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lostjohn
08-15-2004, 00:36
This stuff sounds good, but does it work. I'm talking about the permethrin that you apply to your own clothes. There is some on the market that is supposed to last 2 washings and 2 weeks and the same company has some (for about the same price) that is supposed to last 6 washings and 6 weeks.

thanks.

Connie
08-15-2004, 01:41
I think permathin used in BuzzOff clothing and other brand names, and sold to the public, is a bad thing: permathin kills bees instantly !

I was on a horse, the owner had sprayed with a permathin product for horses.

The horseflys would bite out a big bite. The horse would bleed.

The fly might get woozy and drop over, finally.

But a bee ..it seemed like a "whiff" of permathin knocked 'em right out of the air !

Montana bees are used for crops all over the country.

Practically everyone stopped using permathin here !

orangebug
08-15-2004, 07:14
It is good, in that it is effective and safe for humans. It is applied to clothing as enzymes in skin will degrade it quickly.

Given that, how well does it serve to avoid bug bites? The US Army and others think it does, even though other skin may be exposed. I prefer DEET, but permathrine makes some sense as a weight saver - placing a resupply in a bounce box and retreating every month or two.

Bill...

Mr. Clean
08-15-2004, 07:35
Don't know how well it works on bugs, but it makes me itch.

prozac
08-15-2004, 09:24
I like to double down and use Permathin and Deet. Permathin is supposedly safer to use and I periodically will take my clothes and spray them down and then let them sit in a plastic bag over night. The manufacturer claims this will give you 100% coverage on all your clothes and it will last longer. Deet to me is alittle bit scarier and I only like to use it sparingly when I'm hiking in weeds or brush. So far I've experienced no real tick problems but maybe I've just been lucky.

frankcornbread
08-15-2004, 11:46
Not familiar w/ Permethrin, very familiar w/ DEET. DEET works well for me, but as of late I have learned of it's degrading activity on waterproof/breatheable fabric and subsequently discontinued use. DEET on the skin will transfer to clothing and breakdown the waterproof coating. Some coatings, I should add, not all. This from fly fishing, Simms waders are not affected but Patagonia waders are. DEET also melts lacquer on guide wraps and vinyl on most anything. Like car seats. So I just decided to quit using it. Anything that will dissolve a car seat is not welcome as a skin care product. This season I have been using Natrapel Plus. Works OK. Not as foolproof as good old Cutters, but good enough. Seems safer for long term use because of natural ingredients. Definitely safer for my waders and rainwear. It is somewhat heavier, though and a little slow to dry. Has a citronella fragrance which reminds me of camping out as a kid. Treasure the memories, still don't much care for the smell.
FC

SGT Rock
08-15-2004, 12:39
Permethrin works, but it is only made for clothing. It would work on the skin, but it won;t stick to human skin and only lasts a few minutes if applied that way. I imagine it worked on horses for the same reason that it works on cloth. DEET is not ment to poison insects, only to mask CO2. It doesn't work so well on clothing for the simple fact that clothing doesn't put out CO2 anyway, and the other fact that most clothing we use these days are synthetics and DEET breaks down the synthetics. The Army (and I think all the other services since we generally use the same supplier) are now starting to have just about all field uniforms and some field equipment come with an initial coating of Permethrin already on. General guidance for soldiers is to use DEET only on explosed skin and away from the eyes or mouth.

SargeAT
08-30-2004, 08:32
Well the fact that it causes vinyl and synthetic materials to melt is no real cause for alarm. They decompose in a way in which our bodies can handle without any poisons being metabolized.

Toolshed
08-30-2004, 12:09
Right on Sgt Rock.

I spent 20+ years in the pest control industry. SOme history. Permethrin is the synthetic verison of Pyrethrin - It is in the Pyrethroids family.

Pyrethrin is a natural insecticides derived from chrysanthemums (I think Africa a a mina supplier of the flowers).
The flowers are dried and the oils are extracted. We used pyrethrins specifically for cockroach and flie controls, thought there are many other target species per label.

Natural pyrethrins are contact poisons which quickly penetrate the
nerve system of the insect - We used Pyrethrins as a flushing agent - It offers a quick knockdown - However, there is no residaul effect. We then followed up with applications of residual pesticides.

Permethrin on the other hand offers goos residual action on inert surfaces (AS the Sgt said, not on skin). Keep in mind that Permethrin is an insecticide that kills on contact, whereas Deet only interrupts the mechanism that allows insects to detect and target CO2.
Cheers
Rick

sloetoe
08-30-2004, 18:55
Did a 6 week trip this summer, starting on the Canadian border ~July 4th. The skeeters were *smeared*, not swatted, and before your hand hit your other wrist, they were already hitting your elbow again. And drilling STRAIGHT THROUGH the DEET.

In resolving some gear issues, I bought my kids some ExOfficio BUGOFF zip-off pants with the woven-in Permithrin.

Worked wonders. In the next 4 weeks, there was no rash (no undies, either), and not a single insect, on the kids pants. Hundreds of miles, a healthy amount of rain (some every day for 3/4s of the time), and a couple of laundry washings -- and skeeters/black files right to the last day.

$50.00 a pop for KIDS [!] zip-off pants. Money well spent.
Sloetoe

attroll
08-30-2004, 23:55
Did a 6 week trip this summer, starting on the Canadian border ~July 4th. The skeeters were *smeared*, not swatted, and before your hand hit your other wrist, they were already hitting your elbow again. And drilling STRAIGHT THROUGH the DEET.

In resolving some gear issues, I bought my kids some ExOfficio BUGOFF zip-off pants with the woven-in Permithrin.

Worked wonders. In the next 4 weeks, there was no rash (no undies, either), and not a single insect, on the kids pants. Hundreds of miles, a healthy amount of rain (some every day for 3/4s of the time), and a couple of laundry washings -- and skeeters/black files right to the last day.

$50.00 a pop for KIDS [!] zip-off pants. Money well spent.
Sloetoe
Where would one look to find this product?

gravityman
08-31-2004, 10:30
Where would one look to find this product?

You can find a spray-on can of permithrin at most outdoor stores. We bought a can at EMS before we hit the long trail. It doesn't cover as much material as it claims. Also no so sure how much it really helped, but we were never bothered by the bugs the whole time (July 24th-August 12th).

Gravity Man

tlbj6142
08-31-2004, 10:42
Ortho also makes a concentrate 2.5% permithrin to kill ants(?). Just add 1.5 parts water to 1 part Ortho and you'll end up with a 0.75% solution (if I did my math right). The spray on stuff is 0.8%.

I've heard that some folks mix up a batch in a resealable bucket (old detergent?, 5 gallon bucket, etc.), dunk their clothing, tent, pack, etc. in the solution. Wring out the item and let it dry. Seal up the bucket and saving for later.

The ExOfficio stuff is just pre-treated. I don't think the end results would be different if you treated your existing gear or bought new ExOfficio stuff.

gravityman
08-31-2004, 10:53
Ortho also makes a concentrate 2.5% permithrin to kill ants(?). Just add 1.5 parts water to 1 part Ortho and you'll end up with a 0.75% solution (if I did my math right). The spray on stuff is 0.8%.

I've heard that some folks mix up a batch in a resealable bucket (old detergent?, 5 gallon bucket, etc.), dunk their clothing, tent, pack, etc. in the solution. Wring out the item and let it dry. Seal up the bucket and saving for later.

The ExOfficio stuff is just pre-treated. I don't think the end results would be different if you treated your existing gear or bought new ExOfficio stuff.

I've always wondered about this. I assume that the spray on stuff is chemically altered to bind with the clothing, and the ortho stuff isn't. But I might be giving the manufacturer too much credit. It only there was a good way to test it...

Gravity Man

Toolshed
08-31-2004, 10:54
TLBJ
You are speaking of a water soluble product, that, if it does not include an emulsifier is probably a wettable powder which will not be absorbed by clothing, but sit on the fibers and end up falling (or being brushed off) or else wash off with sweat or rain.

If it includes an emulsifier, (a surfactant which reduces surface tension of water and allows the oil based concentrate to dilute in water) then you will be OK. The way to tell is to look at the label - It will likely say Permithrin WP (wettable powder) or Permithrin EC (emulsifiable concentrate)

I think if anything, the EC would work much better once it is absorbed into the fibers and dries.

tlbj6142
08-31-2004, 11:09
Well there you go. The bug guy set us straight. Looks like the ortho trick might not work so well. YMMV.

Connie
04-28-2008, 22:55
I was going thru old threads and I ran across this one.

I hope people realize bees are important, by now.

Why use Permethin, affecting the nervous system, when Permethin kills bees? I believe there are other environmental factors, but Permethin is "instant". Montana bees are shipped all over the united states, and elsewhere, to pollinate crops.

There is something else, repelling mosquitos, even more effective.

I was at a solar store in Ukiah, California. I saw a "keyshain" mosquito repellant device. I was told the device emits the sound made by a dragonfly. I wore this device at a "retreat" at North Lake Tahoe, on a ridge above Carnelian Bay. There were hords of mosquitos.

Everyone was bit, except me and people standing near me. Everyone noticed. I was asked, "Why do the mosquitos not bite you? Why do the mosquitos stay away from you"?

I said, "I was told this device emits the sound made by a dragonfly".

I guess, dragonflys eat mosquitos. But so do bats.

Anyway, so have a "keychain" device that emits the sound.

Bob S
04-28-2008, 23:14
I’m sold on it

I have been using it for a few years, it’s great stuff and will give you protection that is 100% on your clothes. Add some DEET for exposed skin and bugs won’t bite you at all.

Fly’s still zoomed around me when I was up in Bug-central (Michigan’s UP in July) but no bites from them or mosquitoes.

Who cares if Permethrin kills bees? I don’t plan on spraying any bees with it so it’s a non issue as bees don’t try to suck my blood or bite me. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone.

take-a-knee
04-29-2008, 00:01
Iím sold on it

I have been using it for a few years, itís great stuff and will give you protection that is 100% on your clothes. Add some DEET for exposed skin and bugs wonít bite you at all.

Flyís still zoomed around me when I was up in Bug-central (Michiganís UP in July) but no bites from them or mosquitoes.

Who cares if Permethrin kills bees? I donít plan on spraying any bees with it so itís a non issue as bees donít try to suck my blood or bite me. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone.

Well, you should care about the bees Bob, cause they serve to keep us all alive and fed basically(remember pollination?). Don't use permethrin indiscriminantly around the house, and mainly don't spray it near anything that blooms to protect the bees. But by all means use it on your outdoor clothing because it works as advertised.

Bob S
04-29-2008, 00:09
Well, you should care about the bees Bob, cause they serve to keep us all alive and fed basically(remember pollination?). Don't use permethrin indiscriminantly around the house, and mainly don't spray it near anything that blooms to protect the bees. But by all means use it on your outdoor clothing because it works as advertised.
My point was not about it killing bees, it was about having it on your clothes and that bees donít attack me when Iím out camping like mosquitoes & flyís do, so again itís a non-issue as it relates to how you apply it to your clothing.

How does my spraying it on my clothes have an effect on bees? It doesnít

orangebug
04-29-2008, 04:40
There is also no evidence (credible evidence at least) of permethrin actually causing neurological injury in humans. Human skin deactivates the molecule, which is why it must be sprayed on clothing to have any benefit.

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 05:53
Just something to think about in case anyone owns cats or rabbits and is thinking about using permethrin. Talk to your vet first, it's toxic to these pets and not recommended for use even if they're only exposed to it dried on clothing.

Also, it's toxic to fish so if you're using it, it's probably a good idea to stay out of water sources.

kayak karl
04-29-2008, 07:10
Just something to think about in case anyone owns cats or rabbits and is thinking about using permethrin. Talk to your vet first, it's toxic to these pets and not recommended for use even if they're only exposed to it dried on clothing.

Also, it's toxic to fish so if you're using it, it's probably a good idea to stay out of water sources.
i talked to my vet. he agrees. he said if you are exposed to ANY chemicals, garden, deet or work, do not bring clothes in house. dont leave them where pets can sleep on them. this made me think. i come home from work or hiking and throw my hat on bed and Ash (cat) is laying on it in no time.
thank for you post. made me think.:-?
im only using permethrin on my thru. so i will definitly keep that stuff away from them:)

The Cheat
04-29-2008, 11:54
i talked to my vet. he agrees. he said if you are exposed to ANY chemicals, garden, deet or work, do not bring clothes in house. dont leave them where pets can sleep on them. this made me think. i come home from work or hiking and throw my hat on bed and Ash (cat) is laying on it in no time.
thank for you post. made me think.:-?
im only using permethrin on my thru. so i will definitly keep that stuff away from them:)

Is it toxic to cats or does it just not work on cats? Permethrin is what is used in the once-a-month tick stuff for dogs. It works on dog skin because they don't metabolize it like we do (I think because they sweat different). It won't work on our skin for more than a few minutes (like Sgt. Rock said). Cat skin is probably alot more like ours than dogs.

Personally, I like Permethrin on my clothes, it works great. We live in tick central and I and my family haven't gotten Lyme disease since using it along with bug sparay on exposed skin. Permethrin on clothing and deet on exposed skin is ideal. I hate deet so I use Picardin. Almost as good, doesn't burn the skin, stinks less.

I understand about the bees, but this is a contact killer so they should not be affected.

Connie
04-29-2008, 12:26
I have MiniGaiters, Trail Racer to protect my ankles from the vicious biting flys up on Marias Pass. I have a Bug-Me-Not Head Net. I can put on gloves.

I have the OR bug bivy.

I don't use any thing else, except if mosquitos are interested in me (not always, my body pH is alkaline, not acid) I have the little keychain solar-powered mosquito repellant dragonfly sound emitter for $2.99.

Here is one for $2.71 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12169 0.81 oz.

Here is another model http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/sopoanguwile.html and here is another http://sports-imports.stores.yahoo.net/morewestasli.html the first one listed is claimed to work for 15'.

Connie
04-29-2008, 12:31
I forgot to say, I saw a bee drop dead out of the air, apparently only getting a "whiff" of the Permethin spray on the horse's mane put there by the owner. I had taken a horse and pack horse into the Bob Marshall Wilderness for a week-10 days. I paid to use the horses, the outfit including panniers.

The same day, a fly bit a chunk out of that horse's mane and only staggered a bit, then flew off. Maybe that fly died later, but he looked strong.

Wags
04-29-2008, 12:38
i think i read somewhere mosquitoes enjoy the color yellow, so i dont' wear it when i'm out in the woods :D

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 13:27
Is it toxic to cats or does it just not work on cats? Permethrin is what is used in the once-a-month tick stuff for dogs.

Yes, it is toxic to cats, rabbits, and fish. You are correct about Permethrin being used in topical dog products. My vet won't allow me to use it on my dog though b/c I do have cats. Even if I keep them separated for a time period following application, my vet said it's still too dangerous. So I use a product that is less effective against ticks.

Were it not for that, I would use Permethrin to treat my hiking clothes and bandannas for my dog.

I do wonder though how much Permethrin it takes to be an issue if pants treated with it take a swim or stroll through a water source while on the trail. Probably not much risk, but considering presence of fish and rabbits in/around water sources, it could be a concern.

take-a-knee
04-29-2008, 13:36
Yes, it is toxic to cats, rabbits, and fish. You are correct about Permethrin being used in topical dog products. My vet won't allow me to use it on my dog though b/c I do have cats. Even if I keep them separated for a time period following application, my vet said it's still too dangerous. So I use a product that is less effective against ticks.

Were it not for that, I would use Permethrin to treat my hiking clothes and bandannas for my dog.

I do wonder though how much Permethrin it takes to be an issue if pants treated with it take a swim or stroll through a water source while on the trail. Probably not much risk, but considering presence of fish and rabbits in/around water sources, it could be a concern.

Lyme disease and other tick-borne fevers are also a concern, personally, I'll take my chances with permethrin.

KnowledgeEngine
04-29-2008, 13:47
Well Bob, you never know...
Just imagine if you had freshly soaked your hiking clothes in permethin. Now do you remember the movie Bee Movie with Jerry Seinfield. The end premise is one bee, only one particular bee could save the world's bee population, and along with it the human race. Now imagine you are on the AT in that bee's path, and wearing a fake sunflower pinned on your left shirt pocket. The bee lands on the sunflower and dies from the poision. How can you not see how your desire to not be eaten alive is the end of all humanity as we know it? Surely this permethin must be alluded to in the 2012 prophecies somewhere....

Just kidding.

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 14:34
Lyme disease and other tick-borne fevers are also a concern, personally, I'll take my chances with permethrin.

I won't do that at the risk of the animals living in my care. Someday after these cats have passed on, I won't be getting more and I will then be able to use Permethrin, but in the meantime, I do pretty well without it.

wahoo
04-29-2008, 15:27
I'm not a big fan of Permethrin. I really don't like using Deet either, but you've got to keep ticks and skeeters off somehow. Some insect contact is part of the experience of the trail..! Wear running shorts with the liner under your pants to keep ticks out of those "special places"!

swede
04-29-2008, 16:51
When I was managing a sporting goods store in the 90's, we couldn't keep this on the shelf. It's funny; Monday visits from the NC Forestry Service would clean me out. Double my inventory, double my sales. I'm a believer, I keep a can in my camping kit and treat my clothes, pack and hammock before going out. I have had no memorable failures due to the chemical on fabric, and would much rather replace any of it as opposed to getting Lyme, equine encephalitis, or some other nasty. Hint; the can is green and the name ends in -none.

orangebug
04-29-2008, 16:55
Heck, you can get a few bottles of Kwell and do the same thing - usually cheaper.

I'd prefer to use permethrin per instructions, help my animals keep a living caretaker and understand that weighing risks and benefits often entails shades of gray.

Bob S
04-29-2008, 17:58
I won't do that at the risk of the animals living in my care. Someday after these cats have passed on, I won't be getting more and I will then be able to use Permethrin, but in the meantime, I do pretty well without it.


Why not use it and keep your hiking clothes away from your pets?

Just as parents of young kids keep dangerous things out of their reach, you can do this for your pets.

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 19:31
Why not use it and keep your hiking clothes away from your pets?

Just as parents of young kids keep dangerous things out of their reach, you can do this for your pets.

Not according to my vet. Anything they say is highly toxic to my cats, won't be coming in the house in any form.

Bob S
04-29-2008, 20:07
Not according to my vet, What? Your vet thinks that you can’t keep your hiking clothes away from your pets?


I do have a dog in the house and I’m not worried about her with Permethrin at all. I keep stuff like it away from the dog. It’s not really hard to keep a set of clothes away from a pet. In fact it’s incredibly easy to do.

orangebug
04-29-2008, 20:10
which is cool if you have decided cat's health is more important than your's. No one will force you to do anything different.

Tinker
04-29-2008, 20:42
Permethrin on clothing works.

Deet on skin works. You don't need concentrations higher than 30%. Most of what I use is in the area of 23%. A mesh shirt sprayed with Permethrin and allowed to dry for at leas 2 hours is probably the best warm weather insect protection I've tried. Ventilation and bug-proofness don't have to be mutually exclusive. I have an old (no longer made) Outdoor Research bug "jacket (shirt really) with nylon shoulders coming over the upper body just a bit. The rest is mesh. Mesh sucks under shoulder straps.

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 21:03
I do have a dog in the house and Iím not worried about her with Permethrin at all. I keep stuff like it away from the dog. Itís not really hard to keep a set of clothes away from a pet. In fact itís incredibly easy to do.

Well, good that you are not worried about your dog with Permethrin. Dogs are not at risk. Reread my posts, you'll see that I mentioned there is a topical product for dogs that contains Permethrin. Not going to name drop, if you want the product, PM.


which is cool if you have decided cat's health is more important than your's. No one will force you to do anything different.

Geesh, people don't realize that there are products out there other than Permethrin or what? I'm not putting myself at any more risk because I choose not to use it in order not to expose my cats to it.

Is it easy to keep clothing away from pets? Yes. Is it easy to keep products away from pets? Yes. Do people other than myself live in and enter my home? Yes. Do accidents happen? Yes. Sorry, I'm not going to risk it.

I only posted about it's toxicity so anyone who DOES care about their animals has the chance to make an informed decision. There's no warning on the labels of the Permethrin bottles I've read. No warning on the labels of Ex Officio clothing, etc... Not trying to dissuade anyone from using it, but a little knowledge goes a long way and I for one as a pet owner appreciate that someone took the time to inform me.

I also appreciate knowing that in the future, should I purchase Ex Officio clothing or should I treat my own with Permethrin, etc... I should be very careful around water sources that contain fish, or could be used by rabbits if I need to reapply on the trail.

Tinker
04-29-2008, 21:11
Some of the topical drops applied to pets for insect control, often on the back of the neck contain a chemical called "perethrin". I used to work at a pet store, and read the labels more carefully than most customers. I don't know what the difference, if any, there is between Permethrin and "perethrin". I used to consider it a typo, but it may not be. Anyway, whatever it is, it gets absorbed into your pet's blood and lymphatic system and is carried throughout the body to repel insects and ticks for a prescribed period. I'm not inclined to put potentially harmful chemicals on my own body. On pets, with a much shorter lifespan, it has probably been taken into consideration that, if it shortens their lifespan due to the toxic nature of the medication, it probably prevents a much earlier (and painful) death due to contracting Lyme and other diseases, and prevents pets from bringing the little hitchikers into your home and exposing you to those same diseases.

orangebug
04-29-2008, 21:20
There is a reason that there is no label warning on the label for Ex Officio clothing. There is no credible risk. There is a reason there is no label warning to avoid contact with water for treated clothing. There is no credible risk.

You have made a value judgement based on information you have understood from others. I will be glad to share that judgement once evidence demonstrates danger to humans and the environment when permethrin is used per labeled directions. I have not noticed cats scattered about the landscape and yards of neighborhoods where dogs are given permethrin impregnated collars or plastic ampules. I have noticed zero journal articles demonstrating human toxicity to permethrin used per instructions in the past 50 + years of use.

Bees dropping from the sky from permethrin treated horse manes? WOW! :-?

Bob S
04-29-2008, 22:02
Bees dropping from the sky from permethrin treated horse manes? WOW! :-?

I don't buy thet either...

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 22:18
You have made a value judgement based on information you have understood from others. I will be glad to share that judgement once evidence demonstrates danger to humans and the environment when permethrin is used per labeled directions. I have not noticed cats scattered about the landscape and yards of neighborhoods where dogs are given permethrin impregnated collars or plastic ampules. I have noticed zero journal articles demonstrating human toxicity to permethrin used per instructions in the past 50 + years of use.

I never asked you to share that 'value judgment' now, nor later. There are studies out there showing scientific evidence of the toxicity of Permethrin to certain animals, animals that are encountered on the trail as well as in our homes. Take it or leave it, do your own research, make your own informed decision. No one is asking you do to otherwise.

AlwaysHiking
04-29-2008, 22:19
Some of the topical drops applied to pets for insect control, often on the back of the neck contain a chemical called "perethrin". I used to work at a pet store, and read the labels more carefully than most customers. I don't know what the difference, if any, there is between Permethrin and "perethrin". I used to consider it a typo, but it may not be. Anyway, whatever it is, it gets absorbed into your pet's blood and lymphatic system and is carried throughout the body to repel insects and ticks for a prescribed period. I'm not inclined to put potentially harmful chemicals on my own body. On pets, with a much shorter lifespan, it has probably been taken into consideration that, if it shortens their lifespan due to the toxic nature of the medication, it probably prevents a much earlier (and painful) death due to contracting Lyme and other diseases, and prevents pets from bringing the little hitchikers into your home and exposing you to those same diseases.

I don't think the topical drops containing Permethrin are available in store/over the counter. Could be wrong though on that.

Connie
04-29-2008, 23:11
The Bitteroot Mountains in Montana may be the Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever tick capital of the world. I have never had a tick on me.

However, I do not wear shorts. I always wear tight-fitting pants, at least the the ankles. My favorite hiking pants are Pearl Izumi Tokyo tights.

On Marias Pass, famous for biting flys, I wear "Trail Racer" MiniGaiters.

Have a look at my website, at my signature, then make a judgement if I am some idiot making stupid "made-up" comments about seeing a bee drop dead right out of the air, that had no direct contact with the Permethin, only getting a "whiff" of it in-the-air.

I gave an "alternative" how-to that works.

DDT was "approved" for decades. That doesn't make me want to use it.

orangebug
04-30-2008, 06:15
I smell a whiff of something.

LIhikers
04-30-2008, 06:49
Permethrin can be had in liquad form from pet and animals supply places. When my wife and I know we're going to be out in buggy conditions we'll soak our hiking clothes in a solution of the stuff before hand. It seems to work pretty well that way.

Wags
04-30-2008, 09:53
i'm pretty sure permethrin is the active ingredient in frontline and other name-brand flea and tick treatments for dogs

taildragger
04-30-2008, 10:02
I use the stuff on my hunting clothes, will work for a few weeks, and works better than deet (IMHO)

That being said, I rarely wear the stuff while hiking, usually just carry a lil deet if anything at all.

AlwaysHiking
04-30-2008, 10:33
i'm pretty sure permethrin is the active ingredient in frontline and other name-brand flea and tick treatments for dogs

The active ingredient in Frontline is Fipronil and Frontline Plus is Fipronil and (S)-methoprene combined.

Connie
05-01-2008, 08:42
AlwaysHiking.. Is that just a different brand-name or a different "active ingredient"?

orangebug.. I don't make any money off of my website.

AlwaysHiking
05-01-2008, 09:49
AlwaysHiking.. Is that just a different brand-name or a different "active ingredient"?

orangebug.. I don't make any money off of my website.

Different active ingredient.

wahoo
05-01-2008, 10:33
I wonder if I can take a dose of Frontline to keep the bugs off..
One time I got a case of hookworms and got rid of them by taking Ivomec (the livestock dewormer) for a few days. Geez, I'm such a redneck.

Wags
05-01-2008, 10:46
The active ingredient in Frontline is Fipronil and Frontline Plus is Fipronil and (S)-methoprene combined.


it's the same principle as permethin...

and no, don't use frontline on yourself. you'll find yourself lapping your water and sticking your nose places it shouldn't be :D

AlwaysHiking
05-01-2008, 10:49
it's the same principle as permethin...

Hardly, it is a pesticide, true, but it is not toxic to rabbits or cats. So different.

orangebug
05-01-2008, 10:56
I wouldn't recommend Frontline to a human. It just won't work.

Antihelmics usually work pretty similarly by purging and killing adult parasites. That can be hazardous - one of the reasons that bleeding and purging ain't done that often in humans these days.

taildragger
05-01-2008, 11:40
it's the same principle as permethin...

and no, don't use frontline on yourself. you'll find yourself lapping your water and sticking your nose places it shouldn't be :D

What if I already do that?

taildragger
05-01-2008, 11:41
I wonder if I can take a dose of Frontline to keep the bugs off..
One time I got a case of hookworms and got rid of them by taking Ivomec (the livestock dewormer) for a few days. Geez, I'm such a redneck.


I had a friend that used to go to the vet if he ever got hurt working on his ranch, it was amusing, yet very affective :-?

wahoo
05-01-2008, 11:41
Aww, I was just kiddin'. I wouldn't take the Frontline. But I did take the Ivomec. Nasty, but effective. I was desperate.

mudhead
05-01-2008, 16:05
I had a friend that used to go to the vet if he ever got hurt working on his ranch, it was amusing, yet very affective :-?

I have met more than one vet I would let sew me up.

take-a-knee
05-01-2008, 19:52
I have met more than one vet I would let sew me up.

All veterinarians can do surgery, most doctors can barely suture and don't have a clue about anesthesia unless they've done more training after med school. Vets can do their own lab work also, just like SF medics.

Wags
05-02-2008, 01:45
my gal is about to finish her 2nd year of vet school. she tells me quite often that most anatomies b/t animals are very similar. i usually let her diagnose and treat the troubles i get, but her sis in doing her residency so i get her as a 2nd opinion :D