View Full Version : Stopping the 4 wheelers in North Carolina
For the past 3 years in the Fall I have encountered people on 4 wheelers on the AT just south of Hot Springs along the ridges near bluff mt. in the area owned by the Carolina Club. Some seem to be bear hunters and some are young people joy riding. I know that this area is a "local vs hiker" battleground and the local authorities always side with the voters, so are far less inclined to get involved with inforcing these kind of laws. Heck they are more worried that some hiker will find the mema's moonshine still. What I wonder is why the Carolina Club enables the 4 wheelers by cutting the large deadfalls that fall across the trail with a 6 foot gap? A 2 foot gap would let the hikers pass but not the 4 wheelers. Could they not also build choke points with obstructions to keep the 4 wheelers out. Just putting up a sign does not seem to work. Another thing they could do is just surrender and give the 4 wheelers the trail at the top of the ridge and move the AT 200 feet down the side of the ridge where there is a steep drop off with rocks and roots where the motor vehicles can't go. I did report this to the ATC.
I agree, and feel your frustration with the lack of enforcement. One would think that the A/T being a National Scenic Trail, there would be federal assistance and more involvement on their part to catch and make examples of the perps, and take a more physical position with barriers in preventing such use and erosion caused by these vehicles. When caught, vehicle confiscation and stiff fines should send the message. There are plenty of other places to ride than on the A/T. With the budget problems in Washington and elsewhere it is probably a low priority on the totem pole and will continue to be ignored as the ATVers are also voters who are supporting the sale of the vehicles, use of fuels, and purchase of firearms and other ATV related products.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 10:56
4 wheelers are motorized vehicles and aren't supposed to be allowed on the AT (except where the AT is also a highway in town as in Hot Springs, NC) and the laws should be enforced regardless of voters...
It's a problem between Sam's Gap and Hot Springs as well. Not a lot you can do.
It's a problem between Sam's Gap and Hot Springs as well. Not a lot you can do.
Yes, here also in Virginia there are problems with the local population using ATV's in the Priest and Three Ridges Wilderness Areas. Especially at the Tye River footbridge camping spots where the ATV's come in from trails along side the river. I have seen them pull into the campsites, and leave their vehicles there, and go to swim or party. The perps know that Local LEOs will be hard pressed to catch them and are gone before any enforcement can arrive. Even then, use other avenues to escape through the woods. Too late for 911 and ID is next to impossible since there are no registration plates on the vehicles....Always, they are in numbers and confrontation is not an option...Not much to do about it...a real shame.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 11:41
ID is next to impossible since there are no registration plates on the vehicles....Always, they are in numbers and confrontation is not an option...Not much to do about it...a real shame.
Oh yea..the lawless rednecks always run in packs ..Like Wolves..Most are probably armed also..note...Wolves are much less trouble and more civilized...
I agree, and feel your frustration with the lack of enforcement. One would think that the A/T being a National Scenic Trail, there would be federal assistance and more involvement on their part to catch and make examples of the perps, and take a more physical position with barriers in preventing such use and erosion caused by these vehicles. When caught, vehicle confiscation and stiff fines should send the message. There are plenty of other places to ride than on the A/T. With the budget problems in Washington and elsewhere it is probably a low priority on the totem pole and will continue to be ignored as the ATVers are also voters who are supporting the sale of the vehicles, use of fuels, and purchase of firearms and other ATV related products.
Yes, here also in Virginia there are problems with the local population using ATV's in the Priest and Three Ridges Wilderness Areas. Especially at the Tye River footbridge camping spots where the ATV's come in from trails along side the river. I have seen them pull into the campsites, and leave their vehicles there, and go to swim or party. The perps know that Local LEOs will be hard pressed to catch them and are gone before any enforcement can arrive. Even then, use other avenues to escape through the woods. Too late for 911 and ID is next to impossible since there are no registration plates on the vehicles....Always, they are in numbers and confrontation is not an option...Not much to do about it...a real shame.Everything you said here is true. The sadness in all of it is you would think people would have and show enough respect to recognize the fact that motorized vehicles have been prohibited from use on the trail and would be honorable enough to respect that but unfortunately they are not and do not. Where I live in PA everyone it almost seems has dirt bikes and four wheeler's and they ride right down the main roads with the cars. I mean I am talking truck route's, heavily traveled mini highways. I have seen near misses, etc...and it appears little is done/can be done. I used to ride a dirt bike myself when I was younger, and loved riding too, but the way these people go right down the heavily traveled roads with impunity:-?
Carl in FL
05-21-2011, 12:02
What I wonder is why the Carolina Club enables the 4 wheelers by cutting the large deadfalls that fall across the trail with a 6 foot gap? A 2 foot gap would let the hikers pass but not the 4 wheelers
This sounds like a very simple yet effective idea. Especially if the remaining timbers
are somehow secured to the ground.
What I wonder is why the Carolina Club enables the 4 wheelers by cutting the large deadfalls that fall across the trail with a 6 foot gap? A 2 foot gap would let the hikers pass but not the 4 wheelers
This sounds like a very simple yet effective idea. Especially if the remaining timbers
are somehow secured to the ground.
While I think that the hole through the deadfalls should be cut to 2 feet to facilitate only foot travel, let's not ignore the fact that ATV's are capable of carrying a gutted deer out of the woods and therefore, a chainsaw in the hands of a determined rider presents absolutely no problem. If they had to carry that same saw by hand to the trail blockage site, they might think differently...but the ATV makes the trek through the woods uneventful and easy. They will do it anyway, but there needs to be at least some restriction to at least make it hard at first and make them go and get the saw.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 12:22
What I wonder is why the Carolina Club enables the 4 wheelers by cutting the large deadfalls that fall across the trail with a 6 foot gap? A 2 foot gap would let the hikers pass but not the 4 wheelers
This sounds like a very simple yet effective idea. Especially if the remaining timbers
are somehow secured to the ground.
Some hikers are wider than 2 feet....lol..I am.... but I've never seen one 6 feet wide I think 3 feet should be wide enough for ANY hiker but not enough for the 4 wheelers..The thing is that many 4 wheeler riders carry chain saws and it COULD be some of them that are cutting the 6 foot gaps...I think some sort of barricade with a 3 foot gap (that looks as natural as possible) in an area where it can NOT be bypassed such as a straight up embankment on one side and a sheer drop off on the other should help to keep em out...4 wheelers CAN be ridden with sense and not do damage to the landscape BUT the thing is that most riders don't ride like they have sense...
Actually I was talking with someone who is involved with maintaining another trail and he said they discovered if they didn't clear the blowdowns the ATV'ers would.
Since they were going to ride them on the trail anyway they figured they may as well let them do some maintenance.
Actually I was talking with someone who is involved with maintaining another trail and he said they discovered if they didn't clear the blowdowns the ATV'ers would.
Since they were going to ride them on the trail anyway they figured they may as well let them do some maintenance.
It sounds like the maintainers are sort of lazy in helping with the reporting of ATV use on the trails or maybe they are some of the ATVers themselves. They are allowing, ignoring and enabling the use by ATVers and complicit in the problem if they do. Maybe another trail, but, not a good thing if the maintainer is involved with the A/T maintainence though!
It sounds like the maintainers are sort of lazy in helping with the reporting of ATV use on the trails or maybe they are some of the ATVers themselves. They are allowing, ignoring and enabling the use by ATVers and complicit in the problem if they do. Maybe another trail, but, not a good thing if the maintainer is involved with the A/T maintainence though!
Well, there are 2 options:
1. Clear the trail for the ATV'ers
2. Let the ATV'er clear the trail themselves.
No way on earth are you going to stop them.
FWIW, I'd much rather share the trail with an ATV than a horse.
LoneRidgeRunner
05-21-2011, 13:55
Well, there are 2 options:
1. Clear the trail for the ATV'ers
2. Let the ATV'er clear the trail themselves.
No way on earth are you going to stop them.
FWIW, I'd much rather share the trail with an ATV than a horse.
At least the ATV's don't **** on the trail..The horses do..
At least the ATV's don't **** on the trail..The horses do..
Yep... When I hiked the BMT the ATV tracks didn't bother me at all. Horses on the other hand really tear up the trail - and they crap everywhere. And when it rains it's a real mess.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 14:18
if signs showing the enviromental impact of such use were posted like abortion posters , education might deter. no atv guy wants to ride thru a gauntlet of treesitters and posts asking to report atv use. and the signs could be cheap paper so they will steal them and get that fine too. we will bait them with freash signs and catch them removeing them.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 14:20
if a movable barracade could trap them like mice, that would be fun too. then its just a matter of walking away. they need chainsaws to get out. when they go for the saw, we add water.
mweinstone
05-21-2011, 14:21
2 maby 3 weekends and the rumor will spread. there wont be a tricycle in sight.
if signs showing the enviromental impact of such use were posted like abortion posters , education might deter. no atv guy wants to ride thru a gauntlet of treesitters and posts asking to report atv use. and the signs could be cheap paper so they will steal them and get that fine too. we will bait them with freash signs and catch them removeing them.
In the 5 mile stretch between the Sarvis Cove Trail and just south of Jerry's Cabin shelter there used to be a bunch of wooden trail marker signs.. They're all gone now and a few of the posts they were on are broken.
But, the signs that are beyond the ATV trails are still there.
Yep... When I hiked the BMT the ATV tracks didn't bother me at all. Horses on the other hand really tear up the trail - and they crap everywhere. And when it rains it's a real mess.
Again another thread getting off message. I understand and accept your point of view but the OP was referring to the A/T, not the BMT or any other trail. The A/T does have national designation should have all the resources necessary made available to enforce and protect it's corridor. Illegal vehicle use should stop.....Period!
Again another thread getting off message. I understand and accept your point of view but the OP was referring to the A/T, not the BMT or any other trail. The A/T does have national designation should have all the resources necessary made available to enforce and protect it's corridor. Illegal vehicle use should stop.....Period!
Yes, of course for sure.... I file it under, "Things that should be but unfortunately will never happen."
There's not a magic wand.. nor or there enough resources to enforce it.
They do catch a couple every now and again but it's like of like watching Dukes of Hazard.. Bo and Luke usually get away... :)
The Cleaner
05-21-2011, 18:07
In the 5 mile stretch between the Sarvis Cove Trail and just south of Jerry's Cabin shelter there used to be a bunch of wooden trail marker signs.. They're all gone now and a few of the posts they were on are broken.
But, the signs that are beyond the ATV trails are still there.
When I was up there on 12-31 I followed the old jeep road which used to be the AT.There were 4wheeler tracks in the snow and a blowdown that had just been cut with a chainsaw.The local bear hunters have been using this area for many years and I don't see them stopping until the USFS steps up and does some real work on new barriers.
4 wheelers are motorized vehicles and aren't supposed to be allowed on the AT (except where the AT is also a highway in town as in Hot Springs, NC) and the laws should be enforced regardless of voters...
Absolutely!
While some ATVers are law abiding citizens WAY too many of them have that I'll go anwhere and do as I please attitude.
Damage to trails can occur in many ways. How much damage can occur is partly dependent on the trail itself(design, maintainenance, constuction methods, elevation, routing, soil structure, thread, typical weather patterns, etc) but, IMHO, JUST ONE ATVer can make much more damage to atrail when compared to a hiker on foot, mountain biker, or equestrian.
I can't speak for all equestrians on the east coast or there habits but in the mid west, southwest, and west on trails where equestrians and hikers share the trail I personally would MUCH rather be sharing the trail with horses than ATVers! Once I learned to yield to pack animals and/or equestrians I HAVE NEVER had a problem with sharing a trail with them! I can NOT say the same with ATVers! Rarely have I experienced an ATVer who wants to yield to or is as considerate of others on a trail as equestrians or those with pack animals. IMHO, equestrians and hikers have much in common in that they tend to respect each other to a MUCH greater degree than ATVers and hikers! With equestrians, those packing in/out, and for that matter hikers/hunters/fisherman, etc with goats, llamas, alpacas, trail dogs, etc they have learned to comfortably share the trail. ATVers should not even be on most hilking trails because of their level of intrusion, tendency towards erosion, and simply that it's VERY OFTEN ILLEGAL and/or unsafe for all!
generoll
05-21-2011, 19:26
it would seem that piano wire strung across the AT at neck height would do a lot to reduce the amount of ATV intrusion.
The Cleaner
05-21-2011, 20:50
it would seem that piano wire strung across the AT at neck height would do a lot to reduce the amount of ATV intrusion.
Roofing nails in their mud hole tracks too!
Carl in FL
05-21-2011, 21:12
it would seem that piano wire strung across the AT at neck height would do a lot to reduce the amount of ATV intrusion.
Gosh, I figured my idea of volunteer snipers was pretty bad. Sheesh....
Steel, concrete filled bollards placed at inconvenient intervals would do the
trick, that's what the state (Florida) did here at several of the nature parks.
Lets the peeps and the horses through but not the ATVs.
Of course, that's a lot of work. And the die-hards will just cut a new path
into the trail, wherever that's an option. This is, I am afraid, the old
"better mousetrap" paradox.
I have ridden horses, bicycled, canoed and hiked many miles not to mention the areas I hunt. I also spend way too much time on internet forums. It is funny how each group complains about the others.
We would have so many more miles to hike and caretakers if we could all just get along. If you can drive an ATV in an area, you can bring the gear to make repairs or hall out an injured person or ......
john gault
05-22-2011, 08:12
I have ridden horses, bicycled, canoed and hiked many miles not to mention the areas I hunt. I also spend way too much time on internet forums. It is funny how each group complains about the others.
We would have so many more miles to hike and caretakers if we could all just get along. If you can drive an ATV in an area, you can bring the gear to make repairs or hall out an injured person or ......
Maybe some day there will be a law....:D
Jim Adams
05-22-2011, 08:16
I have never ridden an ATV and don' like them but would much rather see ATV use on a trail than horse use. I've seen alot more destruction with horses.
geek
vamelungeon
05-22-2011, 09:52
I own an ATV and enjoy riding it but I have great LEGAL place to ride. I guess some people don't, and of course there are plenty of scofflaws as evidenced by other threads here on Whiteblaze. Is there a difference between the illegal ATV riders and "stealth campers" or people who sneak their dogs into the Smokies? People who smoke dope openly?
People seem to think they only have to obey the laws they agree with personally. The solution is more enforcement, but in these budget cutting days that probably isn't going to happen so I suppose you just have to live with it. There are always scofflaws.
I have never ridden an ATV and don' like them but would much rather see ATV use on a trail than horse use. I've seen alot more destruction with horses.
geek
Absolutely. Horses are very hard on hiking trails - and they crap everywhere.
WingedMonkey
05-22-2011, 13:30
The solution is more enforcement, but in these budget cutting days that probably isn't going to happen so I suppose you just have to live with it. There are always scofflaws.
Successful enforcement should pay for it's self. Enforcement increases revenue.
mweinstone
05-22-2011, 13:37
it would seem that piano wire strung across the AT at neck height would do a lot to reduce the amount of ATV intrusion.
i was thinking of praying for your soul.you have great anger. the dark side is strong with this one.
SuperTroll
07-15-2011, 14:57
i was thinking of praying for your soul.you have great anger. the dark side is strong with this one.
Pray for me too then, I was thinking it before I read it in here......
I've always wanted to try Hesco bastions at choke points for counter-mobility vs. ATV's. It's never seen land manager approval yet though.
vamelungeon
07-15-2011, 15:23
Pray for me too then, I was thinking it before I read it in here......
So you're willing to murder a teenager to keep him from riding an ATV on a trail? I see adolescents on 4 wheelers more than I see adults.
Nutbrown
07-15-2011, 19:26
So what is everyone so angry about? The fact that there is more pollution along that bit of the AT? There are 2 paths instead of 1? Are the ATVrs burning down the forest? Yes, the trail should not have motorized vehicles, but highways have signs prohibiting NON motorized ie. hitch hikers. How many of ya'll have hitched on a highway? Get over it, walk on.
Digger'02
07-27-2011, 09:48
Ok ok ok, yall ready for this? ATV's are allowed on the AT 1 day a year there so folks can go up to the Graves, as a result, the AT has to be cleared for ATV use the rest of the time so the work doesn't pile up etc. The area is full of logging roads and ATV tracts, its tough to keep folks off of the AT when its on an old road connected to a place where people can leagally ride ATV's/ Whats the solution? Rocky Fork! With others, the ATC bought 10,000acres to relocate this very piece of trail. I worked with Konnarock there this summer.
So no, its not lazy maintainers.....
entirelynutz
09-15-2011, 10:46
Actually each of you hikers can help keep this problem under control. Next time you see an ATV pull out your camera and take a lot of pictures especially closeups and ones with the ATV and a white blaze next to it. We did this and sent these pictures to incident@appalachiantrail.org with detailed information about where the ATV incident occurred. The ATC passed on the information to the proper authorities and the parents of the ATVer were prosecuted.
Rain Man
09-15-2011, 11:42
GOOD for you! I saw the tracks in that area, but no one "in the act." However, did see some kids on bicycles leave one of the road crossings and head up the trail back where I had come from. It is a problem in that area.
Rain Man
Actually each of you hikers can help keep this problem under control. Next time you see an ATV pull out your camera and take a lot of pictures especially closeups and ones with the ATV and a white blaze next to it. We did this and sent these pictures to incident@appalachiantrail.org with detailed information about where the ATV incident occurred. The ATC passed on the information to the proper authorities and the parents of the ATVer were prosecuted.
it would seem that piano wire strung across the AT at neck height would do a lot to reduce the amount of ATV intrusion.
I think this comment should be struck from the thread by the mods. There is no reason to wish decapitation on anyone, nor should you encourage others on a forum (public). Think, then type.