Next month's meeting of our Boy Scout troop the Scoutmaster and I (Ass't scoutmaster) are going to talk to some of the older Scouts that have expressed an interest in hiking the AT.

I realize there is a LOT of accumulated expert knowledge on these forums and I would like to ask you WB'ers to post some tips that you WISH someone would have told you when you first started hiking the AT, whether it be section hiking or thru-hiking.

I will collect all these tips and put it into our presentation, and will post it on here if there is any interest in it.

We would have done this earlier in the summer, but I didn't find this board until just recently.

Thanks,
ukflatfoot

I realize there is a LOT of accumulated expert knowledge on these forums and I would like to ask you WB'ers to post some tips that you WISH someone would have told you when you first started hiking the AT, whether it be section hiking or thru-hiking.

I will collect all these tips and put it into our presentation, and will post it on here if there is any interest in it.



there are no "experts" on here. it's just walkin'.
take lots of time and money

As a Scoutmaster I am often embarassed in the forums when I read that hikers arrive at shelters to find thevy have been overrun by Scouts. Please consider using tents instead of shelters and impose a curfew to keep noise levels down.

As a Scoutmaster I am often embarassed in the forums when I read that hikers arrive at shelters to find thevy have been overrun by Scouts. Please consider using tents instead of shelters and impose a curfew to keep noise levels down.

why? shelters are first come, first served

I would like to ask you WB'ers to post some tips that you WISH someone would have told you when you first started hiking the AT, whether it be section hiking or thru-hiking.


I'm a section hiker....i guess...

ditch the boots. i wasted so much time trying to figure out how to deal with blisters....ditch the boots (even in winter)

use a headlamp, not a flash light :rolleyes:

test your gear in your backyard (all of it, tent, raingear, stove, sleeping pad...everything) before you have to use it for the first time.

bring extra water...you never know...(one hike for 7 miles i had to chew and suck the juice out of carrots to get liquids as all the water had dried up, and I was counting on those sources :rolleyes:)

wear clothing that fits YOU in all the right places....seams will rub under your packstraps causing chafing, your pants/shorts might twist or ride up...

hike/camp often to refine your gear, style, procedures....practice makes perfect.

then scour WB for similar threads that have been discussed over the years....there are at least 10 i'm sure. :)

The Scout law includes the phrase "Courteous." Typically, not always, Scouts haven't travelled too long a distance to get to the trail, easy enough for them to bring their own tents and be considerate of others.

bring extra water...you never know...


by this i mean like an extra 500 ml to a liter. in summer if i camp, i usually take 4-6 liters....but i think i'm in the minority to carry so much.

As a Scoutmaster I am often embarassed in the forums when I read that hikers arrive at shelters to find thevy have been overrun by Scouts. Please consider using tents instead of shelters and impose a curfew to keep noise levels down.

A curfew! C'mon. We're not juveniles...the Scouts are.

I think the Scouts are great that I run into on the trails. They are always respectful and I love to see kids out in the woods who are fascinated by what they see on the trail. I was and still am that kid. :)

Hmmm....tips....

Duct Tape...

I wish someone had told me to ditch my cotton clothing brfore I started. Or that I didn't need to carry gallon of water with me. Other than that, it's like lonewolf says, it's just walkin'.
Outta shape, overweight (both my gut and pack), up and down endless steep hills with what feels like a load of pig iron on my back, but just walkin nevertheless.

The Scout law includes the phrase "Courteous." Typically, not always, Scouts haven't travelled too long a distance to get to the trail, easy enough for them to bring their own tents and be considerate of others.

same for ANYBODY who hits the trail. ALWAYS carry some sort of shelter. nobody is special or has rights to the wooden boxes

I'm an asst leader as well, and for the past several years have been doing hikes with a bunch of scouts. My recommendation to you would be to do a series of day hikes, graduating to a several day hike on the AT as a culmination of their hard work and an opportunity to show what they learned through all the day hikes.

Through my experiences the kids and leaders don't have a clue how hard "just walkin" can be on a trail with frequent elevation change. A mile to mile and a half is actually a good pace for a bunch of scouts. The day hikes were used to garner experience, using stoves, filtering water, and just walkin.

Their experience through the day hikes can be huge, with gear shake down after hikes. I've had kids trying to bring boom boxes, bring 3 legged stools to sit on, way to much food, the wrong clothing, to much clothing, etc....I've had kids roll their ankles on the first day, develop chaffe, (same kid actually), dehydrate, etc....Just keep in mind all the heavey crap they bring you may end up humping because of the scouts safety that you've been entrusted with.

We don't use shelters, keeping the boys tented together, practicing 2 deep leadership at all times.

One of the things the boys get a kick out of is earning a trail name. They actually gave me mine, Scrapes, after witnessing me fall when the HUGE boulder I was on gave way causing me to gracefully fall down the side of the switch back. They were good and didn't laugh til I moved.

Scrapes- Thanks for the input. We have been doing day hikes locally and have a trip planned to hike a trail through some of the Civil War battlefields in TN. That is exactly what we were planning to do is a series of day hikes this summer and next and culminating at the end of next summer with a short section hike on the AT as a "reward" for completing their projects they are working on this year and next.

El Toro '94- Thanks for your tips.

Darkstar214- Thanks. My love affair with hiking began as a scout as well, so I am trying to impress the values I learned as a scout on these kiddos. Scouting is a lot different nowdays, there is more competition for their attention (xbox, ps3, ipod) than when I was a scout in the 70's.

saimyoji-Thanks! Those are the kind of tips I was looking for!

elangomat- Thanks! We were going to use tents to keep the shelters open for thru-hikers. Hopefully my scouts know respect and we will be sure to remind them to respect the other hikers....

Lone Wolf- There may not be experts, but surely each person has at least one thing they wish they were told when they started hiking. I want these guys to have the best experience they can, and hopefully they will continue to embrace and love the outdoors and one day teach their children.

Thanks for the replies...please any tips at all are appreciated.

I am an SM in Indiana and have had my older boys on the AT once, I have hiked three sections myself (including a hard climb of Big K).

The advice you have received so far is right on the money. I might suggest you take a look at Troop 445/Crew 445 (Texas) web site related to Philmont. You will find tons of information on gear lists (both personal and crew) that will help you and your boys eliminate unnecessary weight. We follow the practices of Troop/Crew 445 and it works very well.

Of coruse, the AT is not Philmont, so meals are purchased by us instead of prepackaged by Philmont. We typically have each person pack his own breakfast and lunch meals (no cook always) and we purchase Mountain House Bulk (10 serving) cans that get repackaged and distributed among the crew (some times we use the 4 serving envlopes). I have found that we typicall need 1.5 to 1.75 servings per person using Mountain House. Also, I have found that for a crew of 12 we typically use about 8 oz of white gas with a Wisperlight each day cooking dinner (we boil enough water in one pot for the food and dishes (about 1.5 gallons).

As to carrying "extra" stuff, I am pretty flexible on our day hikes and local weekend backpacking trips, if they want to carry a boom box, or a two liter bottle of Mountain Dew, or whatever, go ahead, but I am not, nore will any of our adults carry their "unnecessary" stuff, they or their buddies will (this is a great learning experience). On week long trips I am a bit more militent (checking packs) as I don't want my vacation ruined by an overweight pack.

Also, on a weeklong trip, don't be afraid to contact a Scout Troop local to the area to shuttle you and perhaps drop food at a road crossing 1/2 way through your trip. This serves two purposes, you make a donation to a brother Scout for the shuttle service and you don't have to carry 7 days worth of food (can get heavy and bulky).
We did this last year with a Troop local to Damascus VA and it worked very well. They even took our cars home so they (cars) did not have to sit at a trail head, eliminating the potential of a breakin.

I can also tell you the area north of Damascus is fantastic (Grayson Highlands), I can send you a 40 mile 5 day hike plan if you are interested, PM me.

rpenczek,

Thanks for the great tips and PM sent.

All good posts on this topic. As a former asst SM (this is fr MomNTheWoods hubby) we always did at least one AT trip each yr. Here are a few of my thoughts...

-Leave the iPods, cell phones, PSP, etc in the vans except for an emergency phone that probably won't have reception anyway. Allow the boys to experience nature.

-Review basic trail etiquette. Step aside for hikers headed uphill. Amazing how many adult hikers I pass who do not do this when I am fully loaded and they are carrying nothing!

-Don't push the boys too much. Know their limitations. We often broke our trips in two. One for the older boys that could go 10+ miles per day and one for younger boys that would go 5-7 miles per day. Think about it. Don't make them hate backpacking. It's difficult enough to keep kids in scouting.

-Do a full equipment check prior to everyone's first trip.

-Keep it fun. Oh the memories of fellow asst SMs who dreaded these trips and their moods affected the boys'.

I'd also suggest doing a regular camping trip (at a state park or scout camp) with day hiking, and then progress to backpacking. Treat it as a backpacking trip though. Have them pack their bags as they would backpacking and then have them carry it on the day hikes.

I did this with my adult hiking group. It's amazing how much they discovered they could live without after hiking that first day with the pack. The advantage to this, is they can "lose" stuff after day 1 and just leave it at the car and not carry it on day 2.

I like many found a love for the AT through scouting. We did several sections through the years and our largest was about a 60 mile section ending at the NOC. We did like so many suggested we did many hikes leading up to the big one on the AT. I agree as well you might want to do many lessons on proper gear and weight. We did many shakedown hikes and finally got our gear with food and water to a decent weight. Enjoy!

Make sure they understand that they may be miserable some of the time. This is normal and will probably pass if they let it.

1) Individuals should not feel that they have to "stay with the group" but hike at their own speed.
2) No 'grouping' at break points. This results in 'last one in' only getting a few minutes (bad) while 'first in' members get too long and stiffen up (also bad).

TW

I'm an ASM too, and we've been transitioning from a purely car camping troop. One of our annual events now is an introductory backpacking trip for the troop. Not everyone backpacks this trip, but they all feel like they are participating. Everybody is at the group camp on Friday night. Saturday morning the older scouts head out to backpack overnight on a 10-12 mile trip. The younger scouts head out on a day hike as if they are backpacking with as much as they can reasonably carry. Granted, for the first year scouts keeping their packs within 20-25% of body weight means that lunch, a water bottle, and a rain jacket is a full load. But everybody carries a pack.

We also do a shakedown at the troop meeting before the trip, where we weigh the packs, the scouts, and go through everything in their pack.

The more experienced scouts do a "What not to bring" routine at one of the prep meetings that is always fun. This is where they pull boomboxes, bowling balls, full rolls of toilet paper, 5 pairs of jeans, dutch ovens, etc. out of some demonstration packs.

Shelters are indeed first-come, first served, but it is a fact that a good-sized group of young teens can have quite an impact on other people trying to enjoy a pleasant night at a campsite or shelter.

So unless the group is small or the weather is really horrible, Scouts should generally tent or tarp as opposed to staying in a shelter.

Also, studying maps and guidebooks so one's end-of-day location is a larger "group" campsite would probably be best.

And keep in mind that the ATC suggests that group size on the A.T. should generally be limited to no more than 10-12 people. Any more than that tends to have a greater impact on the Trail, on Trail facilities, and on the ability of other folks to enjoy their time in the woods.

Lastly, I think all of us that have hiked the Trail before can come up with a list of things we wish we'd known way back when, or perhaps we have a list of things we'd do differently.

My list can be found in the "Articles" section of this website; look at the "Hiker Advice" thread; there's actually quite a good discussion of what some of us would do if we could do it all over again.

Shelters are indeed first-come, first served, but it is a fact that a good-sized group of young teens can have quite an impact on other people trying to enjoy a pleasant night at a campsite or shelter.



and a good-sized group of thru-hikers with a bunch of alcohol can have quite an impact on young teens trying to enjoy an outing. i've seen it a lot and one of your good friends is all about having parties at shelters.

if 10 scouts arrive at a 10 person shelter and nobody is there, it's theirs. very simple. the rest get your water and camp or push on

seems like its all been covered, so ill offer this sidenote: if you have time, solos (nights alone in the woods) can be particularly rewarding, especially for first time backpackers.

also, when i've led trips in the past with new hikers i give them riddles if they seem to need a distraction from the terrain

why? shelters are first come, first served

That's true, but any group, scouts or otherwise, should not monopolize a shelter. It's common curtisey

Next month's meeting of our Boy Scout troop the Scoutmaster and I (Ass't scoutmaster) are going to talk to some of the older Scouts that have expressed an interest in hiking the AT.

I realize there is a LOT of accumulated expert knowledge on these forums and I would like to ask you WB'ers to post some tips that you WISH someone would have told you when you first started hiking the AT, whether it be section hiking or thru-hiking.

I will collect all these tips and put it into our presentation, and will post it on here if there is any interest in it.

We would have done this earlier in the summer, but I didn't find this board until just recently.

Thanks,
ukflatfoot


I fondly remember hiking with our scout troop. All ages went and the older helped the younger. I learned many thoughtful things from the higher in rank. I also learned what not to do from the younger ones. We all had fun. Our SM had a 2 rules...You bring it, you carry it. If you bring a radio, keep it low so someone else does not have to hear it. He let us be boys and have fun on the trail.
40 years later we are still laughing over some of our learning adventures.

Some good and valid points here. And watching Lone Wolf mount the pulpit in his new persona as a latter day temperance advocate is also fun. :D

Some good and valid points here. And watching Lone Wolf mount the pulpit in his new persona as a latter day temperance advocate is also fun. :D
hardly a new persona. i've always been against partying at shelters and i hate shelters but you and your buds think it's just fine and dandy

Me and my buds?

If you actually knew what you were talking about, Wolf, you know I hardly ever stay at shelters. Since February I think I've slept in three.

And some of those same people are friends of yours, too, no?

So, please, lighten up.

Thanks to all of the people that took time to reply.

I too got my love of hiking through the Scouts and I want these kids to be able to have the same experience. Some of these kids come from families that probably would never set foot on a trail and I hope to embed some positive experiences in them that hopefully they will bring later in life.

We have been taking day trips and overnights to Land Between the Lakes( we live in KY, not a lot of rugged trails near here) and have done some of the American Discovery trail.

Next year we are going to have a bunch of hikes in TN, culminating in a AT trip for their Backpacking badge.

So thanks again to all who responded and I will be sure to emphasize the nature aspect and the respect for fellow hikers.

As far as shelters, we will probably tent camp to give them more practice at setting up camp, hanging their food and breaking camp and to give them confidence.

As part of their Backpacking, Hiking, and Camping merit badges we will be emphasizing LNT principles and also teaching them how to read a compass and navigate with a compass and how to read a topo map to be better prepared. We will also go over the requirements for the Wilderness Survivial merit badge as well so that they know first aid techniques.

Jack-Thanks I will look at your articles!

Thanks to all of the people that took time to reply.

I too got my love of hiking through the Scouts and I want these kids to be able to have the same experience. Some of these kids come from families that probably would never set foot on a trail and I hope to embed some positive experiences in them that hopefully they will bring later in life.

We have been taking day trips and overnights to Land Between the Lakes( we live in KY, not a lot of rugged trails near here) and have done some of the American Discovery trail.

Next year we are going to have a bunch of hikes in TN, culminating in a AT trip for their Backpacking badge.

So thanks again to all who responded and I will be sure to emphasize the nature aspect and the respect for fellow hikers.

As far as shelters, we will probably tent camp to give them more practice at setting up camp, hanging their food and breaking camp and to give them confidence.

As part of their Backpacking, Hiking, and Camping merit badges we will be emphasizing LNT principles and also teaching them how to read a compass and navigate with a compass and how to read a topo map to be better prepared. We will also go over the requirements for the Wilderness Survivial merit badge as well so that they know first aid techniques.

Jack-Thanks I will look at your articles!
It is a good thing to get the kids trail experience. Teach them well.:)

1) Individuals should not feel that they have to "stay with the group" but hike at their own speed.
2) No 'grouping' at break points. This results in 'last one in' only getting a few minutes (bad) while 'first in' members get too long and stiffen up (also bad).

TW


100% agree with that. But would make the suggestion of having at least one adult in front and one in the back. Also, it can be kind of rough to do this with younger boys if you have a lot of points where they have to navigate.

I hike with our troop for 10 years doing Philmont twice and then with my own Venture crew doing some hiking in Va. I offer this advice:

Be sure to hike a couple of "shakedown hikes" of overnight or 2 nights.

Have them empty their packs and show them what they need and don't need. But ultimately they have to carry it.

Teach them to break camp "stealth" style; no talking and moving about quietly. This is so important if you break camp before other hikers are up and moving. My friend and I shared a shelter two years ago with a troop. They were great until they broke camp at 5 am crowing loudly like birds!

Another technique we used was to hike 30 min and stop for a 5 min. breather and to be sure everyone drank water. Then after and hour of hiking we would take a 10 back break. This moves slower but makes sure that all scouts get there in good shape. Remember...it's not a race.

About a dozen years ago a friend and I decided to overnight at the Kinsman Pond shelter (yes, I used to sleep in them) in the dead of winter. The temperature was expected to drop to -20F (it did). As we passed the Lonesome Lake Hut we saw a group of scouts and their two adult leaders camped under it. Some of the scouts seemed to have summer weight cotton shelled bags. On the way down the next morning they were still there, and somehow they managed to survive (youth is a wonderful thing). I don't know if the leaders expected the hut to be open or if they intended to camp under it, but the wind at ridgeline was in the 30-40 mph. range, putting the wind chill in the "ungodly cold" category, to say the least. My fingers froze to my stove at breakfast, for instance.
Bottom line is:
Make sure your scouts are appropriately attired and protected (especially in winter) by clothing and sleeping bags, and:
Know your destination and weather conditions before leaving the trailhead.
If the kids don't have the right equipment, MAKE them stay home.

That's true, but any group, scouts or otherwise, should not monopolize a shelter. It's common curtisey
Common courtesy isn't.:-?

I was a boyscout when I was a kid. I took the "Be Prepared" motto a little too literally though. I used to bring everything but the kitchen sink to make sure I had it if the need arose. Let's just say that I quickly went from a deluxe hiker to lightweight, and now I am progressivley working on becoming an ultralight hiker. They probably won't need as much gear, clothing, water, food, etc... as they think they need. It's also important to learn to ration food and water especially so you don't run out too soon.

Always have a back-up plan or two in place in case someone gets injured, or is having trouble hiking as fast or far as the others. Take the phone number of an area shuttler or two, know where you could get off the trail & to an area you could be picked up if necessary.