View Full Version : Baxter Park winter season
Baxter Park opened this week for the winter season with some good news. The antiquated rules that governed winter use in past years have been updated and simplified.
The big change is that park rangers no longer make key safety decisions. They are now left mostly to the judgments of the users. You still need a permit for overnight camping. But the decision on such key issues as weather conditions rests with the users, not the rangers. I welcome the changes.
For an analysis by Carey Kish, Maine's leading outdoor writer, open:
http://maineoutdoorjournal.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=297376&ac=Outdoors
You can also check out the technical details at:
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/camping/win_procedures.html
Weary
warraghiyagey
12-02-2009, 14:12
Baxter Park never closed. . . . :-?
The Solemates
12-02-2009, 14:35
I agree with the new rule. But I also think that those who enter at their own risk should pay for their exit if needed.
warraghiyagey
12-02-2009, 14:38
I agree with the new rule. But I also think that those who enter at their own risk should pay for their exit if needed.
That 'is' the new rule . . . . :-?
canoehead
12-02-2009, 14:53
This is a great link....Can't wait
http://neice.com/2009/11/change-in-katahdin-winter-rules/
Baxter Park never closed. . . . :-?
The park has remained open for day visitors. Camping ended on October 15. Camping reopened on Dec. 1.
warraghiyagey
12-02-2009, 15:33
Baxter Park opened this week for the winter season with some good news.
Weary
Baxter Park never closed. . . . :-?
The park has remained open for day visitors. Camping ended on October 15. Camping reopened on Dec. 1.
Good. . . you're caught up. . . .
bulldog49
12-02-2009, 15:57
"We want the users to make the judgment call. It's a leadership decision," said Hoekwater. "We'll make a solid recommendation, but we won't keep you from going out."
My,my. What a novel concept! Letting people actually think for themselves rather than have a beaurocrat do it for them. :eek:
That critter has teeth on both ends. Maybe he thought he'd rather be bitten by the other for a while.
Good. . . you're caught up. . . .
warraghiyagey, have you ever thought about actually hiking.
warraghiyagey
12-02-2009, 22:36
warraghiyagey, have you ever thought about actually hiking.
That would actually be humorous if you knew anything about me. . . time for your nap weary. . . .
bigmac_in
12-02-2009, 22:39
Warrghy hikes, sometimes he even keeps his pants on.
I agree with the new rule. But I also think that those who enter at their own risk should pay for their exit if needed.
Couldn't agree more.
That would actually be humorous if you knew anything about me. . . . . . .
That's the problem. I admit that I only rarely read your posts these days. But I don't recall that many of the 10,000 plus warraghiyagey posts have told us much about trails.
Well, I think you did tell us that you poke at trail markers with a hiking stick. Did you find that exciting?
Weary
DawnTreader
12-03-2009, 20:02
weary..
we both know that lot's of "enthusiasts" who post on this site don't hike.. thats part of the fun.... Wharrigiyaghi isn't one of these.....
"That's the problem. I admit that I only rarely read your posts these days. But I don't recall that many of the 10,000 plus warraghiyagey posts have told us much about trails." If you have any questions about the trails in New England, I'm sure Warrigiyaghi can answer them for you, if you ask nicely...:)
think its kinda rude to call out people on the amount of hiking they do or don't do..
warraghiyagey
12-03-2009, 20:12
The Dude abides. . . . :sun:sun:sun
weary..
we both know that lot's of "enthusiasts" who post on this site don't hike.. thats part of the fun.... Wharrigiyaghi isn't one of these.....
"That's the problem. I admit that I only rarely read your posts these days. But I don't recall that many of the 10,000 plus warraghiyagey posts have told us much about trails." If you have any questions about the trails in New England, I'm sure Warrigiyaghi can answer them for you, if you ask nicely...:)
think its kinda rude to call out people on the amount of hiking they do or don't do..
Well, White Blaze is a trails site, as folks keep telling me when I suggest that it should be broadened to reflect the fact that matters other than walking and maintaining, impact trails.
I sort of figured that if after 10,000 plus posts, someone had not offered me much of a clue as to what, or even, if ever, he had actually walked, it was not rude to ask a question about his hiking experience. Especially, since he had just made a snide remark about my age. I thought that telling me "now go back to your nap" a bit rude also, didn't you.
However, I'm not in a mood at the moment to argue about such things. I just came from a meeting of Restore: The North Woods, a group promoting a 3 million acre National Park in Maine. The speaker told again the saga of the town of Hastings on the Maine-New Hampshire border in the Whites, which was created out of the wilderness in the late 1800s, prospered as a town for a few decades, and then died when the last of the wild forest had been clearcut.
A half century later the forest had returned, and to a wildness so impressive that it is now a designated federal wilderness. It was a well documented talk, illustrated by dozens of slides, both ancient and new. But I couldn't help but think about all the news articles I had written over the years that quoted people as saying "development is forever."
But I wasn't really concerned about telling lies to my readers all those years. I already knew that. Since retiring almost two decades ago I've spent thousands of hours clearing blowdowns, cutting brush, and building bog bridges, on what were once developed farm fields.
What really pleased me at this most recent meeting -- the third night meeting this week -- was a guy who had contributed some articles to the several newsletters I still produce. He came up and said, "I know you are 80-years-old, but when I look at you, and talk to you, I see a young man."
Yes. I know. He is FOS. But it was nicer to hear than, Wharrigiyaghi's "now go return to your nap."
Weary
DawnTreader
12-05-2009, 23:29
Weary,
What do you believe are the chances that the North woods will eventually become protected by the feds?? Are there enough people fighting for this right now? Please provide some links to literature on this subject as I am very interested. Also, do you have any idea what is going to be done with the land adjacent to Sucess Pond Road in the Mahoosucs? Who will manage it, and when will they start???
p.s.
Don't ever forget how much tone is lost over the internet. . .
now its time for my nap...
Weary,
What do you believe are the chances that the North woods will eventually become protected by the feds?? Are there enough people fighting for this right now? Please provide some links to literature on this subject as I am very interested. Also, do you have any idea what is going to be done with the land adjacent to Sucess Pond Road in the Mahoosucs? Who will manage it, and when will they start???
p.s.
Don't ever forget how much tone is lost over the internet. . .
now its time for my nap...
A complete answer would take a book. The group pushing the effort is Restore the North Woods, which has offices in Maine and Massachusetts:
Open: http://www.restore.org/index_flash.html
But a lot is happening. 40 years ago, the 200,000 acre Baxter Park was the only large parcel of public land in the area. Then 400,000 acres of scattered public reserved lands -- lands preserved when Maine sold the 6 million acre public domain it had inherited from Massachusetts in the first decades of statehood -- were recovered after a century of neglect.
25 years ago these scattered, mostly thousand acre parcels were swapped for large blocks of land, mostly in the mountains.
A bit later, the paper companies put all their 12 million acres on the market. Developers got most of it, but The Nature Conservancy bought several 50,000 acre and larger blocks. AMC now owns 67,000 acres. Less well known conservation groups picked up additional acreage. The state bought some acreage and purchased easements that restrict development on a million or so acres.
This is a long winded way of suggesting that a nucleus for a National Park has already been created. Easements don't provide much protection from bad forest practices, but they do take away chances for big development profits, making eventual purchase by the federal government much cheaper.
So, is a big National Park or Forest likely? Probably not quickly. But I think eventually it will happen. Most polls show that the Maine public favors protection. Most politicians of both parties are opposed.
Restore had its 15th annual get together at the Maine Patagonia Store on Thursday. About 30 or so people showed up. All were dedicated advocates of federal intervention, though part of the draw was Patagonia's practice of offering door prizes of merchandise it has trouble selling to half or more of the attendees. I won a $150 "technical" jacket made out of recycled plastic soda bottles. It's an amazingly warm, very comfortable, 8 ounce jacket in a rather ugly red.
I've been busy working on the preservation of the undeveloped land in the "high peaks" region around Saddleback and haven't paid much attention to Mahoosuc efforts. The Maine portion of the ridgeline there was protected by the public lot swaps of 25 years ago.
Weary www.matlt.org
Cookerhiker
12-07-2009, 08:08
So what's the X-Country skiing like? Per the article, the roads in the Park aren't plowed but what about the road to the Park entrance? If one just wants to ski for a day trip, is it feasible to park outside the Park and ski in on the road?
So what's the X-Country skiing like? Per the article, the roads in the Park aren't plowed but what about the road to the Park entrance? If one just wants to ski for a day trip, is it feasible to park outside the Park and ski in on the road?
I was hoping TJ would chime in because it's been a while since my last winter visit. General plowing of the road to the park was stopped a couple of decades or more ago.
Since then most winter hikers have used the private "Golden Road" which is the primary winter log hauling road for that part of Maine. A parking turnout used to be kept plowed near the park, allowing skiers, snowshoers, and winter climbers relatively easy access. But policies change. The park has a new director. The private Golden Road owners have gone through several iterations in recent years. I don't know the current practice.
But the Golden Road runs by the Abol Bridge Store. The park boundary and the AT are just a few yards up the road, so day trip cross country skiing access is easy, regardless.
The lack of plowing does add extra miles for those who want to climb Katahdin from Chimney Pond, the favorite winter trailhead.
Weary
DawnTreader
12-08-2009, 14:13
thanks for the info Weary... very interesting.. keep up the good work
Most polls show that the Maine public favors protection. Most politicians of both parties are opposed.
Well, I'd agree that most folks in Maine who don't actually live near the land that would be protected are in favor of this. Although I don't have any data to back this up, my guess is that support would come from folks in Portland, etc., and not from people in Aroostook County and the parts of Somerset, Penobscot, Piscataquis, and other counties that might be impacted.
I'd suggest, without much evidence, that if the decision was left to those who live in the areas that would be most affected by a national park or something similar, this sort of thing wouldn't have much of a chance of happening.
There's certainly a balance to be achieved here.
Well, I'd agree that most folks in Maine who don't actually live near the land that would be protected are in favor of this. Although I don't have any data to back this up, my guess is that support would come from folks in Portland, etc., and not from people in Aroostook County and the parts of Somerset, Penobscot, Piscataquis, and other counties that might be impacted.
I'd suggest, without much evidence, that if the decision was left to those who live in the areas that would be most affected by a national park or something similar, this sort of thing wouldn't have much of a chance of happening.
There's certainly a balance to be achieved here.
Nobody likes change -- especially change near them. And it's true that the woods and paper industries supported a lot of people with relatively good paying jobs for a long time. But all the corporate owners of the forest have long since sold most of their holdings. That tells me that they know their industry has only a marginal future here.
People living in the rural counties dream that the past will return. But the future will not be forest jobs. It will be either as maids and maintainers of condominium villages, or working in protected lands.
Sadly, uneducated people tend to vote against their own best interests. Well, come to think about it, so do many educated people. I lament the loss of the forest industry. The industry made possible a reasonably wild trail through Maine. But the wild trail is rapidly disappearing. Only a few conservation buyers and the efforts of the state has stemmed the complete destruction of the trail environment in this state.
The best alternative for us who love wild places is a large Maine Woods National Park, with a large National Forest component.
Weary
Nobody likes change -- especially change near them. And it's true that the woods and paper industries supported a lot of people with relatively good paying jobs for a long time. But all the corporate owners of the forest have long since sold most of their holdings. That tells me that they know their industry has only a marginal future here.
People living in the rural counties dream that the past will return. But the future will not be forest jobs. It will be either as maids and maintainers of condominium villages, or working in protected lands.
Sadly, uneducated people tend to vote against their own best interests. Well, come to think about it, so do many educated people. I lament the loss of the forest industry. The industry made possible a reasonably wild trail through Maine. But the wild trail is rapidly disappearing. Only a few conservation buyers and the efforts of the state has stemmed the complete destruction of the trail environment in this state.
The best alternative for us who love wild places is a large Maine Woods National Park, with a large National Forest component.
Weary
I think there's more to it than that. While it's scary to think about the landowners' ability to shut down access to land at the drop of a hat, as far as access is concerned, folks in the northern part of the state have it pretty good right now and have for years.
I believe there are many people who worry about how a national park could limit access to the land for traditional activities like snowmobiling and hunting. You have to convince people that trading forest industry jobs (though declining as you pointed out) and good access to the land for a national park has strong benefit.
Many people are concerned about access. There are many people who are skeptical about the economic benefits of a national park, too. Development pressures are minimal in the northern part of the state, so it's hard to convince people that a national park would be a benefit. I certainly can't blame people for thinking this way.
I think there's more to it than that. While it's scary to think about the landowners' ability to shut down access to land at the drop of a hat, as far as access is concerned, folks in the northern part of the state have it pretty good right now and have for years.
I believe there are many people who worry about how a national park could limit access to the land for traditional activities like snowmobiling and hunting. You have to convince people that trading forest industry jobs (though declining as you pointed out) and good access to the land for a national park has strong benefit.
Many people are concerned about access. There are many people who are skeptical about the economic benefits of a national park, too. Development pressures are minimal in the northern part of the state, so it's hard to convince people that a national park would be a benefit. I certainly can't blame people for thinking this way.
There is no doubt that the handful of individuals, families and corporations who have owned two-thirds of Maine for many, many decades have been liberal in allowing public access. But we are now in transition. I doubt if developers -- mostly from the south -- who have bought all this land will be so open. Certainly the owner groups that will be set up to manage the common land in 20 thousand acre developments won't be.
I've watched this for decades. 50 years ago "no tresspassing" signs were rare in my town. NOw they are everywhere. Now mostly only the few scraps that the state, our town land trust and other environmental groups have managed to protect remain available to the public.
Weary
The destination:
http://www.katahdincam.com/