you do disagree?
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-07-2009, 12:39
Sidetrack is right now the question is how do we get back on topic? The topic being how do you hike and what do you like about your hiking style? I have been the heavy pack guy, and when I say heavy I mean heavy. I believe there is someone on this site that while I was at a hostel last year during a through hike, they put my pack on a scale and it tipped around 70. I have also done ultra light hikes, I once did a week with a water bottle, and a vinyl tarp, which I had hanging on my back by a string. No joke I didn't eat for the first 3 days because I didn't see anything worth eating. I ran into another hiker who was shocked at my gear and offered me a pack of nabs which I was only able to 3 of b4 I felt full. Funny thing was I was a smoker back then and the hardest part was making it on only 3 packs lol
pyroman53
05-07-2009, 13:31
I go as light as I can cause my old knees like it better. I hike slow cause for me the best part of hiking is the breaks. One thing I recently discovered is the benefit of hiking longer days. I used to limit breaks during the day in order to get to my destination before dinner so I could set up camp and then eat dinner. Now, I have learned the joys of eating dinner in late afternoon, resting a bit, and hiking a few more miles in the evening before setting up camp. That's some of the best hours to hike...cooler, more animals, softer colors, better sounds. Plus, its easier to camp since I don't need as much water to do so. Don't need to camp near springs, which makes for finding better camping spots that aren't so thrashed from overuse.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-07-2009, 13:44
I go as light as I can cause my old knees like it better. I hike slow cause for me the best part of hiking is the breaks. One thing I recently discovered is the benefit of hiking longer days. I used to limit breaks during the day in order to get to my destination before dinner so I could set up camp and then eat dinner. Now, I have learned the joys of eating dinner in late afternoon, resting a bit, and hiking a few more miles in the evening before setting up camp. That's some of the best hours to hike...cooler, more animals, softer colors, better sounds. Plus, its easier to camp since I don't need as much water to do so. Don't need to camp near springs, which makes for finding better camping spots that aren't so thrashed from overuse.
That rocks, I had never thought about it b4 but now that you say it most of the times I had seen animals like deer it was near dark.
pyroman53
05-08-2009, 00:09
Yeah, for me it took alot of the urgency out of my day. Sorta "don't worry, just walk". Just walk till you run outta daylight. Allows for alot more breaks, and deys da best part!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-08-2009, 00:15
Yep all about the breaks lol
I actually hiked the AT in Northern Virginia with a bedroll wrapped around my body, as a youth back in the early 1970's. I think I did it because I read that's the way John Muir hiked through the Sierras. I don't recall having any problems with it. Covered a bunch of miles that way.
I think this is a cool thread!
From my personal observations, the folk most anal about having the absolute lightest pack where the same ones that were focused on high mileage and big speed and blew by most of the scenery. On the other end of the spectrum.. most of the folks starting out with real heavy packs (80 pounds plus) either got rid of stuff or cut their hike short.
my view: the only pack that is too heavy is the one you can't carry up and over the mountains. If my pack weighs 55 pounds (and it did a couple of times out of town) and I can manage it, than fine, it isn't too heavy. Of course if I can carry 30 pounds instead of 50 and still be happy so much the better.
I wonder about these hike my own damn hike and don't tell me different type folks. Perhaps there is no need for white blaze at all. Just shut the damn place down. After all, there is no right way, everyone does as he pleases, there is no particular piece of gear needed or not needed. Why even have an information source. Geesh!
David
hmm guess I am gonna hear about this one!
cwayman1
05-18-2009, 12:18
The Hike Your Own Hike mantra is also spurious and overly played. When people dredge up the HYOH argument, it's an attempt to stifle conversation and shut down a discussion. All of my words here or before won't stop anyone from hiking their own hike.
Using the HYOH blurb to disengage from the conversation is one way to avoid the question, "Why are some hikers obsessed with miles?"
When you think about it, if everyone followed the HYOH mantra strickly, no one could say anything about any type of backpacking, heavy or light. I guess the HYOH crowd wants no conversation and wants silence. When posts get too unacceptable, people wail out, "Hike your own hike!, which means: keep your thoughts to yourself and be quiet.
And the quote, "Why do people have to debate how other people enjoy themselves?" Because we're on a forum where discussions of all aspects of backpacking occur.
first this isn't to throw down on TipiWalter. this was just the quote I chose. sorry. There were plenty more for me to choose from. I just snagged this one :) so I intend no personal bashes on him :)
haha, but to fullfill the purpose of this thread w/out being too badly beaten up =) (jk) I am a fan of LIGHT... not particularly UL, but light. I can go about a week with a 18-24-ish lb pack... easily; and I've never enjoyed myself more! I take my hammock, silnylon tarp, an alky stove, etc. and I keep my pack (IMHO) fairly light. I stop at all of the balds, rest at the bluffs, take side-trails to all the old setlements, etc. and am able to get in between 10-20 miles a day. Vague... yes, but no day is the same; some days have more "rabbit-trails" than others :). I understand that others like lighter packs, and others prefer heavier packs. I really like JustJeff's article on lightweight hiking on his site. It's all about comfort weight! http://tothewoods.net/LightweightHiking.html I could enjoy my hike w/ a 20 pound pack just as much as someone with a 30 pound pack. COMFORT :D!
As for HYOH, it seems like more of a way to calm down ARGUMENTS... not discussion. This thread looks like, correct me if I'm wrong, it was started for people to DISCUSS their OWN hikes, not throw down on. last time I checked, this wasn't a political mudsling! Calling people slack and lazy is NOT discussing, it's INSULTING!
I'm always looking for something new to try... so I LISTEN to what others have to say about their OWN hike, not just sit there waiting to get my own 2 cents into the conversation. And I understand that HMH...DI is just a joke. I read through that PDF and was laughing the whole time!
So "hike your own hike", but I want to hear ALL ABOUT your own hike! Tell me everything! I'll listen :D! And I'll tell you all about mine if you want me to. But I mean, who knows, we might have pretty similar hikes! Maybe not. Maybe I'll pick something up from you? or vice versa :)!
just my 2 cents... but don't worry, I've read through this entire thread b4 posting ;)
cheers!
:sunPeople just like to argue. Our society has become that. For example, you can't watch anything on TV anymore unless everyone is arguing to the top of their lungs, all at the same time. We,( I'm not including), as a society are molding our children to behave like that. Everything, even cooking shows is competitive. Logging shows like the Axmen is nothing but arguing and cursing. Who thinks this stuff is entertaining? American TV is just plain stupid and worse yet it is what's molding our society. It's sick what's displayed on the tube. And what's displayed on the tube is a projection of American society today. People in other developed countries laugh at us.
That's what our society has become and some of the postings on WB are just another example of it. It's very distasteful. What we all need to do is be more respectful of one anothers opinions. There are no right and wrongs in hiking. My way is my way. Your way is your way. My pack is about 32-35 pounds with 5 days food and 2 quarts of water. I am comfortable with that. If it was lighter I wouldn't have the things I think I need and want when I'm hiking. The good thing is that as I walk and eat....it gets lighter.
Happy hiking. :sun
cwayman1
05-20-2009, 00:20
I'll second you, Kanati :)
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-20-2009, 00:25
first this isn't to throw down on TipiWalter. this was just the quote I chose. sorry. There were plenty more for me to choose from. I just snagged this one :) so I intend no personal bashes on him :)
haha, but to fullfill the purpose of this thread w/out being too badly beaten up =) (jk) I am a fan of LIGHT... not particularly UL, but light. I can go about a week with a 18-24-ish lb pack... easily; and I've never enjoyed myself more! I take my hammock, silnylon tarp, an alky stove, etc. and I keep my pack (IMHO) fairly light. I stop at all of the balds, rest at the bluffs, take side-trails to all the old setlements, etc. and am able to get in between 10-20 miles a day. Vague... yes, but no day is the same; some days have more "rabbit-trails" than others :). I understand that others like lighter packs, and others prefer heavier packs. I really like JustJeff's article on lightweight hiking on his site. It's all about comfort weight! http://tothewoods.net/LightweightHiking.html I could enjoy my hike w/ a 20 pound pack just as much as someone with a 30 pound pack. COMFORT :D!
As for HYOH, it seems like more of a way to calm down ARGUMENTS... not discussion. This thread looks like, correct me if I'm wrong, it was started for people to DISCUSS their OWN hikes, not throw down on. last time I checked, this wasn't a political mudsling! Calling people slack and lazy is NOT discussing, it's INSULTING!
I'm always looking for something new to try... so I LISTENto what others have to say about their OWN hike, not just sit there waiting to get my own 2 cents into the conversation. And I understand that HMH...DI is just a joke. I read through that PDF and was laughing the whole time!
So "hike your own hike", but I want to hear ALL ABOUT your own hike! Tell me everything! I'll listen :D! And I'll tell you all about mine if you want me to. But I mean, who knows, we might have pretty similar hikes! Maybe not. Maybe I'll pick something up from you? or vice versa :)!
just my 2 cents... but don't worry, I've read through this entire thread b4 posting ;)
cheers!
Thank you, I had thought maybe I had worded it wrong lol
I go as light as I can cause my old knees like it better. I hike slow cause for me the best part of hiking is the breaks. One thing I recently discovered is the benefit of hiking longer days. I used to limit breaks during the day in order to get to my destination before dinner so I could set up camp and then eat dinner. Now, I have learned the joys of eating dinner in late afternoon, resting a bit, and hiking a few more miles in the evening before setting up camp. That's some of the best hours to hike...cooler, more animals, softer colors, better sounds. Plus, its easier to camp since I don't need as much water to do so. Don't need to camp near springs, which makes for finding better camping spots that aren't so thrashed from overuse.Very cool way to go. Light, long, silent, slow, and I presume solo. I think I'll give that a shot some time, maybe with some foraging or woodcrafting along the way, but not in serious way. Might be a way to do a fortnight without a lot of food and gear. Energy conserving, mental and physical. Way cool, especially in the off season where you might not see any people.
stranger
05-20-2009, 10:08
From what I've seen over the years...there is no direct link between those who go light and those who move fast.
Wolf - 23000
05-20-2009, 11:28
Wow less than 5 pounds. Do you do multi day hikes? If so how many days with such a light pack? What does your gear consist of?
No I don't do multi day hikes. I go into town just like most hikers - every 5 days. My gear consist of things to make my hike more enjoyable and that is what you should worry about, things to make your hike more enjoyable. Don't worry about what others carry, I never do. You know better than anyone what you need and what you don't. If the weight of your pack doesn't botter you then don't worry about it, if it does then take out the extra stuff that you don't need.
Wolf
I have heard many people who have this exact philosophy when hiking, but why? I understand going light to a point, I am sure most of us would do just fine with a bedroll, a lighter a, 1 liter bottle of water and some ramen. Tie the roll to your back with the food inside and there you go less than 5 pounds of gear, but we don't do this.
Now myself I take a lot of unneeded junk, like a camera, but I take these things to make my hike more enjoyable for me. I also only hike 7 to 11 miles a day, and I stop at every spot that looks cool.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?
Phoenix, it is because they are just repeating GoLite's marketing propaganda. I have a base wt of less than 6 lbs on almost all of my 3 season thru-hikes(sometimes, less than 5 lbs). That certainly is one factor in being able to hike faster, but it doesn't always mean just because I'm going UL I have to go fast. I tend to think it means I can hike more comfortably with less likelyhood of injury due to a heavy wt. and if or when I might choose to hike faster the lower wt. puts me into a better position to be able to hike faster.
It's nice to be able to run through some flatter less scenic bits.
Sometimes it's nice in summer to be able to mix a little trail running in, even if you are mostly hiking and taking your time for the most part hiking all day long. To this end it might be worth it to knock off another 5 pounds. I don't bring much extra stuff even when I am out to hike long and slow, but it is nice to be able to run and enjoy it. I can trail run fairly comfortably with a total weight on feet of about 220 pounds, but 200 would feel really good. I am currently 210, and hope to be under 190 this summer, so including a couple of hours of trail running on a long hike is a nice way to get through some of the flatter and less scenic sections.
Going light might make it easier to bike to and from the trailhead.
I don't have a bike that is fitted out for long distance bike camping, and I'm not a strong biker also, but I think I could stand a better chance of being able to bike to the start of my favourite hiking trail if I went light enough. It's about 70-80km, with some really big hills. I could get most of my food in St.Martins also, which is 10-20km from the trail head, depending on whether I start at the Fundy Trail Parkway, or the Fundy Foodpath. I find volume is more of an issue on a bike also, or at least its a different challenge how to fit everything on without redundant packs, so combining hiking/biking in one weekend and saving gas is alot easier if you can go light, even if you don't want to go fast and light.
Slo-go'en
05-20-2009, 14:25
I don't think hikers with real light packs go much faster than the rest of us, it just seems that way because they don't have to stop and rest as often, or as long. This can make a big difference over the course of a day in how much time it takes to cover a given distance.
I don't think hikers with real light packs go much faster than the rest of us, it just seems that way because they don't have to stop and rest as often, or as long. This can make a big difference over the course of a day in how much time it takes to cover a given distance.
That is probably a fairly safe assumption. A lighter load will increase pace while moving some, maybe on the order of 0.3 to 0.7 mph though and that does add up over the course of a day. Between lighter loads (22 verses 55 pounds), less frequent & shorter breaks, along with increased fitness, my average pace including breaks is better than 1 mph faster than it used to be. Also I stop for for photo ops much more often now since I find more time to kill, not wanting to get to camp too early.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-20-2009, 15:40
Photo ops are where it's at lol. I stop at every spot that even looks kinda cool, but I have crappy luck with cameras. One year i took 12 disposable cameras, a digital, and my phone cam, and still only got about half the pics I took. Last weekend I took my new digital and my cell cam, and some how lost 30 pics. Oh well guess I will take 2 of every veiw lol
Photo ops are where it's at lol. I stop at every spot that even looks kinda cool, but I have crappy luck with cameras. One year i took 12 disposable cameras, a digital, and my phone cam, and still only got about half the pics I took. Last weekend I took my new digital and my cell cam, and some how lost 30 pics. Oh well guess I will take 2 of every veiw lol
My camera is my one nod toward carrying something heavier than I normally like. It weighs 10 ounces including a belt pouch and mini raincover. It is a Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ4 with a Leica 28mm lens and 10x optical zoom. The photos when set on auto exposure are great, but it will allow creative use of settings as well. It also does video with sound and at 8 mega pixels you can blow things up to a reasonable size and they still look pretty good. It's one purchase I have not regretted.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-20-2009, 19:10
Im a cheapskate I bought an 8 megapixel polaroid for 99 cents on ebay, took me about 30 minutes to fix, but at least if I break it I won't get upset. All the pics are stored on a memory card, so even if I drop it off a cliff I should be able to save my pics and all Iwould lose it .99cents and 30 minutes lol. I have another that is 10 megapixels, but I need to solder about 12 points on it and they are hella close to each other, kinda worried I will frack it up, so I will wait till either I get a brave day, or when I break my other cam lol
this is an age old question.
the answer is, some people hike to camp, others camp to hike. just let it go people. HYOH...
I personally carry around 30 (including water and food) for a 4 day hike with my fishing gear, as most of my hiking and camping centers around where i can walk to fish that others can't drive to.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-20-2009, 21:17
I carry a fishing pole as well but i can't catch a fish if my lie depended on it lol. When I was young I stayed in EC for a while and there were a few nice spots that you could catch fish with an empty hook, and that was the only place I had any luck lol. BTW my pole is one of the utra small deals 8 inches when colapsed and about 4 feet when extended. I used to have a larger one that colapsed to about 14 or 15 inches and made a 6 foot pole and used any reel a normal pole used.
"can't catch a fish if my lie depended on it"
That is funny. Was that an intentional slip?
I have but only one question.
My question's simply this;
Are all fishermen liars,
Or do only Liars fish?
Note to self. Bring fishing rod on next hike.
It might be a nice way to pass the time, and is lighter than a violin. ;)
So, why are some folks so obsessed with miles? I've been asking this question for years. The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by punching out the miles. Well, it might be the only answer you can come up with, but that doesn't mean it is the only answer. Open your mind a bit and recognize that different people enjoy different things.
In another post you decry the use of HYOH as a means of stifling discussion, but that isn't the case. Discussion is improving by "I hike this way and I love it and here is why I love it." That is HYOH and encouraging discussion.
When people mention HYOH, it is invariably because someone else says, "If you hike that way you cannot enjoy your hike because ..."
The funny thing is that people who are closed minded and think there is only one way to hike are on both sides of the light-weight equation.
Look at what your wrote above. Change the word "miles" to heavy pack" and what do you have:
So, why are some folks so obsessed with a heavy pack? I've been asking this question for years. The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by carry a heavy pack.
See what I mean?
It isn't a discussion to insult the other person because of his hiking preferences. For a discussion to take place, you have to spend as much time listening as you do talking (posting).
I think we can discuss a LOT of things here, including dogs, cell phones, guns, and blue blazing, if we only looked at both sides and different viewpoints, rather than feeling the need to judge one side or the other.
Well, it might be the only answer you can come up with, but that doesn't mean it is the only answer. Open your mind a bit and recognize that different people enjoy different things.
In another post you decry the use of HYOH as a means of stifling discussion, but that isn't the case. Discussion is improving by "I hike this way and I love it and here is why I love it." That is HYOH and encouraging discussion.
When people mention HYOH, it is invariably because someone else says, "If you hike that way you cannot enjoy your hike because ..."
The funny thing is that people who are closed minded and think there is only one way to hike are on both sides of the light-weight equation.
Look at what your wrote above. Change the word "miles" to heavy pack" and what do you have:
So, why are some folks so obsessed with a heavy pack? I've been asking this question for years. The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by carry a heavy pack.
See what I mean?
It isn't a discussion to insult the other person because of his hiking preferences. For a discussion to take place, you have to spend as much time listening as you do talking (posting).
I think we can discuss a LOT of things here, including dogs, cell phones, guns, and blue blazing, if we only looked at both sides and different viewpoints, rather than feeling the need to judge one side or the other.
Damn well said. I will try to be a better listener as well, TY.
Tipi Walter
05-25-2009, 08:26
Well, it might be the only answer you can come up with, but that doesn't mean it is the only answer. Open your mind a bit and recognize that different people enjoy different things.
In another post you decry the use of HYOH as a means of stifling discussion, but that isn't the case. Discussion is improving by "I hike this way and I love it and here is why I love it." That is HYOH and encouraging discussion.
When people mention HYOH, it is invariably because someone else says, "If you hike that way you cannot enjoy your hike because ..."
The funny thing is that people who are closed minded and think there is only one way to hike are on both sides of the light-weight equation.
Look at what your wrote above. Change the word "miles" to heavy pack" and what do you have:
So, why are some folks so obsessed with a heavy pack? I've been asking this question for years. The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by carry a heavy pack.
See what I mean?
It isn't a discussion to insult the other person because of his hiking preferences. For a discussion to take place, you have to spend as much time listening as you do talking (posting).
I think we can discuss a LOT of things here, including dogs, cell phones, guns, and blue blazing, if we only looked at both sides and different viewpoints, rather than feeling the need to judge one side or the other.
Your highlighted example with the switched words takes us away from the question, "Why are some backpackers so obsessed with miles?" To use your quote, I could just as easily write: So why are some folks so obsessed with forum postings? The only answer I can come up with is testosterone poisoning, that peculiar macho urge to validate one's backpacking existence and self-worth by posting on a forum."
So, you see, switching ideas around doesn't help and only changes the topic completely. We were talking about the obsession with making miles, and the title of this thread is GO LIGHT GO FAST, not, GO HEAVY GO SLOW.
Anyway, your example of being obsessed with carrying a heavy pack is not one carefully annotated or described or hashed out endlessly like the gram-obsessed Ultralighters here on Whiteblaze and several other well known forums(BackpackingLight, etc). How many heavy packers list in detail the gram weights of their heavy gear, are overly proud of each addition of weight, and have a forum dedicated to their obsession, trying to get all others to share in their fanaticism?
There might be a few individuals here and there enamored with the big pack, like me, but never enough to pretend to ask, "Why are some folks so obsessed with a heavy pack?" If there was a community of online folks obsessed with carrying a heavy pack I would agree, but it's just the opposite, there's a large online community obsessed with the UL craze.
I bring up the UL movement because this thread is about GO LIGHT, and we all know the ins and outs of gram counting. What I'm interested in knowing is why are some backpackers so concentrated on punching out the miles? Frosty may say, well, backpackers just enjoy different things, and high mileage days are just one of them. Has no backpacker tried to outwalk his companions? I know I have one or twice. I chalk it up to my own personal ego and quasi-macho desire to look strong. Am I the only one who has ever experienced group backpacking and tried to stay out front and "outwalk" the others??
For solo backpackers, I'm still trying to figure out the motivation they have in pulling 30 mile days. They're not in a group so there's no one to impress(and probably most groups couldn't keep up), it must be some kind of inner urge to notch up the big miles at the expense of landscape-detail blur. I'd just like to know why such miles makes them happy. Simple question.
I'd just like to know why such miles makes them happy. Simple question.
It is a simple question. Complex answer. I like to shave. It feels good. I don't know why. But I do know that I like to get several days worth off my face.
I have no urge to do 70 miles nonstop like some psycho gazelle (ya, you S2)
but if someone likes it, seems harmless enough to me.
"If it makes them happy, I am glad."
Tipi Walter
05-25-2009, 09:17
It is a simple question. Complex answer. I like to shave. It feels good. I don't know why. But I do know that I like to get several days worth off my face.
I have no urge to do 70 miles nonstop like some psycho gazelle (ya, you S2)
but if someone likes it, seems harmless enough to me.
"If it makes them happy, I am glad."
Reasoned response. Better than the DANG IT! HIKE MY HIKE! GET OVER YOURSELF! crowd. The only problem I have with the big mile gazelles is their pedastal worship with the online community, as if pulling huge miles somehow makes them famous. Rebuttals should be forthcoming. Where is the fascination and congratulation honoring the average-to-low mile backpackers? Maybe less is more?
garlic08
05-25-2009, 10:19
Where is the fascination and congratulation honoring the average-to-low mile backpackers? Maybe less is more?
I guess our society just doesn't do very well worshiping and congratulating "average". Good thought-provoking question, though.
I guess our society just doesn't do very well worshiping and congratulating "average". Good thought-provoking question, though.
I assume then your unfamiliar with the likes of Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Parris Hilton, George Bush, Stephen Harper, etc. This list could go on for a long time... Our society is all about worshiping the average...
But i'm not sure why a hiker who hikes 10 mile days would be considered average. At what point do you become an above average hiker?
Reasoned response. Better than the DANG IT! HIKE MY HIKE! GET OVER YOURSELF! crowd. The only problem I have with the big mile gazelles is their pedastal worship with the online community, as if pulling huge miles somehow makes them famous. Rebuttals should be forthcoming. Where is the fascination and congratulation honoring the average-to-low mile backpackers? Maybe less is more?
Tipi, I don't think less mileage is better or worse than high mileage, just different. On a personel level I just much prefer hiking to sitting around the tent. A natural side effect of this is longer days on the trail and thus higher than average mileage. I don't set out to hike X miles in X days and I have often cut a planned day short when I happened to find a spot that cries out for tent and some r&r time. That represents 95% of my days on trail, but there have been times when I chose to challenge myself by hiking a big mileage day, however those are always solo hiking days so it is not an attempt to "outhike" someone else. Those are rare though, mostly I just hike from 7:30 am until around 6 pm and whetever miles I end up with are just a byproduct of time on the trail.
I assume then your unfamiliar with the likes of Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Parris Hilton, George Bush, Stephen Harper, etc. This list could go on for a long time... Our society is all about worshiping the average...
But i'm not sure why a hiker who hikes 10 mile days would be considered average. At what point do you become an above average hiker?
I don't know what an above average hiker would be. I have met a few above average trail cooks. I have seen more than my share of above average snorers ;). I have tried to keep pace with some hikers who's pace was above my average. I've met many on the trail who were above average with respect to being easy to get along with.
In the context of the original post, I would say that on the AT the accepted 12 miles per day is probably a fairly reliable estimate of average after a couple weeks on the trail. And, I would postulate that some of the increase in miles per day normally attributed to "getting your trail legs" actually comes from a loss of pack weight as a new thru hiker dumps gear they find no real need for.
It's nice to be able to run through some flatter less scenic bits.
Sometimes it's nice in summer to be able to mix a little trail running in, even if you are mostly hiking and taking your time for the most part hiking all day long. To this end it might be worth it to knock off another 5 pounds. I don't bring much extra stuff even when I am out to hike long and slow, but it is nice to be able to run and enjoy it. I can trail run fairly comfortably with a total weight on feet of about 220 pounds, but 200 would feel really good. I am currently 210, and hope to be under 190 this summer, so including a couple of hours of trail running on a long hike is a nice way to get through some of the flatter and less scenic sections.
Going light might make it easier to bike to and from the trailhead.
I don't have a bike that is fitted out for long distance bike camping, and I'm not a strong biker also, but I think I could stand a better chance of being able to bike to the start of my favourite hiking trail if I went light enough. It's about 70-80km, with some really big hills. I could get most of my food in St.Martins also, which is 10-20km from the trail head, depending on whether I start at the Fundy Trail Parkway, or the Fundy Foodpath. I find volume is more of an issue on a bike also, or at least its a different challenge how to fit everything on without redundant packs, so combining hiking/biking in one weekend and saving gas is alot easier if you can go light, even if you don't want to go fast and light.Well I tried the hike/bike thing on the weekend. Friday I biked 80km to Big Salmon River with a 10 pound pack on my back. It was OK but I will get a rear rack before I do it again. My butt and back didn't suffer too much, but there must be some wear and tear on the lower back which would be best avoided. After refueling on icecream and buttermilk in St.Marten's and leaving my bike at Big Salmon River I hiked the Fundy Footpath to Long Beach and then hit the beach and walked a ways and then scrambled and perched myself up on some big rocks and made a small fire and some tea and watched the stars and listened to the bay of Fundy and grabbed a nap and then at 3:30am finished the hike to Seely Beach at Low Tide, had a nap on the beach. Avoided bugs this way as the black flies are out. Saturday I hiked to Little Salmon River and did the big hill on the other side, maybe 300m in switchbacks. Took 30 min up and 20 min back down. Met a couple on my way up coming down. They had heavy packs and hiking poles. They were clearly in pain. I am convinced now that this is NOT a trail for heavy packs, at least not for most people that carry them. The hiking poles aren't all that helpful either as there are trees to grab and the poles get in the way a little. Not sure. When I got back down I looked for them, thought I'ld offer to help, but a couple of guys said they went up the Dunstan Brook Access Trail, so I think they bailed the trail. Hiked out the the mouth of Little Salmon River, then back up to the main trail. Couldn't find the trail up but bushwacked to the main trail. Hiked back to Seely Beach. Then it got a little interesting.
I had left my poncho tarp on the perch in the dark. It didn't rain that night so I didn't use it, but I had it out, and it looked like it was going to be a little cooler, and that it might rain. So what I did was put all my clothes on and went to bed under some trees, but had stuff ready to make a fire. I had an unusual kit I was trying out. No ground pad. Laid out one light wool blanket and slept under the other. I had silk skin layer top and bottom. 200wt fleece pants. Light merino wool sweater. Hiking shorts. Wind shell top. Wool socks and trail runners. Alpaca wool necky and wool hat with ear flaps. Brimmed Sun hat. So I slept fairly well until 12:30am and was chilled and got up to pee. I felt a little crampy, and was peeing more than I thought I should, so wondered maybe low on sodium. So I grabbed 1/2 cup of sea water from the ocean, had a mouthful of that and felt better almost immediately, then went back and made honey tea with the rest of that plus a litre of fresh. I sat up in all my clothes and sat on one wool blanket and had the other over me and I was warm enough even without the fire as it was only down to 45F maybe. Cool damp breeze off the Bay, but fairly calm really. So I sat up and had tea and waited until low tide, and hiked back the way I came at 5am to retrieve my tarp and got back to Big Salmon and did some more walking on the Fundy Trail Parkway, just to make it an even 40k hike, 80k bike. My wife came and got me because I wasn't really in the mood for a bike back. Maybe next time with a rear rack on the bike.
So I went light and fast, actually light and slow, averaging maybe 2km/hour on the trails, and 4km/hr along the beach. It's a killer trail, even when you go light. Going light enable me to take the bike also. Maybe if I get into better shape I can bike both ways and maybe do the entire trail in 3 days. That's not really the point though. I think the point is going light enables people to hike more, and take trails they otherwise wouldn't be able to hike without alot of serious pain, and wear and tear on their feet, ankles, knees, and back. Every time I hike the footpath I go lighter and it still kicks my ass. It's just a lot more enjoyable having it kick my ass while there is less weight on it.
I averaged about 10km/hr on the bike ride, for those interested. I stopped for skim milk and took photos along the way which helped my butt and back. I am 6' 208# and carried about 13 pounds total skin out. Next time 15km/hr maybe, and a little faster on the trails too. I seemed to be able to hike fast then run out of gas and hike slow but stead, then me energy would come back and I would hike fast again. I went light on food to see what that was like, and to lose some weight. It's hard to say how much, but after all the smoke clears maybe I burned a pound of fat.
JAK that sounds like a great weekend... But do you really find the Footpath that difficult? I've only done it once and have plans to do it again in September.. I generally carry a load of 25 -40lbs with food and water depending on the length of trip.. I would have had at least 35lbs starting out at Big Salmon River the last time and while it was challenging, I certainly would not call it painful. Overall I found it a very worthwhile trip and I look forward to doing it again, with my usual gear...
I suppose it depends on your body weight. I am 6' and this weekend I weighed about 220# total weight on feet and it felt really good. When I get down to 180# I think my legs and lungs could manage a 40# pack just as well, assuming my back was up to it.
How much do you weigh?
First time I did the Fundy Footpath 8 years ago I weight about 220# and was somewhat out of shape and carried a 50-55 pound pack and totally got my ass and balls kicked, hard, and repeatedly. We hiked in to Little Salmon River from Shepody Road and camped, then hiked to Fundy. First day we only made it to Brandy Brook. I was sweating bullets. Averaged 1 litre and 1 km per hour. No ****.
How much do you weigh?
I'm 5'11/195lbs..
I hear ya though, it is a tough trail. It definitely brings out the sweat on me...But if it didn't, would it be worth doing?
I still remember that first time up the switchbacks at Little Salmon River. Man o man.
This weekend I flew up in 30 minutes and it felt great. That time it must have been at least an hour, and alot more sweat. The downhills seem to really take their toll later also. This past weekend not so much, but a little as I haven't done it in awhile. That couple I saw though. They had come from Fundy and they were really struggling coming down that hill. It was 1:15pm and they said they left this side of Wolf Creek that morning. I think this was their 3rd or 4th day. They didn't look all that out of shape either, just typical heavy gear with all the trimmings.
I'm 5'11/195lbs..
I hear ya though, it is a tough trail. It definitely brings out the sweat on me...But if it didn't, would it be worth doing?I know what you mean.
I was in fairly good shape when I did it 2 years ag with my daughter, and I carried 30 pounds then and it was OK. I think it depends more on total weight on feet, rather than just pack weight. I'll try it again with 30-35 pounds this summer when I do it with my daughter, but I will hopefully be down to 195 myself by then. Cheers.
p.s. We should maybe do it together some time.
I enjoy my time in camp as much as the hiking, and therefore bring some extra's for comfort. For one, I'd never leave the house without bringing my thermarest pad and sleeve to make a camp chair.. I also prefer filtered water to chemical so a filter is always in my pack, plus some tablets incase the filter fails.. Camera and pocket radio (need my CBC Radio)are a must as well as at least one good book...
The two guys camping at Dunstan Brook seemed pretty comfy, and they didn't seem to be struggling. I heard them going up from Cradle Brook as I went down. I stopped a good while in Cradle Brook for brunch, but would have caught them if they were really struggling like the other couple. They were definitely hiking and camping in style.
I've done it both ways. For me it depends alot on my body weight at the time how much more I can bring. With my daughter I bring more and have her carry none. Haven't tried the camp chair thing yet, but I like that idea especially sitting up at a fire if you don't have a tree to lean against.
Question for you:
What is the deal with Fundy Trail Parkway?
Do they have any jurisdiction over the Fundy Footpath?
On their website they say no fires are allowed on the Footpath, which is total bull****.
Here it is here:
http://www.fundytrailparkway.com/en/the_fundy_footpath/
"The campsites are primitive, water treatment is necessary, fires are not permitted, and a backpacker stove is recommended. The use of the footpath is at your own risk, do not attempt without adequate experience and skills. "
... and some of their other stuff, telling you to register with them etc.
I've asked them about it and they aren't all that clear. It kinda creeps me out because they are a 'not for profit' organization, but its not like they are a provincial park or national park. They are essentially a private company, developing as they see fit, and getting all sort of government $ to do it. PM me if you know the score. Cheers.
It seems to me that this weight issue is one of the disconnects between web bulletin boards and the real trail. "Go Light" is all over the web, but when you get out there (at least on the AT) the reality is 40-60 lbs stuffed into heavy alpine-ascent type packs with whopping suspension systems made to carry a whopping load.
I saw about 100 thru-hikers last month in GA/NC, and maybe 2 or 3 had anything lighter than that. After a few weeks some were giddy that they got under 40 lbs (which is still quite a load IMO).
As with many things, when you get out in the real world, the "ground truth" is quite different from what computers say.
My ideal of Go-light is taking care of business first thing in the morning.....:rolleyes:
cwayman1
05-25-2009, 15:14
My ideal of Go-light is taking care of business first thing in the morning.....:rolleyes:
hahahaha! that definitely IS some uneeded trail weight :D!
not at all alone in seeing and doing on the trail. The camera gear is what creates the most weight and consumes a great deal of space for myself,
but i want those great pics!
Found a compromise last year, put a kayak in at lake lure NC on the Broad River, took it to Santee state park in SC ( river merged with the Congeree in Columbia )
This was a great way to carry all that heavy gear, but still had to portage around 8 dams.
peace..
It seems to me that this weight issue is one of the disconnects between web bulletin boards and the real trail. "Go Light" is all over the web, but when you get out there (at least on the AT) the reality is 40-60 lbs stuffed into heavy alpine-ascent type packs with whopping suspension systems made to carry a whopping load.
I saw about 100 thru-hikers last month in GA/NC, and maybe 2 or 3 had anything lighter than that. After a few weeks some were giddy that they got under 40 lbs (which is still quite a load IMO).
As with many things, when you get out in the real world, the "ground truth" is quite different from what computers say.
It happens every year and every time I am still surprised to see the stories of hopeful hikers leaving Springer with dreams of standing on Katahdin carrying silly loads and learning the hard way, or having to quit due to injury brought on by extreme loads. There is so much information available, yet hundreds of people do little or no research before heading out on a 6 month trip with little more than a conception of what it is like.
As an overly anal preparer when it comes to trips, this too alien for me to comprehend. :-?
Many of these were beginners and several that I spoke and got to know a bit said that salespeople at recreational stores told them that they needed an 85 liter pack for the AT (true story). So that's the other side of it. Hikers get info on the web, then get steered wrong in the stores.
The solution? Do your research, then buy mostly from small boutique US suppliers like Six Moons Design, UL, Anti-gravity, Golite, MontBell, etc. I hate to single out REI, but I went to the snazzy new Asheville, NC REI with a thru-hiker who wanted to buy lighter gear, particularly a pack, and they said they were sold out of anything lighter than 3.5 lbs. About the only brands to choose from were REI, Gregory, Arcteryx. No "boutique" packs were on offer, not even Golite. It was pretty much the same story for tents; nothing very light. So there you go, for an explanation...
Of course there's no reason to be limited to stores. Even on the trail, you could call Six Moons for example on your cell and get the package sent to the next town within very few days. No problem. But beginners don't know the gear well enough to choose, without seeing it and trying it on.
garlic08
05-25-2009, 16:57
... "Go Light" is all over the web, but when you get out there (at least on the AT) the reality is 40-60 lbs stuffed into heavy alpine-ascent type packs with whopping suspension systems made to carry a whopping load.
I saw about 100 thru-hikers last month in GA/NC, and maybe 2 or 3 had anything lighter than that. After a few weeks some were giddy that they got under 40 lbs (which is still quite a load IMO).
As with many things, when you get out in the real world, the "ground truth" is quite different from what computers say.
Absolutely right! I noticed the same on the AT last year. With so much dialogue and so many vendors selling lighter gear, I was surprised how little of it I actually saw "on the ground". I agree exactly with the percentage, maybe 2 or 3 out of 100.
Now stand a while on the PCT or CDT and survey 100 thru hikers (it will take a lot longer, maybe several years on the CDT) and the relative count will be way different, probably nearly the reverse. That being said, there are far more UL hikers on the AT by numbers than there are total hikers on the CDT, I'm sure. But percentage-wise, they're just harder to find.
The explanation is pretty easy, I think--the average (that word again) thru hiker on the AT doesn't need to go light--longer season, shorter trail, easier resupply for food and water.
My ideal of Go-light is taking care of business first thing in the morning.....:rolleyes:
Depends on how much coffee I drank in the morning... :eek:
/What's with all the rain in Colorado this weekend?
// I am hiking locally in the rather New England like weather
/// I did get to see my "nephew" yesterday at a cook-out. He now says "Uncles Mags walks everywhere". (His parents may have something do with that. ;) ). He has yet to ask me how much my pack weighs! :D
(really..he calls me "Uncle Mags")
It happens every year and every time I am still surprised to see the stories of hopeful hikers leaving Springer with dreams of standing on Katahdin carrying silly loads and learning the hard way, or having to quit due to injury brought on by extreme loads. There is so much information available, yet hundreds of people do little or no research before heading out on a 6 month trip with little more than a conception of what it is like.
As an overly anal preparer when it comes to trips, this too alien for me to comprehend. :-?
Well..., this is all based on what one guy guessed (get it, guessed) packs weighed, and stories (--- --, -------). Perception and reality CAN be two different things.:-?
This is my experience having lived, worked, maintained and hiked along the AT....
ONCE upon a time, a long time ago.... :eek:
sorry,
14.4% of hikers are under 30; most (63.7% .) like myself are between 30-40; there a few more between 40 and 50- 17.9%; 50- 60 + 3.2%; .1 are below 20 or over 60 and infamous. Any leftovers are in the gray. We are talking pounds right, :o ?
I can't imagine (sorry John) that things have changed so much in the last few years (back east), but then again, I am pretty narrow minded.:(:o:mad:&:confused:
Most - 68.8%- still do end up shedding.... something....:banana
but that's WAY down way.....:banana
from, you know, back in tha day....:banana
when it was AT9 point something....:banana
I forget.
I'll save the percentages of the weight shed over the past decades in another post.:sun
Mostly, 94.3%!, (my opinion!), new hikers are disorganized early on-still yet to discover the joys of the stuff sack. (Guess) that doesn't get a lot of play with- all the information available. (?):datz
If there are indeed 100s who do little or no research on such an endeavor then (I'm) (guessing) there must be thousands that do.:clap
thanks for letting me share:)
Most - 68.8%- still do end up shedding.... something....:banana
Depends if I cut back on the burgers and beer. Funny how that works. :sun
Many of these were beginners and several that I spoke and got to know a bit said that salespeople at recreational stores told them that they needed an 85 liter pack for the AT (true story). So that's the other side of it. Hikers get info on the web, then get steered wrong in the stores.
The solution? Do your research, then buy mostly from small boutique US suppliers like Six Moons Design, UL, Anti-gravity, Golite, MontBell, etc. I hate to single out REI, but I went to the snazzy new Asheville, NC REI with a thru-hiker who wanted to buy lighter gear, particularly a pack, and they said they were sold out of anything lighter than 3.5 lbs. About the only brands to choose from were REI, Gregory, Arcteryx. No "boutique" packs were on offer, not even Golite. It was pretty much the same story for tents; nothing very light. So there you go, for an explanation...
Of course there's no reason to be limited to stores. Even on the trail, you could call Six Moons for example on your cell and get the package sent to the next town within very few days. No problem. But beginners don't know the gear well enough to choose, without seeing it and trying it on.
IMO beginners are better served w/o the ultra light stuff/attitude. Get that stuff later on when you discover your limitations and comfort zone. Yes, over the years my gear has gotten lighter but I tend to carry more of it because I can, do, ENJOY it!;)
Depends on how much coffee I drank in the morning... :eek:
/What's with all the rain in Colorado this weekend?
// I am hiking locally in the rather New England like weather
/// I did get to see my "nephew" yesterday at a cook-out. He now says "Uncles Mags walks everywhere". (His parents may have something do with that. ;) ). He has yet to ask me how much my pack weighs! :D
(really..he calls me "Uncle Mags")
I'm in Texas, in transit, to a highly populated trail back east. Heard it was a good place to mix in a little hiking.:)
Uncle Mags... I like that! He won't ask you about pack weight 'till the day after he discovers WB.:D
garlic08
05-25-2009, 18:51
14.4% of hikers are under 30; most (63.7% .) like myself are between 30-40; there a few more between 40 and 50- 17.9%; 50- 60 + 3.2%; .1 are below 20 or over 60 and infamous....I'll save the percentages of the weight shed over the past decades in another post...Mostly, 94.3%!, (my opinion!), new hikers are disorganized early on-still yet to discover the joys of the stuff sack.
And did you know that 47.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot?:rolleyes:
And did you know that 47.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot?:rolleyes:
Actually, I came up w/ a different number...:D
but I'll defer to you G main.;)
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-25-2009, 19:02
I have an idea, my pack weighs about 27 pounds loaded, and since I quit smoking I gained 30 pounds, so all I need to do is go on a diet, lose the 30 pounds, and it will be like carrying a pack that weighs -3 pounds
johnnybgood
05-25-2009, 19:24
Huh ! I never did understand that new math .:rolleyes:
I'm in Texas, in transit, to a highly populated trail back east. Heard it was a good place to mix in a little hiking.:)
Uncle Mags... I like that! He won't ask you about pack weight 'till the day after he discovers WB.:D
At this point, the only thing he insists I do is read him a bed time story. Little Golden Books seems to be the flavor of the month... I am watching the little guy (he sleeps, I watch DVDs!) this Weds to give his parents a "date night" before baby #2 comes in two weeks. :O
Have a GREAT time on the AT. After all, it is about having fun. We'll let others discuss why their fun is better. ;)
IMO beginners are better served w/o the ultra light stuff/attitude.
I'm not suggesting that people, especially beginners, go ultralight, which can be brutally uncomfortable and potentially unsafe. I'm in my 5th decade of long-distance hiking, and I don't try to go ultralight.
But marginally lightweight ... 20-30 lbs seems doable if we simply pay attention to what we're carrying. People would have fewer injuries and happier attitudes.
I'm not suggesting that people, especially beginners, go ultralight, which can be brutally uncomfortable and potentially unsafe. I'm in my 5th decade of long-distance hiking, and I don't try to go ultralight.
But marginally lightweight ... 20-30 lbs seems doable if we simply pay attention to what we're carrying. People would have fewer injuries and happier attitudes.
I'm sorry , but it sounded like you were suggesting ultra light (20-30lbs) to beginners, even providing/recommending a list of ultra light/ " boutique' dealers in post #141.:confused: A 3.5 pound pack from REI etc. can carry (experience) a marginally light load (30-40lbs) (let's just be conservative and say a 5th of ones body weight) (reasonable/relative/right?) MUCH easier than a "boutique" pack. 3.5 lbs is half the weight of an older conventional pack, no?. Better not carry more than 30 in a ultra pack!!! ;)So under 30 is ultra as under 20 Is insane- no offense wolf 23000!:D
I haven't been doing this nearly as long as you sir, but when I started the rule of thumb was a quarter of your body weight was the ideal pack weight. 160lb. hiker= 40 lb. pack. With todays' technology -1/5th b/w of an 160lb. person = a 32 lb. pack. I'm 130, carry a 32lb pack (1/4 b/w) and no need for that ultra light "boutique" stuff. :)I don't even know my pack is there. I don't know if the effects of weight +- effects attitude so much as mood. :-? An easy walk followed by a poor nights sleep doesn't = a happy camper/ attitude.
What I'm trying to say is that if less weight is your main criteria, then your hike may just be much more uncomfortable, much less safe, much less enjoyable and perhaps much shorter than planned.:( Less doesn't = more as a rule of thumb. Consider weight, yes, it is important- but there are plenty of other factors that matter just as much if not more.
Generally speaking, people carry too much gear because outfitters like REI and MEC sell them too much gear. If you are fit and not overweight, it makes very little difference. If you are reasonably fit but somewhat overweight, as most people are when they are getting back into hiking in their 40s or 50s, you will be in for a huge shock if you try to carry as much weight as you did when you were 50 pounds lighter. Outfitters won't stop you from trying. They will encourage you.
Rules of thumb should be based on lean body weight, not full body weight.
In fact, if you are carrying excess body fat, like beyond 25%, you have to carry less gear.
How to lose your job at REI...
"Sorry Ma'am, I can't sell you that backpack because you are too fat."
How to lose your job at REI...
"Sorry Ma'am, I can't sell you that backpack because you are too fat."
Sad but so very true.
kayak karl
05-26-2009, 12:48
hikers don't do enough shakedown hikes. my first killed me with a 50# pack 2 yrs ago. i learned through HIKING what to change. today im setting up my hammock with winter mittens on in the rain to time myself. call me crazy, the neighbors do.:D
Excuse me, there is some misuse of terms, which has led to misunderstandings.
Here are some definitions:
According to Backpackinglight.com,
under 20 lbs is light,
under 10 lbs is ultralight,
and under 5 lbs is super ultralight.
Maybe they should also come up with terms for heavy, ultraheavy, and superultra heavy (which is mostly what we see out on the trail)?
Excuse me, there is some misuse of terms, which has led to misunderstandings.
Here are some definitions:
According to Backpackinglight.com,
under 20 lbs is light,
under 10 lbs is ultralight,
and under 5 lbs is super ultralight.
Maybe they should also come up with terms for heavy, ultraheavy, and superultra heavy (which is mostly what we see out on the trail)?
We talkin floor up, skin out?:confused:
JuiceBox
05-31-2009, 02:51
Photography is a hobby of mine, so I try to go as light as possible, that way carrying my 6 or so pounds of camera gear isn't so bad :/.
Of course you have to remember these numbers are base out of skin weight before food and water. So for example my out of skin weight package that i'm putting together will be about 12 pounds so that puts me in the "light" catagory. add 5 days of food for 10 pounds and 2L of water for 4.4 pounds and total weight i'd be carrying if it was a 5 days without resupply would be 26.4 pounds. Not too shabby. Ofcourse my body is 60 pounds over my goal weight so by someone elses logic once i lose the weight i'll be -23.6 pounds from where i am. :-)
Back to the discussion at hand about people trying to put in big days. I think there are three reasons people like to go big.
First would be the fame, though for some the fame is unintended but still happens. Some people just have the "hey look at me, look what i'm doing, don't you wish you could do what i do" complex and they just need attention. We celebrate people who can do amazing things or people who are just really good at something. It's just like pro-athletes, they're the best so they get reconized for that. If there was pro-hiking these would be the people who would do it. Unless you do something that people are going to talk about then no one knows who you are. If i hike 30 miles a day every day, someone would probably notice without me having to brag about it. Or i could just brag about it to make sure everyone noticed.
Second would be personal gradification. I think some people, including myself, just like to be proud of themselves about what they accomplished. Or people just like to push their bodies. Some people just enjoy exercise, they live to exercise, it gives them a natural high. I don't see anything wrong with that, it's just a different outlet instead of riding your bike 100 miles or running for 3 hours, or doing squats until failure, some just hike and hike and hike.
Last would be time constraint, so for some this might be a self imposed constraint or an environmental one. In regards to the AT it's usually not an envornmental one as long as you do 10 miles a day and started at the appropriate time. I'm sure there are alot that have self imposed constraints because maybe their doing the hike between semesters in college. You have 3 months to do the trip, if you don't do 20+ mile days you're not going to make it. Or you might have an important mail drop you have to make it to because you have replacement gear and if you don't make it by saturday morning, you have to wait until tuesday because monday is a holiday and the PO isn't open. I'm sure that's happened to someone on a memorial day weekend.
Like I said, I fall into the second group for two reasons. I like to hike, the hiking part is what I enjoy the most. I'm not a stop and smell the roses type of guy. Yes I do enjoy a great view, but only for a minute or two, i take a picture and move on. Example, I actually just went to niagra falls for the first time a couple weekends ago. If my wife wasn't with me, i would have been out of there after 5 minutes. Yep it's a huge waterfall, it's pretty amazing, alright take a picture and let's get moving. Second is i like to be by myself. I'm a total introvert when i'm not hiding behind a computer. I actually moved to Columbus with my wife 3 years ago, i still don't have a single friend out here, i have aquaintences that i've hung out with, but not really anyone i'd call a friend, and that's just me, i like to do things on my own, and move people are d***s anyways. Though to be honest i would like to be famous, i bet if i yo-yo the triple crown that would do it. :-)
Eric
..or some just like to walk. ;)
I guess i could have just said that. hehe
Though to be honest i would like to be famous,
Eric
Well your not alone. I read a recent study released recently that said that over 70% of youth between the ages 12-17 wish to be famous. Out of that group, 50% believe they will be famous... Hmmmm, what does it mean when an entire culture dreams the same dream?
I'm a "it's the journey" type guy, which is why I enjoy hiking, because the entire hike is the destination... Anything under 40lbs and I can comfortably hike from dawn to dusk, day in day out...
Of course
Eric
???????:eek: of course!!!!!!!!:o you don't weigh everything in your pack to determine what your pack weighs?!?:-? You could be ultra light w/ a 60lb pack w/ this reasoning. When people speak of all these 60lb+- packs, THAT IS w/ food and water.... right. You can prove anything w/ double standards.;)
Man , do I have a lot to learn about backpacking, not to mention these made up terms and numbers and how you apply them!!:confused:
Thanks for the info and opinion Eric. I'm not picking on you or trying to start a web war, just tryin to point out how silly these terms are in my opinion.:D
From Backpacking light's Lightweight Backpacking 101 article.
Lightweight Backpacking Defined
In essence, lightweight backpacking involves using the lightest gear to meet the needs of an overnight (or longer) wilderness walk. Many "ultralight" backpackers have a base pack weight (weight of gear not including clothing worn, items carried, food, fuel, and water) of less than 12 pounds. For others that are transitioning to this ultralight range, a base pack weight of 12-20 pounds is considered lightweight.
Am I a minority in my belief that a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it?[/quote]
If you are in the minority with this type of thinking than I'm also in that minority with you. The Go Lite Go Fast mentality is a regurgitation of Go Lite's marketing slogan and some national or age group lifestyles. I'm an UL thru-hiker. Going lite means I can hike more efficiently and a lot simpler. It also means that, if and when I want, it is one of those factors that better enables me to go faster. I don't go lighter simply because I can and do go faster. I would rather go slower because, exactly like you said, " a good hike involves what I saw and did, not how far I went or how fast I did it."
From Backpacking light's Lightweight Backpacking 101 article.
Lightweight Backpacking Defined
In essence, lightweight backpacking involves using the lightest gear to meet the needs of an overnight (or longer) wilderness walk. Many "ultralight" backpackers have a base pack weight (weight of gear not including clothing worn, items carried, food, fuel, and water) of less than 12 pounds. For others that are transitioning to this ultralight range, a base pack weight of 12-20 pounds is considered lightweight.
These are made up numbers and terms on a made up website!:-? A persons opinion- nothing more. :eek: It's not the gospel friends. And besides, who cares what a few pieces of gear weigh when you are carrying everything that adds up to being much more?! All this talking in circles to determine the weight of ones pack is marketing hogwash soaked up by the gullible.;) When you add EVERYTHING up- THAT is your pack weight- That is the extra weight you WILL BE carrying and if you have a UL pack you better be below 30lbs TOTAL ' cause more than that in a flimsy pack is not easier or more fun or etc. My opinion, based not on a .com, rather, oh- never mind......:rolleyes:
So why don't we change the definition of pack weight, to everything skin out for 5 days of food and just leave out water because the would vary depending where you are, if you hiking desert and you have to go 100 with a water supply you're going to carry doesn't of water then compared to somewhere you have a source every 10 miles. Though then you have to take into account people who care heavier food or more calories, etc... So why don't we just handicap everyone with 14 pounds for 10 pounds of food and 4 pounds of water and then in the end your final pack total will be all your gear plus 14 pounds. Then we can all have a universal way to measure pack weight, so i carry 12 pounds of gear plus the 14 pound handicap for a total carry weight of 26 pounds for day one of a 5 day trip without resupply, but you have to remember come day 4 i'll only be carrying 18 pounds since 6 pounds of food will be gone. So then you get down to well, the minimum weight i could be carrying would be back down to 12 pounds if i ate all my food and drank all my water. But say you carry 30 pounds of gear, at day one you're carrying 44 pounds, the lightest you'll ever be is 30 pounds if you eat all your food and drink all your water. So you're right back to the beginning where pack weight is everything except your consumables which longer in the trip you are the less weight you have. I'm not saying either way is right, everything is a matter of preference and i prefer not to have a ton of heavy gear. So for my example if i have 12 pounds of gear and you have 30 pounds of gear, untill i'm loaded up with 7 days of food and 2L of water i'm always going to be lighter then you. So i rather carry 30 pounds out of town then 48 pounds for a 7 day span.
What about if you have to do a 200 mile stretch without a resupply, don't know where you'd be to have to do this, but i'm sure there are probably places it could happen. So, little survery do you want to do.
a) Hike 20 Mile days with 12 pounds of gear and 24 pounds of food and water 36 total
b) Hike 20 Mile days with 30 pounds of gear and 24 pounds of food and water 54 total
C) Hike 15 Mile days with 12 pounds of gear and 30 pounds of food and water 42 total
d) hike 15 mile days with 30 pounds of gear and 30 pounds of food and water 60 total
obviously depends on the terrain but i'd take A. I don't know with B or D i'd even be able to make the miliage needed without running out of food, bump that down to 10 mile days and you're up to 44 pounds of food and water, you'd be dying either way.
Just a legistical nightmare.
I like going light for comfort and make it easier if you HAVE to do big miles for whatever reason.
Ok i think i've been blabing enough.
garlic08
06-07-2009, 16:45
So why don't we change the definition of pack weight, to everything skin out for 5 days of food and just leave out water...
I disagree, because five days of food for you is probably different than five days of food for me. For that matter, five days of hiking for you is probably different than five days of hiking for me, too. Personally, I plan food based on mileage (1 pound per 10 tough miles or 12 easy miles) instead of days, anyway. "Five days of food" is pretty meaningless to me unless you tell me how many miles the trip is, and what the profile is like (PA or NH?). Just too many variables. I carried 8 pounds for the Hundred Mile Wilderness, for example, and that was perfect for me. Most carry much more.
What about if you have to do a 200 mile stretch without a resupply, don't know where you'd be to have to do this, but i'm sure there are probably places it could happen.
The Pacific Northwest Trail has a 200+ mile traverse of the Pasayten Wilderness. On the CDT, Colorado Trail, and Arizona Trail, you have to do some serious hitching or walking off-trail to break up the 200+ mile stretches. The PCT has 180 miles of unbroken Sierra Nevada. 200 miles for me is 20 pounds of food, added to my 10 pound base weight is a managable 30 pounds without water. My pack can handle that plus a few liters of water--not fun initially, but a long trek like that is very rewarding. I can't do it with a 30 pound base pack weight--I've tried.
Ok i think i've been blabing enough.
True! And I think you left out one factor, that the lighter your pack weighs, the less energy (food) you'll need to carry it, then it'll weigh less, then you'll need less food to carry it, then it'll weigh less, then....oops, I think I 'Nean'ed there.:rolleyes:
in short i rather carry 12 pounds in gear then 30 pounds of gear.