View Full Version : keeping gear dry: best with pack cover or zip locks and bag lining?
Hi,
I am wondering for best method of keeping gear in pack dry. Let's assume
steady prolonged rain ..and some wind.
My limited exprience with pack covers is that when it gets real windy it blows off. Perhaps I did not have it properly secured? Don't know.
Do you like to line your pack with garbage bag then everything into zip lock bags? or do you use just a pack cover? or do you use both? I want to keep weight down but I also want to maintain some level of comfort.
What does an exprienced long distance hiker on a long distance hike do to keep weight down and gear dry :-? (and you really need to keep gear dry to keep the weight down right? else the water will make it all heavier!)
So what is your recommendation?
SGT Rock
02-11-2005, 20:13
I'm paranoid about this, so everything goes into sil-nylon bags that have been seam sealed, then they all go in a pack liner, then ontop of all that I wear a packa.
I'm a strong believer in lining my pack with garbage bags and also lining my stuff sacks with garbage bags. It may seem like overkill, but I've hiked in alot of windy and rainy conditions and everything on the inside remains dry with this system.
In addition to the liners, in the past I have also sprayed the outside of my pack with that sylicon stuff. It not only helped rain bead up on the pack but also helped the pack stay clean. The silicon spray won't ward off torrential downpours, but I don't mind if the outside of my pack gets wet.
I haven't had good experiences with pack covers, but many people love them. Personally, if I used one, I wouldn't rely on the pack cover as my only means of keeping my important gear dry.
Wet gear just flat out sucks. Everything in a silnylon bag with a trashbag for a pack lining. Important items like wallet,clothes,mp3 player,maps and camera also get ziplocked. I use a pack cover as a first line of defense but have found they don't really provide a whole lot of protection for all day heavy rain but are better suited for short or light storms. I see Rock uses a Packa, but unless it really cold I'd just as soon skip the raingear and get wet. I sweat up a storm in all rain gear and figure I'd rather be wet from rain then sweat. Prozac
fantasmagris
02-11-2005, 21:14
The sil stuff sacks are also indispensible for keeping things organized (i.e., so you don't have to dig thru everything every time). So, the answer is BOTH, meaning sil stuff bags and a packcover. I haven't gotten into garbage bags yet, but re overkill, consider this - while a pack cover might weigh 4 oz, both the sil stuff sacks and plastic garbage bags weigh next to nothing; but wet clothing and gear OTOH weighs a lot and can be useless for quite a while to boot!;)
BTW - i love those freezer bags with the zip toggle for camera and other items that have to stay dry.
Kerosene
02-11-2005, 21:18
Any water seeping into your pack fabric or interior adds weight and increases the chance of your gear getting wet. I use a silnyl pack cover (3 oz) with a bungee that tightens it around the pack so it doesn't blow away. I use silnyl stuff sacks for my gear, plus ziploc bags for anything that I don't want to get wet. I stuff my sleeping bag in a silnyl bag lined with a small plastic garbage bag just for extra protection.
SalParadise
02-12-2005, 00:49
I used a pack cover with a bungee cord. Naturally everything in the pack was in a stuff sack (not all syl ones, though) and never had a problem, only modest moisture on the pad outside of my pack. The bungee covers have stayed on for me really well.
What's nice about the bungee pack covers is I would slip my rain jacket between the cover and the pack. It wasn't in danger of falling out, and it would allow me to take my jacket on or off without having to get into my pack (thereby letting the rain in).
Yeah, that silicone stuff or just waterproofer is great on a baseball cap if you just want modest protection from the rain and to keep your head warm.
MedicineMan
02-12-2005, 01:06
Wanderlust Gear used to sell a pack liner that was BIG and could double as a vapor barrier in your sleeping bag (not that you would ever need it on the AT)...like Sgt Rock I do my best and besides the bag liner I make sure the criticals are also wrapped in a sil-nyl bag...Go-Lite used to make (probably still do) a dry-bag out of sil-nyl marketed to kayakers, they are extremely lightweight and good insurance for your camp-clothes and sleeping bag/quilt.
No matter how 'waterproof' your system is H20 will find its way in so choose materials that wont absorb water in the first place (like synthetic fills, i dont but that's a risk i take) and items that are colored to dry quickly when you do get a couple hours of sun.
Also dont forget umbrellas for staying dry...that is one thing that offers complete ventilation-just dont use them on gusty precipices.
Several of you have mentioned sil nylon bags or stuff sacks. Just what are these and where can I get them? (ie ems, rei?). Are these things waterproof?
Blue Jay
02-12-2005, 10:05
My pack is a large kayak dry bag on an external frame. Heavy yes, but I can swim with it on and have actually done so. I love hiking in the rain, more animals, more smells, more color. When I hear the weenies from the "wet" year crying, I smile.
yes, you can find these at rei, and likely ems. they are made by lots of different companies, ie: granite gear, intregal designs, equinox, dancing light gear, etc ..... or, you can order some fabric and make your own. to make them truely waterproof, they should be seam sealed. rei has a sale starting on the 15th with some silnylon compression sacks on sale.
Footslogger
02-12-2005, 11:05
Years ago I used to stuff my things into multiple 1 or 2 quart zip locks, pressed the air out of them and then cram them down into the pack. Over time I migrated away from the zip locks for clothes. I found that what worked best for me was a plastic liner (compactor bag) inside my pack and silnylon stuff sacks. Did my thru-hike using that approach in 2003. We had more than our share of rain that year and I never had a single item in my pack get wet. Now, I still do use the smaller ziplocks (freezer strength) for my repackaged food inside my foodbag.
'Slogger
AT 2003
Tha Wookie suggested to me last year trash compactor bags which are a bit thicker than trash bags... they work very well to line your pack with. From there I use silnylon stuff bags and/or big ziploc freezer bags. Not sure is the trash compactor bags are big enough for high volume packs though.
Not sure is the trash compactor bags are big enough for high volume packs though.
If a compactor bag isn't big enough another possibility is stopping by a vets and picking up a large dog cadaver bag. :eek:
Footslogger
02-12-2005, 13:47
Tha Wookie suggested to me last year trash compactor bags which are a bit thicker than trash bags... they work very well to line your pack with. From there I use silnylon stuff bags and/or big ziploc freezer bags. Not sure is the trash compactor bags are big enough for high volume packs though.================================
The trash compactor bags sold at Wal-Mart are about the same size as or slightly larger than a tall kitchen trash bag, but are about 3 - 4 times the thickness and much more durable. As a size reference, I used a Granite Gear Vapor Trail pack and the compactor bag fit perfectly (circumference-wise) inside the pack and was tall enough for a small roll on top of my gear before closing the pack.
'Slogger
AT 2003
TakeABreak
02-12-2005, 19:48
1, I start buy lining my backpack with a trash compactor bag.
2, I put gear in stuff sacks and then inside the pack with a trash compactor as liner.
3, I use a pack cover whenever may rain or the trail is wet. (just in case a slip and fall, pack cover keeps from getting to the pack.
4, I use a down bag also, so after I put it in it's stuff sack, I then insert the stuff sack into a trash compactor bag and then into my pack, which is lined.
I line my bag with a garbage bag . My cloths and items that need to stay dry are in zip lock bags. My sleeping bag and pad are in garbage bags before going into the stuff sacks. I then cover with my pack cover. I am not real happy witht the pack cover and would not count on it to keep everything dry.
Mother Nature
02-13-2005, 18:30
I am also paranoid about moisture and found that lining my pack with a heavyer gauge plastic bag is the first line. I use silnylon stuff sacks inside. Zip locks for cameras, etc.
I found that large landscaping bags sold at Home Depot or Lowes are longer than trash compacter bags and allow me to custom cut them for my bag. I cut the bag long enough to allow expansion for resupplies. In use, I twist the bag to compress everything and then tuck the twist down to prevent water entering.
Mother Nature
Nightwalker
02-13-2005, 20:44
Is there any functional reason not to waterproof a backpack?
Frank/Nightwalker
smokymtnsteve
02-13-2005, 20:47
My pack is a large kayak dry bag on an external frame. Heavy yes, but I can swim with it on and have actually done so. I love hiking in the rain, more animals, more smells, more color. When I hear the weenies from the "wet" year crying, I smile.
U R so BUTCH :rolleyes:
Footslogger
02-13-2005, 22:07
Is there any functional reason not to waterproof a backpack?
Frank/Nightwalker====================
You mean like ...with a spray on procuct ?? Only reason I can think of is that the coating would abrade off in a very short time on the trail. I guess it would retard the process of moisture penetrating the pack cloth. But in the end, if it's really pouring your pack is gonna get wet. Bet protection is a waterproof liner bag.
'Slogger
AT 2003
i use an oversized silnylon packliner by dancing light gear,plus all my gear is in individual sinylon stuff sacks or ziplock bags,never have a problem with wet gear
plus my pack is an equinox katahdin,main made out of silnylon,:sun neo
Nightwalker
02-13-2005, 23:09
====================
You mean like ...with a spray on procuct ?? Only reason I can think of is that the coating would abrade off in a very short time on the trail. I guess it would retard the process of moisture penetrating the pack cloth. But in the end, if it's really pouring your pack is gonna get wet. Bet protection is a waterproof liner bag.
'Slogger
AT 2003
I was thinking more of a DWR silicone type thing like the sealant/mineral spirits mixture. It might degrade the material. It would certainly make it heavier. It was definitely just an idle thought.
I'm making some other sil-nylon bags before bye-bye day. I plan on making a sil-nylon bag liner as well. I've been using an extremely lightweight foodbag from golite (sp?) for over a year, and it has held up very well. The material from Quest Outfitters (http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#SIL-NYLON%201.1%20oz%20RIPSTOP) is extremely inexpensive--for the quality received--as well.
Heck, these guys are great. I'm making a lot of stuff with their stuff!
grrickar
02-14-2005, 00:01
I carried my digital camera in my shorts pocket in a ziploc, and everything else in my pack with an Equinox silnylon pack cover when it rained. It poured for two days on my first section hike, and all the contents of my pack stayed dry. Now that I have a down sleeping bag I think I will put it inside a trash compactor bag for a bit more protection from moisture.
Rain Man
02-14-2005, 10:42
I switched from an expensive Gregory pack cover for my Gregory Reality pack and now use white trash compactor bags. Now, I can actually see down in my pack when I'm looking for things. WOW!!! No longer dark and mysterious down there, but light and viewable!!!
Disclosure-- I also us zip-locks and sil-nylon bags to separate and protect most of my "stuff," even in the compactor bag.
:sun
Rain Man
.
INHO pack covers are useless. The best pack cover only covers 2/3 of your backpack. When it rains all day water will get between your back and the pack and will find its way inside. And if the rain doesn't the sweat will. I started out with a trash bag but gave up on that after a few days. I now use a stuff sack for my sleeping bag and large ziplock bags for clothes and other small items. The best investment I made on my hike last year was the Packa rain coat/ pack cover. You cover your pack when it looks like it may rain. When it starts to rain you pull it over your shoulders and it becomes a raincoat. Since it covers you and your pack it keeps the straps and pack completely dry. During warmer weather I didn't bother to put my arms through the sleeves or to zip it up. Yes it does get a little warm but it is the only way I found to really keep everything in the pack dry. I did have to seam seal the Packa - and that was not an easy undertaking since there seems to be about a thousand seams...
Lwop
Ga-Me 2004
SGT Rock
02-16-2005, 03:01
I love the Packa,just like you mentioned, a pack cover only covers so much, and if you wear a rain jacket, that one way gets water in it from the flow down both the pack cover and the jacket. Of course if you are like me, asil-nylon pack would solve this, but the Packa also adds the benifit of good air flow under it all.
minnesotasmith
02-16-2005, 03:37
I have become convinced that one of those would be keen to use while hiking, and I called and talked to Edward Hinnant on the phone yesterday to order one. He sounded a little down about the prospects of success with his venture. I would advise getting one from him ASAP, not only to help the man succeed with this offering of a product so handy for hikers, but also to ensure you can get one while he is in business. No, he didn't indicate he was thinking of bailing; it's just a "bird in the hand..." cautiousness to think that. (Bugging REI, Galyans, etc., to start carrying them wouldn't hurt a bit either.) He has a day job, so it's best to call weekends/early evenings.
His wife is pleasant enough, but doesn't (yet) know that much about his business, so you'll really need to talk to him. He's really willing to work with you on making sure one of these will work out for you; I'm probably going to buy a Gregory Whitney backpack (fanatic ultralighters may collectively swoon now), which is bigger than his Large size, and he was completely willing to make it convenient for me to get a custom-made Packa from him, at the regular price, I might add. I personally think that he should add an XXL standard size that fits 5000+ cu. size packs, not to mention adding gray, brown, and several camo color patterns, but those are minor quibbles. I recommend this guy highly, going by my experience with him so far.
The Solemates
02-16-2005, 10:22
In my experience in a heavy downpour, stuff is going to get wet no matter what. I just accept it. I put my camera and books in zip-locks. I spray my pack and my pack cover with DWR and then wait for the rain to stop (hopefully). Of course, finding some type of shelter when you stop hiking is the best rainproof advice I could give. Setting up a tent in the rain seems to soak everything, not to mention you have nowhere to cook supper.
By the way, dont EVER dry a Marmot Precip rainsuit in the dryer. In fact, I wouldnt even wash it very much. Mine had 0 weatherproofness left after 1500 miles or so.
wacocelt
02-16-2005, 10:33
Can someone post some contact info on how to get a pack, please? I saw one at Trail Days in 03 but never on the trail itself.
The Solemates
02-16-2005, 12:02
http://www.thepacka.com/
Seems too expensive to me...
fantasmagris
02-16-2005, 14:07
i have the longer hip length version of the Marmot precip - the Thunderstorm i believe it's called (14 oz.). i only got it cause it was on sale cheap a couple of years ago ($49). i never really liked hiking in it that much (cause its hot and sweaty, ended up using only when cold) until one day i put it on OVER myself AND pack. Strange that it fits cause i wear a large and it is a size large. guess they run big. Anyway, something else packa-like to consider (a longer rainjacket) :D
all you need to do is line your backpack with a 3 mil trash compactor bag. you can just dump all your gear right in there. no need for stuff sacks. your backpack will carry better that way
mingo
Footslogger
02-16-2005, 16:19
all you need to do is line your backpack with a 3 mil trash compactor bag. you can just dump all your gear right in there. no need for stuff sacks. your backpack will carry better that way
mingo==================================
I do use a plastic trash compactor bag ...but no way would I just dump everything into the pack at that point and I don't think I'm alone in that thinking. Stuff sacks allow you to sort out different types of clothing/gear.
But ...I guess it comes down to how much shoveling around inside the pack you're willing to do when it comes time to find a particular item. I also disagree that a pack carries better when everything is just dumped inside.
We're all different and I understand that the approach you listed works for you but I don't think it's a universally accepted system.
'Slogger
AT 2003
rambunny
02-16-2005, 16:22
I have had extream good luck with using a heavy type trash bag as my pack cover. -pack on groung -put bag upside down over it-cut small slits(they will expand,don't want them to do that too much) where the straps are -pull straps thru- put on back and tuck under and up the remaining skirt-hope i explained that ok. Also for your second use -putting feet in then in sleeping bag for warmth-don't do it all night tho-vapor barrier-you'll wake up with wet feet.
fantasmagris
02-16-2005, 16:47
Yup, those new "flex" bags are even better than compactor bags IMO. I use black 30 gal size (smaller than reg 30 gal due to crinkle effect).:D
Cedar Tree
02-16-2005, 17:43
I have become convinced that one of those would be keen to use while hiking, and I called and talked to Edward Hinnant on the phone yesterday to order one. He sounded a little down about the prospects of success with his venture. I would advise getting one from him ASAP, not only to help the man succeed with this offering of a product so handy for hikers, but also to ensure you can get one while he is in business. No, he didn't indicate he was thinking of bailing; it's just a "bird in the hand..." cautiousness to think that. (Bugging REI, Galyans, etc., to start carrying them wouldn't hurt a bit either.) He has a day job, so it's best to call weekends/early evenings.
Actually, quite the opposite is true. The Packa is hotter now than ever before. The traffic on my website is triple what it usually is, and I've sold 6 packas so far this month, with 2 others expressing interest. Yes, no big gear manufacturers are currently in line to license the Packa. I did get very, very close to landing a deal with Kelty, but they backed out. I feel confident I will be selling Packas for at least the next 17 years. I've sold 175 total now, and I have about 80 on hand, so no I have plenty. I am a school teacher, so it is best to call in the evening.
His wife is pleasant enough, but doesn't (yet) know that much about his business, so you'll really need to talk to him. He's really willing to work with you on making sure one of these will work out for you; I'm probably going to buy a Gregory Whitney backpack (fanatic ultralighters may collectively swoon now), which is bigger than his Large size, and he was completely willing to make it convenient for me to get a custom-made Packa from him, at the regular price, I might add. I personally think that he should add an XXL standard size that fits 5000+ cu. size packs, not to mention adding gray, brown, and several camo color patterns, but those are minor quibbles. I recommend this guy highly, going by my experience with him so far.
Thanks for the plug Minnesotasmith. I'll get you fixed up when you come to GA. Cedar Tree
cutman11
02-16-2005, 18:19
The sad fact about not getting the deal with Kelty is probably the same reality as Sgt Rock has with his stove idea and not getting a patent, the big corporations will most likely just steal your idea if its a good one, market the heck out of it and eventually take the business away until its no longer profitable and then it just stops being produced. I certainly hope all of us on these websites will continue to support one another with the business rather than holding out for the major manufacturer's questionably better and definitely more expensive product. The packa idea may not be for everyone, but I'd bet money that eventually a major gear producer will "think up this great idea for raingear that covers your head and your pack". The cottage gear makers I have encountered have been more than gracious and certainly are not just in it for the $$, they deserve our support.:clap
MileMonster
02-16-2005, 21:56
I use silnylon stuff sacks (all seam sealed), liner bag, and a cover/packa.
My clothes (I don't carry much extra) and sleeping bag go in two sil stuff sacks and inside a trash compactor bag. The rest of my stuff goes in silnylon stuff sacks, no trash compactor bag. I also carry and use a pack cover or The Packa over the outside of my pack.
Needless to say, my stuff stays dry.
minnesotasmith
02-16-2005, 22:27
I'm just glad you're in business, offering such a great product for dealing with some of the challenges inherent in hiking at a reasonable price, and bending over backwards to be convenient to deal with. As soon as I get off this work site (in the absolute middle of nowhere in the Rocky Mountains), I'll be headed your way with cash in hand to buy a Packa; it may be 2 weeks from now, or 6 weeks; I just don't know right now. Later this year, when a female friend of mine can start going on section hikes with me, I'll likely buy another one as a gift for her.
Say, any chance of offering the Packa in other (more earth-toned) colors anytime soon? Any color that helps stealth camping or staying/getting away from problem people would be good IMO. Right now, 2 kinds of green seem to be all you have in that category. Choices the color of rocks, desert terrain, intermittently snowy ground, or tree trunks (deciduous or coniferous) would all be great. Take a look at the new digital camoflage pattern the USMC is using if you get the chance sometime.
pipesmoke
02-17-2005, 08:46
Pack covers are the worst. Keeping gear in water proof packs, ae. plastic, works much better and keeps things organized.
MileMonster
02-17-2005, 09:42
Cedar Tree was great to deal with for me. I wanted a custom Packe and he certainly went above and beyond.
minnesotasmith
05-11-2005, 13:26
This thing is GREAT. It weighs little more than a feather, folds up to less than a pint in volume, has great ventilation, is plenty roomy, has all sorts of places to tighten or loosen it right where you would want them, and basically gives every indication of doing what it is advertised to do.
I am heading off to start an AT section hike today, so am really happy to get my Packa in time for this.
CT was the easiest person in the world to deal with, knew his product cold, and happily took all the time needed to make certain I knew exactly how to use it. He volunteered that if there was any problem, any issue with my packa whatsover, to contact him and he'd make it right.
If you don't have one of these, IMO you don't have the top hiker rain gear currently available.
Stoker53
05-11-2005, 14:26
Is there any functional reason not to waterproof a backpack?
Frank/Nightwalker
My guess would be:
1) higher manufacturing costs leading to higher retail cost - every seam would have to be sealed
2) higher material costs leading to higher retail cost - truly waterproof material is more expensive
3) pack wouild be heavier
None of these are truly functional reasons but manufacturers have to consider all aspects of the packs design. I also suspect that it would be easier to make a totally waterproof ext frame pack than an internal frame and few people carry an ext frame pack anymore. Waterproffing the hip belt attachment points on an internal frame pack has got to be tough.