7 lb quest

[mcskinney]

My normal 3 season Colorado setup hovers around 11 lbs, but just for fun I'm trying to design a sub 7 lb setup for a potential thru or maybe some fast packing. After throwing around gear ideas on paper for a few minutes I'm hovering around 7.5 lbs it seems and need some suggestions to trim the other ½ pound for the target base weight.

The following assumes that I'm wearing trail runners, light weight tights and shorts, lightweight LS shirt, hat, sunglasses, watch, and liner socks. The packed gear is intended to provide complete shelter including bug protection, insulation, hot food and purified water. The clothing should be able to provide warmth and rain protection and blah blah blah.... here it goes:

Pack- REI FLash 30 10oz
Shelter- SMD Wild Oasis -13oz
Ground Cloth- painters cloth -3oz
Pad- Neo sm -9oz
Bag- MH Phantom 45 -17oz

Clothing- WM Flash Jacket -9oz +helps increase sleeping bag warmth
Mid-Weight Bottoms 6oz (Dry for camp)
1 pair wool sox 3.5oz (dry for camp)
1 Pair liner sox 1oz (spare)
Gloves 2oz
Balaclava 2oz

Light- Petzl E-lite 1oz
Hygiene kit 3oz
Bandana 1oz (hygiene, 1st aid, filter, etc)
Spork 1oz
1st aid 2oz
Pot- SP 700 (can boil 2 cups)
ezbit x6 3oz (use 3 rocks for a pot stand)
Lighter .5oz
Aqua Mira 1oz
2L platty + gatoraid bottle 3oz
bear line 2oz
compactor liner 1oz
2x dry bags (1 for sleeping bag and 1 for clothes and down jacket) 4oz
2x sil nylon stuff sacks (1 for pillow, 1 for dedicated bear/food bag) 2oz

that's 120 oz


Have I left anything out?


I could change the rain gear and save a little, eat cold and save a little more, but other then that I'm stumped. Any ideas? What would you change and what could we eliminate? Is this even enough gear? And of course keep in mind this is all hypothetical.

[Rocket Jones]

Is there a small knife or razor blade in your first aid kit?

You might shave a bit of weight from your ground sheet.

[sparky2000]

7oz backpack cuben $100. 1/3 oz no scent bags - 3 per order - I think they are $12.
They have lighter and smaller ground clothes - MLD if my memory is right $?. Drop the neo 9 oz. and go 2oz. pad - 1/3 inch ( 2.2 oz. minus cut back to thin the pad).
Go to poncho/shelter (Equinox) and drop a lot of weight.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Ugg.. If the point of your thru hike is to win an ultralight contest with yourself, regardless of how cold, wet, and miserable you are for six months, then you're well on your way. To each their own, I guess. Here's some suggestions to help shave a few more ounces.

You mention changing your rain gear but I don't see any. That Flash down jacket isn't going to help. In fact, without a rain jacket it won't even keep you warm. Might as well leave it at home and save the 9 oz.

And without a jacket or long underwear, there's not much point in the gloves and balaclava, so leave them at home too and save the 4 ounces. Might as well leave the camp pants, too, since you don't have a shirt to go with them, for another 6 oz. And the dry socks -- 4.5oz.

You can save another couple of ounces by leaving the stuff sacks. You don't have enough dry clothes to make a pillow anyway, and you can use the pack itself as your bear bag.

For that matter leave the "dry bags" for another 4 oz. The only things you need to keep dry are your sleeping bag and your food, and that will certainly fit into the compactor liner. After a couple of nights in the rain, your sleeping bag's not going to be dry anyway, since you're sleeping under a tarp on a piece of plastic. Ok, what the hell, leave out the liner too, for another ounce.

Speaking of food, why are you wasting 8 ounces on a pot and a stove? (By the way, you forgot to count the pot, but it weighs about 5 ounces). You're only going to be in the woods for 4-5 days at a time, so why mess with cooking? Just live on big bags of Walmart GORP, which already come in their own waterproof plastic bag.

3 oz hygiene kit? Are you kidding? Leave it.

You don't mention what's in the first aid kit, but at 2 oz., it can't be much. Might as well swap it for a roll of sticky ace bandage and save an ounce. At least then you'd be able to stop a bleeding wound or wrap a sprained ankle. And like Mr. Jones said, I'd add a razor blade, since it weighs too little to even register on a postal scale. You could use it to slash your wrists if your misery becomes unbearable.

Total savings, 42.5 ounces -- almost three pounds! You'd win for sure!

By the way, you did remember to cut off all the tags and pockets from your gear and clothing, and trim your shoe laces, right?

[Two Tents]

Key words, just for fun, potential thru, fast packing. No need to rip the guy a new one. Heck a lot of hikers dream of ways to reach a lower base weight. Granted I don't know how comfortable he will be but then I never know what will happen with my set-up either when I go out. A lot of variables on any given hike to know for sure I have the exact gear I'll need. I can tell you that many times after returning home I unpacked something I had with me and didn't use. Did I leave it next trip? Maybe, maybe not. Anyway I find it interesting to see how low some can go, pressing the envelope. Just sayin. BTW my base weight is at 11.5 plus food and water for a long distance hike(Not winter)

[garlic08]

Key words, just for fun, potential thru, fast packing. No need to rip the guy a new one. Heck a lot of hikers dream of ways to reach a lower base weight.

Ditto this. In Colorado, you can look at the five-day weather forecast, see clear weather with a slight chance of pm T-storms, and confidently leave most of your foul-weather gear at home, even your tarp. I do it all the time, and get my pack below 8 pounds. I don't do it for a thru, but you probably could if you're faster and stronger than I am.

I sounds like you have all the bases covered to the limit of my experience. Short of leaving stuff at home--you mentioned the cooking--I don't see how you can do much better. I think those that do it use the smallest and lightest cuben gear, use a Tyvek bivy that doubles as rain gear, etc. You might want to see if you can find Warner Springs Monty's PCT set-up--I think he aimed for an average of five pounds and came pretty close, but he was pretty much at the edge. Good luck, be safe, and have fun.

[skinewmexico]

Ugg.. If the point of your thru hike is to win an ultralight contest with yourself, regardless of how cold, wet, and miserable you are for six months, then you're well on your way. To each their own, I guess. Here's some suggestions to help shave a few more ounces.

You mention changing your rain gear but I don't see any. That Flash down jacket isn't going to help. In fact, without a rain jacket it won't even keep you warm. Might as well leave it at home and save the 9 oz.

And without a jacket or long underwear, there's not much point in the gloves and balaclava, so leave them at home too and save the 4 ounces. Might as well leave the camp pants, too, since you don't have a shirt to go with them, for another 6 oz. And the dry socks -- 4.5oz.

You can save another couple of ounces by leaving the stuff sacks. You don't have enough dry clothes to make a pillow anyway, and you can use the pack itself as your bear bag.

For that matter leave the "dry bags" for another 4 oz. The only things you need to keep dry are your sleeping bag and your food, and that will certainly fit into the compactor liner. After a couple of nights in the rain, your sleeping bag's not going to be dry anyway, since you're sleeping under a tarp on a piece of plastic. Ok, what the hell, leave out the liner too, for another ounce.

Speaking of food, why are you wasting 8 ounces on a pot and a stove? (By the way, you forgot to count the pot, but it weighs about 5 ounces). You're only going to be in the woods for 4-5 days at a time, so why mess with cooking? Just live on big bags of Walmart GORP, which already come in their own waterproof plastic bag.

3 oz hygiene kit? Are you kidding? Leave it.

You don't mention what's in the first aid kit, but at 2 oz., it can't be much. Might as well swap it for a roll of sticky ace bandage and save an ounce. At least then you'd be able to stop a bleeding wound or wrap a sprained ankle. And like Mr. Jones said, I'd add a razor blade, since it weighs too little to even register on a postal scale. You could use it to slash your wrists if your misery becomes unbearable.

Total savings, 42.5 ounces -- almost three pounds! You'd win for sure!

By the way, you did remember to cut off all the tags and pockets from your gear and clothing, and trim your shoe laces, right?

Wow. Step into the wrong forum by mistake?

[Fiddleback]

What's 'normal 3-season'? Put another way, what's the lowest temp gonna be?

The OP gear list looks well done to me, depending on low temps to be faced. But I would add another sock set to hike in and a fresh set of socks to sleep in.

Don't compromise on safety and I recommend consideration of the motto of my Scout buddies and myself, "Any fool can be uncomfortable."

FB

[Smooth & Wasabi]

In my book fuel (esbit) counts as consumables. Saves 3 ounces from your gear list.

[Serial 07]

a simple grocery bag suffices as a food bag...

[hillsanddales3]

Hey mcskinney. Depending on your "comfort level," one very quick way to get most of your last half-pound is go with a cuben shelter. MLD has several UL offerings that fit your bill:

Patrol Shelter-6.8 oz (think a cuben Ray-Way)
Solo cat tarp-5.8 oz
Duo cat tarp-7.7 oz

Of course, the most versatile would be a tarp. The Duo offers the most protection.
It's my shelter of choice as I use it most of the time, even in winter. I decided a long time ago that my comfort level wasn't a static thing, but a moving target. Now I'm quite at home with a tarp and enjoy it's light weight, the openness feeling it gives me in the wilderness, and the tiny footprint it occupies in my pack.
Good luck on your adventure and enjoy discovery in all forms!

[Harrison Bergeron]

Wow. Step into the wrong forum by mistake?
Sorry, guys. I wasn't trying to "rip him a new one". I completely recognize that for some people, hiking the AT is competition to see who can carry the least weight. It doesn't sound like much fun to me, but as I said, "to each his own".

The man said wanted to shave a few more ounces from his 7lb empty weight for an AT thru hike, "just for fun". All I did was point out the inconsistencies in his choices. For instance, it's pointless to take a down jacket as your only insulation on the AT if you don't also bring a rain jacket. And it's silly to bring a stuff bag to use as a pillow if you aren't bringing enough dry clothes to make a pillow.

[bigcranky]

Gossamer Gear sells a great polycro ground sheet that weighs 1.4 ounces. Not much saved, but it's 50% of your ground sheet weight.

You could take a torso-size CCF pad and save a couple of ounces.

The SMD poncho tarp would do double duty, saving the weight of a rain shell (though I don't see that on your list.)

You should be able to eke out a few more ounces with a 45-F down quilt, maybe from MLD or similar maker. Wear your balaclava to bed.

I suspect that'll add up to half a pound total savings.

And hey, JonGalt, are you 12 years old or what? Get a life, dude.

[Iceaxe]

I used a base weight of 10.5 pounds for the PCT and 11 pounds for the CDT. After a lot of consideration I am taking 7.5 pounds on the AT this year.
About the only way i could get my base lighter now would be to swap out individual items for lighter versions.. made of cuben fiber etc.
Anyhow your gear list looks a lot like mine. I ditched my stove after the San Juans of Colorado and decided i actually enjoy the freedom of a cookless strategy more. Liptons, oatmeal, minute rice, idahoan taters.. all of them rehydrate without heat in a ziplock given water and time. But this is definitely an aquired taste. Also there is a cetrain survival value to being able to boil water for hot water bottles for the sleeping bag at night etc.
But if we are talking summertime in Colorado what i found there on the CDT, which has an average elevation of 11,000 feet through the whole state, is between 20 and 75 degrees. The biggest weather related issue were the afternoon thunderstorms.
Maybe it's because I am a weenie from California but those storms can be downright scary out on the divide. I mean: chuck your trekking poles, squat on your foam pad, hunker down as the lightning burns the rock two feet away from you scary.
Anyhow no amount of gear would have helped that situation and in fact i was glad for my light pack cause i actually ran sometimes to get out of the way of storm cells.
>>>Rant Follows>>>
I am not sure what it is about our light packs that pisses people off, such as the fella that posted here, but I will say "get use to it." I had a lot of non-long distance hiker people tell me how I would die, never make it, get eaten by snakes, bears, wild gnomes etc. Folks automatically assume if you don't have a bazooka in your 75 lb pack you are gonna die. "Surely you must be suffering" is their battle cry. "Surely you don't see anything travelling that fast" and my favorite "Surely you are not having the superior wilderness experience I am having with my 70 lbs of crap".
Sorry for the rant but the negative bull sh#t about ultralight enthusiasts and fastpackers I have been reading on here lately made me feel the need to push back.
>>>End of Rant>>>
Anyways, gear weight is an evolution and a highly personal one at that. Provided you have the strategy to use what gear you carry you may find you don't need other things.
I can't tell you whats right for you but if I were carrying the gear you listed about the only change i would think about making, short of replacing stuff with cuben would be to ditch the stuff sacks.
For me the caompactor bag was enough to keep everything dry in my pack. Eliminating the compression sack and simply stuffing the bag inside you pack might actually free up room. I know it sounds crazy but it worked that way for me.

[Stir Fry]

I Just read Jongalt's reply and its the best laugh i have had in weeks.

[The Cleaner]

Ugg.. If the point of your thru hike is to win an ultralight contest with yourself, regardless of how cold, wet, and miserable you are for six months, then you're well on your way. To each their own, I guess. Here's some suggestions to help shave a few more ounces.

You mention changing your rain gear but I don't see any. That Flash down jacket isn't going to help. In fact, without a rain jacket it won't even keep you warm. Might as well leave it at home and save the 9 oz.

And without a jacket or long underwear, there's not much point in the gloves and balaclava, so leave them at home too and save the 4 ounces. Might as well leave the camp pants, too, since you don't have a shirt to go with them, for another 6 oz. And the dry socks -- 4.5oz.

You can save another couple of ounces by leaving the stuff sacks. You don't have enough dry clothes to make a pillow anyway, and you can use the pack itself as your bear bag.

For that matter leave the "dry bags" for another 4 oz. The only things you need to keep dry are your sleeping bag and your food, and that will certainly fit into the compactor liner. After a couple of nights in the rain, your sleeping bag's not going to be dry anyway, since you're sleeping under a tarp on a piece of plastic. Ok, what the hell, leave out the liner too, for another ounce.

Speaking of food, why are you wasting 8 ounces on a pot and a stove? (By the way, you forgot to count the pot, but it weighs about 5 ounces). You're only going to be in the woods for 4-5 days at a time, so why mess with cooking? Just live on big bags of Walmart GORP, which already come in their own waterproof plastic bag.

3 oz hygiene kit? Are you kidding? Leave it.

You don't mention what's in the first aid kit, but at 2 oz., it can't be much. Might as well swap it for a roll of sticky ace bandage and save an ounce. At least then you'd be able to stop a bleeding wound or wrap a sprained ankle. And like Mr. Jones said, I'd add a razor blade, since it weighs too little to even register on a postal scale. You could use it to slash your wrists if your misery becomes unbearable.

Total savings, 42.5 ounces -- almost three pounds! You'd win for sure!

By the way, you did remember to cut off all the tags and pockets from your gear and clothing, and trim your shoe laces, right? I'll tend to agree with you.7lbs or 70lbs when you're wet&cold that's when the fun stops and survival starts.More low weight ideas...don't stop&camp just do power naps all the way .And don't talk to other hikers that takes energy,so less talk=more walk...:eek:

[mcskinney]

Ugg.. I
You mention changing your rain gear but I don't see any. That Flash down jacket isn't going to help. In fact, without a rain jacket it won't even keep you warm. Might as well leave it at home and save the 9 oz.


oops sorry,
SH hurricane pants 7oz
SD hurracane jacket 7oz

those are both included in that 120 oz total.

I'll review your other suggestions even though they were partially sarcastic ;)

[Two Tents]

I'll review your other suggestions even though they were partially sarcastic ;)[/QUOTE]

Good idea because some his ideas have merit if you are shaving grams and ounces.

[Two Tents]

Some of JonGalts' ideas were actually good for what you are looking to accomplish.

[mcskinney]

my 1st aid kit contains:
8 butterfly closures, 10 IB200's, 5 percocet, 5 Imodium, safety pin, leatherman 'style', sm zip lock, and there is duct tape around my hiking poles and bandana elsewhere

my hygiene kits contains:
half toothbrush, dozen q-tips, ½-¾ oz of Dr. Bonners in dropper, small ½ tube toothpaste, sm ziplock, bandana elsewhere.

[mcskinney]

as far as going cookless, since im not carrying a stove and the esbits are consumables, cooking or not that 3 oz isn't in my base weight as noted above, so ill take that off.

[Iceaxe]

The Closed Cell Foam Pad can be cut down to body shape to save weight.
I used a Ridgerest 3/4 length and cut it down to an hourglass shape. Since only my hips and shoulders are touching the ground this worked brilliantly for me. For my feet I used my empty MLD Exodus pack for ground insulation.
At any rate my cut down Ridgerest is 6 ounces.

The Six moon Designs Gatewood cape, at 11 ounces, has been succesfully used by some of my LD hiker buddies. I have been sorely tempted to combine my rain gear/shelter this way. The reality on the trail was I got either wet from sweat when in raingear or wet from rain without it.

Despite what was posted elsewhere you are much better off stowing your down jacket with your sleeping bag and being a little cold while hiking in rain than to wear it under your raingear as it will become soaked thru rapidly.
Anyhow the sleeping pad and the shelter as raingear could be a area to cut weight.

[Harrison Bergeron]

oops sorry,
SH hurricane pants 7oz
SD hurracane jacket 7oz

those are both included in that 120 oz total.

I'll review your other suggestions even though they were partially sarcastic ;)

Well, as some have pointed out, I just never grew up. Glad you took it in the spirit I intended.

[Rocket Jones]

my 1st aid kit contains:
8 butterfly closures, 10 IB200's, 5 percocet, 5 Imodium, safety pin, leatherman 'style', sm zip lock, and there is duct tape around my hiking poles and bandana elsewhere

my hygiene kits contains:
half toothbrush, dozen q-tips, ½-¾ oz of Dr. Bonners in dropper, small ½ tube toothpaste, sm ziplock, bandana elsewhere.

For UL, I'd drop 6 of the butterfly's and add one largish bandaid. Do you need that many IB and percocet? I like the Leatherman, that's a nifty little tool.

Lose the Bonners.

Personally, going this UL would be impossible, it's way too far out of my comfort zone. Good luck and have fun!

[mcskinney]

For UL, I'd drop 6 of the butterfly's and add one largish bandaid. Do you need that many IB and percocet? I like the Leatherman, that's a nifty little tool.

Lose the Bonners.

Personally, going this UL would be impossible, it's way too far out of my comfort zone. Good luck and have fun!

IB200 2 per day at night at camp
percocet in case of an injury where I or someone else is immobilized and in great pain whilst someone else goes for help.

Without the bonners what would i wash my face, hands, ass, and pot/spoon with?

[Black Wolf]

Sorry, guys. I wasn't trying to "rip him a new one". I completely recognize that for some people, hiking the AT is competition to see who can carry the least weight. It doesn't sound like much fun to me, but as I said, "to each his own".

The man said wanted to shave a few more ounces from his 7lb empty weight for an AT thru hike, "just for fun". All I did was point out the inconsistencies in his choices. For instance, it's pointless to take a down jacket as your only insulation on the AT if you don't also bring a rain jacket. And it's silly to bring a stuff bag to use as a pillow if you aren't bringing enough dry clothes to make a pillow.

perhaps "just for fun" should be defined...I rather enjoyed it... kinda; looked like Mr.Galt was writing HIS opinion "just for fun"...I mean...tell the truth..you weern't grinning the whole time reading it ??...I was...and I read a lot here..."just for fun" :-?:-?

[Snoopy]

perhaps "just for fun" should be defined...I rather enjoyed it... kinda; looked like Mr.Galt was writing HIS opinion "just for fun"...I mean...tell the truth..you weren't grinning the whole time reading it ??...I was...and I read a lot here..."just for fun" :-?:-?

I did a laugh out loud and thought that was a very funny response by Mr. Galt.. A funny spin on how 'lightweight' he could actually go.. It was very humorous and made me say ''hmmmmm..just maybe" to a few suggestions!! :sun

[tolkien]

Cut the stove and fuel. Go GORP: Simplify.

[10-K]

I went from a Snowpeak 750 ml to an Evernew 500 ml and saved a bit of weight (plus it packs smaller). Still does 2 cups (15.9 oz).

I gave up the platypus a long time ago.

I'm ever so slightly willing to consider going stoveless but well.... there's the coffee thing to consider.

[44terryberry]

I remember when i was in the War between the states..We`d be up at 2 AM,no breakfast,marching 25 miles with a 40 pound pack and a 12 pound rifle to boot,mostly barefoot. Any takers?

[Singletrack]

The REI Flash 30 pack, weighs 24 ounces, not 10 ounces. You would probably need a Cuben Zpack to get in the 10 ounce, or less range.

[Duff]

If you're comfortable with the 45 degree bag, then temps should be adequate to not be terribly concerned about ground insulation when sleeping. Gossamer Gear sells a thin torso length pad that weighs in at 2.6 oz. (saving you over/near 1/2 pound); you'll need to use your pack under your legs. Another minor savings is to go with bear line from Zpacks in the smallest diameter they offer - still strong enough to hang any food you're going to carry - .65 oz/50 ft. That and a 0.1 oz biner. Someone made a sarcastic remark about cutting off tags; no shame in that - I've never met anyone on the trail who commented about how great their tags were. HYOH

[tammons]

Weight savings and a lighter wallet...

Swap out to a Zpacks pack - saves 4oz

Use a polycro GC - 1.5oz

GO to a MYOG 45d down M50 quilt. Guy over at BPL did one in 12 oz I think, expensive and tedious - 5oz

Lighter pad - 2oz

Swap out to a cut down fosters can (18oz) in a country time lemonade container. Gives you 3 containers, and the CTL container can handle hot water - weighs about 3 oz, almost free - 1.5 oz

Compactor bag and 2 dry bags. I would get rid of one of these or build cuben dry sacks. - 2oz

If summer you could swap out the 14 oz of rain gear for the 3oz driducks Emer poncho. Someone is testing it here - 11oz, other wise the driducks suit or poncho is 10 oz. For sumemr just the driducks top is 5-6 oz.

You could swap the SMD for a large 8oz cuben tarp - 5oz

All of that saves you about 2#

[Saffirre8]

i think ya'll are nuts. i dont give a crap about weight, i only love to hike and i want to be Comfortable while i am hiking and camping. My base weight is 11.5 and that includes food, BUT not water. i load up on water and carry about 12 lbs worth. Y you ask cause i like to stay hydrated and i know the more i drink, my weight will go down as well as i walk. i know when i am at camp i am going to be DRY, hydrated and full cause i am not crazy. You might not need something this time but need something the next. There are many things that i dont use in my pack that could save me a couple ounce, but i choose to take it anyway. Whats a couple ounces here and there to be a happy hiker.

[tammons]

Saffirre8 what is ur base weight without food ??

[ChrisFol]

-There are a couple of lighter packs out there that can save you a few ounces, look at Zpacks, MLD and Gossamer Gear

-A short CCF pad could save you another couple of ounces over the neo air

-You could trade the Wild Oasis for a lighter tarp-- something like a Poncho tarp and save 7 ounces and you then have a light rain protection and so you can nix your rain jacket or whatever you are using for additional weight savings.

-Ground cloth-- switch to the heat shrink wrap kit and knock 2 ounces off.

-You could 6-9 ounces by switching to a 40 degree quilt.

-You could probably knock 2 ounces out of your hygiene kit if you tried.

-In Colorado I get by with just 2L of water, you could nix the gaterade bottle.

-Nix the stuff sacks. Just line your pack with a trash compacktor bag to waterproof.

[gregpphoto]

In my book fuel (esbit) counts as consumables. Saves 3 ounces from your gear list.

Still gotta carry it though. So you just fooling yourself into thinking you're traveling lighter than you are. Same when people forget about the clothes they wear. Sure, theyre not in your pack, but your muscles still need to work harder to carry the extra weight!