View Full Version : Need help with stealth camping (thick underbrush?)
There is lots of info on stealth camping and it is talked about everywhere. However, most of the articles about it I've found online say something like, "find a clear spot, set up your tent, go to sleep". Then they show a picture of a beautiful site with no underbrush. Yeah, right.
I hike mostly in MA, NH and ME, and have a lot of trouble with stealthing because of all the undergrowth. I use a tarp so all I really need is a 7x3 foot area I can lay down my ground sheet on, but that is often hard to find. Or at least, a spot like that is impossible to spot from the trail. Nevermind that it should be not in valley where I'll get flooded, etc.
How do you go about finding a stealth spot when there is thick underbrush all around? Do you just judge the terrain you can see from the trail and say, "I bet I'll be able to find a spot if I go off that way", and then start walking off into the woods in search of a spot?
Is it frequently necessary to clear away a few plants to make enough room to set up? Tents with bathtub floors can have a pretty big footprint, and I wouldn't feel good about putting my tent down on a bunch of small, thorny plants that could put holes in the bottom.
johnnyblisters
12-22-2009, 00:48
As a ridgerunner in that area, I suggest camping at designated campsites which are designed to decrease the amount of environmental impact in such a popular recreation area...
But if you find yourself in between sites at dusk and desperate to set up camp, my advise is to take your time finding an suitable site.
lazy river road
12-22-2009, 00:55
Use a Hammock :)
johnnyblisters
12-22-2009, 00:56
Darn, I pressed enter by accident and can't figure out how to edit my post!
What I was getting at was that if we choose to stealth camp, we must do so responsibly. Take your safety, environment, and other hikers into consideration when choosing a site. It is very possible in your area to "stealth" camp, but if the place looks suitable for your tent more than likely someone else has already "stealthed" there. Watch out for "stealth" Jersey tulips...
white_russian
12-22-2009, 07:25
This is one of the main reasons why I carry a hammock in New England.
modiyooch
12-22-2009, 07:38
I don't like shelters, so most of my camping has been stealth. I hike alone, alot, so most of my camping has not been at designated campsites. I usually can find a spot. Alot of times it is during the last rays of sunlight.
mweinstone
12-22-2009, 07:58
take enough time to find a spot but also be sure what your looking for. worst case senario im looking for a level spot on tons of huge sticker bushes i have to slaughter then rip all my crap on and leave in the morning pissed and bloody. but hey, thems the breaks if i waited to long to start looking and diddnt decide what to do soon enough. bad judgement destroys the ecosystem as much as anything. we humans make one mistake and it leads to more. heres the senario.
passing the shelter back there for whatever reason....
hiker finds himself at dusk for whatever reason...........
sights to pitch absent for whatever reason........
cold wind blows for whatever reason.........
musels ach, judgement wains,sticker bushes begin to look softer...........
extra miles walked looking for spot get too tireing.........
dinner calls,............
plop! welcome to hotel stick ya.rip ya and bleed ya! yeah!
mweinstone
12-22-2009, 08:01
and in the morning,... around the corner is the campsight from heven...allways!
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 08:30
take enough time to find a spot but also be sure what your looking for. worst case senario im looking for a level spot on tons of huge sticker bushes i have to slaughter then rip all my crap on and leave in the morning pissed and bloody. but hey, thems the breaks if i waited to long to start looking and diddnt decide what to do soon enough. bad judgement destroys the ecosystem as much as anything. we humans make one mistake and it leads to more. heres the senario.
passing the shelter back there for whatever reason....
hiker finds himself at dusk for whatever reason...........
sights to pitch absent for whatever reason........
cold wind blows for whatever reason.........
musels ach, judgement wains,sticker bushes begin to look softer...........
extra miles walked looking for spot get too tireing.........
dinner calls,............
plop! welcome to hotel stick ya.rip ya and bleed ya! yeah!
Wow!! That made total sense. . . . :sun:sun . . . nice work Matty. . . .
Many Walks
12-22-2009, 10:08
and in the morning,... around the corner is the campsight from heven...allways!
Ain't that the truth. Don't know how many times we've pulled off for a spot that worked ok, then in the morning we'd walk .1 mi right by a perfect spot. That's happened so many times it's comical!
Some places it would be perfectly legal to bed down right in the middle of the trail and preferable to the alternatives too, provided it's nearly or already dark and one breaks camp at 1st light.
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 10:25
Did he post something like bed down right in the middle of the trail? If he did, I'd like to point out some places it's perfectly legal and would preferable to the alternatives.
Not at all, his post wasn't the least bit objectionable. . . . I just don't get the power play here sometimes. . . .
sasquatch2014
12-22-2009, 10:27
These days I too am a hammock camper. When I did a lot of Cowboy camping out in the Big Horns of Wyoming I would often look for a good brushy spot I liked knowing that I would have some wind protection and would more than likely not in in some type of game path. If you find a downed tree that has some snags holding it up a bit off the ground this helps with a tarp to make a quick shelter. Look at the brush for what it can provide not what it keeps you from doing.
Be one with the brush grasshopper.
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 10:29
These days I too am a hammock camper. When I did a lot of Cowboy camping out in the Big Horns of Wyoming I would often look for a good brushy spot I liked knowing that I would have some wind protection and would more than likely not in in some type of game path. If you find a downed tree that has some snags holding it up a bit off the ground this helps with a tarp to make a quick shelter. Look at the brush for what it can provide not what it keeps you from doing.
Be one with the brush grasshopper.
Another perfectly good post. . .:) . . . hope it also doesn't get deleted. . . :-?
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 10:34
I think that if a post is deleted a placeholder post should be left there with the Mod stating why in their mind they felt the post need to be deleted.
Agreed. . . . with some I understand. . . I've had quite a few deleted and I always understood why. . . this one - and my post stating that Matty had made perfect sense - were also deleted. . . . Definitely requires a public expanation of what could have possibly been objectionable about his post. . . . ponderous, really . . . . :-?:confused:
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 10:36
And magically, they are back. . . good work!!:sun:sun:sun
Blissful
12-22-2009, 11:26
I think people get confused about the term "stealthing". To me, "stealth" camping is camping in an area that would be considered illegal (going against NPS rules or other places where camping is prohibited) or places not normally deemed for camping (by certain towns, in someone's backyard, etc). Just finding a campsite for the night in the woods is not stealthing. But you should practice LNT.
The Solemates
12-22-2009, 12:16
I think people get confused about the term "stealthing". To me, "stealth" camping is camping in an area that would be considered illegal (going against NPS rules or other places where camping is prohibited) or places not normally deemed for camping (by certain towns, in someone's backyard, etc). Just finding a campsite for the night in the woods is not stealthing. But you should practice LNT.
yep.
we hardly ever set up at an "official" site, but its not 'stealthing'.
Jombo22, in MA, NH, and ME look for tall pines. The understory is not as thick and the space can be relatively flat.
Also when hiking on sidehills you can often spot what I will call a "bench", a flat space on a ridge where leaves like to gather and cut down on the understory growth.
Another note, when I realized that I sleep in a chair a lot while drunk I figured that perhaps I do not need such a perfectly level spot to sleep on in the woods.
It seems like you guys generally don't have too much trouble finding spots.... What areas are you hiking in? Does New England just tend to have more dense underbrush than the rest of the trail?
Nobody really addressed the main point of my original post (except for the guys who recommend hammocks.... That would certainly solve the problem!). The biggest problem I have with "stealthing" is that I can never find a spot that is completely clear of little plants popping up. I imagine this must be an even bigger problem for people who use tents as those need an even bigger clear area.
Do you guys often find perfectly clear sites to set up, or do you find yourself putting your ground sheet down on top of small (flexible so they don't rip holes) plants a lot of the time?
Jombo22, in MA, NH, and ME look for tall pines. The understory is not as thick and the space can be relatively flat.
Also when hiking on sidehills you can often spot what I will call a "bench", a flat space on a ridge where leaves like to gather and cut down on the understory growth.
Another note, when I realized that I sleep in a chair a lot while drunk I figured that perhaps I do not need such a perfectly level spot to sleep on in the woods.
Thanks, this was exactly the sort of advice I was looking for!
I will keep my eyes out for "benches" next time I'm out.
It would be desirable to refrain from using the term stealth in its various forms in so many different ways conveying so many different things. What we end up with is confusion or misunderstandings.
Some people find these misinterpretations amusing, but they don't help those who come here seeking assistance.
It seems like you guys generally don't have too much trouble finding spots.
You shouldn't experience difficulty finding sites used by others before you where it's permitted since most hike similar distances and nearly all stop at some locations which then tends to heavily influence what follows.
Does New England just tend to have more dense underbrush than the rest of the trail?
I wouldn't make that generalization. You'll find less where the canopy is more mature and less light is available at ground level.
The biggest problem I have with "stealthing" is that I can never find a spot that is completely clear of little plants popping up. I imagine this must be an even bigger problem for people who use tents as those need an even bigger clear area.
Your 1st preference should be for sites which have already been established rather than establishing new sites. It saves time and reduces your impacts.
Thanks, this was exactly the sort of advice I was looking for!
Try walking along old road beds or abandoned railroad right-of-ways or towpaths crossed by the AT. You can cover a lot of ground in a short time and will cause less impact in the course of your search.
I post in support of what Blissful and The Solemates suggest.
It would be desireable to refrain from using the term stealth in its various forms in so many different ways conveying so many different things. What we end up with is confusion or misunderstandings.
Some people find these misinterpretations amusing, but they don't help those who come here seeking assistance.
My bad, I was under the impression that the term "stealth" applied to any camping outside of the designated campsites/shelters.
And obviously we all strive to apply LNT as much as possible, whether at a designated campsite or not.
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 13:04
I think people get confused about the term "stealthing". To me, "stealth" camping is camping in an area that would be considered illegal (going against NPS rules or other places where camping is prohibited) or places not normally deemed for camping (by certain towns, in someone's backyard, etc). Just finding a campsite for the night in the woods is not stealthing. But you should practice LNT.
Agreed so far as finding a spot and doing your best to leave it as it was. . . . parsing over definitions of stealth or any other hiking term here generally heads down an uppleasant road. . . we all know what the original post meant and you're right about how to find a good place to camp for the night. . . :sun
Try walking along old roadbeds or abandoned railroad right-of-ways or towpaths crossed by the AT. You can cover a lot of ground in a short time and will cause less impact in the course of your search.
That's a great idea. Probably much better than crashing off into the woods in hopes of finding a spot.
It helps with site selection to carry maps with contour lines. You'll see those benches and other potential sites on your maps long before you get to them.
I was under the impression the term "stealth" applied to any camping outside of the designated campsites/shelters.
The generic term preferred by ATC and resource managers is dispersed camping. It does not carry with it the same negative connotations or implications and avoids possible misunderstandings. Refer to ATC's Camping & Shelters (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805485/k.598A/Camping_and_Shelters.htm) to see an example of usage and for more information.
Parsing over definitions of stealth or any other hiking term here generally heads down an unpleasant road. . .
True and even if were to agree on the use of terminology here, those terms will likely continue to be used in other ways elsewhere. Maybe the best we can hope for is to realize some terms have more than one meaning and to try to be clear about what we wish to communicate when we use those terms.
warraghiyagey
12-22-2009, 13:41
My bad, I was under the impression that the term "stealth" applied to any camping outside of the designated campsites/shelters.
And obviously we all strive to apply LNT as much as possible, whether at a designated campsite or not.
No aplogies necessary . . . :sun . . . stealth means what you know it to mean. . . . do it your way. . . :)
Ox97GaMe
12-22-2009, 14:15
I have never had too much trouble finding a stealth campsite in the Whites. Sometimes, they werent the most comfortable, but they were always sufficient. I also do quite a bit of hiking in the Smokies and have had reason to stealth camp there as well. But, in the Smokies, it is a whole lot easier to find soft, level areas to camp when between shelters or designated campsites.
Graywolf
12-22-2009, 15:43
you are right about sites that are about Stealthcamping..Some to me are just "trash sites" IMO...Here is a good site for you to check...
www.kenkifer.com (http://www.kenkifer.com)
Ken Kifer lived almost entirely on his bicycle and lived in the mountains of Alabama..He toured extesively around he world and even some backpacking including an AT Thru... His site is mostly on bicycle touring, but I feel it applies to backpackers too..If you can stealth with a bike you can most assuredly stealth on foot..
He even has a long article on LNT principles which he applied to all of his daily living..
His section on Stealthing will give you alot of info about where and how to choose a site and how he chooses a site..Including pictures with underbrush
Graywolf
I had actually stumbled across some info on Ken as I was researching stealthing on Google. Sounds like he was a great guy.
I found some great info on his site. I didn't find a specific LNT article though, could you provide a direct link?
I found this article to be very very helpful: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/camping.htm
Here's a highlight about finding "stealth" sites:
But now, riding along, I see a favorable area. There's woods on both sides, no houses near, and the land is high and dry (I carry enough water and avoid low sites to avoid wet ground and/or mosquitoes). Looking back into the woods on either side, something the motorists can't do, I notice that the trees are of reasonable size, and that the land on the left is higher. It's a plus if there is no place to even stop a car; certainly, I avoid a frequently used pull-off.
The size and spacing of the trees is an important indication that can be seen from the road. If the trees are all very small and widely spaced, the "woods" will be a weed field. If they are small and tightly spaced, I will have to camp like a hobbit. If they are large, the open spaces will be wide and handsome. In fact, the size of the trees often determines how far from the road I'll camp, since I want to be back far enough to not be visible and since small trees and thick growth with not only hide me quicker but will also make traveling back into the woods more difficult. Of course, traveling at 15 mph, I can also look back into the woods and see details that a 55 mph motorist can not.
Whether the land is higher or lower than the road also has some importance. I don't want to be seen, and it is easier for a passenger to see deep into the woods from above than from below. Occasionally, I will camp on a bluff, hill, or road cut that gives me a balcony on the night sky yet allows me to be invisible from below.
I also love Ken's notes on Walden, and had actually stumbled across those several years ago!
Cookerhiker
12-22-2009, 16:24
Darn, I pressed enter by accident and can't figure out how to edit my post!......
Here's (http://www.whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=donating_member) how you can edit your post
Graywolf
12-22-2009, 16:45
I had actually stumbled across some info on Ken as I was researching stealthing on Google. Sounds like he was a great guy.
I found some great info on his site. I didn't find a specific LNT article though, could you provide a direct link?
I found this article to be very very helpful: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/camping.htm
Here's a highlight about finding "stealth" sites:
I'm bad.. I read alot of touring sites so I got them confused..The article I was talking about is on crazyguyonabike..
Heres the link:
www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=RrzKj&doc_id=1385&v=Lz (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=RrzKj&doc_id=1385&v=Lz)
Hope this helps..It's a lengthy article but very informative..The site is huge so you can also find other information, just look around..
The article also discusses hammocks too..
Graywolf
Graywolf
12-22-2009, 16:48
I also love Ken's notes on Walden, and had actually stumbled across those several years ago!
Ken was a big Thoreu fan..His articles and his writings show it..
I'm happy they caught the guy that hit him..
Graywolf
There are times When I need to camp in un-established sites, at first I had issues; never could find a decent site close to the trail because of the undergrowth that seems to like growing close to established trails. But after a few years I seem to be able to find them easily now. i so wish I could tell you what I look for, but I don't consciously know. I think it is a combination of subtle hints like: terrain, plant type, canopy (the trees), etc.
I learned, I guess, from looking for suitable sites. Which means just picking likely looking sites & trudging through the brush, over & over & over again. I have often followed "game trails" to stellar sites. Just look for faint trails & go for it.
As I now hammock, I am a bit less picky about ground cover (anything less than 1' is "Clear") & level ground is not needed at all.
modiyooch
12-22-2009, 20:19
I think people get confused about the term "stealthing". To me, "stealth" camping is camping in an area that would be considered illegal (going against NPS rules or other places where camping is prohibited) or places not normally deemed for camping (by certain towns, in someone's backyard, etc). Just finding a campsite for the night in the woods is not stealthing. But you should practice LNT.I guess I used the term incorrectly in my post. I dont' stealth camp. I rationalize and justify all my campsites. For the most part, I hike to dusk and I'm up at dawn.
Except for camping near roads I refuse to do, I have thought of "stealth" camping as discreet camping using subtle colors only for low-impact, visually, and of course using Leave No Trace principles, and so, I have thought of "stealth" camping as more noble and participating in my natural surroundings, partaking of the hiking and camping experience, more fully, than staying with the car campers or the hoards from big box stores, hiking clubs or horse outfitters.
Unless the National Park, or there are no "back country permits" or I need a permit for "wilderness camping" on "unimproved campsites" with the approval of the ranger, because he saw my gear, then, I "stealth" camp out of preference.
I like to inquire of the ranger and staff rangers about trails, side trails, special features not to miss, sights, little waterfalls, pictographs, hazards and if camping out of campsites is permissible. I have even packed a kayak-sized U.S. Forest Service and BLM approved "river toilet" so I could "primitive" camp edges of Arizona desert.
GrubbyJohn
12-23-2009, 14:42
and in the morning,... around the corner is the campsight from heven...allways!
same here. when my buddy and i are ready to make camp we look around find a nice spot then we move up trail 500 feet and always find that camp site from heaven.... never fails......................................:banana
I tried to find a picture online, but I couldn't locate it.
It shows a tarp set up over some small spruce trees (scrub) such as you might find in the mountains in New England. I never thought of that myself.
Tinker, that sounds like a great setup.
I met a man who sleeps outdoors full time. He said there is more oxygen under the greenery.
It makes sense, because plants use CO2 and make O2.
I worried about him, but he was healthy.
Tarp for hard rain, and sleeping in a bivy under a canopy of spruce boughs sounds lovely.
I tried to find a picture online, but I couldn't locate it.
It shows a tarp set up over some small spruce trees (scrub) such as you might find in the mountains in New England. I never thought of that myself.
That is definitely one advantage of a tarp. My tarp is 8'x10', but that doesn't mean I need an 8x10 clearing to set it up because it doesn't have a bathtub floor like a tent.
The problem, for me, is that I still need some clear space to put down my bug bivy / ground sheet. I also worry about small plants towards the edges of where I put up my tarp - I don't want them poking holes through it!
There has been a lot of great info thrown around here, and I feel pretty confident I'll have a better handle on the art of campsite selection/stealth camping once the snow clears away this Spring.
peakbagger
12-24-2009, 08:06
My experience in Northern NH and Maine is that usable sites are very rare once you get into the high elevation spruce/fir band that inevitably exists along the ridge line. If there is a flat spot big enough for a tent, its either bare rock or a low spot where water will either pool up or run through. If you are lucky, on occasion the trees get mature enough and the canopy thick enough in sheltered spots to find a spot. The sites on the Jewell trail just north of the summit of Mt Washington are like that. Generally along the AT in NH, if there is a sustained stretch of above treeline, there are usually some bootleg sites just before the trail breaks out of the woods (usually just before the Alpine Zone signs). These sites are usually right off the trail. If you are in designated wilderness areas, the 200 foot rule applies and if you can see the site from the trail, its too close.
The far more preferable method is to plan to camp at lower elevations outside of the fir spruce band. If you can get into the white birch/maple zone or the more mature softwoods, generally finding a flat spot isnt an issue and the ground is usually a lot softer with the duff from the needles or leaves. The usual rule of thumb is that the spruce fir band stretches down lower on the mountain on the north face than the south face so factor that in accordingly. Obviously using a topo map and looking at contours and shading is another good way of predicting where you have some good chances.
Tipi Walter
12-24-2009, 13:52
Some places it would be perfectly legal to bed down right in the middle of the trail and preferable to the alternatives too, provided it's nearly or already dark and one breaks camp at 1st light.
I would never camp right on the trail. Night hikers are out and about all thru the year and you never know who'll trip over you.
I think people get confused about the term "stealthing". To me, "stealth" camping is camping in an area that would be considered illegal (going against NPS rules or other places where camping is prohibited) or places not normally deemed for camping (by certain towns, in someone's backyard, etc). Just finding a campsite for the night in the woods is not stealthing. But you should practice LNT.
Total agreement.
Jombo22, in MA, NH, and ME look for tall pines. The understory is not as thick and the space can be relatively flat.
Also when hiking on sidehills you can often spot what I will call a "bench", a flat space on a ridge where leaves like to gather and cut down on the understory growth.
Another note, when I realized that I sleep in a chair a lot while drunk I figured that perhaps I do not need such a perfectly level spot to sleep on in the woods.
There are alot of sidehill camps like you mention, especially old places where a big tree fell 50 years ago and pulled up a dirt pile that has gotten level over the years. Finding these spots is pure luck but they're big enough and level enough for sleeping.
With a bivy sac it is possible to stealth camp almost anywhere, and I've done it under 18 wheelers by airports and behind grocery stores under the cover of darkness, etc. Finding a "harbor site"(a place very thick with brush)is one of the perfect places for a bivy camp, but you should expect a downpour at 2am as a matter of course and have a way to stay dry. Getting out of a harbor site in the middle of the night in a deluge w/o a flashlight to find a decent tentsite is comical and crazy.