Old Rag

[Mrs Baggins]

So we're thinking we'll do Old Rag this Friday (July 3rd). Any suggestions on the best place to park and the best point of access? We live in Alexandria VA so we'd most likely go out Hwy 66 to Front Royal, more or less. I read while were were camped in SNP a couple of weeks ago that they issue so many permits to climb up and no more. So how early should we arrive? :-?

[Blissful]

It's gonna be packed. Unless you get there early Am (before 8 AM I'd say) for the upper lot, be prepared to hike a good half mile up the road to the trailhead from the main parking area where the ranger camps out (just a heads up). And likely the ranger will be there to collect fees after 8 AM. But a good circuit hike.

[Mrs Baggins]

It's gonna be packed. Unless you get there early Am (before 8 AM I'd say) for the upper lot, be prepared to hike a good half mile up the road to the trailhead from the main parking area where the ranger camps out (just a heads up). And likely the ranger will be there to collect fees after 8 AM. But a good circuit hike.

No problem. We believe in user fees.......you use it, you pay for it. We realize it'll lbe busy, but we only have this Friday or the weekend and odds are the weekend days would be even worse.

[Blissful]

Have a great hike! Old Rag is awesome.

[TD55]

8 am may be a late start. It's been three years since I did it, but I would think about a 6 or 7 start since you live so close.

[wrongway_08]

Start early! Say around 4am or 5am at the latest and beat most of the crowd - its a great place without crowds.

You have parking at the main entrance and if you follow the road past the main entrance (get there early, hance the 4am start time) and you can find parking right by the real trailhead. There are 3 or 4 small (2 or 3 car) parking spots up there.

[chknfngrs]

They're right. It's awesome up there. And it'll be packed. You will encounter too many people to start at the Old Rag parking lot at 8AM. If you choose this lot as your start, you need to be on the trail before 6AM. If you have a PATC map, you can enter the area from the other side of the mtn, the road name escapes my memory. But same story, the earlier the better.

[MDhiker1967]

Yes Early start is good.. we hiked it this past weekend.. left the trailhead at 4:10 AM and summited at 7AM.. Awesome hike...

[Cookerhiker]

Haven't hiked Old Rag in years but I echo what everyone else said. Another advantage of an early start is beating the traffic on I-66 and Rt. 29. Until a few years ago, I lived in Silver Spring and noticed the traffic out to the Blue Ridge getting worse and worse every year. The 12 mile stretch from Gainsville to Warrenton used to be a snap - now it's clogged with traffic lights and emerging shopping centers.

[Lemni Skate]

Yes, be there at crack of dawn. There is a sign that says you can't drive past the first parking lot, but you can. Drive on up to trail head.

If you're very late they may turn you away. If you want to do something less crowded then just drive to the National Mall for 4th of July weekend.

An alternate route is to drive to White Oak Canyon trail head and continue up that road (on past turn off for White Oak Canyon) and you can hike up from that trail head. I've rarely seen many cars here.

[scree]

An alternative parking lot that few people know about is located on the other side of the mountain. Granted, I don't much like it since it's too much fire road, but if you *really* want to hit the mountain it's an alternative.

From this map point you can soon hit an alternative parking area that will give you easy access to the Saddle trail. Just click the green bubble, get directions from where you are, and keep heading up 600 until you hit the parking area

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=route+600,+syria,+va&sll=38.542459,-78.332605&sspn=0.044374,0.073128&ie=UTF8&ll=38.519967,-78.315697&spn=0.092134,0.146255&z=13&iwloc=A

I go to Old Rag at least once a month, always on week days. Most of the time I'll get an upper lot parking spot if I get there by 9AM, but I try to arrive around 7AM for maximum isolation.

I do suggest a 100 oz camelbak. You'll probably be amused at the number of tourists despairing after struggling up the first half mile of trail, carrying massive, ancient framepacks and wooden staves (for a day hike, because that's what you're supposed to do when you hike, right?) and wearing everything inappropriate for the hike (I've seen people in their Sunday best hoofing it up the mountain) from flip flops to waders. It can be quite amusing.

[MadAussieInLondon]

get there 7am or earlier. bring water ;) be prepared to wait a looong time for all the people who have never bouldered and get stuck and hold the line up for hours :( and the dumbasses who do the 'reverse' loop from 98% of everyone else and hold everything up as they come down instead of go up...

oh and get there before the tour busses pull in (no kidding, I've seen as many as 8 tour busses there in a single day!)

[Mrs Baggins]

get there 7am or earlier. bring water ;) be prepared to wait a looong time for all the people who have never bouldered and get stuck and hold the line up for hours :( and the dumbasses who do the 'reverse' loop from 98% of everyone else and hold everything up as they come down instead of go up...

oh and get there before the tour busses pull in (no kidding, I've seen as many as 8 tour busses there in a single day!)

Well.........I'm rapidly losing interest in this hike until we can go on a weekday that is not a holiday of any kind. :( We'll just find some other hike for the day. I have no problem with lots of people in an area, but tour bus loads of people........no.

[Sidewinder]

Well.........I'm rapidly losing interest in this hike until we can go on a weekday that is not a holiday of any kind. :( We'll just find some other hike for the day. I have no problem with lots of people in an area, but tour bus loads of people........no.

You forgot to say "thank you" for the information that so many have posted.

[chknfngrs]

Don't stay home just because a few (or several) tour groups are in the mix. Just go somewhere else! The park and surrounding areas to the north and west have plenty of options.

If you want natural beauty without the buses, follow 211 West over Skyline@Thornton Gap, through Luray (Loo-Ray) and up 211 to where Crisman Hollow Road intersects on your right. The wonderfully empty Massanutten Trail is here.

[the goat]

So we're thinking we'll do Old Rag this Friday (July 3rd). Any suggestions on the best place to park and the best point of access? We live in Alexandria VA so we'd most likely go out Hwy 66 to Front Royal, more or less. I read while were were camped in SNP a couple of weeks ago that they issue so many permits to climb up and no more. So how early should we arrive? :-?

ms baggins - the fastest way to get there is:
hwy 66 to rte. 29 South in gainesville.
take 29 south to rte 211 west in warrenton.
take 211 west to sperryville and go south on rte 522
after 0.5 miles, take a right on rte 231 you'll see signs for old rag after 8 miles or so.

[Mrs Baggins]

Don't stay home just because a few (or several) tour groups are in the mix. Just go somewhere else! The park and surrounding areas to the north and west have plenty of options.

If you want natural beauty without the buses, follow 211 West over Skyline@Thornton Gap, through Luray (Loo-Ray) and up 211 to where Crisman Hollow Road intersects on your right. The wonderfully empty Massanutten Trail is here.

No, we won't stay home. We'll definitely find another hike to do. But having to be there at o'dark thirty and then battling tour bus crowds......not gonna happen. We'll wait for a chance to go on a weekday that is not a holiday or up against a holiday. And I DO thank everyone for their advice! :sun

Some people mentioned hikers going up completely unprepared. In 2007 we were on a road trip from Maryland to Alaska and back. We stayed in Utah a few days and hiked up in Arches National Park on one of those days. It was 109 degrees. On our way back down I saw people 1)with no water 2) wearing flip flops 3) going up at 2 pm, the hottest part of the day 3) some in heeled sandals 4) a baby in a backpack carrier, beet red and screaming while a completely oblivious dad continued to hike up. I've also done Diamond Head on Oahu a few times. Same things. I've seen women in heels and dresses, no one carrying water, and very young kids being dragged up.

[Cookerhiker]

As you know, there's lots of other hikes in SNP but as you also know, the holiday weekend will bring the crowds. Drive an extra hour into George Washington Natijonal Forest (http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/gwj/recreation/trails.shtml)IN addition to Massanuten which has already been suggested, there's a myriad of trails in the Great North Mountain area. Drive to Wolf Gap (Take VA 55 into WV which becomes WV 55 to Wardensville and follow the signs - all paved roads). If you have a chance this week, stop by the PATC office (http://potomacappalachian.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=45&Itemid=60) in Vienna one evening or Thursday afternoon and pick up maps.

[Blissful]

Maybe Signal Knob near Front Royal?

[Skyline]

There are many trails in SNP that are almost never crowded—even on a perfect-weather holiday weekend. Just avoid the trailheads that are crowded with cars and you'll find them.

The saying, "A crowd attracts a crowd" is true in the nightclub business, and in the hiking world. People just can't help themselves. They see a nearly full trailhead lot and figure, "This must be the place!" and make the crowd even larger.

Some suggestions...

•North District: Check out any of the trails in the Overall Run Falls area except Overall Run Falls Trail.

•North District: Mt. Marshall Trail>Bluff Trail>AT makes a long circuit. Probably not too crowded except for the AT part, and even that isn't likely to be overrun.

•Central District: Starting at Pinnacles Overlook...Hannah Run Trail>Catlett Mt. Trail>Hazel Mt. Trail>Catlett Spur Trail>Hannah Run Trail>back to start.

•North District: Starting at Thornton River Trail trailhead...Thornton River Trail>Hull School Trail>Fork Mt. Trail>Piney Ridge Trail>AT>Thornton River Trail Connector> back to start.

•Central District: From park boundary on the east...Staunton River Trail>Jones Mt. Trail>McDaniel Hollow Trail>Staunton River Trail>back to start. Possible side trip to Jones Mt. Cabin.

•South District: From Wildcat Ridge trailhead...Wildcat Ridge Trail>Riprap Trail>AT back to start.

•South District: From Brown Mt. Overlook...Brown Mt. Trail>Big Run Portal Trail>Rocky Mt. Run Trail>Brown Mt. Trail back to start.

There are many, many more. Most if not all parts of the above hikes are not typically overcrowded at any time except when a bus full of hikers from a DC area hiking club descends upon them. That doesn't happen often because, frankly, they tend to gravitate to more popular trails just like the tourons.

[Skyline]

BTW, there is a rumor circulating, sourced by people who should know, that the Upper Old Rag lot and the road that takes one there will soon be gated and off-limits to non-resident vehicles. Then, the only option for Old Rag hikers wanting to park on the Ridge Trail side will be to park in the 200-car lower lot and walk the road to the Ridge Trail.

More long-range, there has been a new Old Rag parking lot in the planning for several years. The usual bureaucratic holdups are blocking the way.

[Bob Look]

I patrol Old Rag for PATC NPS and ORMS around once every weekend through all seasons. The reason it is crowded is that it is a great hike even with the crowds. Check out the reviews on Hiking Upward http://www.hikingupward.com/SNP/OldRag/ or if you want I have a weekly blog about my patrols http://oldragpatrolsbyrsl-blook.blogspot.com/ Once the Pinxters and Mt Laurel are gone and the temperatures rise the crowds subside on Old Rag until our busiest times during the fall foliage days. That said, based on the last couple of weekends I would imagine there will be about 300 people hiking Old Rag each weekend day over the 4th. Sounds terrible but compared to 1,500 on a peak fall foliage day it is not bad at all. The peak traffic times have people starting up the Ridge Trail between 9AM and 3PM. Outside of those times the density of traffic drops off. If you are comfortable with walking either the start or end of your hike in the dark under headlamp it is even possible you will have the mountain to yourself even on a busy fall weekend. This weekend will have the moon almost full and waning not to mention the potential to watch distant fireworks. The fireflies put on quite a show along the fire roads during early summer evenings. We do have a rare rattlesnakes or copperhead cross the trails so make sure you have good lights and backups if hiking in the dark. Weekdays are becoming more popular but often see only 20-50 hikers per day. With the exception of a couple choke points in the rock scramble where only one hiker at a time can be squeezing/climbing through the mountain absorbs large numbers of people easily. The choke points actually serve as a sort of traffic flow control for points beyond. On a 300 person day the worst line waiting to surmount a short section of climbing in the Chute will probably only be about 20 people deep and will only exist for 60 minutes out of the 24 hour day and for most of the day there will be no line at all. On the one or two worst days in the fall these lines can get to be 200 people deep and cause you to wait your turn in a line of hikers for over half an hour. It is true that you can hike up the backside from Berry Hollow but you will miss the rock scramble which is what most would consider the highlight of the hike.

[Bob Look]

I should have said waxing (getting bigger each night) not waning.