View Full Version : Cold night in summer revealed a solution
Wise Old Owl
08-04-2010, 00:07
Hey if you have done this or thought of this already, my opologies.
This past weekend was beyond chilly for a one pound down bag so I grabbed my "Gortex like" rain jacket and put it on and I was surprised how well I slept in the cold. I didn't have anything else to grab. It really worked!
Good stuff. It is surprising sometimes how we can overlook solutions that are right in front of us. I had some bad blisters once from trying a summer hike without socks, using sneakers that were sort of sandal-like, but not really. Anyhow, after several miles of torture, with some relief with a few scraps of duct tape I had, it finally occured to me to walk barefoot for a few miles. It was like heaven, especially the spruce needles but even the rocks compared to what I had been doing to myself. I had to laugh for not having thought of it sooner.
An interesting question I've thought about but haven't really tested out much...
For really colder than expected nights - When is it a good strategy to sit up to stay warm rather than to lie down? I've had a few experiences with this, but none have been conclusive. It depends somewhat on the gear you bring. Also, ground temperature vs air temperature. Wind and rain, and whether or not you can make a fire, also factor in. So far what I do is bring my gear with both modes of survival in mind. That way if I do wake up cold I can get up and stomp around, then build a fire or light up the stove and sit up and make tea with honey before going back to bed. It really depends on what sort of sitting position you can get yourself into though, so that it minimizes surface area and heat loss without being to uncomfortable. You don't want to fall asleep and into the fire either. A big tree for a backrest can help. A hollow tree would be awesome, but still rather heavy to carry.
MattBuck30
08-04-2010, 09:24
I carried a tent for most of my 2008 thru hike. When I had my summer bag and it would get real chilly at night, I would stay in a lean-to and wrap my tent fly around me after I climbed in my sleeping bag. The tent fly really helped alot and kept me warm til morning!
I have found that the warmest position I can sleep in is to lay on my stomach with my arms completely under me.
Wise Old Owl
08-04-2010, 16:39
SB I can't imagine that, and I already know I can't sleep that way, it would ruffle my feathers.
I have found that the warmest position I can sleep in is to lay on my stomach with my arms completely under me.
yep, I do that, too
Wrangler88
08-05-2010, 09:23
I have found that the warmest position I can sleep in is to lay on my stomach with my arms completely under me.
I'll third this. When I'm sleeping cold ... This is a good solution.
mtnkngxt
08-05-2010, 21:11
Boil water and then store in water bottle between thighs. Really gets the warm blood pumping.
Wise Old Owl
08-05-2010, 23:06
I agree but I didn't want to get up again to light the noisy stove.
Some of the other bits most have but don't necessarily think of using are spare socks for mittens, stuff sacks/plastic bags over the feet (over socks) ,a cotton handkerchief (still use that backpacking...) over the face (bandit style) and anything else available (pack,maps,other stuff sacks) under the mat to increase insulation.
I bet that some forget about the hat too...(you know : cold feet ? put a hat on)
Franco
Completely off topic, but next to "muscle weighs more than fat" my next pet peeve is the thing about "you lose (insert a high percentage here..) through your head."
The head is just another body part - it doesn't radiate heat any more (or less) than any other body part. See http://wildernessmedicinenewsletter.wordpress.com/2007/02/14/heat-loss-through-the-head-and-hypothermia/.
I'm sure you can google for a more scholarly version but this makes the point.
Toolshed
08-06-2010, 08:11
Woo, I think topping it off, your GTX acted more as a VBL than anything else and kept the microclimate within the jacket just comfortble enough for you...
10 K
Some (specialists in the field) disagree..
See :
http://www.sarec.ca/ice/h-loss.htm (http://www.sarec.ca/ice/h-loss.htm)
First paragraph : Thirty percent of body heat is lost through the neck and head so it is especially important to cover these areas well.
or here :
http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/54/Hypothermia.html
(30-50% of body heat is lost through the head). Penultimate paragraph.
BTW from your link :
If the hypothermia victim is not shivering, they are at rest, and the heat loss through the head remains about 7%. But, this is important, if they are shivering, the percent of heat loss via the scalp can increase to upwards of 55%, so protecting the head well is a very important part of treating the hypothermia patient.
I feel that there has to be a transition between that 7% and the up to 55% ...
Maybe it has to do with the fact that yes your head may be about 10% of the body surface but contains about 15-20% of the blood.
The "cold feet ? put a hat on..." is actually not in conflict at all with the all body parts are equal, it is just a reminder that you need to cover the head as well as the rest of your body.
Franco
10 k
Muscle is heavier (denser) than fat.
That does not mean that a pound of muscle is heavier than a pound of fat, it means that it takes less space.
http://www.onemorebite-weightloss.com/muscle-to-fat.html (http://www.onemorebite-weightloss.com/muscle-to-fat.html)
Franco
Hey if you have done this or thought of this already, my opologies.
This past weekend was beyond chilly for a one pound down bag so I grabbed my "Gortex like" rain jacket and put it on and I was surprised how well I slept in the cold. I didn't have anything else to grab. It really worked!
Of course. Since Goretex is less breathable than uncoated nylon it acted like a partial vapor barrier, keeping mosto of your insensible perspiration out of the insulation and making it that much more efficient. I have used my poncho inside a cheap synth. bag (WAAAAAAAAAAAY back when) when the temps got unusually cool.
Woo, I think topping it off, your GTX acted more as a VBL than anything else and kept the microclimate within the jacket just comfortble enough for you...
Having just read this I have to admit that someone else beat me to the punch!:o
Wise Old Owl
08-06-2010, 22:21
Nothing like a breathable rain jacket,
Are you saying that there is nothing like a breathable rain jacket, or
that your jacket is nothing like a breathable rain jacket?
Wise Old Owl
08-06-2010, 22:28
I have two breathable rain jackets, I pick them up on clearence as they come up off season, one is in the 9 oz range.
I don't like the "x% heat loss through the head" stuff either. The surface temperature in the head and neck region can be higher, especially when you are starting to go hypothermic, but I think the general rule should be that when you are wearing all the layers you brought, or sleeping in coldest night mode, you have all body parts covered equally, and perhaps the head, neck, and core covered somewhat more equally than others. The head and neck region get a little tricky because you have to breath, and during the day you need to see also, and hearing is also a good option.
Wise Old Owl
08-06-2010, 22:41
Jak you carry a fleese beenie in summer? I'm confused
WOL
Carry a (warm) hat in summer ?
I do..
Here is a different way to look at weight for warmth.
This is how I see it, it may not work for you...
My lightest hiking top is 160 g (5.6 oz) . I could get lighter but Merino wool works for me in any weather even when wet. (IB Tee, 140)
My gloves (40g) and my beanie (45g), 3 oz total, are about half of that weight.
Now, let's say that I am inside my sleeping bag and cold, what do you think will warm me up more the 3oz gloves/hat combo or my 5.6 oz top ?
Better still get a 3 oz silk top and see if you can match the warmth of the 3 oz glove/hat, in fact make that the hat alone...
Of course this is only valid if you could only choose one or the other.
I am convinced that the commonest problem with keeping warm or cool is mismatching.
That is people that at 32 F use a 20f sleeping bag and a 40 f mat.(sweat on top, shiver on bottom)
Or people that keep putting torso layers on , forgetting head and hands covering.
Here is another experiment.
Say you are crossing a windy ridge at 40 f. You are getting cold.
You have a couple of layers on , your choice is, again, that 5.6 oz top or the 3 oz gloves and hat.
Which one do you think will be more effective ?
Make that top a puffy jacket. You will still be cold whilst at the same time sweating and therefore getting progressively colder from a wet back and evaporation.
Bottom line , to me, a 1.6oz hat (when added to what I am wearing ..) will keep me warmer than any other 1.6oz bit of clothing.
Franco
BTW, that hat/glove combo is merino wool and possum down, very warm for the weight.
Jak you carry a fleese beenie in summer? I'm confusedThin alpaca wool with ear flaps. Mostly for sleeping.
Same idea as what Franco said. When you have it all on, for the coldest day or night of that particular season, you are more or less layered evenly. Most of the time it is not that cold, and you can delayer unevenly. Like taking your hat off, or hiking in a thin long sleeved sweater with shorts, or throwing a bare leg out of the sleeping bag when its hot.
Layer evenly. Delayer unevenly.
Wise Old Owl
08-08-2010, 16:37
Thanks.........................