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Sir Privywinks
05-05-2009, 16:22
I'm currently winding my way through college and it seems like a good time to start thinking about what I'd like to be when I grow up. Seeing how much I got out of my '07 Thru-hike, I thought I might enjoy working as a professional wilderness guide of some sort.

Unfortunately, finding information on just how someone would DO that has proven needlessly difficult. I love the outdoors, I've taken extensive classes in wilderness survival (at the behest of the US Air Force), and I've logged at least 2100-something trail miles. What I'd like to do is apply my knowledge and interest in the outdoors to some sort of gainful employment.

Can anybody help me out? What kinds of jobs are out there? Most of what I've seen are summer jobs teaching 'how to not flip the canoe' courses to at-risk (i.e. knife-wielding) teens, which doesn't seem very appealing. Places like REI offer expeditions to go high-altitude whitewater bungee kayaking in Canada, and somebody's got to lead these trips, right? Are there certification courses of some sort I could take to help me along?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

jrnj5k
05-05-2009, 16:23
Google NOLS

LaurieAnn
05-05-2009, 16:30
One thing you will need if you are guiding people on trips is insurance... some organizations that provide training also have insurance available and that can save you a bit of money.

What I'd recommend is getting a job with an adventure tour company and try it out. It's one thing to have course and bag nights and logged miles but you have to be able to handle difficult people and create a positive group dynamic.

Sir Privywinks
05-05-2009, 17:30
Google NOLS

Oh my, this looks right up my alley. Have you been?

Matteroo
05-05-2009, 17:49
Good question.. if you find any secrets to making a decent living by hiking, please share :P From the start, you must be aware that this is niche niche niche. I would put the outdoors as a job on par with artists and actors/actresses? You've just sold a piece of art for $1000... or been in a 4 month long production that paid a $1300 monthly 'stipend' or something. Now the desire is to make $18k to...?k 35k? a year? There are many, many, many, accomplished outdoors folk, talented actors, and skilled artists who probably would love to use their skill full time but end up using it as a hobby, or if lucky, on the side and one day maybe they will nudge above and be able to rely on it alone. It is possible, but be realistic/be riskful enough to evaluate/make your own business model that will give you what you want if you don't find it.

Another thought that hiking, generally speaking, can be a little pedestrian (ha ha ha..), many can do it, many are good, doesn't take necessarily much specialized knowledge as do some of the other sports below, plus the amount of $ to charge for it.. ..something to consider. While there are 'high sierra treks' and the likes, $$ guide services are for:

backcountry hunting/fishing (Heavy heavy load hiking or remote rafting/float/ski planes)
mountaineering guiding (Pacific NW has a lot)
white water rafting (and kayaking) at your good spots around the country (every state seems to have a place or two, and then there are the supreme spots like in WV or colorado river, etc..)
NOLS courses (which in addition to the above: rock climbing, skiing/snowboarding, S&R, horsepacking, sea kayak/sailing) - the NOLS courses could/would get you versed enough at a skill to pursue it on your own and take additional education to become an expert at it, thereby offering guide services.
ski/snowboard instructors

your airforce training will go a long way as a general creditial, i feel like lots of woodsmen come from a military background. Peter Krummnerfield (or something) is a survival guy from the air force (i think..) who I saw up here in town. If you have Airforce direction / first aid --

there is always S&R.. while I think 99% of that is volunteerism, praise them, there are surely some paid positions in search and rescue in certain locales (or with aviation).

don't know if we met on the trail but Bucket and I (water) thru'd in 07.. you and I are the same age.. and would both love to make a living off of being in the outdoors (without killing/extracting/overfishing/cutting/mining it).

good luck

Matteroo
05-05-2009, 17:50
p.s.: i have two friends who have done NOLS courses spending a month or so on the glaciated volcanoes of washington state. one has been to denali 3 times and elebrus and is quite a climber (though he works for oil field services industry when not outdoors..). They are excellent courses

russb
05-05-2009, 18:06
Another idea is to go to Ranger School in NY and become a NYS DEC Forest Ranger.

http://www.esf.edu/rangerschool/

russb
05-05-2009, 18:14
more info on NYS Forest Rangers:

http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/41086.html

http://www.careermobilityoffice.cs.state.ny.us/cmo/gotit/titleinfo.cfm?jobcode=1506000

Bearpaw
05-05-2009, 18:41
Oh my, this looks right up my alley. Have you been?

Unless you have a trustfund, you won't make a liveable wage as a NOLS instructor. I tried for three seasons. It's a great job in terms of loving what you do, but it pays less than minimum wage, and you won't get more than 2 months work per year (in the summer) for the first 2-3 years. Unless you know the right people in the main office in Lander, and since you're just now finding out about NOLS, you don't know those people.

The plus side for me is that it got me into teaching, which I now do full time and have summers off for my own trips.

Sir Privywinks
05-05-2009, 23:14
Unless you have a trustfund, you won't make a liveable wage as a NOLS instructor.

Hey, I'm a thru-hiker! I can live off of loose change and unsecured bakery dumpsters if need be.

I'd love to take some NOLS classes, but I have a few concerns. Would landing a few months as an Instructor be helpful in pursuing a career elsewhere in the world of wilderness employment (or beyond?), and do I even have a chance? It sounds like it may be a competitive job to get (a Navy SEAL I am not).

Furthermore, I'll be starting my junior year of college this fall and I have to consider whether or not NOLS classes would be constructive towards earning a 4 year degree. I'm currently drawing veteran's benefits for college, but they're not about to hand me sacks of cash to run around in the mountains if it's not a part of some feasible educational goal. I'm not aware of any undergraduate degrees in the field of 'being outside' professionally.

I think my real question is, does it even make sense to pursue a job in wilderness instruction at all? From what I've heard so far it sounds like a career for the chronically underpaid and overworked, with far more applicants than actual jobs and a tendency to take all of the fun out of being in the woods. I'd love to get paid for being adventurous and active, but I don't want to reorient my education only to get stuck holding the bag with no way to make a living and having to go work as a manager at Wendy's.

Reid
05-05-2009, 23:24
but you have to be able to handle difficult people and create a positive group dynamic.

That's a good point. And the teaching Idea is as well. I never considered teaching until I got out in the real world and found out that it's not like college (you have to go all year round!) so I've been working at being a teacher in the coming year.

Matteroo
05-06-2009, 00:14
Okay there are certainly masters programs in 'wilderness instruction', I think you want to look at "environmental education" masters - which can be geared from anything from being a NOLS instructor (along with other experience), to running interpretive displays at a national park. You are correct, it is chronically underpaid, and over worked, like a low level social services worker (or even mid level social services worker). I'd give some precious stuff to be able to go back to my junior year and orient my studies towards something more productive - so I'm envious of your position. I personally would not recommend gearing off to try to be a guide of any sorts. Unless your father or uncle is a guide and you were raised doing some serious backcountry hunting or fishing.. maybe you can make it in alaska doing that in the summer and odd jobs in winter or something..

there are undergraduate degrees in 'being outside', for instance my gf's sister is taking one at warren wilson college in NC, and it is also called environmental education. I personally do not think, unless one is motivated and has a very solid plan/path, that is a reliable direction to head (it will end up with disappointment). Personally, I think there are a lot of 'harder science' directions one can go that will pay better, even if jobs aren't as common as say.. nursing. Geo-chemistry, forestry, hydrology/watersheds, environmental policy, fisheries, surveying, conservation biology, land use policy, etc. Being here in Oregon I see lots of listings with F&W dept, FS, BLM, army corp of engineers (could get you a serious leg up if you have military status, perhaps).

If you found the right NOLS course NOLS accepts the veterans benefits I think--you could make a good fit/decent fit with your major and get to experience something you wouldn't otherwise do/learn a new skill to pursue at a high level in life (mountaineering, sea kayaking, etc).

in my long winded conclusion, if you don't mind living like a thru-hiker year in and year out, don't mind moving frequently and/or living in different 'provided' lodging around the country each year, you'd do fine with environmental education / being outdoors major. I am sure there are a few jobs that are great, opportunity to make $35k?, steady, benefits, etc, but unless you have a laser clear plan/path for that type of position, you are probably going to be let down. Like the artist or playwrite who made $2000 one summer and quits all else to try to make it big doing that..

i've been coming somewhat to grips with different career path/plans (having NOT had one ever...). If I'm floating I want to have some consistent adventure and live like the hikers who I wonder...how can they be out so many years here and there for 4 months, 2 months, etc.. but thats not me and so path finding it is!

Jayboflavin04
05-06-2009, 00:37
Contact "Hoz" he said he has lead some canoe trips into Canadian backcountry. He may be able to give you some insight.

Jayboflavin04
05-06-2009, 00:55
I also agree with Matteroo....I think you should look for something that you can make a living on, but you should be happy what you are doing! So, if you could find something like a "forest ranger" out west. That would be the ticket
A) Government fringes and retirement
B) Be right in the middle of it all
C) Probably get raises when you are cerified in different things like NOLS and WSAR and Wilderness First Aid

I have considered pursuing something like this.......or I have considered being a teacher like Bear Paws .......summers off! Then you could find seasonal work with the USFS make some money and still do alot of what you love....spending time in the backcountry.

fiddlehead
05-06-2009, 01:35
I think i met the person who had the best job in the world.
Backcountry Ranger in the "Bob" in MT for 6 months of the year. Then spent the other 6 months touring the world. She was going to South America that winter after i met her.
Saw her again on my next thru and she was going to Guatemala.

I doubt it's easy to get that job though. Not too many people leaving it and many wanting to have it.
I believe she said you have to volunteer for a few years to even get a chance.

Good luck.

Not to try to change the thread subject but i met a couple in Bolivia one winter who were carnival bums 6 months of the year and explorers the other 6.
Whatever takes to fuel your passion is how i see it.

LiamNZ
05-06-2009, 01:40
Yeah I think it would be a good idea for you to go the ranger route.

hoz
05-06-2009, 07:19
Contact "Hoz" he said he has lead some canoe trips into Canadian backcountry. He may be able to give you some insight.


Thx for the ref Jay, but my trips have been pro bono and mostly among people I know.

I choose the river, examine the difficulties, canvass a crew and try to make sure no one gets hurt out there. I MIGHT get a free meal at the end but other than that NO MONEY.

I do know that most Canadian wilderness trip guides are independent contractors and there is very little money in it. Certainly no benefits, but then health care is free in Canada...

A choice few can supplement their income by writing books, attending seminars and lectures, building their "name" in the community. Others have parleyed their experience by starting their own outfitting company. But that's a different circumstance.

JAK
05-06-2009, 07:57
First you get a profession. Then you go hiking.

Bearpaw
05-06-2009, 08:52
First you get a profession. Then you go hiking.

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

jrnj5k
05-06-2009, 08:57
Oh my, this looks right up my alley. Have you been?


no but one day....

Kirby
05-06-2009, 09:03
Win the powerball and spend the rest of your life hiking.

Jayboflavin04
05-06-2009, 10:44
Win the powerball and spend the rest of your life hiking.

SSSSHHHHHHH Kirby! That is what I am going to do......I dont think many people know about this. I dont want the word to get out.

Your welcome Hoz.....Thought maybe you did that as a living at some point in time. Just tryin to point a WB'er in the right direction for the best answer.

Grinder
05-06-2009, 10:57
On the lighter side:

break the 1000 posts figure on this forum??

chrishowe11
05-06-2009, 11:10
you can also check out the International Wilderness Leadership School. This is a school that is owned by a guiding company up in Canada. I've been looking into the Backcountry ski corses they offer. Once you complete the training you are well suited for a job with the guide company in Canada. They offer backpacking, River Skills, mountaineering Sea Kayaking and ski and snowboard. You can get college credit for these classes, and you also get real certifications. Avalanche I and II, Crevase Rescue, Swift Water rescue, high angle rescue. It's a little known program that offers education equall to NOLS but for a cheaper price. And you get the Certs. Im a adventure therapy major at Unity College and I have seen Adventure Education and Adventure therapy majors land sweet jobs, my friend josh is taking ritch kids all over the world to go backpacking, canoeing, climbing, like someone else said you just need to be able to live on the minimum and live in "provided" housing. Im not out of college yet but I hope i never have to "make a living" because you don't make anything to live... you just live... right?

Ladytrekker
05-06-2009, 11:24
I'm currently winding my way through college and it seems like a good time to start thinking about what I'd like to be when I grow up. Seeing how much I got out of my '07 Thru-hike, I thought I might enjoy working as a professional wilderness guide of some sort.

Unfortunately, finding information on just how someone would DO that has proven needlessly difficult. I love the outdoors, I've taken extensive classes in wilderness survival (at the behest of the US Air Force), and I've logged at least 2100-something trail miles. What I'd like to do is apply my knowledge and interest in the outdoors to some sort of gainful employment.

Can anybody help me out? What kinds of jobs are out there? Most of what I've seen are summer jobs teaching 'how to not flip the canoe' courses to at-risk (i.e. knife-wielding) teens, which doesn't seem very appealing. Places like REI offer expeditions to go high-altitude whitewater bungee kayaking in Canada, and somebody's got to lead these trips, right? Are there certification courses of some sort I could take to help me along?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

When I did a trip down the Colorado River last year I met some students that were interning in adventure sports.

check out this college: http://www.prescott.edu/academics/rdp/adventure_ed.html

I wish they had this stuff when I was young. Oh Well.

Analogman
05-06-2009, 11:27
One thing you will need if you are guiding people on trips is insurance... some organizations that provide training also have insurance available and that can save you a bit of money.

What I'd recommend is getting a job with an adventure tour company and try it out. It's one thing to have course and bag nights and logged miles but you have to be able to handle difficult people and create a positive group dynamic.


I think you've hit the nail on the head with that comment. Leading people down a trail is the easy part. The real professionals are the ones who know how to handle emergencies, take care of their clients, and leave 'em smiling.

Ladytrekker
05-06-2009, 11:30
You know they have a course you can take called Wilderness First Responder alot of trail guides are required to have. It is about 600 to 1000 dollars and I believe 40 hours. But it is a emt like course to be an emergency first reponder for wildnerness situations. I am planning on taking this course next year.

vamelungeon
05-06-2009, 11:36
I'm currently winding my way through college and it seems like a good time to start thinking about what I'd like to be when I grow up. Seeing how much I got out of my '07 Thru-hike, I thought I might enjoy working as a professional wilderness guide of some sort.

Unfortunately, finding information on just how someone would DO that has proven needlessly difficult. I love the outdoors, I've taken extensive classes in wilderness survival (at the behest of the US Air Force), and I've logged at least 2100-something trail miles. What I'd like to do is apply my knowledge and interest in the outdoors to some sort of gainful employment.

Can anybody help me out? What kinds of jobs are out there? Most of what I've seen are summer jobs teaching 'how to not flip the canoe' courses to at-risk (i.e. knife-wielding) teens, which doesn't seem very appealing. Places like REI offer expeditions to go high-altitude whitewater bungee kayaking in Canada, and somebody's got to lead these trips, right? Are there certification courses of some sort I could take to help me along?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Have you considered getting into gear design and manufacturing? Or retail sales of outdoor gear?

Alli
05-06-2009, 13:09
You know they have a course you can take called Wilderness First Responder alot of trail guides are required to have. It is about 600 to 1000 dollars and I believe 40 hours. But it is a emt like course to be an emergency first reponder for wildnerness situations. I am planning on taking this course next year.

FYI, it's 80 hours.

OP, I'm looking in to doing a NOLS semester after I graduate. I don't plan on working there but it's a very good thing to have on your resumé if you're applying to any kind of outdoor education position.