View Full Version : What makes a trail a trail?
medicjimr
07-08-2009, 09:31
Well I ask the question what makes a trail a trail after being disapointed by a trail in my area known as the Baker trail. Is it common for a trail to be mostly roadways as this trail runs on 95% of the time. Is it common for shelters to be just off the roadway as well making for a not so quiet nights sleep. I purchased the trail guide recently since the only way you can find the shelters are by the guide which I can see why now they don't post much info online because I as well as others would'nt have waisted there time with the trail. I don't want anyone thinking I am bashing the orginization that oversees the trail they did not design it. allot of the problem is posted land and the inability to put the trail thru the posted property. Another problem is you can only camp at the shelter sites and some shelters are 15 miles appart. If for some reason you could'nt make a shelter you are SOL. sorry for venting but is there other trail similar to this others have exsperianced.
Most of the Conestoga, Mason-Dixon, and Horse-Shoe trails in eastern PA have even less accommodation for backpacking and a good bit of "trail" on roads as well.
As a few of you know I've been active in the effort to complete PA's Mid State Trail. To try to meet the objective of no more than 15 km (remember, this is the "Metric System Trail" we're talking about :) ) between legal camping spots on the north end we wind around a bit to go from car campground to car campground since there simply are no lands where dispersed camping is legal. There remains an unblazed bit where I refuse to blaze anything unless and until we know we can't get it off those roads even though they're 95% gravel and sometimes unplowed. To me an even more serious issue is 110 km (from PA 326 to US 22) near the south end of MST, of mostly off-road trail, but on State Game Lands or private land where camping is not allowed. (Currently ONLY the A.T. has a limited exception allowing camping on Game Lands, not even the NCT shares this privilege.) The MST Association is working on two possibilities within this 110 km but nothing will be announced until it's final. Then you need 6-8 more spots. And it sure would be nice if there's water, right now there's 25+ km with no trailside water at all in any season of the year - and that's 40 km if you don't count the Sheetz store on the trail. :D
Establishing even designated camping sites is pretty slow work - think for yourself, would you want one on your property where you pay the taxes and mortgage and the trail group can't pay anything to maintain liability protection for both you and them the way the law reads? How many even have the nerve to go around asking people for this - you can't send a letter, e-mail, or phone call, personal visits are needed to break the ice.
All these trails depend on volunteers - can you help light the candle, as well as rue the darkness?
Yes, it is common for trail clubs and folks who sell trail guides and maps to be less than truthful and accurate, especially about the amount of raod walking. Before the internet and sites like WB exploring new trails could be a hit or miss nightmare.
Let me make it clear, I'm not accusing the clubs, etc. of being malicious or running a scam or anything like that. Maybe it's because so many trails are just always in the developement stage. For wqhatever reason, there are alot of people who promote trails that are in developement and hnce, have miles and miles of road walks and lousy camping sytems where you end upp having to pay for commercial capsites or staying in motels or risk getting in trouble for trespassing.
Yes, it is common for trail clubs and folks who sell trail guides and maps to be less than truthful and accurate, especially about the amount of raod walking. Before the internet and sites like WB exploring new trails could be a hit or miss nightmare.
It's volunteers who make the maps and guides as well. Before the Internet it's been difficult to disseminate information on changes between editions of maps and guides. Now it's tough to get through the noise sometimes.
Another challenge has been a difference in perspective on what constitutes a "road". I've been tracking data in a GIS for the MST and counted as a road any pathway open to routine public vehicular travel. In another thread on WB the consensus was to count only paved roads. You can imagine that the road walking percentage quickly went down. :D
Homer&Marje
07-08-2009, 10:31
I would say the answer has been given in so many words. The effort and man power it takes to simply MAKE a trail, let alone MAINTAIN that trail are astronomical. The AT and some other large trails that have massive support become "easier" to maintain "most" of it, making it a trail that is easier to walk most of it without issue.
Last summer I was going to do a 35 mile trail near my house and do 10-11+ a day for 3 days, nice light, flat walking for the most part. I ended up coming back very shortly due to injury, but the 3 miles that I walked were some of the hardest simply to follow the trail, all the road crossings and such were a hassle and not marked well. We walked up and down a 100 yard...sorry meter:D section of one road for 10 minutes looking for the trail on the other side. It was completely overgrown, not surprising....did a lot of bushwacking and I didn't mind...I will go back and do the trail one day, not this summer though...thinking about making it a winter hike or late fall when the brush will be lighter.
john gault
07-08-2009, 10:46
Well I ask the question what makes a trail a trail after being disapointed by a trail in my area known as the Baker trail. Is it common for a trail to be mostly roadways as this trail runs on 95% of the time. Is it common for shelters to be just off the roadway as well making for a not so quiet nights sleep. I purchased the trail guide recently since the only way you can find the shelters are by the guide which I can see why now they don't post much info online because I as well as others would'nt have waisted there time with the trail. I don't want anyone thinking I am bashing the orginization that oversees the trail they did not design it. allot of the problem is posted land and the inability to put the trail thru the posted property. Another problem is you can only camp at the shelter sites and some shelters are 15 miles appart. If for some reason you could'nt make a shelter you are SOL. sorry for venting but is there other trail similar to this others have exsperianced.
Sounds like it should be renamed: Baker Route
I have also hiked this trail and find it to be very nice in sections.
First of all why would you buy the trail guide after you hike the trail. Do your research before you hike.
The baker trail is being overseen by a small group of enthusiastic, very hard working people. Before they stepped up the trail was for the most part lost. And for the record it is about 65% trail and 35% road walk. They are working with local land owners to get as much of it off the road as possible. The shelters (some new/renovated) are not well marked to keep them as unknown as possible. Like shelters on the AT that are near roads they want to keep them for the hikers not locals. They maintain the trail in 3 parts. One section each year. Some sections get more maintenance depending on volunteers. The northern section that includes Cook Forest State Park is very nice.
Get out and do some trail work or donate money to a trail you enjoy. Trails to not maintain themselves.
This link will take you to the baker trail and the Rachael Carson trails conservancy.
http://www.rachelcarsontrails.org/bt
In columbia md where I live there's miles of paths throughout the place, you can buy a map and walk pass 3 different lakes though the woods and many other numerous places..is this a trail no... but it's still a walk in the woods
The Weasel
07-08-2009, 14:00
I assume you mean hiking trail in your question; there are many trails (and recognized as such) that are now highways. But it's entirely fair to have road links between sections of pathways, if they form a cohesive whole in doing so; the AT once had significant amounts of road walking, and still has some very minor parts that are. While perhaps not entirely wild (although some roads are wilder than some trails!) they can be enjoyable and valuable parts of a trail system.
TW
Plodderman
07-08-2009, 15:27
Most of the hiking trails in my area of Ohio are not overnight and include very few roads. The ones that require overnight do not have shelters but camping areas.
The thing that designates a trail in our area is that it is set aside for hiking or foot travel. We have many places that can be hiked that are ATV Trails so they are usually marked for the four wheelers first then for foot travel.
We have the Buckeye Trail which in some parts can be bicycles or foot travel and have some road travel.
For me a Hiking trail is for foot travel and other than crossing roads should be secluded with camp sites off the beaten path.
Over the past few years many areas have black topped trail and called them hiking trails that accommodate both foot and bicycle travel. They are more for walking and I do not consider them hiking trails.
medicjimr
07-08-2009, 15:30
I have also hiked this trail and find it to be very nice in sections.
First of all why would you buy the trail guide after you hike the trail. Do your research before you hike.
The baker trail is being overseen by a small group of enthusiastic, very hard working people. Before they stepped up the trail was for the most part lost. And for the record it is about 65% trail and 35% road walk. They are working with local land owners to get as much of it off the road as possible. The shelters (some new/renovated) are not well marked to keep them as unknown as possible. Like shelters on the AT that are near roads they want to keep them for the hikers not locals. They maintain the trail in 3 parts. One section each year. Some sections get more maintenance depending on volunteers. The northern section that includes Cook Forest State Park is very nice.
Get out and do some trail work or donate money to a trail you enjoy. Trails to not maintain themselves.
This link will take you to the baker trail and the Rachael Carson trails conservancy.
http://www.rachelcarsontrails.org/bt
Well I bought the trail guide first and then hit the trail I live in armstrong county and have done a section near home 3 miles was trail remainder was roadway. and if you read the guidbook and the directions and well as the maps it is mostly roadway. I understand it is a volunteer group and like my originol post did not bash them only stating the trail is more a road then anything the trail is not new either.