View Full Version : cleanliness on the trail
Bear Cables
06-10-2010, 00:00
Maybe some thru hikers can give input here, but is there really any reason for hikers to smell so foul on the trail? We have shared shelters with some thrus hikers that reek so bad I have to wonder....why not stay cleaner on the trail? As a section hiker I take at least one bucket bath with soap during a week long hike and wipe clean the important parts daily. What's up with the stench?
What's up with the stench?
Those people don't wash at home, why should they wash on the trail...
Panzer
I hear that's its a right of passage; backpacking=skinking. I know you don't have to smell spring time fresh all the time but no reason to smell like a dead skunk's behind either.
There's a lot you can clean with just a bandana, water and soap daily. Your gear, other hikers, and the forest will thank you.
I meant rite and stinking lol
As a section hiker I take at least one bucket bath with soap during a week long hike and wipe clean the important parts daily. What's up with the stench?
Yikes. I wreak after 24 hours on the trail.
Here are a few reasons to avoid taking a lengthy sponge bath:
Cold
Rain
Snow
Wind
Exhaustion
Bugs
Hungry
Mileage
Inexperience
During my training hikes earlier this year I simply didn't know how to keep myself clean. I was nasty when I got back home. Disgusting. Eww. I was still having trouble during the first week of my hike. By then I was doing much better, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm still learning.
I left a month early this year and I wouldn't do anything more than a quick wet nap bath on the trail because I'd get too cold. Not to mention that I was slow enough that I needed to be hiking during all the daylight hours, and of course it would be cold once the sun went down. During the second month it got warmer and I cleaned up more, but I also needed to because I was sweating more.
Actually, while I didn't exactly smell like springtime, a lot of the stink was in my clothing. I still haven't figured out a good enough way to wash my clothes on the trail to get the stink out. On my last day on the trail I washed my clothes several times using gallons of bleached water and soap, but my clothes still stunk. It doesn't help that I'm completely stoveless, so I can't do a hot wash and hot washes in town are the only thing that've killed the smell.
For a while I carried a shirt solely for hitching. It made a huge difference.
My next step is to try switching to wool instead of the synthetics I'm currently using. Too bad wool clothing is so expensive...not that my synthetics were inexpensive...
daddytwosticks
06-10-2010, 07:36
Last section hike I did, a young man (potential thru) had not washed in weeks. He was developing sores on his body. He was walking around barefoot in camp. His feet were filthy and were covered in blisters...I shouldn't talk though. Three hours on the trail and I'm sweating like a pig and beginning to reek. :)
I don't see the problem with giving yourself a sponge bath and a shave every day, except perhaps due to environmental concerns. You would want to do it with minimal impact, because there are so many people using the trail.
Last section hike I did, a young man (potential thru) had not washed in weeks. He was developing sores on his body. He was walking around barefoot in camp. His feet were filthy and were covered in blisters...I shouldn't talk though. Three hours on the trail and I'm sweating like a pig and beginning to reek. :)
The Guy hadn't washed in weeks? I'm sorry but there is NO excuse for this.
for one, thrus are in town every single week at least once. Then there are streams. That is just plain unhealthy. Hmm.. I wonder if he ever succeeded in hitching a ride? :-?
Another reason to avoid taking a bath on the trail: having to dump a bucket full of soapy water somewhere in the woods. Even the relatively mild stuff is full of chemicals that are not good for plants and animals.
Save the baths for when you get home and your water can be properly treated.
When we went through basic training, which was October through February in British Columbia, we had to do ablutions every day we were in the field. It really wasn't that unpleasant. In fact, it was one of the more pleasant experiences during my 3 month introduction to hiking at the Canadian taxpayers expense. We used our helmets as wash basins, and poured in some boiling hot water, which turned tepid soon enough, and some soap, and we shaved and sponge bathed down to the waist. Not sure why we did not do from the waist down. Maybe we did but I can't remember. The mornings were not so cold once we got dressed again after doing this. Good times. Not rocket science.
When hiking I try not to use soap, because of the impact on the environment. I use a Kelly Kettle so lots of boiling water is not a problem, although for much of the Appalachian trail it might be harder to use biomass because of fire risk restrictions, or lack of appropriate biomass in high traffic areas. When using biomass, a little white ash added to the hot water will serve as soap by forming a dilute potassium hydroxide solution which raises the pH level, and when mixed with body grease, it cuts the grease and starts to form actual soap and glycerine. Hot water itself is a detergent though, which along with all the natural salts and alcohols secreted by your skin is all you really need to clean your skin and keep it healthy and smelling reasonably fresh and clean. Especially when hiking so many hours, our persperation itself should be more dilute compared to sitting around at home and eating or drinking or whatever, but you need at least a good rinse every day. The same wood ash and water treatment can be used to wash a pair of socks or a pair of underwear each day. One item per day should be enough to stay on top of things. A good rain can work wonders, or a swim.
Part of the pleasure of hiking is that you have an opportunity to live a simple life, but this simple life should be as complete and sustainable as possible and practical. You are still dependant on resupply for food, and perhaps fuel, and worn out clothing and gear. There is no reason however not to get into a routine of doing your own washing and laundry. It is part of life, even a simple life. Especially a simple life. These routines are part of the celebration of life.
Hiking should be more than just a scenic walk.
Hiking can also be an excercise in refined poverty.
Maybe some thru hikers can give input here, but is there really any reason for hikers to smell so foul on the trail? We have shared shelters with some thrus hikers that reek so bad I have to wonder....why not stay cleaner on the trail? As a section hiker I take at least one bucket bath with soap during a week long hike and wipe clean the important parts daily. What's up with the stench?
I cant imagine the environmental impact of 1000's thru hikers taking soap baths on the trail. And it does not help anyway. The biggest part of the problem is the high tech clothing we wear retains the smell. You can wash your clothes in town and as soon as you break a sweet on the trail the smell comes right back.
You can call the smell of a thru hiker anything you want, but I remember getting to the point on the trail that I enjoyed my smell. I would take thru hiker smell over the heavy perfume smell that many women force me to endure in Airplanes, buses, bars and restaurants.
As I keep saying, you don't have to use soap. Water itself is a detergent.
While hiking the PCT I made sure to wash my feet and legs most nights. All it took was about a half cup of water and my bandana. Once in a while I would wash up at a stream. Just soaked my bandana in the water, no soap. I could scrub the important places without undressing completely. In the summer this is easier than when it is cold, but when it is cold, I don't sweat as much so it evens out. In towns I do laundry to hit the reset button on my clothes. I figured that was not enough to keep from really smelling awful, but it was enough to have a little self-respect.
I think a lot of hikers really reek bad because of their feet. Some people just have horrible smelly feet. And then they hang their stinky socks from their packs and a fume plume follows wherever they go. I hiked for a few days with a guy whose stinky socks were so awful I couldn't come within 40 feet of him on the trail. I kept begging him to please stop crossing creeks on logs and just wade instead. Please. But he prided himself on never getting his feet wet.
I do agree that not all body odour is unpleasant. If you take care to rinse your body and some clothes every day, you will still smell, but it will be much more pleasant, and much more healthy. This should be obvious. This shouldn't have to be told.
bulldog49
06-10-2010, 09:33
Maybe some thru hikers can give input here, but is there really any reason for hikers to smell so foul on the trail?
Uh, yes there is.
Is there any reason that they can't smell less foul?
CherrypieScout
06-10-2010, 09:59
I use wet wipes at lest once a day - usually at night before bed. I pack them out.
Bear Cables
06-10-2010, 10:03
Another reason to avoid taking a bath on the trail: having to dump a bucket full of soapy water somewhere in the woods. Even the relatively mild stuff is full of chemicals that are not good for plants and animals.
Save the baths for when you get home and your water can be properly treated.
I disagree. It doesn't take but a tiny bit of biodegradeble soap in the water to wash down. Even a water wipe down helps. What's wrong with just carrying some wet wipes to pack out and keeping the "nether regions" clean?
Seriously just take a little effort.
Bear Cables
06-10-2010, 10:07
As I keep saying, you don't have to use soap. Water itself is a detergent.
Exactly! I seldom use soap. A cold water or heat a little does the trick.
I would agree that a very tiny amount of bio-friendly soap wouldn't be much more harmful than wood ash, about the same really, and would be available even when wood ash isn't, and easier to get the concentration right. I would still use a little wood ash for pots and laundry when using biofuel and creating some wood ash, but it would make sense to carry a little bio-friendly soap for washing your body. Takes very little though. Water alone is often enough, especially if you have lots of it available. It is when water and biofuel are scarce that enviro-friendly cleaning gets more difficult, especially in high traffic areas. Usually you can pick your sights though, for less impact. It doesn't neccessarily have to be done in the morning, although that is the routine that I like. Sometimes a good swim or rinse at the end of the day also.
turtle fast
06-10-2010, 10:19
I have to agree with Pootz, I have noticed the 'high tech' clothing retains smell...especially polypropolyne. On the trail their is NO reason not to wash up at LEAST once or twice a week in towns. I wash my hands everyday with sanitizer and put some on my armpits (it works)...haven't tried 'south of the border'..kinda afraid to see what would happen. ;) Personal wipes for there at least every other day. There is no reason to REALLY STINK bad.
I disagree. It doesn't take but a tiny bit of biodegradeble soap in the water to wash down. Even a water wipe down helps. What's wrong with just carrying some wet wipes to pack out and keeping the "nether regions" clean?
Multiply a little bit of soap times thousands and thousands of hikers each year on the trail, most of which camp in high-use areas, and you have a big environmental mess. I don't see how dumping soapy water is consistent with "leave no trace" camping. If the water is soapy enough that you couldn't drink it, then it's probably poisonous to plants and animals.
Seriously just take a little effort.
All I can say to that is hike your own hike. If you don't want to hang around smelly hikers, don't stay in shelters. If you find someone's smell on the trail unpleasant, speed up and pass them or slow down and let them pass. As several folks above mentioned, even the best-scrubbed hiker will smell bad if they're wearing synthetic clothes. Just live with it.
Exactly! I seldom use soap. A cold water or heat a little does the trick.Yes alot of people think that soap is neccessary, that without it you don't kill germs. In fact most of washing is not about killing germs but just loosening them up and rinsing them off, along with some dead skin. You never rinse off all the germs either, and don't really want to. It is really more a case of maintaining a natural healthy and diverse eco-system on your skin and other places. Most of the microbes and friendly, and the stuff secreted by your body and in your dead skin is all part of maintaining a healthy mix where the good bugs greatly outnumber and displace the bad bugs. Water is mostly all that is needed. Warmer water works better because it works as a better solvent, and the higher temperature makes the oils on your skin less viscous also. Cold water will work though, especially on a long swim or walk in the rain.
Your nose knows the difference between healthy smells and unhealthy smells. It is true that we have gotten a little over-sensitive to body odour. A little muskiness isn't neccessarily a bad thing in the woods. Still, foul is foul. The more foul we smell, the more we should know it is time for a good wash and rinse cycle, and that we should avoid other people when they are smelling more than just a little too ripe. Even the most foul smelling animals understand this.
Multiply a little bit of soap times thousands and thousands of hikers each year on the trail, most of which camp in high-use areas, and you have a big environmental mess. I don't see how dumping soapy water is consistent with "leave no trace" camping. If the water is soapy enough that you couldn't drink it, then it's probably poisonous to plants and animals.
All I can say to that is hike your own hike. If you don't want to hang around smelly hikers, don't stay in shelters. If you find someone's smell on the trail unpleasant, speed up and pass them or slow down and let them pass. As several folks above mentioned, even the best-scrubbed hiker will smell bad if they're wearing synthetic clothes. Just live with it.
Is there anything wrong with washing with just water, no soap?
How about mixing in a little wood ash?
Are you advocating no washing at all, or just no soap?
Take a bath you smelly ba$*#rd.
Well, "typical" hiker smell is not all that unpleasant once you become one of them. I imagine it still shocks town folk and those who give us rides.
Try to clean up some for hitching and shopping. If staying in town, avail yourself of a shower and at least wear some clothes into the shower with you. Shampoo works wonders on dirty nylon shorts t-shirts. Then just wear them dry as you shop/eat.
I try to wipe down every evening, either wet bandanna or wet wipe. Helps to cut down the extreme offensive odors, plus removes some of the salt build-up, so reduces chaffing.
Some hikers, either due to their particular body chemistry or total lack of hygiene do REEK. These folks are offensive even to other typical hikers. No real excuse for that.
One week is not enough time to become accustomed to the smell, and thus stop being annoyed by it. Give yourself a couple or three weeks and you will probably not even notice it most of the time.
I remember accounts of the differences between native Americans and the European "invaders". Each side was appalled by the "stink" of the others - solely what was considered normal to each group.
Surely the spread and proliferation of certain germs and illnesses from humans to humans can't be good for the evironment either. Many animals are affected by human borne germs and illnesses. What we call beaver fever, they may well call human fever.
There is probably a wide range of what would be healthy. It should really be about health and hygiene, and the environment. Smell is just an indicator. If we are accustomed to no smell at all it might be a poor indicator, but as we get used to healthy and unhealthy hiker smell, it should be an excellent indicator. Some of us need to learn to listen. On high use trails personal hygiene is very important, not just for you and other people, but also for the environment.
I would suggest that it can be done without soap, but that a very small amount of an environmentally friendly soap might allow you to use cold water, which would save on fuel, biofuel or otherwise, which might be a good trade-off for the environment. A little wood ash might be used when biofuel is can be used, at least for dishes and laundry. You have to be a little more careful using wood ash for your body, so you use it a little more sparingly. Your body probably already has all the chemicals you need for washing already on it though, and especially in your hair. You just need hot water, or at least water that is not too cold, to free up and release those chemicals and spread them around before rinsing most of them off. That is the most basic and fundamental form of washing. Just getting yourself wet, and then drying yourself off.
That raises a good point also. Some sort of towel. Perhaps something wet to help scrub, and something at least initially dry to help dry yourself off, and in the process help slough off some dead skin and germs and stuff. Then the next step would be to wash and rinse those items, the wash cloth and the towel.
Then the business of laundry comes up, as well as your pot and mug and spoon. What order should you do things in? Perhaps wash your body first, then have breakfast, and then do your dishes. Can the same wash cloth and towel be used that was used for your body? What if you want to do a pair of socks also, or some underwear? This is all very interesting stuff. The use of lots of hot water makes these questions much simpler. When you are in places where fuel is scarce, or worse, when water is scarce, then things get more complicated. It is important to have a good routine though. Understanding the chemistry and biology helps, and then you have to establish a good routine.
The thing is, we are all creatures of habit, not scientists. This is as true for scientists as it is for the rest of us. We become accustomed to doing things a certain way in the city, and then either try to do them the same way or abandon them altogether when we are in the woods. What we really need to do is start from scratch, figure out what needs to be done from first principles what will work in the woods, or whatever environment we happen to be in, and then establish some routine and get the job done. Sometimes we can be told or shown what to do, but in this day and age we don't always have reliable experts to learn from, and at the end of the day we have to make our own choices, and establish our own routines. It can be lots of fun though, even for those of use less anally rententive than others.
Gray Blazer
06-10-2010, 12:05
I use wet wipes at lest once a day - usually at night before bed. I pack them out.
That's what I'm talkin' about.
One time I passed some little kids in Grayson Highlsnds after I had been out a few days. The little girl yelled back to her Mom, "Hey Mom! I smell some more ponies ahead!"
berkshirebirder
06-10-2010, 12:17
The little girl yelled back to her Mom, "Hey Mom! I smell some more ponies ahead!"
That explains why you're so humble, GB.
cleanliness aside, every hiker should at least carry a small bar of soap just in case they come in contact with poison ivy. Its everywhere.
Panzer
Gray Blazer
06-10-2010, 12:23
That explains why you're so humble, GB.
Definitely a humbling experience. :)
my trail philosophy is to wash daily, whenever practical.
Panzer
Was walking against the wind one hot day on the AT and smelled something dead up ahead.
Was scanning around looking for whatever had died and then it appeared...
It was a thru hiker, alive and walking :rolleyes:
Hikes in Rain
06-10-2010, 12:30
If the water is soapy enough that you couldn't drink it, then it's probably poisonous to plants and animals.
.
I humbly disagree. The main problem with soaps, and to a greater extent detergents, in the water column is algeal blooms from the nitrogen and phosphorous compounds in them. (Admittedly, there's a lot less phosphorous in detergents these days than in the past.
The key, then, is to dispose of the soapy water (and folks here are absolutely correct that you really don't need much at all) is to spread it widely well into the vegetated uplands, making sure that it can't run off into water bodies. A flip of the wrist will suffice. Soaps especially will break down very rapidly, and plants uptake the breakdown products as nutrient sources.
That said, I usually only use soap on my hands (I wear contact lenses), in a small basin of water. Often, I'll use what's left as a sponge bath. There's really very little left after that to toss.
restless
06-10-2010, 12:35
Maybe we can get the Appalchian Trail Conservancy to install showers at, say..oh..every other shelter! I mean lets be reasonable. We don't need two showers every day. But hey, we need to clean up at least once every day. Maybe they could install those little soap dispensers and fill them with Dr. Bronners. That way we could be clean smelling and clean and environmentally friendly. Perhaps we could talk hostel owners into selling single serve cologne and perfume pouches. That way when another hiker comes our way, they would never be able to smell our BAD smells, they would only smell the GOOD smells. But if that doesn't happen I guess the only thing we are left to do is close down the Appalachian Trail. I say that because it seems impossible to do any long distance hiking without breaking a sweat. And that means smells. BAD ones at that!!! EWWWWWWWWW!!!!! Wouldn't want that now would we? It might offend someone!??!! Moral of the story? Stink happens. If you don't like the way others smell, move on. Or better yet, find a new hobby where you won't have to smell me and I won't have to smell you.
Tuckahoe64
06-10-2010, 12:50
I humbly disagree. The main problem with soaps, and to a greater extent detergents, in the water column is algeal blooms from the nitrogen and phosphorous compounds in them. (Admittedly, there's a lot less phosphorous in detergents these days than in the past.
The key, then, is to dispose of the soapy water (and folks here are absolutely correct that you really don't need much at all) is to spread it widely well into the vegetated uplands, making sure that it can't run off into water bodies. A flip of the wrist will suffice. Soaps especially will break down very rapidly, and plants uptake the breakdown products as nutrient sources.
That said, I usually only use soap on my hands (I wear contact lenses), in a small basin of water. Often, I'll use what's left as a sponge bath. There's really very little left after that to toss.
Hikes, thanks for the use of logic. There is nothing wrong with using soap. Keeping yourself clean is also keeping yourself healthy and soap is far superior than using just water.
Also, choose a soap that has no phosphates, or at least very little. A liquid soap made from potassium hydroxide will have less, but still some. That is, wood ash, and soap made from wood ash, will still have some phosphates. You have to figure that wood ash, or soap made from it, would be ok for the environment, as long as it is a small amount.
I am not sure that camp suds is actually the best for the environment,
if you do choose to use some soap. Does anyone know?
I know alcohol is safe for the environment. So just using water, and a little alcohol here and there now and then, is a good way to go. We do tend to over-emphasis the neccessity of using soap. The most essential thing is water, not soap.
Hikes in Rain
06-10-2010, 13:14
Can't answer to the camp suds; never checked out what's in it. I usually use plain Ivory soap for most of my soap needs, home or trail. That centers around the contacts again; Ivory is just soap, no oils or scents to stay on my hands and get into my eyes. After wiping the sweat off my greasy face all day, I have to use something to get the oils off! Alcohol isn't the best idea for that. Burns your eye like you wouldn't believe.
flemdawg1
06-10-2010, 13:15
:rolleyes:Should we mix Tea, wool sweaters and currants with the wood ash?
Latest research says currantly no, but I will try and get back to you on that.
The tea sounds interesting though.
on_the_GOEZ
06-10-2010, 13:24
As far as washing goes, I tend to splash some water under the pits and legs, around the neck and on the face. That being said... I am a firm believer that showering everyday with hot water and soap (as many do off the trail) is bad for the skin. Personally, I dont shower but 3 times a week. Oils on the skin are good indeed and should remain there...for a while ; )
In order to cut down on smell I use baking soda under my arms (on and off the trail) which convienently doubles as toothpaste (for all of the minimalists out there). I find that it works well.. but thats just me. Anyone every used baking soda for these purposes as well?
... And that means smells. BAD ones at that!!! EWWWWWWWWW!!!!! Wouldn't want that now would we? It might offend someone!??!! Moral of the story? Stink happens. If you don't like the way others smell, move on. Or better yet, find a new hobby where you won't have to smell me and I won't have to smell you.
part of the problem is when smelly hikers go into restaurants. Restaurants don't like having smelly hikers in their establishments. They don't understand why hikers smell so bad.
Panzer
Hikes in Rain
06-10-2010, 13:26
Hey, Jak, this reminds me of something I've done occasionally. Your mention of wood-ash soap is what did it. After frying something while camping, have you ever mixed hardwood ash from the fire with the leftover grease in the pan to make a crude soap for dishes? I read that in (I think) Kephart's Camping and Woodcraft when I was a kid. Naturally, I had to try it, and it really works!
on_the_GOEZ
06-10-2010, 13:29
Also, choose a soap that has no phosphates, or at least very little. A liquid soap made from potassium hydroxide will have less, but still some. That is, wood ash, and soap made from wood ash, will still have some phosphates. You have to figure that wood ash, or soap made from it, would be ok for the environment, as long as it is a small amount.
I am not sure that camp suds is actually the best for the environment,
if you do choose to use some soap. Does anyone know?
Camp suds says that it is biodegradable but I wouldnt allow more than a drop or two to seep into the ground for every shelter.. and knowing some of the shelters there are lots of hikers who could all potentially use soap...So basically, its not safe.. Dr. B's is also a good, biodegradable soap but the same rule applies.. Very little if any in the wilderness.
I must say though, the white ash idea is intriguing, indeed!
Hikes in Rain
06-10-2010, 13:31
)
In order to cut down on smell I use baking soda under my arms (on and off the trail) which convienently doubles as toothpaste (for all of the minimalists out there). I find that it works well.. but thats just me. Anyone every used baking soda for these purposes as well?
I did, back in my old hippy days in the '70's. I still smelled like a goat using it as a deoderant. Maybe because my pits can litterally drip sometimes! Works nicely as toothpaste, though; really freshens the breath. Most of oral care is the physical action of brushing, anyway.
Old Hiker
06-10-2010, 13:32
The tea sounds interesting though.
Texas tea? I'll send some up from the Gulf. We have plenty right now! :eek:
on_the_GOEZ
06-10-2010, 13:33
I did, back in my old hippy days in the '70's. I still smelled like a goat using it as a deoderant. Maybe because my pits can litterally drip sometimes! Works nicely as toothpaste, though; really freshens the breath. Most of oral care is the physical action of brushing, anyway.
I never said that baking soda was an anitperspirant! ; ) I too still drip but BS combined with daily warshing usually does the trick.. And I love the way my teeth feel after I use baking soda and brush. Squeeky Cleen!!!
Hey, Jak, this reminds me of something I've done occasionally. Your mention of wood-ash soap is what did it. After frying something while camping, have you ever mixed hardwood ash from the fire with the leftover grease in the pan to make a crude soap for dishes? I read that in (I think) Kephart's Camping and Woodcraft when I was a kid. Naturally, I had to try it, and it really works!Interesting. I haven't done it after cooking bacon, because I haven't done bacon since starting on the wood ash thing. I am curious about the same think though. I think the reaction of the wood ash with water can happen fairly quick, and doesn't need to be complete because the wood ash is also useful as an abrasive cleanser. Then once you have some potassium hydroxide from that reaction you are going to start getting some sort of reaction with the fatty acids from the bacon fat, which created soap and glycerine through saponification, which I think is just the reaction of fatty acids with the potassium chloride, an alkyline. I am not sure how fast that reaction takes place either, but I would think it starts right way, but takes longer to work all the way through if you want it more complete. But for camping purposes it doesn't have to be complete, and with small quantities it would be more complete sooner. Scrubbing and hot water would speed it up. Too much water might slow it down, but you don't want the potassium chloride solution to be too strong either.
The interesting thing is we have grease in our hair and on our bodies also, so a little wood ash would react with water and them react with the grease, forming soap, but even without the wood ash I would betcha that this is already taking place naturally to some degree, from potassium and phosphorous and other such things being excreted with the grease from our skin, and all the biological enzymes and microbes doing their thing also. So just water should be enough to keep things bio-degrading and sloughing off naturally, but a little wood ash might help. You would have to be more careful with the wood ash on your skin and hair though, as the potassium chloride solution can burn the skin and even kill your hair cuticles if it is too strong. Potassium Chloride is used as a hair remover, and in stronger concentrations as a drain cleaner. It's a very natural substance, but its all a matter of concentration.
As far as routine goes, timing is the thing. I would normally wash before breakfast, but maybe after tea, so maybe save a little wood ash from making the tea, and maybe a little left over tea in my dilute shampoo / body wash solution also. For doing laundry and dishes, you wouldn't have to be so careful. Just some good scrubbing action with some wood ash and whatever residue is left in the pot and mug, tea or oatmeal or whatever. For laundry I would want the pot to be clean and probably start over with fresh water for the final rinse, but maybe the socks or underwear or whatever could go right in with the dish water for the initial soak. Not sure. I wouldn't normally wash underwear with socks at home or at the gym, because of fungi, but in the woods with all that wood ash and oatmeal and sticks and stuff who knows what's going on in their. The most important thing would be a good final hot water rinse, which is probably all that is really required in the first place.
Oatmeal and tea and wood ash soap.
Have fun with it. Don't feed the bears. :)
I never said that baking soda was an anitperspirant! ; ) I too still drip but BS combined with daily warshing usually does the trick.. And I love the way my teeth feel after I use baking soda and brush. Squeeky Cleen!!!
Baking soda is alot like wood ash, except it is sodium based rather than potassium based, and it has already form hydroxide, whereas the wood ash needs a little time to react with water to form the hydroxide. I think I have that right. I know you can use wood ash to make bread, just as you would use baking soda to make bread. Pretzels and some other things are made with a lime water bath. Similarly, you could use wood ash to brush your teeth instead of baking soda. The important thing is to let the reaction complete first, and then keep rinse it some more. I think you are suppose to pick out all the bits of charcoal also. It sounds pretty sketchy to me though. I would use it more as a dilute mouth rinse if anything. You can definitely use wood ash for making biscuits though.
Alcohol is a wonderful general use product. It would be most useful in the form of ethanol, at 99% or so, and then you can use it as fuel and dilute it down for use in first aid, or as a underarm deodorant, or as a mouthwash. Ideally it would be pure ethanol, so as to be more safe. You would have to pay taxes of course, unless you had access to a still, but ethanol is really the idea alcohol fuel because it has all these other uses. Other alcohols can only be used safely for some of them. I'm not really big Gin or Vodka fan, but I will often pick up an cheap and interesting bottle of gin at the duty free in Calais or New Hampshire, and use it at home for aftershave and deodorant and mouthwash. Even with the taxes it is about the same price as I would pay for old spice or listerine. I might add my own spices some day, but for now I sometimes mix in a little old spice for aftershave and deodorant, and maybe mix in a little flouride rinse for the mouthwash. Gin already has some juniper berries mixed in though, and other stuff, so it is good to go as is. 40-43% alcohol doesn't make it useful as fuel for hiking, but maybe next trip I will bring along a little Gin, for all these other purposes. Good stuff. I suppose whiskey or bourbon could be used the same way. Stronger flavour and aroma, but what the heck.
Before anyone runs off and burns or blinds themselves, or goes bald, or loses their teeth, or poisons themselves, this might be a good read.
http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/projects/potash/
Should one brush their teeth? or just wait till you are done hiking? I have ran across some people with some stanky breath too
:rolleyes:Should we mix Tea, wool sweaters and currants with the wood ash?
Depends on how cold and hard the wind is blowing. ;)
Hikes in Rain
06-10-2010, 14:25
You're spot on with the chemical reactions. Old pioneers use to make weak lye by pouring rain water through ashes. I think they'd boil it down to concentrate it, too. Then, mixed with fat, it's classic lye soap. Works the same way in the frying pan, just not as complete nor as fine. But as you said, for dishes, it works very nicely.
The reaction does proceed quickly. Stir in some ash, and it starts to coagulate almost immediately. The resulting soap is pretty brown and watery, but since the fat is now bound up in the soap, it rinses clean.
Who knew keeping clean should be so much fun!
hellomolly
06-10-2010, 14:41
Should one brush their teeth? or just wait till you are done hiking? I have ran across some people with some stanky breath too
:eek: Seriously?! I mean people can have stinky breath even if they do brush but to not brush at all... do people REALLY do that?! Wow. Disgusting!
I second what someone said about alcohol - great for multiple uses. Dries the oil and makes you feel at least somewhat clean. I bring a baggy of odorless babywipes and use one at night in camp before changing into camp clothes/additional layers. Having a clean face, neck, hands and feet really does wonders for your feelings of overall cleanliness. Brush my teeth in the morning and night and also shave under my arms. Works for me.
glad to see someone else has good hygiene. apparently it is few and far between
You're spot on with the chemical reactions. Old pioneers use to make weak lye by pouring rain water through ashes. I think they'd boil it down to concentrate it, too. Then, mixed with fat, it's classic lye soap. Works the same way in the frying pan, just not as complete nor as fine. But as you said, for dishes, it works very nicely.
The reaction does proceed quickly. Stir in some ash, and it starts to coagulate almost immediately. The resulting soap is pretty brown and watery, but since the fat is now bound up in the soap, it rinses clean.
Who knew keeping clean should be so much fun!
Better living through modern chemistry, and not so modern chemistry. :)
Odd Man Out
06-10-2010, 15:03
This is the saponification reaction:
fat plus ash makes soap
aka
triacylglycerol plus hydroxide salts makes fatty acid conjugate base salts
Why not just use a bar of ivory soap. It's just plain, pure biodegradable natural soap. Just don't use it in the lake or stream.
I like messing around with primitive ideas. For teeth, I remember in grade 2 or 3 they taught us the origin of the modern toothbrush was when people like the vikings used to use willow or other twig, which in addition to being crushed into a suitable brush using your molars also provides some medication and flavour. I'm not sure the vikings were the first, but they were a Germanic tribe, and you know the Germans make good stuff.
I since learned that yellow birch contains wintergreen, so it is particularly tastey. You can make tea out of the inner bark of these trees also. Using them as a toothbrush is a good way of taking samples to see what might make a nice hot or cold tea.
Hikes in Rain
06-10-2010, 15:13
What would be the fun in that?!? Actually, back a few posts, that's exactly what I recommend. ;)
This is the saponification reaction:
fat plus ash makes soap
aka
triacylglycerol plus hydroxide salts makes fatty acid conjugate base salts
Why not just use a bar of ivory soap. It's just plain, pure biodegradable natural soap. Just don't use it in the lake or stream.
The only real advantage of wood ash over a enviro-friendly soap is that you don't have to bring it with you. If you don't use biomass for fuel, it would be better to bring a little camp suds and alcohol than to bring some wood ash.
I think ivory soap might be made from sodium hydroxide lime rather than potassium hydroxide lime. Potassium is more natural to the environment. I am not sure where phosphates enter the picture. I know you can get phosphorous from burning bones, to get bone ash, just as you can get potash from burning wood. But of course there will be some phosphorous in many species of wood also, so you will get some phosphates from wood ash too maybe. Perhaps more from softwoods than hardwoods. Not sure. I should probably read that link I posted above.
Anyhow, I don't think ivory soap is the best choice. Some potassium based soap would be more environmentally compatable because it is more plant based, and so natural and tolerable in somewhat higher concentrations than phosphates and sodium. Not sure where nitrates enter into it. They are in plants also, mostly in the leaves, but don't stay in the environment as long after a plant dies. Potassium derived soaps tend to be liquid, but that is easier to use in small quantities as you don't have to deal with a wet soap bar, or potentially soggy soap powder.
ChinMusic
06-10-2010, 15:20
My next step is to try switching to wool instead of the synthetics I'm currently using....
Wearing a wool top and socks eliminates 95% of the issue.
I ONLY wear wool socks now (on trail and off) and can't even make my shoes stink anymore.
This is a good article by Buck Tilton on Camp Hygiene: http://troop655.org/cd/High%20Adventure/First%20Aid/NOLS-WMI%20Articles/archive/hygiene.html
Here is a quote about hand washing:
"For most of us, hot water is a rare wilderness commodity. But you can still get clean hands with this modified backcountry technique which substitutes germicidal soap for hot water. In tests, adequate hand sanitation was achieved with as little as one half-liter of water. 1. Wet hands thoroughly. 2. Add a small amount of germicidal soap (Betadine Scrub® or Hibiclens® will work well). 3. Work lather up, especially fingertips. 4. Clean under fingernails (and keep your nails trimmed). 5. Rinse thoroughly. 6. Repeat soap, lather and rinse. 7. Dry.
Sure, it's a bother . . . but so is getting sick."
I think that one reason people do not wash is that after some time of being dirty, the skin chaffs, abrades, boils and generally becomes quite tender due to salt and bacteria. It can actually be painful to wash, especially with soap.
I try to stay clean and use mostly unscented products. Hibiclens is very effective and I usually carry a small bottle. Skin is a most important organ and works better when it is clean.
Don't be suprised if people avoid you when you smell. Humans are hard wired to avoid bad smells, especially around food.
on_the_GOEZ
06-10-2010, 15:34
Regular hand washing goes without saying. Eating, toilet use, even just going to bed.. This is the easiest way to stay healthy, IMO.
@JAK - I imagine white ash extract, or the water-combo, would work for simple handwashing. Do you think this would be a good replacement for hand sanitizers given that there is enough to use on a regular basis? I tear through the hand-sani's when im out there.. a natural replacment would be very invited!
Blue Jay
06-10-2010, 16:05
It's really quite simple. If you don't like smelly people you may want to either hike another trail or hike the sections of the AT when there are few thrus, which is in fact most of the time. This is somewhat like the "I hate shelters" threads. It hurts when I do that, well don't do that. I prefer a hot wet shelter filled with thrus to some of you posy scented aftershave dandies.:banana
I'm going to always vote for regular bathing, when ever and however possible. It may not be important to some, it is to me.
It's really quite simple. If you don't like smelly people you may want to either hike another trail or hike the sections of the AT when there are few thrus, which is in fact most of the time. This is somewhat like the "I hate shelters" threads. It hurts when I do that, well don't do that. I prefer a hot wet shelter filled with thrus to some of you posy scented aftershave dandies.:banana
soap can be a hard sell on WB
Panzer
Jonnycat
06-10-2010, 19:35
I try to take a ho bath each evening, or I'll take a quick swim if it's warm enough. Occasionally I am too exhausted to do either, and will have to go to bed sticky (which is a terrible way to sleep).
Also, I use deodorant, and brush and floss with the same regularity as I do at home.
Call me a rebel, but just because one is backpacking is no reason to forgo basic hygiene.
I started wearing a silk camisole (undershirt with "spagetti" straps) for hiking. It washes out well and dries fast. I also use quick dry synthetic underwear. I am too modest to have these things hang off my backpack, and so, I choose backpacks with stretchy netting on the back. In fact, that is the reason I purchased my first GoLite backpack.
Now, I wear that style camisole undershirt, every day, because it is so comfortable.
It also works perfectly under an oversize see-thru supplex nylon "fisherman's shirt" with netting ventilation panels on the sides and back for hot weather.
Men have string undershirts, but cotton is slow to dry after washed.
Maybe men have silk undershirts? I know men have caprilene undershirts, and lightweight caprilene dries fast.
I also choose medium weight silk longjohns pants, because silk is least likely to take on odor. My favorite winter weather longjohns are a percentage each of silk and wool.
I did find medum weight REI Smartwool is soft. I understand it is highly odor resistant. I have yet to pay $89 to find out.
I have good results with Stanfield's "Red Label" wool and nylon longjohns.
I have had good results with silver thread or silver ions worked into synthetic, for socks and for tights. I like hiking in loose-fit tights, my favorite garment for outdoor activities.
I use Sea to Summit soap leaves for washing up. I read once, at this forum, one person put a nail hole in the lid of a soda pop bottle and used that lid for directing water to the right places, squeezing water as needed. I use the Jason Klass water bottle system video for handwashing and for rinsing off cookware each meal.
I also have and use unscented alcohol-free wipes. I have found a biodegradable version but I still pack it out.
These are my "game plan" for keeping reasonably fresh.
It takes real effort to avoid "hiker stink".
take a large drink of water from your water bottle, holding a bar of soap in your hands slowly squirt the water out of your mouth onto your hands and wash your hands. repeat to rinse.
Panzer
glad to see someone else has good hygiene. apparently it is few and far between
Unfortunately, it is few and far between.
I get looks cause I carry a Sea and Summit shower( multi purpose of course) and use it for a shower every other day or so, along with a daily sponging, as there is no reason except laziness for stinking. If you have smelly feet, use something like Flexall at night. As for smelly clothes, pack some clean, fresh ones in your bounce box or invest in some Tide with Febreze Sports detergent( it works so well :sun). Cleanliness is next to Godliness. It's hike your own hike, not stink your own stink.
p.s. I shave too. ;)
Old Grouse
06-11-2010, 07:37
Wait a minute. I' still thinking about JAK gargling in cheap gin and splashing it under his arms. The RCMP must love to see him coming!
BigFoot2002
06-11-2010, 15:56
Purell. After using the bathroom, and before eating.
vonfrick
06-11-2010, 16:12
The only real advantage of wood ash over a enviro-friendly soap is that you don't have to bring it with you. If you don't use biomass for fuel, it would be better to bring a little camp suds and alcohol than to bring some wood ash.
I think ivory soap might be made from sodium hydroxide lime rather than potassium hydroxide lime. Potassium is more natural to the environment. I am not sure where phosphates enter the picture. I know you can get phosphorous from burning bones, to get bone ash, just as you can get potash from burning wood. But of course there will be some phosphorous in many species of wood also, so you will get some phosphates from wood ash too maybe. Perhaps more from softwoods than hardwoods. Not sure. I should probably read that link I posted above.
Anyhow, I don't think ivory soap is the best choice. Some potassium based soap would be more environmentally compatable because it is more plant based, and so natural and tolerable in somewhat higher concentrations than phosphates and sodium. Not sure where nitrates enter into it. They are in plants also, mostly in the leaves, but don't stay in the environment as long after a plant dies. Potassium derived soaps tend to be liquid, but that is easier to use in small quantities as you don't have to deal with a wet soap bar, or potentially soggy soap powder.
sodium salts precipitate the fatty acid chain into a solid soap
potassium salts precipitate out as a liquid soap
i can't see any difference between the two environmentally, unless of course nature is suffering from hypertension, then go with the K :)
the goat
06-11-2010, 16:42
The Guy hadn't washed in weeks? I'm sorry but there is NO excuse for this.
for one, thrus are in town every single week at least once. Then there are streams. That is just plain unhealthy. Hmm.. I wonder if he ever succeeded in hitching a ride? :-?
i did from rutland, vt to SNP without a shower...probably the healthiest 7 weeks of my life.
i bet they don't take showers at home, bad upbringing, no self pride, who knows. Take a shower and lets move on
I carry an inflatable dog bowl. Very ultralight.
To wash up, I inflate that bowl, fill with water from a stream, spring, etc., and wipe down well with a bandanna (no soap). Rarely is there any water left in the bowl, but if there is I scatter it where it will do no harm (it's just water anyway).
I also carry a small bottle of wintergreen alcohol sourced from a larger bottle—found in WalMart, drug stores, Dollar General, etc. really cheap. After the bandanna bath, I pat down all the important places with the green alcohol, inside my tent. Very soothing and it smells good, too.
This doesn't deal directly with the issue of stinky clothes, but it does keep oneself smelling OK enough—and clean. If you are relatively clean, tho, your clothing will likely get less pungent while hiking. I've also noticed certain synthetics have kept their odors no matter how often they're washed. Others not as much.
for all of the UL hikers on this site you would think they would want to ditch the 4.8 grams of filth they have to carry on their bodies
Bear Cables
06-11-2010, 17:05
i did from rutland, vt to SNP without a shower...probably the healthiest 7 weeks of my life.
Well then...that's explains you name , "Goat" :-?
I've smelled enough dirty people in my job to do me a lifetime...sorry its just how I see it....or smell it.
i did from rutland, vt to SNP without a shower...probably the healthiest 7 weeks of my life.
why? :confused:
Panzer
why? :confused:
Panzer
Probably cause he liked the smell of his own stank. :rolleyes:
And wanted others to enjoy it too. :rolleyes:
for all of the UL hikers on this site you would think they would want to ditch the 4.8 grams of filth they have to carry on their bodies
Now that's funny and true at the same time, though they will argue that carrying soap can weigh more than 4.8 grams so why bother. But if they drill holes in their soap...:rolleyes:
Probably cause he liked the smell of his own stank. :rolleyes:
And wanted others to enjoy it too. :rolleyes:
Did i post that ? Must have been a friday night PUI event ( posting under the influence)
This is what it should have said:
Although he didn't shower for x hundreds of miles, he probably figure out a way to sponge/bandana bathe that worked well for him .
Actually, from my experience meeting thru hikers on the northern end of the AT, most are quite concioucs of their stank if they have much and are somewhat apologetic about it when with non thru hikers and the public in general.
However, there are always a few who give up entirely on cleaning themselves and are thoroughly disgusting , end of rant. :D
Of the years I worked in ER one particular trucker who wrecked and was brought in by EMS with a broken leg. We had to take his pants and socks off to check the leg.......reminds me of an old song by Skynard. Ewww that smell, can you smell that smell..............eww that smell...the smell of death surrounds you.
the goat
06-12-2010, 09:10
why? :confused:
Panzer
because i didn't hate being dirty, but i hated getting dirty. just got tired of cleaning up when i knew i would be filthy again in 12 hours.
the way i figure you can't get any smellier than 7 days w/o a shower anyways. no difference b/t day 7 & day 47.
the goat
06-12-2010, 09:13
i bet they don't take showers at home, bad upbringing, no self pride, who knows. Take a shower and lets move on
shower twice a day at home.
had a great upbringing.
i'm much cooler, smarter and better looking than you.
huh, so much for that theory.....:rolleyes:
Trailbender
08-22-2010, 16:44
Was walking against the wind one hot day on the AT and smelled something dead up ahead.
Was scanning around looking for whatever had died and then it appeared...
It was a thru hiker, alive and walking :rolleyes:
I was in Virginia, smelled something really bad, was like "I really need a shower". I came around the corner and there was a dead chicken beside the trail.
Wise Old Owl
08-22-2010, 17:37
Yikes. I wreak after 24 hours on the trail.
Here are a few reasons to avoid taking a lengthy sponge bath:
Cold
Rain
Snow
Wind
Exhaustion
Bugs
Hungry
Mileage
Inexperience
During my training hikes earlier this year I simply didn't know how to keep myself clean. I was nasty when I got back home. Disgusting. Eww. I was still having trouble during the first week of my hike. By then I was doing much better, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm still learning.
I left a month early this year and I wouldn't do anything more than a quick wet nap bath on the trail because I'd get too cold. Not to mention that I was slow enough that I needed to be hiking during all the daylight hours, and of course it would be cold once the sun went down. During the second month it got warmer and I cleaned up more, but I also needed to because I was sweating more.
Actually, while I didn't exactly smell like springtime, a lot of the stink was in my clothing. I still haven't figured out a good enough way to wash my clothes on the trail to get the stink out. On my last day on the trail I washed my clothes several times using gallons of bleached water and soap, but my clothes still stunk. It doesn't help that I'm completely stoveless, so I can't do a hot wash and hot washes in town are the only thing that've killed the smell.
For a while I carried a shirt solely for hitching. It made a huge difference.
My next step is to try switching to wool instead of the synthetics I'm currently using. Too bad wool clothing is so expensive...not that my synthetics were inexpensive...
The micropolys have almost put wool clothing out of business, the secret is making a thread smaller than wool and human hair to trap more air around the body.
With all those excuses not to bath or take a swim up above, you might want to trap more air.....:p
Why not stand in a downpour of rain?
ashleigh22
12-27-2010, 12:27
A small bottle (or bar) of Dr. Bronner's never hurt anyone.. Soap, deodorant, and toothpaste all in one. :eek:
Fog Horn
12-27-2010, 19:21
I like messing around with primitive ideas. For teeth, I remember in grade 2 or 3 they taught us the origin of the modern toothbrush was when people like the vikings used to use willow or other twig, which in addition to being crushed into a suitable brush using your molars also provides some medication and flavour. I'm not sure the vikings were the first, but they were a Germanic tribe, and you know the Germans make good stuff.
I since learned that yellow birch contains wintergreen, so it is particularly tastey. You can make tea out of the inner bark of these trees also. Using them as a toothbrush is a good way of taking samples to see what might make a nice hot or cold tea.
The Arabs chew on a Miswak during Ramadan because they cannot brush their teeth while fasting. Its easy to use, doesn't taste minty though. I'm not a fan of it but you might be interested.
http://www.simplyislam.com/images/products/53269.jpg
http://www.simplyislam.com/iteminfo.asp?item=53269 (http://www.simplyislam.com/iteminfo.asp?item=53269)
The Arabs chew on a Miswak during Ramadan because they cannot brush their teeth while fasting.
screw that Arab chew stick...
Panzer
Buzz Saw
12-28-2010, 08:50
I've posted this before, but a company out of Canada (NORWEX) makes clothes that kill the bacteria that causes odor using only water. They are reusable just have to be rinsed out and dried. I have used mine without any soap and so far have not offended anyone. I plan on keeping clean on my coming thru, but HYOH just please stay down wind.
Awol1970
12-28-2010, 10:05
screw that Arab chew stick...
Panzer
That right there made me spit my coffee.
Fog Horn
12-28-2010, 11:47
That right there made me spit my coffee.
Made me giggle as well :)
WILLIAM HAYES
12-29-2010, 00:13
i use hunters scent free underarm deoderant you can get at wally world and wash every night using biodegradable soap and an extra nalgene lid that i have drilled holes in =works well with little addiional pack weight
No one has mentioned that after days of rain.. you will smell like a dead cat even if you love your hygiene and at some point.. nothing will remove the funk from your backpack. I have washed mine 4 or 5 more times.. still smells faintly of dead.
4eyedbuzzard
12-29-2010, 08:18
The Arabs chew on a Miswak during Ramadan because they cannot brush their teeth while fasting. Its easy to use, doesn't taste minty though. I'm not a fan of it but you might be interested.
http://www.simplyislam.com/images/products/53269.jpg
http://www.simplyislam.com/iteminfo.asp?item=53269 (http://www.simplyislam.com/iteminfo.asp?item=53269)
Looks like a Dentastix. I buy those things for my dog. :-?