I just scored a used ULA P-1. This will help a lot in the never ending attempt to get a lighter pack. I have never used a framless pack before and am looking for some good ideas and ways to pack all my gear in a way that will feel the best while hiking. Ex- how to pack gear in a way that keeps everything in place and doesn't make you carry all the weight on your sholders.

If any of you out there have a P-1 what do you think of it?

I am stoked to have the pack and just want to be able to utilize it for what it was made for! Any thoughts are welcomed.

Schnikel

don't have any advice for you on that one... but i see you're from columbus?
i just moved here, can you recommend a camping/ backpacking supply store close to campus? i have no car, and as of now no suitable bike. any tips would be great. good luck, and thanks!

I don't know the old P1, but I do use a Gossamer Gear G5, one of the flimsiest packs ever made (9 oz). Does the P1 have a pocket for the sleeping pad? If not, make a cylinder inside the pack with your pad, pack the sleeping bag in the bottom, then the clothing you don't need during the day (both of these in a large plastic bag if rain is expected), then your shelter, then your food, and clothing you'll use during the day. I don't carry a stove or cook kit, but if I did I'd put it above or below the food, whatever works best depending on how much food you have. If you need to load water inside the pack (try to avoid), use a bladder next to your back above the sleeping bag (another good reason to pack your bag in plastic). This way you shouldn't need to dig into your pack at all during the day. Some keep a small sitting pad in an outside pocket, if that's important to you. Small sundries you can put in outside pockets, or with clothing if you only need them when you camp and they should stay dry.

I'd add that as your pack volume decreases, keep you compression straps pulled tight. That will help stiffen the pack.

The basic idea is that you pack it tight. Put your larger items in and then stuff smaller items and clothing in the voids. Then tighten all the traps. Good to go!

Yeah, keeping it tight is the key. I found that if it's not super tight I get an achy back.

Rather than a circle, I folded my pad in thirds and set it against my back inside. Then packed the rest of my things as described above. I did the circle for a while, but it was kind of hard to do sometimes.

I found that I often had a void behind my back that would give me back pain. I would have to repack if I didn't get things just right or if thing settled and shifted wrong. Then I discovered if I put a stout stick about an inch or inch and a half diameter and 6 inches long cross-wise against my back, using the pad folded in thirds to cushion it, I had no more back pain.

i just moved here, can you recommend a camping/ backpacking supply store close to campus?

Nice to see another C-bus on the site! :welcome

The only store close to OSU campus is Clintonville Outfitters. They are north on High St. just past Giant Eagle on the west side of the street. Small outfitter but great people.

Schnikel

The best backpacking supply stores are online. If you want ultralight gear, anyway.

Ex- how to pack gear in a way that keeps everything in place

I would also suggest getting one or two of the 3 per pack stuff sacks from wally world. Keeps the stuff organized (one for food, one for reg. clothes, one for rain/cold gear, etc.) Then if you do have to dig and retrieve, easy to get out/put back gear.

I don't know the old P1, but I do use a Gossamer Gear G5, one of the flimsiest packs ever made (9 oz). Does the P1 have a pocket for the sleeping pad? If not, make a cylinder inside the pack with your pad, pack the sleeping bag in the bottom, then the clothing you don't need during the day (both of these in a large plastic bag if rain is expected), then your shelter, then your food, and clothing you'll use during the day. I don't carry a stove or cook kit, but if I did I'd put it above or below the food, whatever works best depending on how much food you have. If you need to load water inside the pack (try to avoid), use a bladder next to your back above the sleeping bag (another good reason to pack your bag in plastic). This way you shouldn't need to dig into your pack at all during the day. Some keep a small sitting pad in an outside pocket, if that's important to you. Small sundries you can put in outside pockets, or with clothing if you only need them when you camp and they should stay dry.

That's pretty much the way I pack my G4 backpack. I'm not very fond of that pack because it makes my back run with sweat. I save it for hiking in the fall when it's cool. It's got plenty of room for fleece stuff. Because my gear has gotten so light and compact I can carry it inside my external frame pack during the summer.

As Osprey says about their internal/external frame packs, the extra weight of a good frame gives trail comfort that more than offsets the ounces saved with a frameless pack.

Nuff sed.

Perhaps what is needed is an internal frame made of Spectra tubes filled with high pressure air. :D

Perhaps what is needed is an internal frame made of Spectra tubes filled with high pressure air. :D
Or an airtight pack pressurized with helium.

As Osprey says about their internal/external frame packs, the extra weight of a good frame gives trail comfort that more than offsets the ounces saved with a frameless pack.

That may be true for people who have a hard time figuring out how to pack a framelss pack, but if you are already carrying a frame in the form of a sleeping pad, why carry the extra/useless weight?

The frame of an internal pack really does make the pack feel lighter than a frameless pack when the weight gets around 30lbs, like when you have to carry a lot of water.

The frame of an internal pack really does make the pack feel lighter than a frameless pack when the weight gets around 30lbs, like when you have to carry a lot of water.

I would agree there. I'd vote for a framed pack if you find that you have to carry that much weight often, Maybe even an external framed pack if you hike dry areas,

If your pack weight hovers around 20 lbs fully loaded with food and water, a frameless pack makes sense,

I have taken the P-1 I got out a couple times now, one a couple weeks ago in Dec. The total weight was around 23# with food,water, and winter gear. The weight felt good and was distributed well I thought. I folded my thermorest against my back and felt as though it gave the needed support.
I know there are litghtweight framed packs, some close to the weight of the P-1, right around 2#, but for the price I got this at it could not be beat!
If I were to take this pack on an extended trip I believe I would need to cut some weight. IMHO 20# is all I would want to carry with this pack for trips lasting one week or more.
Schnikel

There are different ways to load the pack to aid in weight distribution, however, a frameless pack is a frameless pack - most of the weight will be on your shoulders. A frameless pack cannot carry weight like a standard, internal frame pack can, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Whether or not this is a good or bad thing is largely dependent on yourself, for me...I would not dream of carrying a frameless pack unless my TOTAL weight was under 20lbs, I would much rather carry 23-25lbs on my hips then 21-22 on my shoulders.

Maybe a belt pack that supports the frameless pack would allow you to carry more?

I did that, years ago, my "first aid" and minimum essentials inside. But it could carry anything you like that has bulk, and so, supports the frameless pack.

There are a number of different sizes and shapes.

I will look then up, when I get back later.

I have done this, with success, when I had rucksacks having no "hip belt".

Kelty (http://www.campmor.com/kelty-hawkeye-fanny-pack.shtml?source=CI&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=20-37927855-2), North Face (http://www.nextag.com/North-Face-Sport-Hiker-534310158/prices-html?nxtg=a5090a1c0515-DA6DC07327D4DDD3), Lowe (http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/311,2162A_Lowe-Alpine-Peak-Runner-Lumbar-Pack-.html), Outdoor Products (http://www.campmor.com/outdoor-products-cascade-hydration-fanny-pack.shtml?source=CI&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=22-38846120-2), and many more shapes and sizes and features.

Maybe a belt pack that supports the frameless pack would allow you to carry more?...

Frameless packs work best for UL. If you need to carry more than 20# you probably need a framed pack.

I have a ray-way pack. I always put my POE inflatable( one of the few non ul luxuries I carry) in first and arrange it to rest on my lower back. I place all the hard things away from my back, and stuff clothes and my net tent in a way that keeps the hard things away from my back. I keep my clothes and net tent in oversized stuff sacks so they fill voids not create them. That is a trick I learned here on WB.

My tarp is carried in a oversized sack and placed in an outside pocket. This allows me to be able to set up/strike camp in the rain.

I have to put my quilt in last due to the pack design i have found this works best. This is a minor hassle, but one I am willing to live with in order to keep my pack weight down.

I just got my new Ohm two days ago. Im still learning what works best for packing. I cant decide to use the stuff sack for my wm bag or just throw it in the bottom of my pack liner. Help me out folks

Throw it in the bottom without the stuff sack.

Agreed, no stuff sack. One advantage of that is only compressing the bag as much as is needed for that day. If you're low on food and you're wearing most of your clothes, you can pack the bag with more loft. It fills the pack and rides on your back better, too.

Throw it in the bottom without the stuff sack.
On the wet AT, you had better keep your bag as dry as you can. I use a plastic garbage bag, placed in the bottom of my pack into which I stuff my sleeping bag and sleeping clothes (and a clean pair or two of socks). Then I squeeze as much air as I can out of the bag, twist the neck a number of times to keep the bag from sucking air back in, and then I tuck it between the bag itself and my pack's inner surface. I do the same with my "warm up" clothes - for breaks during the day.

I agree on the bag thing, however, another way this can be accomplished is to pack your sleeping bag in an oversized stuff sack, one that doesn't roll down. This way it can take up more space when needed, to flattened out and shaped to the bottom of your pack when needed, but it's also protected from the elements.

Packing everything in small, tight, cylinders doesn't really work all that well with packs, utilizing corner space and folding things rectangular will give you a much more efficients shapes to work with.

Can someone teach me how to spell please???

Thanks folks. I will try without the stuff sack. Most of my gear is going into a sil nylon pack liner so I don't think I'm going to worry about a larger stuff sack or trash bag. Thanks again. What's the sayin, No rain, no Maine. Thanks again.

Most of my gear is going into a sil nylon pack liner so I don't think I'm going to worry about a larger stuff sack or trash bag.

I wouldn't recommend relying on silnylon alone for protection from water. Silnylon will leak with pressure, like where the pack is pushing against your back. A trash compactor bag or a contractor's garbage bag is a wise addition of an ounce or two. A large plastic bag can also double as extra ground protection in really wet campsites, or even as part of an emergency shelter. It's a good thing to have.

I use the GoLite Jam2 and usually pack my items on two sides vertically so as to channel my spine in the center. That and keeping the packweight under 25 pounds really helps.

A trash compactor bag or a contractor's garbage bag is a wise addition of an ounce or two.

Have to agree here. For x-mas I got some of those huge ziplock bags, like 20 gallon bags, They fit awesome in the P-1, and they are 100% water proof. I have placed that in the pack lining it, and have just thrown everything into the oversized zip lock and push out all the air and sealed it shut.

This makes getting into the bag to grab stuff a little more difficult, but worth it IMHO.
Schnikel

Have to agree here. For x-mas I got some of those huge ziplock bags, like 20 gallon bags, They fit awesome in the P-1, and they are 100% water proof. I have placed that in the pack lining it, and have just thrown everything into the oversized zip lock and push out all the air and sealed it shut.

This makes getting into the bag to grab stuff a little more difficult, but worth it IMHO.
Schnikel

In addition to the large bag, I use a gallon ziplock for stuff I might need during the day and keep it at the top of the pack--hat and gloves, extra shirt layer.

I'll add that I only use the plastic when it's actually raining. Otherwise I like letting my stuff breathe as much as it can, even in the pack. I also usually lay stuff out to air and get some UV on longer breaks. It's amazing how a good dose of sunlight cuts the stink in the sleeping bag. (I hear that's good for questionable water, too, if you have a transparent bottle.)

Not that I'm going to ever get a frameles pack,
BUT...

In the 70s the Jensen was the first successful frameless pack on the market. It had two vertical compartments on top of a bottom horizontal sleeping bag compartment. You had to fill the vertical "tubes" tightly to get the necesary support to put the load on the hips. Remember, this was in the days before UL (but in the days of Stephenson's LW gear)

That system needs to be revisited WITH a cc sleeping pad compartment against the back. Perhaps a "shoelace" compression system on each of the vertical tubes would properly compress a partial load. No? :rolleyes:

Eric

Rivendell Mountain Works. Jensen pack.
I'll post a video in a couple of weeks.

Not that I'm going to ever get a frameles pack,
BUT...

In the 70s the Jensen was the first successful frameless pack on the market. It had two vertical compartments on top of a bottom horizontal sleeping bag compartment. You had to fill the vertical "tubes" tightly to get the necesary support to put the load on the hips. Remember, this was in the days before UL (but in the days of Stephenson's LW gear)

That system needs to be revisited WITH a cc sleeping pad compartment against the back. Perhaps a "shoelace" compression system on each of the vertical tubes would properly compress a partial load. No? :rolleyes:

Eric
These guys are alive and well.
http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/index.html

I wish they had better pictures of the packs on the site. All the pictures are tiny and whenever the picture is good enough to see the pack, they only show the strap side, not the pack side.

Can someone teach me how to spell please???
It looks as though you spelled "please" just fine.:)

If I have a soft backpack that sits directly on my back, I always use a pack liner for my sleeping bag and any down product. This is because perspiration goes right thru the pack cloth.

If the soft back has a stand off for air circulation, or some sort of ccf pad incorporated in the design of the pack, this is not critical.