View Full Version : troubled homeless man on trail in PA
The Phoenix
11-03-2009, 23:30
The issue was dealt with, but I wanted to quickly write about it on WB.
When hiking into Duncannon about a week and a half ago me and my buddy Ledfoot stopped to rest at Clark's Ferry so he could address his swelling foot.
There was a man there making a fire and "reading" the Wallstreet Journal. I said hello, and got no response. Ledfoot told him that he had picked a nice camping spot and he stuttered in response "I know, now leave, your bothering me."
Ledfoot and I felt awkward and alarmed and I told him we'd be gone in a few minutes we just needed to rest up. He began muttering at us and anytime we would look his way he would quickly turn away from us after having been staring at us muttering furiously.
He eventually stammered loud enough so I could hear him... "Damn gay men... they are everywhere... you gay guys stay away from me."
At this point half smiling, half scared we stood up walked away and as we got probably 500 yards out of sight called the cops.
The guy was squatting literally 10 yards off the A.T. with old military gear and a mess of litter everywhere. Also the man had what looked to be a .38 cal on him.
The cops we called seemed to be more or less a joke (not trying to offend). They kept trying to push it to another county despite the dispatcher saying that they had the cordinates of where we were and it was their area.
They said they would check the scene out. Of course they never did.
Ledfoot and I got to the Doyle feeling restless about the lack of interest and competence shown by the officers over the phone. We ended up getting in touch with a ranger in the area. The ranger found out the cops basically forgot all about the situation. He went up and took care of it.
The folks at the ATC place in Boiling Springs told me about it but didn't know details...
All I know is with day hikers, and folks who may have tried to help this clearly trouble man it could have turned into something pretty terrible pretty quick.
Wish I knew the final results of all this... but it was disappoint to see cops react like that.
Jack Tarlin
11-03-2009, 23:37
Well, good of you to report it anyway, it was the right thing to do.
And if anyone else finds themselves in a similar position (i.e. non-co-operation from local officials), consider calling the ATC in Harpers Ferry. They will immediately report the problem to the law enforcement officer in charge of the Trail for the Park Service (he's based in Harpers) who will in turn get on the phone and make sure that something is done locally.
take-a-knee
11-04-2009, 00:17
Well, good of you to report it anyway, it was the right thing to do.
And if anyone else finds themselves in a similar position (i.e. non-co-operation from local officials), consider calling the ATC in Harpers Ferry. They will immediately report the problem to the law enforcement officer in charge of the Trail for the Park Service (he's based in Harpers) who will in turn get on the phone and make sure that something is done locally.
Thanks Jack, that is good to know.
The ATC is only open during regular business hours. If you have an emergency another option is to (from the ATC website) "call the Shenandoah National Park 24-hour communications center at 800-732-0911. The communications center will notify the NPS chief ranger for the Appalachian Trail."
njordan2
11-04-2009, 22:03
Pepper spray 'im
Pepper spray 'im
Wouldn't that be a bit of an over-reaction? I think The Phoenix did exactly what he should have done.
Okay, devils advocate here.....
What did this guy do "criminal"? He may have been rather eccentric but he didn't make any threats. Laws that limit inciting or provocative speech, often called fighting words, or offensive expressions are subject to strict scrutiny under our Constitution. I just don't see that in this example and unless he was on Federal Parks land or other restricted area having a non-concealed weapon isn't illegal.
So what's the issue- the cops response?
take-a-knee
11-04-2009, 23:42
Okay, devils advocate here.....
What did this guy do "criminal"? He may have been rather eccentric but he didn't make any threats. Laws that limit inciting or provocative speech, often called fighting words, or offensive expressions are subject to strict scrutiny under our Constitution. I just don't see that in this example and unless he was on Federal Parks land or other restricted area having a non-concealed weapon isn't illegal.
So what's the issue- the cops response?
'How 'bout being a rude, belligerent SOB to a total stranger, with a revolver in your waistband? I'd have told the cops myself, and I'm one of them flag-waving constitutionalists. No body said anything about butt-strokin', pistol-whipping, or water boarding him, just talk to him.
Wise Old Owl
11-05-2009, 00:37
It is so hard to do the right thing, I am glad you tried. Apparently the officers were lacking once again. But that is rare, Good thing it wasn't Miniapolice. They would have tasered him in the neck and dragged him down the trail and he would have to lawyer up.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=minneapolis&hl=en&emb=0&aq=0s&oq=miniapol#hl=en&view=2&emb=0&q=minneapolis+taser+neck+police
Doooglas
11-05-2009, 07:09
The police were busy protecting and serving....probably tazering an 80 y.o. lady for jay walking or maybe just hanging at the gym waiting for their steroid connection to show up.
take-a-knee
11-05-2009, 07:31
The police were busy protecting and serving....probably tazering an 80 y.o. lady for jay walking or maybe just hanging at the gym waiting for their steroid connection to show up.
Maybe the SRT team, Dunkin' Donut is a more typical hangout for most. I don't see to many fit looking cops.
neighbor dave
11-05-2009, 08:36
"miniapolice", that's funny:D
Sounds like you were bothering somebody, he told you so and that made you upset inside so you called the cops on him because "he had what looked to be a .38 cal on him."
Right.
It may be worth mentioning that both sides of the Clarks Ferry Bridge are in Reed Township, Dauphin County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Township,_Dauphin_County,_Pennsylvania) (population 182), a municipality obviously lacking in resources to do good or ill. Also for those not familiar with PA, there is no such thing as county police or a sheriff's road patrol, in most of PA, Dauphin County included. In such a situation the A.T. ranger is likely the first recourse.
The issue was dealt with, but I wanted to quickly write about it on WB.
When hiking into Duncannon about a week and a half ago me and my buddy Ledfoot stopped to rest at Clark's Ferry so he could address his swelling foot.
There was a man there making a fire and "reading" the Wallstreet Journal. I said hello, and got no response. Ledfoot told him that he had picked a nice camping spot and he stuttered in response "I know, now leave, your bothering me."
Ledfoot and I felt awkward and alarmed and I told him we'd be gone in a few minutes we just needed to rest up. He began muttering at us and anytime we would look his way he would quickly turn away from us after having been staring at us muttering furiously.
He eventually stammered loud enough so I could hear him... "Damn gay men... they are everywhere... you gay guys stay away from me."
At this point half smiling, half scared we stood up walked away and as we got probably 500 yards out of sight called the cops.
The guy was squatting literally 10 yards off the A.T. with old military gear and a mess of litter everywhere. Also the man had what looked to be a .38 cal on him.
The cops we called seemed to be more or less a joke (not trying to offend). They kept trying to push it to another county despite the dispatcher saying that they had the cordinates of where we were and it was their area.
They said they would check the scene out. Of course they never did.
Ledfoot and I got to the Doyle feeling restless about the lack of interest and competence shown by the officers over the phone. We ended up getting in touch with a ranger in the area. The ranger found out the cops basically forgot all about the situation. He went up and took care of it.
The folks at the ATC place in Boiling Springs told me about it but didn't know details...
All I know is with day hikers, and folks who may have tried to help this clearly trouble man it could have turned into something pretty terrible pretty quick.
Wish I knew the final results of all this... but it was disappoint to see cops react like that.
You should hike around downtown Charlotte, with your standards you would have to call the cops every 10 minutes.
'How 'bout being a rude, belligerent SOB to a total stranger, with a revolver in your waistband? I'd have told the cops myself, and I'm one of them flag-waving constitutionalists. No body said anything about butt-strokin', pistol-whipping, or water boarding him, just talk to him.
Talk about what? The weather?
modiyooch
11-05-2009, 09:13
Okay, devils advocate here.....
What did this guy do "criminal"? He may have been rather eccentric but he didn't make any threats. Laws that limit inciting or provocative speech, often called fighting words, or offensive expressions are subject to strict scrutiny under our Constitution. I just don't see that in this example and unless he was on Federal Parks land or other restricted area having a non-concealed weapon isn't illegal.
So what's the issue- the cops response? I think that the OP recognized that the guy wasn't a typical hiker and it raised a red flag. It was reported for the public's caution. I don't remember the facts exactly, but hikers did encountered the bizarre hiker in VA that just didn't seem to fit in. He wore fatigues, hid in the brush etc. He ended up killing on the AT.
Just a side note for clarification: It is correct that ATC administrative offices are closed on weekends and holidays, and we do not answer the phone on weekends.
However, the Harpers Ferry A.T. visitor center and hiker lounge are now open 9 to 5, seven days a week, year round (except Thanksgiving, Christmas Day, and New Year's Day). This doesn't help for reporting incidents, but I wanted to make that distinction for those who might be hiking through Harpers Ferry on a weekend or otherwise wanting to visit ATC. The mid-Atlantic office in Boiling Springs, PA sometimes has volunteers scheduled to provide information for visitors and hikers on weekends, especially in the warmer months.
Laurie P.
ATC
john gault
11-05-2009, 09:37
You should hike around downtown Charlotte, with your standards you would have to call the cops every 10 minutes.
That's not a good analogy. All large cities have crazy-talkin' homeless people that act strange -- everyone has seen them -- not the same thing as having some guy talking crazy with a gun on the trail.
Not saying he's a danger, but I wouldn't set my tent up in vicinity of him.
Sounds like you were bothering somebody, he told you so and that made you upset inside so you called the cops on him because "he had what looked to be a .38 cal on him."
Right.
exactly. ust cause he's not an obviously hiker he shouldn't be out there? you should have left him the hell alone. he wasn't doing anything to you, probably just trying to make it one more day. you did something to him however. just because somebody isn't as fortunate as you and was different than you, he scared you. so you ran and told mommy on him. keep walking, dude. and mind your own business next time.
Pacific Tortuga
11-05-2009, 10:06
All of you are missing it.
A vet, lost his corperate job maybe his family and home reverting to what he knows, setting up camp in the woods. The key line here is he is reading the Wall Street Journal. The Journal isn't any easy, mindless bathroom/privy reader.
With the state of our country, as of now this could be a posibility, or he could be a mental in need of some help just using the WS Journal to help start his fire.
We think the worst, first, be on gaurd but also be open to some compassion. My gut feeling say's there is much more to this story.
Nasty Dog Virus
11-05-2009, 11:11
We ended up getting in touch with a ranger in the area. The ranger found out the cops basically forgot all about the situation. He went up and took care of it.
The folks at the ATC place in Boiling Springs told me about it but didn't know details...
You actually got the Ranger in Boiling Springs to address an issue on the strip of NPS land between PA225 and the Susquehanna River? I'm amazed! I've been trying for years to get them to do something about all the illegal hunting which takes place there with no success. There will be hunters sleeping in the Clarks Ferry Shelter here in a few weeks when deer rifle season starts...
modiyooch
11-05-2009, 11:34
I think that a distinction needs to be made. Did he scare the OP because he was homeless; or did he scare the OP because of erractic, possible mental behavior? The homeless that I encounter don't typically have guns.
The Phoenix
11-05-2009, 14:55
hahaha... listen to anyone saying that crap about having done the wrong thing... you can go to bed at the Doyle's after that run in and do nothing... you wake up hearing about Watiupi 2009. I won't have that on my conscience... the hiking world doesn't need that ****.
So you can challenge what we did off our gut... I "called mom" right. You are some tough white blazing posters man... you really are! The disgruntled man who **** right in his campsite with crumpled up newspaper used to whipe with spread all of the damn campsite. I'm starting to see why many hikers I saw thru-hiking this year don't mess with this site...
It's a bunch of crabby old negative people looking to start stuff... I find most of it entertaining like the liberal news these days its more comedy than anything else.
Keep on flexxin your muscle via WB... it's awesome!
Gray Blazer
11-05-2009, 15:13
hahaha... listen to anyone saying that crap about having done the wrong thing... you can go to bed at the Doyle's after that run in and do nothing... you wake up hearing about Watiupi 2009. I won't have that on my conscience... the hiking world doesn't need that ****.
So you can challenge what we did off our gut... I "called mom" right. You are some tough white blazing posters man... you really are! The disgruntled man who **** right in his campsite with crumpled up newspaper used to whipe with spread all of the damn campsite. I'm starting to see why many hikers I saw thru-hiking this year don't mess with this site...
It's a bunch of crabby old negative people looking to start stuff... I find most of it entertaining like the liberal news these days its more comedy than anything else.
Keep on flexxin your muscle via WB... it's awesome!
Get a tougher skin. Some people agree, some flame.
As for me being crabby or negative (I am old), I'm really just a moron.
Phoenix I think you did the right thing.
But to be fair, when you say "reading" the Wall Street Journal, it does not imply that he is surrounded by his own used toilet paper. If this is the case, that would imply some fairly severe mental problems. Add into it a gun and a very territorial attitude, and you've got a tragedy just waiting to happen. I'm in Texas, but I'm glad you made the trail safer for the folks coming right behind you.
There's a huge difference between someone who is kind of a tramp and annoyance, and an armed severely disturbed individual.
Jim Adams
11-05-2009, 15:57
exactly. ust cause he's not an obviously hiker he shouldn't be out there? you should have left him the hell alone. he wasn't doing anything to you, probably just trying to make it one more day. you did something to him however. just because somebody isn't as fortunate as you and was different than you, he scared you. so you ran and told mommy on him. keep walking, dude. and mind your own business next time.
Good answer! If there were papers thrown around the area then maybe they could charge him with littering but other than that, he wasn't doing anything criminal.:-?
Please o please remind me never to be rude on the trail...I hate seeing SWAT Teams being sent into the woods!:eek:
geek
The Weasel
11-05-2009, 17:01
I wholeheartedly support calling the cops on any guy who hates gays, carries a gun, and reads the Wall Street Journal. But they didn't do anything to Rush the last time, so I agree that it's probably a wasted effort. Still, keep on trying. Just don't expect to see it mentioned on Fox News.
TW
Lone Wolf
11-05-2009, 17:20
I wholeheartedly support calling the cops on any guy who hates gays, carries a gun, and reads the Wall Street Journal.
TW
none of the 3 are illegal. you shouldn't judge
The Weasel
11-05-2009, 17:25
none of the 3 are illegal. you shouldn't judge
Just because they aren't illegal doesn't mean they shouldn't be. Especially reading the WSJ. Damn, that's scary. :eek:
TW
Just wondering how some of you would have handled this situation any different?? This guy was in a public place and had no right to tell these guys to leave!!They were not bothering him!! He sounds like a real nut job and did need something done! Not everyone would just walk away, I personally prob would have told him to _*** off!!
WritinginCT
11-05-2009, 17:43
There is definitely a difference between an anti-social homeless person squatting on a piece of trail and someone that is armed and acting in a menacing way. I've come across my share of homeless people trying to survive out there while I day hike. Most are okay, I respect their space and maybe we exchange a few civil words. Some though, are not okay and I have reported them to law enforcement.
It is not our jobs as civilians to determine if laws are being broken, that is the duty of law enforcement. All we can do is be vigilant and report things that give us cause for concern.
Yes, I believe people have a right to be armed and not harassed by law enforcement. People also have a right to be transient and anti-social, and perhaps even mentally ill. But I also have the right to not be raped, murdered, or threatened, or made to be afraid. Their rights do not trump mine, nor mine theirs.
For all of you saying that the OP should have just walked on by and let it go- say he did, and say that the next morning's newspaper headline touted that the body of a female hiker had been found near Clark's Ferry, raped and shot to death with a .38 and the police have no leads. Is that something you all could live with?
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 17:45
Um, guys, lets kill the political commentary, it doesn't belong here and you all know it.
Phoenix: You did just fine. You saw a guy acting weird; he was rude and belligerent, seemed out of place, and was perhaps threatening. He was armed, and you were not sure if this was being done legally. You were obviously concerned that this individual might potentially pose a threat to other people.
You reported it.
You did exactly right.
If someone checked the guy out based on your report, and it turned out he was fine, well no harm, no foul. A ranger or sheriff investigating a public place and seeing who's there and what they're up to doesn't interfere with anyone's rights. But if NOBODY checked the guy out, and something horrrible were to happen later, well that would be a tragedy.
So once again, you did just right.
Um, guys, lets kill the political commentary, it doesn't belong here and you all know it.
Phoenix: You did just fine. You saw a guy acting weird; he was rude and belligerent, seemed out of place, and was perhaps threatening. He was armed, and you were not sure if this was being done legally. You were obviously concerned that this individual might potentially pose a threat to other people.
You reported it.
You did exactly right.
If someone checked the guy out based on your report, and it turned out he was fine, well no harm, no foul. A ranger or sheriff investigating a public place and seeing who's there and what they're up to doesn't interfere with anyone's rights. But if NOBODY checked the guy out, and something horrrible were to happen later, well that would be a tragedy.
So once again, you did just right.
i am rude, belligerant, usually seem out of place, and most of the times armed. you call the cops on me for minding my own friggin business and yes, we're going to have a problem. i love the hysterical people that freak out when they encounter somebody that doesn't match their perfect little vision of how the world should be, they're awesome..:rolleyes:
Just wondering how some of you would have handled this situation any different?? This guy was in a public place and had no right to tell these guys to leave!!They were not bothering him!! He sounds like a real nut job and did need something done! Not everyone would just walk away, I personally prob would have told him to _*** off!!
i would have just kept walking...:eek:
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 18:42
Hey Kanga......sorry, but a quick reading of Post #34 above reveals who is a bit hysterical here. Pheonix's account of the guy he encountered was hardly a description of the "perfect little vision" one finds in the Trail community, and in fact, he was prefectly right for being concerned about the guy. An unfriendly armed guy muttering gay slurs and seeming threats to passersby isn't showing normal behavior, and if you think otherwise, you must live in a remarkable neighborhood.
Happily, the Trail is a bit different.
modiyooch
11-05-2009, 18:47
I say go with your gut instinct.
i think people should be left alone. it is a hysterical society. people worry about too much ****. people don't mind their business. as for me, i'm not hysterical. i don't give enough of a **** about what others are doing to get hysterical. i'm just making a point that people are too damn nosy.
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 18:54
In theory, Kanga, I agree with you. But how is muttering gay slurs and telling people to keep moving in line with your feeling that people should be respected and left alone?
I quite agree with your sentiments about respecting other people, but I don't see that it was Phoenix who was the offending party here.
well, they said hello. he didn't respond. move on, right then. he doesn't want to talk. how hard is that to figure out? so he's crazy. so he made gay slurs. they don't like it? tough ****. the man's allowed to have his opinions. about gays, about being bothered, about whatever he wants to. some people who have been out of the mainstream life for awhile, which it sounds like this guy was, don't have that social filter anymore that says "don't make comments about gays", "be polite", "wash your hands before eating", etc. get over it. he's not like you and he doesn't have to be.
i get the feeling that when he started muttering "gay slurs", which was probably just his way of making them uncomfortable enough to LEAVE HIM ALONE, those offended people were probably saying in their heads, "well! i have never in my life!" (big theatrical sigh inserted here)
i usually answer those people by smiling real big and saying, "well, now you have!" (big sigh...)
Wolf - 23000
11-05-2009, 19:45
Phoenix,
First off you did the right thing. I would also suggest letting ATC and the police chief know about this and the way the police addressed the issued. Something you may or may not be aware of. Where you met this man is the same area that a couple was killed back in 1990. The crime was a random act by a already wanted man. He was capture and is spend the rest of his life in jail thanks to three former thru-hikers
The part that is alarming to me is the cops reaction to your call. To push it off/or to simple forget about it is unacceptable to me. If the man was really armed as you said with a .38 cal, a series crime could have happen. The history in PA is not the greatest for AT hikers. I'm sure we all would agree, It sucks to hear about a random criminal that could have been avoided.
If cops are going to "forget about a call" when a gun is involved, that puts us all in danger. I'm glad at lease one ranger was smart enough to do the right thing even if involved just checking things out.
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 19:58
Wolf has indeed raised a very valid point, which is that while crimes or violent acts are really rare on the Trail, they HAVE happened.
In several cases, people commented later about the perpetrator "Oh yeah, he seemed a bit unusual...." or "We saw him and he was so unfriendly we kept going...." or whatever.
Which begs the question: I wonder, how many of these folks WERE passed or observed by other folks who were troubled or concerned by them, their speech, their appearance, words or actions.......yet they did nothing about it.
Plain and simply, trust your instincts. If you see something or someone out there that just doesn't seem right, then do something about it: Call it in.
Your fears and concerns may well be groundless. And if so, when someone checks the guy out, then nothing will happen, the ranger or cop will determine that everythng's fine, and the guy will go his merry way.
Then again, if your gut feelings are right......
In short, your concern may prevent a crime or save a life; your apathy, in all truth, might help cost one.
I agree 100% with Wolf-23000 and Jack Tarlin's posts.
modiyooch
11-05-2009, 21:03
I agree 100% with Wolf-23000 and Jack Tarlin's posts.
not mine??
Lone Wolf
11-05-2009, 21:11
i am rude, belligerant, usually seem out of place, and most of the times armed. you call the cops on me for minding my own friggin business and yes, we're going to have a problem. i love the hysterical people that freak out when they encounter somebody that doesn't match their perfect little vision of how the world should be, they're awesome..:rolleyes:
they exist from cubicles
Lone Wolf
11-05-2009, 21:15
the guy did nothing wrong. paranoia exists in hikers
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 21:17
Ask Meredith Emerson's family how they feel about this subject.
Something tells me that when it comes to getting antenna or bad vibes about someone you might see in the woods, and wondering whether or not to act on your feelings.....well seems to me they might have a somewhat different perspective. :-?
Lone Wolf
11-05-2009, 21:20
Ask Meredith Emerson's family how they feel about this subject.
Something tells me that when it comes to getting antenna or bad vibes about someone you might see in the woods, and wondering whether or not to act on your feelings.....well seems to me they might have a somewhat different perspective. :-?
"family" weren't in the woods that day. her "training" didn't help.
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 21:24
No, Wolf, but at some point that day, I'm willing to bet she got a bad feeling about the guy she encountered, but unfortunately, it was too late.
My point is that if and when one DOES get a bad gut feeling about someone you encounter, then one should act on this feeling immediately.
And to act this way is not paranoia.
MintakaCat
11-05-2009, 21:30
No, Wolf, but at some point that day, I'm willing to bet she got a bad feeling about the guy she encountered, but unfortunately, it was too late.
My point is that if and when one DOES get a bad gut feeling about someone you encounter, then one should act on this feeling immediately.
And to act this way is not paranoia.
True, but keep in mind this: public safety officials can not arrest someone for something they might do.
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 21:32
No one is suggesting this.
All I'm saying is that truly suspicious actions or behavior should be reported.
If it's nothing, it's nothing. A ranger visiting a shelter or campsite and checking out who's there and what they're up to, well there's nothing wrong with this, in fact it's part of their job.
sheepdog
11-05-2009, 21:34
...............
Jack Tarlin
11-05-2009, 21:39
Nice work, mods. Thank you.
Lone Wolf
11-05-2009, 21:39
cut the politics wease.
modiyooch
11-05-2009, 21:40
I don't think his rights were challenged. I compare it to neighborhood watch where people report suspicious behavior. It wasn't asked that he be arrested or moved, but it was requested to be checked out.
sheepdog
11-05-2009, 21:42
Nice work, mods. Thank you.
I did it myself. you're welcome
I commend the OP for taking the initiative on this.
When you report something that doesn't feel quite right to law enforcement, they may evaluate what you are reporting in a larger context. You may well be providing just one piece to a larger story.
Fact is, police get reports from all sorts of parties, from concerned family members looking for a depressed relative who has gone missing, to crime victims, to God only know what else. They are in a unique position to put some of the pieces together.
Sharing concerns with the authorities is in now way impinging on anyone's rights. Too many people look the other way. Great to hear reports of an exception, from an exceptional hiker.
As for the anti gay mutterings, that should not simply be glossed over. Not in that context. It speaks to an instability and anger of a kind that has already lead to the slaughter of innocents along the Trail. That stuff needs to be taken seriously.
Wow..I do a work out, do some food shopping and look what happens. ;)
Thanks 'Gator for cleaning up a mess while I was away. I had a feeling this thread would blow up. :)
Let's try to keep the politics out of it.... Life is too short....
To echo my agreement with Jack Tarlin and Wolf 23000, I think that it's important to keep in mind that the OP is nineteen years old -- 4 years younger than my daughter. So I'm thinking that if she were hiking with a pal and came across a deshevled guy armed with a pistol, at a campsite littered with crapped upon sheets of the WSJ, muttering at her and her friend telling them to leave, cusssing about "damned gays," and appearing threatening, then I would certain hope and expect that she would get away quickly and report the person to the cops. If that's somehow interfering with this man's freedom to carry a pistol, live life as he sees it by indirectly threatening two kids, then I can live with that.
Wolf - 23000
11-05-2009, 23:40
the guy did nothing wrong. paranoia exists in hikers
Lone Wolf,
Anytime the police are called they are expected to respond. It not the officer job on the phone to decided if a crime is being or has been committed.
It is also against the law to carry a weapon without a permit. I don't know if he had a permit or not and neither do you but it doesn't mean he was not doing anything wrong.
Also, in many areas on the AT it is against the law to carry a gun on the trail.
Wolf
Gotta make the call. If not to the police than to the rangers. While it is correct that none of his activities were illegal, added together they were enough to raise suspicions that an innocent could have been harmed.
Also, that shelter is not frequently visited by day hikers. Day hikers from the south usually stop at the top of the climb and those from the north rarely make it past the powerline 3.5 miles in from Rt 225. Hopefully, that limited the number of people he came in contact with.
It is also against the law to carry a weapon without a permit.
In many states, open carrying of a firearm does NOT require a permit.
Wolf - 23000
11-05-2009, 23:54
True, but keep in mind this: public safety officials can not arrest someone for something they might do.
MintakaCat,
You are correct. They "can't arrest someone for something they might do." but they can stop by and make sure the individual is not a threat to public safety or is no danger to himself or others. In either case the police can take an action. An officer is also allowed to check to see if a individual has the legal documents - in this case a gun permit if guns are permitted on that area of trail.
Wolf
Wolf - 23000
11-06-2009, 00:01
In many states, open carrying of a firearm does NOT require a permit.
Bearpaw,
I'm not sure if that is true but in PA it is required.
In Pennsylvania a License To Carry Firearms is required to conceal a firearm, or to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle (http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/concealed-carry).
Wolf
Bearpaw,
I'm not sure if that is true but in PA it is required.
In Pennsylvania a License To Carry Firearms is required to conceal a firearm, or to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle (http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/concealed-carry).
Wolf
Yes, you would need a permit to carry concealed or inside a vehicle. However, the OP specifies seeing the weapon on the person, implying it was carried in the open, hence open carry. Pennsylvania law specifies:
"In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by law (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6105) from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun (http://paopencarry.org/pa-gun-law-ss6102#firearm) in plain sight with no license except in vehicles (http://paopencarry.org/pa-firearm-law-ss6106)*, cities of the first class (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6108)** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically by statute (http://paopencarry.org/pa-open-carry-off-limits).
Ref.: Title 18, ch.61, Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#subchaptera) & Commonwealth v. Ortiz (http://paopencarry.org/Ortiz-v-Commonwealth)"
In this case, the man was not breaking any law in regard to the firearm.
Jack Tarlin
11-06-2009, 00:15
Bearpaw:
I think you're kind of missing the point here.
A hiker reports that he encounters an unusual, angry, perhaps emotionally disturbed man on the A.T. His appearance does not suggest that he's a hiker. And he's visibly armed, which is an extremely rare thing to see on the Appalachian Trail.
This would qualify as a definite unusual incident, and the original poster was absolutely correct in being concerned about it.
Wolf - 23000
11-06-2009, 00:19
Yes, you would need a permit to carry concealed or inside a vehicle. However, the OP specifies seeing the weapon on the person, implying it was carried in the open, hence open carry. Pennsylvania law specifies:
"In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by law (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6105) from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun (http://paopencarry.org/pa-gun-law-ss6102#firearm) in plain sight with no license except in vehicles (http://paopencarry.org/pa-firearm-law-ss6106)*, cities of the first class (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6108)** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically by statute (http://paopencarry.org/pa-open-carry-off-limits).
Ref.: Title 18, ch.61, Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#subchaptera) & Commonwealth v. Ortiz (http://paopencarry.org/Ortiz-v-Commonwealth)"
In this case, the man was not breaking any law in regard to the firearm.
§ 6122. Proof of license and exception.
General rule. -- When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.
I'm not a lawyer but the way I understand this is he would be required to have a license.
Wolf
Bearpaw:
I think you're kind of missing the point here.
A hiker reports that he encounters an unusual, angry, perhaps emotionally disturbed man on the A.T. His appearance does not suggest that he's a hiker. And he's visibly armed, which is an extremely rare thing to see on the Appalachian Trail.
This would qualify as a definite unusual incident, and the original poster was absolutely correct in being concerned about it.
I'm not disputing your point. I'm taking issue with the spreading of a common misperception, that permits are required for open carry when, in fact, they very often are not, and would not have been in this case.
§ 6122. Proof of license and exception.
General rule. -- When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.
I'm not a lawyer but the way I understand this is he would be required to have a license.
Wolf
I underlined and italicized the word "concealed" to make the point. Permits are required for hidden (i. e. concealed) weapons. Open carrying, where the OP could see the weapon, does NOT require a permit (because the weapon is not concealed) unless you are in a few specified areas. The trail outside Duncannon would not be one of those areas.
Lone Wolf
11-06-2009, 03:10
Lone Wolf,
Anytime the police are called they are expected to respond. It not the officer job on the phone to decided if a crime is being or has been committed.
It is also against the law to carry a weapon without a permit. I don't know if he had a permit or not and neither do you but it doesn't mean he was not doing anything wrong.
Also, in many areas on the AT it is against the law to carry a gun on the trail.
Wolf
cops should not have been called
nitewalker
11-06-2009, 08:11
so instead of alerting the officials we are supposed to suck it up and do nothing when we see something strange. lets wait till the weirdo kills someone then report it. the cops will say why didnt you say something sooner. and the person reporting the incident will say i didnt think it was a big deal. so if this is the way it goes then why report anything suspicious. let things hapen then figure out how to deal with the problem....... "its not my problem".....WRONG.............too many people think this way in todays society.....alert the authorities then move on, it is now their problem!
Gray Blazer
11-06-2009, 08:17
i am rude, belligerant, usually seem out of place, and most of the times armed. :rolleyes:
And you forgot to mention cute (in a kagaish sort of way).
Anyone can call the police anytime. The police receive tips all the time. Do they respond to all of them? Maybe they knew the guy knew he was a anti-gay, anti social, gun toting cop litterbug "reading" a Wall Street Journal?
Howcome Weasel can mention politics and it doesn't get deleted and I mention the Goreacle and my post dissapears into the ether?
nitewalker
11-06-2009, 08:21
and You Forgot To Mention Cute (in A Kagaish Sort Of Way).
Anyone Can Call The Police Anytime. The Police Receive Tips All The Time. Do They Respond To All Of Them? Maybe They Knew The Guy Knew He Was A Anti-gay, Anti Social, Gun Toting Cop Litterbug "reading" A Wall Street Journal?
Howcome Weasel Can Mention Politics And It Doesn't Get Deleted And I Mention The Goreacle And My Post Dissapears Into The Ether?
Its Called Selective Sensorship!!!:-?
Jim Adams
11-06-2009, 08:25
so instead of alerting the officials we are supposed to suck it up and do nothing when we see something strange. lets wait till the weirdo kills someone then report it. the cops will say why didnt you say something sooner. and the person reporting the incident will say i didnt think it was a big deal. so if this is the way it goes then why report anything suspicious. let things hapen then figure out how to deal with the problem....... "its not my problem".....WRONG.............too many people think this way in todays society.....alert the authorities then move on, it is now their problem!
Under this assumption then anyone walking through a town with a backpack on may be considered strange and or homeless. Lets send the police out after all of them just to make sure they are really hikers.
The problem with todays society is that everyone tends to over react and then put the responsiblity on someone else (police). The man, although rude and obnoxious did not break any laws or harm anyone but was labeled as "strange". True, I would also have left the area but if you are that paranoid of "odd" acting people then stay inside with family or friends. I think that it was "stange" and "odd" that you went to the police over the situation.
geek
MintakaCat
11-06-2009, 08:26
Howcome Weasel can mention politics and it doesn't get deleted and I mention the Goreacle and my post dissapears into the ether?
I'm pretty sure I read a couple of his posts yesterday that are now gone. So yes, his posts got deleted too.
Trail Bug
11-06-2009, 08:29
That may be true for PA, but the trail is considered Federal Property. I have a CCW for VA which is also an open carry state, but technicaly I cannot carry in many places here because of all the Federal regulations.
When I testified in Federal court as an officer I had to put my gun in a lock box before entering the courtroom.
As a former police officer when you get a call from your dispatcher it is not your job to decide if you are going to answer the call. You respond unless told to disregard by your supervisor.
Seeing someone on the trail with a gun would not bother me unless that person acted strangely and I got that feeling that something was not right. Then report it. You may be glad you did.
Yes, you would need a permit to carry concealed or inside a vehicle. However, the OP specifies seeing the weapon on the person, implying it was carried in the open, hence open carry. Pennsylvania law specifies:
"In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by law (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6105) from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun (http://paopencarry.org/pa-gun-law-ss6102#firearm) in plain sight with no license except in vehicles (http://paopencarry.org/pa-firearm-law-ss6106)*, cities of the first class (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6108)** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically by statute (http://paopencarry.org/pa-open-carry-off-limits).
Ref.: Title 18, ch.61, Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#subchaptera) & Commonwealth v. Ortiz (http://paopencarry.org/Ortiz-v-Commonwealth)"
In this case, the man was not breaking any law in regard to the firearm.
superman
11-06-2009, 08:37
The man, although rude and obnoxious did not break any laws or harm anyone but was labeled as "strange". True, I would also have left the area but if you are that paranoid of "odd" acting people then stay inside with family or friends.
I guess that depends on your friends and relatives. I'd feel safer with a rude and obnoxious wanabe hiker than with my friends and relatives.:)
bronconite
11-06-2009, 08:40
I don't think it's a big deal that The OP called the cops if he felt it was the right thing to do. But in all reality, there isn't much they can do if he isn't breaking any laws, and it doesn't sound like he was. But who knows, he may be wanted locally.
Phoenix, glad to see you made it. I talked to you a bit at the Port Clinton Hotel while you were enjoying your burger.:)
Yes, you would need a permit to carry concealed or inside a vehicle. However, the OP specifies seeing the weapon on the person, implying it was carried in the open, hence open carry. Pennsylvania law specifies:
"In Pennsylvania, persons 18 years of age and older whom are not prohibited by law (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6105) from owning firearms may openly carry a handgun (http://paopencarry.org/pa-gun-law-ss6102#firearm) in plain sight with no license except in vehicles (http://paopencarry.org/pa-firearm-law-ss6106)*, cities of the first class (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#6108)** (Philadelphia) and where prohibited specifically by statute (http://paopencarry.org/pa-open-carry-off-limits).
Ref.: Title 18, ch.61, Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act#subchaptera) & Commonwealth v. Ortiz (http://paopencarry.org/Ortiz-v-Commonwealth)"
In this case, the man was not breaking any law in regard to the firearm.
Bearpaw is correct. Pennsylvania is an open carry state. You do not need a permit to carry in the open. Lots of info and links here. http://paopencarry.org/
Gray Blazer
11-06-2009, 08:42
Its Called Selective Sensorship!!!:-?
Hey! How did my words All get capitalized. Are you really a capitalist?
Jim Adams
11-06-2009, 08:47
The man, although rude and obnoxious did not break any laws or harm anyone but was labeled as "strange". True, I would also have left the area but if you are that paranoid of "odd" acting people then stay inside with family or friends.
I guess that depends on your friends and relatives. I'd feel safer with a rude and obnoxious wanabe hiker than with my friends and relatives.:)
So true, so true!:D
geek
nitewalker
11-06-2009, 09:01
Under this assumption then anyone walking through a town with a backpack on may be considered strange and or homeless. Lets send the police out after all of them just to make sure they are really hikers.
The problem with todays society is that everyone tends to over react and then put the responsiblity on someone else (police). The man, although rude and obnoxious did not break any laws or harm anyone but was labeled as "strange". True, I would also have left the area but if you are that paranoid of "odd" acting people then stay inside with family or friends. I think that it was "stange" and "odd" that you went to the police over the situation.
geek
your comparing apples to oranges and i was not the one involved in the situation. if i seen something that was totally out of the norm and i mean totally i may consider reprting it to the proper authorities. if i see some guy toting a gun and acting disrespectful in a manner that was too be unnerving to myself or anyone else on the TRAIL i would report it to the next ranger i would see. cops dont need to be involved unless it escalates further.....
geek:D
Under this assumption then anyone walking through a town with a backpack on may be considered strange and or homeless. Lets send the police out after all of them just to make sure they are really hikers.
The problem with todays society is that everyone tends to over react and then put the responsiblity on someone else (police). The man, although rude and obnoxious did not break any laws or harm anyone but was labeled as "strange". True, I would also have left the area but if you are that paranoid of "odd" acting people then stay inside with family or friends. I think that it was "stange" and "odd" that you went to the police over the situation.
geek
100% exactly my point. i asked one of my non-hiking friends what she would have done if i took her on a trip and we encountered this. she was very confused why there was a problem with the guy and when i explained it to her she just laughed. she said she would have probably not said anything more than hey in the first place and she would have just kept walking. then she asked me, if you go to a coffee shop and there's this lone guy sitting at a 4-top and you go sit at his table and he tells you to leave, do you leave? i mean, really, the table has 4 chairs and he's only using one. well, you don't leave and the guy starts muttering "gay slurs". what to do? what to do? i know! call the cops on him. he's obviously disturbed. i think she had a great point.
unusual, angry, perhaps emotionally disturbed
Heck, that description could fit half the people out hiking the AT, wasn't that part of Benton McKays vision of the AT, a place for those types to go, to get away from societal ills.
If the guy didn't like people around him before he got reported, imagine what a powder keg he must be now. !
neighbor dave
11-06-2009, 09:17
dare i say that this is just what the overall plan is by the gov. and the media.
fear everything, buy security systems for your house,don't trust your fellow man, turn them in, the proper authorities will handle it, what's next???????
warraghiyagey
11-06-2009, 09:18
Heck, that description could fit half the people out hiking the AT, wasn't that part of Benton McKays vision of the AT, a place for those types to go, to get away from societal ills.
If the guy didn't like people around him before he got reported, imagine what a powder keg he must be now. !
I met a guy like that up at Pierce Pond. . .
I met a guy like that up at Pierce Pond. . .
Thats weird, so did I ! :rolleyes:
sasquatch2014
11-06-2009, 09:22
I see lot's of people that are a bit "off" on the trail in my area. I am not really all that concerned most of they I just categorize as the "talk themselves on the bus crazy" not the "cut off your head while you sleep crazy" There are a few of them that now call me every time that they roll through my area and if I am around I'll help them with a resupply like I do for any other hiker.
I don't know I guess I am just interested in peoples stories. There are days that I think about it and think you know that could be me. For all I know the people I have met on the trail when I am hiking in other areas may be thinking the same thing about me.
As the new Nat Geo program called it the "peoples trail" to me thats the best part of the trail the people.
Trail Bug
11-06-2009, 09:35
I looked under the address below. It also states Are there any places I can not open carry?
Yes. Off limits to open carry and concealed carry are:
ANY Court facility
ANY Federal Property (Unless Authorized)
State Parks (except while in vehicle)
Detention Facilities (Adult & Juvenile)
Air Carrier Airport Terminals (secure areas, common areas OK)
Unless I have been misinformed the A.T. is Federal property.
Best to just carry concealed and no one will know unless you start telling everyone that your carrying.
Bearpaw is correct. Pennsylvania is an open carry state. You do not need a permit to carry in the open. Lots of info and links here. http://paopencarry.org/[/quote]
you are misinformed. much of the at is not federal, in fact, you pass through quite a bit of private property on your way north.
I'm going to go on record stating that I think this whole story is a complete fabrication.
Way to feed the troll.
Trail Bug
11-06-2009, 09:54
That's true, but the landowner signs an agreement with the Government to cross his land. Where do you put the gun after you cross his land?
you are misinformed. much of the at is not federal, in fact, you pass through quite a bit of private property on your way north.
i don't "put" it anywhere. it stays in the same place it was in the beginning.
Trail Bug
11-06-2009, 10:04
The Appalachian Trail is currently protected along more than 99 percent of its course by federal or state ownership of the land or by right-of-way.
you are misinformed. much of the at is not federal, in fact, you pass through quite a bit of private property on your way north.
MintakaCat
11-06-2009, 10:24
The Appalachian Trail is currently protected along more than 99 percent of its course by federal or state ownership of the land or by right-of-way.
Ah yes, a Wikipedia quote. However, note 37 references the Appalachian Trail Conservancy website, but I can't find that reference on their website. Not saying it’s wrong, but I just can’t find the reference.
Alligator
11-06-2009, 10:32
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm)
Why has complete protection taken so long?
Getting federal money appropriated was difficult, and not all property owners were willing to sell, which occasionally raised the specter of the government's threatening to condemn land for the Trail—always a politically unpopular action. Slow progress of federal efforts and lack of initiative by some states led Congress to strengthen the National Trails System Act in an amendment known as the Appalachian Trail Bill, which was signed by President Jimmy Carter on March 21, 1978. The new legislation emphasized the need for protecting the Trail, including acquiring a corridor, and authorized $90 million for that purpose. More money was appropriated during the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton administrations. Today, 99 percent of the Trail runs across public lands.
le loupe
11-06-2009, 10:35
The Appalachian Trail is currently protected along more than 99 percent of its course by federal or state ownership of the land or by right-of-way.
<< edit based on Alligators post >>
Obama signed the CC holders bill of rights which included a provision allowing firearms in National Parks and refuges in coordination with local state law, in February '09.
There are only a few states where it is difficult/impossible to carry your handgun while on the trail (mostly in the northeast)
This has been well considered in previous threads. While I love guns I dont think this is a gun thread.
What you can do in a courthouse is entirely different.
le loupe
11-06-2009, 10:36
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm)
Today, 99 percent of the Trail runs across public lands.
Nice find- just wanted to highlight some of it.
MintakaCat
11-06-2009, 10:37
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm)
Why has complete protection taken so long?
Getting federal money appropriated was difficult, and not all property owners were willing to sell, which occasionally raised the specter of the government's threatening to condemn land for the Trail—always a politically unpopular action. Slow progress of federal efforts and lack of initiative by some states led Congress to strengthen the National Trails System Act in an amendment known as the Appalachian Trail Bill, which was signed by President Jimmy Carter on March 21, 1978. The new legislation emphasized the need for protecting the Trail, including acquiring a corridor, and authorized $90 million for that purpose. More money was appropriated during the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton administrations. Today, 99 percent of the Trail runs across public lands.
That's it! Thanks. Someone needs to correct the Wikipedia link.
Trail Bug
11-06-2009, 10:45
ATC LMPG: Revised April 2009
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BB8A229E6-1CDC-41B7-A615-2D5911950E45%7D/Part%203%20Public%20Use,%20Public%20Information%20 and%20Emergency%20Response.pdf
A key element of an appropriate emergency response is jurisdiction— the power or right to exercise authority over or administer the law in an area. In general, state and local jurisdictions retain their authorities and responsibilities for response to emergencies on the Appalachian Trail. The vast majority of federally acquired A.T. lands—including most recently acquired National Park Service lands and all
national forest lands—are under proprietary jurisdiction. Under this form of federal jurisdiction, the United States, as owner, exercises all the rights of a private party. In addition, commissioned rangers of the National Park Service or U.S. Forest Service may legally enforce federal regulations. The police and
emergency powers of the states should be exercised in connection with illegal acts of private persons to the same extent as they are exercised on privately owned lands, using state and local laws and regulations. States may not enforce federal regulations except to the extent that those regulations have been adopted by state legislatures.
quote=MintakaCat;916260]Ah yes, a Wikipedia quote. However, note 37 references the Appalachian Trail Conservancy website, but I can't find that reference on their website. Not saying it’s wrong, but I just can’t find the reference.[/quote]
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805451/k.C463/History.htm)
Why has complete protection taken so long?
Getting federal money appropriated was difficult, and not all property owners were willing to sell, which occasionally raised the specter of the government's threatening to condemn land for the Trail—always a politically unpopular action. Slow progress of federal efforts and lack of initiative by some states led Congress to strengthen the National Trails System Act in an amendment known as the Appalachian Trail Bill, which was signed by President Jimmy Carter on March 21, 1978. The new legislation emphasized the need for protecting the Trail, including acquiring a corridor, and authorized $90 million for that purpose. More money was appropriated during the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton administrations. Today, 99 percent of the Trail runs across public lands.
i'm sorry, what?
Alligator
11-06-2009, 10:56
i'm sorry, what?1% of the trail is not public lands. That would be about 22 miles.
bronconite
11-06-2009, 11:44
I looked under the address below. It also states Are there any places I can not open carry?
Yes. Off limits to open carry and concealed carry are:
ANY Court facility
ANY Federal Property (Unless Authorized)
State Parks (except while in vehicle)
Detention Facilities (Adult & Juvenile)
Air Carrier Airport Terminals (secure areas, common areas OK)
Unless I have been misinformed the A.T. is Federal property.
You are misinformed. In Pennsylvania, much of the AT is on State Forest of State Game Land, where open carry is perfectly acceptable, without any permit.
Best to just carry concealed and no one will know unless you start telling everyone that your carrying.
That's fine if you have a permit, otherwise you are breaking the law, and if caught could very well lose your Right to own firearms.
"Best" to conduct yourself within the confines of the law.:D
modiyooch
11-06-2009, 11:46
Forgive me for not reading or watching the news in full detail, but I will go out on a limb here and wonder if there were any red flags at Ft Hood that went unreported.
really? what good would that do? were there any flags for 911? hmmm...
He had nothing to worry about. People don't get killed on the AT too north of the Mason Dixon Line. Fact.
i am rude, belligerant, usually seem out of place, and most of the times armed. you call the cops on me for minding my own friggin business and yes, we're going to have a problem. i love the hysterical people that freak out when they encounter somebody that doesn't match their perfect little vision of how the world should be, they're awesome..:rolleyes:
This guy wasn't mindin his own business. He threatened two hikers if they didn't leave. BTW, Weasel, his reading of the Wall Street Journal is not a reason for condemnation. Some yuppie hiker may have left it there, and us folks addicted to reading will read most anything in an emergency.
Weary
Jester2000
11-06-2009, 13:33
I think it's fairly ridiculous for any of us to second guess the hiker who was on the scene. If said hiker has a hinky enough feeling about someone to want to call in authorities, then so be it.
While it's true that no crime was being committed at the moment, none of us knows if there were warrants out for the person, or alternately, if the person's family had reported him missing and were looking for him.
Yeah, some of us might have different threshholds for what sets off alarm bells in our heads. But the OP trusted his gut instinct -- which is the right thing to do.
My gut instinct says there's someone trolling this forum and he may or may not have a warrant out for his arrest. I guess I should call the cops.
modiyooch
11-06-2009, 13:53
another shooting today in Orlando. another red flag? wow, I hear this same debate on the news as I type... when is it a harmful mental state? when is it someone just different. When do you report? the OP did say the man was troubled and with a gun. I think some posters are focusing more on the word homeless, instead of troubled.
Pacific Tortuga
11-06-2009, 13:56
My gut instinct says there's someone trolling this forum and he may or may not have a warrant out for his arrest. I guess I should call the cops.
Why couldn't it be a woman. They're the biggest pot stirrer's I have ever known.
pyroman53
11-06-2009, 14:11
Carrying a weapon on federal land is not illegal. Public lands within the National Forests and Bureau of Land Management's System of Public Lands are generally open to hunting and as such, allow firearms. Hunting is often allowed on Fish and Wildife Refuges, as well. I think National Parks don't allow firearms, (but someone mentioned this was changed recently) but not all land owned by the NPS is a National Park. There are monuments, recreation areas, trails, and probably a lot more types of park properties that may have different rules and regs. Often, it is the authorizing legislation that determines what is allowed or not allowed.
This guy wasn't mindin his own business. He threatened two hikers if they didn't leave. BTW, Weasel, his reading of the Wall Street Journal is not a reason for condemnation. Some yuppie hiker may have left it there, and us folks addicted to reading will read most anything in an emergency.
Weary
weary, really? he was there first, had already set up a campsite, and the op walked up on him. he WAS minding his own business. hell, he was alone until the op walked up. how is that NOT minding your own business?
I think this thread has run its course.
9/11 talks? Gun control? Blah. Blah. Blah.
Call me a d-head. I don't care. It's in the 70s and I'm going for a hike. I don't want to see what steaming turds of posts await me when I get back. :)
Perhaps you all should take a hike too...