Just stopped by this place on a day hike. The shelter was nice. Room for 6-8. Plywood floor. Privy lacks a toilet seat and people
had been missing the hole. No water by the shelter, but there was a flowing stream a short distance down the trail. Note from a volunteer ridgerunner said there was no more water southbound for 14 miles.

Port Clinton is just 6 miles south of the Windson Furnace Shelter, so how could the next water source be 14 miles south.

:-? :-?

the water at the Port clinton pavilion pump is not drinkable. the locals put out water in jugs during hiker season. But what about the pocahontus spring just before P.C.

The 2005 Companion list the spigot at the Clinton Hotel as the water source. Do they not allow it anymore? And can you still camp at the Pavilion?


Bayou

You can get water from the spigot at the hotel, your right. However they turn the outside water off in the winter, but you could probably get water from inside at the bar if they are open.

head to the pump..now turn your back to the pavillion while standind at the pump and look at the pine tree 20 yards away.walk to the tree and crawl under the bows and you will find a 4 foot circle of steal drum lid. lift the lid.now you have access to the sourse of the pumps water. somtimes it is possible to prime the well with about 3 gallons and get it working but the seals may have deterioratred to far since my last try.it would be nothing to fix or replace this pump as the water is pure and has been for the 30 years ive drank it.it just needs a new pump cup.i would be proud to pay if anyone wants to donate the labor and skill.this would have to be done thru the church witch owns it

Windsor Furnace Shelter..

What about the Hamburg Resivour, its right there? or at least the creek that flows out of it?

Stayed here 3/24-25 2007. Mathewski was there preping for a trail crew day on the 25th. I had about 15 other campers with me and despite the rain we gave the site a good breakin for the season.

I found the privy still without the seat & in need of a major (dead) bug and web out. however its still solid and reliable. Bears must be out, saw track sign by the Hamburg resivour.

Hey Matthewski, get in touch with me OK

HIKER7s

Stayed here 3/24-25 2007. Mathewski was there preping for a trail crew day on the 25th. I had about 15 other campers with me and despite the rain we gave the site a good breakin for the season.

I found the privy still without the seat & in need of a major (dead) bug and web out. however its still solid and reliable. Bears must be out, saw track sign by the Hamburg resivour.

Hey Matthewski, get in touch with me OK

HIKER7s

Thanks to a recent land swap between Hamburg and the National Park Service, the shelter and the adjacent campsite are now on NPS land. However, since the general area is a watershed property for Hamburg and is SO accessable to everyone, Hamburg STILL REQUIRES folks who will be parking overnight in the Watershed parking lot to call the Borough Secretary several days in advance to notify them that your car will be there (make, model, license, etc.). Otherwise, expect a ticket for illegal parking. Also, since the majority of the Pulpit Rocks/Pinnacle area is watershed property, there is "no camping" up there due to concerns about pollution and wildfires.

I was just up at Windsor Furnace shelter on a section and ran across a rather problematic situation. Here's the story.

I was coming down into Windsor Furnace a bit late (I made the mistake of stopping in the Port Clinton Hotel for lunch, from which I only extracted myself after two beers and two and a half hours (but that's another story.) Thus I was a bit late getting down to the shelter, rolling in just before 8:00. As I was hiking up to the bridge over Furnace Creek I meet three other hikers going south, headed toward the blue blaze to the Hamburg lot. One said "going to the shelter?" I replied yes and they said what I thought was "we'll be back" but on later reflection might well have been "you'll be back", the meaning of which will rapidly become apparent.

When I walked up the the shelter, it was occupied by two couples with an enormous amount of non-hiking gear spread around and two large tents pitched directly next to the shelter. They had a roaring fire going in the pit and were cooking a lot of stuff over it (ribs and corn as it turned out). I said hello, but it seemed obvious that they had basically scared off or refused to share with the three hikers I'd passed, though they weren't unfriendly or directly rude to me. I'm a hanger, so I just went to one of the campsites across from the shelter and set up. I'd already eaten (boy, had I eaten) so I could basically just let them do what they wanted, do my other camp chores in my own site and get to bed. One guy did actually come over and offer me some dinner, but as I said I was not interested anyway.

Problem was, I ended up overhearing a lot in the night due to a yelling-and-crying fight between one of the couples. From what I gathered, they were there on some kind of vacation or extended campout and weren't homeless (the woman involved kept demanding to go home; apparently her partner had the car keys.) I didn't know who to report this to at the time (does BMECC maintain Windsor Furnace?) and I had a long day the next day, so I left it at that and didn't report it at the time. I suppose I could have called 911, but that seemed rather extreme for the circumstance. Unfortunately, I also didn't feel it advisable to confront these folks by myself.

I'm hoping that Shelterbuilder or one of the other folks here know who to contact about this. It's not that they were bad people, just ignorant and in the wrong place. But still, shelters are for hikers, not for those seeking a free vacation for a few days and thus taking over services that hikers need and are intended for them.

I'm hoping that Shelterbuilder or one of the other folks here know who to contact about this. It's not that they were bad people, just ignorant and in the wrong place. But still, shelters are for hikers, not for those seeking a free vacation for a few days and thus taking over services that hikers need and are intended for them.

NPS recently acquired a small tract of land on which the shelter rests (post #9 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=347787&postcount=9)). Their rules concerning A.T. corridor lands stipulate "overnight stays at camping and/or shelter sites shall be limited to the maximum number of nights specified by local authorities or to two nights where no local policies have been adopted." I don't believe BMECC has set a maximum there.

NPS may not wish to respond, but I believe either Pennsylvania State Police or Borough of Hamburg could enforce the NPS rule. There may be other issues.

They may have parked overnight without having first obtained permission from Borough of Hamburg. I see their phone number has not been provided in this thread. It's (610) 562-7821.

Shelterbuilder is subscribed to all threads related to BMECC's shelters. He'll see what's posted.

I was just up at Windsor Furnace shelter on a section and ran across a rather problematic situation. Here's the story.

I was coming down into Windsor Furnace a bit late (I made the mistake of stopping in the Port Clinton Hotel for lunch, from which I only extracted myself after two beers and two and a half hours (but that's another story.) Thus I was a bit late getting down to the shelter, rolling in just before 8:00. As I was hiking up to the bridge over Furnace Creek I meet three other hikers going south, headed toward the blue blaze to the Hamburg lot. One said "going to the shelter?" I replied yes and they said what I thought was "we'll be back" but on later reflection might well have been "you'll be back", the meaning of which will rapidly become apparent.

When I walked up the the shelter, it was occupied by two couples with an enormous amount of non-hiking gear spread around and two large tents pitched directly next to the shelter. They had a roaring fire going in the pit and were cooking a lot of stuff over it (ribs and corn as it turned out). I said hello, but it seemed obvious that they had basically scared off or refused to share with the three hikers I'd passed, though they weren't unfriendly or directly rude to me. I'm a hanger, so I just went to one of the campsites across from the shelter and set up. I'd already eaten (boy, had I eaten) so I could basically just let them do what they wanted, do my other camp chores in my own site and get to bed. One guy did actually come over and offer my some dinner, but as I said I was not interested anyway.

Problem was, I ended up overhearing a lot in the night due to a yelling-and-crying fight between one of the couples. From what I gathered, they were there on some kind of vacation or extended campout and weren't homeless (the woman involved kept demanding to go home; apparently her partner had the car keys.) I didn't know who to report this to at the time (does BMECC maintain Windsor Furnace?) and I had a long day the next day, so I left it at that and didn't report it at the time. I suppose I could have called 911, but that seemed rather extreme for the circumstance. Unfortunately, I also didn't feel it advisable to confront these folks by myself.

I'm hoping that Shelterbuilder or one of the other folks here know who to contact about this. It's not that they were bad people, just ignorant and in the wrong place. But still, shelters are for hikers, not for those seeking a free vacation for a few days and thus taking over services that hikers need and are intended for them.

Um, yeah...where do I start with this one?:-?

As much as it sounds like there may have been a legitimate problem here, NEVER NEVER NEVER become "aggressively confrontational" with folks like this. You don't know them, they don't know you, neither of you knows if the other one is armed, etc. Good call on your part. :)

I've often tried engaging folks like this in the least threatening way possible - a proffered dinner (or at least a small taste) could have opened the door for some small talk: "where are you from, what's the weather forecast, you folks look like you're ready for just about anything, how'd you manage to get all of this stuff up here", and once you've had the chance to figure out where these folks are coming from, you can shift the conversation around to some "information" about the trail, the shelters and the proper use of the shelters. Sometimes, you'll get blown off, sometimes not. I always stress to folks that "I'm NOT an LEO... but I know that (insert your favorite LEO agency here) patrols up here, and I'd hate to see anyone get a fine for doing certain things". At that point, you can usually tell if it's time to leave, hike down the trail a ways, and call your favorite LEO!

The shelter and the immediate area are now NPS property, so a call to either NPS or ATC would probably have been the next step, if necessary. The Hamburg Police have jurisdiction over the parking lot and the watershed property, but they usually don't come back unless they KNOW that there's a real problem (that's their call, not ours). The State Police also have jurisdiction on the trail (courtesy of an MOU between them and NPS/ATC), but they rarely use it in a timely manner (unless there's a real problem). Perhaps a call to the Hamburg Borough Secretary's Office might be in order - if these folks had a "roaring fire" going, it would be very easy for it to become a wildfire and destroy Watershed property, and they would almost definitely respond to THAT.:eek:

And now - the part of my response that's going to get me BLASTED by some folks on WB: we all need to remember that both the trail and the facilities along the trail are not just for "rabid hikers" like you and me. Even though we maintain the trail and build the shelters/privies with the thought that thru-hikers and section hikers will use them, it is most often local folks out for a day-hike (or a quick, low-mileage overnight trip) who use things the most. No, I'm not advocating that we turn the trail into a "free campground" for car-campers, and it IS true that the shelters that are closest to roads and parking lots are subject to more than their fair share of abuse, BUT... we have to be careful not to "sound the alarm" until after we have tried to gently educate the culprits: "Hey, there might be a better, more enjoyable way to do this!". Then, if it's obvious that they intend to be @$$holes, let Larry the LEO have a turn at them!:D

I've read Strategic's post a couple of times and I can't figure out what illegal activity the couples were engaging in that would necessitate notifying anyone about anything.

Unless Strategic heard something in that conversation that he didn't post, seems like much ado about nothing. They weren't even staying in the shelter.

It's good to know the AT is being watched and there is the capacity to act should action be required.

See ATC's Reporting an Incident on the A.T. (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.5129395/k.18A4/Reporting_an_Incident_on_the_AT.htm) for relevant information.

Still it's good to know that the AT is being watched and there is the capacity to act should action be required.

I suppose. I guess I just don't understand what he would have liked to have reported, or confronted the people about, or what he would have told a 911 dispatcher.

Strategic: "Yeah, there are some folks camped up here with heavy gear who built a fire, offerred me some food, and were really loud. At least one of them isn't having a good time and wants to go home."

Dispatcher: "Are they Boy Scouts?"

It doesn't sound like he was threatened or that the property was being damaged, and there's no way for him to know that they were there longer than two days.

Forget illegal. What makes them "ignorant and in the wrong place"?

This discussion is a good example of why it's important to know who owns the land and whose rules apply. The same campout wouldn't have been legal on SGL, but they were camped on a NPS A.T. corridor tract where different rules apply for now. Maybe the rules concerning who may camp at Windsor Furnace Shelter will be modified at some point.

This discussion is a good example of why it's important to know who owns the land and whose rules apply. The same campout wouldn't have been legal on SGL, but they were camped on a NPS A.T. corridor tract where different rules apply.

. . .and I bet you they themselves were completely unaware of that. Good point, especially in PA, where you seem to pass through a lot of different zones.

Guess it was just your day to babysit. Though you did the right thing NOT getting involved...at times- unfortunately ..we have to put up with this. If they are using a shelter for "family camping" of sorts they either dont know the trail edicutte or they are just plain arragant.

Either way, IF it had of been a no-brainer that something was amiss (and I dont think by what your telling us it was).....I would of got down the trail a bit and called it in probably and waited to guide whoever showed up to where they were.

These days, you just cant know what potential can erupt in situations like this. Was there alcohol involved?????

. . .If they are using a shelter for "family camping" of sorts they either dont know the trail edicutte or they are just plain arragant. . .

They were camped NEXT to a shelter weeks after it would have been crowded with thru-hikers. Etiquette and arrogance have nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned, barring additional info from Strategic. What leads you to believe they were arrogant or breaking etiquette rules?

As far as the demon alcohol, I'm not aware of anything illegal about it, as this wasn't on State Game Lands, but I could be wrong. Shelterbuilder or Emerald would be able to answer that better than I. But, my god, could you imagine the chaos if they were (heavens to Betsy!) having a beer?!?

Everyone needs to get over themselves. You don't own the shelters. You don't get to decide who deserves to use them and who doesn't.

:bananalol

I baited that to get your response, actually beer is a requirement for a good hike for some people

I was just up at Windsor Furnace shelter on a section and ran across a rather problematic situation. Here's the story.

I was coming down into Windsor Furnace a bit late (I made the mistake of stopping in the Port Clinton Hotel for lunch, from which I only extracted myself after two beers and two and a half hours (but that's another story.) Thus I was a bit late getting down to the shelter, rolling in just before 8:00. As I was hiking up to the bridge over Furnace Creek I meet three other hikers going south, headed toward the blue blaze to the Hamburg lot. One said "going to the shelter?" I replied yes and they said what I thought was "we'll be back" but on later reflection might well have been "you'll be back", the meaning of which will rapidly become apparent.

When I walked up the the shelter, it was occupied by two couples with an enormous amount of non-hiking gear spread around and two large tents pitched directly next to the shelter. They had a roaring fire going in the pit and were cooking a lot of stuff over it (ribs and corn as it turned out). I said hello, but it seemed obvious that they had basically scared off or refused to share with the three hikers I'd passed, though they weren't unfriendly or directly rude to me. I'm a hanger, so I just went to one of the campsites across from the shelter and set up. I'd already eaten (boy, had I eaten) so I could basically just let them do what they wanted, do my other camp chores in my own site and get to bed. One guy did actually come over and offer my some dinner, but as I said I was not interested anyway.

Problem was, I ended up overhearing a lot in the night due to a yelling-and-crying fight between one of the couples. From what I gathered, they were there on some kind of vacation or extended campout and weren't homeless (the woman involved kept demanding to go home; apparently her partner had the car keys.) I didn't know who to report this to at the time (does BMECC maintain Windsor Furnace?) and I had a long day the next day, so I left it at that and didn't report it at the time. I suppose I could have called 911, but that seemed rather extreme for the circumstance. Unfortunately, I also didn't feel it advisable to confront these folks by myself.

I'm hoping that Shelterbuilder or one of the other folks here know who to contact about this. It's not that they were bad people, just ignorant and in the wrong place. But still, shelters are for hikers, not for those seeking a free vacation for a few days and thus taking over services that hikers need and are intended for them.
what exactly is there to "report"?

Strat..are you a lawman in your job?

As far as the demon alcohol, I'm not aware of anything illegal about it, as this wasn't on State Game Lands, but I could be wrong. Shelterbuilder or Emerald would be able to answer that better than I.

I spoke with someone who works in Hamburg's borough office to refresh and/or update my memory moments ago. It's a local call for me.

Alcohol is not specifically prohibited although 4 individuals were recently arrested for swimming in the reservoir. Alcohol was likely involved and a contributing factor. I believe they were charged with trespassing and disorderly conduct. People considerate of others who use common sense and respect what's posted are not apt to prompt enforcement action.

Please be advised camping and fires are permitted on the watershed only at Windsor Furnace Shelter and the camping area provided by Hamburg near the reservoir parking lot. As pointed out several times in this thread, permission is required for overnight parking. When someone calls to secure permission, they will be expected to provide information about their vehicle, someone will go over the terms of watershed use and answer any questions.

Strategic: "Yeah, there are some folks camped up here with heavy gear who built a fire, offerred me some food, and were really loud. At least one of them isn't having a good time and wants to go home."

Dispatcher: "Are they Boy Scouts?"

Ok, that made me laugh out loud here at my desk. I don't care what side of the Boy Scout debate you're on, that's funny stuff right there.

Thanks for the chuckle.

I know...the laws right in around there are tricky depending where you stand. AND trust me, if you dont call ahead and let them know your going to be parking in the resivour pkg lot. they are quick to get a ticket on ya.

Please be advised camping and fires are permitted on the watershed only at Windsor Furnace Shelter and the camping area provided by Hamburg near the reservoir parking lot. As pointed out several times in this thread, permission is required for overnight parking. When someone calls to secure permission, they will be expected to provide information about their vehicle and someone will review the terms of watershed use at that time.

does this include if you hike up along the creek? there are several campsites along that trail (blue blazed, not the AT)...i'm assuming these are illegal to camp and have fires at? they've been there as long as i've been hiking the area.

what exactly is there to "report"?

As usual, Lone Wolf says in six words what takes me, what, three or four posts?

Ok, that made me laugh out loud here at my desk. I don't care what side of the Boy Scout debate you're on, that's funny stuff right there.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Glad somebody enjoyed that . . .

"Only at the shelter" was the language used by the borough employee with whom I spoke. A more precise explanation may be needed. I expect whether the campsites you mentioned are on the NPS tract or not would determine their legality. I'm not certain of its boundaries and should walk them.

In post #9, shelterbuilder refers to the "shelter and adjacent campsite." I expect he will respond later today and you could follow up on your question with him then.

"Only at the shelter" was the language used by the borough employee with whom I spoke. A more precise explanation may be needed. I expect whether the campsites you mentioned are on the NPS tract or not would determine their legality. I'm not certain of its boundaries and should walk them.

In post #9, shelterbuilder refers to the "shelter and adjacent campsite." I expect he will respond later today and you could follow up on your question with him then.

Since the shelter and the "adjacent" campsite (the one in front of the shelter on the other side of the old woods road) are now NPS land, Hamburg has no legal jurisdiction at this location, even though it "has a vested interest" in what goes on here. However, the parcel is quite small, and if you don't see the yellow boundary blazes and go outside of the NPS parcel, you are once again under Hamburg's jurisdiction.

I'm not exactly sure where the "campsites" are along the blue-blazed trail, but they would be illegal, since the remainder of the property in this area is Watershed property. (The fact that they've been there forever doesn't make them any less illegal!;))

Hamburg is and always has been "justifiably paranoid" about the possibility of a wildfire on its watershed property, since this could seriously affect water quality and supply for the entire town! Anyone who has ever hiked extensively in this area knows how difficult it would be to get enough fire supression equipment up into the mountains - there are only 3 roads that go to the top, and there's a LOT of land up there. Once the land is burned, the soil will not hold much water, and when the water washes downhill, it will take hundreds of years' worth of soil with it...not a pretty picture.:(

and yet everytime i hike up to the pinnacle i see evidence of small fires all along the way....even amongst the rocks on top of pinnacle.

and yet everytime i hike up to the pinnacle i see evidence of small fires all along the way....even amongst the rocks on top of pinnacle.

...and some that are not-so-small! Some folks are a little slow on the uptake.

That last large clearing coming up from the Eckville side is a favorite spot for this (and is also the turn-around for Hamburg's motorized patrols) - I don't know how many times I've come across the smoldering remains of what was obviously a large campfire.

For some folks, camping isn't camping without a bonfire - oops, I mean campfire. LNT is a completely foreign concept to these people.