View Full Version : Emergency Bivy as a shelter
Hey all,
Has anyone hiked the AT (or know of someone who has) with the Adventure Medical Emergency Bivy?
In an effort to go lighter, I was considering carrying this in place of maybe a traditional tent or bivy on some sections of the AT next year, but I come to y'all for advice. I see the pros being that it is light, saves space in my pack and the cons being that it may not be as durable as a regular bivy/tent, it may not as work as well (ie keep you dry), and bugs may have better access to you vs. having a full 1 person tent.
I was wondering if y'all had any opinions on it. Thanks!
- Greg
skinewmexico
09-23-2009, 14:34
You'll probably be soaked in condensation too, since it's not breathable. And it would keep you alive in a rainstorm, but you'd be miserable after several hours. I think something like a TiGoat Ptarmigan bivy and a tarp, or a Tarptent (Moment, Contrail) would be much more workable, and livable options.
The 7oz version is tougher than the 3.2 oz version, but I would not take either as an only shelter.
What do you do when it rains for a week straight.
That is unless you are one of those super hard core guys and dont mind living in a debris shelter if it gets rough.
If you are going to put a sleeping bag inside it, It does not breath so....
I think a better option would be a cuben fiber half tarp, with a regular or a tyvek bivy with a cuben floor and a polycro ground cloth.
A half tarp should be about 2-3 oz and at least you could stick your head out and maybe sit up while raining.
A tyvek bivy with a cuben tub would weigh about 6 oz or less. I think mld makes a SUL bivy too but not tyvek.
I forget where I saw a picture of this setup, but it looked extremely light weight.
If you have some $ and want to lose more weight, you should look at Tim Marshalls work at BPL, cuben down quilts. I believe the first one he did, good to 32dF or so weiged 11 oz.
There is a youtube on it.
dreamsoftrails
09-25-2009, 11:53
if you leave early, you could do it. likely you would always have a shelter to stay in. however, no matter when you are out there, you have to be prepared to use whatever you have as shelter on its own. i would reccomend at least a poncho tarp.
if you are planning to fast pack, likely you could just charge on to the next hostel if it came down to it. just depends on what strategies you are willing to resort to.
no matter what, enjoy the hike.
hikingshoes
09-25-2009, 13:06
I was looking at one of those for a cover over my down bag just to keep it dry,but after reading a post on here i think i will now.
Hey all,
Has anyone hiked the AT (or know of someone who has) with the Adventure Medical Emergency Bivy?
In an effort to go lighter, I was considering carrying this in place of maybe a traditional tent or bivy on some sections of the AT next year, but I come to y'all for advice. I see the pros being that it is light, saves space in my pack and the cons being that it may not be as durable as a regular bivy/tent, it may not as work as well (ie keep you dry), and bugs may have better access to you vs. having a full 1 person tent.
I was wondering if y'all had any opinions on it. Thanks!
- Greg
sheepdog
09-25-2009, 13:45
It is nearly impossible to get into a bivy in a rainstorm and keep your sleeping bag dry. If you are out for any time at all a bivy and tarp combo works well together.
hikingshoes
09-25-2009, 13:57
I think i want use it as a cover.sorry,for the reposting.Charles
I was looking at one of those for a cover over my down bag just to keep it dry,but after reading a post on here i think i will now.
Well, it is an "Emergency" shelter after all, not meant to do anything else but keep you alive for a night or two.
As pointed out, they are designed to reflect your own heat back onto you (if that works or not is another debate...) but as a full Vapour Barrier (non breathable) it will soak your sleeping bag with sweat. That could easily be another pound that you carry the next day...
Note that the most common comment about proper bivy bags is "condensation' even with the so called breathable fabrics.
So in my mind , some that think are carrying less weight with a bivy/tarp combo (compared to a light tent) are doing so only the first day or occasionally when they manage to fully dry their sleeping bag...
Franco
Hey all,
Has anyone hiked the AT (or know of someone who has) with the Adventure Medical Emergency Bivy?
In an effort to go lighter, I was considering carrying this in place of maybe a traditional tent or bivy on some sections of the AT next year, but I come to y'all for advice. I see the pros being that it is light, saves space in my pack and the cons being that it may not be as durable as a regular bivy/tent, it may not as work as well (ie keep you dry), and bugs may have better access to you vs. having a full 1 person tent.
I was wondering if y'all had any opinions on it. Thanks!
- Greg
For my money and weight savings the Gossamer Gear "ONE" has it hands down. Plenty of interior room w/ adequate vestibule all at 1 lb 4oz. All that and a snap one minute or less set up. with 47" headroom. I tell ya it's a AT hikers dream come true.
See Ya down the trail
The fireman
For my money, comfort, and weight savings the Gossamer Gear "One" has it hands down. At 1lb 4oz with plenty of floor space & adequate vestibule coupled with 47" headroom , this is an AT hikers dream come true. Try it you'll love it...
See ya down the trail
The Fireman
Wise Old Owl
09-26-2009, 05:20
There was an article in Backpacker on this where they asked ten contributors to spend a week with these things in the woods. Result - ten very cranky writers!
After a bad experience with the boy scout version, a UL tarp is the way to go and leave the EME bivy at home or in my case don't buy one.
Oops - just saw Sheepdogs answer above- What he said.
Toolshed
09-26-2009, 11:19
Ditto on the above. not meant to keep you comfortable and snug, but keep you alive.
having one of these as a sleeping bag cover is probably one of the LAST things you want to do, since all the moisture that you lose each night (probably up to a quart or more) will get trapped and then condense on the cover and soak the sleeping bag instread of flowing through and passing out as vapor. If you truly want to keep your bag dry, you need to have a Vapor Barrier Liner on the inside (they make them like a big sack that you pull up over you before you climb into your sleeping bag) and then a cover for your bag.
I ahve only used VBLs in deep winter below freezing, so I cannot tell you how they perform in warmer weather.
I have used only the OR Bug Bivy, and flopped over on a well drained rise using the bottom on top for rain.
I have the bivy you mention. It is improved. It has velcro closures and opens at the top and at the feet, for ventilation. It does not stuff as small a volume as my OR Bug Bivy, once unpacked.
It will reflect warmth, but you will need to avoid "conductive heat loss" by sleeping in a "first layer" of long johns or as one person here in the forum said, fleece.
If you use a down bag, inside, the down will be soaked in your own sweat, lose it's loft and be cold and heavy. The synthetic bags are better.
However, it is better for any sleeping bag to be in a breathable top bivy, have no-see-um bug netting built-in if only for your face, have a reasonably waterproof bottom and use with a tarp: it is a shelter system frequently used for a reason.
The One looks deluxe to me.
To each his own, I say, but it is difficult to recover from a cold-night.
All,
Thanks for the responses... I think I'll pass on the hike with a emergency bivy idea. I just love the idea of getting lighter and lighter, but I think using this for the primary shelter during a thru will sacrifice more comfort. Best,
- Greg
Like I said above contact Tim Marshall at BPL and have him build you a cuben down quilt.
The first one he made weighed 11 oz, and the guy that owns it had not found the low rating the last I heard. I think he had taken it down to around 32dF. You could probably do a nice summer bag for about 9oz and thats only 2 oz heavier than a med emer bivy II with no insulation. I intend one day to build a welded cuben 2.5 oz climasheild quilt that I can inflate. I am just too busy trying to finish what I have started already.
Basically you could do a setup like, 9 oz mostly waterproof cuben bag, 4 oz blue pad,
6 oz SUL DWR bivy, 9 oz campmor extended poncho/tarp, 3 oz cuben pack, 1 oz ground cloth and you would be at 2#.
Here is a youtube of the quilt Tim buit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g46SUD27nf0
dreamsoftrails
10-10-2009, 00:15
All,
Thanks for the responses... I think I'll pass on the hike with a emergency bivy idea. I just love the idea of getting lighter and lighter, but I think using this for the primary shelter during a thru will sacrifice more comfort. Best,
- Greg
glad we could talk you out of it. hehe
paintplongo
10-19-2009, 13:40
If you're going that light, just buy some silnylon and make yourself a tarp. You can hang them practically anywhere on the AT.
Wise Old Owl
11-06-2009, 19:25
Just picked up this
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___83075
I plan to make some easy to put on & take off Trip Teese & Ground hogs and pitch it in the yard to see how this is going to work and as a dual use poncho I can't beat it. I picked up a used UL bivy that I can sleep underneath. with a 1lbs down bag.
Interesting post :
http://www.adventurealan.com/2-4_index.htm
garlic08
11-06-2009, 21:39
I actually own one (tested it for AMK years ago) and loved it for what it is, an emergency shelter. No way would it suffice as a primary shelter. Good input above and good decision not to use one.
Like I said above contact Tim Marshall at BPL and have him build you a cuben down quilt.
The first one he made weighed 11 oz, and the guy that owns it had not found the low rating the last I heard. I think he had taken it down to around 32dF. You could probably do a nice summer bag for about 9oz and thats only 2 oz heavier than a med emer bivy II with no insulation. I intend one day to build a welded cuben 2.5 oz climasheild quilt that I can inflate. I am just too busy trying to finish what I have started already.
Basically you could do a setup like, 9 oz mostly waterproof cuben bag, 4 oz blue pad,
6 oz SUL DWR bivy, 9 oz campmor extended poncho/tarp, 3 oz cuben pack, 1 oz ground cloth and you would be at 2#.
Here is a youtube of the quilt Tim buit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g46SUD27nf0
That's insane light. Tammons, that's getting down there! Hardcore! And, not for everyone or for all conditions or the most durable! What's the longest anyone has gone with this set-up? Do you actually know ANYONE who has hiked a 1000 miles, never the less 1000's, with this set-up?
3 oz. Cuben pack? What's the volume? I would think a pack with this wt. doesn't have the volume for a thru-hike of the AT! I think Wolf23000 told me some yrs. ago he had a homemade pack weighing less than 8 oz. He was probably the most hardcore thru-hiker, actually bordering on survivalist, I ever met.
3 oz. Cuben pack? What's the volume? I would think a pack with this wt. doesn't have the volume for a thru-hike of the AT!
Zpacks Blast 26 is 2600 cubic inches at 3.9oz before options. That's plenty of volume for low UL or SUL provided your stretches between resupply are seldom more than 4 or 5 days. (I actually believe someone hiking SUL and covering a lot of miles could do the AT with the Blast 18 which is 1800 cubic inches.)
You can trick out a Blast 26 with a winged hipbelt and pockets, and add a couple other features like trecking pole loops and a sternum strap, and still come in less than 7 ounces total.
Joe Valesko (zpacks owner) completed the PCT with a Blast 32 (3200 cubic inches) and from what I've read the PCT has much longer stretches than the AT between resupply....
That's insane light. Tammons, that's getting down there! Hardcore! And, not for everyone or for all conditions or the most durable! What's the longest anyone has gone with this set-up? Do you actually know ANYONE who has hiked a 1000 miles, never the less 1000's, with this set-up?
3 oz. Cuben pack? What's the volume? I would think a pack with this wt. doesn't have the volume for a thru-hike of the AT! I think Wolf23000 told me some yrs. ago he had a homemade pack weighing less than 8 oz. He was probably the most hardcore thru-hiker, actually bordering on survivalist, I ever met.
Teh quilt by Tim is pretty new, so no thru hikes yet. I have no idea how durable it is since it is made from .35 oz cuben, but you would need to be very careful with it. Also not sure it would be that much less durable than a .9 oz momentum quilt.
Actually I think the cuben pack is 4 oz.
Zpacks builds them.
I think he is on a thru hike right now. The 4 oz model is 2600 CI. He uses the heavier cuben, like 1.5 oz I think and its tough material.
There is a guy on BPL that built a pretty nice cuben pack that weighs 1 oz.
Here is a link to Joes site.
http://www.zpacks.com/
From what I remember I think his packs will definately make a thru, but usually trashed. I am sure after an AT thru it would be mostly tape.
Here is Joes PCT '07 5# Gear List.
I think his previous AT thru list was 8#.
http://www.zpacks.com/about/pct_gear.shtml
Sounds like a great business.
Work 6 months and take off hiking for 6 months.
Snowleopard
11-10-2009, 14:34
A light cheap bivy could be made by using plastic for the bottom and a dryducks poncho for the top (breathable and light). I think Bill Fornshell made one like this on backpackinglight.com
The heat shrink plastic storm window kits at hardware stores is durable and very light.
I have the stuff to make one and just haven't gotten around to it. I'm not sure if the 2 sided tape that comes with the storm window kits will stick to the driducks or if you'll have to sew them together. I don't think this will work without a tarp in an extended downpout, but you could probably use it with a minimal tarp. I'll probably join the foot end and one side fully and either leave the other side open to fold over myself, or join half of it.
I dont think the window insul will hold stitches very well. They will probably rip out.
I tried to glue it with mcnett aqua seal which will glue mostly everything including sil nylon. Tough stuff. At any rate it will hold, but eventually will pull away with enough pressure.
I am probably going to end up building a bottom bivy out of cuben one day.
Right now I just finished a pattern for a bivy. Single piece of cloth and you just basically cut fold and glue it. Has a box bottom similar to building a stuff sack with a straight bottom seam and clipping the corners. Has seams down each side. One seam would be left open for a flap for velcro or a zipper.
It would have a hood help up by stadium baloons.
I have not made it yet, but it would take a run of 18-19 feet of tyvek depending on how tall you are. I will use 1.25 oz stuff for the entire thing.
Hey, thanks JohnnyB and Tammons for the replies. For extreme UL(under 15 lbs total) on the AT I agree that a 2600 ci pack would probably be enough cubes for a thru-hike providing for very frequent resupplies and a specialized UL kit.
Thanks for jogging my memory about Zpacks. I met Joe on the PCT in 08. He was making some good headway with trying out new wts. of cuben and construction methods for cuben fiber packs. At that time, IMO, he wasn't all the way there yet. Even with his careful use of cuben fiber packs he was having to deal with popped seams and shredding fabric. He actually had some repairs on his Blast 32 pack that he was doing at the PCT Kickoff. At the time, he struck me as an innovative creative somewhat moody eccentric gear head that was trying to buck the curve by introducing a lesser understood pack fabric and construction methods. However, I have not examined his latest cuben fiber packs. I don't see many on the trail. Are you sure he hiked the whole PCT in one shot? I thought he may have gotten off or skipped some mileage or did the PCT in sections. I also think I recall him telling me further up the trail that he used more than one cuben fiber pack! I hope he has since ironed out any issues. His packs show a great deal of promise for the specialized UL crowd. In any case, IMO, cuben fiber packs are absolutely an UL piece of gear that definitely requires some extra TLC or, at the very least, new ways of thinking about packs. Joe also agreed with that. And, except for specialized uses, .35 cuben is a rather fragile wt of cuben that is simply not durable enough for many thru-hikers to last for an entire thru-hike when its solely used for gear like tarps, sleeping bags, and bivies, IMO. Personally, if I was to attempt a thru-hike(AT, PCT, CDT) with a cuben fiber pack I would definitely have another waiting in the winds as a replacement! May be worth a try though for me!
Hey, thanks JohnnyB and Tammons for the replies. For extreme UL(under 15 lbs total) on the AT I agree that a 2600 ci pack would probably be enough cubes for a thru-hike providing for very frequent resupplies and a specialized UL kit.
Thanks for jogging my memory about Zpacks. I met Joe on the PCT in 08. He was making some good headway with trying out new wts. of cuben and construction methods for cuben fiber packs. At that time, IMO, he wasn't all the way there yet. Even with his careful use of cuben fiber packs he was having to deal with popped seams and shredding fabric. He actually had some repairs on his Blast 32 pack that he was doing at the PCT Kickoff. At the time, he struck me as an innovative creative somewhat moody eccentric gear head that was trying to buck the curve by introducing a lesser understood pack fabric and construction methods. However, I have not examined his latest cuben fiber packs. I don't see many on the trail. Are you sure he hiked the whole PCT in one shot? I thought he may have gotten off or skipped some mileage or did the PCT in sections. I also think I recall him telling me further up the trail that he used more than one cuben fiber pack! I hope he has since ironed out any issues. His packs show a great deal of promise for the specialized UL crowd. In any case, IMO, cuben fiber packs are absolutely an UL piece of gear that definitely requires some extra TLC or, at the very least, new ways of thinking about packs. Joe also agreed with that. And, except for specialized uses, .35 cuben is a rather fragile wt of cuben that is simply not durable enough for many thru-hikers to last for an entire thru-hike when its solely used for gear like tarps, sleeping bags, and bivies, IMO. Personally, if I was to attempt a thru-hike(AT, PCT, CDT) with a cuben fiber pack I would definitely have another waiting in the winds as a replacement! May be worth a try though for me!
From Zpacks website:
'Joe Says:
"I carried a single Blast 26 backpack my entire PCT thru-hike (2,663 miles). I carried a base weight of around 5 lbs (gear list (http://www.zpacks.com/about/pct_gear.shtml)), and generally 12-20 lbs with full food and water.
At one point I carried 35 lbs for an 11 day stretch without re-supply through the High Sierras of California. My shoulders weren't happy about that much weight, but the pack took it like a champ! (Under 20 lbs is a more comfortable weight with frameless packs) By the end of the five month trip the pack was quite a bit frayed and beat up, but still in very usable condition. Not bad for a sub 5 ounce backpack!" '
The PCT thru hike referenced above was in 2007 and the cuben fiber weight of his Blast 26 on that hike was 1.35 oz per yard.
Based on some of your comments, I'm guessing in 2008 he was on the PCT testing some lighter fiber weight cuben for packs, such as 0.6 or 0.35 oz/yard.
The packs and base weights I mentioned in my post were all for the standard Blast line which all use the much more durable and thoroughly tested 1.35 oz/yard cuben.
I'm sure Joe would stop by this thread and clarify but I think he's currently out on a thru hike of the CDT.
Thanks JohnnyB for the update on Joe and the ZPacks. I haven't checked out the ZPacks website in a while so I think it's about time I see what's new. Thanks for the link.
Yes, in 2008 on the PCT, I think he was still tinkering with the fabric wts., construction methods, and finding the right balance between his hike and using cuben fiber packs and finding ways to market his gear. I hope I can contact him about some specifics about using only one ZPack on an entire PCT thru-hike. I thought I remembered him telling me something different in 08. Maybe, I'm wrong.
Anyway, JohhnyB or Tammons, since both of you are showing an interest in Cuben fiber packs, do either of you own cuben fiber packs? If either one of you do, would both of you mind answering some question about them(like I said before I don't get to see many people on the trail using ZPacks for thru-hiking)? Since, this is getting away from the original topic perhaps we could start a new thread about cuben fiber gear/packs or we could discuss it further through PMs.
Yes I own the Zpacks Blast 18 so fire away. But as you said probably best if you start another thread.
I am building a cuben pack.
It started off as a G4 that was partially sil, mostly cuben but I changed it half way through.
As is it will be suspended from an UL alum pack frame, so it basically just a large bag with pockets.
Dirty Harry
11-13-2009, 01:28
I was looking into this guy http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=61 Pretty much relying on shelters, but I cant stand the masquitos at night.
Hi Dogwood, you have me mistaken for someone else. I did the PCT in 2007 and my pack was brand new at the kickoff. I'll also point out that all the packs I make are made with 1.5 oz / sqyd cuben material which is much stronger than the thin stuff you mention.
Joe Valesko
www.zpacks.com (http://www.zpacks.com)
Hey, thanks JohnnyB and Tammons for the replies. For extreme UL(under 15 lbs total) on the AT I agree that a 2600 ci pack would probably be enough cubes for a thru-hike providing for very frequent resupplies and a specialized UL kit.
Thanks for jogging my memory about Zpacks. I met Joe on the PCT in 08. He was making some good headway with trying out new wts. of cuben and construction methods for cuben fiber packs. At that time, IMO, he wasn't all the way there yet. Even with his careful use of cuben fiber packs he was having to deal with popped seams and shredding fabric. He actually had some repairs on his Blast 32 pack that he was doing at the PCT Kickoff. At the time, he struck me as an innovative creative somewhat moody eccentric gear head that was trying to buck the curve by introducing a lesser understood pack fabric and construction methods. However, I have not examined his latest cuben fiber packs. I don't see many on the trail. Are you sure he hiked the whole PCT in one shot? I thought he may have gotten off or skipped some mileage or did the PCT in sections. I also think I recall him telling me further up the trail that he used more than one cuben fiber pack! I hope he has since ironed out any issues. His packs show a great deal of promise for the specialized UL crowd. In any case, IMO, cuben fiber packs are absolutely an UL piece of gear that definitely requires some extra TLC or, at the very least, new ways of thinking about packs. Joe also agreed with that. And, except for specialized uses, .35 cuben is a rather fragile wt of cuben that is simply not durable enough for many thru-hikers to last for an entire thru-hike when its solely used for gear like tarps, sleeping bags, and bivies, IMO. Personally, if I was to attempt a thru-hike(AT, PCT, CDT) with a cuben fiber pack I would definitely have another waiting in the winds as a replacement! May be worth a try though for me!
Joe, thanks for clearing that up.
I had also incorrectly noted in one of my posts that the cuben weight of the Blast line was 1.35oz per yard rather than 1.5oz per yard. I must have had the specs for sil-nylon stuck in my head for some reason. I would edit my post but I can't figure out how.
BTW - congrats on finishing the CDT and the Triple Crown.
John
I know the thread has drifted a bit, but I just read the orginal question and actually did exactly that last summer in Vermont. I hiked with the 7oz emergency bivy and a 1lb tarp as my only means of shelter and sleeping bag. It was towards the end of June and I used it for a three day stretch. No shelters. Personally - I thought it sucked. I mean I survived, but the bivy does not breath at all. Even though the manufactor claims it does. It has a vent on the bottom - but didn't help. I was cold - even with all my clothes on and it being June. After several hours - it felt like I had wet my pants. Every time I moved or turned over - I felt all cold, wet and clammy.
I ended up sucking it up and buying a Lafuma 40 degree bag witch weighed about a 1lb more , but only cost 80 bucks deleivered to my house.
Good for emergencies, but would plan on it.