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juma
12-29-2009, 21:05
The Army is set to field a new combat backpack that meets the emerging needs of Soldiers fighting in the steep terrain and remote outposts of Afghanistan.
The so-called “medium ruck” uses technology from today’s mountaineering equipment and tactical packs and combines it with the specific needs of Soldiers doing rotations of up to three days at observation posts, long patrols, or helicopter assaults where a trip back to the forward operating base may not happen for up to 72 hours.
The new 3,000 cubic inch-capacity backpack will offer Joes a better option for missions that don’t require the 5,000 cubic inch-capacity modular lightweight load bearing equipment, or MOLLE, ruck, or the 2,000 cubic inch “assault pack.”
“We talked to the Infantry Center and they were starting to get some rumblings about needing something in between for Afghanistan,” said Lt. Col. Mike Sloane, the product manager for Soldier clothing and individual equipment with PEO Soldier. “Before, a lot of those missions were being conducted by special operations forces and certain light units that had specialized equipment. But now you’re having some of the ‘Big Army’ moving in and they need something to accommodate this capability gap.”
Officials at PEO Soldier told Military.com in a wide-ranging interview at their Fort Belvoir, Va., headquarters that the service’s equipment engineers began looking into developing a mid-range pack last February after talking to Joes from the 173rd Airborne Brigade who said they had a “void to fill” when it came to carrying their loads into combat.
News of the new pack comes on the heels of comments from senior Pentagon leadership, including Defense Secretary Robert Gates (http://defensetech.org/2009/12/11/gates-looking-at-soldier-equipment-flaws/), that some of the Army’s current equipment may not be suitable for Afghanistan and could be contributing to Soldier fatigue and injuries.
“In Iraq, people weren’t carrying a lot of rucksacks, they were carried on the vehicle,” said John Kirk, the lead engineer for MOLLE systems at Natick Soldier Systems Center, Mass. “But now [in Afghanistan] they’re carrying a lot of loads on their back and the MOLLE large is a little bit too big.”
Natick later surveyed a “focus group” of 17 Soldiers from the 173rd and asked them to show engineers the packs they used most in combat. Natick officials were stunned to see that out of 17 packs displayed only two used the MOLLE, and the remaining 15 were made by 11 different manufacturers.
“It wasn’t even like we could say ‘this particular brand A meets their needs,’ ” Kirk said.
So Natick engineers set to work on putting together the perfect midsized ruck – call it the Af-Pack – that combined some of the most appealing features of the commercial packs Soldiers actually used and matched them with emerging requirements coming from the infantry gurus at Fort Benning, Ga.
Three prototypes have been developed so far, but engineers have yet to settle on a particular frame to help stabilize the pack’s load. The medium ruck will have two separate horizontally-aligned pockets on the front, each with separate pockets and dividers inside. The sides of the pack sport MOLLE webbing to accommodate add-on pouches and accessories and the bulk of the pack is comprised of one main, top-loading compartment.
Engineers are still evaluating whether the pack should have a hybrid suspension system that uses a rigid backing – one that is just foam and another that actually has a cavity built into it to fit better on a combat-loaded Soldier.
“We’re trying to look at being compatible with that rear plate of the body armor,” Kirk said. “The rear plate needs to be cradled in this suspension system.”
Engineers want to deploy the three prototypes to the 173rd in Afghanistan for testing and select a final design by the fall of 2010, Sloane said. He’s working with the Infantry Center to finalize a requirement for the pack and if all comes together, Joes could see their new pack before next winter.
“With the recent concern about this gap, we said ‘hey, we’ve got this solution’ and so we’re looking to accelerate the evaluation of these rucksacks,” Sloane said.
And if everything comes together like officials hope, “we may be able to pull a couple months out of there,” Sloane added.

superman
12-30-2009, 08:30
It's hard to express my envy of the gear our military has today.

1st ID RTO/FO 66-68

toenail
12-30-2009, 09:42
Our soldiers deserve quality, modern equipment, while they are out there fighting our wars. It amazes me how long the military took to convert from a canteen to a camelbak hyd. system. A 2-man pup tent to a eureka tent. Clothing made from something other than cotton. These advances have all come from the hiking/hunting community. I know they appreciate it, and I can't wait for them all to come home. Happy new year, dogfaces!

Hooch
12-30-2009, 18:05
You forgot to capitalize the "M" in Marines. Just sayin'. :rolleyes:

prain4u
12-30-2009, 18:30
I am constantly amazed at how "heavy" and how "bulky" my military "outdoor gear" is--when compared to my civilian "outdoor gear". My civilian gear from 30 years ago is generally smaller and lighter than the current stuff that I am issued by the Army!

When I "sign" for my military gear, the receipt almost always includes the replacement cost. Generally, I could get them a far better price (and a far better piece of equipment) at any good civilian outfitter!

(In the Army's defense, they do try to make their equipment extremely durable--which drives up the weight and the cost. However, I think that they could often make things a little LESS durable--and greatly reduce the weight and price!)

Hooch
12-30-2009, 18:32
I am constantly amazed at how "heavy" and how "bulky" my military "outdoor gear" is--when compared to my civilian "outdoor gear"....... This is because all your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder. Mystery solved. :D

superman
12-30-2009, 19:34
Tents?... they never gave me a tent. I had a multi-purpose poncho; I could put it under me, over me, collect rain water, get carried off in it and most of you don't remember that we were directed to cover ourselves with it in case of atomic blast.:)

white_russian
12-30-2009, 19:35
Clothing made from something other than cotton.
ACUs are still 50% cotton. Shameful really.

waywardfool
12-30-2009, 22:39
ACUs are still 50% cotton. Shameful really.

At least cotton doesn't melt into your skin and burn...something that hikers rarely have to deal with.

Franco
12-30-2009, 23:41
Same for wool...

mak52580
12-30-2009, 23:59
Many of the cottage industry companies represented on here should take note. This acquisition of the 3,000 cu. in. pack will undoubtedly be contracted out and under government contracts, preference is usually given to small businesses, women owned businesses, veteran owned businesses, minority owned businesses, etc.

How cool would it be to have an MLD, ULA or other cottage pack be carried into battle?

Wolf - 23000
12-31-2009, 00:20
Clothing made from something other than cotton.

The military still uses clothing made of cotton. What do you think is issued to our soldiers for undergaurdment. Cotton underwear and cotton T-shirts.

As for the uniforms. Each soldier is issued 4 sets of uniforms. After 9 weeks of Basic Training, if he is lucky he may have one left that is not completely tore up. The ACUs just straight up don't hold up like the BDUs.

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
12-31-2009, 00:28
When I "sign" for my military gear, the receipt almost always includes the replacement cost. Generally, I could get them a far better price (and a far better piece of equipment) at any good civilian outfitter!

(In the Army's defense, they do try to make their equipment extremely durable--which drives up the weight and the cost. However, I think that they could often make things a little LESS durable--and greatly reduce the weight and price!)

The Army gear is all contracted out, one of the reasons the price is sky high is because the contractor can get away with it.

And I would disagree why try to make the equipment "extremely durable". The contractor knows the equipment is going to break/rip. When it does, it is replaced out of the soldiers' pocket. Why buy something better if the old equipment is simple replaced at someone else expense?

Wolf

Wolf - 23000
12-31-2009, 00:29
Tents?... they never gave me a tent. I had a multi-purpose poncho; I could put it under me, over me, collect rain water, get carried off in it and most of you don't remember that we were directed to cover ourselves with it in case of atomic blast.:)

The poncho is all I have too.

Wolf

mak52580
12-31-2009, 01:53
The military still uses clothing made of cotton. What do you think is issued to our soldiers for undergaurdment. Cotton underwear and cotton T-shirts.

This is true. From what I have heard cotton is still the officially issued material of choice for clothing. The reason being is that the synthetic materials will melt when they catch fire. They were having a lot of problems with this when soldiers and marines were coming in with burns from artillery, IEDs, etc. It literally just melts to the skin and compounds the severity of the burns and the treatment since the doctors spend half their time trying to rip away the melted material (and the skin with it) rather than treating the wounds themselves.

That being said... many armed forces personnel still use the synthetics because of the breathability, wicking and comfort.

Donde
12-31-2009, 02:03
"It amazes me how long the military took to convert from a canteen to a camelbak hyd. system"- toenail

It's simple really you get the sweet new piece of gear 4-6 months after you buy it for yourself at Gen. Jackson on Yadkin Rd.

Doooglas
12-31-2009, 18:03
This is because all your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder. Mystery solved. :D
Exactly.
Those clowns could care less about you.

Rocketman
12-31-2009, 18:44
Originally Posted by Hooch http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=941665#post941665)
This is because all your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder. Mystery solved. :D

Exactly.
Those clowns could care less about you.

If you have read "politically incorrect" history books, you will know that one of George Washington's great problems was a corrupt supply system. They were commonly getting bad food (meat in particular - which was the most expensive iterm) and faulty equipment as well.

It seems as if most economic systems manage to have problems with outfitting their soldiers with due attention given to the value of the soldier's life vs profit of the equipment manufacturers.

Wolf - 23000
12-31-2009, 21:18
This is because all your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder. Mystery solved. :D

Hooch,

I would agree with you except the price a soldier has to pay to replace it is $$$. It is grossly over priced for what the military is getting.

Wolf

Hooch
12-31-2009, 21:23
Hooch,

I would agree with you except the price a soldier has to pay to replace it is $$$. It is grossly over priced for what the military is getting.

WolfAgreed. A the end of my enlistment in the Marines, I was checking out of my unit and had turned in a green closed cell foam sleeping pad that was slightly butchered to meet my needs/specifications. I had to pay for it out of pocket and it was a lot more expensive that it probably should have been. Shoulda gone out to Saigon Sam's in town and bought one to turn in. :rolleyes:

Johnny Thunder
12-31-2009, 21:24
Many of the cottage industry companies represented on here should take note. This acquisition of the 3,000 cu. in. pack will undoubtedly be contracted out and under government contracts, preference is usually given to small businesses, women owned businesses, veteran owned businesses, minority owned businesses, etc.

How cool would it be to have an MLD, ULA or other cottage pack be carried into battle?

It is my understanding (from talking to a Mr Fix-it, a Granite Gear Rep at Trail Days) that the new pack is designed and manufactured by Granite Gear under one of those government contracts. He said they were using a 2 or 3 pound version of their framesheet and a modular bag which can attach pockets using velcro.

Wouldn't normally spread rumors as such but I felt that it comes from the source.

Doooglas
01-01-2010, 20:49
This is because all your issue gear is made by the lowest bidder. Mystery solved. :D
Exactly. When I was in the service every single item they handed us was pure, unadulterated, garbage.