View Full Version : Though shall not pack a heavy pack again!
medicjimr
06-13-2009, 20:46
Well I am a newbie at backpacking in general, not new to the outdoors though. but I just got back from a 35 mile hike the furtherest I have done since the 15 mile forced road march from my military days. I had a great time but what would have made it even better would have been a lighter load and I mean allot lighter. My pack weighed with food , fuel and water including 60 lbs . Yes the third day in I would say I was getting a bit used to the weight on my shoulders thats used too not comfortable with. The mountains took there toll time and time again. I realize that I may never get down to an ultralight stander 15 lbs or less including food, fuel and water I will be happy with half 30 lbs. Now it starts saving for a lighter backpack 6 lb kelty red cloud now a Lighter sleeping bag 6 lb big agnes 15 degree synthetic. Tent I am happy with 3lb Kelty grand mesa II Tarp maybe lighter but hate bugs spoiling my sleep. so if I dump the pack and bag thats 12 lbs hopefully I can find a 3 lb pack and under 2 lb down bag. I dehydrate my own meals so weight food is normally low. I think planning and tweaking my gear is a fun as hiking. and look forward to all the tips here at white blaze.
Feral Bill
06-13-2009, 21:12
:welcome Welcome to Whiteblaze. Explore the articles section to start. Plenty of help here from knowledgable folks.
FB
garlic08
06-13-2009, 21:42
I see you're at that magical age of 40-something. Funny, that's the same age I started lightening up. For me, the progression was tarp instead of tent, alcohol stove, lighter down bag, frameless rucksack instead of pack, running shoes, and just plain leaving things behind that I never used (multitool, SAM splint, etc). Best of luck finding what works for you. I never spent very much money on things, getting cheap stuff, used stuff and stuff on sale.
bigcranky
06-13-2009, 21:58
Yeah, that's how I started, with a 65 pound pack for mild weather trips. Yikes. I thought I was doing well when my base weight (everything except food and water) got below 40.
The good news is that it's relatively easy to get your pack weight down. It's a process -- and a great excuse to get more trail time! Sure, getting your pack and bag weight down will help, and Garlic is right, one of the biggest savings comes from leaving things at home (a 100% reduction.)
Walking away from the car with a 25 pound total weight makes a big difference in how I feel on the trail.
Hi, Medicjmr. Suggestion for you: look at the various gear lists that have gear categorized and listed individually, with weight listed. Then spreadsheet your own gear. (Get a petzl stove that weighs in ounces or grams - $30 or so at office depot). You'll have a wow moment - especially when you start eliminating things from the spreadsheet that you "might" need, but really probably won't, and can live without. I"m not ultralight - don't have the mindset - but you can easily get total pack weight down to under 30 lbs. My pack last week, with 5 days of food, 2 liters of water (and a liter of scotch!), and the bear spray that my wife insisted we take (our son was with me) weighed 32 lbs.
Have fun!
medicjimr
06-14-2009, 00:28
I have a cat stove I just love using it the canister stove has seen the trail once since I bought it.
Strategic
06-14-2009, 02:49
The first thing you need is a good tool for the job at hand. I use the Backpacking Gear Weight Calculator (http://www.chrisibbeson.com/pages/GearWeightCalculator.html), a lovely little program written by Chris Ibbeson for his fellow hikers. It's fantastic for tracking gear weights and keeping organized for the trail.
That said, if you really need to save weight, then there's only two real solutions: cut the big three radically (sleep, shelter and pack) or start tossing things out. There's only so many grams you can save by drilling holes in your toothbrush, but cutting your pack's weight by a pound (or in your case several) may well take no more effort than that. It comes down to looking rationally at what you actually need and use, eliminating everything else, and then making what's left as light as serviceability allows.
I've always been something of a weight-geek, even back in the 70's when I first started backpacking, but I've still been able to shave pounds off my gear using these criteria and the advantages of the most modern materials. You could look at a Tarptent or one of the other ultralight single-wall tents, for instance, that could beat you Kelty by a pound or more (the popular Contrail model weighs in at 24.5 oz). Many packs are now under three pounds, including some of high repute (the ULA, Gossamer Gear, and Go-lite packs all have good reps) among thru-hikers. The newest quilt/pad combos can cut sleep system weights by similar amounts. These are all examples of what's out there now, both for purchase and as materials for the DYI gear maker. With a little ingenuity, you can cut your base pack weight by better than half from what you have now and never give up a single thing you'll even notice (except at the end of the day, when you're not falling-down tired from hauling 60 pounds).
Wolf - 23000
06-14-2009, 05:51
Medicjimr,
I’m close to your age 39 but complete backwards. Back in 1989, I was hiking the AT my first time with less than 15 pounds with food/water. After 10 years later of hiking on the AT/LT/PCT/COT and a few other places with a very comfortable pack, I’m now lugging around my Army Ruck. I’ve been lugging it around for the last 10 years. I wish the Army would learn to use lighter gear. It makes life a lot easier.
Wolf
modiyooch
06-14-2009, 08:32
My advice to men that feel they have to carry heavy packs is to load rocks. That way you can always unload the rocks.
fiddlehead
06-14-2009, 10:04
A good friend of mine just summited McKinley.
He was telling me today he had to lug 130 lbs up there by himself.
The eternal hunt for lighter gear to lighten your load.
This hunt should never end and you should always be looking at things with the question: "Is it lighter than what i use now, and will still do the job"?
If so, get it and try it. Your pack will continually get lighter.
Two Tents
06-14-2009, 10:14
Welcome to the addiction of light weight. My name is Joe and I have a problem.
I am 50, heaviest pack was 52 pounds, winter load, completely insane! Have found that lightweight = spending some money on the hobby we all love. Use esbit tabs and titanium wing stove, ULA pack, Tarptent, resupply every few days, skimp on all that I can. 30-35 pounds (with food and water) is the ONLY way to fly for me.
I've been in the low 30's with food and water (of coarse :D) for 20 years now. *
My Moss Solet is about 3lbs (mid 80s model)
NF syn bag 30degree is about 3lbs -replaced w/ same model mid 90s
NF pack that I tweak--3lbs- last replaced mid 90s
Never weighed my coleman stove and cook kit from the 80s though I switched stoves to a canister model a few years back.... then switched from a ridgerest to thermarest. :eek:
The right amounts of food and water, clothes and gear are keys to staying light, I think.:o
*I now have a new pack, tent, jetboil and lots of things that my good friends down at Neel Gap, Winton and Alpine donated!:sun My pack- UL is about 3, tent, Montbell- 3, same bag and when I went out last summer that darn pack was still in the low 30s and it felt great, still.
I've never had the desire to try and get lighter, even when it began to be marketed to the masses in such a way, that it ushered in a new era, which brought the rat race mentality to the trails...:(
medicjimr
06-14-2009, 16:02
Well allot of good points I hope to get to around 25-30 lbs with everything. I have to weight till next income tax season to buy as all the gear I have now is new from tax time newbie mistakes live and learn. For remainder I will leave things home I don't use And try to lessen some weight in others I use> I have a 2 lb first aid kit I can tweak starting with putting in zip lock back compared to condura bag. Some of my gear I will pack in winter as I don't hike real far to camp and like to have a saw and axe then. for now I have my eye on the super stretch 3 pack still thinking on I like my BA Air core Mattress not that heavy and comfy. plus packs down small so will be nice when I drop cubic inches in pack.
Jack - Straw
06-14-2009, 18:03
Do everything you can to keep yourself under 25lbs! I got back Easter Sunday this year after hiking Springer to Erwin TN. 340 Miles, 2.5 mo's.
I was also new to LD Hiking and my 40-50 pack kicked my a$$! Sad part was I had a pack that weighed under 3lbs (ULA Catalyst) but then I filled it with a bunch of heavy things.
I was hiking with a guy who had me put his 23lb pack on and he carried mine for about 5 miles. I didn't feel like there was anything on my back. It was awesome. Lesson learned. Good luck, I'm hooked! JS
Strategic
06-14-2009, 23:11
Well allot of good points I hope to get to around 25-30 lbs with everything. I have to weight till next income tax season to buy as all the gear I have now is new from tax time newbie mistakes live and learn. For remainder I will leave things home I don't use And try to lessen some weight in others I use> I have a 2 lb first aid kit I can tweak starting with putting in zip lock back compared to condura bag. Some of my gear I will pack in winter as I don't hike real far to camp and like to have a saw and axe then. for now I have my eye on the super stretch 3 pack still thinking on I like my BA Air core Mattress not that heavy and comfy. plus packs down small so will be nice when I drop cubic inches in pack.
It sometimes helps to get an idea of what others carry most of the time. One of the ways I learned how to cut back was by browsing gear lists. In that spirit, here's my current one (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Estwriley/gearlist.htm). It's pretty trimmed down and I don't carry much that's not used every day. But with a base pack weight just under 15 lbs, it means I never start with a pack heavier than 25 lbs all in. Makes all the difference to these old joints of mine.
By the way, the other handy tool you'll be wanting soon enough is a postal scale. Fortunately, they're really cheap and easy to get online (eBay is always good for that sort of thing) and it makes the whole thing a lot easier (and it's pretty useful when you're packing food too.)
Jester2000
06-14-2009, 23:45
Your thread title would be lighter if you got rid of the first "g" and "h."
medicjimr
06-15-2009, 11:51
Your thread title would be lighter if you got rid of the first "g" and "h."
LoL I forgot how to spell , and for strategic I have a digital food scale now so have been looking at weights
Jester2000
06-15-2009, 15:25
LoL I forgot how to spell , and for strategic I have a digital food scale now so have been looking at weights
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be the spelling police -- it just reminded me of when people used to ask me why I spelled thru-hiker the way I did, and I would say that I was saving the weight of an o, g, and h.
big_feet
06-16-2009, 02:41
I am new to WB, not backpacking I have gone from a 6 lb+ backpack to a pack,tent,pad and bag that is 6lb 11oz thanks to all of you on WB..... big_feet
Homer&Marje
06-16-2009, 07:25
I've definitely grabbed a lot of tips here on lightweight. Still searching for the right tent....i've narrowed down a few tarptents that I am looking at. Right now with food and water I think...without having a scale in the house that my weight is around 25-30 lbs. Last year I carried a 50lb pack into virginia:eek:
My average used to be about 40 lbs...which I learned from my father...who still carries 40 lbs on every trip he takes...with his external frame pack....we are working on it though.
Not that I could not carry 40, 50, or even a 60 lb pack if I needed to. But as someone said before...you'll enjoy the day so much more with less weight. Alky stove is a great way to lose a pound and generally lighter clothes. No cotton flannel pants combo:D god those are heavy when wet.
NO HATCHETS. NO BOWSAWS. NO GLASS BOTTLES. NO 2 LB BAG OF WHITE RICE. NO 2 LB BAG OF LINGUINI!!!!!
Just a few polite suggestions:D
El Toro '94
06-22-2009, 09:50
Not an ultra, as I enjoy my comforts, but something to be said for shaving as much wt. as possible. When I did my thru, I hung my pack on the scale at Amicalola and it weighed 69 lbs. By the time I was in Maine, I was under 30 lbs. fully loaded. With an external frame pack, a 4 lb. bag, and a 2 lb. thermarest and a 3.5lb tent.
The biggest secret to reducing weight is simple, other than raingear, if you don't use it every single day at least once, send it home!!! It's that simple.
My upcoming hike will be using the same pack, but I've managed to shave 3.5 lbs. off my bag and shelter. There's something to be said for a properly fitted external frame pack, it may be heavier, but once you get it dialed in, 25-30 lbs. will feel like 15.
medicjimr
06-22-2009, 11:41
Well I have been playing around with what I can afford now, I have a thin fleece sleeping bag if you want to call it for summer and just bought some small plastic bottles for downsizing stuff like camp soap, foot powder, etc It will happen with time.
I once hiked with my friends homemade kit backpacks w/o a hip belt . Because we had just resupplied - it topped out just over 30lbs OF COURSE w/ food and water. My pack w/ full suspension was about 5-6lbs heavier.
Lesson learned.
Unless you are fully committed to staying under 30 with everything, all the time, it is WAY more comfortable to carry a little more with a comfortable pack.;)
IOW- there is more to comfort than weight. :eek:
And another way to say it: 25 lbs in a ultra pack feels the same as 35 in pack with good suspension. 30+ lbs in a ultra pack feels like a 50lb pack cutting into your shoulders. :(
BTW, I wanted to switch back after a mile, but not him!:-?
medicjimr
06-22-2009, 18:07
Unless you are fully committed to staying under 30 with everything, all the time, it is WAY more comfortable to carry a little more with a comfortable pack.;)
Thats my thoughts exactly, I see some of these ultralight packs with no suspension or padding yes I suppose you can roll up your bed roll for that But I use the BA air core so wouldn't work. I like the REI Flash 65 has padding stays and only ways 3 lbs so that is what I will be shooting for for now.
Unless you are fully committed to staying under 30 with everything, all the time, it is WAY more comfortable to carry a little more with a comfortable pack.;)
Thats my thoughts exactly, I see some of these ultralight packs with no suspension or padding yes I suppose you can roll up your bed roll for that But I use the BA air core so wouldn't work. I like the REI Flash 65 has padding stays and only ways 3 lbs so that is what I will be shooting for for now.
What are you talking about...staying under 30? Keep it under 20 for easy hiking.
njordan2
06-22-2009, 20:55
I section hike the A.T. for one week a year, around 80 miles per trip. My two uncles and I have been doing this for 7 years now, and I love the A.T. and the people I meet on it!
For one week, with everything I need; food, 3litres of water, socks, tent, et.al., my pack usually weighs around 50 pounds at the start of the week. This is probably about where it will stay.
I like having a tent with a floor so I can sleep in a torential downpour without getting wet. I have tried the ultralight bottomless tarps or just using a poncho hooch, but when it really starts raining, I have found that you just end up sleeping in a mud puddle and carrying the extra weight you saved in the form of soaked gear. So, I say always bring a tent with a bottom. To save weight, I do not bring any tent poles and use my trekking poles. Also I do not bring tent stakes, just use available rocks or sticks to hold the corners of the tent down. The tent is a cheap $20 dollar jobby that I bought at K-Mart 10 years ago and weights about 1.5 pounds.
For added camping pleasure I have found a 9foot X 12foot sheet of 0.8mil plastic painting drop cloth works great for making a hooch over the tent with room to sit outside and cook without getting soaked. This weighs less than 4ounces.
So my tent setup weighs less than 2 pounds and is 100% waterproof. Heck, I even kinda like it when it rains. The sound of rain hitting the hooch or tent is relaxing when one is inside it warm and dry.
Also a tripod chair to sit on is a must. Mine weighs less than 1 pound. It keeps your rump out of the mud. Diaper rash sucks! It also saves my knees when drawing water.
One thing no hiker should carry is an i-pod! (IMHO) It is good to just be stimulated by the hike, and if you want, (or can), turn on the radio in your head! I have found that station always plays the songs I want as many times as I want and the batteries never run down, not to mention it weighs nothing!
Homer&Marje
06-22-2009, 21:11
What are you talking about...staying under 30? Keep it under 20 for easy hiking.
Under 30 is still easy for most. I go jogging with my 40lb punching bag in my old REI bag which weighs 6lbs alone.
Makes hiking with 20-30,33? not so bad.
medicjimr
06-22-2009, 22:18
Ya I am the same way I like a tent me a sketters don,t get along. I like the plastic drop cloth idea lighter than my 8x10 poly and cheaper than sil nylon
other than raingear, if you don't use it every single day at least once, send it home!!! It's that simple.I'm not sure it's that simple. There are things you could use a couple times every day, like a camp chair to sit on every night and for breaks, that you don't need. Also things you don't use every day, like a first aid kit, gloves and watch cap in shoulder season, bear bag, batteries, etc that you might want to bring along.
There is no "here is how it is done" to lightening a load, because we all don't have the same priorites, needs, threshold of discomfort, etc.
It's a constant balancing act.
As someone noted above, about age 40 or so, we begin to take going lighter more seriously as knees protest. At the same time, arthritic old bones require a thicker (heavier) sleeping pad.
River Runner
06-24-2009, 01:36
I'm not sure it's that simple. There are things you could use a couple times every day, like a camp chair to sit on every night and for breaks, that you don't need. Also things you don't use every day, like a first aid kit, gloves and watch cap in shoulder season, bear bag, batteries, etc that you might want to bring along.
There is no "here is how it is done" to lightening a load, because we all don't have the same priorites, needs, threshold of discomfort, etc.
It's a constant balancing act.
As someone noted above, about age 40 or so, we begin to take going lighter more seriously as knees protest. At the same time, arthritic old bones require a thicker (heavier) sleeping pad.
Good points Frosty. But I will say leaving a camp chair home is a pretty easy way to reduce pack weight.
A first aid kit needs to be carried, but with the right mindset and some wilderness first aid training, can be reduced substantially over what some hikers carry.
Light weight gloves and a light hat are in my kit almost year round - my sleep system is pretty light and I often sleep in the hat with my quilt even in the summer months. The gloves do double duty as pot holders. The hat sometimes does double duty as a cozy for my freezer bag meals.
Beyond emergency items, essentials like bear bag cord and extra batteries that you may not use every day, and enough warm clothing for a bit lower than the coldest conditions expected, I think El Toro has it about right. Even with some of the essentials you can lighten up a bit - you probably won't need over 40-45' of cord, more than one set of extra batteries, etc.
Switch to a high quality photon light and save weight on both the light and batteries. Choose the tiniest bottle possible to repackage camp soap - you only need a drop or two, if at all. I use a breath savers dropper bottle, and always end up bringing back extra from a section hike. Take a few pages of Rite In Rain paper for journaling instead of a whole journal. Use an MSR snow stake instead of the orange plastic trowel. Use a small bandana instead of a pack towel. Try to make things as multi-use as possible, within reason.
Took the family on an overnight backpacking trip for vacation. I carried 5 liters of water, food for two, two down quilts and pads, a lantern, and both a one man and a three man tent.
I broke all the UL rules
Homer&Marje
06-24-2009, 08:27
Took the family on an overnight backpacking trip for vacation. I carried 5 liters of water, food for two, two down quilts and pads, a lantern, and both a one man and a three man tent.
I broke all the UL rules
Where did you fit the quilts? That would take up all the space in my pack I think:D
Took the family on an overnight backpacking trip for vacation. I carried 5 liters of water, food for two, two down quilts and pads, a lantern, and both a one man and a three man tent.
I broke all the UL rules
Where did you fit the quilts? That would take up all the space in my pack I think:D
Carried both my wife's pack & my pack
Switching to lightweight gear (17 lb packed weight before food and water) gets me out on the trails and looking forward to the walking. That's not ultralight, but it's light enough to make the whole experience enjoyable. In the "good old days" when I was younger and more foolish, I thought I needed 50 lbs or so to get through the weekend.
I'm not going back to the old days. No way!!
Cool AT Breeze
07-23-2009, 22:29
Keep in mind it costs about 100.00 a pound to replace gear in your pack.That is if you are replacing it with light weight quality gear.
Not an ultra, as I enjoy my comforts, but something to be said for shaving as much wt. as possible. When I did my thru, I hung my pack on the scale at Amicalola and it weighed 69 lbs. By the time I was in Maine, I was under 30 lbs. fully loaded. With an external frame pack, a 4 lb. bag, and a 2 lb. thermarest and a 3.5lb tent.
The biggest secret to reducing weight is simple, other than raingear, if you don't use it every single day at least once, send it home!!! It's that simple.
My upcoming hike will be using the same pack, but I've managed to shave 3.5 lbs. off my bag and shelter. There's something to be said for a properly fitted external frame pack, it may be heavier, but once you get it dialed in, 25-30 lbs. will feel like 15.
My frameless pack carries 20-25 lbs. very comfortably. It just happens to fit me perfectly and I know how to pack it. Starting out at one pound for a pack and closed cell "frame" automatically cuts off about 3lbs for a frame pack. The only true advantages to a frame pack is that 1) It allows for better ventilation on your back, and 2) It makes a much better backrest in camp. I used them for years, and might again if I had to hike for weeks in hot weather. Oh, they also allow mosquitoes to bite your back through and between the mesh back bands (but Deet will fix that).
Now the guy who's using an army rucksack has some 'splainin' to do. :D
Jester2000
07-24-2009, 13:43
Unless you are fully committed to staying under 30 with everything, all the time, it is WAY more comfortable to carry a little more with a comfortable pack.;)
At my store I usually tell people the pack itself is the last thing they should replace when working towards beng lightweight. This seems counterintuitive because a) replacing the pack itself seems to be a great way to lose pounds rather than just ounces and b) I sell packs for a living.
But I think it's sound advice for the reason stated above -- until you get the rest of your gear lighter, switching to a frameless pack can be uncomfortable to the point that folks might abandon the whole idea of going lightweight.
Now the guy who's using an army rucksack has some 'splainin' to do. :D
I think part of the explanation may involve the fact that Wolf is in the Army.
Blue Jay
07-24-2009, 19:47
My advice to men that feel they have to carry heavy packs is to load rocks. That way you can always unload the rocks.
My advice to men who have to say the exact same things over and over and over and over and over about lowering pack weight which in itself is hardly rocket science, please try another topic (insert the beating a dead horse video).
Blue Jay
07-24-2009, 19:50
until you get the rest of your gear lighter, switching to a frameless pack can be uncomfortable to the point that folks might abandon the whole idea of going lightweight.
WHAT and go back to hiking their own hike and not converting to the new religion, oh the horror.
Blue Jay
07-24-2009, 19:56
Took the family on an overnight backpacking trip for vacation. I carried 5 liters of water, food for two, two down quilts and pads, a lantern, and both a one man and a three man tent.
I broke all the UL rules
Egads, I was going to inset some sarcasm here but it would be too heavy.
MikenSalem
07-24-2009, 23:22
If I like it it's coming along, if it costs more pain than it's worth then it stays behind. When I can't carry enough to stay overnight I'll be a day hiker. In the meantime if I can be happy with a lighter replacement then lets be happy. When hiking no longer makes me happy :datz I'll sell my lightweight gear on eBay and give the heavy stuff to people who'll quit hiking and not mess up my woods. Course :banana I won't care about that by then.
BitBucket
07-24-2009, 23:40
I remember my first trip on the AT weighed out at about 54 pounds, with 3 days food/water...I'm now down to about 32 with 5 days food/water...I could probably shed another 3-4 lbs w/o too much trouble...
It's not really hard to get rid of stuff you don't need...every extra lb. you carry in your pack (or around your waist) is about 4 lbs of extra force on your knees...it doesn't take long to add up to a lot of wear and tear...
boarstone
07-25-2009, 08:50
Well I have been playing around with what I can afford now, I have a thin fleece sleeping bag if you want to call it for summer and just bought some small plastic bottles for downsizing stuff like camp soap, foot powder, etc It will happen with time.
Look in the kitchen under: spice cabinet. Reuse the plastic spice bottles when empty for scaling down. Saves buying them over again>empty.:)
Jester2000
07-25-2009, 22:43
WHAT and go back to hiking their own hike and not converting to the new religion, oh the horror.
Your snarkiness aside, I find it amusing that someone choosing, of their own volition, to try and get lighter is not "hiking their own hike" in your eyes.
For informational purposes, on my PCT thru-hike last year I carried a pack that was at least 50 lbs.
This weight is a guess, because I never weigh my pack, and is based on the guesses of friends who would lift it or try it on.
In the store I work in I don't try to convince people that they should do what I do, but I do try to help them figure out how to do what they want to do. Last week I shook down a guy's pack and helped him lighten it by 4 lbs without him having to buy different gear.
I suppose I could tell my customers that they're morons for "converting to the new religion." On the other hand, that would not only be bad for business, it would make me kind of an *******.
Your snarkiness aside, I find it amusing that someone choosing, of their own volition, to try and get lighter is not "hiking their own hike" in your eyes.
For informational purposes, on my PCT thru-hike last year I carried a pack that was at least 50 lbs.
This weight is a guess, because I never weigh my pack, and is based on the guesses of friends who would lift it or try it on.
In the store I work in I don't try to convince people that they should do what I do, but I do try to help them figure out how to do what they want to do. Last week I shook down a guy's pack and helped him lighten it by 4 lbs without him having to buy different gear.
I suppose I could tell my customers that they're morons for "converting to the new religion." On the other hand, that would not only be bad for business, it would make me kind of an *******.
This post is just another great example of why NOT to mess w/ Jester!:D
Blue Jay
07-27-2009, 10:52
Your snarkiness aside, I find it amusing that someone choosing, of their own volition, to try and get lighter is not "hiking their own hike" in your eyes.
You missed my point completely, I'm also trying to lighten my pack. It's the constant, unrelenting, ultralight proselytizing about how other people should hike. There was a group out last year that was actually weighing other peoples packs. Even that would be ok if your religion actually came up with something new or a new way to lighten our load. It's the same old mouldy crap repeated over and over. heavy bad, light good, OK we get it now go away.
Blue Jay
07-27-2009, 11:00
And another way to say it: 25 lbs in a ultra pack feels the same as 35 in pack with good suspension. 30+ lbs in a ultra pack feels like a 50lb pack cutting into your shoulders.
This post is yet another great example of extreme BS and not even ultralight BS. This is carrying a frying pan BS.
Jester2000
07-27-2009, 14:03
WHAT and go back to hiking their own hike and not converting to the new religion, oh the horror.
You missed my point completely, I'm also trying to lighten my pack. It's the constant, unrelenting, ultralight proselytizing about how other people should hike. There was a group out last year that was actually weighing other peoples packs. Even that would be ok if your religion actually came up with something new or a new way to lighten our load. It's the same old mouldy crap repeated over and over. heavy bad, light good, OK we get it now go away.
Well, if that's your point I totally agree with you. On the other hand, if THAT'S your point, I can only wonder why you made your point utilizing a quote that had little to do with your point from a person that doesn't proselytize about packweight.
medicjimr
07-27-2009, 14:13
Can,t we all just get along. We can pack our on pack and hike are on hike.
daddytwosticks
07-27-2009, 16:22
I fill a bag with stuff, put it on my back, and walk through the woods. What do you do differently? :)
Blue Jay
07-27-2009, 17:07
I fill a bag with stuff, put it on my back, and walk through the woods. What do you do differently? :)
Nothing, I do believe you've got it.
In the store I work in I don't try to convince people that they should do what I do, but I do try to help them figure out how to do what they want to do. Last week I shook down a guy's pack and helped him lighten it by 4 lbs without him having to buy different gear.
You obviously don't work at REI! :D
Their mottos are: "Load em up!" and "Expand the sale!"
Jester2000
07-27-2009, 19:43
You obviously don't work at REI! :D
Their mottos are: "Load em up!" and "Expand the sale!"
Nope. I work at The Outfitter at Harpers Ferry.
I may have to get in touch with you with some questions about the AZT some time if you don't mind.
A hammock has mande all the difference in the world to me for going form average to UL.
Keep in mind it costs about 100.00 a pound to replace gear in your pack.That is if you are replacing it with light weight quality gear.
No, not true. Read SGT Rock's article Cheap Gear – How to Dirt Bag and Deal Shop Like a Professional (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678).
Much of my light gear is homemade or home altered. I made my own balaklava and arm warmers. I made my own lid to my MSR Titan pot. It's much lighter than the lid that comes with the pot. I made a bowl from a yogurt container I would have otherwise thrown out. Made my own stove and windscreen, too. Some of my clothes are from thrift stores. My Golite umbrella was found in the trash. My Gossamer Gear backpack was on sale for only $80. I have another, smaller one from ULA that was on sale for only $40. I made a female urinary device out of a bottle of Wishbone salad dressing. I dug through the trash and the junk drawers to find small containers to repackage items.
Favorite places to find gear include the thrift shops, the dollar store, hardware store, craft store, the trash, the street. Ultralight gear is everywhere, except perhaps at REI.
bigcranky
09-18-2009, 08:27
sbhikes is right. Since I started backpacking in 1992, my pack weight has gone from 65 pounds to less than twenty -- does anyone seriously think it cost me over $4500 to do that?
More than half of the weight savings was free -- it came from *not* bringing unnecessary cr@p. Most of the rest was cheap -- a combination of cheap gear, homemade gear, and/or dirtbagging. The only piece of gear that I own that was *more* expensive in its lightweight version is my Western Mountaineering down sleeping bag. Everything else -- my pack, my tarps and tarptents, my cook kit, clothing, etc. -- all of it was cheaper than the equivalent quality "heavy" traditional gear.
I do like high quality clothing, but I wait until the end-of-season sale, when it's almost always half off. My winter bag was a WM Antelope on 40% off sale at the local outfitter. If I can't find something locally, there is always Sierra Trading Post and Campmor super sales.
Of course you can spend a gazillion dollars on bleeding-edge high-tech gear made from fibers used on the space shuttle, or something. (See backpackinglight.com for many examples of very high quality gear, priced to match.) The point is, that's hardly required to go light.
Tipi Walter
09-18-2009, 09:44
My advice to men that feel they have to carry heavy packs is to load rocks. That way you can always unload the rocks.
Why rocks? If you want to carry a heavy pack just load it up with fruit and books and eggs and a little radio and a beefy thermarest and some candles for the winter and don't forget the books. Like the rocks, the candles will burn down, the books will be read and burned page by page, the apples and pears and avocados will be eaten and all will get lighter. It's alright to start heavy.
A good friend of mine just summited McKinley.
He was telling me today he had to lug 130 lbs up there by himself.
The eternal hunt for lighter gear to lighten your load.
This hunt should never end and you should always be looking at things with the question: "Is it lighter than what i use now, and will still do the job"?
If so, get it and try it. Your pack will continually get lighter.
I wonder what the ULers here would think of lugging a 130lb pack up a mountain? If they had the opportunity to hit Denali and were confronted with this kind of weight, would they just not go?
Welcome to the addiction of light weight. My name is Joe and I have a problem.
It's not the attempts to lighten our loads that rankles and disturbs, it's the heavy handed born-again ultralighters who keep attempting to lead us into a future of flimsy nothingness and a preoccupation with grams.
Do everything you can to keep yourself under 25lbs! I got back Easter Sunday this year after hiking Springer to Erwin TN. 340 Miles, 2.5 mo's.
I was also new to LD Hiking and my 40-50 pack kicked my a$$! Sad part was I had a pack that weighed under 3lbs (ULA Catalyst) but then I filled it with a bunch of heavy things.
I was hiking with a guy who had me put his 23lb pack on and he carried mine for about 5 miles. I didn't feel like there was anything on my back. It was awesome. Lesson learned. Good luck, I'm hooked! JS
When you say to do everything you can to keep yourself under 25lbs, you're throwing out a random number that has nothing to do with real-world trip lengths or mountains climbed(like Denali). Is this 25lb number for 15 days? For one night? For a week at below zero?
Not an ultra, as I enjoy my comforts, but something to be said for shaving as much wt. as possible. When I did my thru, I hung my pack on the scale at Amicalola and it weighed 69 lbs. By the time I was in Maine, I was under 30 lbs. fully loaded. With an external frame pack, a 4 lb. bag, and a 2 lb. thermarest and a 3.5lb tent.
The biggest secret to reducing weight is simple, other than raingear, if you don't use it every single day at least once, send it home!!! It's that simple.
My upcoming hike will be using the same pack, but I've managed to shave 3.5 lbs. off my bag and shelter. There's something to be said for a properly fitted external frame pack, it may be heavier, but once you get it dialed in, 25-30 lbs. will feel like 15.
As others have said, the common backpacker's truism of "if you don't use it every day, don't bring it", is nonsense. I went out for a 10 day trip last year and brought my tent rainfly and it didn't rain until the last day. Should I have left the fly at home? I take my goretex rain jacket out every trip and sometimes never use it but when I do it's needed as I'm walking in a cold rain and must stay warm but not use my warming midlayers and so I can keep them dry by hiking in a wet t-shirt under the jacket. The jacket keeps me warm but it sure isn't used every day. Or how about the pain meds in the first aid kit? Or the extra lexan spoon when the other one breaks? Or the MSR stove tool? Or the ripstop patches? Or the extra tent stakes which might be needed atop an open bald in a high wind? Or might not if I'm camped on the low ground?
I like having a tent with a floor so I can sleep in a torential downpour without getting wet. I have tried the ultralight bottomless tarps or just using a poncho hooch, but when it really starts raining, I have found that you just end up sleeping in a mud puddle and carrying the extra weight you saved in the form of soaked gear. So, I say always bring a tent with a bottom.
There's a lot of truth in this statement. You gotta have something with a floor when the tentsite fills with water, and most sites will if it rains hard enough. Not all tent floors will keep out a little lake, but some will and a heck of a lot better than tarps and some lightweight tents.
WHAT and go back to hiking their own hike and not converting to the new religion, oh the horror.
Well, I agree but I can't get too vocal as this is their thread and they've allocated a whole forum to the UL craze.
You missed my point completely, I'm also trying to lighten my pack. It's the constant, unrelenting, ultralight proselytizing about how other people should hike. There was a group out last year that was actually weighing other peoples packs. Even that would be ok if your religion actually came up with something new or a new way to lighten our load. It's the same old mouldy crap repeated over and over. heavy bad, light good, OK we get it now go away.
Hey, Blue Jay, we might have some things in common! I like your blurb, "constant, unrelenting, ultralight proselytizing" and the "heavy bad, light good" stuff. But by writing this stuff on their forum, you've entered into their holy inner sanctum. Be Warned!
I've always thought Everest ought to be done as a day hike. In any case, we're not talking about climbing Denali. We're taking about going for a walk in the forest. It can be done without carrying the space shuttle on your back. But if you'd rather do it that way, you are free to do so.
Blue Jay
09-19-2009, 20:18
Hey, Blue Jay, we might have some things in common! I like your blurb, "constant, unrelenting, ultralight proselytizing" and the "heavy bad, light good" stuff. But by writing this stuff on their forum, you've entered into their holy inner sanctum. Be Warned!
Not worried, unlike other religious zealots, they mostly just enjoy bragging about estimates of weight and extremity lenght.
Chaplain
09-19-2009, 22:54
Well, I am 56 and my goal is to thru hike AT when I'm 60. I have done a lot of hiking and climbing over the years. All my efforts priorities right now when I hike are with the AT in mind. I am slowly replacing heavier stuff with lightweight stuff. I am dropping off stuff and re-thinking my hiking philosophy about the weight I carry. I don't want to wait until Harpers Ferry or somewhere to do this. I want to start out as light (AND prepared) as possible and MAKE IT ALL THE WAY TO MAINE!!!!! :-)
Tipi Walter,
"It's not the attempts to lighten our loads that rankles and disturbs, it's the heavy handed born-again ultralighters who keep attempting to lead us into a future of flimsy nothingness and a preoccupation with grams.".
Does it not strike you as odd that you are saying that in the Ultralite section ?
Are you not the one that implies that anyone not using your "expedition " gear is going to die or is just plain stupid ?
Who is really preaching here ?
Seems to me that many don't hike because of not been able or willing to carry heavy loads. On the converse , most of the light weight hikers I met recently in WA were older folk that can and do hike (and have fun, look that word up...) because they have lighter loads. And yes I met many with huge packs, none of them appeared to be enjoying themselves (enjoy :look that up too)
One guy (57 year old) did 3-5 days at a time, covering 20-30 miles a day with a 30 L or so pack. He eats just bars (from Walmart as he told us several times). Not my cup of tea but HIS cup of tea. And that is fine with me ....
No , he would not survive Denali , but he was not doing Denali
Me, I had a total load of 30lbs for 7 days including 1.5 L of water . (about 27 for the next 5) . Not light, not heavy . What I had is irrelevant because it was what I wanted to have and still have a good time.
And BTW, your very much maligned Neo Air worked very well for me, saved me some weight and space too...
(no I was not doing Denali)
Franco
This is a video of our last trip, just to give you an idea of what I mean by fun and my kind of hiking..
http://www.yart.com.au/pa/page.aspx?ID=131 (http://www.yart.com.au/pa/page.aspx?ID=131)
Needs subtitles for my bits..
Franco
Tipi Walter,
"It's not the attempts to lighten our loads that rankles and disturbs, it's the heavy handed born-again ultralighters who keep attempting to lead us into a future of flimsy nothingness and a preoccupation with grams.".
Does it not strike you as odd that you are saying that in the Ultralite section ?
Are you not the one that implies that anyone not using your "expedition " gear is going to die or is just plain stupid ?
Who is really preaching here ?
Seems to me that many don't hike because of not been able or willing to carry heavy loads. On the converse , most of the light weight hikers I met recently in WA were older folk that can and do hike (and have fun, look that word up...) because they have lighter loads. And yes I met many with huge packs, none of them appeared to be enjoying themselves (enjoy :look that up too)
One guy (57 year old) did 3-5 days at a time, covering 20-30 miles a day with a 30 L or so pack. He eats just bars (from Walmart as he told us several times). Not my cup of tea but HIS cup of tea. And that is fine with me ....
No , he would not survive Denali , but he was not doing Denali
Me, I had a total load of 30lbs for 7 days including 1.5 L of water . (about 27 for the next 5) . Not light, not heavy . What I had is irrelevant because it was what I wanted to have and still have a good time.
And BTW, your very much maligned Neo Air worked very well for me, saved me some weight and space too...
(no I was not doing Denali)
Franco
Just leave Tipi alone.:)
I think information at this forum is excellent.
I say the little stuff adds up: those small things in pockets.
Look at that.
I really enjoy the ultralightweight and lightweight gear quest. I examine gear and clothing and shelter and sleep systems and food and food preparation in view of minimalist ideals for materials and design along with utility and convenience so I can get maximum enjoyment of the beauty and rugged raw weather I get outdoors in the natural places out in the world.
I do not believe plodding along a prepared trail carrying a heavy pack will ever approach that experience out-of-doors.
crazyonelost
06-03-2010, 18:15
I am so guilty of going heavy about 40-50 lbs. I tend to bring extra stuff I don't need. I have to seriously think about changing my ways.
Ever since I dislocated my shoulder in a house fire a few years back( vol fire fighter)I have to live with this constant pain and while on a hike after 2-3 days I am so ready to get off the trail. But, beside of going lighter. I really have to work on tuning my load. One thing learned is all those little pockets don't need filled up.
I think I bought a size bigger pack (Kelty) starter pack and need to get a smaller pack since when I put my sleeping bag in the bottom pocket it tends to rub against my tail bone. I tried adjusting the shoulder straps up and still have that prob.
I am not exactly a newbie and have a few miles under my belt,but wb has helped in more in the last few weeks then I ever picked up on my experiences and now I have someplace to look up info
bigcranky
06-03-2010, 19:09
Ever since I dislocated my shoulder in a house fire a few years back( vol fire fighter)I have to live with this constant pain and while on a hike after 2-3 days I am so ready to get off the trail. But, beside of going lighter. I really have to work on tuning my load. One thing learned is all those little pockets don't need filled up.
If you're carrying 40-50 pounds for three-season trips, you'll feel it. A bad shoulder makes it worse. The good news is that it's possible to be happy and comfortable on the trail and in camp with 25-30 pounds of total pack weight, or even a little less on a weekend hike. The two key points are (1) don't bring as many things, and (2) find lighter versions of the things you do bring. (I know, easier said than done.)
I have a bad shoulder, and in addition to cutting my pack weight, choosing a pack that does a good job of transferring that weight to my hips helps a lot. Many ultralight packs don't have much suspension (on the theory that a <20 pound total load doesn't need much), so be careful with that. There are some great lightweight 2-3 pound packs with decent suspensions that can handle a 20-30 pound load very well.
Packing is also important. My lovely wife, Dragonfly, was griping this weekend about her day pack, a Gregory Jade 35. Nice pack, but it was pulling away from her shoulders and it hurt, and all this with only 15 pounds or so in the pack. During a break, I repacked and tightened up, making the load taller and tighter -- this made a big difference in the comfort of the pack.
Good luck.
crazyonelost
06-03-2010, 22:22
I agree with ya bigcranky. The only place near me is the cabelas store and they don't really have much selection of different choices. I know there a REI in Pittsburgh,Pa and haven't gotten there yet.
I really don't know of any outfitters in my immediate area and the closest one I might know of is almost 2 hrs drive south for me. I wonder what kind of return policy on packs the alot of companies have? I hate not knowing what I need until I try the packs on and if it don't work then hopefully won't get stuck with a purchase I don't want or need.
superman
06-03-2010, 22:30
I've got a pretty light pack but I still have to carry food and water. I'm looking forward to when the privatize the AT and each shelter is wheel chair accessable with a McDonalds.:-?
Well, I am 56 and my goal is to thru hike AT when I'm 60. I have done a lot of hiking and climbing over the years. All my efforts priorities right now when I hike are with the AT in mind. I am slowly replacing heavier stuff with lightweight stuff. I am dropping off stuff and re-thinking my hiking philosophy about the weight I carry. I don't want to wait until Harpers Ferry or somewhere to do this. I want to start out as light (AND prepared) as possible and MAKE IT ALL THE WAY TO MAINE!!!!! :-)
Looks like we'll be hiking around the same time :) I figure, I have multiple years to do some dayhikes, overnighters, 72 hour hikes, etc. In all kinds of weather to get ready, so there is no reason to not be a bit ready in 3 years ya know.
bigcranky
06-04-2010, 07:59
I agree with ya bigcranky. The only place near me is the cabelas store and they don't really have much selection of different choices. I know there a REI in Pittsburgh,Pa and haven't gotten there yet.
I really don't know of any outfitters in my immediate area and the closest one I might know of is almost 2 hrs drive south for me. I wonder what kind of return policy on packs the alot of companies have? I hate not knowing what I need until I try the packs on and if it don't work then hopefully won't get stuck with a purchase I don't want or need.
We've been to the REI in Pittsburgh, it's a decent store. Note that you can order from REI online to try stuff, and they'll take it back if it doesn't work. You're out the shipping costs, but that may be cheaper than gas.
Most of the smaller cottage gear makers have good trial policies -- you can try the pack/tent/whatever, and return it for a full refund if it doesn't work. Again, you are out shipping charges.
You could decide to go for a weekend hike in Southwestern Virginia, and stop in at Mt Rogers Outfitters in Damascus, but that's a six hour drive from Wheeling. There is a good outfitter in Harper's Ferry, which is closer. You could go do some hiking on the AT and check out some hiking-specific gear.
With the smaller makers, generally you can try stuff if you don't actually use it. You know, wear the pack around the house or block, that sort of thing. You wouldn't be taking it on a trip and getting it all dirty and sweaty and then getting a refund.