Guidebooks dead?

[Mags]

The Wilderness Press guidebook for the PCT are apparently going out of print:

http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/2010-November/042167.html

Most interesting quote IMO:

"As I see it, guidebooks are history. Guidebook companies can't compete against free apps."

I think of all the free maps out there for the CDT, BMT, PCT and other trails and I wonder if there is something to this. I don't think the maps are going away per se, but I can see the free maps to print out causing there to be little interest in buying maps...esp for a 2700 mile long trail like the PCT.

I can download Half-Mile's PCT maps and away I go.

I think the author of the quote above is alluding to the near future though. Where a person downloads a PDF guide to their smart phone and use it at their leisure.

Many of these guidebooks I can picture being for low cost if not free. My own little Colorado Trail guide is apparently carried on the CT now by a good chunk of hikers (as one example).

I can see long hiking trail hiking guidebooks transitioning to electronic media. Something like say a the Rocky Mtn National Park guidebook (Which is as much literature as a guidebook for many person's personal library),
not so much.

What has surprised me that there are no JLey (CDT), Parkay (BMT and other trails) or Half-mile (PCT) type maps (free for download and printable) for the AT which is arguably the most well known long footpath in the country if not the world.

Thoughts? Guidebooks obsolete? Or at least paying for maps for long trails?

[Lugnut]

Sounds great until your battery runs down.

[10-K]

Maps and books are 2 things that I'd rather have the "old fashioned" way.

[Wise Old Owl]

:-?10-k you forgot one thing is required the old fashioned way.:-?

Hey people live by those guidebooks.... guess we need to pdf them.

[Mags]

Well, I am not so much asking what people prefer (I print out all my maps)..but is the author of the post (a guidebook author!!!) correct in his prediction?

At the very least, I see free (or low cost) guidebooks and maps for download that can be printed out is where are headed.

[IronGutsTommy]

to some extent, the authors right. In america "nothing beats free". Printing can be useful if you only need certain areas mapped out. I also see a small stigma attached to more thorough guides because some hikers think it makes their trek less impressive if they pack a guide. I like guides that not only have maps but also list townsupply points and attractions. Sure a person could probably through due diligence find (and print) all they need for free but its nice to have it all in one neat easy publication. So I think there will always be a place for GUIDES, but people may tend to not purchase as many MAPS. When I was buying my 2010 thru companion for the AT I noticed individual states maps get rather pricey, some for 30 dollars and more. They even had a map for WEST VIRGINIA, a one day AT sprint, costing nearly the same as the companion. So I differentiate between Guides And Maps as far as which may slowly go the way of the dodo.

[BrianLe]

The PCT guidebooks hadn't been updated for a while; kind of sad to hear this, however.

I think most PCT hikers had mixed feelings about the guidebooks. The text is quite verbose, including lots of information on flora and fauna, geology, history, etc. This is interesting sometimes, but also can be annoying when you want to sift through it for the essential navigation inputs.

Recognize that the WP books on the PCT are completely different from the various AT guidebooks. From a PCT thru-hikers perspective, the AT guidebooks are like a combination of the PCT data book and Yogi's (mostly town) guide. The WP books contain lots of discussion about the trail and color maps; the town data in them has always long been somewhat sketchy and suspect.

The maps can definitely be replaced, with Halfmile's excellent work (http://www.pctmap.net/) at the top of the list (great stuff considering that it's free).

Erik the Black's PCT Atlas (http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/hiking-trail-maps-guides/) is good stuff too, but it intentionally omits the "narrative".
For all that the narrative can be lengthy, I'd sort of miss not having anything along that line. There's a lot of good information in there.

I'm glad that when I hiked the trail I bought two sets of the WP books, one to cut up and one to keep.

[leaftye]

I don't like using the guidebooks for hiking, but I really enjoy reading the other material. Even reading the guide material afterwards is a nice way to reconnect to bits of the trail and may help me better prepare for my next attempt. Those guidebooks took a lot of time and effort to create and it's sad that they won't be around anymore.

[garlic08]

Mags;

Good question, especially about why the AT is still mainly paper-based.

When I hiked the Wonderland Trail last year, it took 20 minutes on the internet to download and print maps, profiles, even a campsite registration form.

The Arizona Trail printed book is hopelessly out of date, and there's no market for a new book. There's great information on the website (data book and GPS points free to AZTA members, water pages and new town guide posted by a volunteer). If there's ever a new book printed, it'll be a "coffee table book" for armchair travelers, similar the CDT official guides (you know, the ones with nice photos that aren't even on the trail?)

I don't think the info will always be free, but I do think it's heading to downloadable format. Personally I will never rely on a set of batteries for navigation, but I enjoy downloading, printing the info I want to the scale I want and double-sided on quality paper (a la Ley maps on the CDT).

[Mags]

Mags;

Personally I will never rely on a set of batteries for navigation, but I enjoy downloading, printing the info I want to the scale I want and double-sided on quality paper (a la Ley maps on the CDT).


That's how I work, too.

Think it is the immediate future of guidebooks/maps personally.

We'll see. :)

[Bob McCaw]

The author of the PCT guides seemed to focus on the fact that they weren't economically viable.

I have found that there is enough demand for printed AT guidebooks to support the cottage industry that presently exists. The Thru-hiker's Handbook (and I suspect the AT Guide) turns a small profit each year. The Companion probably makes somewhat more money, but I doubt the ATC is getting rich off it.

This is true in spite of the fact that one year old information is available for free download, which has been true for some time.

I imagine the demise of the Wilderness Press books was largely caused by printing costs, which I'm betting were well over $5 per copy. They always seemed a bit like "coffee table" books, and there just isn't that kind of margin to work with, especially if you're producing a new copy each year.

It remains to be seen whether some sort of digital approach will replace guidebooks. As a previous poster noted, it doesn't matter how slick the app is: the current problem is battery life.

[Spirit Walker]

Free maps aren't really free - it still costs a fair amount to get them printed out if you are doing a long trail. J. Ley's maps are terrific, but it cost over $100 to print a set of the small version (8 1/2 x 11), which really were too small to use for navigation (but still useful for the comments). I don't know what the cost would have been for the larger size, but it would have been significant, which is why we used both regular NF/BLM maps and the Ley maps, as well as the guidebooks on the CDT. On the PCT we used the guidebook, and though the text was not the most helpful, the maps were good and it was cheaper than either Eric the Black's maps or the cost of printing out Halfmile's for the entire route. On the AT we used guidebooks and maps so we could have the larger picture (i.e. where does that blue blaze trail go?) though with the excellent blazing, they aren't really necessary any more. Still, they are interesting to read to understand where you are.

I love maps and guidebooks and would really hate to see them disappear from the hiking scene. A 3" screen isn't likely to satisfy my need for a larger picture with easily visible alternatives. I love looking at the maps and considering side trips or future hikes or interesting features. A GPS'd route is likely to mean one sole trail - no variations - and that is not my style of hiking. One of the things I liked about the WP books (especially the earlier versions) and the Wolf Guides and Ley maps for the CDT is that alternatives are presented along with the official routes. An official trail app is not likely to include such options. So I'll continue to buy full sized forest or BLM or USGS maps and will look for whatever guidebooks are available so I can continue to exercise the kind of freedom I enjoy best.

[gravityman]

I wonder if Yogi's book had anything to do with it?

[BrianLe]

"I wonder if Yogi's book had anything to do with it?"

I can't imagine that it did, the two don't have that much overlap. I certainly carried both on the PCT.

I think a more interesting issue might be to look into the specific thing that cost so much to produce --- i.e. the map overlays --- and whether a similar text-only guide could be produced that might assume maps are obtained elsewhere. Certainly it's better if text and maps are integrated, so that the text author(s) can reference specific map features with confidence in how they'll look to the reader. But I think it can be done.

On another forum Halfmile has suggested collecting input from various volunteers for sections of the trail. I think that something like that --- especially if somewhat organized with some basic commonality of format and some standards set and enforced --- could make for a good replacement to the guidebook text.

[leaftye]

I like the idea of taking the maps out of it too. I even tried doing that myself late last year. I scanned it and did text recognition so I could copy the text out. I think I got a couple sections done before I decided it wasn't worth it. Now if the publisher/author would do it...

With computers it shouldn't be too hard for them to use the same text to reference different books and maps. This would be a nice feature if they sold them electronically. You could tell them what maps, gps info and books you're using and they'd send a pdf that tailored to your needs. Additional sales might also come if it pulled water availability info from Asabat's website. With volunteers for each section, it could be very current and give hikers a reason to buy the most recent version every year....or maybe buy it a section at a time...

[Dogwood]

I DO NOT want to see everything digitized or electronically stored! I like libraries. I like that I can access info on hard copy(paper) without someone knowing what I'm viewing or accessing as is the case on line. I think it a terrible idea to store everything electronically because if something was to happen with electricity or electrical systems info would no longer be available to anyone who wanted to access it! I could see abuse occurring by those who desire to control the free flow of info!

[Mags]

I could see abuse occurring by those who desire to control the free flow of info!


An argument could be made that traditional print resources are more restrictive. Just in our little niche, how many small cottage gear manufacturers would there be if it was for word-of-mouth via electronic resources? Would something like the Half-mile maps even exist without relatively inexpensive electronics?

[Land_Shark]

Land Shark on the move. The small companion like the one for the colorado trail is all that is needed. Elevation, camping and water stops are enough. Larger supplements of info can be mail droped or shared information from other hikers. They are the best for 411 on the trail