View Full Version : Pennsylvania water sources 2009
It's getting to be that time of year when MEGAs will soon be arriving in Pennsylvania and of course there are those do who enjoy summer through hiking. Pennsylvania through hikers have been blessed with an abundance of water this year, but since conditions change and Kittatinny Ridge is likely to become drier in late summer and early fall, I thought I'd solicit information about current conditions and reiterate the importance of information gathering and planning.
Until we accumulate current information, I suggest referring to Water Conditions on the trail in Pa. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38394) (2008) for general advice.
To get some idea whether AT hikers can depend upon natural water sources in Berks County, refer to Middle Atlantic River Forecast Center's 30-day (http://www.erh.noaa.gov/marfc/Maps/PANY_counties_30_color.htm) and 7-day (http://www.erh.noaa.gov/marfc/Maps/PANY_counties_7_color.htm) precipitaton maps, NWS data (http://www.weather.gov/data/obhistory/KRDG.html) collected at Reading Regional Airport/Carl A. Spaatz Field in Bern Township and NWS's 7-day forecast for Port Clinton (http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Port+Clinton&state=PA&site=PHI&textField1=40.5822&textField2=-76.0247&e=0).
When used with Guide to the Appalachian Trail in Pennsylvania, these links provide a good indication what can be expected. Normal conditions are specified in KTA's guide and known to more-experienced local hikers.
Visit the links to see how much precipitation compared to the norm has been recorded for the last 30 days, the last 7 days, within the last 24 hours and what's forecast. If MARFC's maps are showing red, there's been no rain in the last 24 hours and none is forecast, be prepared for dry conditions. Please be advised, even when conditions are normal (green) during the summer, ridgetop springs may be unreliable.
BMECC's shelter caretakers at PA 501 and Eckville, Ye Olde Backpacker at Port Clinton, hikers travelling in the opposite direction and shelter registers may be helpful in confirming current status of natural water sources or alternates.
saimyoji
07-26-2009, 17:10
Gold Spring, just passed the Pinnacle was flowing nicely on 7/26.
question for emerald (SOG): is it legal to take water from the Hamburg reservoir?
emerald (SOG): is it legal to take water from the Hamburg reservoir?
Sorry, SOG now only hikes other trails and no longer posts to WhiteBlaze. I don't dare mention WhiteBlaze without risk of being shunned.;)
Of course the official response to your question can only be provided by Borough of Hamburg. So long as hikers aren't swimming in their water supply, I believe they don't mind if hikers help themselves to a drink on the house or take out up to the equivalent of two 6-packs for personal consumption and/or by others under their direct supervision.
I suggest reading and respecting posted signage to avoid undesired consequences.
Hoop Time
07-26-2009, 18:23
Darlington spring dry on 7/25. There's a sign warning of this at the last water source each direction. Best to fill up at those two small streams.
Lone Wolf
07-26-2009, 20:35
It's getting to be that time of year when GAMErs will soon be arriving in Pennsylvania and of course there are those who enjoy summer through hiking. Pennsylvania through hikers have been blessed with an abundance of water this year, but as conditions do change and Kittatinny Ridge ordinarily presents challenges in late summer and early fall, I thought I'd solicit information about current conditions and reiterate the importance of information gathering and planning.
Until we accumulate current information, I suggest referring to Water Conditions on the trail in Pa. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38394) (2008) for general advice.
dude. PA ain't the Sahara desert. you cross at least 3 roads a day maybe more. out of water? hitch left or right and find a store, house or bar and get some water. no friggin biggie :rolleyes:
PA ain't the Sahara desert. you cross at least 3 roads a day maybe more. out of water? hitch left or right and find a store, house or bar and get some water.
Never claimed Pennsylvania is The Sahara of the Appalachian Trail. Hikers request information and we provide it.
There's no need for water caches or hitching from trailheads to obtain drinking water. Hitching to fetch water is for hikers who can't be bothered to plan ahead, have nowhere to go and all day to get there.
shelterbuilder
07-26-2009, 22:13
I was out last weekend between Swatara Gap and Pa. Rt. 325. Please note that any water that is contaminated by the numerous old coal mining operations in this area will look ORANGE and should not be consumed. However, as of last weekend, good water was flowing nicely at Rausch Gap shelter, the small stream in the rhododendron grove betwen Stony and Sharp Mtns., and a small spring alongside of the trail mid-way between the top of Stony Mtn. and the "old coal mine" that's listed on the maps.
...and say "hello" to the resident porcupine on top of Stony Mtn.!!!
saimyoji
07-26-2009, 22:18
Never claimed Pennsylvania was The Sahara. Hikers request such information and we provide it.
There's no need for water caches or hitching from trailheads to obtain drinking water. Hitching to fetch water is for hikers who can't be bothered to plan ahead, have nowhere to go and all day to get there.
yep..plenty of on trail water for the MAP CARRYING HIKER. if you don't carry your official updated KTA map or equivalent, don't expect me to help you. spend a dollar, have a good time; save a dollar, suffer...********.
Keep it up, I'll stop posting and just read yours!
Say "hello" to the resident porcupine on top of Stony Mtn.!!!
AT hikers can expect to see more porkies soon. I hear PGC's planning a trap-and-transfer program.;)
Seems black bears, timber rattlesnakes and copperheads aren't enough to encourage some hikers to respect PGC's regulation concerning leashes.
saimyoji
07-26-2009, 23:25
the only place i've seen sign of more porky activity was around DWG, specifically the dunnfield creek trail, uphill from the trail, about 10-15 trees scratched out by porkys.
thanks for the warning....never seen a rattler impaled on porky spikes....:eek:
never seen a rattler impaled on porky spikes....:eek:
That's because they both know better.
Hoop Time
07-27-2009, 01:42
yep..plenty of on trail water for the MAP CARRYING HIKER. if you don't carry your official updated KTA map or equivalent, don't expect me to help you. spend a dollar, have a good time; save a dollar, suffer...********.
For what it is worth, the water source at the base of Cove Mountain does not show up in the ALDHA's companion. It is on the map. Filling up there makes more sense than hiking an extra half mile to reach the spring at Cove Shelter, regardless which direction you are headed.
As for LW's suggestion, there is no road crossing between 890 and Duncannon. But if you fill up on either side of Darlington, you should be fine.
Nasty Dog Virus
07-27-2009, 08:42
dude. PA ain't the Sahara desert. you cross at least 3 roads a day maybe more. out of water? hitch left or right and find a store, house or bar and get some water. no friggin biggie :rolleyes:
I prefer to get my water w/o riding in a car or going to a store, house, or bar...
I might actually be able to do this if I find accurate info in this thread and I'm able to sort out BS posts about PA Water Sources written by someone in VA.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 09:08
I prefer to get my water w/o riding in a car or going to a store, house, or bar...
I might actually be able to do this if I find accurate info in this thread and I'm able to sort out BS posts about PA Water Sources written by someone in VA.
sure kid. whatever you say :)
Nasty Dog Virus
07-29-2009, 12:12
The springs at both Peters Mtn Shelter & Clarks Ferry Shelter were flowing well yesterday.
NOBOs report that 1st spring below Cove Mtn Shelter was dry yesterday but that there is a spring 20-30 yards further down the hill past the dry spring which is flowing. Also stated Darlington still dry.
Ramble~On
07-29-2009, 15:01
We're in Palmerton and finishing up PA shortly (If we ever get out of here). Water hasn't been an issue although there have been a few miles when we were dry. The springs are often down a ways.
I'd tell anyone hiking either direction to stop at PA 309 and fill up at the restaurant...especially if going north.
The spigot at Kirkridge is as reliable as ever.
We'll be getting rain up this way, on and off, for the next few days so hopefully the springs will be flowing nicely.
Strategic
07-30-2009, 10:33
I was up at Leroy Smith and Kirkridge shelters two weeks ago (7/10 and 7/11 respectively) and both are still well supplied. The #2 and #3 springs at Leroy Smith were running very well, at least 8 liters a minute by my estimate. With the rain we've had it seems likely that both are still in the same shape. The tap at Kirkridge is still on (of course) and having no troubles.
I did get a few other reports from thru-hikers while I was out, but these I haven't observed: everyone told me that Delp's spring is dry, either by report or by going down themselves. Stempa's spring is, by all reports, still running fine, though only a few thru-hikers said they actually went down to it. One told me that he had seen Metallica spring flowing fairly well, but none of the others had been down to it. All said that Outerbridge shelter's spring was slow but still flowing. Since it's a pretty small spring anyway, that's probably about right.
That's as far as observation and rumor took me for that trip. I should be out again soon (both day and section hiking) so I'll report back with whatever I find.
It appears MEGAs with maps and a handbook shouldn't experience difficulty finding water at this time.
In a few days, I expect to post on conditions between Swatara and Schuylkill Gaps unless someone beats me to it. With more than an inch of rain reported in the last 7 days in all AT counties except Lebanon, Berks springs should be flowing well too.
saimyoji
08-01-2009, 21:07
The spring at Rte 183 is flowing fine.
The stream at Shuber's Gap is ice cold and running well. I was surprised to not see anyone up there this afternoon.
Strategic
08-22-2009, 14:06
I'm out for a four day section north from 183 to Lehigh Gap starting this afternoon. I'll report back on Wednesday or Thursday, but I expect I'll find good water conditions, considering the rain we've had.
Wise Old Owl
08-22-2009, 14:23
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/Tailingspoison.jpg
I was out last weekend between Swatara Gap and Pa. Rt. 325. Please note that any water that is contaminated by the numerous old coal mining operations in this area will look ORANGE and should not be consumed. However, as of last weekend, good water was flowing nicely at Rausch Gap shelter, the small stream in the rhododendron grove betwen Stony and Sharp Mtns., and a small spring alongside of the trail mid-way between the top of Stony Mtn. and the "old coal mine" that's listed on the maps.
...and say "hello" to the resident porcupine on top of Stony Mtn.!!!
Just a FYI I know last year was very dry, I cannot imagine that the case this year with all the storms. Water is everywhere here in PA.
Strategic
08-26-2009, 18:38
Just back from my section, tired as all hell from rock-hopping but a fine four days all the same. Here's what I found:
On 8/22:
Black Swatara Spring was flowing very well, too fast to properly estimate, but of course it was just starting to rain again when I was there.:D It's a nice spring with a good deep pool, a bit steep to get down but relatively close to the trail for a PA spring.
The stream about a mile north of Black Swatara was also running strongly.
Upper Sand Spring had a nice deep pool within the enclosure with a very strong outflow. Again, a beautiful spring.
The stream from Yeich Spring (at Eagle's Nest shelter) was a nice strong torrent, but without too much in the way of particulates, even on the morning of 8/23 after the last of the rain Saturday afternoon and night. Many convenient falls right at the blue blaze to collect from. I also like the log seat set above the little ravine it's in, a very nice (and subtle) piece of wilderness architecture.
On 8/23:
The stream just north of Shartlesville Road was running well, with several seep springs and plenty of water. There are pools deep enough to easily collect.
Philip's Canyon Spring was running, but seemed to only be producing about 3-4 liters a minute or so, the only spring in this section that seemed weak at all.
Pocohontas Spring was running very well from both outlets. A reasonably deep pool, but I can see how it could be a difficult dip in dryer weather.
Minnehaha Spring was running well, though not as strong as Pocohontas. This is also a shallower and more difficult spring.
Furnace Creek was an impressive torrent. I suspect that the watershed authorities may have been releasing extra water, but don't know for sure.
On 8/24:
The stream at Windsor Furnace shelter was running strongly, no problems at all dipping up from pool or cascade on this one. The water was good and clear, with no floaters.
Gold Spring was flowing out of every possible exit point. Both the main and secondary improved outlets were flowing very well, but there were also two large seep springs flowing out near them. A fantastic spring with nice pools and very close to the trail.
Panther Creek was flowing impressively over it's rocks where the trail bridges it. Plenty of water and easy to dip up.
On 8/25:
Dan's Spring is flowing very well, at least six liters a minute out of the pipe alone. A bit steep going down, but not too far off the trail and an excellent piped spring.
The Blue Spring at Allentown shelter is running, but seems a bit sluggish. It was a difficult operation to dip with my water bag (I use a gravity filter) as there was a lot of silt at the bottom and it stirred easily. Neither of the pools were very deep and the flow was moderate. I did not go down to Yellow Spring, but given that Blue is flowing, it seems virtually certain to be in better shape.
On 8/26:
The spring at New Tripoli campsite is flowing well, no problems dipping up.
The upper spring at Bake Over Knob shelter is just a damp patch with nothing to collect. The lower (well, second technically) spring is flowing reasonably, but I wouldn't be taking bets on for how long.
Last of all, the spring at Outerbridge shelter is running very well. It's a small spring, but very nicely set up.
That's what I have for now. It looks like a fair number of this year's SOBOs will be having a pretty easy time with water, more than has been normal.
Thank you for your excellent report!
shelterbuilder
08-27-2009, 22:21
Yes, thank you.
Folks who don't live around here may not realize it, but many of the springs that Strategic mentioned are at or very near the top of the ridge. For these to have this much water still flowing this late in the summer, you KNOW it's been a wet year.
Now, if we can just get some "mushable snow"....
YeOldeBackpacker informed me today the spring at Eagle's Nest Shelter is running. It's one of Berks County's ridgetop springs which can run dry by mid- if-not-late summer. This may be good news for southbounders just passing through Port Clinton or departing in the afternoon after a late arrival the previous day.
Scott's been monitoring natural water sources with the help of hikers who visit his business. Stop in soon after arriving in town for assistance with local information and to help him keep trail-related information current for other hikers.
Scott reports the best place to obtain water is at 75 Penn Street, a white house with black shutters. The owner has a hose out front available 24 hours a day.
I'll leave this information up for now, but will secure the homeowner's permission to retain it before my editing priviledges expire. Although it was provided to me with the understanding I'd post it, still the invitation should be broadcast here only with the homeowners's consent.
Please be considerate of others who follow in our footsteps. We wouldn't want someone to regret his generosity and rescind his offer of assistance.
Hoop Time
09-03-2009, 23:27
Stopped by the Scott Farm this afternoon to take a look at the register there and get a feel for the flow of SOBOs. Recent entry said spring at Darlington remains completely dry. Folks should be sure to heed the warning signs that remind you to fill up at the small streams on either side of the mountain.
truthisnature
09-05-2009, 17:14
Rausch Gap shelter, the water is running nicely here.
truthisnature
09-06-2009, 19:23
Spring at the William Penn Shelter. Out of the pipe it took me 1 min. 20 seconds to fill my quart bottle. However there is alot of water flowing around the area of the pipe.
truthisnature
09-06-2009, 19:27
Oh yeah, southbound a few minutes before going under Rt 81 there was a spring running quite steady. Not sure of the name...there were some wooden arrows on a tree by the trail but any wording is long gone.
1 min. 20 seconds to fill my quart bottle.
Thanks for the flow information. I'd been wondering about it and the spring on Eagle's Nest Shelter's access trail. I'm hoping to see a report on it within the next few days.
There hasn't been much rainfall in Berks lately. In fact, according to Middle Atlantic River Forecast Center, all Pennsylvania and New Jersey counties are 75% or more below the norm for the period beginning a week ago. It will be a good idea to be pay closer attention to our springs in the coming weeks should we not get more rain soon.
I heard from Trooper this morning who indicated water was still flowing across the access trail to Eagle's Nest Shelter this past weekend. Water is drawn from shallow pools there rather a pipe, so quantifying flow is not as simple as with some other sources. Still I got the impression it might not hold out much longer.
Current information on SGL 110 water sources would be desireable. Anyone hiking there, please post your observations. Hikers should realize they may need to obtain water on Sand Spring Trail. More information on alternates for Yeich Spring may be found in the Eagle's Nest Shelter thread.
Southbounders at Port Clinton would be wise to carry water and inquire at Ye Olde Backbacker for current information and query northbounders encountered on the trail.
I believe Yeich may be a reference to Edwin B. Yeich, a BMECC member in the 1940s who wrote an article entitled The Blue Mountain Eagle Climbing Club and the Appalachian Trail published in the January 1945 issue of Berks Historical Review. Shelterbuilder may have further information since he is the first person I know to have used the name.
shelterbuilder
09-12-2009, 21:48
I heard from Trooper this morning who indicated water was still flowing across the access trail to Eagle's Nest Shelter this past weekend. Water is drawn from shallow pools there rather a pipe, so quantifying flow is not as simple as with some other sources. Still I got the impression it might not hold out much longer.
Current information on SGL 110 water sources would be desireable. Anyone hiking there, please post your observations. Hikers should realize they may need to obtain water on Sand Spring Trail. More information on alternates for Yeich Spring may be found in the Eagle's Nest Shelter thread.
Southbounders at Port Clinton would be wise to carry water and inquire at Ye Olde Backbacker for current information and query northbounders encountered on the trail.
I believe Yeich may be a reference to Edwin B. Yeich, a BMECC member in the 1940s who wrote an article entitled The Blue Mountain Eagle Climbing Club and the Appalachian Trail published in the January 1945 issue of Berks Historical Review. Shelterbuilder may have further information since he is the first person I know to have used the name.
I see that, as usual, emerald's knowledge of local history far exceeds that of the average hiker - and I include myself in that group! I'm just a lowly shelterbuilder - my knowledge comes from the maps that we were using at the time that the Eagle's Nest Shelter was being built. The original shelter site (which was not chosen by me, but had been a "site under consideration" for several years prior to my joining the club in the 80's) was located on a relatively flat piece of ground between the run-off from 2 prominent (if seasonal) springs: Greisinger's Spring to the west of the site, and Yeich's Spring to the east. While Greisinger's Spring was walled (as was the habit in the 19th and 20th centuries) to protect the source from debris, Yeich's Spring was an altogether different kind of water source - rather than flowing from a single point, Yeich's Spring flows out of a large wet "seep" which is actually visible from the AT and is often mistaken for a "campsite" in drier weather (this is on Pa. Game Lands, in from the dirt road "just a stone's throw"). As you walk "downhill" out of the seep area and follow the topography, you begin to be able to see the ravine through which the water flows. There are several pools on the Game Lands which are adequate for dipping water, but the last reliable pools are at the point where the blue trail to the shelter crosses the ravine. Downhill from here, the water begins to flow underground for a considerable distance, and only a desparate man would venture down the ravine from here. However, given the amount of rainfall that we've had during the past week, I doubt that anyone will find the need to "follow downhill" this week.:rolleyes:
Decades ago, the AT used to follow the Game Commission's dirt road along the top of the ridge from Rt. 183 to the old Ney's shelter (just beyond the Auburn - Shartlesville cross-mountain road). If you look at the old AT maps (the old black-and-white ones), you'll see that Greisinger Spring was listed as a water source during this time, and access was provided from the dirt road via a footpath. But because Yeich's Spring didn't have a single-point source, it was not considered to be an important water source for hikers at that time.
I'd be interested to read that article by Mr. Yeich - I find the early history and writings of early club members enlightening: these little articles often show us how we've arrived at where we are today!
We're heading out next weekend, just a 2 day weekend hike from rt 183 to Port Clinton. I'm guessing that after 5 days of rain that we won't have any problems finding water in those parts..
Panzer
I'll see that you get a copy, sb. I always figured Greisinger was a reference to a club member too, but I know even less about him than Mr. Yeich. You may also have not known about another Historical Review article published in 1959 by an Allan Goldman.
Mr. Goldman's article includes a story about Ney's Tavern which may not be true, but it's good reading anyway. I'm sure you will enjoy it.
The annual incarnation of this thread is becoming a tradition and one worth retaining and improving. The one improvement I would most like to see is participation from habitual hikers south of Cumberland Valley.
Does anyone know of someone who hikes regularly on Michaux State Forest who might be willing to post updates to our thread? If not, then we should look into seeking assistance from sectioners who post here indicating they intend to hike there. We've seen many good posts from WhiteBlaze's sectioners to our Pennsylvania water threads.
Jaybird62
09-13-2009, 17:35
As of last weekend, the spring at Peters Mountain shelter was flowing good and COLD!!! :)
September 19 and 20, 2009 we hiked the 14 mile stretch from route 183 to port Clinton. I would say a hiker would have no problem finding water in this stretch.
Pine spring was running good.
Sand Spring was running very good. This is the walled spring 300 yards off the trail.
The spring at the Eagles Nest shelter was running very good.
There was a small unnamed string that crossed the trail 2 miles north of the shelter that was running ok.
Those were the only strings that I saw with my own eyes. I suspect that other large springs that I didn't see like Black Swatara were also running because the ground was so wet and muddy in many places.
Panzer
The one improvement I would most like to see is participation from habitual hikers south of Cumberland Valley.
I get the impression water sources might be more stable in that physiographic province, unless it gets really DRY DRY DRY again.
I would say a hiker would have no problem finding water in this stretch.
Thanks for your report.
There was a small, unnamed spring that crossed the trail 2 miles north of the shelter that was running ok.
I believe you refer to what was once the water source for Ney's Shelter. Somewhere on some old, dusty paper I once held, a club member referred to it as Ox Spring. I couldn't say where I saw it and I don't know why it was so named. It was a good, walled spring I remember well with a cover on it.
Trooper posted today on his hike from PA 183 to Swatara Gap. He found water at Blue Mountain Spring and elsewhere. To read his post, go there (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=897752&postcount=50).
September 26,2009
Saturday, went back to AT near PA route 183 and hiked to "Black Swatara" spring. I would say it was running OK. This was just before all the rain on Saturday.
Panzer
To get some idea whether AT hikers can depend upon natural water sources in Berks County, refer to Middle Atlantic River Forecast Center's 30-day (http://www.erh.noaa.gov/marfc/Maps/PANY_counties_30_color.htm) and 7-day (http://www.erh.noaa.gov/marfc/Maps/PANY_counties_7_color.htm) precipitation departure maps, NWS data (http://www.weather.gov/data/obhistory/KRDG.html) collected at Reading Regional Airport/Carl A. Spaatz Field in Bern Township and NWS's 7-day forecast for Port Clinton (http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Port+Clinton&state=PA&site=PHI&textField1=40.5822&textField2=-76.0247&e=0).
To read the entire quoted post for more information, click on the blue arrow.
Hikers considering a fall foliage hike in the coming weeks should be aware Pennsylvania's A.T. counties have received little or no rain the last seven days and some of the weaker ridgetop springs may be unreliable. There's a possibility of rain Tuesday night and Wednesday, but whether we get some or not remains to be seen.
Anyone hiking Pennsylvania's A.T. in the next few weeks please report your observations here or if you prefer PM them to me and I will post them.
10/10/09- The Blue spring was only a small puddle and not flowing. The yellow spring was flowing great. Plan for a bit of a hike because its almost 1/2 mile from the shelter down a very rocky trail.
shelterbuilder
10-25-2009, 20:10
...to borrow a line from a current pop hit - but after the TORRENTIAL rain Saturday afternoon, the springs on the section between Swatara Gap and Rt. 645 are OVERFLOWING! Yesterday, the campsite on the ridgetop above the William Penn Shelter was under 2 inches of water, and most of the trail for 2 miles south of this point was under at least an inch of water. It almost seemed as if I was hiking in early June instead of late October.
This morning, most of the trail was drying out (and so was I). But I suspect that anywhere this system went through, there's PLENTY of water...for now, at least.
With the Precipitation Departure from Normal map for the last 7 days indicating normal to +25% or better for A.T. counties, I'd think natural water sources should be in good shape. If someone knows conditions to be otherwise, please post specifics.
Anyone know of developed sources which are now turned off for the winter months or can be expected to be turned off anytime soon? What about the water source at Kirkridge Shelter?
ohmeringue
11-29-2009, 16:31
Hey everyone - How about updates in the year 2009 and for coming year 2010 when you arrive at a certain watering hole?
Thanks
Why would there be a need to post about the availability of water at a watering hole? Far as I know Port Clinton Hotel has never run dry, except during Prohibition.;)
Strategic
05-27-2010, 19:59
emerald,
The requests for PA water info have begun again (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1017348#post1017348) for the season. Maybe we need to revive this thread in a new incarnation for 2010?
I didn't see your request until now since I increasingly spend less time here and pay more attention to A.T. questions and issues closer to home which I believe have now been pretty much covered. Still, questions will continue to be asked and keeping related information together is a good idea.
Your reports have been some of the best. Someone new should lead off and recruit new contributors. Start a new thread with a title including 2010 to distinguish it from the previous two threads and link it to this thread. Link, copy-and-paste and update specific posts of mine or portions of them as you wish. I'm certain I linked the 2008 thread to this one already.
By linking new to old and vice versa, copying and pasting, editing, updating and adding details each new thread builds upon the foundation of information gathered previously and ought to be better than earlier efforts. Threads to date contributed something of value, even adding to information provided by Guide to the Appalachian Trail in Pennsylvania, but I believe there's less change from year-to-year than some may be lead to believe and conditions vary mostly in response to rainfall and are pretty much predictable.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62515 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=62515)