View Full Version : Stupid Question (and I got a lot of them)
john gault
11-18-2009, 10:15
Why does N.C. only get credit for 88 miles of AT, while Tenn. gets 293 miles? http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805447/k.46C2/Explore_the_Trail_North_Carolina.htm
Once you’re in the Smokies the trail runs along the length of the state border (N.C./Tenn), until around Hwy 19 E, where it cuts into Tn. Yet, Tn gets listed as having 293 miles vs. N.C’s paltry 88 miles, those 88 miles are from Ga/N.C. border to the border of N.C./Tenn. (shortly after departing Fontana Dam). And despite there being at least one whole section near Hot Springs where you're in N.C.
Other than that the trail seems to be on the state line, so why credit Tn with those miles?
Certainly not a stupid question. Perhaps it has to do with which state is maintaining that section more, or receives more funding for it?
The guy that laid out that section was right footed and going north. :D
neighbor dave
11-18-2009, 14:33
worse than that,
everyone craps on the nc side and gets water on the tenn side:-?
Jester2000
11-18-2009, 15:02
The only thing I can think of is that because the Park Headquarters are located in TN, perhaps all of the miles in the Smokies are considered Tennessee miles.
Cabin Fever
11-18-2009, 15:12
Most places I see recognize the miles as TN/NC and not one or the other including guidebooks and maps. All three Clubs in the area maintain on both sides of the state line.
On the Tennessee link off the link above, it says Spivey Gap is in Tennessee which it is not.
TJ aka Teej
11-18-2009, 15:14
If the trail is right smack-dab on the state line, the corridor is in both states.
Cabin Fever
11-18-2009, 15:17
If the trail is right smack-dab on the state line, the corridor is in both states.
By this logic, the only miles strictly in Tennessee would be from US19E to Damascus and North Carolina would get the few on the Fontana side of the ridgeline in the Smokies.
john gault
11-19-2009, 09:45
In regards to location of clubs in this section.
Smokey Mountains Hiking Club (Based in Knoxville, Tn.) Maintains Wesser @ U.S. 19 to Davenport Gap.
Carolina Mountain Club (Based in Asheville, N.C.) Maintains Davenport Gap to Spivey Gap
Tennessee Eastman Hiking/Canoeing Club (Based in Kingsport, Tn.) Maintains Spivey Gap to Damascus, Va.
You would think that the ATC would allot an additional 93 miles (Davenport Gap to Spivey Gap), which is the approximate mileage maintained by the Carolina Club based in Asheville, N.C.
That would equate to about 200 miles for Tennessee and 181 for North Carolina.
P.S. I realize all guides/maps list this as Tennessee-North Carolina. I was simply asking why the link in my original post (ATC website) allots 293 miles to Tennessee and 88 miles to N.C.
P.P.S If you look at the maps there are some significant areas strictly in N.C. And also the trail goes into Tn not at Hwy 19 E (which I thought), but at Doll Flats. However, it does dip quickly in N.C., just a little past Jones Falls.
Like I said it's a stupid question, but it seems no one knows the answer.:sun
john gault
12-03-2009, 09:52
Since no one knew the answer to my last stupid question I'll ask another.
Why is there a pipe in the tree at the NC/GA border?
It gives the tree something to keep balance with.
kayak karl
12-03-2009, 10:04
Since no one knew the answer to my last stupid question I'll ask another.
Why is there a pipe in the tree at the NC/GA border?
probably from that old fence that runs that whole area. tree grew around it and somebody cut it off.
Jester2000
12-03-2009, 11:09
It's a storage space for cigars for friends behind you who want to smoke one to celebrate their first state line crossing.
It's a storage space for cigars for friends behind you who want to smoke one to celebrate their first state line crossing.Ya know, that's actually a pretty good idea. :D
Jester2000
12-03-2009, 11:11
Ya know, that's actually a pretty good idea. :D
That's what we used it for.
daddytwosticks
12-03-2009, 17:25
Sorry...I broke the faucett of the end. :)
Its for hanging your pack on while you celebrate the awesome achievement of one state down.
Sorry...I broke the faucett of the end. :)
Yeah, There used to be a Spring there.
whisperingwind
12-04-2009, 10:59
When going through Damascus, I had a dayhiker ask me if we thruhikers ever see any bears....???
Personally, on my 2 thrus, I never had. But of course, I could'nt let this one slip by. So I replied, "They join us for dinner each afternoon at a shelter.":)
Why does N.C. only get credit for 88 miles of AT, while Tenn. gets 293 miles? http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805447/k.46C2/Explore_the_Trail_North_Carolina.htm
Once you’re in the Smokies the trail runs along the length of the state border (N.C./Tenn), until around Hwy 19 E, where it cuts into Tn. Yet, Tn gets listed as having 293 miles vs. N.C’s paltry 88 miles, those 88 miles are from Ga/N.C. border to the border of N.C./Tenn. (shortly after departing Fontana Dam). And despite there being at least one whole section near Hot Springs where you're in N.C.
Other than that the trail seems to be on the state line, so why credit Tn with those miles?
The note at the bottom of the NC page says:
Note: This page describes the A.T. between the North Carolina/Georgia border and the southern boundary of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The remaining miles in North Carolina, closely following or on the Tennessee/North Carolina border, are described in the Tennessee (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/tennessee) section.
My guess is that since this page is primarily geared towards newbies, they probably didn't want to confuse people by getting into the whole border thing. As others have pointed out, every other listing the ATC gives counts the two states together.
When I did my Excel spreadsheet for planning our future hikes a couple of years ago, I gave credit to each state for the segments which could be clearly seen on the map as exclusively in one state, and for which endpoints could be found in the Data Book. With those criteria, I came up with the following mileages:
TN: 93.3
NC: 128.0
Too close to call: 161.6
john gault
12-05-2009, 10:40
The note at the bottom of the NC page says:
My guess is that since this page is primarily geared towards newbies, they probably didn't want to confuse people by getting into the whole border thing. As others have pointed out, every other listing the ATC gives counts the two states together.
When I did my Excel spreadsheet for planning our future hikes a couple of years ago, I gave credit to each state for the segments which could be clearly seen on the map as exclusively in one state, and for which endpoints could be found in the Data Book. With those criteria, I came up with the following mileages:
TN: 93.3
NC: 128.0
Too close to call: 161.6
I saw that and the note at the bottom of the Tenn. page reads as follows:
Note: This section describes the A.T. from the Virginia/Tennessee state line south through the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Also see North Carolina (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/northcarolina), since the Trail runs on or near the Tennessee/North Carolina border for approximately 200 miles.
I've never tried and figure out the mileage of each state along the border, but I thought it did seem to have more in N.C. (By looking at my maps). Your mileage breakdown seems to confirm that. If you're saying the answer is that the ATC is just being lazy, than I'll have to agree with your answer.:)
In regards to location of clubs in this section.
Smokey Mountains Hiking Club (Based in Knoxville, Tn.) Maintains Wesser @ U.S. 19 to Davenport Gap.
Carolina Mountain Club (Based in Asheville, N.C.) Maintains Davenport Gap to Spivey Gap
Tennessee Eastman Hiking/Canoeing Club (Based in Kingsport, Tn.) Maintains Spivey Gap to Damascus, Va.
You would think that the ATC would allot an additional 93 miles (Davenport Gap to Spivey Gap), which is the approximate mileage maintained by the Carolina Club based in Asheville, N.C.
That would equate to about 200 miles for Tennessee and 181 for North Carolina.
P.S. I realize all guides/maps list this as Tennessee-North Carolina. I was simply asking why the link in my original post (ATC website) allots 293 miles to Tennessee and 88 miles to N.C.
P.P.S If you look at the maps there are some significant areas strictly in N.C. And also the trail goes into Tn not at Hwy 19 E (which I thought), but at Doll Flats. However, it does dip quickly in N.C., just a little past Jones Falls.
Like I said it's a stupid question, but it seems no one knows the answer.:sun
Hey, I have an idea. Why not ask ATC? You are a member aren't you? But regardless, ATC is a very friendly place. The evidence? They made me an honorary life member after years of undergoing my criticsm. Well, I actually had mostly friendly suggestions about how to do better. You know, things like: How come you don't know how much of the trail is in Tennessee, and how much in North Carolina? I didn't ask precisely that question. Just several equally dumb.
Weary
Why is there a pipe in the tree at the NC/GA border?
What pipe? It was snowing when I went through about the first of May. I didn't see any damn pipe. I hardly noticed the tree. What I did notice was some white birch bark to help kindle my Zip stove. The only decent kindling in the whole state of Georgia.
bloodmountainman
12-05-2009, 19:42
What pipe? It was snowing when I went through about the first of May. I didn't see any damn pipe. I hardly noticed the tree. What I did notice was some white birch bark to help kindle my Zip stove. The only decent kindling in the whole state of Georgia.
Never heard of Fat Lighter? It's on most pines in Georgia.:sun
Send your gripes WRT ATC's website to her. It's not bad and it's always getting better. It's still better than wading through much of what I see posted here. She'd be happy to hear from you if you have something useful to contribute.
One my first thru ten years ago there was a trail register stored in that pipe.
Never heard of Fat Lighter? It's on most pines in Georgia.:sun
Wow! Why don't people tell us these things! I don't remember any mention of "fat lighter" in Wingfoot's guide. Not even in the Companion as it gradually emerged as alleged competition to Wingfoot.
Can you believe this? Never before have Wingfoot, the Companion -- and me --been equally ignorant about an important trail matter.
What is this world coming too? ATTroll. Did you know about "Fat Lighter?" Did you deliberately keep this important message secret?
Weary
The wood you can sometimes find in old stumps that is full of concentrated pine resin. Called “lighter knots” or “fat lighter” by country folk, this resin rich wood will burn with a hot and bright flame even in the rain, if you first cut it into little pieces of kindling to light it. You can identify such fat lighter by the smell and color of the wood when you cut into it. It will smell like pine pitch or tar and is bright yellow or orange inside, often oozing sap. This wood is also much heavier than regular dry wood. It can be found in any forest where there are conifers such as pine, spruce, fir or cedar.
A pine stump of fat lighter wood is loaded with resin, and will light when wet.
http://www.survivalmonkey.com/images/fatlighter2_Large_Web_view.jpg
http://www.survivalmonkey.com/images/burnfatlighter_Large_Web_view.jpg
The wood you can sometimes find in old stumps that is full of concentrated pine resin. Called “lighter knots” or “fat lighter” by country folk, this resin rich wood will burn with a hot and bright flame even in the rain, if you first cut it into little pieces of kindling to light it. You can identify such fat lighter by the smell and color of the wood when you cut into it. It will smell like pine pitch or tar and is bright yellow or orange inside, often oozing sap. This wood is also much heavier than regular dry wood. It can be found in any forest where there are conifers such as pine, spruce, fir or cedar.
A pine stump of fat lighter wood is loaded with resin, and will light when wet.
http://www.survivalmonkey.com/images/fatlighter2_Large_Web_view.jpg
http://www.survivalmonkey.com/images/burnfatlighter_Large_Web_view.jpg
Hmmm. Looks impressive. But it's been decades since i've hiked with anything larger than a pen knife. If I go back to carrying an axe I'll certainly check out "fat wood."
Weary
I If you're saying the answer is that the ATC is just being lazy, than I'll have to agree with your answer.:)
Or else I'm obsessive. ;) I don't think it's lazy; again, they probably don't want to confuse people new to the trail about something which probably isn't of much interest even to most experienced hikers.
Digger'02
12-07-2009, 17:29
YESSS!!! I know the exact reason! finally, a question that I can deffinativly answer. But first, the backstory.
I have been pushing to fix this but somehow come up with roadblocks, I will triumph!
To answer the question: Why does NC only get credit for 88 miles of trail and not the miles that are on the Tenn/NC boarder?
Answer: Because the longtime editor of the databook was from Knoxville
Booyah! I know this is the reason because I got it from the most reliable source of trail knowledge south of Harpers Ferry.
Jack Tarlin
12-07-2009, 17:31
And who would that be, just out of curiousity?
Jack Tarlin
12-07-2009, 17:33
Incidentally, I was under the impression that the long-time editor of the Data Book, Daniel Chazin, was from New Jersey.
Maybe it began with a northbound through hiker who had a hard time dealing with the concept and simply refused in his or her own mind to leave Tennessee once he or she crossed the line for the 1st time.
It's probably one of the least known but most significant reasons for through hikers quitting before Virginia. Just someone trying to help.;)
Digger'02
12-07-2009, 17:54
Ohhh! good catch! in my hasty exitement I mistyped....what me meant to say was the editor of the NC/Tennessee Guidebook, a valuable but underused resource. Not the Databook, who you correctly note is edited by Mr Chazin.
I'll refrain from mentioning the name of the editor because he is a pretty awesome dude and I would hate for him to get online flamed.
And its either Knoxville or Kingsport I can't remember.
Digger'02
12-07-2009, 17:55
but like I said, I have this on pretty good authority...
Jack Tarlin
12-07-2009, 20:19
Whom you described as "the most reliable source of Trail knowledge south of Harpers Ferry."
So who is this?
Just wondering.
max patch
12-07-2009, 20:37
I'll refrain from mentioning the name of the editor because he is a pretty awesome dude and I would hate for him to get online flamed.
Well...that shouldn't be too difficult to figger out. Let me chew on it a bit. :)
Would it be this guy? :D
http://www.myastrologybook.com/Hermes-Mercury-250x540.jpg
Digger'02
12-08-2009, 10:22
Chew indeed sir, chew indeed.
Well Jack, this is fun. Who do you think might have more trail knowledge than you? The list is short of folks that I would even consider, and maybe I am wrong but I bet you can guess.
Digger'02
12-08-2009, 11:25
that was mean. I'll PM you.
Jack Tarlin
12-08-2009, 14:51
I actually think Warren Doyle probably knows the Trail as well as anyone in the South, tho Seiko would be on my list, too, also Lone Wolf, Mala, and Pirate who all have accumulated crazy miles in the South. For the area around Franklin, Ron Haven's knowledge is pretty encyclopedic; Morgan Somerville would be on the list, too. From Roan Mt. to Damascus I'd put Bob Peoples and some of his friends from the Tennessee Eastman Hiking Club on the list, too; some of these guys have been maintaining that part of the Trail for fifty years!!
mweinstone
12-08-2009, 15:04
their are things in heaven and jack that only the trail knows deep in the south
as their are bottles on the wall to count, so are the hours of our hitchike.
like gravel in my undys,so are the days of our hikes
chicken samitch you say,...their is one, johnney thunder knows more about chicken samich than any trash alive.
Digger'02
12-08-2009, 17:19
Agreed, that is an extensive list. Collins was one of the guys to work on the first Roan Relo, back in the fifties and I have met a couple of guys who worked on the AT before WWII. Thats nuts.
Sommerville knows not only the trail, but who built it, where it was and what was there before. Hearing him talk about the open areas of the 60's is nuts especially around Sams gap.
Doyle for my money knows the physcial trail itself as good as anyone. Although I only have met him once.
Being around people who know the AT that well is pretty special.