When is it too heavy? Where do you draw the line? [Archive] - WhiteBlaze

View Full Version : When is it too heavy? Where do you draw the line?

garlic08

09-13-2009, 21:52

This is in response to a similar topic on the ultralight forum--When is it too light? Where do you draw the line?. There have been some really good responses, and it made me think about the converse--When is it too heavy?

I'm a middle-aged guy who gave up backpacking at age 40 due to chronic tendon pain and damage. A few years later I got introduced to UL gear and techniques and I hit the trails like never before. So I can honestly say my pack back then was too heavy for me. It hurt. A 100 mile hike took months to recover from. I now hike months on end painfree and with no meds.

Based on my experience, a pack is too heavy if it causes pain or damage, or necessitates the use of pain medication. I see so many stress fractures, shin splints, knee braces, bloody blisters, and so much limping and self-medication, and I know that person's pack is too heavy. I recognize the threshold is widely variable for each person. Plenty of hikers are happy with a 40 pound load, others chafe at 20.

Cool AT Breeze

09-13-2009, 22:04

Here at MTXINGS we try to get hikers out below 35#.

Jack Tarlin

09-13-2009, 22:24

If your knees hurt, you're probably packing too much stuff.

And if you arrive at a Re-Supply point with two or three days worth of supplies, you're packing too much food.

And most people bring too many clothes. If you finish a three or four day stretch and discover stuff you haven't worn (except for cold/bad weather stuff), consider whether or not you really need it. Those extra socks, underwear, T-shirts, bandannas, etc. all add up.

Finally, regularly evaluate all the little things in your pack, the tools, repair kits, personal items, hygeine/first aid items, "luxury" items, etc. Most people carry too much of this stuff and they rarely use it.

Jim Adams

09-13-2009, 22:33

I hit Springer in 1990 with no long distance hiking experience or knowledge and a 72 lb. pack with 10 days of food.(figured that I would get my next maildrop in Fontana ten days later) First day was Springer to Hawk. Second day was Hawk to Gooch Gap Shelter. Third day-0 at Gooch Gap. Fourth day-0 at Gooch Gap. Fifth day in Blood Mountain Hut. Sixth day and seventh day at the hostel at Mt. Crossings. I started to carry less food and continued eventually to get my pack weight down to 41 lbs by the end of the trail. I was only 37 at the time and alot stronger than I am today.
Now my pack weight is 26-28 lbs. with 4 days food, 1 liter of water and a liter of whiskey...I wish that it was lighter but I am not willing to compromise any further.
BTW, 1990 I met and became friends with Mule...his pack on Springer was 100 lbs.
2007 I attempted a thru of the PCT but only made it 1,000 miles. My heaviest pack weight was in the desert at 62 lbs. and included 8 liters of water. I was 54 years old then. Sierra pack weight was down to 38 lbs...weight didn't affect me quiting, money and desire did.

geek

Wise Old Owl

09-13-2009, 23:13

http://clydesoles.com/PhotoGallery/AmaDablam/images/Cook%20and%20Ama.jpg

When you need a sherpa?

Wise Old Owl

09-13-2009, 23:15

http://www.skiingthebackcountry.com/images/tb530_476.jpg

When there is no snow in sight?

Blissful

09-13-2009, 23:20

If your knees hurt, you're probably packing too much stuff.

This statement is vague. Your knees can certainly hurt descending, for example, off Mt Madison after months of hiking. And I was carrying 28 lbs and I needed every stitch of what I had and suffered from extreme knee pain. There are many causes of knee pain and not just pack weight.

But true one does need to evaluate the unecessary items and carry what you need. Lesser pack weight certainly can help the knees and other limbs, among other things one can do such as wearing the proper footwear for your foot and body type and eating the proper nutrition (both of which can also affect a hike and your muscles, tendons, and ligaments). In fact, people are so obsessed with things like pack weight, no one seems to care what nutrition they are putting into their bodies. Can't expect overtaxed muscles (that are essential damaged, by the way) to heal eating stuffing mixes for dinner. A beef with me.

Jayboflavin04

09-14-2009, 09:57

Just curious? Garlic do you use trekking poles even tho your a UL'er. (being you had previous problems).

bigcranky

09-14-2009, 11:48

When there is no snow in sight?

Oh my word, he is walking in on his ski boots. Ow ow ow ow ow.

Gray Blazer

09-14-2009, 11:52

Here at MTXINGS we try to get hikers out below 35#.
Woo hoo!! I'm in there! BTW, I've gotten my best gear at MTXINGS.

garlic08

09-14-2009, 12:24

Just curious? Garlic do you use trekking poles even tho your a UL'er. (being you had previous problems).

On thru hikes, I always carry at least one pole, for my tarp support, too. I used two on my AT hike and I think they did help for stability on the descents and in the rocks and muddy roots. Every once in a while I think they help prevent joint soreness, too, by taking a little load off when needed. I don't use a pole on day hikes so I'm not married to them.

sbhikes

09-14-2009, 14:04

I agree that a light pack weight is better for your health and safety. My baseweight was around 12lbs and yet I still ended up with tendonitis and other problems.

Part of the problem is when your pack is light you can hike a longer distance, but if you hike a longer distance you get hungrier so your pack weight goes back up again. And hiking a long distance each day might give some people (like me) tendonitis even without a pack at all.

Tipi Walter

09-14-2009, 18:50

The question, "how much is too much", is interesting and can be easily tested. I routinely backpack with 75lb loads and just finished an 11 day trip with a beginning weight of around 80lbs and dropped to near 40-45 by trip's end. Food, books, 9 raw eggs, loaves of bread, 32oz of fuel, etc etc.

In my mind there's a fine line between heavy and too heavy, for me it comes at around 90lbs. My trips usually encompass 12 days w/o resupply and so I like to have anything on my back for an extended stay. But I know when to bow out and go no further. It's a high number though, way beyond what the ULers would ponder or could even imagine. Of course, I don't need to move 20 or 30 miles every day either.

Captn

09-14-2009, 19:39

Over 30 is too much.

CowHead

09-14-2009, 19:42

wow too heavy I think we all been there once or twice or 34 times, if i'm under 35 lbs i'm happy

Jack Tarlin

09-14-2009, 19:44

Over 30 might be too much for YOU.

At the end of the day, where people "draw the line" on weight is up to them.
Carry what you like, and make sure you like what you carry. What works for other folks might not work for you. People that have a pathological interest in what other folks are carrying or using, or who feel the need to make comments or give unwanted advice are easily dealt with on the Trail: Smile at them and ignore 'em.

Captn

09-17-2009, 19:40

slowandlow

09-17-2009, 20:46

Over 30 is too much.

Over 30 is too much for me too. I am usually around 20-24 fully loaded, with clothing good to the 20 degree range (less weight for warm weather) and do not lack comfort in camp. Some people say you can gear up to be comfortable hiking or camping but not both. I seem to have found the perfect middle ground for me.

Tipi Walter

09-17-2009, 21:48

Over 30 is too much for me too. I am usually around 20-24 fully loaded, with clothing good to the 20 degree range (less weight for warm weather) and do not lack comfort in camp. Some people say you can gear up to be comfortable hiking or camping but not both. I seem to have found the perfect middle ground for me.

When you say 20-24lbs fully loaded, this is an unqualified number as you do not mention in any way the amount of time you're out. Is it for one night? For 15?

Captn

09-18-2009, 10:24

When you say 20-24lbs fully loaded, this is an unqualified number as you do not mention in any way the amount of time you're out. Is it for one night? For 15?

I can do up to 5 days, 4 nights right around 26 lbs, assuming water is not 10 miles between sources.

I can cut my weight even futher if my 17 year old comes along :D

john gault

09-18-2009, 10:48

It's not about weight. It's about how much one goes past one's own potential. Anyone can build themselves up to carry much more than they perceive as "too heavy". Just as they can build themselves up to run a marathon without injury.

I believe most that suffer chronic pains are because they "toughed" it out and caused irreparable damage, but on the flip side those that go sedentary for long periods of time and then get back into a particular activity are causing severe damage. In the same way as someone that continuously losses and gains weight on a continual basis. The trick is to slowly work into it and maintain a constant strain (physical activity).

And all this crap about low-impact exercises is BS; it’s just a selling strategy for all them stupid ass exercise machines on infomercials. The body needs to be stressed, by running, weightlifting or whatever. And anyone that thinks bicycling is a good low-impact exercise on the knees; they need to go ride through the mountains. Do a back-to-back trip of Skyline drive and Blue Ridge parkway and your knees will be screaming; the worst knee pain I’ve ever experienced was after a 500 mile ride through the mountains. But hiking gave me my worst foot pains.

Tipi Walter

09-18-2009, 12:26

I can do up to 5 days, 4 nights right around 26 lbs, assuming water is not 10 miles between sources.

I can cut my weight even futher if my 17 year old comes along :D

I took my girlfriend out last year and my pack weight went up 30%:D(Had her tent and her water and her food).

It's not about weight. It's about how much one goes past one's own potential. Anyone can build themselves up to carry much more than they perceive as "too heavy". Just as they can build themselves up to run a marathon without injury.

I believe most that suffer chronic pains are because they "toughed" it out and caused irreparable damage, but on the flip side those that go sedentary for long periods of time and then get back into a particular activity are causing severe damage. In the same way as someone that continuously losses and gains weight on a continual basis. The trick is to slowly work into it and maintain a constant strain (physical activity).

And all this crap about low-impact exercises is BS; it’s just a selling strategy for all them stupid ass exercise machines on infomercials. The body needs to be stressed, by running, weightlifting or whatever. And anyone that thinks bicycling is a good low-impact exercise on the knees; they need to go ride through the mountains. Do a back-to-back trip of Skyline drive and Blue Ridge parkway and your knees will be screaming; the worst knee pain I’ve ever experienced was after a 500 mile ride through the mountains. But hiking gave me my worst foot pains.

Backpacking can do some damage here and there, and then again, as you said, the body needs to be stressed, long term stress. What's long term stress? Backpacking for 20 or 30 years is long term stress, it will over time strengthen tendons and ligaments and even increase bone mass. I saw a study comparing the femur of a competitive swimmer with that of an equally sized couch potato and showed the diameter of the swimmer's thigh bone to be markedly larger. I saw something else about how being a sedentary couch potato reduces health and longevity, etc.

Backpackers can suffer from "sport injuries" too, things like pulled and torn muscles and knee twists, etc. On one of my last trips I was humping a heavy load up a very steep hill(Mill Branch trail in Citico wilderness)and stepped over a yellow jacket nest and shot up the trail in a sprint. My right calf muscle popped as I shot forward and dangit it was torn, level 2 on a 3 level injury. I had to sit down for the pain and then slowly walked sideways up the rest of the way in some good old American pain.

Short story, I pulled the rest of the trip of 7 more days and limped a lot but still had a great time. My ankle swelled up but the tear healed and heck, I've been out on another 11 day trip since then with the usual massive pack and I came up with this Awesome Backpacking Advice: GO SLOW.

It's always good to go slow.

lazy river road

09-18-2009, 12:48

Tipi Walter

09-18-2009, 13:18

Wrangler88

09-18-2009, 13:47

ok so im buying a pack for my LT end to end this summer...im im either getting the baltoro 70 or the argon 70...how in the world do you guys get your packs down so light...the pack alone is 5 pds...plus my tent...bag..pad..stove...fuel...etc...any good tips on packing light with out having breaking the bank...from what ive found the lighter it is the more expensive it is

You don't want to 'break the bank'? I'd never don't know packs by name so I looked up the baltoro 70 on REI. $289!!!? That's crazy expensive to me. I bought golite pack for half that and still had a ton of room. And it weighs less than 2 lbs. Depends on how much weight you're carrying though. My 2 packs that I have I paid $30 and $125 for and I love both of them.

There are a lot of good options out there for packs that are a lot cheaper and lighter.

Wrangler88

09-18-2009, 13:48

You don't want to 'break the bank'? I'd never don't know packs by name so I looked up the baltoro 70 on REI. $289!!!? That's crazy expensive to me. I bought golite pack for half that and still had a ton of room. And it weighs less than 2 lbs. Depends on how much weight you're carrying though. My 2 packs that I have I paid $30 and $125 for and I love both of them.

There are a lot of good options out there for packs that are a lot cheaper and lighter.

Should be: "I don't know packs by name ..."

My bad.

Pootz

09-18-2009, 14:08

I think over 45 pounds is to heavy for basic backpacking in winter. Over 35 in summer. There is no need with modern gear to carry more than this. If you cant afford modern gear or just like the gear you have and can handle the weight enjoy yourself.

My pack is seldom over 25lbs and in summer usually under 20lbs

garlic08

09-18-2009, 15:55

When you say 20-24lbs fully loaded, this is an unqualified number as you do not mention in any way the amount of time you're out. Is it for one night? For 15?

Another metric, perhaps more useful for a thru hiker, is how many miles you'll be traveling on that load.

On the AT, I noticed the tendency (for hikers who cared or even knew) to refer to pack weights "fully loaded". Like Tipi asks, what does that mean? Are you seeing delis and ice cream shops every day like in NY, or are you heading into the 100 mile "wilderness". On the Western long trails, there's more of a tendency to talk about "base weight" (no food or water). Just regional differences, I guess. Back East there must be an agreed-upon standard for "fully loaded" that I can only guess at.

Ewker

09-18-2009, 15:55

this may have already been said but I have heard that anything over 25% of your body weight is too much. To me that seems way to heavy. Carry what you feel comfortable with.

garlic08

09-18-2009, 16:09

ok so im buying a pack for my LT end to end this summer...im im either getting the baltoro 70 or the argon 70...how in the world do you guys get your packs down so light...the pack alone is 5 pds...plus my tent...bag..pad..stove...fuel...etc...any good tips on packing light with out having breaking the bank...from what ive found the lighter it is the more expensive it is

Pack from Gossamer Gear, 9 oz and $80 on sale.
Tent from Tarptent (Contrail), 24 oz and $200 MSRP.
Sleeping bag from Marmot (Helium), 32 oz and $160 from Steep'n'Cheap
Pad from Z-rest, cut down to 6 oz, $30 for two
Stove and pot and fuel, don't use 'em.
Multitool, don't use that either.
Everything else pretty much from thrift stores and sales.

Total load about 8 lb, total cost just over $500. It can be done for reasonable cost. This equipment has seen me through early spring and fall blizzards and fairly extreme high country conditions on several thru hikes.

FamilyGuy

09-18-2009, 16:30

Captn

09-19-2009, 08:18

To add what Garlic provides, you may want to do some searching in the article section of backpackinglight.com.

Ironically, I am looking to now sell my 60L pack because I simply can't fill it with my current gear for a week trip.

My personal philosophy was to buy a 3200 cu in pack. When I had a 5000 cu in pack I always ended up filling it up, even if it was just for a weekend.

Cutting my available space forced me to change what else I carried.

When my current gear didn't fit any more, it made me replace my stuff with smaller stuff ... which happened to weigh a lot less.

I replaced my synthetic bag with a 725 fill Montbell (compresses down to nothing), Now i use a golite Ultra 20 quilt.

White gas stove replaced with a small alcohol stove and a 600 ml mug for a pot, I use a Heinie can pot a lot these days.

Micropuff in place of the fleece ... HUGE savings here given the number of fleeces I needed to carry to stay warm.

No room for two extra outfits .... just extra socks and undies, one extra clean shirt sometimes.

Aquamira instead of the filter .... although there are some pretty light filters out there these days.

Poncho instead of my whole rainsuit. (If I'm wearing shorts I'll carry rainpants to sleep/hang around in.)

... Before I knew it I was down 20 lbs.

Also ... I only bought my stuff at end of the season clearance sales .... saved a bundle.

Different people are comfortable with different things, and different weights. My Back went bad on me so I had a lot of motivation to cut.

Don't push your comfort zone all at once ... lightening up is a gradual process and some people a happy at 30 lbs, some at 20, some at 40 ...

Hike your own hike .... that's the real trick.

Wise Old Owl

09-27-2009, 14:47

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn813l.jpg

Tipi Walter

09-27-2009, 15:13

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn813l.jpg

This is all so very relevant! When you topple, you MUST fall backwards, not forwards like above! What's so relevant about it? Well, on my very last 5 day backpacking trip I wrote the following:

DR. COLON FLACCID'S MEAT UNDER-LOAD OVERNIGHT NAPSAC(MELON)
Dr. Colon Flaccid designed a great new backpack called the NICE MELONS(Nylon Individualized Component Evolved Meat Under Load Overnight NapSac), just in time for the winter season and made with the finest weasel gut layered over a base of tuna skin shoulder pads with a laminated silverized nylon(Silny LE)deluxe hipbelt with 4 articulating tusk-resistant pelvic German stockhausen deutsche foam pads. The pack can carry 300lbs in an outboarded meat array or in the standard Melon array with customer evolved metrics.

With 20,000 cubic inches of storage space the Nice Melons system can be tweaked for individual use such as an optional inboard zippered Q-tip pocket and adding 4 extra outside pockets to increase volume by 8,000 cubic inches. Each Melon comes with a custom made pack cover for rain protection made by International Trucking(formed and fitted).

TESTIMOANIALS
Muammar Gadhafi said, "I was able to transport my entire Bedouin Tent in a NICE MELONS pack and even had room for 35 extra pounds of dates."

CAUTION AND WARNING
A tow motor hoist is required to lift the pack onto a backpacker's shoulders. Release hipbelt at the first sign of leg or foot bones breaking and in the event of total crushing, try to topple backwards and never straight down or forwards. Due to towering pack height, hike only treeless trails or trails recently logged. Turn back at all blowdowns and never attempt to crawl under a blowdown with this pack. You will die.

Wise Old Owl

09-27-2009, 15:33

I hope folks take the time to read your post Tipi, damn that is funny.

Grampie

09-28-2009, 10:24

If we are talking about a hike for over a couple of weeks,ie. thru-hike, than a pack weighing around 35lb., is just fine. I did a thru with a pack, after I got all my gear settled, that weighed about that. That would be leaving a town with 2ltr. water and food for 4-5 days.
I did very little pre hike training, for the first month I took a "0" day every five days. I had no physical problems and compleated the AT in 201 days at the age of 66 years old.
I often thought of the folks who hiked the trail years before light weight stuff. Most of them carried around 50 lbs. and still were able to do a thru. Too many potential thru-hikers think that if they buy the latest light weight gear their thru hike will be easy. Well, I hate to say, it might help a little but it sure won't be easy.:-?

Wise Old Owl

09-28-2009, 10:57

Well Smile, I have seen people I admire show up for a week outing that he had done many times before and carry 80lbs! I didn't know backpacks were that big! His son didn't fair much better with what appeared to be 70 lbs. The only thing they left behind was the dutch oven. It was nuts. halfway through the trip he was giving some of the smaller stuff away.

Jester2000

09-28-2009, 12:50

My pack probably weighs between 50 and 60 lbs. when loaded for about 5-6 days of hiking during a thru-hike. It's lighter if I'm out for a weekend or even a week, as there are some things I don't feel compelled to bring with me on a shorter hike. I haven't suffered any injuries as a result of my pack weight, and it hasn't restricted the mileage I can do on a daily basis.

I find that the items I bring with me that make my pack weigh so much keep me happy in camp, and so help keep me on the trail. Plus, I'm never annoying anyone else by asking to borrow their stuff.

What the maximum anyone should carry can only be determined by the individuals, who should listen to their bodies to know if they're carrying too much, and listen to their minds to know if they're carrying too little.

slowandlow

09-28-2009, 14:20

When you say 20-24lbs fully loaded, this is an unqualified number as you do not mention in any way the amount of time you're out. Is it for one night? For 15?

This would be 3-4 nights out, my typical time between resupply on the AT.

Sleepy the Arab

09-28-2009, 19:10

65 pounds and I start thinking maybe it's too heavy. But those are rarities (like from Fontana to Hot Springs, or Troutville to Waynesboro).

Looking at other people's max weights though and I feel alternatively mean to myself and macho.