Any idea of the following loop-

BigStoneCoal Trail
Rocky Point Trail
Red Creek Trail
Breathed Mtn Trail
BigStoneCoal Trail

Or recommendations for a long weekend in the same area?

If I had three days I would park in the northern parking lot (Red Creek Camp Ground) and hike Blackburn Knob trail to Red Creek Trail. Camp somewhere on Red Creek, the camping is great. Then keep heading south and pick up Rocky Point or StoneCoal/dunkenbarger run trail depending on how many miles you want to hike. Rocky Point has great veiws of the valley and is a good hike. Stonecoal puts you in beter shape to see more of the sods. I would do the stonecoal trail unless you feel like only hiking a few hours each day, its well worth it. Hook back up with Big Stonecoal, then Breathed mountain, cross country, then back to your car with blackburn knob. I haven't hiked there in years but I have done all the trails there and I loved them all. The camping is great almost everywhere. Have a great weekend.

thanks hustler.

any idea of mileage.

Link:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/sp/dolly_sods_wilderness.htm

I am heading to the dolly sods area the last weekend in october... I believe it is the 29th 30th and the 31st.

planning on hiking dolly sods over spring break(next week!) anyone have springtime suggestions for the park?

be careful crossing Red Creek! it can be swift and deep in the spring.

Special Notice: Many of the artillery and mortar shells (http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/graphics/ds_shells_dynamite.jpg) shot into the area for practice still exist here. In 1997, a highly trained crew surveyed the trail locations and known campsites for shells. They found 15, some of which were still live. All were exploded on site. Many more may still exist and are dangerous. Since it is impossible to survey every acre of the wilderness, we ask that you follow the recommendations below for your own safety.If you find an artillery shell, often called a bomb, DO NOT pick it up. Make a notation on a map, showing location, landmarks, and distance to nearest trailhead – anything helpful - and contact either the Petersburg or Parsons office of the Monongahela National Forest. We will know who to contact to get it removed. A good location by you is important to us so that we can find it again.

Bombs? Heck yes! :banana

:eek: will try to avoid live munitions...

speaking of munitions...
dolly sods is in a national forest? does anyone know what the regulations on carrying a handgun? links?

Most National Forests (not to be confused with National PARKS) have cooperative agreements with state game or conservation departments. West Virginia allows for licensed (resident) concealed carry on State Park property (even with a sign posted saying all firearms must be cased. All firearms but your concealed carry firearm must be unloaded and cased in a West Virginia State Park), and only offers reciprocity with Kentucky and Virginia (VA resident permits only). West Virginia permits anyone who can lawfully possess a handgun to carry an unconcealed handgun.

You might want to bookmark www.packing.org (http://www.packing.org)

Judy

already have, long long ago, lots of good info.

Never heard of this place. When I first saw the thread I had a vision of Dolly Parton laying down sod in a wilderness area. Odd, I thought, why would she be doing that. Boy, was I way off!

haha, i keep having the same thought. i believe the original spelling is "Dahle" sods.
this will be my first time going there, pretty excited.

haha, i keep having the same thought. i believe the original spelling is "Dahle" sods.
this will be my first time going there, pretty excited.Its a great place. Going to spend 4-5 days there in May. Make sure you get the "good maps" as many (all?) of the FS maps are way wrong. The best site for the correct maps is the 2nd entry below. Some of these links may be broken, so check the parent site for updated information...


Trail Info:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/sp/dolly_sods_wilderness.htm (gov't site)
http://home.adelphia.net/~johntrudy/ (http://home.adelphia.net/%7Ejohntrudy/) (Excellent Maps)
http://www.wvhighlands.org/ (covers all of the MNf, links to some old DS maps)
http://www.wvhighlands.org/Voice%20PDFs/VoiceNov04.pdf (http://www.wvhighlands.org/Voice%20PDFs/VoiceNov04.pdf)(page 11 covers DSN trail descriptions)

Photos/Video: First link below has GPS information as well.
http://www.jcu.edu/philosophy/gensler/wva/
http://community.webshots.com/album/157238358XWOaMH
http://www.midatlantichikes.com/

Any idea of the following loop-

BigStoneCoal Trail
Rocky Point Trail
Red Creek Trail
Breathed Mtn Trail
BigStoneCoal Trail



Buy the book dude:rolleyes:

Buy the book dude:rolleyes:What book? The MNFv7 book is a bit weak on content and the maps are wrong.

What book? The MNFv7 book is a bit weak on content and the maps are wrong.

Sorry, it was a joke. You asked about so many trails I thought you qualified as an Amazon customer.

As for what book, well, smartass here has no idea; but there's got to be one!

I've hiked out there & have found trail blazes & signs to be spotty. Be sure to have a good map, a compass, & know how to use them.

I don't know why but I don't really like it all that much out there. It's kind of boring!

DON"T MISS THE NORTH FORK TRAIL TO THE EAST!!!

The Dolly Sods is my husband's all time favorite place to go. There's plant life that one sees only in Canada, and in early August there are ripe blueberries galore. It does get soggy and muddy there, so be sure you have waterproof boots. And it can get pretty cold there any time of the year (snow is likely this time of year as well). This place is much better in the summer though when you can swim in Red Creek and view the plant life. Good campsites by Red Creek are only two miles away if you head out on the trail right from the Red Creek campground. Down the road from the campground, Bear Rocks has a nice view and you can explore that area as well. But he likes it that it really is more wilderness than built up, requiring a map and compass, and you can explore at will. Good for Boy Scouts.

not interested really in campgrounds, definitely looking forward to the back country. all these sites that have been listed are very helpful, thanks

I don't think the MNFv7 book is that bad, but there are some errors in the maps. However, if you are willing to work at it a little, here is how you can get accurate trail maps. You won't be able to print them directly, unless you have access to ArcView, however you can do screen prints.

The Forest Service has GPS mapped all the trails in the MNF. Go to this site http://svinetfc4.fs.fed.us/ and download the desiged quads from the Raster Data Gateway. Download the "trails" GIS data set from the Vector Data Gateway. Download a free copy of the Global Mapper software from ftp://ftpmcmc.er.usgs.gov/release/dlgv32pro/dlgv32_pro_usgs_setup.exe. Global Mapper will enable you to overlay the vector trails on the raster quads.

Tip: In Global Mapper, change the configuration color for displaying "Trails" to red vs. the default black. This will make the trails stand out.

Tip: Onve you load what you want in Global Mapper, go to the Tools->Control Center and highlight the trails overlay. Click the options button. In the "Feature Types" tab, scroll the "Get Feature Name from Attribute" option until "TRL_NAME" is selected. Click the "Apply" buttom. This will cause the trail names to be displayed.

The USFS quads are generally better quality than the scanned USGS quads. The FS quads also have the green background removed, so they are easier to read, although there is a way to remove it from the USGS quads in Global Mapper.

Yes, all this is a pain, but it will give you an accurate trail track on a 1:24,000 topo quad. I found that by taking screen snaps and pasteing them into an MSWord document, I could save them and print them all at one time.

Also note that Global Mapper will only let you load four overlays at a time ... one for the trails plus three quads, so you may have to swap out the quads as needed. Or you can spend $250 for a licensed copy of Global Mapper which has no restrictions and provides a printing function. It's cheaper than ArcView.

I have to wonder how accurate the FS data could be if their maps, to date, are wrong? Have they gone out and performed a new survey?

Frankly, I would be more inclined to use the GPS data provided by John Trudy (2nd link in my above post) than use the FS data. I also believe you can access the JT information using National Geographic Topo ($99). Which gives you print capabilities.

What I did was order a custom topo of the area ($15) and painted (using an oil-based sharpy) the trails (JT's data) by hand on the map. Rather easy to do.

I have to wonder how accurate the FS data could be if their maps, to date, are wrong? Have they gone out and performed a new survey?


All the government agencies are going/ or have gone to vector-based maps. Just because the FS has not updated the raster-based maps does not mean that the GIS data is inaccurate. USGS is not updating their DRG quads either. In fact, they are not even distributing DRGs any more. They have relegated distribution to commercial firms and educational institutions.

I compared the FS trails overlay to the maps at John Trudy's site you referenced. They match almost identically as far as I can tell. Note that John Trudy overlayed the trails on a vector hypsographic overlay, not on a DRG image, so some info that a DRG would normal show is not available.

Yes, you could import the "raw GPS data" into NG's Topo program, but it will still be a little messy. I have done this many times by converting ERSI GIS shapefiles to text and then importing them into Topo. The problem is that the data does not impart as a track. Topo converts each location into a waypoint. Consequently, you wind up with a bazillion waypoint icons on your map, but they do indicate the location of the trail. Importing them into Maptech Terrain Navigator at least gives you a smooth line.

I have both Terrain Navigator and Topo. Because NG insists on keeping it .tpo file format a proprietary secret, nobody can build a decent conversion routine. Consequently, I refuse to buy any any more NG products.

Returned yesterday from 3 days in Dolly Sods. Would have stayed longer but heavy rains ensued after my second night so I figured another time will come. The trailhead is less than 60 miles from home.

First day - hiked in northern section where landscape is all open country of scrub and blueberry bushes punctuated with occasional mountain laurel (in full blooming season) and spruce trees. Reminded me very much of Northern New England except for the laurel. Hiked Bear Rocks trail, turned left onto Dobbin Grade trail which was very mucky - couldn't keep my feet dry. Turned right onto Raven Ridge trail uphill and camped at nearly 4,000'. Gorgeous weather with a constant breeze to ward off bugs but not enough to affect my stove's performance. Even though campsite was out in the open, the breezes and drying winds overnight prevented a heavy dew buildup. Splendid sunset and sunrise.

Second day - continued on the Raven Ridge Trail until it ended at the Rocky Ridge Trail which bore south. Hiked the entire trail to where it ended at the Big Stonecoal trail. At this point, I had dropped from the high open meadows into forest. The Big Stonecoal trail was also reminiscent of New England with its extreme rockiness and myriad roots. This section was in federally-designated wilderness so trail maintenance was minimal although there were still signs at junctions unlike the Otter Creek wilderness further north.

By the time Big Stonecoal ended at Red Creek, I had descended to 2,800'. Fording the creek was a pleasure. On the other side, I picked up the Red Creek Trail which as the name implies traverses up Red Creek over 6 miles to its headwaters. Hiked about 1.5 miles up the creek to my next night's campsite. Weather still holding up but rain expected tomorrow.

Third day - rained heavy overnight but at least it stopped by morning. Skies still heavy-looking and gray as I packed up and decided to forgo hiking all the way up Red Creek. The ruggedness of the trail with rocks & roots made very slippery from the rain combined with the lack of views made the decision.

So I hiked up the Fisher Spring Trail (again, very rugged with rocks everywhere including some rockfields where it was hard to pick up the trail) to the Forest Service Road where I walked back to the car. On the way up, I sank my trekking pole in deep muck and lost the tip.

Wonderful area! I'll be back. I was about 2 weeks too early for the blueberries. I've posted some photos.

I've always wanted to go. Maybe after this years Gathering.

Great place! Lots of good memories! One of my favorite experiences was camping at Red Creek. Early in the morning I was awaken by the sound of several deer ripping grass out about 2 feet from my tent. I slowly opened my eyes and the deer were looking at me as if to say.."You making the coffee?".
There is a great water slide in the creek as well. And while your close and in the area, don't miss the Flat rock area to the south. Blueberries and often a bear or two eating them. It's wide open there and with binoculars we saw several bear eating blueberries there.
Have a great hike. Wish I were going.

Great place! Lots of good memories! One of my favorite experiences was camping at Red Creek. Early in the morning I was awaken by the sound of several deer ripping grass out about 2 feet from my tent. I slowly opened my eyes and the deer were looking at me as if to say.."You making the coffee?".
There is a great water slide in the creek as well. And while your close and in the area, don't miss the Flat rock area to the south. Blueberries and often a bear or two eating them. It's wide open there and with binoculars we saw several bear eating blueberries there.
Have a great hike. Wish I were going.

I'm going back in 2 weeks to dayhike and check out the blueberries which should be ripe by then.

I wondered about the bears. My first campsite was in the open so bearbagging my food was an issue. I managed to hoist it up an evergreen but I think a determined bear (or raccoon) could have snagged it. No problems.

I've always wanted to go. Maybe after this years Gathering.

Sly, I can pick up some maps for you from USFS on my way to the Gathering if you're interested.

I wondered about the bears. There are bears in the area, but I've been there several times and have only seen 1 ( on my last trip). Bears are hunted in the region so I would hope most have a healthy fear of people.

I did see a handful of bears in Cranberry Wilderness (about 1.5 hours south of Dolly Sods). CW is a great location as well. Especially if you are into fly fishing and/or creeking.

....I did see a handful of bears in Cranberry Wilderness (about 1.5 hours south of Dolly Sods). CW is a great location as well. Especially if you are into fly fishing and/or creeking.

I hope to get to Cranberry Wilderness this year, perhaps en-route to the Gathering.

Sly, I can pick up some maps for you from USFS on my way to the Gathering if you're interested.

That would be awesome.

I'm coordinating the program for this year's ALDHA Gathering, and I'm looking for some interesting and new topics for workshops/presentations. I've always been interested in Dolly Sods, and this seems to be a perfect example of the kind of presentation subject I was looking for.

So I'd like to get some ideas from this group about what a Dolly Sods presentation might look like, and who would be knowledgable enough to create something affective (both educationally and inspirationally). Any thoughts?

I'm coordinating the program for this year's ALDHA Gathering, and I'm looking for some interesting and new topics for workshops/presentations. I've always been interested in Dolly Sods, and this seems to be a perfect example of the kind of presentation subject I was looking for.

So I'd like to get some ideas from this group about what a Dolly Sods presentation might look like, and who would be knowledgable enough to create something affective (both educationally and inspirationally). Any thoughts?

I think it's a good topic given the unique nature of Dolly Sods - high-elevation meadows and evergreens more reminiscent of New England than the mid-Atlantic. It must be more than just the sheer elevation alone. Parts of Shenandoah NP extend more than 4,000' and yet it's nothing like Dolly Sods.

My recent trip there was my first one so I expect you'll find other WBers and/or ALDHAers who are more familar than I and have covered more trails. But if desired, I can at least contribute some good recent digital photos if the presenter would like to employ them.

I'll probably return there in a few weeks for the blueberries - I live about an hour away.

I'm coordinating the program for this year's ALDHA Gathering, and I'm looking for some interesting and new topics for workshops/presentations. I've always been interested in Dolly Sods, and this seems to be a perfect example of the kind of presentation subject I was looking for.

So I'd like to get some ideas from this group about what a Dolly Sods presentation might look like, and who would be knowledgable enough to create something affective (both educationally and inspirationally). Any thoughts?



Greg,

You might post this on the PATC Trails Forum. In the past, I've seen posts from some of the regulars there who have hiked Dolly Sods extensively and seem to know a lot about the area. If I'm not mistaken some have a pretty good photo collection.

They don't archive posts on that forum like WB and many other sites, instead deleting them after a few months or less, so I can't point you in the direction of any specific thread.

Anyway, to post something there, go to:

http://www.hypernews.org/HyperNews/get/trails/PATC.html

I'll be in Dolly Sods in October, and I'm grateful for all the info. My first foray into WV, hopefully not the last.

I'll be in Dolly Sods in October, and I'm grateful for all the info. My first foray into WV, hopefully not the last.

I just returned from cycling the Allegheny Highlands Trail (http://www.higlandstrail.org)in WV and stopped at the Forest Service Office in Parsons, picking up the map and guide for Dolly Sods. I promised Sly I'd give him a copy at the Gathering. If you don't have this map, it's worth your while obtaining it from the FS.
Here's the contact point (http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/mnf/sp/dolly_scenic.html).

Thanks for thinking of me Cookerhiker. Have Map, Will Travel. :)