View Full Version : Bear bagging methods on the AT
So my fiance and I will be doing the GA section of the AT at the beginning of next month and I am contemplating which method of bear bagging will be best for me.
The 3 choices that I am looking at is:
1. Common 2 Tree Hanging Method
2. Counterbalance Method
3. PCT Method
So maybe there are more ways than this but this is the 3 that I am looking at.
I have read about the Common Method of using 2 trees and stringing the rope between 2 branches way up and hanging the food in the middle in lots of books. This seems to be a little difficult but effecticve way.
Then I came across the Counterbalance Method. It seems like a good way also but my luck I would get them either to high to get back down or too low to matter! However with this one I was wondering if I could use mine or my fiances pack to use as the counterbalance since we are planning on hanging both of our packs as well as our foodbag and other smellables.
I read about the PCT Method and I like it. Seems simple and effective, but I have to wonder about the extra rope hanging down right beneath the bag. Could a bear not just give it a good yank and get the goods? Or rodents just crawl right up the rope? I have an Outsak that I will be storing everything in to hang so Im not real worried about the rodents, but the bears....... I was wondering about stringing the extra rope to a tree or somewhere that would reach, or something....
So, whats everyones preference, and why? What works and what doesnt? Is there any thing that we could add to one of these methods to make one better? I have read that the bears are a little smarter around known areas such as the shelters so I figure that they are all a little smarter since the shelters are so close. So is one method a better choice over the others on the AT?
Also, does the color of the rope make a difference? Should I use a darker color so that it doesnt stand out in the dark to the critters that may be searching for them? Or does it matter?
Thanks!
I use all three depending on the situation. But I prefer the PCT.
We call the "common method" the confounder. I use it often in the Canadian bush as the trees up there are often too puny to hang from one. It does require more rope though.
I don't believe rope color makes much difference. I suspect a critter will smell the rope before seeing it.
I just throw my bag over a carefully selected limb, let it hang about 3-4 feet down, and tie it off another tree. Never had a problem doing this.
Have had mice or flying squirrels get in my stuff when using bear cables.
I just throw my bag over a carefully selected limb, let it hang about 3-4 feet down, and tie it off another tree. Never had a problem doing this.
Have had mice or flying squirrels get in my stuff when using bear cables.
That sounds like a good idea too!
And we are using an Outsak to hang our stuff in, and all our smellables will be in Opsaks inside that so hopefully the smell wont attract anything (according to the Opsaks, they are odor-proof), except maybe the curious what-not that happens along the way......
Blissful
08-17-2009, 19:36
I just throw my bag over a carefully selected limb, let it hang about 3-4 feet down, and tie it off another tree. Never had a problem doing this.
Yup that's about it...
I just throw my bag over a carefully selected limb, let it hang about 3-4 feet down, and tie it off another tree. Never had a problem doing this.
I used the same method as Egads when I hiked in Georgia this summer. No problems.
I might just be slow or something, but I tried the PCT method a number of times, and the rope always got bound up on the tree limb. It seemed like feeding the free end of the rope through the carabiner caused this. Then again, I might just be slow or something...
I use the PCT method. I had an idea I am going to try next time of daisy chaining the remaining hanging rope to get it off the ground and up higher. Or you could daisy chain it and lift it onto a limb with a branch to get in the morning.
Homer&Marje
08-17-2009, 20:07
Classic east coast hanging. Never defer from it unless their is cables, a bear box....or no bears (elevation depending).
15' off the ground, over a branch at least 3-4' out from the tree.
This one was good 25' to the branch and about 8' from the tree.
I went out and tried the PCT Method today in a pine tree in my back yard. The first limb I threw it over was between 15-20 feet (probably closer to 20) and when I got done the bag wasnt really that high up. I could touch it by jumping. So I tried another branch which was probably about 25 feet and it was supended high enough for my liking.
It was hard for me to tie the knot around a stick to catch on the carabiner clamp. Reaching up high enough over your head and pulling tight on the rope makes it hard to tie (for me anyway). Also, I noticed that it was rather hard to pull the food sack up and I feel like it had something to do with being rn through the clamp. It was like the rope was twisting around itself.
Anyway, I am going to practice it somemore and the other methods to. So, Ill just see I guess.
I do like the idea of throwing a rope over a limb, hauling the bag up and tying the rope off to another tree. That sounds so simple.
I guess it will also depend on where I am and what kind of limbs I have to work with.
Thanks for all the input so far!
Rocket Jones
08-17-2009, 20:45
Rookie question: Don't the bears or other critters learn that chewing or yanking the rope might bring down the bag?
Homer&Marje
08-17-2009, 21:03
If it happens, it's by chance more than likely.
Although through time they possess the ability to pass knowledge of our methods on to future generations.
Might be some more rope pullers father along in the gene pool:rolleyes:
Rookie question: Don't the bears or other critters learn that chewing or yanking the rope might bring down the bag?
Absolutely. That's why the PCT method is probably the best, though the hardest to master. The animal would have to climb the tree, out the branch to the line, and chew it through.
I hang my food over my pillow= never had a problem.:eek:
I hang my food over my pillow= never had a problem.:eek:
I was thinking of just stuffing it in the bottom of my sleeping bag actually!!;)
ShoelessWanderer
08-17-2009, 21:57
I used the same method as Egads when I hiked in Georgia this summer. No problems.
The great tried and true method that's been working for me for years.
flemdawg1
08-17-2009, 22:59
I just throw my bag over a carefully selected limb, let it hang about 3-4 feet down, and tie it off another tree. Never had a problem doing this.
Have had mice or flying squirrels get in my stuff when using bear cables.
Yep. Just spent last weekend dodging the bears in SNP. (saw 7) And using this method worked fine. Toss the rope/string, pull it up, tie it off.
take-a-knee
08-18-2009, 13:21
I went out and tried the PCT Method today in a pine tree in my back yard. The first limb I threw it over was between 15-20 feet (probably closer to 20) and when I got done the bag wasnt really that high up. I could touch it by jumping. So I tried another branch which was probably about 25 feet and it was supended high enough for my liking.
It was hard for me to tie the knot around a stick to catch on the carabiner clamp. Reaching up high enough over your head and pulling tight on the rope makes it hard to tie (for me anyway). Also, I noticed that it was rather hard to pull the food sack up and I feel like it had something to do with being rn through the clamp. It was like the rope was twisting around itself.
Anyway, I am going to practice it somemore and the other methods to. So, Ill just see I guess.
I do like the idea of throwing a rope over a limb, hauling the bag up and tying the rope off to another tree. That sounds so simple.
I guess it will also depend on where I am and what kind of limbs I have to work with.
Thanks for all the input so far!
What line are you using? Any thing other than braided 725# spectra is most likely a poor substitute. Gossamer Gear carries this, Anti-Gravity Gear carries a similar line.
garlic08
08-18-2009, 14:42
Absolutely. That's why the PCT method is probably the best, though the hardest to master. The animal would have to climb the tree, out the branch to the line, and chew it through.
I agree, and I've never tried the PCT method. I avoid the high-use areas (like AT shelters) where bears have been fed by careless hikers. I camp in remote areas and hang my food using the "quick and simple" rope over a tree limb method.
The cables at AT shelters are probably there mostly because it's amazing how inept a hiker can be at hanging food. I've seen a line tossed through a tree crotch 8' up and the bag hoisted right against the tree trunk or nicely nestled in the crotch. Might as well lay it out on the table. You might actually have to walk into the woods to find a good tree, and that's apparently beyond the ability of many. I think it's Lone Wolf who's said how entertaining it is to watch people hang food, too. It does take practice to get good at it. Just look up at all the abandoned line stuck in the trees around the busier AT shelters. Some of them have Nalgene bottles, rocks in socks, and multitools hanging from them, too.
The only area I've hiked where critters have managed to figure out the simple rope over a tree limb method (done correctly) is in the National Parks in the high Sierra--Yosemite, King's Canyon, Sequoia. That's why the NPS requires either bear cannisters or camping in developed sites with bear boxes installed. The bears have gotten extremely clever at bringing down bags. There was even a case of a bear dipping into an open bear cannister a few feet behind a hiker eating her lunch.
Nearly Normal
08-18-2009, 16:37
Will you use the shelters/areas or camp away from them?
flemdawg1
08-18-2009, 18:39
Finding the right tree is usually the toughest part. In a forest, the mature trees generally have few/no branches that are under 30-40 feet. And the younger trees dont usually have strong enough limbs at the desired height. Also once you find a good limb, getting the line over can be a challenge due to other branches obstructing the throwing path or underbrush disrupting the thrower's motion.
There's much more working against you than just lack of athletic prowess. (Atleast thats what I tell myself after missing the limb for the 10th time :o)
Trailweaver
08-18-2009, 18:46
In the area where you are going, Stick, there are bear cables at the problem shelters. You can hang your food to avoid the mice at the other shelter areas, but I haven't heard of much bear activity at shelters in that area that don't have cables. Springer has a cable, I know. I was in the area several times last fall and only heard of one bear report, which was close to Springer.
ChefGlenn
08-18-2009, 21:05
It took me a while to master the PCT hanging method. I've been using light weight but very strong guy line that I purchased from the ray way site. When the bag is heavy, the line is tough on the hands, but I don't want to switch to a bulkier line. Tying the clove hitch knot above your head with the heavy bag pulling away from you is difficult at first, but eventually you get good at it. It can be even harder getting the stick out of the knot when you fetch your bag in the morning.
One trick I discovered this weekend for pulling up a heavy bag is to get a good grip on the line (you can even wrap it around a stick) and walk backwards holding the line. This is easier than trying to pull the bag up hand over hand. Once the bag is up to the limb you walk back towards the tree and collect the line as you go.
It's good to have a back-up method because, as was already mentioned, it is frequently hard to find a good tree limb at the right height. At least it can be very entertaining for your shelter mates to watch you attempting to throw a rock sack up into a tree, usually over and over again.
We hung several bags from one line last weekend at Carter Gap Shelter in NC. A mouse chewed a hole in one of the bags and helped himself to a bag of dried fruit. I can't imagine that the mouse climbed all the way up the thin line, but who knows? I'm thinking he started from above. The line was touching the ground, so just to be safe I will start suspending the line above ground.
I spoke with a thru-hiker back in May (Hot Chocolate) and he had his food bag stolen by a bear at Blood Mountain Shelter. I believe he had his line tied off to a nearby tree. Must be a damn shame to watch a bear run off with your food!
We were reading the journal at the Standing Indian Shelter in NC over the weekend and somebody wrote that one of their packs was stolen out of the shelter by a bear a few days earlier.
There were a lot of bears causing problems at shelters in the Smoky National Park back in June. At Icewater Spring Shelter we watched a bear throw himself against one of the bear cables in the hopes that a bag might shake loose. The bear cables in the Smokies have open hooks for hanging your bag, so it is important to additionally attach your bag to the wire loop with a carabiner.
Sadly, in the Smokies, I frequently had to clean people's oatmeal and pot washings out of the water sources near the shelters. Until people stop doing that, we will have to contend with crafty bears.
Found this video on youtube... hope someone finds it as helpful as I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE
Originally posted by Bidwell...
Found this video on youtube... hope someone finds it as helpful as I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE
Found this video on youtube... hope someone finds it as helpful as I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE Yesterday 21:05
Found this video on youtube... hope someone finds it as helpful as I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE Yesterday 21:05
Found this video on youtube... hope someone finds it as helpful as I did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE Yesterday 21:05
That's nice video, but...
The person in the video must have had less than 5 pounds of food. When I started out hiking in June, I had 7 days worth of food for 2 people, or about 20 pounds. I don't think the PCT method would have worked with that much weight, because running the rope through the caribiner keeps the rope in contact with the tree branch for most of its diameter. That causes a lot of friction the rope will bind easily.
I think the traditional method of bear bag hanging works better when you have a heavy food bag.
dreamsoftrails
08-19-2009, 21:04
a very, very complex process:
1. make sure all food is in bag
2. keep food bag close to thy person whilst sleeping, perhaps by commandeering it as a pillow
While a hiker may pull off sleeping with their food it's a crapshoot. You may not have a problem, but you are just playing the odds. It only takes one inquisitive bear to ruin a trip, wreck the tent, and take your food. Not to mention helping the bear become accustomed to human beings.
What's so hard about bringing 40' of line and suspend the food bag in a tree?
That's nice video, but...
The person in the video must have had less than 5 pounds of food. When I started out hiking in June, I had 7 days worth of food for 2 people, or about 20 pounds. I don't think the PCT method would have worked with that much weight, because running the rope through the caribiner keeps the rope in contact with the tree branch for most of its diameter. That causes a lot of friction the rope will bind easily.
I think the traditional method of bear bag hanging works better when you have a heavy food bag.
When the food bag is heavy I use a stick to take the weight off as I pull it up. A friend can help if you are uncoordinated but it's possible alone.
ShoelessWanderer
08-20-2009, 07:58
While a hiker may pull off sleeping with their food it's a crapshoot. You may not have a problem, but you are just playing the odds. It only takes one inquisitive bear to ruin a trip, wreck the tent, and take your food. Not to mention helping the bear become accustomed to human beings.
What's so hard about bringing 40' of line and suspend the food bag in a tree?
Or, at the very least (because there have been nights after hiking that i'm just too lazy to hang a bear bag), at least throw your food outside your tent. If the bear wants your food and it's in your tent, he'll do everything he can to get it. At least if it's outside your tent, you and your tent will come out unscathed.
Or, at the very least (because there have been nights after hiking that i'm just too lazy to hang a bear bag), at least throw your food outside your tent. If the bear wants your food and it's in your tent, he'll do everything he can to get it. At least if it's outside your tent, you and your tent will come out unscathed.
Anyone familiar with the "Hide" method? Walk at least 100 yrds from camp (into the forest, NOT down the trail. And stash your food bag in a thicket. Odds are, because Bears are creatures of habit, your bag will be there the next morning. Might not work so well with the smaller critters though.
Egads, thanks, did not want to speak up, that is how I have been doing it, kind of fun, easy, look for that special limb as soon as I get into camp, no problems yet. Reflective rope helps a lot.
pct method. i found it described most clearly at bpl.com
I just have some nylon rope I picked up at a Lowes. I want to get some paracord or some of the Kelty triptease rope but I dont want to pay for shipping (it can be as much as the rope in some places!) so I will just wait till I go somewhere that has it again.
No, I am not sleeping with it and yes, I want an Ursak so I can do just that, walk off and tie it off and come back for it later!! Gota save up for that to, amongst many other cool things I want......
I like the idea of walking backwards with the rope until it hits limb, and I did have my fiance to push it up with a broom as I was lifting it up in our backyard when I was practicing.
That would suck to have a bear take off with it because I am planning on storing all our food, stove and cookset, hygiene products, trash, and even our first aid kit inside the Outsak. I will have all of this stuff except the stove and cookset inside Opsaks though, so nothing should be able to smell it to look for it anyway, hopefully....
So what does everyone do with thier packs at night? I wanted to hang them to, but Im not sure. I would like to keep it close to our camp site just to kinda of have it near.
And no, we do not plan on staying immediately at the shelters. Possibly near them to utilize the bear cables if needed, and for some company if wanted. That will be a day by day thing, but unless we have to I dont want to stay at them.
Thanks for all the replies!
So what does everyone do with thier packs at night? I wanted to hang them to, but Im not sure. I would like to keep it close to our camp site just to kinda of have it near.
After setting up camp my pack is mostly empty. I leave it unzipped or open. Sometimes I hang it off the ground, or prop it under a tree. Sometimes it is under the vestibule. Dependson my energy level that night.
Big Dawg
08-22-2009, 08:31
a very, very complex process:
1. make sure all food is in bag
2. keep food bag close to thy person whilst sleeping, perhaps by commandeering it as a pillow
1. make sure all food is in Ursack's OPSak odorproof bag... before snuggling up.
I was camping near a guy this year who hung his food. I was sleeping w/ mine. I awoke to snack on some breakfast. He awoke to a hanging bag w/ holes in it from critters who raided his hung bag.:rolleyes:
Anyone familiar with the "Hide" method? Walk at least 100 yrds from camp (into the forest, NOT down the trail. And stash your food bag in a thicket. Odds are, because Bears are creatures of habit, your bag will be there the next morning. Might not work so well with the smaller critters though.
Yes, bears are creatures of habit. But you better go further than 100 yards. Bears have a very good sense of smell.
take-a-knee
08-22-2009, 10:34
1. make sure all food is in Ursack's OPSak odorproof bag... before snuggling up.
I was camping near a guy this year who hung his food. I was sleeping w/ mine. I awoke to snack on some breakfast. He awoke to a hanging bag w/ holes in it from critters who raided his hung bag.:rolleyes:
Yeah, 'cause he didn't do it right. You have to get the bag AT LEAST four feet from the trunk or any other limb. It really helps to get the hell away from shelters, the squirrels there are "educated".
Yes, bears are creatures of habit. But you better go further than 100 yards. Bears have a very good sense of smell.
One aspect of the stash your cache method is that all food should be in an odorproof container or double bagged in plastic. 100 yards is plenty.
I've used this method in the Canadian bush but I've not hiked the AT.
For me: Rope-over-single-limb, 12+ feet up, 4+ feet out--95% of the time.
For that other 5%, where there just aren't suitable branches, string a sturdy rope between two trees (usually there is someplace on each tree that will support the rope but would not be suitable for the single-limb method). Then throw a second rope up over the suspended rope and hang your food bag in that as if it was the single limb. Tie off to a tree trunk.
All my food will be in ziplocs, and then in Opsaks and then in an Outsak hanging (hopefully) the correct distances from branches, ground, etc.....
dreamsoftrails
08-23-2009, 11:37
While a hiker may pull off sleeping with their food it's a crapshoot. You may not have a problem, but you are just playing the odds. It only takes one inquisitive bear to ruin a trip, wreck the tent, and take your food. Not to mention helping the bear become accustomed to human beings.
What's so hard about bringing 40' of line and suspend the food bag in a tree?
well, that is exactly how a majority of food gets stolen, and how problem bears, or 'inquisitive' bears come to exist anyway.
hanging your food away from your campsite in a tree, when bears know how to climb them, is far more a crapshoot than keeping it near, when bears are much more afraid to approach you.
the majority of people either don't know how to hang food 'properly' or they are too lazy after hiking 15-20 miles to do it properly. thus food gets stolen and problem bears come about.
if food hanging were so slam dunk, that would be all they required in the parks out west. why do you think those parks have their doubts about sole reliance on food hanging and thus mandate bear cannisters?
the majority of people either don't know how to hang food 'properly' or they are too lazy after hiking 15-20 miles to do it properly. thus food gets stolen and problem bears come about.
if food hanging were so slam dunk, that would be all they required in the parks out west. why do you think those parks have their doubts about sole reliance on food hanging and thus mandate bear cannisters?
You answered your own question...
"the majority of people either don't know how to hang food 'properly' or they are too lazy after hiking 15-20 miles to do it properly. thus food gets stolen and problem bears come about. "
Keep sleeping with your food. Someday Yogi will come calling
the parks out west have different bears than on the AT
Wise Old Owl
08-23-2009, 19:07
the parks out west have different bears than on the AT
I am struggling with your statement although there are Grizzlies and Browns are out west and I have run into them, Black Bears are the true "unpredictable bear" and have the highest attacks.
So what was it you were trying to say? Up to now the population of bears in Pa/NJ has been traditionally low, but on a slow rise over the last ten years.
So what is the biggest mistake that people make hanging a bag? I mean actually hanging it, not just putting it somewhere.
Do they hang it too low? Too close to a tree? Do they not use good knots? Do they not store the smellables in smellproof sacks?
As this trip will be my first real time hanging (other than at home in the back yard) what are some things that I really need to avoid, or be watchful for?
Like I said, all my food will be in small ziplocs (individually packed), possibly in a larger ziploc (all the food together), and then in an Opsak (smell proof bag). This will be hanging inside my Outsack (wire mesh bag). I will also have toothpaste, meds, soap, etc in the Outsack, of course also in ziplocs and then in an Opsak. Also, my stove and cookset will be in the Outsack. I dont know if I will have that in a ziploc or Opsak though.
I am planning on attemping the PCT method, or possibly just the throwing it over a high branch, pulling it up to the branch and tying it off to another tree somewhere. Just whatever is my best looking option as to where I am at for the night.
Also, like I said I do not plan on really staying at the shelters, but maybe on some nights relatively close. Again, just depends on the day....
Big Dawg
08-23-2009, 22:15
Keep sleeping with your food. Someday Yogi will come calling
I will. I doubt it.
I've also been told by my wife that my LOUD snoooorrrrrrrrrring would scare away any beast in the woods.:eek::D
Mama bear to Papa bear near my campsite... "I don't care how many snickers you smell in that tent,,, we ain't goin anywhere near that smelly, 6'5", 250#, snortin human beast. YIKES... run like hellllllll.
dreamsoftrails
08-24-2009, 12:54
the parks out west have different bears than on the AT
yes... so hanging food works for black bears and not for brown bears?
or does it work for any bear, which i was getting at?
dreamsoftrails
08-24-2009, 12:57
So what is the biggest mistake that people make hanging a bag? I mean actually hanging it, not just putting it somewhere.
Do they hang it too low? Too close to a tree? Do they not use good knots? Do they not store the smellables in smellproof sacks?
As this trip will be my first real time hanging (other than at home in the back yard) what are some things that I really need to avoid, or be watchful for?
Like I said, all my food will be in small ziplocs (individually packed), possibly in a larger ziploc (all the food together), and then in an Opsak (smell proof bag). This will be hanging inside my Outsack (wire mesh bag). I will also have toothpaste, meds, soap, etc in the Outsack, of course also in ziplocs and then in an Opsak. Also, my stove and cookset will be in the Outsack. I dont know if I will have that in a ziploc or Opsak though.
I am planning on attemping the PCT method, or possibly just the throwing it over a high branch, pulling it up to the branch and tying it off to another tree somewhere. Just whatever is my best looking option as to where I am at for the night.
Also, like I said I do not plan on really staying at the shelters, but maybe on some nights relatively close. Again, just depends on the day....
mainly the ones you mentioned. the PCT method seems to be the most reliable among the hanging crowd. to me, it requires extra fiddling, and i think there is a certain degree of risk of the contraption getting tangled, and your food thus left in a tree out of your reach. the whole stick and carabiner system that is.
and i am not sure if there is such a thing as 'odor proof' bags but i could be wrong.
and i am not sure if there is such a thing as 'odor proof' bags but i could be wrong.
The Opsaks are odorproof.
"These plastic bags are 17,000 times more odor-proof than normal ziploc bags and can significantly reduce the chance of a human bear encounter."
From REI:
Certified and field tested to be odor-, humidity-, vapor- and leak-proof, these LOKSAK bags ensure secure and undisturbed closure.
Great for preventing campsite animal intrusions because foods stored inside cannot be detected through the bags
Made with a patented, high-tenacity polymer, bags are flexible and shatterproof
Bags meet FDA and USDA specifications for food contact and can even hold boiling water or be used as food freezer bags
Use to store food, rehydrate freeze-dried meals or stow toiletries
Bags can also be used to safely transport human waste
Easy-to-use closures are as simple as using a typical zip-closure type bag, but provide water-tight protection
Transparent material lets you easily view contents
Package includes three 20 x 12.5-inch bags; each bag weighs less than an ounce
Waterproof to 200 feet
john gault
08-24-2009, 19:12
Odor proof bags are useless, because you're getting the food odor all over everything you handle when you handle your food.
Odor proof bags are useless, because you're getting the food odor all over everything you handle when you handle your food.
Good point, but hey, they gotta cut down on some of the smell at least......
flemdawg1
08-24-2009, 22:57
So what is the biggest mistake that people make hanging a bag? I mean actually hanging it, not just putting it somewhere.
Do they hang it too low? Too close to a tree? Do they not use good knots? Do they not store the smellables in smellproof sacks?
As this trip will be my first real time hanging (other than at home in the back yard) what are some things that I really need to avoid, or be watchful for?
I would guess in this order:
too close to trunk (or trunk of another tree)
too close/high to branch its hanging on (for rodents you don't want them to step right off the branch onto the top of our bag)
other (rope chewed through, knot failure, too low hanging, etc)