View Full Version : Therm-A-Rest® NeoAir™ What do you guys think?
Dirty Harry
11-13-2009, 01:10
I'm looking for a pad to replace my thermarest prolite. I like to fold it in a square and pack it into the bottom of my pack that is why I like the prolite. I was thinking this would be alot more compact but I'm not sure. I checked one out a couple months ago and it felt like the material wasnt to durable, plus the price was a little high, any input?
Try a domain constrained search on this site (and perhaps other relevant ones). For example, using google's 'advanced' search page (http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en), then enter "http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum" in the line that says "Search within a site or domain:", and put "neoair" as the text to search for. You'll definitely get a number of hits.
There are already many many threads about the neoair, on this site as well as others such as backpackinglight.com and backcountryforum.com and others, so IMO yet another thread about this isn't needed, unless you want to just focus on something narrow like "fold it up and put it in the bottom of my pack". On that particular topic, I roll mine, and then stick it in a gallon ziplock bag as a case and toss it in towards the bottom of the pack --- works fine. Overall packed volume is indeed low relative to the inflated size. For durability and cost and other more general issues ... well covered already in various threads.
Kerosene
11-13-2009, 08:58
If you're a side sleeper, you don't use a frameless pack, and you can afford it, then you've definitely got to try it.
Isn't the NeoAir the one that makes the annoying crinkley sounds when you roll over on it?
max patch
11-13-2009, 09:58
20th century technology.
21st century pricing.
"Isn't the NeoAir the one that makes the annoying crinkley sounds when you roll over on it?"
Also well covered in existing threads, but it's a matter of opinion. Indeed some people have talked about this. My recollection is that I don't recall [m]any that reported this as a problem after actually sleeping outdoors on one, more just an initial reaction of trying it out in stores, but I may be mistaken there (did I mention that there are a lot of threads discussing this "hottest piece of gear for 2009"?).
My own feeling from having slept just a few nights on backpacking trips on mine is that this noise seems pretty minimal in actual use, for me it's not at all an issue --- I don't notice it.
le loupe
11-13-2009, 10:20
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52915
Dirty Harry
11-13-2009, 10:39
Thanks for the link and input, I did search.....a little, but yes I was more focused on the "packing factor" of the neo air. I'm just trying to save a trip to the local outfitter, if there even is one here any more. I'm thinking about doing a thru with a Go Lite ion pack, so volume is the major concern. I know my prolite is going to be to big to fold and store, but I'm not sure if I would be saving that much room with the small neo air, thanks.
Alligator
11-13-2009, 10:53
Thanks for the link and input, I did search.....a little, but yes I was more focused on the "packing factor" of the neo air. I'm just trying to save a trip to the local outfitter, if there even is one here any more. I'm thinking about doing a thru with a Go Lite ion pack, so volume is the major concern. I know my prolite is going to be to big to fold and store, but I'm not sure if I would be saving that much room with the small neo air, thanks.It packs down significantly smaller than my Prolite 4. I haven't packed it into my ULA Conduit yet, that is, pack it into a pack where it aids the suspension. I know it will take up less volume though. I didn't buy the TR stuffsack, but instead used a silnylon sack that I already had. It was a small snack bag:). I only had mine out for 2 nights so I have been holding back on other comments. It is certainly a very comfortable pad, a little narrow in my opinion, I almost wish I had splurged and got the grande as I'm 6'2" and had the Prolite 4 previously. Time will tell.
g8trh8tr
11-13-2009, 11:25
It isn't for everyone but then again, nothing is. I bought one and I really like it because I am a side sleeper and it sleeps GREAT. Best sleep I get in the woods is with the Neoair and the weight and compression are awesome.
ShelterLeopard
11-13-2009, 11:41
Isn't the NeoAir the one that makes the annoying crinkley sounds when you roll over on it?
YES- A lot of people aren't bothered by it, but I slept beneath someone (hostel bunks) who was sleeping on a neoair. Every time he turned, I could crinkling. If I had been able to find my earplugs that night, I'm sure it would've been fine though... I might get it, I like soft sleeping!
ShelterLeopard
11-13-2009, 11:45
But I'm a side sleeper too, which is my main reason for really wanting the neoair. I have heard that it's a bit difficult to inflate though- takes a lot of breath. (It isn't self inflating)
le loupe
11-13-2009, 12:33
I sowed a sleeve for mine- tyvek on the bottom, a old sham pillow case on the top.
It adds a little weight but it also adds a layer of moisture & puncture resistance to the bottom and an additional layer of comfort to the top. I thought this would also reduce the crinkle-factor.
It slept great. It packs down tiny- I sometimes have trouble finding it.
Kerosene
11-13-2009, 14:07
But I'm a side sleeper too, which is my main reason for really wanting the neoair. I have heard that it's a bit difficult to inflate though- takes a lot of breath. (It isn't self inflating)8-12 big breaths to fully inflate, but you probably don't want to sleep on it fully inflated. If you can lug yourself up and down mountains all day, then you can inflate this baby (but you might have to stop and rest in the middle).
Kerosene
11-13-2009, 14:10
20th century technology.
21st century pricing.I think you are misinformed about the state of the technology, but with regard to the pricing I think we're still probably a decade of inflation away from $100+ prices for sleeping pads seeming appropriate!
ShelterLeopard
11-13-2009, 14:29
8-12 big breaths to fully inflate, but you probably don't want to sleep on it fully inflated. If you can lug yourself up and down mountains all day, then you can inflate this baby (but you might have to stop and rest in the middle).
Yeah, I'm totally sold on the neoair. (Christmas list is getting a little long...)
gravy4601
11-13-2009, 16:05
i heard there was a problem with the air valves leaking anyone else here about this
Tipi Walter
11-13-2009, 16:34
i heard there was a problem with the air valves leaking anyone else here about this
I just returned two new Thermarest pads due to leaky air valves, and I talked to a guy at Backcountry.com about the problems and he says Thermy is installing "new, upgraded valves" on their pads. He told me the name of the new valves but I forgot.
If volume is a concern, then I would say any inflatable mattress packs smaller than an equal size self-inflator or CCF pad. I use a BA pad, but I've been looking at the neoair for weight savings.
I pack my inflatable with my sleeping bag... I roll up the mattress, stick it in in my stuff sack, and stuff the sleeping bag inside the "tube" that the pad forms (the same method many use for putting a rolled up self-inflator inside their pack). The stuffed package is the same size as my stuffed sleeping bag, just packed more firmly, and therefore, by some twisted logic, my inflatable pad takes up zero space!
Kerosene
11-13-2009, 19:04
...and therefore, by some twisted logic, my inflatable pad takes up zero space!That's because it is now occupying another of the 11 dimensions that make up the M-version of string theory. Pretty soon we'll be able to carry along all of our worldly possessions without adding any weight to a pack.
ARambler
11-13-2009, 21:39
That's because it is now occupying another of the 11 dimensions that make up the M-version of string theory. Pretty soon we'll be able to carry along all of our worldly possessions without adding any weight to a pack.
How much does "Priceless" cost in this world?
It takes me 15 to 18 breaths to fill up my Neo vs 5 to 6 for the Prolite 3. Both are shorts. Although the ratio will stay the same, I think the small Neo will appeal to the light weight crowd, less inflation than the large, very light, and slightly better (less-worse) price. After 33 years, I have just cracked the 20 lb baseweight mark.
It seems there is a completely different niche that like the extra comfort for the same weight of their old pad. These are the ones with stuff sack and cozies. I don't think you will see many covers on the small.
The jury is still out on durability, and we need to keep a discussion thread alive to get an up to date feel on this issue. Unfortunately, the good data will not arrive until the thru hikers start reporting late next summer. It seems likely the Neo will be a more reliable product than the Hyperflow filter, which is still on the market.
Rambler
300winmag
01-15-2010, 01:15
I like Thermarest/Cascade Designs products but... this ain't one of them. Had the very 1st Neo-Air in in Las Vegas. The store had never seen one before. Took it backpacking in the Spring Mountains. In the 9,000 ft. altitudes I "tested" it.
PROS>
1. light
2. compact
CONS>
1. Ya gotta blow the ENTIRE mattress up!
2. It loses a lot of thickness when temps go from 70 F. to 28 F. in one night
3. Too bouncy
4. too high off floor (when properly inflated at 80% of max). Try "hangin' a leg out" in summer. Not comfy.
5. A bit noisy at times.
I returned mine to REI afer that trip & went back to my 10-year-old Thermarest Lite regular at 18 oz. Love it, patches and all.
Eric
I'm in the market for a new pad, it's not that i really really need a new one, but change makes for better sleep ;)
I've got my eye in the POE ether elite though, i've got a POE max thermo and it sleeps very comfy and the elite is less than half the price of the neo.
i have been interested in getting one since they came out but the price has scared me off. i finally asked a friend last weekend if i could try their's out. i laid on it for all of 5 seconds before i was extremely happy i had not spent the money.
#1: way too crinkly loud. it would drive me nuts all night long.
#2: unbelievably narrow.
#3: slid alot on the side to side air chambers. finally figured out that i like the long-ways baffles of the big agnes type pads.
once again, so so glad i didn't not spend the money.
skinny minnie
03-26-2010, 13:23
8-12 big breaths to fully inflate, but you probably don't want to sleep on it fully inflated. If you can lug yourself up and down mountains all day, then you can inflate this baby (but you might have to stop and rest in the middle).
Ummmmm, it took me like 40 breaths to fully inflate. Hahaha. YMMV!
"unbelievably narrow"...
maybe that is stretching it a bit.
The commonest width, (and by far) , with self inflating/inflatable mats is 20 "
The Neo Air is about 19.5" when fully inflated . In comparison my Prolite 4 is almost 20" at the widest but only for a few inches of length.
My 20" PO Insulmat max Thermo is in fact 18" fully inflated (at the widest point) .
Maybe you friend has the same prototype that BPL had, that one was narrower.
As for noise, my self and two mates did not find it noisy at all (both asked me "what noise") but of course that is very subjective.
And BTW, this is the R value according to the BPL tests
R-2.5 (Claimed)
R-2.6 (Measured at typical inflation)
R-3.0 (Measured at Maximum Inflation)
Franco
ascientist
03-26-2010, 20:26
I like it.
"unbelievably narrow"...
maybe that is stretching it a bit.
that is your opinion. my opinion is that it is unbelievably narrow.
My concern with the pad, and I haven't used it yet so I'm asking here, is about insulation. It seems to me like it would provide none from underneath. And since I chill easily at night, I'm unsure if I could comfortably use the pad. Thoughts?
Mountain Wildman
03-26-2010, 23:47
I have the NeoAir Large (25" X 77")
I timed myself the other day and it took 1 minute and 20 seconds to full inflation.
I don't smoke, Did not get lightheaded.
It is crinkly and the noise bothered me until I fell asleep, Didn't notice the noise after that, Slept straight to morning.
Rolling over with the weight of my knee on the mattress I did feel the floor under me until I laid flat again thus distributing my weight over the mattress. I am just under 6 feet tall and weigh 290 pounds.
I like the mattress, it weighs 19 ounces and is wide enough and the perfect length for me. Bought the fast and light repair kit in case of a puncture which I have always carried with any air mattress I have used.
I love it because I get the comfort and adjustability of an air mattress and it weighs just over a pound. It has a sticky nature to on the top and bottom it so I don't slide around on it and the mattress does not slide on the Silnylon tent floor.
Insulation..
That is measured as Resistance value, the R I quoted above.
It is a comparative value , so what keeps one warm will not necessarily work for you. (like sleeping bags,clothing, the temp you set on your air conditioned office...)
The other reason I posted that was to show that the mat does not have to be fully inflated to reach the claimed value.
So R2.5 is warmer than the Z Lite at 2.2 or the Prolite at also 2.2, however not as warm as the Prolite Plus at 3.8. A non insulated inflatable mat like the ones from Big Agnes,Pacific Outdoor and Exped , has an R value between 1 and 1.5 . R 3 is twice as insulated/warm as R1.5.
The ubiquitous 20" (50 cm -19.5" here) blue mat is also around R1/1.5.
Franco
springerfever
03-27-2010, 01:24
I second what MW said above. I tried the regular size and found it a little to narrow for my liking. Swapped up to the large and it's incredibly comfortable. Takes a while to blow it up, but what's the hurry. After turning in, open the valve slightly and find that sweet spot. The extra five inches in width makes a big difference, particularly if you like to sleep on your side.
Kind'a a pain to roll it up and fit back into its stuff sack, so I returned the sack (its sold separately) and now just fold it once, roll, and line a large stuff sack with it .Gear goes in the middle of the tube. Much easier !
Mountain Wildman
03-27-2010, 01:31
I second what MW said above. I tried the regular size and found it a little to narrow for my liking. Swapped up to the large and it's incredibly comfortable. Takes a while to blow it up, but what's the hurry. After turning in, open the valve slightly and find that sweet spot. The extra five inches in width makes a big difference, particularly if you like to sleep on your side.
Kind'a a pain to roll it up and fit back into its stuff sack, so I returned the sack (its sold separately) and now just fold it once, roll, and line a large stuff sack with it .Gear goes in the middle of the tube. Much easier !
I usually roll mine up 3 times.
First roll pushing the majority of air out, Unroll and roll a second time getting more air out, and the last roll is tight and gets 99% of all air out.
Then I can fit it in the small Thermarest drysack with the fitted sheet on it also. I bought the drysack thermarest offers instead of the stuff sack.
I'm looking for a pad to replace my thermarest prolite. I like to fold it in a square and pack it into the bottom of my pack that is why I like the prolite. I was thinking this would be alot more compact but I'm not sure. I checked one out a couple months ago and it felt like the material wasnt to durable, plus the price was a little high, any input?
I'd put this pad in the scary light category, and add that an air mattress, once you get a leak, provides neither comfort nor insulation.
For all the weight you'd save, it would be wise to carry a small closed cell foam pad just in case, eliminating the weight savings. I would do this myself if I didn't hang a hammock, but I'm pretty much done with ground sleeping unless it's the dead of winter on top of a mountain.
I had one of the early ones, which, like many, leaked. I think they've got the "leaky from the factory" issues pretty well fixed.
For me, the NeoAir was really comfortable, and I plan to use my replacement a lot. I didn't have any issues with the width. It's 20" wide. I've used the Torsolite, which is 17" at the widest, tapering down to 12". To me, THAT was too narrow! I think the width may be an issue for some back-sleepers, with arms dangling off. As a side-sleeper, it wasn't an issue at all.
I used it down to about 25 degrees or so, and found it plenty warm for me. See Franco's stats on R-value. If I hadn't heard reports that it's "crinkly" I wouldn't have noticed anything remarkable at all as far as noise. If you're the type of person that notices every noise at night, you probably will. Inflating it is a non-issue to me. Compared to the effort of a hard day's hiking, it's nothing.
Bottom line for me: For the weight, the most comfort of any pad I've ever used. Truly outstanding. I think the NeoAir's biggest negative is likely durability issues.
For good sleeping pad (or other backpacking gear) reviews check this out (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/category_display?cid=40).
jen.sprout
05-04-2010, 23:18
Sprang for a NeoAir last year and I'm not looking back. Best nights of sleep on the trail I've had since I thru-hiked with the old Thermarest Limited Edition (yes, way back in the dark ages, it weighed a ton, but it was 2" thick!).
Pertinent notes:
--Switched from a Thermarest Pro 4 last (3 was too thin)
--I'm a side sleeper who regularly had aching hips trying to sleep
--I've not been bothered by the noise.
--Does take a fair amount to inflate, but I think that's mostly because Thermarest users are used to partial self-inflation. I do inflate all the way because I need the padding; haven't had valve problems yet.
--Packs way smaller than a Pro4. Had to adjust my pack set up - my pro4 used to be my padding in the back, but got it sorted out. I think I may be able to go down a pack size with the volume reduction.
2 weekends on the trail with my neoair.....
1st: great night's sleep. I'm thrilled!
2nd: Sat afternoon nap..scooch around....hsssssss...damn...forgot about the stump by the tarptent....repair the hole with TR patch kit....patches won't hold...use all 4 in the $10 kit...go to bed at night, with my thumb on the patch to hold it on...wake up at 2 a.m., with air out of neo air - and patches on the first hole have held....another hole...sigh....thank God for Ambien...on the way home, i buy another patch kit....is this really what i want to take for a 10 day trip to Philmont this summer?
Tipi Walter
05-05-2010, 09:16
2 weekends on the trail with my neoair.....
1st: great night's sleep. I'm thrilled!
2nd: Sat afternoon nap..scooch around....hsssssss...damn...forgot about the stump by the tarptent....repair the hole with TR patch kit....patches won't hold...use all 4 in the $10 kit...go to bed at night, with my thumb on the patch to hold it on...wake up at 2 a.m., with air out of neo air - and patches on the first hole have held....another hole...sigh....thank God for Ambien...on the way home, i buy another patch kit....is this really what i want to take for a 10 day trip to Philmont this summer?
There it is. It's all about denier threadcount and fabric shell thickness if you want a durable pad. I've read so many stories about the negatives of the NeoAir that if needed I can dredge them up here. Suffice it to say it's a niche luxury item for the Ultralight-impaired. But hey, don't try telling this to the Captivated and Enraptured.
Tipi, good one. I would love to get a neo, but seems to finiky to me. Concept is great, reality for a lot of folks seems different.
My BAIAC has lots of nights on it, and I pay attention to tent set up for nasties, but nothing has happened with like 50 nights on it.
Jen. I have 4 of those TR LE pads, they are great. Never failed, warm as toast, just wish they were 1/2 the weight and size. Still my go to base camp and winter pads. Excellent product.
FamilyGuy
05-06-2010, 11:43
FWIW, I had BA replace two air pads because of premature leaking. Nature of the beast with full air pads in my opinion. Comfort v.s. durability trade-off.
I have a Prolight short. It is bulky to carry, lashed outside a 30 Liter pack.
I have a NeoAir small. I disappears inside a 30 Liter pack.
I have an Exped 7 (with pump) short. It packs very reasonably small inside the 30 Liter pack at the bottom of the pack and under my homemade down sleeping quilt.
I use the ProLight for car camping at the county parks, while traveling.
I like my NeoAir best for "fast-and-light" hiking. I love my Exped for luxurious hiking and camping.
I am mostly a side-sleeper, but, when I am fully relaxed I am a back-sleeper.
The NeoAir seems narrow for me at my shoulders and I am not a "big" woman.
If I have any problem, REI takes it back. I haven't had a problem.
Many stores will take it back, if you have a "leaker". Ask, before you purchase.
Note: I select a good spot to sleep and improve it slightly by removing sharp pointy things.
Plus, I use a Tyvek groundsheet. Rather than sleep on rocks, I hammock. I even use rock-climbing equipment like small chocks to hang the hammock off a rock. My tarp "converts" very nicely into a "travel" hammock.
Have a neo air, which is great for a side sleeper, but to hard to inflate, at the end of hard day of hiking I didn"t want to sit down and have to blow 10 to 20 breaths to inflate. Have a prolite 4 which I really like, but I'am going to try the zrest.
There it is. It's all about denier threadcount and fabric shell thickness if you want a durable pad. I've read so many stories about the negatives of the NeoAir that if needed I can dredge them up here. Suffice it to say it's a niche luxury item for the Ultralight-impaired. But hey, don't try telling this to the Captivated and Enraptured.
Tipi: I have 5 thermarests (includingthe BaseCamp), a ridgerest, and a z-lite. The primary reason I wanted to try the neoair is because of the comfort. And it is darn comfortable.....when it holds air!
millergear
05-07-2010, 11:46
Some do hold up well. I met a Thru hiker in N. Va. using one from Springer (in the snow) w/o any issues.
I've got about 600 miles on mine, including all of rocky PA and NJ - still going strong.
skinewmexico
05-07-2010, 14:52
I'm always just amazed that it took the NeoAir for some people to realize that reliable, durable, insulated air mattress' have been around.........for 10 years. Gotta admit, Thermarest had dedicated brand followers.
Kerosene
05-07-2010, 21:54
This is an example where it would be great if the manufacturer provided some transparency as to product quality. Based on what I've heard, the early batches appeared to have had quality issues such as delamination, but comments over the past 6 months have centered more on unexplained loss of air and susceptibility to puncture.
Certainly it appears that the NeoAir covering isn't as thick as a Prolite, but I haven't found any scientific comparisons regarding puncture resistance. Until then, I'll take the warnings with a grain of salt, as I have not experienced any problems to date. I haven't experienced any problems with air loss either, although it has been a challenge to tune the firmness to what works for me as a side-sleeper.
As for some of the other complaints I keep hearing recounted:
I find the nylon on my sleeping bag to be more annoying than the NeoAir, but I don't hear either because I typically wear earplugs.
If you can lug a pack 15 miles up mountains, then you certainly shouldn't have a problem blowing one up. It takes 9 large breaths to fill my Short to capacity, but I could probably get by with 7 as I don't like it that firm.
While I have owned other Therm-a-Rests, for me it's always been trying to find the best balance between comfort and weight. The NeoAir is far superior to my BMW TorsoLite, but of course it's even more expensive.
ARambler
05-08-2010, 01:28
I'm always just amazed that it took the NeoAir for some people to realize that reliable, durable, insulated air mattress' have been around.........for 10 years. Gotta admit, Thermarest had dedicated brand followers.
I'm pretty sure Rocky Bob and I both had Thermorests in 1985 in Wesser. You will have a hard time finding one with a brass valve or the Hostel not spelled NOC. Not sure if you are saying the changes have to be good? Try waiting for the Wesser bus.
skinewmexico
05-08-2010, 13:36
I'm pretty sure Rocky Bob and I both had Thermorests in 1985 in Wesser. You will have a hard time finding one with a brass valve or the Hostel not spelled NOC. Not sure if you are saying the changes have to be good? Try waiting for the Wesser bus.
No, I was saying that the Neoair was a response, several years late, to the loss of market share caused by products like the POE Max Thermo, the BA IAC, and several Expeds. The NEoair is quite a bit lighter than those products, at 3-4 times the cost.
spirit4earth
05-11-2010, 18:45
I love my neo-air!