View Full Version : How to tell when your dog is ready for a long hike?
Jack Tarlin
08-02-2009, 14:40
How to tell when your dog is ready for a long hike?
*First, is it grown? Puppies or yearlings have no place on a long hike.
*Have you hiked with it a lot, including being out for several weeks at a time?
Just because your dog enjoys day hikes or weekend excursions does not mean it's ready for a thru-hike.
*How well trained is your dog?
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·Does it respond to voice commands immediately?
·Does it bark or howl?
·Is it OK when you're not around?
·Does it deal well with strangers?
·Does it deal well with children?
·Does it deal well with other dogs, or other animals?
·Is it skittish around strangers, does it snap or jump at people, does it bolt to chase wild animals?
·Does it stay by you when off leash, or does it wander?
·Does it pee wherever it wants, including on things like tents or gear?
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These are all things to consider.
*Are you willing to spend a good deal of time every day tending to your dog's needs and health, i.e. checking its feet frequently; checking for ticks; altering your schedule out of consideration for its health.
*A dog is NOT a pack animal. Are you willing, if necessary, to carry your dog's food, water, and other gear?
*Are you willing, WITHOUT COMPLAINT, to deal with the times where you'll be unable to do what other hikers do and stay where other hikes stay, because you've elected to travel with a dog?
*Are you willing to NEVER expect rules, regulations, policies of hostels, motels, restaurants, etc. to be altered for you, and are you willing to never ask people to make exceptions for you and your pet?
*Are you willing to forego staying in shelters, as there are many, many folks who don't wish to share them with an animal for any number of perfectly valid reasons?
*Are you OK with the fact that many Trail facilities and locations will be barred to you because you're with a dog?
*Are you willing to always obey the rules, regulations, and laws in certain places where dogs are barred, or where leash laws are in effect?
*On the Trail, in trail towns, and elsewhere, are you willing to ALWAYS be vigilant and aware of how your dog's presence and behavior is impacting other people? And are you willing to take immediate action when it's clear that your dog is creating problems?
*Are you willing to NEVER have other people being responsible for your dog, i.e. are you willing to forego certain things, and are you willing to never leave your dog alone and unattended where he might have a negative impact on either the location or the people staying there?
*Are you willing, and I mean REALLY willing to make an effort to clean up after your pet, in camp and elsewhere?
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These are just a few things to consider.
But if your dog doesn't measure up here, or if you're not ready to do all of the above, then no, your dog is not ready for the A.T.
And 95% (at least) of Trail dogs and their owners are not up to the requirements listed above.
Plain and simple, the vast majority of Trail dogs need to stay at home and are better off there, and this is almost always NOT a dog problem, but instead, an owner one.
The plain and simple answer to "Is my dog ready to the-hike the A.T.?" is very simple:
In nearly every case, due to negligence, laziness, or apathy on the part of the owner, the vast majority of the dogs one encounters on the A.T. are NOT ready to be there.
Sorry to say it, but it's the plain truth. Most of them need to go home.
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[I]Article written by Jack Tarlin AKA Baltimore Jack<o></o>
Pacific Tortuga
08-02-2009, 15:32
WOW Jack, you set a high bar. I just do not want them to eat my food, hump my leg, chase wildlife and sleep next to me after a rainy day.
Other than that I can tollerate most canines.
I am not sure if Jack meant to imply that dog owners are prohibited from bringing their animals into shelters or not. Here is what the ATC has to say about the matter (as published at http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805495/k.9C34/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm)
Take special measures at shelters. Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days.
max patch
08-03-2009, 20:30
Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter.[/SIZE]
Thats BS. Your dog should never be in a shelter. Do not put another hiker "on the spot" with such a request.
Thats BS. Your dog should never be in a shelter. Do not put another hiker "on the spot" with such a request.
Seems Odd that the ATC would take such a position.
You would think it against heath regs. In addition to sleeping in shelters, people cook in there!
But that's the ATC's position. Got to respect it (or at least recognize it).
Lone Wolf
08-03-2009, 20:42
Seems Odd that the ATC would take such a position.
You would think it against heath regs. In addition to sleeping in shelters, people cook in there!
But that's the ATC's position. Got to respect it (or at least recognize it).
a lot of folks at the ATC don't hike
·Does it respond to voice commands immediately?
·Does it bark or howl?
·Is it OK when you're not around?
·Does it deal well with strangers?
·Does it deal well with children?
·Does it deal well with other dogs, or other animals?
·Is it skittish around strangers, does it snap or jump at people, does it bolt to chase wild animals?
·Does it stay by you when off leash, or does it wander?
·Does it pee wherever it wants, including on things like tents or gear?
This is a good list for "Are YOU ready for a long hike".
I've met a few hikers who wouldn't pass (most of them hike long distances :D).
max patch
08-03-2009, 20:43
Rick, I think the problem is that the ATC doesn't want to hurt anyones feelings -- gotta keep everyones wallets open for those donations.
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Leash your dog in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter.[/size]
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Thats BS. Your dog should never be in a shelter. Do not put another hiker "on the spot" with such a request.
Read it again - it says "in the shelter area"- not "in the shelter". Subtle difference.
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Huh?
I posted an exact quote from the ATC and provide a link. It says what it says.
I guess like everything else written, it's open to interpretation. If your dog is leashed in the shelter area you will not have it in the shelter unless you get the permission of the others in the shelter.
I, personally, have always been of the opinion that if you bring a dog, bring a large tarp or a tent with a large vestibule, camp a ways away from the shelter, maybe take your dog to visit, but overnight your dog should be in or near your tent/tarp/hammock with you, not nosing around strangers and their belongings.
So I guess I disagree with "my" organization on this point.
cowboy nichols
08-03-2009, 21:07
I would like these rules to aply to humans too. except the leash part ,on second thought some should probably be on a short leash.
Downunda
08-03-2009, 21:59
All dog owners that I came across on the AT who took their dogs into shelters did so without asking if others objected.
I reckon if dogs had any say in it they wouldn't opt for a thru hike... it's the dog owners who seem to get a buzz out of making their dogs hike with them.
Jack Tarlin
08-04-2009, 14:23
Several folks brought up a good point: When you ask permission of other folks, you really are putting them on the spot, i.e. you're pretty much forcing THEM to look like the bad guy if they say "Well yeah, I'd rather your dog wasn't in the shelter". The reality is that lots of folks will suck it up and say nothing because they don't want to look mean in front of other hikers, when in fact, they really DON'T want your dog in the shelter, for any number of perfectly legitimate reasons:
*Dogs in shelters almost always get into or onto other people's stuff, and this
is especially unpleasant when the dog is wet or muddy.
*They've been known to pee on people's stuff in or immediately adjacent to
shelters.
*They beg food and become a real pain in the ass when someone is eating or
cooking in a shelter.
*At a certain point in the year, ALL dogs have vermin, i.e. ticks, fleas, etc.
Most folks aren't interested in sleeping next to or close to infested dogs.
*Quite a few folks are allergic to dogs and don't want to be around them.
*And many folks simply don't care for dogs and don't wish to be that close to
them. Shelters were designed for people, and one's right to enjoy the
company of one's pet ends, period, when that right starts interfering with
the rights of others.
But to get back to asking permission. It's a funny thing, but you see this a lot on the Trail, and it's invariably something like "Does anyone mind if I play the harmonica?" or "Does anyone mind if I make a couple of phone calls?" or
something similar. In short, when asking permission, it's inevitable that these folks KNOW they're requesting "permission" to do something that they KNOW might be found objectionable or questionable by other folks......yet they go ahead and ask "permission" anyway, knowing full well that most folks don't want to look like the bad guy and will therefore stay mum.
In short, asking permission of your fellow hikers should be pretty much a red flag to yourself.......if you're about to engage in activity or behavior that you suspect (or know) that someone is likely to object to, well spare everyone the trouble. Don't put people on the spot, and don't ask permission. Instead of asking folks to green light behavior that you suspect might be objectionable, it's much more considerate to simply forego that activity, period.
And this includes your dog. When it comes to nighttime, he belongs in your tent.
Amen to that Jack. You hit the nail on the head.
If someone asks you if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter and you don't speak up on how you really feel, then you have no right to b*tch about it. I've had people ask me in camp if its ok for them to smoke a cigarette. I always tell them no, I'm not a smoker nor do I care to be around it. I don't care if it makes me look like a bad person or whatever. At least I have the balls to stand up for how I feel on the trail and not just complain about it on the internet.
True. But. Reality is different. Most people don't want to be the bad guy.
True. But. Reality is different. Most people don't want to be the bad guy.
If you really are against dogs in a shelter or any other scenario you may encounter on the trail, why would you feel like the 'bad guy' for expressing how you feel?
My philosophy has always been that if someone asks a question, they need to be ready to hear my honest answer.
ShelterLeopard
08-10-2009, 02:01
I think this is brilliant- mostly because a lot of people just seem not to ever think of a couple of these things (like needing to alter your schedule to fit your dog's health, not just your own). I know a lot of people who arrive at hostels and other places and are royally irritated when the owner won't change the rule for them, and feel like they're being abused. Or they simply don't pay any attention and it turns out the dog is really bothering someone and is badly trained.
To sum up, good post!
ShelterLeopard
08-10-2009, 02:01
Although I must say, I think it is alright to have your dog carry his own food, maybe even some of his own water. They're very capable creatures who like to feel useful.
ShelterLeopard
08-10-2009, 02:03
a lot of folks at the ATC don't hike
A lot of ATC folks have never spent a night in a shelter with an untrained and wet dog.
CrumbSnatcher
08-10-2009, 13:14
Although I must say, I think it is alright to have your dog carry his own food, maybe even some of his own water. They're very capable creatures who like to feel useful.
I RESPECT YOUR OPIONION,AND ALOT OF DOGS CAN AND DO ENJOY WEARING A PACK! BUT imo YOU NEVER LOAD WATER ON A DOG! YOU CANT SECURE THE WATER BOTTLES PROPERLY IN A DOG PACK WITHOUT THE WATER SWAYING BACK AND FORTH. IN A HUMAN PACK THE WATER BOTTLE OR PLATTY IS USUALLY SECURE AND UPRIGHT. I SEE THE WATER IN THE DOG PACK ROLLING AROUND OR SWAYING INSIDE THE BOTTLE AND CAN AND PROBABLY WILL THROW THE DOG OFF BALANCE?. HOW MUCH WATER WE TALKING ABOUT?
sheepdog
08-10-2009, 14:31
Seems Odd that the ATC would take such a position.
You would think it against heath regs. In addition to sleeping in shelters, people cook in there!
But that's the ATC's position. Got to respect it (or at least recognize it).
I don't believe anything in a shelter meets health regs.
sheepdog
08-10-2009, 14:36
All dog owners that I came across on the AT who took their dogs into shelters did so without asking if others objected.
I reckon if dogs had any say in it they wouldn't opt for a thru hike... it's the dog owners who seem to get a buzz out of making their dogs hike with them.
If a dog had any say, it would usually want to be with its master. My dog hates to be left behind. Dogs are strong, agile and athletic. A thru hike is nothing to a fit dog.
wrongway_08
08-10-2009, 15:01
Health regs.... ha, dogs are cleaner then any of us smelly ass hikers. Better manners 98% of the time also.
But anyways..... I let my dog carry his days worth of food and snacks. Light jacket and his water bowl (small ones that cost a dollar from wally world). Usually less then 3 pounds. I like having the pack on for control and it helps protect him from rock cuts as he runs around rocks and climbs them.
It depends on the dog also. Erwin - who I adopted on my thru last year, loves to hike and be active all the time. He will do 20 miles days and still want to keep going.
My other dog, Hudson, likes to hike but only for around 8 - 10 miles a day and only for 2 - 3 days at a time. He likes to get worn out enough to be ready for a long night of tv watching by my feet :) !
ShelterLeopard
08-10-2009, 16:10
I RESPECT YOUR OPIONION,AND ALOT OF DOGS CAN AND DO ENJOY WEARING A PACK! BUT imo YOU NEVER LOAD WATER ON A DOG! YOU CANT SECURE THE WATER BOTTLES PROPERLY IN A DOG PACK WITHOUT THE WATER SWAYING BACK AND FORTH. IN A HUMAN PACK THE WATER BOTTLE OR PLATTY IS USUALLY SECURE AND UPRIGHT. I SEE THE WATER IN THE DOG PACK ROLLING AROUND OR SWAYING INSIDE THE BOTTLE AND CAN AND PROBABLY WILL THROW THE DOG OFF BALANCE?. HOW MUCH WATER WE TALKING ABOUT?
As I said in the line you quoted, maybe SOME of his water.
PS- It gets really hard to read when you capitalize everything (just to let you know).
hikers dream of hiking all day, dogs dream of sleeping all day.
Panzer
CrumbSnatcher
08-10-2009, 17:54
As I said in the line you quoted, maybe SOME of his water.
PS- It gets really hard to read when you capitalize everything (just to let you know).thankyou sorry i didn't capitalize on purpose! im not a putor person at all. the less water you put in the containers would make it swish around and sway even more maybe?
ShelterLeopard
08-10-2009, 18:54
thankyou sorry i didn't capitalize on purpose! im not a putor person at all. the less water you put in the containers would make it swish around and sway even more maybe?
I understand- I never used to be a computor person either. And let me say, I have only hiked with a dog a couple times, and I am nothing near an expert (though I know a bunch of other dog people who hike with their dogs). But I've found that putting one or two full small poland spring bottles works fine. Since they're full, it doesn't slosh around (of course, I still end up carrying more than half of his water). And since it was only a couple days, he didn't carry much food.
CrumbSnatcher
08-10-2009, 19:18
I understand- I never used to be a computor person either. And let me say, I have only hiked with a dog a couple times, and I am nothing near an expert (though I know a bunch of other dog people who hike with their dogs). But I've found that putting one or two full small poland spring bottles works fine. Since they're full, it doesn't slosh around (of course, I still end up carrying more than half of his water). And since it was only a couple days, he didn't carry much food.
cool:cool:
SassyWindsor
08-10-2009, 20:39
You can tell when your dog is ready for a long hike about as accurately as that of another hiker. Heck, about as good as yourself.
Assuming "ready" means physically and mentally ready. I'd say they were "ready" for a long hike just after they finished one.
billymets71
08-25-2009, 22:43
Let us all remember a few basic facts on what the AT is about as well as what any trail is about.
- WE are the visitors to the only area man has left to the wild. WE blazed a trail through the animal's territory. In my view, my dog has more right to be there than I do. My dog doesn't leave non-biodegradable garbage on the trail. My dog does not burn down forests or shelters or leave unsightly black fire rings behind, my dog doesn't carve his name into trees, shelters, etc.
- My DOG is the health concern in the shelters? You're kidding, right?
- To the poster who commented on ticks, fleas, etc. News flash- THEY'RE ALREADY THERE- it's the DEER tick that causes the problem. Should we kick the deer out, too? Spiders, snakes, skunks, bears?
I just think it's a bit ignorant and selfish to take the position that my dog doesn't belong. I have a very well behaved golden retiever, he doesn't howl, bark, eat other's food, pee on anyone's stuff and obeys my every command. I understand that he may be more the exception, and when all is said and done, if someone has a problem with him being in the shelter, then speak up. I know the "rules" and we will camp outdoors. WE didn't create the wilderness, we just wore down a path to walk through it.
Bottom line is lighten up, speak up, or shut up.
Lone Wolf
08-25-2009, 22:46
dogs do not belong in shelters. a considerate owner knows this and always camps out
superman
08-25-2009, 23:36
dogs do not belong in shelters. a considerate owner knows this and always camps out
Yup, I agree. I was just hiking in the White Mountains including a loop going north out of Gorham. Pat and I met two thru hikers with dogs. They were great people with great dogs. One of the dogs was being picked up by the woman's husband in Gorham. It was a beautifully trained dog that missed it's master so bad. The woman was sending her dog home simply because it was easier to send the dog home from Gorham than wait until Baxter.
JoshStover
08-25-2009, 23:57
If someone asks you if its ok to bring a dog into a shelter and you don't speak up on how you really feel, then you have no right to b*tch about it. I've had people ask me in camp if its ok for them to smoke a cigarette. I always tell them no, I'm not a smoker nor do I care to be around it. I don't care if it makes me look like a bad person or whatever. At least I have the balls to stand up for how I feel on the trail and not just complain about it on the internet.
That is EXACTLY what I was going to say. I know that my dog behaves better than several people I have meet on the trail. I by no means want to upset anyone with my dog but unless they tell me that my dog bothers them I cant really know how they feel. I love my dog with all my heart but there is no way I would let him make someone uncomfartable...
quote by: billymets71
Let us all remember a few basic facts on what the AT is about as well as what any trail is about.
- WE are the visitors to the only area man has left to the wild. WE blazed a trail through the animal's territory. In my view, my dog has more right to be there than I do. My dog doesn't leave non-biodegradable garbage on the trail. My dog does not burn down forests or shelters or leave unsightly black fire rings behind, my dog doesn't carve his name into trees, shelters, etc.
- My DOG is the health concern in the shelters? You're kidding, right?
- To the poster who commented on ticks, fleas, etc. News flash- THEY'RE ALREADY THERE- it's the DEER tick that causes the problem. Should we kick the deer out, too? Spiders, snakes, skunks, bears?
I just think it's a bit ignorant and selfish to take the position that my dog doesn't belong. I have a very well behaved golden retiever, he doesn't howl, bark, eat other's food, pee on anyone's stuff and obeys my every command. I understand that he may be more the exception, and when all is said and done, if someone has a problem with him being in the shelter, then speak up. I know the "rules" and we will camp outdoors. WE didn't create the wilderness, we just wore down a path to walk through it.
Bottom line is lighten up, speak up, or shut up.
__________________________________________________ ____________
WOW!:eek: That is the EXACT same way I was feeling. I have a wonderful Golden Retriever too and he is PERFECT. I have never had anyone complain about him but I also keep him away from people in the shelter just to make sure he doesnt bother anyone. Just because we are animal lovers it doesnt mean everyone else is and we have to respect their feelings. I just can't imagine not loving dogs.
Worst Article Ever: why not have someone who has actually hiked with a dog to write the article on dogs, not someone who is very negative about dogs!!!!!
saimyoji
08-26-2009, 00:27
i do believe jack has hiked with dogs before, or at least around them enough to know what pisses him off about them. unless they're wrapped in a bun with mustard and relish. chased with bourbon of course. :cool:
i do not think dogs belong in shelters at all. if i ever do a long distance hike again and i take my dog with me we will camp far away from others unless we are invited to be near but we are still going to erect a tent and have our own space......
my dog is teaching me right now that this house is her domain and she means to protect it and its inhabitants. so with that message it is very clear to me that she, like other dogs, demand their own space....
so i would almost bet that sleeping in a shelter for a dog would be a bit uncomfortable with strangers around........even though they may come across as it is okay with them it may not be......
so i would almost bet that sleeping in a shelter for a dog would be a bit uncomfortable with strangers around........even though they may come across as it is okay with them it may not be......
you would almost bet??? so you've never slept in a shelter with a dog? but you've slept in shelters with mice and rats...
Why is Superman/Winter's article not in this section? Why is Jack the only 'expert' in the dog section?
Blue Jay
08-26-2009, 10:00
you would almost bet??? so you've never slept in a shelter with a dog? but you've slept in shelters with mice and rats...
I like dogs but I prefer mice and rats for several reasons. None have ever bitten me and even if they did, their owners would not then immediately tell me "he's never done that before". They are very quiet. When they are missing their owners do not stumble around shelters all night calling for them. They have never wiped their muddy feet on my sleeping bag, when they cross it they leave no trace. As far as I know no one has ever brought one into a shelter on purpose, knowing it would piss off others.
Alligator
08-26-2009, 10:13
We could probably use a better subforum heading here, but this is not the released articles section. This subforum is for peer review of submitted articles. Anyone wanting to write a counter article or something deemed better is also free to write one up and submit it here.
Two Speed
08-26-2009, 10:35
We could probably use a better subforum heading here, but this is not the released articles section. This subforum is for peer review of submitted articles. . .Then why does it show on WB's main page with the rest of the released articles?
Alligator
08-26-2009, 11:48
Then why does it show on WB's main page with the rest of the released articles?I didn't know it was doing that. I think it is because it was originally put there but had not been vetted yet. I moved it because it hadn't gone through the review process that was set up, it went from a suggestion straight to the released articles section. Right now it is not in the released articles section. It could use a further comment period, a competing article, or perhaps a collaboration with another author. Since you are one of the dog forum mods TS, perhaps you can solicit some help in getting something like that done:).
The Articles forum set up is different than the other oforums, but I will try to figure out why it still links to this article on the homepage. I will also talk to the other admins about the Article submission process.
Two Speed
08-26-2009, 12:19
Probably can. In the meantime, thanks for moving the article.
I don't think a dog has any business sleeping in a shelter unless there are no other occupants and the hiker/dog are willing to move if someone shows up (yep, just move, without putting the new arrival on the spot for permission to stay). But a well behaved dog might be OK tied up using a short leash near a shelter while its master puts up a tent, filters water, cooks dinner, etc. Then the dog would spend the night with the owner who is tenting, tarping, etc.
Jack is right. 95% of dogs should not be on a long hike (as lengthy as an AT thru-hike, for sure). But a much lower percentage could do well on a small portion of a thru-hike in many places the AT is routed, a section hike of two to four weeks, or weekend excursions.
In this article, aside from canine behavioral issues, the best questions are those put to the hiker himself or herself. Topping the list would be those having to do with putting a dog's needs ahead of the hiker's.
you would almost bet??? so you've never slept in a shelter with a dog? but you've slept in shelters with mice and rats...
that's not the point here, i think i need to stay respectful of others and my dog.........
Like most articles by Jack he knows what he is talking about. I as a past thru-hiker and have to agree, totaly, with his post.
Most want to be thru-hikers who include a dog tremendously limit their ability to finish a thru. Without a dog the odds are 2 in 10 will finish. With a dog it's probably more like 1 in 20.
Most folks who comment in favor of bring a dog on the trail have not spent long lenghts of time hiking the AT. Without doing that they have probably not experienced dogs in the water soarce, tracking mud and water into a shelter, barking at night, getting into hikers food, peeing a tent or sleeping bag or snaping at hikers. All of these happened to me on my thru-hike.
I am not an anti dog person. Most of my life I have owned one. I also thru-hiked with a wounderful dog, in 2001, named Marvin the Wounder Dog and his considerate owner.
Jack Tarlin
08-26-2009, 19:55
Wow. This is getting contentious, which is too bad. A few quick comments:
I'm not anti-dog, I'm not "negative" about dogs, I don't dislike dogs. The people I live with just got two Jack Russell terrier pups and I've spent a great deal of time with them in the last few weeks. They're a blast.
So please, spare me the "You hate dogs so your comments are worthless!" remarks. I don't hate them, I never have, and don't have a problem with them.
I do however feel that they are frequently a problem on the Trail, and when this happens, I don't blame the dog, I instead blame the owner. A "bad dog" problem on the Trail is almost invariably an OWNER problem, but if some folks get overly defensive about this and want to interpret my comments as being anti-dog, well there is isn't much I can do about it. Calling someone names like "dog hater!" helps detract from the simple truth that most people who choose to hike with a dog either don't know or worse, don't particularly care how the presence of their dog impacts other people.
Also, someone wondered about who appointed me to be dog "expert" here. Well, nobody did. I certainly didn't. And my comments here weren't originally meant to be "expert" advice and weren't even originally meant to be an article. I posted the comments on another thread; several folks suggested that the comments would make for a good article; website administrators very kindly asked if they could use the comments for that purpose.
I said sure.
So no, my comments were never meant to be the last word or any sort of "expert" commentary." They were merely meant to provoke discussion and dialogue.
That being said, I stand by my original comments. I have known many Trail dogs, and contrary to what some folks have said, I've hiked many miles with dogs, and had a greqat time doing so. There are many Trail dogs that are a joy to be around, partly because they are great animals and partly because they have wonderful, considerate, and caring owners.
That being said, the majority of dogs I've encountered on the Trail would be better off at home, both for their own sakes, and for the sakes of those who end up sharing the Trail with them.
And saying this makes one neither "negative" or a dog hater.
warraghiyagey
08-26-2009, 20:13
You know your dog is ready for a long hike when he's eaten all the neighborhood cats. . .
aquaman1208
08-26-2009, 21:51
I have a couple of dogs and have taken them out for hikes but have found their comfort level with day hikes. They seem to be uneasy with a new place to sleep every night and react poorly to noises and movements of other hikers. Gotta tent for the benefit of other hikers. Also while walking all day on uneven rocks their paws can get raw and you have to watch that. That being said I have hiked with freinds and their dogs that were a great team and it was an amazing bond between them. Just north of Erwin in '04 a dog named Niagara, a black lab I think, was determined to have me for dinner and kept after me for a couple of clicks. Really the only thing I worry about are farm dogs and dogs living off the land. And Niagara.
Baltomorescorner
08-31-2009, 01:39
First off i do agree with the things you are saying that a dog that does not listen or the owner that just assumes their dog is a human should not even be on the trail on the first place...
But im curious about your opinion to this...I have a little of 2 year old golden retriever that i never use a leash on unless its going into petsmart. I plan on bringing him on my section hike of about 415 miles. He is well trained listens to my every word and does not bother people if i do not let him. He is very friendly and just an all around great dog who just loves life.
Do you have any tips or precautions to take while bringing my dog along?
Do you have any tips or precautions to take while bringing my dog along?
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805495/k.9C34/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm
Baltomorescorner
08-31-2009, 11:04
i have already read that multiple times I was looking for other opinions. But thank you I do appreciate it
SOBO 2011
09-04-2009, 16:51
Although I have yet to hike the trail, I do have some problems with what people are saying...
"hikers dream of hiking all day, dogs dream of sleeping all day." This is the dumbest thing I have ever read... you must not have a dog! or if you do it is a lazy breed (which there are some) Most dogs love to be outside and when looking some different types of dogs in this country, most are NOT getting enough excercise and get in to trouble. Such is the case with pit-bulls, boxers, and any hearding dog. These dogs would have a much easier time with the hike then the fittest human you could find.
Now as for the shelters.... I do agree that an owner and his dog should spend most of their time in a tent, very much so if the dog is wet and/or not trained well. But to talk about a dog not being as clean when you have hikers who have not showered weeks is a bit silly. As long as the owner checks for ticks and other creatures then the dog is cleaner than an unshowered human. I think that if an owner and their dog get to a shelter and people arrive after it is not up to the owner to ask premission... others can always move on if they dont like it.... did we somehow forget that this is a free country and we are after all OUTDOORS!!!!!
When talking about in town of off the trail ... I agree with everything said. Do not go looking for special treatment when you were the one who brought the dog along.
Thank You
Lone Wolf
09-04-2009, 17:05
I think that if an owner and their dog get to a shelter and people arrive after it is not up to the owner to ask premission... others can always move on if they dont like it.
wrong. some people are afraid of dogs no matter how frienly you think he is. a courteous owner would never stay in a shelter
superman
09-04-2009, 17:18
wrong. some people are afraid of dogs no matter how frienly you think he is. a courteous owner would never stay in a shelter
This seems like a simple concept but people seem to have trouble understanding it. If you hike the AT with your dog you should have the mind set and the goal that you and your dog are not there to diminish other peoples hike. It avoids a whole raft of situations and potential complaints by bringing and using a tent away from shelters. IMHO
Omega Man
11-12-2009, 14:08
Going North from Springer Mtn., how far can I hike with my dog, before I am forced to take her off the trail?
The Weasel
11-12-2009, 14:12
Basically, Fontana Dam.
TW
Going North from Springer Mtn., how far can I hike with my dog, before I am forced to take her off the trail?
she can't go in the smokey's, you have to make arrangements or skip the smokeys
it really depends on the dog, there are a few rare dogs that can handle the long distance, personally I will never take my dog out for more than a month, thats the longest she's hiked before. you have to really pay attention to your dog, watching for signs of stress, injury. don't plan on pushing your dog too many miles, just because you can handle bigger miles, doesn't mean your dog can,
Jack Tarlin
11-12-2009, 18:43
Glad to see this thread's still going.
Gotta be amused by the guy who actually joined Whiteblaze with the name "Baltomorescorner". :D
I wish Jester were here as he'd certainly have some ideas on this......is this guy a "Baltimore Scorner" who holds me with eveident disdain? Or is he a guy with spelling issues who wants people to know he stands firmly in "Baltimore's Corner"?
Pretty funny, in any case.
Also got to spend some quality time with my landlord's Jack Russells today down by the brook before I went for hike.
The folks who seem to think I have a real problem with dogs might have been surprised. :rolleyes:
I thought the dogs had a pretty good time, and no, our walk down by the brook did not include rope and cinder blocks.
Not a problem here never slept in a shelter with or without my dog. As far as dogs in shelters my vote would be no.
My puppy chow LOVES to hike.:)
I don't feel safe in the woods w/o her.:eek:
She's a chick magnet, and I need all the help I can get!!!:o
I've trained her to pee on people I don't like- while they're in the shelter:banana
This is a good post, if not a little harsh, with many useful sugggestions. I just finished a SOBO with my dog and he was excited to hike nearly everyday. The word "hike" still cannot be said without an enthusiastic response. I did notice many of the things you said: more work, many exclusions, extra pack weight, dog haters, alternated schedule, etc. As for the shelter thing, I stayed in only a few and ONLY when I had it to myself. A tent is a must for more reasons than just keeping other hikers comfortable. It became his home away from home. A safe place. I used Advantix and aside from the occasional tick he never had an "infestation" problem. I too ran into a few dogs that had no business on a thru-hike but it was mostly an unprepared owner at the root of the problem. One thing that I noticed is missing from this article is the added expense. It costs more than just the price of dog food. (By the way, they are going to eat twice as much as at home) Most motels charge a pet fee. A vet visit (or two) is definetly going to happen. Advantix isn't cheap. Etc. You might be surprised by the amount of extra cash that is needed to safely get them down the trail with you. All that aside, if done right, a thru with your best friend will reward you in many ways. Happy hiking.
Why is Superman/Winter's article not in this section? Why is Jack the only 'expert' in the dog section?
Jack is the 'expert' on everything. :rolleyes:
Rain Man
01-12-2010, 10:06
And saying this makes one neither "negative" or a dog hater.
I agree, though too many people engage in a form of "double-speak" and use the pejorative, dyslogistic term "dog hater" to demonize the victims of bad dog owners.
In my opinion, many falsely so-called "dog haters" are the true dog lovers. It's the bad owners who are more truthfully dog haters.
The term "dog hater" is just a red flag, in more ways than one. To me, it identifies the person using it, more correctly than it identifies the victims rightly complaining of the bad conduct.
I would say if the double-speak term "dog hater" is in your vocabulary, then you are not ready to take your dog on a long hike, even if your dog is.
I have dogs, love dogs, and have run into very fine dogs and very fine dog owners on the AT. I'm no dog hater just because I "hate" the very bad conduct of some dogs' owners.
Rain:sunMan
.
SGT Rock
01-12-2010, 11:13
Yep. I've been the victim of the "dog hater" label before. My dogs don't seem to think I hate dogs.:-?
CrumbSnatcher
01-12-2010, 11:56
i'm happy that my dog and myself hiked all of our miles before joining WB
didn't realize we were breaking so many rules! i could give a **** less about all you dog haters
Jack Tarlin
01-12-2010, 18:03
This isn't supposed to be "expert" commentary.
Phreak, this is an old thread. I suggest you go and read Post #49 from way back in August.
There are good dog owners and bad dog owners. There are ones who can rationally discuss matters and there are those who take everything personally, especially the lsightest criticism of their pets.
Whenever this subject somes up (i.e. a discussion of dogs and dog behavior on the Trail) there's an immediate response from folks who go on defensive mode, and their response is to either fault the critic ("You don't know what you're talking about!!) or to villify the critic as a dog or animal hater.
In many, if not most cases, this criticism is uncalled for.
So no, I'm not an expert on this subject and freely acknowledge this. But I've encountered a lot of dogs out there and a lot of dog owners. If your experience with dogs is different than mine, then tell us about it, i.e. instead of criticizing me, tell us why you feel differently.
Truth be told, most Trail dogs are better off at home, and truth be told, in all likelihood, THEY are happier there, too.
Pittmama75
01-28-2010, 07:36
So i'm new to all this... I have 3 young dogs that i'm still training but are very active. I want to take them for a day hike or a few day hike to relax myself and get away, they have little back pack to work, since they are working dogs and are always with me. They need to be outdoors and be socialized to new things that's why i was considering hiking, but it seems like everyone is so dog unfriendly that i shouldn't bother trying. I used to go and hike everywhere with my border collie and haven't been for awhile now... she couldn't do more than 2 or 3 miles towards the end. So should i not even bother trying to hike with my unwanted dogs, since the one does occassionally bark or talk back when he is ignored... he's 6 months and i'm working on it. But sometimes you can't train a dog to handle a situation if it's never in that situation...
So i'm new to all this... I have 3 young dogs that i'm still training but are very active. I want to take them for a day hike or a few day hike to relax myself and get away, they have little back pack to work, since they are working dogs and are always with me. They need to be outdoors and be socialized to new things that's why i was considering hiking, but it seems like everyone is so dog unfriendly that i shouldn't bother trying. I used to go and hike everywhere with my border collie and haven't been for awhile now... she couldn't do more than 2 or 3 miles towards the end. So should i not even bother trying to hike with my unwanted dogs, since the one does occassionally bark or talk back when he is ignored... he's 6 months and i'm working on it. But sometimes you can't train a dog to handle a situation if it's never in that situation...
You should hike with your dogs if that is what you want to do. You should continue working on their training and trail manners.
You know your dog is ready for the trail when they learn to be happy a d comfortable for six months on a leash. If you believe that's possible you should reconsider being a dog owner.
I work with dogs for a living, and have a Black Lab who just turned 2 years old. She has only done day hikes with me, and tented only for car camping. I plan on taking her on overnights begining this spring. She will carry a small amount of food, her pack bowls and treats. I would not push her too far for any reason.
My old dog hiked with me many times, never carried a pack because I could never find one that fit him well. Just had a weird build as a mixed breed.
In my experience there are no bad dogs, and Jack has stated this here and elsewhere, but there are bad owners. You must understand that not everybody likes dogs, or even just may not want to share their sleeping quarters with dogs. If you want to take your dog to a place that it is allowed (like much of the trail) but not everybody is there to be with dogs, it is your responsibility to make sure your dog is under control. It is also your responsibility to be ready to sleep elsewhere if someone does not want to sleep near your dog.
Also, if you do not want to sleep next to a dog then you need to speak up about it. I may not be the one to put you in that position and ask, I will just tent anyways, but others may not always be that considerate.
traildust
01-28-2010, 11:59
Baltimore Jack,
Thanks for the reminders. We plan on taking our black lab with us in 2011. This was helpful. We don't stay in shelters unlesss it is an emergency. In our previous attempts we have met several hikers with dogs and never had a problem. It is as rare as coming upon a rude, crude backpacker. But thanks for the helpful dialog.
Miss Janet
01-29-2010, 00:55
When he mopes around with his guide books all over the floor, pictures of Baltimore Jack hanging above his food bowl, and deep sighs coming from him whenever he sees white rectangles of any size...
Kel, the "Stickman"
03-20-2010, 21:11
A lot of good comments! I myself am a proud "Grandpa" of a sweet little "Grandpup", Misha. Although I enjoy her company, I limit our walks together, to just that, "our" walks together. I would never think to keep her in a shelter when others are present. In completing 800 miles SOBO, I had occasions to hike and camp around others dogs. Since I like dogs, I had little problems relating well to them. Therefore, I had little problem relating to their owners. I never had problems with hikers with dogs... not even with them in the shelters. However... I was fortunate to have plenty of room to keep distance between me, the dog, and the owner! I guess if I was to hike with a dog, I would definitely plan on tenting with it. I do believe in "hiking your own hike", but that act should not interfere with the hiking/shelter of other hikers. Let's just let sleeping dogs lie... ...Misha says, Bow wow, Bow wow wow!
Wise Old Owl
03-30-2010, 23:39
When he mopes around with his guide books all over the floor, pictures of Baltimore Jack hanging above his food bowl, and deep sighs coming from him whenever he sees white rectangles of any size...
Too much!:D
Hmmmm... I wouldn't let this article keep me from bringing my dog. It's an unfortunate thing that it's the only resource here, becuase I think it perpetuates the worst stereotypes of dog-owners. For example, I'm laughing at the notion that "at some point in the year, all dogs are infested with fleas and ticks." Not if you use a preventative year-round... Standard practice for any respectable dog owner. Having a dog on a trail is a joy if done properly. FWIW, I've had great times on the trail with my dog- she's good company, usually runs circles around me, and it's comforting to know that no one will sneak up on me in my tent.
First of all, I'm not sure I'd want my dog camping in a shelter unless we had it to ourselves. In my experience, there are a lot of people who don't know dogs and would make trouble (unintentionally or otherwise). It's better (and probably less mouse-infested) to camp in a tent. You're there to experience the great outdoors anyway, right?
In terms of preparation: At a minimum, speak with your vet and have him/her check the dog before you start any exercise regimen. Talk to the vet about what you expect the dog will face on the trail (be realistic) and ask for tips. There is a vaccination that dogs who are frequently outdoors should get that will prevent Canine Leptospirosis, a disease caused by contact with infected rodent/raccoon/deer/fox urine. Also, you should condition your dog- just as you wouldn't expect a person to hike 10 miles out of the gate, don't expect the same of your dog. Learn and watch for signs of fatigue. Learn and watch for signs of common diseases. Take a first aid for dogs class before you go. Decide with your vet if your dog should wear booties or other foot protection. Decide with your vet if the dog should carry a pack, and how much weight they should carry. Take care that your dog drinks only from the water sources that you do- dogs can get giardia and other diseases too.
The questions asked in this article are good, if only to get people thinking about the kinds of issues that a dog can raise on the trail, as well as perceptions you may encounter in other people on the trail. You'll have to plan differently, pack differently, hike differently, and think differently when going with a dog. It's a little like hiking with a child in that your responsibility to your dog and his or her welfare must be at the forefront of every decision you make, even if it's the painful one to leave him or her behind while you hike.
For dog owners looking for real advice on backpacking with a dog, try this site for annotated links to resources on the web: http://www.dogplay.com/Activities/hike.html (http://www.dogplay.com/Activities/hike.html)
Just as with other hikers, remember that your behavior affects those around you and those who come behind you. Be respectful (look at the other posts to this article for things that annoy people, and avoid doing them), and remember that anyone who will "eek!" or mutter under their breath at the sight of a dog on the trail probably isn't going to be your best bud anyway. Just give them a wide berth and enjoy your hike.
realdusi
11-22-2010, 15:39
"at some point in the year, all dogs are infested with fleas and ticks." Not if you use a preventative year-round... Standard practice for any respectable dog owner.
In terms of preparation: At a minimum, speak with your vet and have him/her check the dog before you start any exercise regimen. Talk to the vet about what you expect the dog will face on the trail (be realistic) and ask for tips. There is a vaccination that dogs who are frequently outdoors should get that will prevent Canine Leptospirosis, a disease caused by contact with infected rodent/raccoon/deer/fox urine. Also, you should condition your dog- just as you wouldn't expect a person to hike 10 miles out of the gate, don't expect the same of your dog.
Great advice! My vet also helped me make a canine first aid kit, and taught me basic canine CPR. I would also HIGHLY recommend booties for any dog doing long distance hiking. I work at a vet hospital now, and it's very hard to wrap and bandage a dog's feet and get the bandage to stay on even if they aren't doing anymore exercise than just walking in the yard. Dog booties can be used to help hold a bandage on, or act as a bandage itself if the dog gets a minor scrape or abrasion on his paw, or yanks a toenail off.
Also everyone should condition with their dog. It's a great way for both of you to get in shape, to get used to hiking together as a team and going over training. Plus dogs make can good exercise partners.
mweinstone
11-22-2010, 19:53
he fakes being lazy but the word hike, even if spelled out, gets him in a tilly.
he sleeps with his nose in your hiking boot
he has ramman breath when you come home
and the number one way to know if hes ready to go thruhiking is,....
stands by the door if you even post on whiteblaze.
It would be fun to hike with a dog but too much work.
on_the_GOEZ
11-22-2010, 22:36
My best friend has a boston terrier which he is convinced is "trail ready" . although he is in physical shape, manners are the important thing when hiking with a dog, especially around shelter. How do you know when he is ready though? take him on an extended shakedown and see how he reacts. I would agree tho: nearly all dogs are not properly trained to hike 2100 miles with other people. a horse yes, a dog, probably not.
I think people misunderstand and underestimate the endurance and mental reliance of vigorous physical activity of the dog. They are a traveling, mile-racking animal by nature. This is, of course, considering only the nautrally built dog, not the Pekingnese or pug of course lol...and each dog is an individual with different endurance levels. But most dogs thrive with multiple miles of challenging exercise every single day and with correct training and maintenance I see no problem with the correctly trained and bred dog thru-hiking the AT.
dog soldier
12-02-2010, 19:11
i always find the dog threads entertaining - poorly trained dogs (owners) are problems whether on a lease or not. dogs that bite should be "put down". if you are afraid to say "no" when asked if someone's dog can sleep in the shelter or if he can play his harmonica poorly-you probably do not have enough backbone to carry your pack. as to shelters, they are nasty enough without somebodies wet dog.
having said that i have my dog with me all the time on the AT and other trails in virginia and except in highly populated areas or by roads, he is not on lease. i will lease him when others approach as many people are uncomfortable or scared of larger dogs. also, except in a few areas of virginia (urban areas and certain federal lands) the law (no state law on the subject only local ordinances) does not require my dog to be leased (typical language excludes dogs while hunting, dogs while training to hunt and dogs under control). when i elect to lease my dog, when i make my dog sleep outside the shelter (always - even when alone), i do it as a matter of curtesy, not because of some legal obligation.
Diet Orange Soda
12-05-2010, 13:50
Has anyone had experience with Ausralian Sheppards on the trail. We raise them and I am considering training one to go hiking with me.
LoneRidgeRunner
12-06-2010, 11:58
wrong. some people are afraid of dogs no matter how frienly you think he is. a courteous owner would never stay in a shelter
Agreed 100% I had a Collie who has now been dead for 13 years that I took on some short day hikes with me but I would NEVER take a dog on a long hike...NO I'm NOT a dog hater....I love dogs and I loved my Collie more than any human woman I have ever known (in a different way of course) And LW is 100% right.....It is NOT correct to say that if you and your dog were at a shelter first and others came later and they don't like it they should leave. The trail shelters were constructed for PEOPLE ..NOT dogs ..period....Besides, A few times my Collie would become scared at VERY STEEP pitches and I would have to carry her down...LOL.. I always wondered why that was the case...after all..she had "4 foot drive", was low to the ground and I only had 2 feet and already a back pack to carry, then had to carry a 90 pound Collie down slopes so steep I had to dig n with my heels and lean back with this big heavy and hairy "baby" in my arms....Many dogs (my Collie included) are VERY well behaved and bother no one..BUT...the bottom line is that many people just don't want them around.....
I leave my dog at home. Please do not ask me to sleep with your dog. Mine might get jealous.:)
the question is if U are ready to hiked with your dog ? I haven't seen many happy dogs on a long distance hike... your dog has to be the leader and you shld know how to read just about everything that is going on with them. bring your compassion and conscience... thy are WAY more important than anything in your pack
if you are hiking with a dog they should be allowed to freaking sleep with you. They deserve that from their owner.. which means NO shelters. Don't sleep in a shelter and ask your dog to sleep out. When my dogs go with me or did she slept in my sleeping bag . She did the miles too and deserved the comfort .
Tiny Dancer
02-05-2011, 12:26
So glad I stumbled across this one, I am planning on taking my dog on the AT this spring. I completely agree that she shouldn't be in a shelter if it is being used by many people, but I don't mind asking if it is one or two other people. My thought is she is probably actually CLEANER thank most people. She cleans herself (yes like a cat) and is on medicine like frontline that kills ticks and other bugs where as I just attract the hell out of them. There are mice and other things I would prefer not to think about in those shelters too, a dog would only keep them at bay at best. And mice are covered with worse things than ticks.
As for the begging during cooking, it may sound cruel but my dog has no business being near my food or anyone else's, she has her own. I think it would only be considerate if the dog does not stay away to have it go on a night walk at that time.
I love the list of if your dog is or is not ready for the trail. The main point I would argue is what someone else argued already... If you don't want the dog in the shelter say "No". I understand you don't want to be the "Bad" person but you are on the same trail, doing the same thing, then you deserve the same rights. So if you don't say "no" that's your choice.
LordoftheWings
02-12-2011, 14:05
I'm new to the forum and the lifestyle of the hiker. This is my first comment btw. I plan on doing a 2011 Hike thru. I have read the entire posting and found much information and humor (-mostly at the expense of others' ignorance) about the subject. I am a self proclaimed dog lover. My friends and co-workers call me the dog whisperer (not warranted) I would love to take my dog. She is well trained and has an amazing demeanor. (chocolate lab/weimaraner mix)
I agree that irresponsible owners of poorly trained dogs give us all a bad rap. It's very unfortunate. I'm not certain my beloved baby-girl will be coming with me on the trail. She is ready in all the qualifiers that was in the original post. I'm just not sure the owner (taking on the AT hike-thru as his first real hiking experience) Is qualified to jeopardize the life and well being of his dog. To address the issue of the shelter. I've seen many shelters. They are not the health dept's #1 pick for clean dining or lodging.
I wouldn't use a shelter if she comes with me unless a dire situation warrants the use. The rules clearly state that I can. As for hurt feelings? I would do my best to ensure everyone has the best hiking experience possible. If someone is unreasonable and expects my dog and I to sleep in blizzard conditions because they're afraid of dogs. I'll bring along an extra box of kleenex's for you. I'm shocked that such individuals would be in the woods??? I will absolutely take into consideration the comfort of others, but I will speak up about my own. If I hurt your feelings along the trail, just ask for a hug. I like hugs.
@ Tiny Dancer...My weimaraner and I have hiked the AT now for 7 Years(I live on it) 3 times ALL THE WAY a dog can go(No GSMNP/Baxter) He has a decidedly better demeanor than half the people I come across and is DEFF cleaner than 80% of the people...NEVER sleep in a shelter... He walks behind me at ALL times, and last year out of 117 days, was never on a leash while we were on the trail... Around others while camping at night, I would put him on a gentle Leader if someone asked... No one ever did... If ur dog is well adjusted, just like anyone else, it won't be necessary... AND ur campin' buds will think ur hound is cool... Can't tell you how many people shared their food with him... NO, he wasn't begging... You would share ur food with someone else, why not him??? Managing ur dogs nutrition on the trail was the hardest for me to figure out... But you know what??? He likes the same things I do... As soon as I came to grips with that, piece of cake... I could tell you a million things more... @ lordofthewings... ur soooo gettin' a hug ;)
LordoftheWings
02-12-2011, 16:50
@ Toli-I so hope I see you. I love hugs. I know it's hard to convey one's sense of humor on the internet, I hope my mine doesn't get me in trouble or buried in a well. "It puts the lotion on it's skin or it gets the hose again"
merlindayana
02-14-2011, 07:17
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mweinstone
02-14-2011, 07:32
dogs belong in shelters anytime there invited and only until someone objects. they make any shelter better. dogs that beg dont belong on earth. dogs that bite must be put down. dogs must be on a leash at all times for the peace of mind of scardy cats. dogs must never be allowed to drink from the waters edge. dog poop must be found and burried with religious tennasity. not hydrating or feeding your dog properly or overwalking him is an insult to all who must watch the dog suffer and then feel compelled to get mad and feed and water your dog themselves. a not so uncommon exsperience. dogs whose packs are ill adjusted, loaded or fitted are a cruelty you subject everyone to feel bad about. the AT is dog friendly. the most common wrong a dog owner does is letting an unleashed dog run ahead to frighten a child or get sprayed by a skunk.unleashed dogs run back and forth compileing dozens of extra miles per day hurting themselves.
mweinstone
02-14-2011, 07:45
a good dog well trained and with its kind master cannot and will not ever under any circumstances be tempted to chase a skunk or charge a child. well behaved dogs are loyal and act in a manner reflecting their owners bent. even when the most well trained dog is allowed off its leash to run ahead, it could still be gotten by a bear. it could still startle someone. and it could loose you if you become lost and turned around or injured while traveling behind it. a dog running ahead is also a target of theft by lureing into a vehicle if it pops out on a roadhead alone and freindly and thirsty and hungry.
Bottom line--- leave the dog at home.
Derek81pci
04-07-2011, 05:50
I had one of the most miserable times on a hiking trip because my friend decided to bring his dog at the last minute, on a 2 week hiking trip. The thing chased animals like it had never seen one... often times making us leave the path to go find the thing in the woods. It barked and howled at night, and pi**ed on the tent more times than I can count. It's not the dogs fault, but it would have been awesome if I didn't have to help babysit something that shouldn't have been on the trail in the first place.
Also, the stink of a wet dog ( or even a dirty unbathed dog) in a 10x6 shelter is something people just shouldnt be subjected to. No one wants to be the jerk and ask someone to not let a dog in the shelter. I got myself a hammock so my tent wouldn't smell like pee again.
that sucks. bad dog owners should be shot.
Dogs are special creatures. Some are suited to hiking and some are not. Even those that are need a human that is looking out for them and other people that will come in contact with them. Dogs aren't the problem.
fyrflyfla
04-27-2011, 20:09
Been hiking on the AT every year since 1998 doing short stints & long ones. Have hiked around dogs many times. I love them & think about hiking with mine but Baltimore is correct on some issues. Prepare to keep them in your tent and leashed if needs be. Most people DO Not want a dog in the shelter with them for many of the reasons listed. That said, some hikers do like dogs around cause they seem to keep the bears away. Also, be prepared to go slower, watch your dogs' health, & not be alowed in many of the hostels, hotels, or towns (only because of difficulty of getting rides). Having a dog with you can change, enhance, or hamper your thru-hike so be sure you want them along.
NO dogs should be allowed on the trail----they **** on the trail, shake water on hikers in the shelters and attempt to bite people and are a general nuisance.... nurse without a purse
NO dogs should be allowed on the trail----they **** on the trail, shake water on hikers in the shelters and attempt to bite people and are a general nuisance.... nurse without a purse
you just described a great deal of human hikers..:-?
kayak karl
04-27-2011, 21:45
NO dogs should be allowed on the trail----they **** on the trail, shake water on hikers in the shelters and attempt to bite people and are a general nuisance.... nurse without a purse
what's your trail name and when will you be hiking :D
what's your trail name and when will you be hiking :D
Hope Kaia schools him... Make sure you have ur hound dumb it WAAAAY down tho... I'm just sayin' :D...
he fakes being lazy but the word hike, even if spelled out, gets him in a tilly.
he sleeps with his nose in your hiking boot
he has ramman breath when you come home
and the number one way to know if hes ready to go thruhiking is,....
stands by the door if you even post on whiteblaze.
OMG... I was ACTUALLY able to read AND understand a post from you... I'm either learning to understand Pig Latin or you are slippin' :-?...
Dogs bring much joy and laughter to myself, however, I 100% agree that I would leave my two mutts at home.
My dog loves to hike but isn't so good in the car.:o
It took me forever to train her to slobber all over Jack.:p
I'm not so sure Jack ever learned to appreciate our efforts. :D
BitBucket
05-09-2011, 22:29
Jack,
You need to add one more to your list...
"Are you willing and able to carry your dog out in the event that he becomes injured or unable to continue while hiking?
I'm OK with folks bringing their animals along, but ultimately they are responsible for the safety of their dog while hiking and should be prepared to carry the animal out if it gets hurt/injured and is unable to hike.
String Bean
06-06-2011, 16:04
My only request is that owners take a moment and take a stick and move your dog's poop off the trail.....a dog is a great companion if you've taken the time to train him well..... Who was it that said "there are no bad dogs just bad owners"?
4dogHiker
06-06-2011, 17:31
Well, my name says it all. We are section hikers and we always try to bring all four of our dogs. We never think of staying anywhere near a shelter, or other hikers. We clean up after our dogs, they stay on a leash when we or others eat, and they sit and stay when they are told. That being said, yes there are owners who will not do any of this. And if something were to happen, we would take responsibility. Our dogs have been to FL and to Chicago with us. They are well behaved in a hotel or in a tent.
One of my favorite things to hear people ask when we travel with our dogs is are they good? My response, "If they weren't good, they wouldn't be here."
This post is to merely let you all know there are some good dog owners.
I have put off posting my opinion and experiences on this subject for a long time now.
Last year (2010) I thru hiked with a partner that had a dog. I was pretty much against dogs on the trail unless they were very well behaved. Before I started doing my thru hike with my partner I knew the dog and it seemed well behaved and I did not think it would be a problem on the trail. Her dog was always well behaved in shelters after dark so we never had a problem in that respect.
The problems we faced with her dog, was that it was not well behaved in any other aspects. It would chase deer, bear, ducks, and just about any animal in the woods. I never saw any wildlife when her dog was around. The dog was not trained to listen to commands and did not know any commands other then SIT and it rarely ever listen to that command.
The dog would piss on everything to mark his territory. A few times I saw him pissing on someone’s backpack. The dog even pissed on the sides of beds in motels. We got kick out of one hostel when the dog pissed on some furniture. The dog would walk up to other hikers and take food out of their hands without it being offered to him.
I learned from experience that people say one thing in front of the dog owner and another thing when the dog owner is not around. Point and case, when I was with my partner and she had her dog at the shelter at the end of the day, she would ask if others minded if she put the dog in the shelter. Most everyone said they did not have a problem with it. Then there were days when my partner was not around and these same people would bitch about her having her dog in the shelter. This is because they did not want to offend my partner and make themselves look like the bad guy by telling her NO. This goes way back to Jacks post in post #13.
In short, when asking permission, it's inevitable that these folks KNOW they're requesting "permission" to do something that they KNOW might be found objectionable or questionable by other folks......yet they go ahead and ask "permission" anyway, knowing full well that most folks don't want to look like the bad guy and will therefore stay mum.
In short, asking permission of your fellow hikers should be pretty much a red flag to yourself.......if you're about to engage in activity or behavior that you suspect (or know) that someone is likely to object to, well spare everyone the trouble. Don't put people on the spot, and don't ask permission. Instead of asking folks to green light behavior that you suspect might be objectionable, it's much more considerate to simply forego that activity, period.
And this includes your dog. When it comes to nighttime, he belongs in your tent.
Now back to the original question. “How to tell when your dog is ready for a long hike?”. The only way you going to have any idea is to start taking your dog on weekend and overnight hikes with other people around to see how your dog is going to handle it. If it is not ready then you know where to start in the training process.
CrumbSnatcher
06-06-2011, 20:42
better to hike with a female dog, usually alot smarter and she won't lift a leg up. :-)
CrumbSnatcher
06-06-2011, 20:46
Last year (2010) I thru hiked with a partner that had a dog.
I learned from experience that people say one thing in front of the dog owner and another thing when the dog owner is not around. Point and case, when I was with my partner and she had her dog at the shelter at the end of the day, she would ask if others minded if she put the dog in the shelter. Most everyone said they did not have a problem with it. Then there were days when my partner was not around and these same people would bitch about her having her dog in the shelter. This is because they did not want to offend my partner and make themselves look like the bad guy by telling her NO.
Atroll, did you ever tell/inform your partner what people actually thought about her and her dog, so she could try a little harder to be a better dog owner?
Atroll, did you ever tell/inform your partner what people actually thought about her and her dog, so she could try a little harder to be a better dog owner?
Yes, I told her many times but she would not accept what I had to say. She would not believe me. Some people cannot see past the end of there nose. It is a sad thing to say but some people only see what they want to see.
CrumbSnatcher
06-06-2011, 21:29
well my dog wasn't perfect but she never pissed on anybodys stuff and she never took food out of anyones hand! thats pretty sad. she did except food from others like a piece of cheese or beef jerky, but not before looking back at me to make sure it was ok.
After her dog did it a couple of times we did put a stop to it. I hated having to babysit the dog all the time to make sure it was not doing something it was not suppose to be doing. If you have to do that to a dog then it should not be on the trail.
I hated having to babysit the dog all the time to make sure it was not doing something it was not suppose to be doing. If you have to do that to a dog then it should not be on the trail.
Agreed. A dog should earn his/her way onto the trail.
Sarcasm the elf
06-06-2011, 22:49
Agreed. A dog should earn his/her way onto the trail.
+100
That just about sums it up, I couldn't agree more.
Rocket Jones
06-07-2011, 07:39
On my last hike with two friends, they both talked about bringing their dogs. After hearing about the behavior of one of the dogs, I suggested thinking long and hard about bringing them along. One still brought his dog, and she was an absolute sweetheart. The other friend left his dog at home, and afterwards admitted that he was glad he did.
I would like to see the data that shows that 95% of dogs are not ready to hike the AT. Was this a scientific study done with proper controls?
When your dog keeps gong through all his kit, weighing his dog dishes, reading the nutritional information on his dog food, making spreadsheets, he is probably well overdue for a long hike.
I am a huge fan of dogs and have hiked and traveled with them (one at a time) extensively, but the truth of the matter is, your dog needs to be really well trained before you set off on a thru hike with her/him. And even then, it's better to take them out hiking for a few days at a time (and many times) first, to make sure the excitement of the woods isn't going to knock all that training out of them as soon as they smell their first critter. You don't want to be pulling quills out of your dog's muzzle with your too-small Swiss Army knife tweezers, or going into town looking for a dozen cans of tomato juice you can soak their fur in. You (their master) have to be their whole world and they need to not want to leave your side-at all.
Given the right training, some dogs are great hikers, but I have been on treks where dogs have been allowed to race through the woods on their own in the daytime, and run around to other people's campsites begging for food at night. Neither is a good idea. Yes, dogs originally come from the wild, but that was a few thousand years ago, and now they are essentially house pets, who need to be trained before visiting their ancient stomping grounds. Scientists tell us all our ancestors walked out of Africa at some point, but that doesn't mean any of us would be able to survive in the Serengeti if we were pushed out of a plane tomorrow, without gear or training. Dogs, like humans, are happiest and healthiest when they feel secure and protected, and trusting their masters to make their decisions is how they get that way.
Lexi1987
06-14-2011, 19:47
My dog is well-behaved on the trail. Right now my boyfriend and I are section hiking and he does great. Doesn't pee every two seconds, doesn't bark, never strays far from us, etc. Out of respect of others, we hook him up on the leash if we see hikers approaching. Not to mention, he offers a sense of security as he gets territorial at our campsites. Furthermore, he benefits physically (no matter how much we try to alter his diet, he gets a little chubby if not exercised regularly, lol). We intend on thru-hiking in a couple years when I'm done in the Army and he's finished with school... and we've accepted he can't go with us. We have to break frequently for him, we understand he won't be invited in shelters or hostels, he gets moody after a few days, and his "gear" adds extra weight to our packs. A dog serves as a great companion on the trail; there is just a lot to consider about both the trail and the dog before bringing your furry friend.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249718_680518892919_39806815_36204199_4991722_n.jp g
Jack Tarlin
06-14-2011, 20:14
LBJ:
Don't know about "scientific controls" but my observation that the vast majority of Trail dogs need to go home is based on over 15 years of personal observation and experience, something like 25,000 miles of hiking, and interaction with hundreds of dogs and dog owners.
Several months on the Trail this year, including time spent hiking; in trail towns; in trail businesses, motels, hostels, etc. has done nothing to make me change my mind, either. On the contrary, the 95% figure might have been generous.
Jack's article needs to be read with an open mind by everyone considering hiking with a dog as it contains much info/issues that MANY dogowners fail to realize or consider!
quintopia
06-20-2011, 23:32
I think this guide is totally fair, and, reading through it, and easily answered the "right" answer to every question. So now what do I do? Where can I find a good guide about exactly what I need to know about each part of the trail, and how to hike it with a dog? Something that would tell where dogs are allowed, and where they are not, or what to do, say, in the Great Smokies, where everyone has to stay in a shelter every night? Simply put: where do I find the tutorial "What you need to know about hiking the AT with a dog"?
Spirit Walker
06-21-2011, 00:24
The thrhiker guides will tell you which hostels don't allow dogs, or require them to be tied up outside. I believe they also give information about boarding your dog while you hike the Smokies. Dogs are not allowed on the AT in the Smokies or Baxter SP. There may be veterinarian information as well.
aussie21
07-03-2011, 16:44
My best friend Aussie, a blue austrailian shepard died on me at the age of 17 two years ago, he was a perfect turn key dog, never needed a leash ever no matter what jumped out. I've got a 6 year old blue queensland heeler named skillet and he is as well behaved as aussie was just not as sociable but thats nice most of the time. I would take skillet if it werent for the fact that if he leaves with me our other dog won't eat so im screwed. Our other dog has more heart and drive than any ive ever seen but shes not built for it and doesnt mind up to my standards. My opinion is hiking with dogs is great but have to not only always put your dog first but want to put your dog first. And I have and will never put a pack on a dog, the utility breeds out there are meant to pull not pack (huge difference). I also beleive that only some styles of dogs can handle a hike that long, look for hunting, herding type dogs. long legs and bodys, lots of muscle and enderance, deep chests provide bigger lung capacity for heavy breathing to cool off and to stay strong. Small dogs and heavy short leg stocky types have no business on long hikes. Remember dogs are not like people, they're stronger than people and will work to death for their owner without complaining so we as owners must always watch out for them and put their needs above our wants. My .02
aussie21
07-03-2011, 16:47
Man and his dog out exploring the wilderness together is great and is as much of an American tradition as apple pie.
Hazel Skies
07-14-2011, 14:03
I am planning a section hike (3-5 days) with my own shelter, A TENT! My dog and I have hiked before, I'm just wondering if anyone who actually has a dog can comment on the pro's and con's they have come across on the AT!
Thanks in advance,
Hazel Skies
Well, Jack, I think we finally agree on something. I'm not having much luck with hiker dogs this year. The first one in lifted his leg and peed on me, lol and no harm done, as his owner was singing the dog's praises. Two days ago, a NOBO arrived with a dog, who bit me and another hiker, and I found out later he also attacked the dog of the trail angel who brought them into town. I don't blame the dog but the owner had no respect for any of our requests to keep people safe and admitted he couldn't control the dog. I love dogs but don't necessarily think the trail is the place for them.
If I can add my two cents in...
I happen to believe that Jack is right, though he does seem like he has alot of underlying anger toward hikers with unruly dogs. I don't entirely blame him for that. This is why, before I take my dog on the AT(and belive me, I'm not dumb enough to go on a thru hike my first time with my dog. Also not rich enough to get months off work) I've been taking her on hikes every day, training her on how to act on the trail, and I have to say its going very well. She used to pull, wander, and bolt to chase animals. All of these problems are getting better, and I plan on confidently taking her on my first week on the AT.
But I need to say to you Jack, like others have said in so many words; Your list is very informative, but it is less of a guide for if a dog is ready and more of a guide if a dog owner is ready. Anyone who brings a dog with territory or biting issues, with issues of stealing and rooting through and peeing on others belongings simply is not a considerate person, not to other hikers, themselves or the dog. A happy, well disciplined dog will never do these things(unless extremely stressed or scared), they are training issues and they can be overcome.
I'd also like to add on to Jacks list, that your dogs breed DOES matter. Domesticated dogs have been altered so much from the dogs that originally travelled and hunted in the wild. Because of this, some dogs legs can be so short that it becomes a problem. Likewise some dogs have narrow airways and this can become hazardous on the trail. Many other problems like these can occur, so do some research on your dogs breed. Say for instance you have a Corgie or Toy Poodle, you probably shouldnt bring them along.
One last thing I must agree and disagree with; My dog uses a pack/harness. Like you sparing little expense on a proper pack or proper set of boots(if you're smart) you should spare little expense in buying your dogs pack and always make sure it fits properly.
My dog really loves her pack and I let her carry her food and water on dayhikes, but I would not let her carry all of her water on a Hike lasting more than two days. Unlike human packs where the weight is distributed through all of our bodies through gravity due to our upright walking, dogs packs center on the back in between the legs, after a long time with alot of weight, this could really kill your dogs back.
Thanks Jack, its sobering info and very necessary
-A2G
Numerous hostel or lodging providers have complained this year about this, if you bring your dog make sure you pay for its lodging if there's a fee, and don't try to sneak it in if they're not allowed.
FaceplantSweetpack
09-02-2011, 23:51
Good grief.... Everyone on here sounds so bitter! Dogs make shelters unclean? Seriously? With all the rodent waste in there I avoid shelters because they may make me or my dog sick! Sure, there are irresponsible dog owners out there, but there are also irresponsible hikers out there who smoke in the shelter without asking if I mind, or leave trash laying along the trail.. Should we just outlaw hikers too because 76% of them are litterbugs? I fully understand how annoying an untrained dog can be, and usually offer advice or simply let the dog know that they are annoying. Yes, you can tell a dog to back off. Of course if a wet smelly dog is running around a shelter peeing on gear, it should be kicked out, this goes without saying.Bottom line, there are stupid hikers with dogs, and stupid hikers without dogs. There's no need to generalize. Dogs can be wonderful companions as well as added security. I don't hit the trail without mine and am willing to make sacrifices to have her with me.
ed short
09-03-2011, 00:13
When putting a pac on a dog remember the front legs do most tof the wgt bearing. (65 or so %) while the rear legs do most tof the propelling, so pack moer wgt to the front for proper distribution. gnome
oldmikemike
09-03-2011, 03:03
My Lady was a Ridgeback/Lab cross. Since my wife and I were planning kids, Lady got above and beyond training about mouth and personal space. She and I hiked the Ice Age trail and many others. It's entirely about training and personality. Lady had 100's of hours of obedience, canine good citizen, agility, etc. training; as long as she acted happy about it, we went for it.
Lady worshipped children. The lab side was pretty gonzo about food, BUT, she would stare not grab or steal. We still tent camped even when there were shelters available. Never had bear trouble, the ridgeback rumble took care of that; on the flip side she was a shameless flirt and loved attention (pretty funny to watch a 90 lbs dog sucking up to a 10 lbs cat).
Any dog problem is really an owner problem, other than allergies. Modern medicine can keep them less buggy than 98% of the humans I've met, they already smell better.
That said, my current lab, Rosie will be staying home; she's too attached to the kids and starts crying as soon as they leave her sight.
I avoided shelters after they started to put them up. I snore, smoke, love dogs, and usually konk out anyway.
In an earlier post someone made a comment that you should be prepared to carry your dog out if there is a problem.
A few years back I was on a day hike on Mt Lafayette in the White Mountains and encountered a couple with a dog that just sat down and refused to move. It was a very large German Shepperd, 90+ lbs, and nothing the couple did could convince the dog to move. There wasn't anything wrong with the dog, he was just "done" for the day. It was real late in the day and the dog had already completed the climb to the summit and made it half way down and was not going to move no matter what anyone said or did.
The real problem was it was about one hour from sunset and it was going to take at least that long to get off the trail. There were a lot of people on the trail giving advice but in the end everyone really had to get off the mountain before it got dark. The way it ended up playing out was the husband hiked/ran down the mountain by himself leaving the wife with the dog. The rangers then hiked up the mountain, in the dark, to "rescue" the wife and dog. I didn't stick around for the ending but I suspect that by the time the rangers got to the woman and the dog he was probably ready to complete the trip on his own.
I didn't hear the conversation between the husband and the rangers before they decided to go up the trail in the dark but I know they were NOT happy about the situation and I suspect that if the wife hadn't stayed with the dog there would not have been a "rescue" that night.
CrumbSnatcher
09-05-2011, 00:41
In an earlier post someone made a comment that you should be prepared to carry your dog out if there is a problem.
A few years back I was on a day hike on Mt Lafayette in the White Mountains and encountered a couple with a dog that just sat down and refused to move. It was a very large German Shepperd, 90+ lbs, and nothing the couple did could convince the dog to move. There wasn't anything wrong with the dog, he was just "done" for the day. It was real late in the day and the dog had already completed the climb to the summit and made it half way down and was not going to move no matter what anyone said or did.
The real problem was it was about one hour from sunset and it was going to take at least that long to get off the trail. There were a lot of people on the trail giving advice but in the end everyone really had to get off the mountain before it got dark. The way it ended up playing out was the husband hiked/ran down the mountain by himself leaving the wife with the dog. The rangers then hiked up the mountain, in the dark, to "rescue" the wife and dog. I didn't stick around for the ending but I suspect that by the time the rangers got to the woman and the dog he was probably ready to complete the trip on his own.
I didn't hear the conversation between the husband and the rangers before they decided to go up the trail in the dark but I know they were NOT happy about the situation and I suspect that if the wife hadn't stayed with the dog there would not have been a "rescue" that night.great story, welcome to WB :-)
i have had a couple different vets tell me a dog might even fake an injury to not keep walkin'
Up here ak ed dogs have been known 2 just stop in a race when thy r tired mushrs just have 2 stop 2 cuz there is no way the dog team is movg until thy r restd unlike humans thy r very honest and when thy r done. Thy r done.I wish most fol wouldn't take their dogs 4 the dogs sake I have seen wayyyy 2 much creepy stuff
HolySmoke!
09-05-2011, 15:45
Actually dogs are historically pack animals... I am willing to do ALL those things; and forego those things... not because i have a dog.... but because i'll have my best ****ing friend with me wherever i go.. 95%(at least) that's just stupid.. i'd go with 75% are not ready... the trail has a way of working things out for the better... i noticed on the trail that a lot of people were anti-dog even though the dog in question never bothered anyone.. That's bull****... never judge a dog or a person until their actions have spoken... Shelters suck, except in rainy weather anyway.... and even then i noticed it's more comfortable under them than in them... Who wants to sleep along side a bunch of stinky, snoring, smoking hikers.. No one ever; not once, asked if it was ok to smoke cigarettes in a shelter.. Bottom line is ... get your dog ready as you can... have control over them... don't let them bother others, or **** on the trail.. Heed the advice of these Grey beards... but remember most of them are fat, over-opinionated, drunk, and probably haven't hiked the trail in over 10 years... bottom line is.. take steps so that you and your dog are ready... Never-mind the Trolls...
4eyedbuzzard
09-05-2011, 17:06
remember most of them are fat, over-opinionated, drunk...
Your point?
Ken_Elwood
10-10-2011, 00:10
@HolySmoke!, You bring a great equalizer to the Conversation, great job! Although viscous, it sent the message.
If I may say, being a HUGE dog-lover. I (and many, Many others.) almost always have my dog with me, regardless of what I or my dog are up too. We're attached to each other, and I don't want to be segregated by my fellow hikers, however I do want to be respected, And with the cost of that Respect is Knowing yourself as a dog-owner and knowing your Canine Companion. Are Dogs suppose to work this hard? YESSSSSS! with the exception of your smaller canids, it wasn't until 200 years ago that we started to keep them as nothing more than household companions. Take as food for thought to the Other 14,800 years that we've been utilizing Dogs: Rottweilers were bred specifically to herd large amounts of cattle over extreme distances, German shepherds and Border collies were (and Still are.) renown for their seemingly endless energy and exuberance, and Don't forget that Merriwether Lewis, The original American discovery trail thru-hiker (don't correct me on that, I'll just deny it.) had a Newfoundland named Seaman, who accompanied Him and William Clark All the through the Expedition AND back. yes dogs have the ability to be great hikers just like people.
But should they all be? given the story of the Shepherd that just decided that he had enough hiking that day as evidence, of course not all dogs are built for it. they're each individually unique just like the rest of us. So Know your dog and most Importantly Know Yourself as a Dog-owner, and have your canine companion thoroughly trained to be a polite and courteous hiker.
We owe it to each other to have the best time possible out in nature's indescribable glory. and If anyone here needs any tips on how to train your dog to be a polite hiker than I am Never Too busy to help out a fellow Hiker. I am a dog training instructor and obvious lover with quite a bit of experience under his belt. :)
Now if I may speak on behalf oh those who's rather not hike with a dog. It really sucks when you're feeling that magical moment where you could swear nature herself is trying to speak with you and then in an instant it's gone, and you are then overwhelmed by a hairy, smelly, slobbery beast. I get it, I've been there, it really kills the experience. we give up so much (job, wife, life, etc.) just be one with ourselves and nature so is a little respect so much to ask for? we don't don't want to be the bad guy because we are in a matter of speaking a community, well I care about my community and if you don't want my shepherd dog harshing your experience that is just fine by me and I think All the dog hikers out there feel the same way. We know want we signed for when getting a dog.
Again we OWE it to each other to respect one another. the greatest experiences with human benevolence are out there on the trail so lets keep the love going how about it?
Live_for_hiking
10-11-2011, 22:58
We owe it to each other to have the best time possible out in nature's indescribable glory. and If anyone here needs any tips on how to train your dog to be a polite hiker than I am Never Too busy to help out a fellow Hiker. I am a dog training instructor and obvious lover with quite a bit of experience under his belt. :)
I'll admit that I am a huge dog lover. When backpacking was a more routine part of my weekly life, my most stead-fast hiking buddy was my Britany. She absolutely LOVED to hike ... you would swear that every foot of trail she smelled or explored was her territory. In her mind she was Queen of everything. The bad side was she didn't always greet people well. It was different for everybody. That lead me to only taking her on remote trips where there were few people. She always stayed on the leash and had to be properly introduced to anybody that showed interest. I would always keep myself between her and other hikers unless they wanted to introduce themselves. Because she was high-strung, I did not share camp sites when I took my lil' buddy with me.
I was thinking about getting another high-endurance breed for a future thru-hike. I changed my mind to "no" a couple weeks ago. Many of the reasons why have been eloquently outlined by some of the posters here. However, I did think heavily on the subject and I decided a couple of things:
1. AKC has a 'Canine Good Citizen' test. I would only allow a trail dog to hike if they passed that test and I kept up with the training. I quoted Ken because it made me think about my thoughts on training and why I chose not to bring a dog.
2. I would not stay in Shelters if the dog was present. It may make finding a cushy bed and a hot shower more challenging.
I'm still not adverse to pooches on the trail. I simply believe that when I hike the AT, it will be a time of self-transition. How can you meet people, explore the green tunnel, and remain on guard to ensure your companion is well-behaved all the time? So, I decided no because I felt it would diminish the social and self-searching aspects of that journey.
HolySmoke!
10-18-2011, 18:26
i couldn't agree more... it's one sided...
JeremiahTramp
12-07-2011, 12:15
i have a damn good dog and he's still young even. i've hitch hiked many times with him. got him in texas flea market for dirt change. Was going to put on the streets which are kinda crappy there. I think im hittin the ATfor alonger for either North come spring or head south for next winter. i'm positive my dog is coming, he's my brother and my best friend. i totally respect peoples wishes and everything, i wouldn't ask someone if they care if my dog comes in the shelter because if there is someone there than i ain't going in unless it's real rough outside. but if i arrive at one alone, my dogs getting the bunk with me. and the person who said about the cigarette smokers asking permission and you saying nay, I don't smoke a cigarette too often, my buddies do, it sucks in a car or closed up room but outside? tell the person to be down wind of ya. i'm pretty laid back to things of that nature, but saying no that someone can't smoke a round doesn't make you a badperson either.
JeremiahTramp
12-07-2011, 12:16
Ken Elwood, dogs are a part of nature brother, not a ****zu or any of them kinds of animals but a dog with a pack and gear is old time stuff. when your dog gets on the scent of a rabbit or stops to pee on a stick or rock that stands out that generations of wolf blood or atleast the thinking of an untamed beast even for just a second, dogs can ruin a moment sometimes, but they blend in well with it too and my dog has kept my but safe a few times already or atleast warned me about someone cuz i rarely sleep in houses, oh and wellllllll said HolySmoke! well said
bamboo bob
12-07-2011, 12:44
I agree with everything Jack said back on post 14 but also: Is the dog really having fun? Do they drop to the ground and sleep any time you stop. Your dog loves you and will do what ever you ask including walking until he's injured.
I have had a wet dog run across everyone sleeping bag and a dog ate my bagel. Two problems in over 10,000 miles doesn't seem like much but doesn't count all the barking dogs that were just plain annoying. The young women with "cute" puppies they adopted on the trail were real prizes. I couldn't believe the girl who got a puppy in Hot Springs! I try to just hike away from trail problems but I do wish that fewer people brought dogs. I have had dogs all my life. Luckily most men are too lazy to be bothered having dogs on the trail. The women who do generally tent with them and they get a little companionship and security. Dogs, smokers, loud talkers, stoners, the guy with a radio (do they still make radios?) God, it's a wonder any of us go out there any more.
JeremiahTramp
12-07-2011, 13:17
stay off the trail or away from shelters then bud, whats wrong with smokers, loud talkers or stoners, prejudice, ive been on this site an hour and why is everyone whining, the AT is considered an URBAN TRAIL. DEAL.
RogueWriter
12-07-2011, 19:30
I've seriously considered taking my border collie on my thru-hike, but I'm afraid he's too old. He's ten and getting arthritic, so he's gonna stay home. No point in pushing the dog and causing him pain, just because I'm gonna miss him. He's my best pal and I don't want to hurt him.
bamboo bob
12-07-2011, 20:32
stay off the trail or away from shelters then bud, whats wrong with smokers, loud talkers or stoners, prejudice, ive been on this site an hour and why is everyone whining, the AT is considered an URBAN TRAIL. DEAL. What's wrong with smokers, stoners, and loud talkers and radio users is that they are selfish, self centered and inconsiderate. If they want to do that THEY should get out of the shelters not the rest of the happy campers. And in fact unless its actually pouring out I do stay out of the shelters to get a way from them and apparently you Jeremiah.
xdfhdfjn
01-01-2012, 23:55
I'm planning a thru hike this spring starting in GA. Coming from MD I have to somehow get myself, gear, and dog to GA without leaving my Jeep in GA. What have some of you done? Can I take my dog on a greyhound bus? Also, what did you use to get home? Are there any cities or parks where dogs are prohibited to hike with me? Any info would be appreciated.
I've seriously considered taking my border collie on my thru-hike, but I'm afraid he's too old. He's ten and getting arthritic, so he's gonna stay home. No point in pushing the dog and causing him pain, just because I'm gonna miss him. He's my best pal and I don't want to hurt him. that is the best thing I have read on this site in awhile I wish more people were as unselfish
This has been an interesting read.
I think that most hikers like dogs or at least don't hate them. But when you're thru-hiking you look at things a little differently. If a dog (or for that matter a dunk hiker, seen that!) pees on you pack that's a problem. If a dog gets into your gear and chews up your food bag, and you're two days from the next town, that's a problem. If a dog bites you when your hours away from medical attention (this almost happened to me in MA) that's a problem. It's tough enough out there without others creating more problems for you.
Along the same lines I like kids, I'm a Scoutmaster and I volunteer to work with kids all the time. I always enjoyed meeting kids on the trail. But when my tent is set up at the end of the day and some kids camping near the shelter are running around it, well I start to worry. If one kid trips over my tent and tears it, well that's a problem. And all these "problems" can be very difficult to deal with when you're hiking and you don't have easy access to a grocery store, or a doctor, or an outfitter. For those of you planning to bring a dog on a thru-hike this year I hope this gives you something to thin about.
I saw several dogs thru-hiking this year early on, I saw none in ME. A vast majority of the dogs were well behaved. I did see owners wanting exceptions to the rules for their dogs. I know of one case where the owner had his dog registered as a service dog just so he could bring him into the Smokys. The owner, by his own admission was not disabled and the service dog registration was bogus.
stonedflea
01-03-2012, 14:51
I saw several dogs thru-hiking this year early on, I saw none in ME.
when did you get to maine, though? people with dogs have to hike slower, so you probably out-hiked those with dogs. including my own, i personally saw 6 dogs from the south in maine around mid-august.
I summited on 9/7.
In looking through the ATC 2011 Harpers Ferry Thru-hiker pictures (359 total including section and thru-hikers) at http://www.flickr.com/photos/atconservancy/sets/72157625887686293/ I see 9 pictures showing 11 thru-hikerss with 12 dogs total. Some pictures show two hikers with one dog, and one, "Girl w/4 dogs" obviously had 4 dogs.
Comparing this list to the folks who registered for the 2,000 Miler Award in 2011 I can find only two names from the HF pictures, "Girl w/4 dogs" and "Duck".
Of course we don't know if the dogs finished since they are not listed in the record.
It's also possible that not all hikers with dogs had their pictures taken in HF or applied for the 2,000 Miler Award.
It's also possible that the dogs "stonedflea" describes as being "from the south" were not thru-hikers.
And as we know getting to Abol Bridge is finishing for a dog since they are not allowed in Baxter S.P.
It would be interesting to find out if "Duck" and "Girl w/4 dogs" finished with their dogs and if there are any others out there we don't know about for 2011. We might be able to determine if hiking with a dog increases or decreases your chances of finishing a thru-hike.
stonedflea
01-03-2012, 17:04
I summited on 9/7.
In looking through the ATC 2011 Harpers Ferry Thru-hiker pictures (359 total including section and thru-hikers) at http://www.flickr.com/photos/atconservancy/sets/72157625887686293/ I see 9 pictures showing 11 thru-hikerss with 12 dogs total. Some pictures show two hikers with one dog, and one, "Girl w/4 dogs" obviously had 4 dogs.
Comparing this list to the folks who registered for the 2,000 Miler Award in 2011 I can find only two names from the HF pictures, "Girl w/4 dogs" and "Duck".
Of course we don't know if the dogs finished since they are not listed in the record.
It's also possible that not all hikers with dogs had their pictures taken in HF or applied for the 2,000 Miler Award.
It's also possible that the dogs "stonedflea" describes as being "from the south" were not thru-hikers.
And as we know getting to Abol Bridge is finishing for a dog since they are not allowed in Baxter S.P.
It would be interesting to find out if "Duck" and "Girl w/4 dogs" finished with their dogs and if there are any others out there we don't know about for 2011. We might be able to determine if hiking with a dog increases or decreases your chances of finishing a thru-hike.
i did not see girl w/4 dogs in maine. she summited before august 8th. i heard from another hiker that her dad supported her hike and would drop the dogs off at convenient sections of the trail.
of course having a dog decreases your chances of completing a thru, just as beginning a hike with a partner you shared gear with would decrease your chances of finishing.
let me point out, though, that these 300+ pictures are only of hikers that reached the ATC by june. i was #700something and got there i believe july 12th?
i have their names written in my AT guide, but the only thru hikers whose names i can remember off the top of my head that i met with dogs were spud with his dog lucy and longtrail with her dog padma. the dogs i mention belonged to thru-hikers, not section hikers.
thanks for the link, btw. :)
Didn't realize I was looking at only a 50% sampling (359 out of about 700).
Girl w/4 dogs finished but the dogs didn't.
So based on my sample it would be fair to say less than 10% of hikers finish with their dogs?
What's the average for thru completions? I think its about 20%.
Maybe the ATC will finish posting the HF pictures and I can do a better analysis.
Jack Tarlin
01-04-2012, 14:53
First post in awhile but wanted to pass this along for the folks hiking next year.
Kincora Hostel in Dennis Cove, TN, near Hampton, will, with regrets, be a dog free establishment next year, for any number of reasons. (There are excellent campsites very near to the Trail, tho, and owner Bob Peoples says that hikers are still welcome to enjoy his free town/supermarket shuttle whether they're staying overnight at his place or not, but unfortunately, dogs will not be permitted on the actual property in the future. Too many problems, too many bad owners).
CrumbSnatcher
01-04-2012, 20:42
First post in awhile but wanted to pass this along for the folks hiking next year.
Kincora Hostel in Dennis Cove, TN, near Hampton, will, with regrets, be a dog free establishment next year, for any number of reasons. (There are excellent campsites very near to the Trail, tho, and owner Bob Peoples says that hikers are still welcome to enjoy his free town/supermarket shuttle whether they're staying overnight at his place or not, but unfortunately, dogs will not be permitted on the actual property in the future. Too many problems, too many bad owners).thats too bad, been awhile since i've been there, but bob used to ask the hikers not to bother the big ole' dog stretched out sleeping on the sofa. bob loved my big ole' bear dog. year after year hikers wear out the welcome, maybe not on purpose but it happens. not just the dog hikers either. happy new year JACK tell bob hi for me
CrumbSnatcher
01-04-2012, 20:45
owning a hostel sounds like fun, but after so many years of it, i'm sure its a grind for most of them. wonder what the avg. life span of a hostel is?
mountain squid
01-05-2012, 18:21
First post in awhile but wanted to pass this along for the folks hiking next year.
Kincora Hostel in Dennis Cove, TN, near Hampton, will, with regrets, be a dog free establishment next year, for any number of reasons. (There are excellent campsites very near to the Trail, tho, and owner Bob Peoples says that hikers are still welcome to enjoy his free town/supermarket shuttle whether they're staying overnight at his place or not, but unfortunately, dogs will not be permitted on the actual property in the future. Too many problems, too many bad owners).No Dogs Allowed at Kincora. Bob has also finally decided to increase his Suggested Donation a whopping 20% . . . instead of a $4 donation, it will be a $5 donation (or is that a 25% increase?!?). All of this updated info should be reflected in the 2012 Thru-Hikers Companion.
See you on the trail,
mt squid
Of course feel free to leave more if you can. Unfortunately i heard stories of hikers not donating and even taking money. Not cool!
I stayed in the treehouse, very nice. And Bob was great!
give it some sweat and bone,what it like
rastraikis
01-07-2012, 03:21
I have been dealing with health inspectors for 20 years. They would close down every one I've seen. Maybe not the Hilton? That shelter is really nice!
Seems Odd that the ATC would take such a position.
You would think it against heath regs. In addition to sleeping in shelters, people cook in there!
But that's the ATC's position. Got to respect it (or at least recognize it).
I don't believe anything in a shelter meets health regs.
m_factor
01-07-2012, 15:49
First of all, I agree with what Baltimore Jack wrote. Most dogs do not belong on the trail and most of the problems with dogs on the trail can be linked directly to their owners.
One thing I didn't see discussed much in this thread is doggy first aid. Do you know what to do if your dog is injured? What if it's too serious to fix on the trail? Can you carry your dog out? Can you also carry your dog's pack? Will SAR come to the aid of a dog? Will you keep hiking if your dog can't? Do you have someone who will be willing to care for your injured pet if you want to keep hiking? Are you willing to get off the trail if your dog can't hike any longer.
As for dog packs, most dogs on long distance hikes should carry smaller packs than manufacturers and retailers would indicate. Also, most dogs don't understand the varying weight of doggy packs. Consider allowing the dog to carry a steady load each day while you carry their food and water.
For what its worth, I have allergies and do not want to be subjected to dogs unwanted attention. Usually, if there are people on the trail that want to pet a dog, they will ask to do so. I shouldn't have to say anything to the owner to keep the dog away.
For what it's worth, I have had hiking partners who had their dogs with them on the trail. In the cases where I spent the most time hiking with dogs, those dogs shouldn't have been on the trail. One stole food from other hikers, didn't keep his distance from those that didn't want him around and most sadly, hated getting going in the morning or after breaks. Another was a capable dog but the owner felt a bit too entitled and was one who asked for exceptions for the well-behaved dog. I've seen plenty of other dogs on the trail as well and those that belonged were rare indeed.
Herding dogs have their own set of issues. Consider a dog that tries to keep its human pack together. Not only is it annoying to a line of hikers on the trail, but it puts a lot more stress on the dog as it runs back and forth between the head of a line and the back - or strains at its leash.
I have a lot more written up about hiking with dogs on my web site at:
http://friends.backcountry.net/m_factor/dogs.html
(http://friends.backcountry.net/m_factor/dogs.html)Much of it reiterates what has already been said but gives yet another perspective.
Also, the ATC link posted earlier in the thread has changed. It is now at:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/hiking-with-dogs
CrumbSnatcher
01-07-2012, 16:32
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CrumbSnatcher
01-07-2012, 16:41
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Short Break
01-14-2012, 07:42
Hello all, I am new to the site. I was looking for information on thru hiking and the wealth I found here is all most to much to read it all, but I am trying. My question is, does anyone know of any pitbulls that have made the whole a.t.? I am considering a thru hike and bring my 3 year old pup. I know you guys hear pitbull but he is not your ordinary pitbull. Super sweet and very well behaved. I work for myself and might be looking at some time off and figured I might give it a shot. Any other things I should prepare for more than the obvious (weather, fleas/ticks, illness, and pad wear). Also, what kind of backpack should I get him? I have no experience in buying a backpack for dogs, so I am looking for previous experience to guide my choice. Thanks!
Actually normal pit bulls are super sweet and very well behaved.
Miami Joe
01-15-2012, 18:25
Didn't realize I was looking at only a 50% sampling (359 out of about 700).
Girl w/4 dogs finished but the dogs didn't.
So based on my sample it would be fair to say less than 10% of hikers finish with their dogs?
What's the average for thru completions? I think its about 20%.
Maybe the ATC will finish posting the HF pictures and I can do a better analysis.
So, based on your sample, "Girl w/ 4 dogs" is a total B.A.! Seriously, a thru with four dogs? Now that's an astonishing feet of will power!
Sarcasm the elf
01-15-2012, 18:35
So, based on your sample, "Girl w/ 4 dogs" is a total B.A.! Seriously, a thru with four dogs? Now that's an astonishing feet of will power!
I bumped into her in NJ and she was only walking one of the dogs. She said that she was doing a supported hike with her support person taking care of the other dogs and swapping out which one she was hiking with so that they all got to hike some of the time. In a way I liked her idea a lot because it allowed all of the dogs sufficient time to rest up. The dog she had with her looked much happier and in better shape than most of the other long distance hiking dog's that I've encountered.
I never thought to ask her if she ever took all four dogs on the trail at the same time, that would have been something I would like to have seen.
MissMagnolia
01-15-2012, 18:43
Hello all, I am new to the site. I was looking for information on thru hiking and the wealth I found here is all most to much to read it all, but I am trying. My question is, does anyone know of any pitbulls that have made the whole a.t.? I am considering a thru hike and bring my 3 year old pup. I know you guys hear pitbull but he is not your ordinary pitbull. Super sweet and very well behaved. I work for myself and might be looking at some time off and figured I might give it a shot. Any other things I should prepare for more than the obvious (weather, fleas/ticks, illness, and pad wear). Also, what kind of backpack should I get him? I have no experience in buying a backpack for dogs, so I am looking for previous experience to guide my choice. Thanks!
I LOVE bully breeds and am all about education against stereotypes. That said, you may want to consider a few things. I don't agree with breed bans, but they exist, and if you take a bully breed through one of those towns, you could end up having your dog taken and euthanized. I don't know if breed bans apply anywhere along the AT, but it's quite possible. Another thing is to realize that many other hikers and people in general do believe the anti-pitbull propaganda and may react poorly to your dog, whether deserved or not. If your dog is not trained well, it will perpetuate the bad image of bully breeds, and if your dog gets in a fight, your dog will almost definitely get blamed, no matter who's fault it is (and it would probably be your fault, or the other dog owner's fault for allowing it to get to that point). What if a stray dog approaches? Is your dog well-trained enough to obey you? Finally, they have such thin coats and low body fat that I wonder if the breed would do well on such a long endurance feat and in the cold. You'd really have to prepare well and carry extra weight to keep your dog warm. I'd recommend a full vet exam including bloodwork and checking of the joints for any signs of dysplasia, arthritis or any other problems you may not know about yet before you make your decision.
But....if your dog is healthy, amazingly well trained, good with all people, animals and kids and you can keep it warm and healthy, go for it! Every well trained bully dog that makes new friends helps weaken the unfair stereotype that gets them murdered every day. I personally will NOT be bringing my dog (Beagle/Shepherd mix) because she has terrible hips and doesn't obey well (not well trained) and she'd probably kill me on her leash with all the running ahead then sudden stops to sniff right in front of my feet.
Miami Joe
01-15-2012, 22:13
I LOVE bully breeds and am all about education against stereotypes. That said, you may want to consider a few things. I don't agree with breed bans, but they exist, and if you take a bully breed through one of those towns, you could end up having your dog taken and euthanized. I don't know if breed bans apply anywhere along the AT, but it's quite possible. Another thing is to realize that many other hikers and people in general do believe the anti-pitbull propaganda and may react poorly to your dog, whether deserved or not. If your dog is not trained well, it will perpetuate the bad image of bully breeds, and if your dog gets in a fight, your dog will almost definitely get blamed, no matter who's fault it is (and it would probably be your fault, or the other dog owner's fault for allowing it to get to that point). What if a stray dog approaches? Is your dog well-trained enough to obey you? Finally, they have such thin coats and low body fat that I wonder if the breed would do well on such a long endurance feat and in the cold. You'd really have to prepare well and carry extra weight to keep your dog warm. I'd recommend a full vet exam including bloodwork and checking of the joints for any signs of dysplasia, arthritis or any other problems you may not know about yet before you make your decision.
But....if your dog is healthy, amazingly well trained, good with all people, animals and kids and you can keep it warm and healthy, go for it! Every well trained bully dog that makes new friends helps weaken the unfair stereotype that gets them murdered every day. I personally will NOT be bringing my dog (Beagle/Shepherd mix) because she has terrible hips and doesn't obey well (not well trained) and she'd probably kill me on her leash with all the running ahead then sudden stops to sniff right in front of my feet.
I respect your opinion here and I myself love bully breeds but I'd suggest against taking a pit on the AT. Most people are scared of these dogs and that fear could ruin a long-distance hike for you and your pup.
Sarcasm the elf
01-15-2012, 23:20
I respect your opinion here and I myself love bully breeds but I'd suggest against taking a pit on the AT. Most people are scared of these dogs and that fear could ruin a long-distance hike for you and your pup.I respectfully disagree, as the owner you are responsible for your dogs behavior and well being. You are not responsible for other peoples irrational fears.