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300winmag
09-12-2010, 15:16
For spring, fall and higher altitude hiking light down jackets ("sweaters") seem to be the answer to light, warm insulation. I recently had a wake-up experience on the southern PCT near Olancha Peak.


On two mornings in a high valley (8,000 ft) we had temps of 28 F. and 24 F. All I had was a 200 weight fleece vest under my PacLite rain parka, which was barely enough. On the last day out from that camp if got down to 16 F. !! and THAT experience promped me to buy an Eddie Bauer down sweater this summer. Got it on sale for $87.!!

To me a down sweater is becoming as basic a part of lightweight backpacking equipment as a good down bag. Treating them with a good DWR like Revivex or Techtron is important in keeping them dry, as is a light roll-top waterproof stuff sack.

Eric

Appalachian Tater
09-12-2010, 15:24
I got one a couple of years ago but it's too warm to do serious hiking in. However, it is so light and warm that I have not worn any other winter jacket around town since I got it. Anything else seems so heavy and restricting and it's so soft and light, like wearing a down pillow.

Patagonia has a limited-edition version now made of 900-fill down and lighter material--it looks see-through but I have only seen it online.

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-down-sweater-special-edition-jacket?p=84720-0-085&pcc=1128

JAK
09-12-2010, 17:15
I think a light wool sweater with an ultralight wind shell would be just as warm and light and more versatile, and much more durable, and less expensive. These "down sweaters" beside being terribly named, do not hold up to scrutiny.

Del Q
09-12-2010, 17:21
I went with the synthetic "sweater". for just a few ounces more I got the added benefits of a non-down piece of warm-weather gear. You know, down and damp = not great.

JAK
09-12-2010, 17:43
So why not a real sweater, if that thin and so not for extreme cold?

Personally I still like wool in extreme cold, because I would still need it for wet and cold on the same trip, because I hike in more northern woods stuff than true alpine or arctic, but for the temperature these thin "sweaters" are for, synthetic or down they don't make sense. You still need a wind or rain shell, so for the same weight, 10 or 12 oz or whatever, why not a 16oz sweater and be really comfortable all of the time, and then add your windshell or rainshell and be even warmer? Rain, freezing rain, whatever, bring it on.

JAK
09-12-2010, 18:21
Here is something that has me wondering about sleeping bags and clothing lately.

In theory, for sleeping in -10F with an average skin temp of 80F, you should be able to get by with only 1" of insulation, a metric r-value of 1, and english r-value of 5.75 .

100 watts / ( 2 square meters x 50 degK ) = 1.0 watts/m2K = R 1.0

So what's going on. If down and all these synthetic batts are so great, why do you need 2" or 3" of loft to get an R-value of 5.75 or a clo value of about 6.0 ???

The only thing I can figure out is maybe 3 things going on...
1. There is alot of air flow into and out of the insulation through the shell.
2. There is alot of air flow into and out of the bag around the shell and insulation.
3. There is alot of convection or radiation going on between the shells through the insulation.

In the case of #1, we could fix that with more airtight shells, but that might be too clammy, but if some air is going through, is down or synthetic still the best material.

In the case of #2, we would need to do what we need to to reduce leakage, and presumably we do that, or at least should do that, rather than worry too much about instrinsic clo values and such things that apparently are not realized in practice, or clothing and sleeping bags would be thinner.

In the case of #3, we would need to question the common assumption made than all loft is created equal.

Perhaps a wool sweater with a wind shell does not need to be as thick as a down sweater or synthetic batt sweater to be just as warm. Perhaps it is still heavier, but how much? If 3 times as heavy as often claimed on the basis of same thickness, perhaps no contest. If wool or fleece only needs to be 1.2 to 1.5 times heavier, for equal performance in dry conditions when combined with a separate wind or rain shell, which is needed regardless, then maybe they more than make up for that with their versatility and durability, especially when your total clothing system is considered, for all conditions you are likely to encounter on a hiking trip.

Anyhow, I think down does work very well for sleeping bags, and for thicker parkas in extreme dry-cold conditions, but they just don't make sense when they are so thin. The shells and not the down are doing all the work, and wool or fleece and one shell can do that just as well and be more comfortable and durable and versatile as part of your total system.

JAK
09-12-2010, 19:50
Sorry, my daughter just told me to have less serious funner posts, adding bananas and smiley faces that say welcome.

She says hi. :sun

:welcome

skinewmexico
09-12-2010, 19:58
I thought the number you looked for on isulation was CLO, not an R value. And that some insulations had a higher CLO, despite being thinner. I saw a link to a really technical article somewhere on BPL, but it made me remember college math too much, so I never read it all.

skinewmexico
09-12-2010, 20:00
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=18950

Don't shoot the messenger. That may not be it. Search for posts by Richard Nisley.

JAK
09-12-2010, 20:07
:bananaYeah, I think I saw that paper, about european sleeping bag ratings. It was a good one. It lead me to wonder why loft can't be thinner, unless of course not all loft is created equal after all, not that I accept the thinsulate or polartec fleece claims either.

I don't like the premise either that you can just add up clothing clo willy nilly, without concern about which or how evenly body parts are covered. Details, like cuffs and the neck and face area are important, but its a no brainer that you can't just run around with 10 pairs of underwear and a down vest.

:banana

Feral Bill
09-12-2010, 20:12
Sorry, my daughter just told me to have less serious funner posts, adding bananas and smiley faces that say welcome.

She says hi. :sun

:welcome
Sounds like a winner.

JAK
09-12-2010, 21:08
Thanks Bill. She gets her social skills from here mother, clearly.

Old Hiker
09-12-2010, 21:12
Sorry, my daughter just told me to have less serious funner posts, adding bananas and smiley faces that say welcome.

She says hi. :sun

:welcome


Yer whipped. :rolleyes:
Welcome to the club. Be sure to ask if it's OK to join! :welcome

4eyedbuzzard
09-12-2010, 21:21
I went with the synthetic "sweater". for just a few ounces more I got the added benefits of a non-down piece of warm-weather gear. You know, down and damp = not great.
I picked up the older pull-over half-zip version of the Patagonia Nano Puff on sale for $60 recently (they redesigned it with a full zip this year, which is nicer but $170 or so). Very light, water resistant, synthetic piece for "sweater" weather hiking. Pretty ugly piece of clothing, but when you're in the woods it's about function, not form or fashion.

Tinker
09-12-2010, 22:36
I have both a light(ish) 19 oz. down jacket with hood and a heavier (2 lbs.) without hood, and take one or the other when the weather gets cold (for camp use only). Unfortunately, that means that I usually still carry my 18 oz. fleece jacket for use on the trail when it gets very cold.
Winter's coming when ultralight takes a back seat to survival.

JAK
09-12-2010, 22:48
I'm thinking about one of those down hoods for the head and neck area, for a sleeping bag boost as well as a clothing boost for when I am wearing all layers for an extreme low or windy cold or cold but just sitting around situation.

Tinker
09-12-2010, 23:23
JAK (above)
Anyhow, I think down does work very well for sleeping bags, and for thicker parkas in extreme dry-cold conditions, but they just don't make sense when they are so thin. The shells and not the down are doing all the work, and wool or fleece and one shell can do that just as well and be more comfortable and durable and versatile as part of your total system.

So true, JAK. One of the things I noticed is how many stitched through seams there are on those down "sweaters". The reason for that is that down flows very well, that is, it's not very stable. The thinner the down is, the more stitching required to stabilize it. The more the stitching, and the closer the seams, the more the already thin down insulating layer gets compressed. Makes very little sense to me, too.
In addition to my down jackets, I also have a Polarguard insulated light jacket made by Golite (hoodless) which has no stitched through seams and should, theoretically, be warmer than a down garment which is just as thick at its thickest point (between the stitches), because the thickness of the Plarguard is constant throughout the garment. It also should retain more heat than a similarly warm down garment if both got drenching wet (down has a remarkable ability to absorb a small amount of dampness and dry quickly, something downplayed by the synthetic insulation manufacturers).
The more I learn, the less, it seems, I know. ;)

Tinker
09-12-2010, 23:30
I'm thinking about one of those down hoods for the head and neck area, for a sleeping bag boost as well as a clothing boost for when I am wearing all layers for an extreme low or windy cold or cold but just sitting around situation.
Like this one? http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Hood.htm

I use hoodless sleeping bags and usually wear a hooded jacket or warm hat inside them, which allows me to roll over in the bag without taking the whole bag with me, a necessity since my bag is usually wrapped around a hammock.
Imo, Big Agnes should offer a separate hood to be used in their bags because if you're a side sleeper the hood leaves half of your head exposed when you lie on your side, with your face buried in the side of the hood.
Stephenson Warmlite (www.warmlite.com (http://www.warmlite.com) ) makes a down bag with a down air mat and a unique hood which can be used for side sleepers. Unfortunately the bag isn't that "lite".

Miner
09-12-2010, 23:44
I normally carry my Montbell Ex.Light Down Jacket (5oz) for backpacking. I often layer it under my 3oz windshirt in camp when packing up in the morning. It also makes for a nice pillow at night. However, even when I hiked while it was snowing in early Oct. last year when I was finishing the PCT, I found it too hot to hike very long in and usually took it off after the 1st 30minutes. The only time I was able to hike in it for any length of time was during my training hikes in late 2008 when I was in 20F temps wtih 35-50mph wind gusts giving a strong wind chill. As it was snowing, I had my rain jacket over it and was toasty warm.

Dogwood
09-13-2010, 14:21
Have you ever considered something like a MontBell down Inner Half Sleeve jacket layered over a light-med wt thermal top or UL wind shirt like Miner does? Combine something like this set-up with some UL Manzanella Windstopper Gloves and a wool beanie and I can hike comfortably in shorts in high 20's up to mid 50's as long as I'm not being blasted by strong wind.

Dogwood
09-13-2010, 14:25
My mid wt thermal top is usually a long sleeved Minus 33 wool 1/4 zip or Smartwool equivalent. I've purchased both pieces at excellent discount prices at The Frugal Backpacker Clearance Store near Asheville NC.

Dogwood
09-13-2010, 14:29
300winmag, I also was caught off guard on a few below/near freezing nights on the southern PCT in the Mojave Desert on an 08 PCT NOBO hike. Fortunately, those nights were few!

ZeroLozen
09-13-2010, 15:18
I think a light wool sweater with an ultralight wind shell would be just as warm and light and more versatile, and much more durable, and less expensive. These "down sweaters" beside being terribly named, do not hold up to scrutiny.

Agreed. Wool always wins with me. As down is fluffy and warm, once wet its rendered almost useless. There are many people will say that you just have to be careful and it will be fine. When I have been in the woods I rather try to enjoy the woods and mountains than worry about whether my gear will hold true. That's just my opinion though.

BlackRock
09-21-2010, 13:29
For those who know me, I'm biased toward clothing made from down... :) Synthetic works, but in reality it's simply not much better when wet than high quality down. Synthetic is usually just more rigid and holds shape a tad longer before getting fully wetted out, though they lose that shape over a season while down can last decades. But in the end synthetics like primaloft aren't as warm or compressible as you'll find with down.

Wool is extremely nice as well. I am very partial to my Smart Wool long johns and shirt for a base layer. Though for insulation layers I simply go with something down. My down sweater for cool conditions, say ~20 to upper teens and my full down jacket for anything colder than that.

I'm also a proponent of focused layering... 30* sleeping bag + down socks + down jacket, gloves and hat has gotten me comfortably through weather into the upper teens at high elevation. You can always get another few ounces of down added to your sleeping bag, but why not wear those extra ounces where they are needed like in a down sweater. My system right now is a 16oz bag, 2oz down socks, 6oz down sweater, 1oz hat and 2oz gloves for 27oz of down goodness that just about pack into the lid of my pack.

Simply put when weight, compressability and warmth are paramount down is the only way to go in my book. If you are counting the grams and limited on space the down sweater will simply pack smaller and provide more warmth than any fleece or synthetic like primaloft. Though I use all of the above. If I were to put an order to what I wear when out and about it would go something like this... poly pro --> Fleece --> primaloft --> Goose Down.

300winmag
09-25-2010, 01:10
Down is very good for its weight ans compactability, my reasons for taking it along.

I have a 300 weight Polarguard EMS jacket that's HEAVY and a Brit military knock-off jackes W synthetic Thermolite Micro (better than Primaloft) which is warmer and lighter than the Polarguad jacket but nowhere near as light as the equally warm Eddie Bauer down jacketIf I expect cold rain I take the synthetic jacket, if just cold then it's the EB Down Sweater.

Eric

springerfever
09-25-2010, 07:40
I purchased one of these a few years back and have used it quite a few times when the temps dip down in the low 20's/teens. Works great to keep your head warm while sleeping with a hoodless quilt, or in my case, a WM Alder (formerly Aspen) semi-rectangular down bag.

I too, am a side sleeper, and this allows you have total head coverage on your side and not exale into the bag itself. Also great in the cold mornings while cooking and packing up.

http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/garments/balaclava.htm


Here's the bag I have it paired with :

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=Microfiber%20Series&ContentId=22

JAK
09-25-2010, 08:08
For those who know me, I'm biased toward clothing made from down... :) Synthetic works, but in reality it's simply not much better when wet than high quality down. Synthetic is usually just more rigid and holds shape a tad longer before getting fully wetted out, though they lose that shape over a season while down can last decades. But in the end synthetics like primaloft aren't as warm or compressible as you'll find with down.

Wool is extremely nice as well. I am very partial to my Smart Wool long johns and shirt for a base layer. Though for insulation layers I simply go with something down. My down sweater for cool conditions, say ~20 to upper teens and my full down jacket for anything colder than that.

I'm also a proponent of focused layering... 30* sleeping bag + down socks + down jacket, gloves and hat has gotten me comfortably through weather into the upper teens at high elevation. You can always get another few ounces of down added to your sleeping bag, but why not wear those extra ounces where they are needed like in a down sweater. My system right now is a 16oz bag, 2oz down socks, 6oz down sweater, 1oz hat and 2oz gloves for 27oz of down goodness that just about pack into the lid of my pack.

Simply put when weight, compressability and warmth are paramount down is the only way to go in my book. If you are counting the grams and limited on space the down sweater will simply pack smaller and provide more warmth than any fleece or synthetic like primaloft. Though I use all of the above. If I were to put an order to what I wear when out and about it would go something like this... poly pro --> Fleece --> primaloft --> Goose Down.That's good in theory, and might work for you. Maybe you hike in dry places. I can see that.

As I see it, what works without down for wet conditions, will be warm enough when colder in dry conditions. For example, if you have a skin layer, and a mid layer, and a wind/rain shell that is warm enough for say 35F when its wet and windy, it should also be warm enough for say 20-25F, perhaps even colder, when its cold and windy, not so wet. Similarly, in winter when you can get wet and cold and wind freezing rain or wet snow turning to dry snow at 20-25F, it will also be warm enough if the temperature drops to 0F and everything is frozen. I can't see down layers working as well. Sure, you can hold the down layers in reserve during the wet stuff that is not so cold, but if your other layers are warm enough when damp under the rainshells with cold rain running off and some finding its way in or at least hitting certain body patrs like ankles and feet and cheeks and neck and wrists, then when it gets colder, you should be warm enough, even if you have to shake stuff off and squeeze stuff out and dry stuff out a bit with body hit. Just don't see where down fits into the picture, unless you are hoping for no cold rain or freezing rain or wet snow.

I could see a down long overcoat for temps below oF, but I don't think that is what you are talking about with your skimpy down layers, most of which is the nylon shell material anyway, which is redundant with your other shells you still would need, or at least the rain shell.

As I see down, for temps above 20F, it is essentially a lightly insulated, double layered windshell. You still need a rainshell. You still need skin layers and/or mid layers. Without down, using wool and synthetic skin and mid layers, you can use a 5oz rainshell that doubles as your windshell.

So then when comparing a light down sweater, to a real wool sweater, for warmth for weight, you have to include the weight of the two shells with the weight of the down, to the weight of the wool sweater without any shells; but you have to compare the warmth of both when used over a skin layer, and under a rainshell, because both systems need rainshells, but the wool sweater system doesn't need a windshell as the rainshell will do. Also, it can be argued that a 5oz hooded rainshell will work with the sweater system, but not so well with the down sweater system. Not sure. Certainly the wool sweater system is more versatile. You can wear it with or without the skin layer, and with or without the rainshell or any other layers or shells you happen to carry. It can also get wet or damp from outside or from inside and still be comfortable and functional, and is more easily dried out.

You have to compare the weight of the total system, for wet and cold.
When you do this, down adds weight. It doesn't save weight.

Dogwood
09-25-2010, 19:22
Um, JAK, BlackRock is from Seattle. I'll go out on a limb here. I think he knows something about hiking in cold wet conditions.

Quote - I'm also a proponent of focused layering... 30* sleeping bag + down socks + down jacket, gloves and hat has gotten me comfortably through weather into the upper teens at high elevation. You can always get another few ounces of down added to your sleeping bag, but why not wear those extra ounces where they are needed like in a down sweater. My system right now is a 16oz bag, 2oz down socks, 6oz down sweater, 1oz hat and 2oz gloves for 27oz of down goodness that just about pack into the lid of my pack.
Simply put when weight, compressability and warmth are paramount down is the only way to go in my book. Quote - BlackRock

I'm mostly with BlackRock on this. I like down for all the same reasons BR does, but that doesn't exclude the use of merino and/or synthetics too.

I like the focused layering approach. Since I sometimes wear my beanie and gloves whilke hiking I don't have those pieces in down. I get those accessories in merino wool so I can still wear them in the light rain and still get some warmth. My 2 1/2 oz XL Goosefeet down booties are my luxury item for in camp and sleeping. I use a down bag 90 % of the time . As long as I'm confident I can keep my down pieces relatively dry and still lofting I'll most likely opt to go that way. Another pt that I consider, is that on most thru-hikes in the lower 48 I'll have access to a laundromat every 5 days or so.

My preferred method for MOST of my thrus is a 1/4 zip merino wool skin/base layer(adjusting the wt of this piece for a range of weather conditions for different hikes or sections of the same hike) that provides some insulation and warmth underneath a WM or RAB down vest or Mont Bell Thermawrap synthetic vest. Some down jackets/vest come in more WR shells like the RAB which comes in an outer shell of Pertex Microlight. Protect all that with a UL WP rain/windshell. Accesssorize with wool socks(various wts and sizes for various hiking conditions and footwear), gloves(Windstopper, possibly with WP EVent shells), and wool beanie. Rain jacket has hood and hand pockets for added protection and warmth. Ala Go Go Go!

Anyone have any IO-BIO merino wool feedback they would like to share. I think it's some of the softest(BUT so pricey) merino wool off the shelf.

10-K
09-25-2010, 22:14
Anyone have any IO-BIO merino wool feedback they would like to share. I think it's some of the softest(BUT so pricey) merino wool off the shelf.

IO-BIO is my first choice, followed by the Backcountry.com house brand.

sbhikes
09-30-2010, 14:26
The way the down sweaters are supposed to work, as I have read somewhere, is that the first layer of nylon slows the wind, the layer of down nearly traps it and the inner layer of nylon completely stops it. The thin layer of down also adds a little warmth.

Whatever the science, I have found my thin down sweater to be the warmest jacket I've ever owned. In addition to backpacking I use it when I ride my motorcycle as an inner layer under another jacket. I need another jacket on top otherwise the flapping of the jacket in the wind pushes all the down to the underside of my arms.

I've hiked on rainy cold days in a down jacket before and can say that wet down will insulate. Sure it loses some insulation, but to say it's worthless is inaccurate.

I've never had any trouble keeping my jacket dry on any trip, but I don't do a lot of hiking in the rain and in the rain I don't wear my down sweater because it's too warm to hike in.

Kerosene
09-30-2010, 15:10
I purchased one of these a few years back and have used it quite a few times when the temps dip down in the low 20's/teens. Works great to keep your head warm while sleeping with a hoodless quilt,Here's another option that BlackRock didn't mention because I believe that he markets this 3/4 ounce down beanie: http://www.blackrockgear.com/

The Nunatak provides more cranium/neck coverage at a 3-ounce weight penalty.

JAK
09-30-2010, 15:25
It is true that the down can generate a little heat of its own, like wool, by capturing and recovering moisture as it leaves the body and goes through the shell materials. This is why it is neccessary for the shells to still breath a little. If they want to capture moisture, they also need to have a way of drying back out. Like wool, they do need to dry back out again, and that takes heat, usually from the body as well. So the effect is more of a thermal flywheel than a heat source. It works really well though, because the body generates heats at different rates through the day, and the environment draws heats at different rates with changing conditions. They are not as good as wool at this because they do not have the same capacity before becoming saturated and matting. One might consider sealing them off completely, but you would lose this effect, and if it wasn't 100%, you would still need to dry them out occassionally. So like sleeping bags, you can combine a very light highly breathable shell which is just the minimal neccessary to contain the down, and some other shells or layers on the inside and the outside that can be added and removed as required, to stop rain, or intercept some body moisture, or change the location of dew points and freezing point in your clothing layers and shells, and of course to add more insulation and wind blocking and rain blocking to you total system as needed.

And that is the bottom line. Wool and down and shells are only parts of a system. I don't think down needs to be part of such a system for hiking in damp climates above 10F. By the time you have the minimal shells for winf and rain, and the neccessary fleece and/or wool for skin or base layers and wet conditions, there is not much to be gained in adding a little down and redundant shell material to one or more parts of the body. It just doesn't add up. Not when you consider the total system and all the varying conditions you need to be prepared to hike through.

Down vests and jackets add weight. They don't reduce weight. They are redundant, and they are non-uniform. Better to have more even coverage over all the body. Some minimal wind and rain shells. Some non-absobant polyester layers that can be added and removed without worry. Some wool layers for the thermal flywheel effect that can be left on most of the time, and dried out by removing other layers.

Wool provides ALOT of heat as it is slowing gaining body moisture, and has ALOT more capacity than down at doing so, and is ALOT easier to dry back out again, with body heat, or sunshine, or even some wood heat. It can be removed entirely from its shells, and capture radiant heat from the body or the sun or fire directly, or from a drying convective breeze. Especially so as it can be a dark colour, the fibres itself that is, where the heat is needed to dry back out again. The layers do not have to be very thick, because of changing activity levels and layering and this thermal flywheel effect, and the great capacity for wool to contain up to 35% its weight in moisture before even feeling damp, and considerable more before losing insulation value.

This extra heating value, or heat recovery effect, is like 600kcal per kilogram of moisture gained. More in freezing conditions if you include frosting of body moisture on the outside of the wool. This moisture doesn't even need to be reheated. It can just be brushed off. Fur is even better than wool in this mode of operation. Anyhow, back to wool underwear and wool sweaters, which are the only REAL sweaters.

Say you have a total of 1000g in dry weight in wool layers, in addition to your wind shells and rain shells and polyester layers. Just the wool alone, hand knit or machine knit or whatever, socks, underwear, sweater, mitts, neck tube, hat, whatever you have on. Say this is allowed to gain and lose just 50% of its dry weight in body moisture. That is the capacity to recover and store 300kcal of extra heat, in addition to the 100kcal to 600kcal of heat per hour the body might be generating sitting around or hiking. With wool, you will not get cold so fast when you stop or slow down, and you will not have to add so many layers to avoid sweating when you are active, so you lose less heat in total because you are not delayering as often, and you need less r-value in total because you can use more of the heat from periods of activity to keep you warm when you slowdown.

Down does this also, but not as well as wool. Down only starts to make sense when you need more of it, like below 0degF. It makes very little sense above 10F, and no sense at all above 30F. Down is only as popular as it is because plastic clothing with a little down inside is ALOT cheaper to produce than handknit and machine knit wool sweaters.

Down is cheaper, but more expensive.
Wool is better, but can be had for cheaper than down, because it is more durable. ;)

JAK
09-30-2010, 15:32
Consumers see some fellow on Everest, and choose down for Katahdin, in September.
When consumers finally smarten up, wool will get alot more expensive again.
Some wool already is expensive, even crappy wool, but most good wool still is not.

Thankfully for the rest of us, most consumer will continue to be misled. :)

JAK
09-30-2010, 15:35
Modern life, including shopping, is still alot like nature when you think about it.
Nothing of real truth and value comes easy, but the more you know, the less you need.

Jessetfan
10-16-2010, 03:04
JAK, you seem to be a major proponent of wool, so perhaps you're a good person to aim a question at. I'm still trying to put together exactly what I want for a clothing system to do a thru hike next year. I wear a lot of wool at home since it's practical.

Given your posts I think it's fair to say you'd say the same thing for the trail as well. In your opinion how heavy should a sweater be? I'm able to totally customize since I'd be knitting my own sweater.

I'm also planning on knitting my own socks, do you think this is a practical option or would there be a reason to go with store bought?

Thanks for any insight you can offer.

300winmag
10-29-2010, 01:43
I should have mentioned that the "EB First Ascent Downlite Sweater"
is their term for a light down jacket. I now live in the southwest and in this much drier climate down garments are more suitable than northwestern Pennsylvania, where I used to live. Plus, I plan to use the down jacket only in camp on cold evenings and mornings and to extend the range of my 30 F. down bag.

To me a light down jacket is becoming an essential part of my light backpacking gear for spring and fall (and even August in the high Sierra and Rockies where night temps can get down into the low 20s F).

Will Riveted reviewed a bunch of light down jackets on Backpacking Light recently. He gave the EB First Ascent Downlight Sweater (the one I own) jacket a favorable rating for quality, features and water resistance and price.

BTW, you have to be a paying member of BPL to read the full articles but in my experience it is well worth it. BPL has the best articles of any site I've found for in-depth reviews of light weight backpacking gear. Many of them are comparisons with very scientific testing on items such as stoves.

BPL also has an online "store" with items of interest to lightweight and UL backpackers. I found their "Firelite" ESBIT-style fuel tabs to burn a little hotter than ESBIT tabs. However you should be able to get Firelite tabs from other sources.

But I digress on my digressions.

Eric