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Chance09
11-17-2009, 20:23
I just bought a 4 1/2 by 8 1/2 poncho/tarp today and i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to the best method to set it up for inclement weather? I am planning on taking it on the PCT next year and not really having too use it to much. I'm assuming that i'll just be setting it up with two trekking poles and some guylines. I was thinking about maybe making some with elastic in the them like i used for my hammock guylines to give the lines a little play and to give the fabric some relief.

Grinder
11-17-2009, 20:51
here's one approach that looks cool if you're not too tall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgoqAtw-55g

It makes a mini dome tent out of a poncho

bigcranky
11-17-2009, 20:54
I like to use a half pyramid pitch, using one pole, with maybe a second optional pole to add volume. Like this:

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/6/6/0307hike0540_thumb.jpg (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15993&c=member&imageuser=266)

The open side should face away from any weather coming your way. The pole can be higher or lower depending on how much protection you need. The second pole just pulls out the center of the fabric to give more vertical room inside.

brooklynkayak
11-17-2009, 21:43
There are a few different designs of poncho tarps. Most are like flat tarps and would be pitched like flat tarps. The SMD Gatewood is designed to be pitched pyramid style. The flat tarp style are more flexible in the way they can be pitched.
There may be others, but I haven't used em.

BrianLe
11-17-2009, 21:57
With a flat, standard poncho such as the Golite, Campmor, etc, typical setups are the A-Frame, Lean-To, or a hybrid of those two, but there are a lot of options. High A-Frame if not expecting bad weather and wind, bring the foot-end of the A-Frame down as low as possible and bring the head end down too if weather looks more doubtful, etc etc. Use of any sort of a bivy can skew this too.

Shouldn't be difficult to search the web for threads that go into this in more detail, such as this one (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21566).

sbhikes
11-17-2009, 23:32
My friend who is 6'5" tall used a Golite poncho for a shelter for the entire PCT, even during a lot of bad weather. He usually set up one corner with the trekking pole. Here is a picture:
http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=420900

I usually set mine up with the trekking pole in the middle like this:
http://picasaweb.google.com/dianesoini/PCT2009EastFromSantaBarbaraToThePCT#53505681490729 07202

I was really glad to have a tent when I got to mosquito country, though. If you are planning on tarping it the whole way, bring a headnet and some DEET.

tammons
11-18-2009, 11:14
YOu dont want to use shock cord for tiouts etc. Use just regular cord like triptease or spectra etc.

If you go on youtube and type in tart tent you will get alot of setup vids.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tarp+tent&search_type=&aq=f

brooklynkayak
11-18-2009, 22:57
I agree shock cord will stretch and cause your shelter to flap.
Braided mason's line is a cheap and light alternative.


YOu dont want to use shock cord for tiouts etc. Use just regular cord like triptease or spectra etc.

If you go on youtube and type in tart tent you will get alot of setup vids.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tarp+tent&search_type=&aq=f

Bulldawg
11-18-2009, 23:09
I agree shock cord will stretch and cause your shelter to flap.
Braided mason's line is a cheap and light alternative.

I've started using a rope called ZING-IT for tarp tie outs. Worked out pretty good this past weekend.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs019.snc3/12669_1264845573981_1015017156_829117_7814653_n.jp g

J5man
11-18-2009, 23:11
I just bought a 4 1/2 by 8 1/2 poncho/tarp today and i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to the best method to set it up for inclement weather? I am planning on taking it on the PCT next year and not really having too use it to much. I'm assuming that i'll just be setting it up with two trekking poles and some guylines. I was thinking about maybe making some with elastic in the them like i used for my hammock guylines to give the lines a little play and to give the fabric some relief.

I have one of those and I use it as a tarp over a my hammock when I use it. Not a lot of extra space but it gets the job done.

brooklynkayak
11-19-2009, 08:56
I've started using a rope called ZING-IT for tarp tie outs. Worked out pretty good this past weekend.

Hey Bulldog, thanks for the hint. I'd never heard of it until know. It is thicker and a little heavier than braided mason's line, but rated at 400 lbs, I may have to get some.

I'll still use the mason's line for most stuff, but it may not be strong enough for some critical things so having some XING-IT looks about perfect..

sbhikes
11-20-2009, 01:27
I just used cord for curtains. It is white, braided and oddly does not unravel.

brooklynkayak
11-20-2009, 11:10
I just used cord for curtains. It is white, braided and oddly does not unravel.

I haven't really compared the different curtains cords out there, but isn't that more expensive than the other options? I'm sure it's good and strong stuff.

Tipi Walter
11-20-2009, 11:26
I'm looking at the tarp fotogs posted here and wonder how well they would hold up to the original poster's Inclement weather question. I don't know where you guys camp, but here in the mountains of TN and NC we have some terrible windstorms with pelting rain and I just can't see an open tarp working like in the pics of Big Cranky and sbhikes.

I was in a recent blow at around 5,000 feet and we had some fierce winds with the rain coming in horizontally and the normal tarp setup wouldn't work. And then I wonder, wouldn't the hiking pole handle/tarp apex lift off the ground in a tough wind, collapsing the tarp?

Another situation and problem I see are heavy rain ground sheets and water pooling underneath. I spent enough time under tarps to remember trying to put everything I had up on my boots and getting my bag off any part of the ground or wet ground cloth but still the water formed a one inch lake for an hour or two. Anybody committed to tarp useage have to remember these points.

And then there's the winter snow blizzards blowing in spindrift, fine particles of snow getting into everything.

Bulldawg
11-20-2009, 11:29
It's all in site choice and weather watching Walter. You have to have a bail out option and a backup plan like a shelter. If no shelters are around, you have to have a bail out plan. That or lay there wet dying. Well, that or be an indian.

Tipi Walter
11-20-2009, 11:40
It's all in site choice and weather watching Walter. You have to have a bail out option and a backup plan like a shelter. If no shelters are around, you have to have a bail out plan. That or lay there wet dying. Well, that or be an indian.

Bail out plan? What if you're dropped off somewhere for two weeks and your bail out plan has to be on your back? Why use a shelter that limits your freedom by first having to carefully consider site choice and weather watching? And I know of very few sites that won't collect water in a ground pounding heavy rain, even never-used, first-time camps. And as far as established "naked" camps, like around AT shelters, they often become temporary lakes.

Bulldawg
11-20-2009, 12:08
Bail out plan? What if you're dropped off somewhere for two weeks and your bail out plan has to be on your back? Why use a shelter that limits your freedom by first having to carefully consider site choice and weather watching? And I know of very few sites that won't collect water in a ground pounding heavy rain, even never-used, first-time camps. And as far as established "naked" camps, like around AT shelters, they often become temporary lakes.


Whatever Walter. Going into the woods without some sort of bail out plan is stupid.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tinker
11-20-2009, 13:24
Here's a picture of a poncho-tent I had made for me by Ron at Mountain Laurel Designs:
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1253558973059664855OKnpkD
Since I hammock most of the time now, I only use it as a poncho (and minimalist tarp for my hammock on weekend trips).
Bringing the back stakes closer together and raising the rear hiking pole will get you more headroom. I would never use it without bug shelter now that I've had Lyme disease at least twice (never confirmed, just suspected - rash and bite site, joint stiffness and lethargy). Hanging gets you a little further from the critters, though you're most likely to pick them up while hiking and they have a nasty way of making it past your treated clothing and deet-sprayed skin.

beakerman
11-20-2009, 15:22
All that water pooling crap is why I hang a hammock. My site requirements are then based mostly on availibility of tie-off points rather than drainage. I do still tent withthe family but I'm very picky about where I put my tent. I would never plan on spending more than a weekend under a tarp on th ground....my luck just isn't that good.

bigcranky
11-20-2009, 16:00
I've had the smaller tarp in blowing rain and even a blizzard. My current tarp is 6x10 (that's the one pictured above.) So far I guess I've just been really lucky to not have giant pools of water under my tarp. Or, maybe I know something about choosing a tarp site. One or the other, anyway.

Mags
11-20-2009, 18:43
I don't know where you guys camp,


I camp in Colorado where the "high elevation" of 5000' is BELOW where I live. ;)

Tarps work fine in snow, rain and all kinds of conditions. I've been in Colorado snowstorms in a tarp (or similar) have been warm, dry and comfortable.

I've used a tarp/similar all over the West (including the PCT) and continue to use one. Light, simple, effective shelter for those on the go. (Nothing wrong with tents...but nothing wrong with tarps, either. :) )

Tipi Walter
11-20-2009, 19:07
I camp in Colorado where the "high elevation" of 5000' is BELOW where I live. ;)

Tarps work fine in snow, rain and all kinds of conditions. I've been in Colorado snowstorms in a tarp (or similar) have been warm, dry and comfortable.

If you mainly make base camps to hike from , don't backpack every day and want more of a semi-permanent setup, tents are a good option.

I've used a tarp/similar all over the West (including the PCT) and continue to use one. Light, simple, effective shelter for those on the go. Leave the heavy (as opposed to light) tents to base campers. (Nothing wrong with tents...but nothing wrong with tarps, either. :) )

How do you deal with pooling ground water and snow spindrift?

Bulldawg
11-20-2009, 22:01
How do you deal with pooling ground water and snow spindrift?


Like everyone keeps trying to tell you Walter, site selection.:-?:-?:-?

Tipi Walter
11-20-2009, 23:05
Like everyone keeps trying to tell you Walter, site selection.:-?:-?:-?

For snow spindrift?

brooklynkayak
11-20-2009, 23:29
For snow spindrift?

Hi Tipi Walter,
You are more experienced at this subject than I, but I find that if a tarp is pitched with a low perimeter, spindrift may only be a minor problem. An ultralight bivy(bag cover) or a bag with good DWR makes it so that only a very small percentage of moisture actually makes it into the sleeping bag insulation, so body heat evaporates the small amount of moisture before it can affect the insulation properties.

When I tarp in extreme stormy/blizzard conditions, I don't let it bother me and wake with a relatively dry and comfy sleeping bag in all the cases I've experienced so far.

Bulldawg
11-20-2009, 23:43
I'd love to see some pictures of your set ups Brooklyn. I usually hammock but I am leaning more towards tarping in the fall thru early spring, and only hammocking in the summer.

brooklynkayak
11-21-2009, 10:06
I'd love to see some pictures of your set ups Brooklyn. I usually hammock but I am leaning more towards tarping in the fall thru early spring, and only hammocking in the summer.

I don't have any photos of a flat tarp with a full storm setup, but I'll include some links that do.

Here is a photo of my tapered A frame tarp(Hut 1) setup for 360 degree storm protection. If it wasn't windy this setup would be stuffy and there would be condensation in the morning:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_z2SnDYxcXMk/SvqqKvlqf2I/AAAAAAAAB9s/3Qq29hLO7TU/s640/sany0015.jpg

Here is a view with the vestibule open showing SMD Meteor Bivy, bag and gear: Note the leaves on top of the bivy:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_z2SnDYxcXMk/SvqqNBuZxJI/AAAAAAAAB9w/WYKuJfqaAzY/s640/sany0017.jpg


Here are a couple of good links that have 270 degree storm protection examples of flat tarps:
Sgt. Rock's page:
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html

A good PDF:
http://gossamergear.com/gossamergear/images/user_manuals/User_Manual_SpinnTwinn.pdf

A flat tarp can be pitched with 360 degree protection, but it's a bit harder to get in and out of and you may not be able to sit all the way up. 270 degree is almost always adequate. The exeption that I have found is coastal kayak trips where the wind has turned 180 degrees during the storm. I'd have to get out and modify the pitch.

Shaped tarps have less flexibility than flat tarps but setup can be easier and you can sit up in them with 360 degree protection. , Surprisingly, the Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape can be setup with a pretty comfortable 360 degree protection, with all my gear inside and I can sit up.

Mountain Laurel Designs have some good pitcures of Pyramid style tarps:
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=7ac6ef5c080141cd90aedb064276da3f

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XlHZon3OUk-2YU6EQa5JOQ?feat=directlink

cabana
11-21-2009, 11:25
I use a Hut 1 here in Colorado. I really like the protection it gives, and I like the option to pitch it high, with the door open, to increase venting to stop condensation. I use a high pitch even during rain to help vent, but condensation still forms. I like the room in this tarp, but I do have a hard time taking on/off clothing. I don't have to much of a beef with the head room because I like being able to set up this tarp in the rain withoul trying to keep an inner tent from getting wet.
Regards,
John

randyg45
11-21-2009, 12:10
The first best option for the SUL crowd, as I read their journals, is: bail. The "inclement weather" they seem to endure without leaving the trail is something i might call a shower, or perhaps only a sprinkle.

brooklynkayak
11-21-2009, 13:37
The first best option for the SUL crowd, as I read their journals, is: bail. The "inclement weather" they seem to endure without leaving the trail is something i might call a shower, or perhaps only a sprinkle.

That might be true with some. If your implying that a tarp is not as good at as a full on tent, I highly disagree.
I do realize that some people never learn how to pitch a shelter. I have seen many experienced AT thru-hikers pitch there tents in the bottom of a depression or gully, when there was good high ground available.

The idea that a free standing double wall dome is more bombproof is just plain wrong. I have seen people ride out gails in comfort inside tarp shelters while people were getting soaked inside their cramped, double wall domes with broken poles.

Every story that I have heard about people being uncomfortable in a tarp is because they didn't pitch it correctly.
It isn't rocket science, but many people choose to never learn or learn when it is too late.

Tarps are not just for the SUL crowd. You can still carry extra weight and still have the flexibility, comfort and space of a tarp.

People like me who grew up camping under tarps, just don't understand why people think that a tent is somehow superior. Tents usually have lot of unessesary weight.

brooklynkayak
11-21-2009, 13:46
Yes, I added extra line to my "Hut 1" so I could pitch it as more of a sun shelter in the warmer months,
There are lot more pitching options than people realize.
I once had to pitch it in dense bush with only about a foot and a half of open flat ground. I laid my bivy on the flat spot and pitched the Hut 1 over the top of the bushes. The bushes blocked the wind enough that the blowing rain hardly sprayed on the bivy and I slept comfy.
The flexibility and ease of setup is what I like about this tarp.


I use a Hut 1 here in Colorado. I really like the protection it gives, and I like the option to pitch it high, with the door open, to increase venting to stop condensation. I use a high pitch even during rain to help vent, but condensation still forms. I like the room in this tarp, but I do have a hard time taking on/off clothing. I don't have to much of a beef with the head room because I like being able to set up this tarp in the rain withoul trying to keep an inner tent from getting wet.
Regards,
John

randyg45
11-21-2009, 22:51
That might be true with some. If your implying that a tarp is not as good at as a full on tent, I highly disagree.
I do realize that some people never learn how to pitch a shelter. I have seen many experienced AT thru-hikers pitch there tents in the bottom of a depression or gully, when there was good high ground available.

The idea that a free standing double wall dome is more bombproof is just plain wrong. I have seen people ride out gails in comfort inside tarp shelters while people were getting soaked inside their cramped, double wall domes with broken poles.

Every story that I have heard about people being uncomfortable in a tarp is because they didn't pitch it correctly.
It isn't rocket science, but many people choose to never learn or learn when it is too late.

Tarps are not just for the SUL crowd. You can still carry extra weight and still have the flexibility, comfort and space of a tarp.

People like me who grew up camping under tarps, just don't understand why people think that a tent is somehow superior. Tents usually have lot of unessesary weight.

They work so well I'm surprised mountaineers don't use 'em. Say, on Everest, where weight really counts. I mean, in sub-freezing temperatures, with sleet falling and the wind blowing, who wants unnecessary crap like a floor, a frame, or wind-proof walls?

brooklynkayak
11-21-2009, 23:19
They work so well I'm surprised mountaineers don't use 'em. Say, on Everest, where weight really counts. I mean, in sub-freezing temperatures, with sleet falling and the wind blowing, who wants unnecessary crap like a floor, a frame, or wind-proof walls?

Actually pyramid tarps are very popular with mountaineers as they can handle the extreme conditions.
They are better at handling extreme winds than dome shelters and what good is a floor if you are already in a bivy?

Alaskan expeditions often use tarp/bivy combinations as they handle the extremes better without the extra bulk and weight.

From my experience, a pyramid tarp will perform better in extreme conditions than a dome. The dome will flap and flatten while a pyramid will remain relatively calm. I do understand that people take double wall dome freestanding tents into extreme situations, but they do suffer more because of the added weight. sleepless nights and broken tent poles. The stress of extreme weather puts stress on the tent poles in a dome tent, while the pegs take the stress in a pyramid tarp. If a pyramid is pegged well, the tarp will hold up well and will be surprisingly calm in strong winds. A well pegged dome will flatten and flap and put a lot of stress on the tent poles. That is why Hilleberg uses such thick, heavy tent poles on their 4 season dome tents.

I have had a few double wall, fee-standing, dome tents and they all go crazy in gail conditions. A light tipi/pyramid single wall shelter will seem amazingly calm in comparison.

But keep in mind, I am no expert, I only go by what I have observed in the extreme conditions in groups that I have been with.

I sort of think of it like martial arts. If your shelter is setup to deflect the force it will do better, but if it is setup to fight the force it will loose in extreme conditions.

Bulldawg
11-21-2009, 23:25
This tarp vs. tent thing is starting to sound like the hammock vs. tent thing!! Fun!!

brooklynkayak
11-21-2009, 23:32
This tarp vs. tent thing is starting to sound like the hammock vs. tent thing!! Fun!!

Yes. Although I don't hammock, there are definite advantages in backpacking situations, but since I travel in areas with no trees, hammocking is not an option.
Keep an open mind and find the best solution to your requirements.

Hammocks do make a lot of sense on the AT and other backpacking venues.

randyg45
11-21-2009, 23:34
brooklynkayak, I have no experience with tipis; I can see how a round one, especially, might shed a lot of wind. I also, btw, have a spinnaker shelter fery much along the Hut/Spinnshelter lines. I wouldn't dream of taking it above treeline in the Winds, say, for more than about eight months of the year.
I really was talking about tarps....

Bulldawg
11-21-2009, 23:45
Yes. Although I don't hammock, there are definite advantages in backpacking situations, but since I travel in areas with no trees, hammocking is not an option.
Keep an open mind and find the best solution to your requirements.

Hammocks do make a lot of sense on the AT and other backpacking venues.

Yeah, I hammock, don't even really own a backpacking tent. But I recently started experimenting with tarps. In fact, my hammock tarp to be exact. I am thinking that carrying all the extra weight and bulk in the winter to hammock wasn't really worth it. I played around in the yard with the tarp quite a bit and only camped in a tarp for the first time last Saturday night on the AT. It wasn't bad. But all said the weather was perfection. First time I've ever been on the AT with no wind at night and the low was only 43 I think. I'm going to keep experimenting a bit. I might go to a tarp set up in the winter.

brooklynkayak
11-21-2009, 23:52
brooklynkayak, I have no experience with tipis; I can see how a round one, especially, might shed a lot of wind. I also, btw, have a spinnaker shelter fery much along the Hut/Spinnshelter lines. I wouldn't dream of taking it above treeline in the Winds, say, for more than about eight months of the year.
I really was talking about tarps....

I know what you mean about a tarp shelter in a broad term. I know that a flat tarp set up in an open fashion would not be good in extreme conditions, no more that a tent with the fly open would, but when it comes down to it, a tarp is a tent and a tent is a tarp. A tent can handle extreme condition very well, but so can a tarp. It all depends on the shelter and the person using the shelter. The terminology sucks:)

And when it comes down to it, what will male us more attractive to to the opposite sex:-)