Question for Vapor Trail owners...

[paradoxb3]

I'm planning a 2010 nobo thru, and originally started weekend to week-long hiking with a semi-heavy Deuter Vario Futura 50+10L pack, but switched later to a Granite Gear Vapor Trail. First off -- I *do* love this pack. When I bought it (at Mountain Crossings @ Neels Gap) they told me that it has a 30lb max weight limit. I was already aware of that manufacturer rating when I went to check it out, but they suggested to me that I go beyond that, and make it a 28lb. max limit...

My packed weight with fuel, water, and food for roughly 4 or 5 days hovers around 30lbs, give or take a few... I've cut down virtually everything I can cut at this point without re-buying major gear items like shelter, sleeping bag, etc... (my base items are NOT significantly heavy anyway) I go with a pop can alky stove, aquamira, and aside from some minor clothing changes I plan on making between now and then, my gear weight is basically set.

Here's my question -- If I try and thru-hike with this pack and my current weight, is the occasional extra 2 or 3 lbs over the suggested rating REALLY going to blow out the seams and leave me with a wrecked pack before I reach the big K, or are they just playing it safe with the 30lb rating? Has anyone really destroyed one of these things trying to carry 30-35lbs?

[Kaptain Kangaroo]

Well, the usual answer here......it depends........

I wouldn't consider the 30lb limit a highly specific value. It is a guide to how much the pack was designed to carry in terms of materials, construction methods & the design of the harness. How the pack performs with any given load will also depend on the user & how you treat your gear. Some people are just tough on equipment & probably would wreck the pack by carrying 30lbs (or even less). Others are easier on their gear & would not have any problems even over 30lbs.
Also the limit is a guide to the harness design. You might find that over 30lbs the harness just isn't very comfortable. But again this can vary from person to person.
Will also depend on how often you load it up. If it is always carrying 35lbs it wil proabbly wear out faster than if you load it up only occassionally.

I have a Vapour Trail & it has performed great. I have occasionally loaded it over 30lbs (lots of water & food) & not had any problems. But I am pretty easy on my gear & try to be careful with it..
It is a great pack. Good materials & well made. Look after it & it will do good service for you on your thru.
Good luck !

Kaptain

[take-a-knee]

I had a seam on a Vapor Trail (in the upper third of the pack) between the black silnylon and the side of the pack blow out. Up until that time I was quite fond of the pack. It was replaced by a much more durable ULA pack. Having said that, my daughter LOVES her Granite Gear Vapor Ki, but she doesn't load it heavy.

[Kerosene]

The other thing I've heard (I have the Nimbus Ozone but have been researching the Vapor Trail) is that the framesheet of the VT can "buckle" when the pack is overloaded, resulting in a poor fit with extra weight on your shoulders. I keep my total weight below 30 (usually 26) with my NO and can go to 35 with no problems.

[Lyle]

Start with the Vapor Trail. If it blows out and you have to buy a new pack, what are you out? Either you spend the money now and be certain to buy it, or you wait and see if you need to spend the money.

Carry a needle and some dental floss in case of a blow-out (repairs can last a long time) and a couple of phone numbers of suppliers you would move up to. ULA has my vote.

Just keep an eye on all the stress points - easier to re-enforce a failing seam than to rebuild a totally blown out one.

[Jonnycat]

The problem I had with the VT was that it wasn't adjustable, and overloading it caused too much weight on my shoulders.

I ended up getting a Nimbus Ozone, one pound heavier, and light years beyond the VT in terms of framesheet stability and adjustability.

[SteveJ]

I've carried a VT since '94, and have occassionally started the trail with over 35 lbs. I've had no problems with the pack "blowing out" or stretching seams. Some stitching in the waist belt separated. I sent it to GG and they sent me a new waist belt - no charge. I have noticed once or twice that the frame would buckle with the heavier weight, but I would just readjust the pack and it was OK. Love the pack. Am planning on using it next year on our Philmont trip.

[paradoxb3]

Thanks for all your answers! You've confirmed for me pretty much what I expected to hear. I'm pretty good on my gear and my stuff usually lasts me a long time, and as anyone knows, if day1 your pack weighs 32lbs, then by day2 or 3, it probably already weighs under 30. They just seemed to want to stress the point that it "shouldn't" carry more than 30, or 28 by their standards at Mountain Crossings. They're a great bunch of people and were very helpful, I just think they were saying that to make it clear that if I bring it back blown out, they're gonna assume I overloaded it, and its not their problem -- aka: covering their a$$es... :)

[Deadeye]

As noted, the issue with the vapor suspension isn't that too much weight will break it, but that the frame sheet may buckle, giving an uncomfortable ride. If you're going to load it up, load it carefully and cinch the compression down tight so that the whole pack bag acts as one unit - it won't bend as easily and will carry better that way.

[ChinMusic]

As with many packs, but especially the Vapor Trail, you need to tighten the compression straps well when loaded to near its limit. The fabric will tear near the top if you fail to do this.

I have noticed that the newer Vapor Trails have a different material and may not be as prone to tearing should the compression straps not be tightened.

[Rocketman]

If you are going to overload the pack, consider reinforcing the suspension by inserting some of that "plastic sign cardboard" into the space between the cushioned back and the fabric back of the main compartment where some could slip a Z-Fold mattress. It helps to have one of these packs in hand to visualize this. I slipped such a sign in mine at home, but never used it in the field because I had bought just the very thin plastic cardboard sign.

That "Plastic sign cardboard", like the material the US Post Office uses for letter cartons in the Post Office, comes in a couple of thicknesses. You may want to experiment with a couple of dollars worth of sheets of the stuff in different thicknesses. You might be able to get some free from the Post Office as well.

If you get some heavy plastic cardboard, you might be able to cut it into a "U" shape and get two side vertical reinforcements out of it with less weight.

You might be able to try something with aluminum bars or tubes, but it doesn't appear as if the pack can be much taken apart to work with sewing stuff inside it. That could be in error, and somebody clever may have done it already.

My base weight was 24 lbs, and I often loaded up with 4 lbs of water and 5 days food, so the weight was over 30 lbs. I cinched the bag tight, and never had any problems.

[paradoxb3]

If you are going to overload the pack, consider reinforcing the suspension by inserting some of that "plastic sign cardboard" into the space between the cushioned back and the fabric back of the main compartment where some could slip a Z-Fold mattress. It helps to have one of these packs in hand to visualize this. I slipped such a sign in mine at home, but never used it in the field because I had bought just the very thin plastic cardboard sign.

That "Plastic sign cardboard", like the material the US Post Office uses for letter cartons in the Post Office, comes in a couple of thicknesses. You may want to experiment with a couple of dollars worth of sheets of the stuff in different thicknesses. You might be able to get some free from the Post Office as well.

If you get some heavy plastic cardboard, you might be able to cut it into a "U" shape and get two side vertical reinforcements out of it with less weight.

You might be able to try something with aluminum bars or tubes, but it doesn't appear as if the pack can be much taken apart to work with sewing stuff inside it. That could be in error, and somebody clever may have done it already.

My base weight was 24 lbs, and I often loaded up with 4 lbs of water and 5 days food, so the weight was over 30 lbs. I cinched the bag tight, and never had any problems.

wow that makes alot of sense... and btw that plastic cardboard stuff is called coroplast... friends of mine used to use it to construct cheap RC airplanes called SPAD's (simple plastic airplane design) :)

i might experiment with that if i have any comfort issues, however going as far as to add aluminum frames to a vapor trail just seems kinda counter-productive... ;)

[take-a-knee]

The other thing I've heard (I have the Nimbus Ozone but have been researching the Vapor Trail) is that the framesheet of the VT can "buckle" when the pack is overloaded, resulting in a poor fit with extra weight on your shoulders. I keep my total weight below 30 (usually 26) with my NO and can go to 35 with no problems.

Carrying a full platypus between the framesheet and the pack lessens this, IME. If your framesheet "buckles" (curls towards your back) your likely have a pack one size too large.

[Spokes]

I hiked with a guy who used the Vapor Trail. He'd pack the darn thing so full it looked like he was carrying a load of rocks in the darn thing. Too funny.

He blew out the right shoulder seam near Glencliff, NH and stitched it up using fishing line. Looked like a wicker chair when he got done. Sad to say his sewing job immediately started to unravel.

Last I heard he switched to a Osprey Atmos 65.

[spirit4earth]

does it work well to put a hydration bladder in the slot between the padding and the pack, rather than in the internal pocket?

[Rocketman]

wow that makes alot of sense... and btw that plastic cardboard stuff is called coroplast... friends of mine used to use it to construct cheap RC airplanes called SPAD's (simple plastic airplane design) :)

i might experiment with that if i have any comfort issues, however going as far as to add aluminum frames to a vapor trail just seems kinda counter-productive... ;)

I managed to find some of the 1/4" thick coroplast from a sign company that had stopped doing business. I ended up with enough to make 8 chunks of about 11" wide by 15 " long with the corrugations running the long way.

When I get time. I will try different shapes as inserts for stiffening up the Vapor Trail model. Full sheet, sheet with central cutouts, "U" shaped sheet for edge stiffening and lower weight ....

Again, with care in maintaining good (not extreme) tension in the shell, I experienced no problem in carrying loads somewhat over 30 lbs (about 24 lbs base weight plus nearly 4 lbs of water plus food for five days).

[FamilyGuy]

As with many packs, but especially the Vapor Trail, you need to tighten the compression straps well when loaded to near its limit. The fabric will tear near the top if you fail to do this.

Not over 1200 miles have I had a tear. Is this a fact or are you guessing?

[ChinMusic]

Not over 1200 miles have I had a tear. Is this a fact or are you guessing?
Not that the likes of you care one bit but here are the pics of the tears. GG replaced this pack and have indeed changed the material used.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Backpacking/VaporTrailLeft.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b186/ChinMusicIHSS/Backpacking/VaporTrailRight.jpg

If I post it as fact, it is fact. If I post an it as opinion, it's opinion. You should try it sometime.

[FamilyGuy]

Take a pill chief. You were clearly overloading the pack with too much weight. The load lifters don't magically relieve the pressure on the seams.

Are you still drinking that Steripen water?

[ChinMusic]

Take a pill chief. You were clearly overloading the pack with too much weight. The load lifters don't magically relieve the pressure on the seams.


I never carried over 30 pounds and was usually under 25. Granite Gear has changed the material they use in this area.

Do the math.

[FamilyGuy]

How will the load lifters relieve the pressure on the seams (although with the second picture the tear isn't on the seam so there goes that theory)?

[ChinMusic]

How will the load lifters relieve the pressure on the seams (although with the second picture the tear isn't on the seam so there goes that theory)?
The tightening of the straps removes/relieves tension from the material at the seam. It is the reason the strap exists. It is obvious. Go troll some other forum.

[FamilyGuy]

The load lifter pull the weight closer to the back and lift the load OFF the shoulders and redirects it to the hips. If it was for seams why not call it a seam reliever.

I am not trolling, I just prefer truth to fiction.

[ChinMusic]

The load lifter pull the weight closer to the back and lift the load OFF the shoulders and redirects it to the hips. If it was for seams why not call it a seam reliever.

I am not trolling, I just prefer truth to fiction.
Why not ask GG, as I did. The strap is to take pressure off the seam. GG changed the material to help eliminate such tears. I do not know what year this change was made.

I'd tell you stop before you make a fool of yourself, but that would be remiss.

[FamilyGuy]

I think you should have whispered that in your own ear a few posts back.

[ChinMusic]

Look, you have shown in multiple threads that you have NO IDEA what you are typing about.......NONE.

I guess you wouldn't know a load-lifter strap if it bit you either. I have tried to explain to you that these straps are NOT load-lifters but you won't listen.

Anyone familiar with a GG VT know what these straps are. There are the ones that go horizontally just below the opening. They are designed to take the pressure off seams. They "lift" nothing.

I have even posted pictures of these seams and you still don't understand. I frankly do not care that YOU are lost. I am concerned that readers will read your words and not know how wrong you are.

So, are you dim or just being intentionally obtuse?

[FamilyGuy]

I prove that you have no idea what you are talking about and you become intentionally abusive.:rolleyes:

I can take it, though.

What makes your stupidity really insufferable is that it is forever in action - idiocy knows no rest.

I am done with this - you win.

[ChinMusic]

I am done with this - you win.
I have won if others look at your "information" with hesitation.

I KNOW you are done. I think you finally realized what strap this is.

[FamilyGuy]

I have won if others look at your "information" with hesitation.

I KNOW you are done. I think you finally realized what strap this is.

Okay, I am back.

No - you are completely incorrect. LEARN, LEARN, LEARN about how packs function. You are so off base that I have received two PM's from others indicating that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Do your homework before you post because your lack of due diligence (and posting damage to a pack that has nothing to do with load lifters) is irresponsible and at the very least, dishonest.

[ChinMusic]

LOL, AGAIN, the straps are NOT load-lifting.

Here is a pic from GG's site:

http://www.granitegear.com/images/products/backpacks/ultra/vt3.jpg

The straps in question are at the level of the Vapor Trail logo and exist only to keep the pressure off the seams by compression.

Troll on.........

[FamilyGuy]

So when I say Load Lifters and you agree, then post some incorrect info about what load lifters are for, and then post a picture of compression straps which for obvious reasons are not load lifters....

Well, I think we are speaking about two completely different straps.

Sly dog you.

[ChinMusic]

Well, I think we are speaking about two completely different straps.

I tried to explain to you. I posted pictures. YOU chose to remain obtuse.

Glad you FINALLY realized you WRONG your comments were.

[FamilyGuy]

I tried to explain to you. I posted pictures. YOU chose to remain obtuse.

Glad you FINALLY realized you WRONG your comments were.

Ha!

You agreed that it was the load lifters at first. You could have been less obtuse - no? But that is how you post: to suit your needs.

Hugs and kisses.

[ChinMusic]

Ha!

You agreed that it was the load lifters at first. You could have been less obtuse - no? But that is how you post: to suit your needs.

Read my FIRST post in this thread. I called it a "compression strap" from post one. I continued to call it a compression strap each time I labelled it.

It is YOU that continually mislabelled it a load-lifter.

[FamilyGuy]

Read my FIRST post in this thread. I called it a "compression strap" from post one. I continued to call it a compression strap each time I labelled it.

It is YOU that continually mislabelled it a load-lifter.

And YOU who agreed and then argued with me.:eek:

[ChinMusic]

And YOU who agreed and then argued with me.:eek:
I haven't agreed with you on ANYTHING.....other than you being wrong.

EVERY post where I labeled the strap I called it a "compression". I even posted pics of the tears.

You were lost as per usual.

[Appalachian Tater]

I'm planning a 2010 nobo thru, and originally started weekend to week-long hiking with a semi-heavy Deuter Vario Futura 50+10L pack, but switched later to a Granite Gear Vapor Trail. First off -- I *do* love this pack. When I bought it (at Mountain Crossings @ Neels Gap) they told me that it has a 30lb max weight limit. I was already aware of that manufacturer rating when I went to check it out, but they suggested to me that I go beyond that, and make it a 28lb. max limit...

My packed weight with fuel, water, and food for roughly 4 or 5 days hovers around 30lbs, give or take a few... I've cut down virtually everything I can cut at this point without re-buying major gear items like shelter, sleeping bag, etc... (my base items are NOT significantly heavy anyway) I go with a pop can alky stove, aquamira, and aside from some minor clothing changes I plan on making between now and then, my gear weight is basically set.

Here's my question -- If I try and thru-hike with this pack and my current weight, is the occasional extra 2 or 3 lbs over the suggested rating REALLY going to blow out the seams and leave me with a wrecked pack before I reach the big K, or are they just playing it safe with the 30lb rating? Has anyone really destroyed one of these things trying to carry 30-35lbs?


Prior to my 2006 thru I bought a Vapor Trail by mail after a lot of research. When I loaded it up with 25 pounds it was extremely uncomfortable and was digging in my shoulders. I returned it and got a Nimbus Ozone. In my opinion the extra weight is definitely worth the additional comfort and carrying capacity--with the sleeve at top you can resupply much less often if you choose to do so, just eat the heavier food first.

The Nimbus Ozone split along the vertical seams twice pretty much like in the pics posted in this thread and had to be replaced which Granite Gear did without hassling me. It was a failure of the fabric not the sewing of the seam. The compression straps do help prevent this from happening. I take very good care of my equipment but the first time I did contribute to the problem by filling the pack and then trying to slip my tent into it. It did not fail immediately but that afternoon I noticed a split. However, I did not misuse or abuse the pack and it should not have split. It was the volume and pressure that caused the problem, not the weight itself, the weight is more of a comfort issue.

The second time it split for no apparent reason and was not overstuffed. In both instances a small split appeared and got worse slowly allowing time to call and get a replacement which they sent without charging me, just a credit card number in case I didn't make the return, if I remember correctly.

The first split was around Damascus and the second split was around Gorham.

I would still purchase a Granite Gear pack despite the shortcomings like the straps blocking the outside pockets.

[ChinMusic]

The Nimbus Ozone split along the vertical seams twice pretty much like in the pics posted in this thread and had to be replaced which Granite Gear did without hassling me. It was a failure of the fabric not the sewing of the seam. The compression straps do help prevent this from happening.
Mine were tears of the fabric right next to the seam as well, sort of a distinction without a difference.

I felt that the damage was a combination of user error (mine, for not tightening the compression straps) and a design error (weak material at a stress point). GG has changed the fabric in this area (I have the newer model now). GG replaced my pack, which sort of surprised me as I was just looking for a repair.

I posted the pics so others would be reminded that such straps are for the strength of the pack.

The Vapor Trail has been the most comfortable pack I have ever owned. I hate how it loads and hate it not having a mesh pocket, but I love how it rides.

[paintplongo]

I started with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail and ended with a ULA, don't do what I did and just get the ULA to start with so you're not wasting money.

[ChinMusic]

I started with a Granite Gear Vapor Trail and ended with a ULA, don't do what I did and just get the ULA to start with so you're not wasting money.

Please tell us what you like about the ULA over the GG VT.

I know I would like an outside pocket. I have not worn a ULA but can't imagine it being more comfortable than the VT. There are TONS of folks that have done a thru with the VT.

[drichi]

I am interested in what ULA pack is about the same size as a vapor trail, circuit? dave

[take-a-knee]

Not over 1200 miles have I had a tear. Is this a fact or are you guessing?

Well, my Vapor Trail sure as hell blew out, looked just like Chin's. I can't take a pic for you 'cause it went back to REI. It is ULA all the way for me now.

[take-a-knee]

I am interested in what ULA pack is about the same size as a vapor trail, circuit? dave

Exactly, I have a Catalyst and it is a LOT bigger than my defunct GGVT. The Circuit will be my next pack.

[ChinMusic]

Well, my Vapor Trail sure as hell blew out, looked just like Chin's. I can't take a pic for you 'cause it went back to REI. It is ULA all the way for me now.
I have the newer Vapor Trail now. They have changed the material and I doubt that the new ones will "blow out".

That said, I still want to hear the virtues of the ULA over the GG VT. Especially from folks that have used both.

[take-a-knee]

I have the newer Vapor Trail now. They have changed the material and I doubt that the new ones will "blow out".

That said, I still want to hear the virtues of the ULA over the GG VT. Especially from folks that have used both.

I've hiked about twenty or so days with a Vapor Trail and about half that with a ULA Catalyst. The ULA suspension is way better, but what makes it absolutely rock is the outer mesh pocket arrangement. The only thing I ever have to open my pack for before the end of the day is warm clothing and my cook kit if I decide to heat something. Everything else rides securely and most accessible in those three mesh pockets. You'd swear someone who'd actually lived out of a pack for weeks at a time designed it, and guess what, you'd be correct.

[ChinMusic]

I've hiked about twenty or so days with a Vapor Trail and about half that with a ULA Catalyst. The ULA suspension is way better, but what makes it absolutely rock is the outer mesh pocket arrangement. The only thing I ever have to open my pack for before the end of the day is warm clothing and my cook kit if I decide to heat something. Everything else rides securely and most accessible in those three mesh pockets. You'd swear someone who'd actually lived out of a pack for weeks at a time designed it, and guess what, you'd be correct.
Thanks. If and when I'm on the market for a new one I'll be sure to have the Catalyst on my short list.

Did you consider the Circuit or Ohm?

[FamilyGuy]

Well, my Vapor Trail sure as hell blew out, looked just like Chin's. I can't take a pic for you 'cause it went back to REI. It is ULA all the way for me now.

I wasn't talking to you.

[FamilyGuy]

The Catalyst in terms of load carrying ability competes more with the Nimbus line of packs. Comparing the VT to the Catalyst is like comparing the VT to a frameless ruck.

The VT competes directly with the Circuit in terms of features and price point. The Circuit's suspension is much more ridgid than that of the VT.

If you wait a few months, however, the second generation VT suspension will debut. More robust, stiffer but laterally flexible, and fully adjustable in terms of torso size.

[ChinMusic]

I wasn't talking to you.

How DARE you take-a-knee........:rolleyes:

[FamilyGuy]

How DARE you take-a-knee........:rolleyes:

I REALLY don't need your help. Thanks:welcome

[ChinMusic]

I REALLY don't need your help. Thanks:welcome
I'm still waiting for you to post something that makes sense.

[take-a-knee]

Thanks. If and when I'm on the market for a new one I'll be sure to have the Catalyst on my short list.

Did you consider the Circuit or Ohm?

No and I'll tell you why. I was northbound on the BMT in GA last spring and I ran into a guy SOBO who'd just walked from Key West, headed to Neels Gap. He and his wife thru'd the AT the previous year. He had done other long hikes that I don't recall. He was using one of the new Circuits with the carbon hoop, he said it was hands down, the most comfortable pack he'd ever used. As we were standing in the rain chatting, he had no reason to make that up. He was also wearing a ULA rain skirt that he said he was quite pleased with.

If I lived closer to the mountains and got to do lots of weekends, I'd consider an Ohm. I just don't know if it would have enough room for me. I'm a hammocker so I also have a down underquilt to store, in addition to my topquilt. It isn't the weight, it's the bulk, and I hate having to shoe-horn gear into a pack.

[ChinMusic]

No and I'll tell you why. I was northbound on the BMT in GA last spring and I ran into a guy SOBO who'd just walked from Key West, headed to Neels Gap. He and his wife thru'd the AT the previous year. He had done other long hikes that I don't recall. He was using one of the new Circuits with the carbon hoop, he said it was hands down, the most comfortable pack he'd ever used. As we were standing in the rain chatting, he had no reason to make that up. He was also wearing a ULA rain skirt that he said he was quite pleased with.

You didn't state as to "no and......why" on the Ciruit.

I am nearly always under 30 even in winter.

[FamilyGuy]

I'm still waiting for you to post something that makes sense.

Well at your age senility is a factor so I understand your confusion.

[Dogwood]

Paradoxb3, even though I aslo agree with some others who have said you can go over the 30 lb mark ocassionally with the GG VT you just have to always keep in mind that the more you over wt the pack or the longer you use it overweighted that is that much more stress you place on the pack and possibly your body, particularly in the shoulders. I used the 06 and 07 VT for awhile, loved it, but I also got some stretched and unraveled seams on the rear of the pack where the colored flaps connect to the rear compression straps. I however don't think my problems occurred because I had sometimes over weighted the pack, but because my gear took up too much volume for the pack. I had to cinch the pack down hard when the cowling was fully extended from a fully loaded pack and I had gear attached to the rear of the pack via those compresssion straps. I must say that of my three Vapor Trails the two that I sent back to Granite Gear were promptly factory resewn and came back with stronger seams then before at no charge to me. And, consider these were not faulty seams due to the manufacturer they were problems brought on because of the way I misused the pack.

If you are using it as your main pack to thru the AT I think there is a good probability you will lower your volume and wt. as you get further into your thru-hike. Since you are close to the max carrying wt recommended by Granite Gear already I think by the mid pt. of your thru you will be below the packs's wt limit consistently and will have to deal with an over weighted pack less often.

[take-a-knee]

You didn't state as to "no and......why" on the Ciruit.

I am nearly always under 30 even in winter.

1) I don't think a pack smaller than a Circuit would have enough volume for me.

2) A Circuit is the lightest ULA pack that has a built-in foam backpad. This would serve as my foot insulation if I had to sleep on the ground.

3) At 36oz, the Circuit is "light enough" for me.

4) I drink water like a fish, I usually carry three quarts, sometimes four when it is dry, add 6-7 days food and the Ohm would be overloaded with even a light baseweight. If I could do more 2-3 day trips, I'd buy an Ohm. If I can move to E. Tennessee in a couple of years, I'll own one.

I'm planning on hiking the VA AT next summer, with that light summer load, covering 16-18 mi/day, I could resupply every 3-4 days max. An Ohm might be the ticket, we'll see.

[paintplongo]

Please tell us what you like about the ULA over the GG VT.

I know I would like an outside pocket. I have not worn a ULA but can't imagine it being more comfortable than the VT. There are TONS of folks that have done a thru with the VT.

The fact that the VT hasn't been updated in 6 years says alot about them as a company. I'm sorry, but at one point GG ran the thru hiking pack industry, but not anymore. They've become complacent and haven't adapted as well as some companies have. Hipbelt pockets are a huge thing they still don't have. Water bladders instead of water bottles? Most serious thrus don't use bladders because they're heavy, prone to failure and a pain in the butt.

[Berserker]

I have the newer Vapor Trail now. They have changed the material and I doubt that the new ones will "blow out".

That said, I still want to hear the virtues of the ULA over the GG VT. Especially from folks that have used both.
I had a VT (probably around a 2005 model...some things may have changed on it since then), and recently purchased a Circuit (2009 model). Packs are like shoes, and for me the Circuit is hands down a much more comfortable pack to wear. I also feel that the features on it are superior to the VT, and not to mention it weighs 5 oz less than the VT with the optional stay installed (comparing a large VT to a large Circuit).

A couple of the options that the Circuit has that are not on the VT are the mesh front and side pockets, and the hip belt pockets. The mesh pockets are larger and hold more volume. The hipbelt pockets are just down right cool because they are sewn on to the hipbelt. Oh yeah, and there is a bungee cord on the front for attaching items like Crocs. I also like the fact that you can get an optional stay, and the pack is comfortable with over 30 lbs of weight in it, which exceeds what I could comfortably carry in the VT. Probably my favorite feature though is the hipbelt. The strap for tightening the belt is sewn on at 2 points on each side allowing for the top and bottom of each side to be adjusted independently. The reason I like this is that I have a considerable amount of difficulty keeping a pack up on my non-existent hips, and this level of adjustability allows me to get it to stay put.

[ChinMusic]

Sounds great. But, I don't blame GG for not making many changes to the VT. Obviously tons of folks liked the design/feel. New Coke didn't go over well in the 80s.

My VT does have a hip belt pocket, but is an add-on. I also have an add-on pocket on my strap to hold my GPS. I would guess the strap pocket would transfer over easily.

So. Catalyst or Circuit for someone used to the size of a VT? I'm liking what I'm hearing.

[paintplongo]

Sounds great. But, I don't blame GG for not making many changes to the VT. Obviously tons of folks liked the design/feel. New Coke didn't go over well in the 80s.

My VT does have a hip belt pocket, but is an add-on. I also have an add-on pocket on my strap to hold my GPS. I would guess the strap pocket would transfer over easily.

So. Catalyst or Circuit for someone used to the size of a VT? I'm liking what I'm hearing.

Coke is a drink, not technology..lol..

I'd recommend the Circuit, I found my Catalyst to be too big after switching from the VT.

[ChinMusic]

I'd recommend the Circuit, I found my Catalyst to be too big after switching from the VT.
Thanks, that was what I was thinking but wanted someone else to say it.

I carry my 32-oz Gatorade bottle in a pouch attached to my hip belt because I am not flexible enough to reach the side pockets on my VT. I find the side pockets on the VT nearly worthless.

Can one, with reasonable ease, reach the side pockets on the Circuit? With those sown-in belt pockets I don't know if I could attach my drink pouch to the belt.

[take-a-knee]

Thanks, that was what I was thinking but wanted someone else to say it.

I carry my 32-oz Gatorade bottle in a pouch attached to my hip belt because I am not flexible enough to reach the side pockets on my VT. I find the side pockets on the VT nearly worthless.

Can one, with reasonable ease, reach the side pockets on the Circuit? With those sown-in belt pockets I don't know if I could attach my drink pouch to the belt.

Those side mesh pockets will hold TWO gatorade bottles each. I haven't done that on the trail but they will fit, though snugly. Getting the bottle out is easy for me, getting it back in the pocket is a bit of a stretch. I don't do it much because I use a Platypus and drinking tube to hydrate as I walk. The 24oz, tall, skinny gatorade bottles are what I used with the GGVT. I couldn't get them back in the pocket while wearing the pack though.

[paintplongo]

Thanks, that was what I was thinking but wanted someone else to say it.

I carry my 32-oz Gatorade bottle in a pouch attached to my hip belt because I am not flexible enough to reach the side pockets on my VT. I find the side pockets on the VT nearly worthless.

Can one, with reasonable ease, reach the side pockets on the Circuit? With those sown-in belt pockets I don't know if I could attach my drink pouch to the belt.

I went bladderless and recommend you do the same. With that said, I could reach my waterbottle holders just fine on my ULA pack. Good Luck!

[Berserker]

Coke is a drink, not technology..lol..

I'd recommend the Circuit, I found my Catalyst to be too big after switching from the VT.
I agree. I haven't used a Catalyst, but the Circuit is fairly comparable in size to the VT. The only additional volume the VT has over the Circuit is if one uses most of the extension collar.

[Berserker]

Those side mesh pockets will hold TWO gatorade bottles each. I haven't done that on the trail but they will fit, though snugly. Getting the bottle out is easy for me, getting it back in the pocket is a bit of a stretch. I don't do it much because I use a Platypus and drinking tube to hydrate as I walk. The 24oz, tall, skinny gatorade bottles are what I used with the GGVT. I couldn't get them back in the pocket while wearing the pack though.
Yeah, a 1 liter platy hoser fits really nice in a side pocket too.

[spacetree]

I carry my 32-oz Gatorade bottle in a pouch attached to my hip belt because I am not flexible enough to reach the side pockets on my VT. I find the side pockets on the VT nearly worthless.


I had this same problem with the VT. I used a hot knife to cut two slits each in the side pockets so I could run the compression strap under the pocket. With the sides cinched down I could get a 32 oz bottle back into the VT side pocket pretty easily.

[coldspring]

I had this same problem with the VT. I used a hot knife to cut two slits each in the side pockets so I could run the compression strap under the pocket. With the sides cinched down I could get a 32 oz bottle back into the VT side pocket pretty easily.

I just cut my straps off, I thought everyone did this? I have no trouble getting my bottles in and out of the pouch while hiking at a regular pace.

I added some arrow shaft stays inside my framesheet sleeve. The pack now has a feeling of carrying 5lbs lighter, at least.

[LimpsAlong]

As noted, the issue with the vapor suspension isn't that too much weight will break it, but that the frame sheet may buckle, giving an uncomfortable ride. If you're going to load it up, load it carefully and cinch the compression down tight so that the whole pack bag acts as one unit - it won't bend as easily and will carry better that way.
Excellent tip, thanks. My son-in-law has one and this will benefit him,

[LimpsAlong]

Well at your age senility is a factor so I understand your confusion.

That was wrong! Age dont make a difference in confusion or remembering things. I was just thinking that .uh, well maybe you, uh. Damn! Never mind.

[Chaco Taco]

I have a nimbus meridian that I have more or less converted into a Vapor Trail. Its much more sturdy than a vapor trail IMHO. The hydration pouch is fine for a bladder, just release the front loader zipper to release some pressure on the sleeve so you can get the bladder out.

[jombo22]

Water bladders instead of water bottles? Most serious thrus don't use bladders because they're heavy, prone to failure and a pain in the butt.

I've never heard of anyone's Platypus or Camelbak failing before, assuming that they didn't use it for anything other than water. Using them for sports drinks, alcohol, etc is generally not advised, I think. Those other liquids have things in them that can eat away at the material, foster bacteria growth, etc.

And I'm not quite sure "serious thrus" is a fair term to use. I would consider anybody who finishes the trail pretty darn "serious"! And many people do hike the entire length of the trail with a bladder. Are these people simply "amateur" thrus?

Can't argue with them being heavy. My Platypus 3L bladder weighs about 4 ounces, and Camelbaks tend to be even heavier. I could probably save ~2 ounces if I went to water bottles instead of a bladder.

However, I find them to be a great convenience and not a pain in the butt at all. I drink much more consistently if I have a bladder. I'm prone to not drinking until I'm thirsty if I have to reach around, pull out a bottle, unscrew the lid, stop walking to take a drink, screw the lid back on, reach around and put the bottle back.

For me, I find that the ability to hydrate myself more steadily and easily is worth the extra 2 ounces.

[jombo22]

(can't edit)

I should have started that post by saying "with all due respect". You probably have more experience than I do. However, I know what works for me, and I have met or seen gear lists of a number of thru hikers who use a bladder. I don't think there's any reason to look down on using one.

[ChinMusic]

Since this is a Vapor Trail thread, I would say that bladder users would be more happy with the VT than bottle users (such as myself).

The side pockets are just too dang hard to use and I have had to add a pouch to my hip belt to accommodate my Gatorade bottle. This is not a deal-breaker for me as the VT is just so comfortable.

I would prob go with a ULA Circuit next time.

[Miner]

I have a question. I have a 2006 VT and that model year has a very small hole for a drinking tube (ie. you have to remove everything from the tube to get it through the hole as the bite valve or a quick disconnect adaptor are too big). This was always a pain to remove the bladder to clean it and reinstall it. Did they ever fix this issue on the new ones? I haven't really used my VT in the last 2 years as I now have a ULA pack which is easy to use with a bladder or a resevoir. But I remember that issue irritating me enough that I wrote Granite Gear a letter about it.