View Full Version : What pPercentage of thru hikers that get Lyme
In NH, there is just under 1 case of confirmed Lyme Disease for every 1000 residents in a 1 year period.
The stats for all states are compiled by the CDC here: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_rptdLymeCasesbyState.htm
The ATC does not keep records on this important topic.
This poll asks for people's best estimate of the percentage of thru hikers and section hikers who contract Lyme during their 2000 mile trips.
Stone Dog
06-05-2010, 08:29
I would say a very small % contract lime. If I had to guess I would say it is about 1 or 2%. Check yourself every night especially the further north you go and you should be fine.
Fiddleback
06-05-2010, 09:55
I think 1 to 2% would be shockingly high. My guess is that the decimal should be moved over a place or two...
FB
Of our 400+ guests in 2009 I would say that at least 12 had been treated for Lyme Disease. So that's 3%...:(
Rocket Jones
06-05-2010, 12:12
Of our 400+ guests in 2009 I would say that at least 12 had been treated for Lyme Disease. So that's 3%...:(
Were they all treated that year? Were they treated because they had Lyme or was it prophylactic antibiotics?
3% sounds insanely high to me.
wcgornto
06-05-2010, 12:23
Of our 400+ guests in 2009 I would say that at least 12 had been treated for Lyme Disease. So that's 3%...:(
And if you take out the SOBOs from the count who really haven't been through Lyme country yet, the percentage for NOBOs must be closer to 5%. I came across quite a few NOBOs with Lyme disease last year, and hiked with one SOBO who had it.
I think part of the problem might be accurately counting. For example, my up-to-recent hiking partner got off trail this past week and found a small tick burrowed into his chest. He started getting headaches and "general malaise" and went to a nearby hospital and got a prescription for Doxycycline. Did/does he actually have Lyme? I don't think anyone will ever know.
My wife hiked the 100 or so miles of the Shenendoah NP with us this year, and when she got home she had a raised rash on one calf and some Lyme-like symptoms so just yesterday she picked up the same antibiotic just to be sure.
Lyme freaks us out, or at least it does me, more than any other AT-related danger. Because if it's not identified in phase I or II, it can mess up a persons life. And because in only 80% of cases is a bulls-eye rash displayed, and because the deer tick larvae are so damned small, easy to miss.
So I wonder how many people report Lyme based on a collection of real and/or mind-generated symptoms that aren't in fact Lyme? No way to tell, of course!
I think part of the problem might be accurately counting. For example, my up-to-recent hiking partner got off trail this past week and found a small tick burrowed into his chest. He started getting headaches and "general malaise" and went to a nearby hospital and got a prescription for Doxycycline. Did/does he actually have Lyme? I don't think anyone will ever know.
My wife hiked the 100 or so miles of the Shenendoah NP with us this year, and when she got home she had a raised rash on one calf and some Lyme-like symptoms so just yesterday she picked up the same antibiotic just to be sure.
Lyme freaks us out, or at least it does me, more than any other AT-related danger. Because if it's not identified in phase I or II, it can mess up a persons life. And because in only 80% of cases is a bulls-eye rash displayed, and because the deer tick larvae are so damned small, easy to miss.
So I wonder how many people report Lyme based on a collection of real and/or mind-generated symptoms that aren't in fact Lyme? No way to tell, of course!
I agree completely ....good observation!!!
Snowleopard
06-08-2010, 12:58
In NH, there is just under 1 case of confirmed Lyme Disease for every 1000 residents in a 1 year period.
The stats for all states are compiled by the CDC here: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/ld_rptdLymeCasesbyState.htm
...
Very interesting stats. It looks like it's becoming more common in the AT states, and growing very rapidly in most states from Virginia, north. Hikers are probably more exposed than the average person, though in some suburbs it's getting to be common (e.g., in Eastern Mass.).
ShoelessWanderer
06-08-2010, 13:50
Maybe we should post a poll on who has gotten lyme disease? Better chance of getting an accurate number?
Maybe we should post a poll on who has gotten lyme disease? Better chance of getting an accurate number?
Probably. But I was more curious as to how many people see Lyme as a relatively low threat on the AT. This poll suggests that is what many people think. My guess is that those who see the risk as low are less likely to do good tick checks and such. I think that would be a mistake.
ShoelessWanderer
06-09-2010, 10:35
Probably. But I was more curious as to how many people see Lyme as a relatively low threat on the AT. This poll suggests that is what many people think. My guess is that those who see the risk as low are less likely to do good tick checks and such. I think that would be a mistake.
Disagree with ya on that one. Lyme is a relatively low threat (on the AT or elsewhere), but there are lots of other tick-borne illnesses. I think most people are pretty aware of that and check themselves well...and just because you check yourself doesn't mean you don't still get lyme.
I'd be a prime example. Ticks LOVE me! (Seriously, they like plan missions to hang out on leaves until I come by and then they attack). I check myself constantly for ticks...and wear tons of deet. However, last summer, I ended up with lyme. (thanks Connecticut!)
modiyooch
06-09-2010, 22:59
Would a person be more apt to get lyme because they sleep in the shelters?
ShoelessWanderer
06-09-2010, 23:13
Would a person be more apt to get lyme because they sleep in the shelters?
:-? hmmm....no...unless of course the openness of the shelter keeps you from checking yourself as well?
how would anyone actually know the answer to this question?:-?
modiyooch
06-10-2010, 08:14
I know it sounds far fetched. I guess I should research. I was just curious about the relationship with rodents, ticks and lyme. shelters = mice. And, at which point does the tick become infectious? Do they hatch with potential of making you sick, or do they acquire it from first biting deer, or rodents? hmmmm
modiyooch
06-11-2010, 07:32
:-? hmmm....no...unless of course the openness of the shelter keeps you from checking yourself as well?
so, would this support my theory?
The Lyme disease bacterium, Borrelia burgdorferi, normally lives in mice, squirrels and other small animals. It is transmitted among these animals – and to humans – through the bites of certain species of ticks.
....Larvae feed on mice, birds, and other small animals in the summer and early fall. When a young tick feeds on an infected animal, the tick takes bacteria into its body
.....When the tick feeds again, it can transmit the bacterium to its new host.
********* the mouse population certainly is on the rise. Maybe there is a rise in infected mice, leading to a rise in higher transmission. ahh, just another reason for me to stay away from shelters.
ShoelessWanderer
06-11-2010, 11:46
so, would this support my theory?
The Lyme disease bacterium, Borrelia burgdorferi, normally lives in mice, squirrels and other small animals. It is transmitted among these animals – and to humans – through the bites of certain species of ticks.
....Larvae feed on mice, birds, and other small animals in the summer and early fall. When a young tick feeds on an infected animal, the tick takes bacteria into its body
.....When the tick feeds again, it can transmit the bacterium to its new host.
********* the mouse population certainly is on the rise. Maybe there is a rise in infected mice, leading to a rise in higher transmission. ahh, just another reason for me to stay away from shelters.
lol. That's funny, I just went and looked it up and was coming back to post that maybe you're right it would...lol, you beat me too it. So, yes, I'd say you're right.
volleypc
06-14-2010, 14:38
Of our 400+ guests in 2009 I would say that at least 12 had been treated for Lyme Disease. So that's 3%...:(
There is a blunder in this reasoning though. Several disease offer lyme like symptoms but are not lyme. The treatment, however, is the same from what I understand. Instead of waiting for the results of the blood test to come back they go ahead and give the prescription.
I hiked the trail last year and several people had these symptoms and were taking meds. That is why I think it is important to look at confirmed cases as opposed to people treated for Lyme.
The topic of Lyme disease in thru or section hikers is of interest to the medical community. We know there is a high incidence in all of the areas where hikers travel. I am going to be looking at that in detail next year by conducting field research in Pennsylvania.
Please know this: the tick is tiny and many times unseen. They attach to the white footed mouse, which is prevalent at the shelters. Please check yourself frequently, and especially in between toes, belly button!
Doc Judy
MattBuck30
08-13-2010, 10:26
During my thru hike in 2008, I ran into 5+ hikers who had gotten Lyme Disease. However, I was hiking in a group of 4 and none of us had any issues. Those damn signs with the huge tick on them up North will really put Lyme Disease in your mind though! I had nightmares about ticks as I was hiking through Connecticut! Ha
ChinMusic
08-13-2010, 10:54
Of the Trail Journals I was following this season OVER 50% said they were diagnosed with Lyme. They were dropping like flies. It got to the point I could almost predict it. Stong hikers suddenly having to do less miles and struggling with energy. Soon after that.....Lyme.
The risk is DEF there.
When I thru I will personally be treating my clothing with Permethrin to minimize the parts of my body a tick could survive.
There is a blunder in this reasoning though. Several disease offer lyme like symptoms but are not lyme. The treatment, however, is the same from what I understand. Instead of waiting for the results of the blood test to come back they go ahead and give the prescription.
I hiked the trail last year and several people had these symptoms and were taking meds. That is why I think it is important to look at confirmed cases as opposed to people treated for Lyme.
You are absolutely correct...many hikers take the meds before the test results come back.
In 2010 so far we had 9 guests who took the antibiotics for Lymes out of about 150 northbound hikers who stayed with us. That comes out to 6%.
max patch
08-13-2010, 11:34
Of the Trail Journals I was following this season OVER 50% said they were diagnosed with Lyme. They were dropping like flies. It got to the point I could almost predict it. Stong hikers suddenly having to do less miles and struggling with energy. Soon after that.....Lyme.
They may have said it but I don't believe it. "Lyme" is an excuse to quit the trail for some people who has become either physically or mentally unable or unwilling to complete their hike. Lyme rate of 50% is ridiculous.
ChinMusic
08-13-2010, 12:32
Lyme rate of 50% is ridiculous.
It is ridiculously high. Granted the sample size I am referring to is low. Maybe I jinxed them by following their journals.....:eek:
Almost all had reported their diagnosis from an MD. Only in ShelterLeopard's case have I not read of an MDs Dx.
I'm just telling ya what I read.
I had a friend who completed the AT in 2007 only to discover he had Lyme in Feb the next year. He had nagging symptoms that finally made him go to his MD. This makes me think that Lyme may actually be UNDER reported.
IMO, Lyme is worse than most think.
couscous
08-17-2010, 08:12
The topic of Lyme disease in thru or section hikers is of interest to the medical community. We know there is a high incidence in all of the areas where hikers travel. I am going to be looking at that in detail next year by conducting field research in Pennsylvania.
This may be of interest - Backpacking Light - Lyme Disease: Challenging Old Sterotypes (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/lyme_disease_challenging_stereotypes.html?id=YXKu5 eYc:209.254.3.34)
ChinMusic
08-17-2010, 10:51
From the article posted prior to this post:
For clothing, Permethrin has been found to be highly effective in killing ticks on contact and should be applied not only to clothing, but also to packs and tents. According to the website of Permethrin's manufacturer, Sawyer Products, Permethrin does not damage clothes or equipment. Even clothing made from silks, synthetic, and waterproof membrane fabrics are unharmed.
Regardless of whether or not scientific evaluation ultimately finds self-inspection to be effective, the fact remains that the majority cases of Lyme each year occur in people who are not aware of being bitten by a tick. Backpackers traveling through overgrown, brushy, grassy, or beach areas in regions known to be populated with B. burgdorferi-infected ticks need to understand how to recognize early Lyme symptoms and know what to do should they begin to experience them. Unusual or unexplained rashes, muscle and joint aches, headaches, fatigue, and other non-respiratory flu symptoms should all be taken seriously, and backpackers experiencing some or all of these symptoms during or within thirty days following a hike should immediately go to a physician for evaluation. Ignoring these symptoms can increase the chances of suffering the serious health consequences associated with tick-borne diseases. Mark Bailey would be one of the first people to agree.
Reflecting back on his experience, he suspects that many backpackers today are unknowingly experiencing Lyme symptoms as he did. "I'll bet there are a lot of hikers sitting at home who don't feel so good," he surmises.
Based on my anecdotal experiences with friends I have to agree with the last paragraph. One buddy felt weak near the end of his thru. He just chocked it up to his body having enough, his body fat being depleted, and the rigors of the trail getting more difficult. That turns out not to be the case. He had Lyme and didn't know it. He just fought through it, finished his thru, and only found out 6 months later that he had Lyme.
I treat my clothing with Permethrin when hiking, except in winter. I have not pulled a tick off of me since using Permethrin. I use the type where I soak the clothing and allow them to hang until fully dry.
I have not done a thru but if I were to feel/see any of the vast/vague symptoms attributed to Lyme, I may prophylactically place myself on Doxy to be on the "safe side". IMO, the risk of over-treating is less than the risk of under-treating.
YMMV
The CDC site linked in the first post in this thread has a quiz testing one's knowledge of Lyme.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/lyme/quiz/q5/index.html
I found the answer to question #5 to be the most interesting:
Ticks that transmit Lyme disease can take 3 or more days to feed fully. If the tick is infected, the chances of transmission increases with time, from 0% at 24 hours, 12% at 48 hours, 79% at 72 hours and 94% at 96 hours. This is the reason it is important to conduct tick checks after working or recreating in tick infected areas, removing any ticks you find promptly.
Thanks for participating.
Turtle Feet
09-23-2010, 17:54
I was hiking in the MI UP over Memorial Day weekend. It was a quick overnight with one of my sons. The time in which I was dressed in the same clothing, including a fleece jacket (once entering the park until showering back home) was roughly 26 hours.
2 days later I woke up feeling 'flu'ish, body aches primarily. Took a couple of Tylenol and went about my day, feeling sort of 'punkie' all day. The next day (Thurs.), I had to drive about 4 hours to Milwaukee. I told my husband before I left that I wasn't feeling well at all, but by the time I was about an hour outside of Milwaukee (about 5pm that afternoon) I was feeling so bad I told him I wasn't going to be eating dinner, I just wanted to go to bed. I had developed a terrible headache over the course of the day.
When I got to the apartment and started to change into my pj's my husband said, "what's that?!", pointing to my back. There was about a 1 1/2 - 2" diameter red bite mark on my right shoulderblade. It looked like a spider bite to me, so I thought, no wonder I was feeling bad, I must have gotten a spider bite somewhere along the way.
Slept very poorly with a horrible headache, stiff neck, ect. When I got up in the morning and took another look at the bite, a bull's eye was forming (this is 4 days after the start of our hike).
I won't bore you with the rest of the story/symptoms, ect., but I will say that I was tested for Lyme on the 9th of June (10 days after the bite) and tested positive for "early Lyme", according to the public health nurse at the county Health Dept.
I had already started a 15 day course of antibiotics on the 5th of June after visiting an acute care facility (we were out of town for a graduation). I still seem to have residual headaches that I'm going to bring up to my dr. on a visit I have coming up with him.
As far as looking for the tick that carries Lyme, yes, look, but don't be surprised if you don't see a thing, they are incredibly small. http://www.canlyme.com/ticks.html
Only my personal experience....
TF
kayak karl
09-23-2010, 18:23
were capable of doing professional surveys now, IDIOTS.
Turtle Feet
09-23-2010, 23:18
were capable of doing professional surveys now, IDIOTS.
What's that suppose to mean? :confused:
RichardD
09-25-2010, 21:33
Anecdotal but:
Last summer my sister and I hiked Virginia on the AT. I sprayed my clothes with permethrin, my sisters trip was last minute and despite good intentions we did not get her clothes sprayed.
She did not find a tick bite and got very sick on her flight back to England, ten days after the hike. For three weeks she was very sick and finally I pursueded her to go to the Doctor. Blood tests showed stage 2 Lymes. She still has side effects, shot short term memory etc. She had many side effects for almost a year, her liver was compromised so she could not have the strong antibiotic at the beginning of the treatment, that had to wait 'til later. It was a very rough year for her.
I will most definitely treat my clothing with permethrin before I start my thru in March and will retreat a couple of times during the hike.
Turtle Feet
09-25-2010, 22:15
Anecdotal but:
Last summer my sister and I hiked Virginia on the AT. I sprayed my clothes with permethrin, my sisters trip was last minute and despite good intentions we did not get her clothes sprayed.
She did not find a tick bite and got very sick on her flight back to England, ten days after the hike. For three weeks she was very sick and finally I pursueded her to go to the Doctor. Blood tests showed stage 2 Lymes. She still has side effects, shot short term memory etc. She had many side effects for almost a year, her liver was compromised so she could not have the strong antibiotic at the beginning of the treatment, that had to wait 'til later. It was a very rough year for her.
I will most definitely treat my clothing with permethrin before I start my thru in March and will retreat a couple of times during the hike.
I feel for your sister Richard :( Lyme is no joke for sure! Did she eventually see a bulls-eye rash? Ironically, the doc that saw me at the acute care center looked at the bite and said he didn't think it was a bulls-eye (ARE YOU KIDDING???), but he agreed to write the Rx for me (I pretty much insisted).
There's no way for any of us to know for sure how many hikers are infected on the trail every year, but it could very well be a higher number than we might have guessed.
I understand our experiences are only anecdotal but I do want people to understand that Lyme is a real possibility, you're not going to feel a bite, and probably won't see anything until your body is already reacting to the bite.
My bite was high on my shoulder blade area - makes me think that the tick maybe fell on me and crawled down my neck? Why would it crawl up the entire length of my body before biting? I don't remember laying on any logs, sitting yes, but not laying down. I wore a fleece jacket on over silk base layer, and a t-shirt the entire trip (we were directly on the shore of Lake Superior - in May), so this little guy had to really work at getting to me. Spraying my clothing probably would have helped!
Thank goodness we weren't out for an extended trip! That would have sucked for sure. I got a Doxi regimen started 6 days after the bite, so that's about as early as you're going to catch it.
RichardD
09-26-2010, 00:46
She never did find the bite.
She had some rather bad impetigo that started in England prior to the hike then flared up during the hike so it would have made it hard to identify a bite.
Two years ago I hiked the Superior trail and I sprayed my clothes prior to the hike with permethrin, the first time I had used it. I met up with two hikers and hiked with them for much of the trail, they had not sprayed their clothes with permethrin. During rest breaks they both had several ticks crawling over them, I had none. These were likely not the Lymes bearing ticks as they were large enough to be quite visible but it very clearly demonstrated to me the effectiveness of permethrin.
I will use permethrin on my clothes at regular intervals when I hike the AT in March.
I believe we set out at about the same time in March so I will likely see you on the trail at some point. Despite the fact that I am on a never ending vacation since I retired in May (I am now in Canada and am looking at some hikes in Kootenay for tomorrow. Also bought my ski season pass for Wolf Creek, Co) I still think about my AT adventure on a daily basis.
Your chances of getting lyme is 100%- IF - you hike long enough.:-?
I'm still waiting...:o
Joking aside, get checked out if you think ther's a possibility. Better safe than sorry.:(
Turtle Feet
09-26-2010, 20:00
Your chances of getting lyme is 100%- IF - you hike long enough.:-?
I'm still waiting...:o
Joking aside, get checked out if you think ther's a possibility. Better safe than sorry.:(
True enough - on both accounts! ;)
I have to laugh to myself because my elderly father, always worrying about me being out in the woods, liked to bring up articles about all thing life-threatening to me. He'd call when he saw a news story on TV, or read any "I nearly died hiking" articles in Readers Digest. Of course Lyme was always one of his favorite concerns.
Well, I'm thankful he wasn't alive to see the Lyme diagnosis. Honestly, I think I would have tried to keep it from him - for his own piece of mind of course.
My husband said at the time, "your dad's looking down from heaven right now saying - I told you so!!!".
TF