Insulating the underside of my hammock

[Currahee D]

Since I've last posted on my troubles with insulating the back side of my hammock, I've recently tried hammocking again using a thermarest pad in cooler weather. The thing I'm not sure of is, if it was either the sleeping pad or my new 0 degree Mountain Hardware bag I recently bought at a REI scratch and dent sale??? My last experience was using a 550 down fill Kelty bag in 40 degree temps, and it was way too chilly. My new bag is synthetic fill and not down, I wonder if the synthetic insulation doesn't compress or if it's the pad that kept my back side warm. I'm wondering if I should try a night with the bag alone and no pad, or if I should play it safe and pack the thermarest as well for added insulation???

P.S. on a side note, I registered as a member of the hammockforum.net but I still can't post or reply to any threads?

[Shrkbit143]

You should go to the Hammock Forum webpage. A lot of great info from those folks on hammocks.

http://www.hammockforums.net/

[Fog Horn]

Do some "backyard" testing to see which one was the most effective before taking your set up on the trails.

Chances are it was the pad, not the compressed bag, but there is only one way for you to find out which is best for you, and that is to try it.

[Raul Perez]

I'm probably going to need a bit more info as to what you used in your first hang as far as insulation to help you out.

Also, you can check out my blog... www.watermonkey.net (http://www.watermonkey.net) I have a big section dedicated to hammocking and the basics of the hammocking.

I'd also contact the site admins as to why you cant post on hammock forums.

My best,

Raul
(Water Monkey)

[rhjanes]

You probably need to look at different Under Quilts (UQ). 2/3 length, full length, with and without pad. These attach UNDER the hammock, so zero compression, insulate your backside, plus they can be slid up or down under the hammock, venting it and such. Get over on HF and do some browsing around for UQ (they/we abbreviate a lot)

[Currahee D]

Raul, my first hang (where I became way too cold) was in my ENO double nest with only my 20degree rated down Kelty bag and no pad. The temps were right around 40degrees at night. This past weekend I experimented with a thermarest pad underneath my 0degree synthetic bag.

[Currahee D]

@Rhjanes, I've browsed HF quite a bit, and to be honest I can hardly understand the hammocking jargon not to mention I haven't been able to reply or post any threads after being a member for 2months. Also I've emailed ENO a GAZILLION times on the temp rating of their underquilt, the ENO Ember, and have gotten precisely 0 replies. Have you or anyone else heard of a temp rating on the Eno Ember underquilt?

[Buffalo Skipper]

I agree that the Hammock Forum (HF) is going to be your best source of information. If you cannot post, hopefully the administrators can help you out. They are very accommodating there; let them know you are having trouble.

There is a lot of information to weed through at HF. It took me a some time to find what I wanted there, but once I did, it made much more sense to me. Hammocks, especially underquilts and insulation underneath is different than tents and there is a learning curve. I am much happier in my hammock than on the ground. I can only encourage you to hang in there (no pun intended) and learn about it. For many people it is much more comfortable.

As for your actual question about the pad vs. synthetic sleeping bag, I would most certainly say it was the pad that made the difference. Synthetic material will still compress and loose it's insulating properties. If you are not sure, start out without the pad and see if you are cold on you back (CBS--Cold Butt Syndrom). If so, add the pad and see if that makes a difference.

Remember that pads will only insulate you on the bottom, and not so much on the sides (arms and shoulders if you lay on your back). There are pad extenders available, or underquilts. I have a winter and summer underquilt. The winter (three season) UQ has kept me warm down to 21° (it is rated to 20°), while I use the summer quilt over about 45°. They weigh less than pads and are much, much more comfortable.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

[Raul Perez]

Raul, my first hang (where I became way too cold) was in my ENO double nest with only my 20degree rated down Kelty bag and no pad. The temps were right around 40degrees at night. This past weekend I experimented with a thermarest pad underneath my 0degree synthetic bag.

Well there it is. You absolutely need something under you other than your sleeping bag. The pad is the answer. You compress your down or synthetic bag when you lay on them so you need extra insulation for temps below 70*F

[Yukon]

Underquilt! Enjoy the comfort of the hammock!!

[rjjones]

I started out with a pad and it worked ok.Kept me warm except for my arms when the were not under the pad,and if i fidgeted off the pad.Got an underquilt this year and its awsome.

[rather go up]

The ENO Ember is currently undergoing a reworking according to the company service dept. That is why they won't respond. There are none for sale now that I could find. ENO hopes to have the new ember out for Christmas. Try the underquilt from Jacks-R-Better. I recently bought one and I love mine. Top quality and good service. Will fit a variety of hammocks.
@Rhjanes, I've browsed HF quite a bit, and to be honest I can hardly understand the hammocking jargon not to mention I haven't been able to reply or post any threads after being a member for 2months. Also I've emailed ENO a GAZILLION times on the temp rating of their underquilt, the ENO Ember, and have gotten precisely 0 replies. Have you or anyone else heard of a temp rating on the Eno Ember underquilt?

[Currahee D]

Thanks, I've actually been considering a JRB underquilt, just seems a bit pricey, however I've read that the quality is outstanding. I appreciate the info regarding the Ember, I was beginning to wonder if they were intentionally ignoring me. I don't think I'll be waiting til Christmas for the revised( and hopefully better) version. Too many beautiful fall weekends between now and then to not be hanging.

[Wise Old Owl]

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/DSCF3693.jpg

There's no problem honest continue to use a down compressable - 40 degree light bag or 20 if you are colder... http://www.hammockgear.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3 check this out... this is where I got my custom 3/4
treat your down bag unzipped as a top quilt or Elephants Foot.

[rhjanes]

What helped me overcome some of the "lingo" of hammocks. Go to Youtube. Put in "SHUG". He's posted a lot of "how to" hammock stuff, showing you knots, what terms mean and stuff. Including one on hammock winter camping in Minnesota! He's funny also (I believe he retired from Ringling Brothers as a clown). He has one where he rides his unicycle and launches himself INTO his hammock.

[dla]

What helped me overcome some of the "lingo" of hammocks. Go to Youtube. Put in "SHUG". He's posted a lot of "how to" hammock stuff, showing you knots, what terms mean and stuff. Including one on hammock winter camping in Minnesota! He's funny also (I believe he retired from Ringling Brothers as a clown). He has one where he rides his unicycle and launches himself INTO his hammock.

+100. Much, much better than messing around on a pay forum. Shug's video series is best collection of free information I know of - top quality.

[Yukon]

Hammock Forums is where it's at, come on over...we'll learn ya!

[jafo]

A double layer hammock will let you stuff a pad or solar blanket in between. Sleeping on a pad really isn't an option, the pad and you move in opposite directions. I just tried out a piece foil backed bubble wrap type of insulation from home depot works great.

[medestar]

I have also used pads in the past, and they will work. As mentioned several times, you need something underneath you that will not compress. When you have compressed insulation under you (from your body weight), the insulation factor goes way down. When you add something that does not compress, such as a air filled pad, or closed cell pad, they will retain their insulating qualities. However, the problem with pads, is that you can slide off them and then you get cold spots. As mentioned underquilts, which I have moved to, are (in my opinion) the best way to avoid that. However the down side to them, is that they can cost as bit. If you check around on Hammocks Forum, and other web sites out there, you can learn how to make your own, if you are handy with sewing.

[Currahee D]

So I've decided to take a dyi route and try sewing a pouch onto my Eno doublenest to slide my thermarest or air core pad into. I wonder if this combined with my bag and a tarp will be sufficient to keep warm in the coming months? Does sewing into the parachute material of the ENO hammock compromise it's durability or weight compacity?

[Wise Old Owl]

As a huge fan of the sleep system of the hammock

I still have a thought moment of "Bear Pinata"

[dla]

The pad needs to be snug against you to work.

[RadioFreq]

If you're hesitant to sew on your hammock, but have some loose cash you might want to spring for a Big Agnes sleeping bag. BA bags come with a sleeve built into the bottom of the bag for that inslulation pad. There is no down or synthetic insulation in the bottom of the bag...it's all on the top and sides. With the bag and the pad as one unit you never have to worry about keeping the two aligned all night.

My whole system consists of a 10-year-old Hennessey Expedition with an 8-year-old Jacks-R-Better underquilt. In the summer I use those two items with a light 40 degree bag as a blanket/overquilt. When the temps drop down to below 50 degrees I switch to my 20 degree BA Ranger with a foam pad.

[Fireweed]

I had great luck using a rectangular Lafuma 40 degree bag as a cocoon. Just threaded my hammock thru the foot. Used my summer bag in the hammock w/pad. Super toasty and super cheap compared to quilts. I loved having the hood of the Lafuma to pull around my head and the ventilation was amazing.

[RadioFreq]

I had great luck using a rectangular Lafuma 40 degree bag as a cocoon. Just threaded my hammock thru the foot. Used my summer bag in the hammock w/pad. Super toasty and super cheap compared to quilts. I loved having the hood of the Lafuma to pull around my head and the ventilation was amazing.

That's the 40 degree bag I referred to.

[4eyedbuzzard]

What helped me overcome some of the "lingo" of hammocks. Go to Youtube. Put in "SHUG". He's posted a lot of "how to" hammock stuff, showing you knots, what terms mean and stuff. Including one on hammock winter camping in Minnesota! He's funny also (I believe he retired from Ringling Brothers as a clown). He has one where he rides his unicycle and launches himself INTO his hammock.I'm not sure Shug helped me understand all the lingo, but I did pick up a LOT of understanding on hammocks - and laughed my ass off too. Funny guy.

[smokeeater908]

I have an UQ made from a sleeping bag cut down, and I have used it in 28 degree weather. It was real warm.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

use an underquilt and a top quilt -a sleeping bag compresses on the bottom and provides little warmth plus its difficult to get in and out of a sleeping bag in a hammock ==for additional warmth when using an underquilt try a pad like a Z rest or a nite lite early on i found that a thermarest slips around too much in a hammock when inflated= check out hammock forums there is a wealth of info on how to handle cold weather in a hammock
i use a jacks r better top quilt and underquilt and a nite lite pad in my double bottom War Bonnet Hammock and have been comfortable down in the low teens wearing midweight Ibex LS top and pants and skull cap Shug on hammock forums has some great videos on cold weather hammocking check it out
hillbilly

[Cloudynesz]

Very helpful thread, I am thinking to switch to hammock also.

[generoll]

I tried and abandoned underquilts. It's like packing two sleeping bags. In below freezing weather I go with my BA bag and airmattress. The mattress slides into a pocket in the bag so no sliding around there. When it's above freezing I use a Z-Lite and a center zip sleeping bag I found on the net. Now if BA would just make a center zip bag.

[Tinker]

Another option is to use a sleeping bag around your hammock (unless you have one with attached bug netting). I got the idea from Speer Hammock's Pea Pod. Here's my first experiment with a cheap down bag from Sierra Trading Post. I, as well as others, have found that any space below you between the bottom of the hammock and the insulation in the bag will not be insulated. My current setup is with a tighter mummy shaped hoodless bag (discontinued Golite Feather-Lite) which is warmer than its official 40 degrees. I've used it down to the high 20s. With the addition of a Montbell ulap bag inside as an overquilt I've used the hammock (with a light hooded down jacket) down to 5 degrees in a lot of wind. I also slept with a hot water bottle.
Here's the pic of my early experiment: http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/237103382ByZIeG Photos of my current setup are in the gallery here, but I can't access them now.

[birdygal]

I have an eno single nest , cheap $25 self inflating 1.5 inch wenzle pad ,and a 20 degree cheap mummy bag from ledge, I have been sleeping on my front porch 900 ft above sea level for the last 30 days, Temps have gone down to 35 degrees , The only time I get cold is because I got too hot and came out of my sleeping bag, Took me a while but I found it is actually easier to get in and out of my hammock with the pad The pad keeps the hammock open and doesnt slide at all. I have learned I can roll from side to side and on my back with no problems at all , It does get too cold without a pad though, The only problem I have is it takes me awhile to get the bag zippered up thinking of making a a bag myself that zips in the middle, I am a quilter , I have the skills and a quilting frame to easily make one just not wanting to buy the material / I know cotton is a no no but I have 1000 plus yards of it

[Tom Murphy]

You need insulation underneath you when using a hammock. I am not sure why this is a surprise to anyone anymore.

While a pad can work, below a certain temperature, an underquilt is the best solution.

So you end up with two quilts [top quilt and underquilt] or a sleeping bag and underquilt, thereby negating some of the weight savings from no longer using a tent.

The hammock's main advantages are comfort and site selection. Yes, there are UL hammock set-ups but they can't compete with a tarp, ground cloth, pad, and bag set-up in terms of weight.

I now have a tent, tarp/hammock, and a bivy. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages.

[bannerstone]

To Currahee D, I too found a steep learning curve with the hammockforums jargon, here's a thread with their glossary. It doesn't list the abreviations they use but it helped me figure some of them out.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=192

[gunner76]

Pads work best with a double layer hammock. You stick the pad inbewteen the two layers and they help to minimize the shifting. If you are using an inflatable pad do not fully inflate it. I have used a wally world 24" wide blue pad with great success in my Blackbird double layer hammok down to 18 degrees. I have recently changed over to Under Quilts (UQ) and they are the way to go once you can afford one.


I have sleep on top of my North Face 20 degree sythentic bag using a poncho liner as a blanket in above 50 degree weather while car camping and was very comfortable but would hate to to try and pack the weight while backpacking.


Always test your gear in a controled enviroment (backyard ect, car camping trip with back up gear) so if it does not work out you have a place to retreat to.

[Lea13]

my sister and I just got into hammock camping and tried out some variations this past winter in our backyard. I slept in a less expensive 32 degree sleeping bag inside one of those large emergency blanket/sleeping bags (reflective surfaces) w a child size foam ridge rest (couldn't find my normal one), my sister was in her 40 degree bag with a new liner that was supposed to add ~15 degrees to your sleeping bag rating and an inflatable thermarest. Sorry, I don't know how cold it was exactly, but there was snow on the ground and a gentle breeze rocking us to sleep.
The pad made a significant difference for me, I could definitely tell when I rolled off of it. It was cold, for sure, but I was pretty ok for the most part. My sister was a bit colder than me, her back kept getting cold so maybe the air pad was compressing more than the foam pad was for me, maybe that reflective surface on the emergency blanket really works, I'm not sure, but we both survived the night just fine.

I am curious about those underquilts I've seen and heard so much about. It seems like a brilliant solution and I've heard wonderful reviews about the sleep, but I wonder how much room they take up in a backpack and how easy/difficult they pack up on multi-day trips, if anyone has personal experience with that.

[russb]

my sister and I just got into hammock camping and tried out some variations this past winter in our backyard. I slept in a less expensive 32 degree sleeping bag inside one of those large emergency blanket/sleeping bags (reflective surfaces) w a child size foam ridge rest (couldn't find my normal one), my sister was in her 40 degree bag with a new liner that was supposed to add ~15 degrees to your sleeping bag rating and an inflatable thermarest. Sorry, I don't know how cold it was exactly, but there was snow on the ground and a gentle breeze rocking us to sleep.
The pad made a significant difference for me, I could definitely tell when I rolled off of it. It was cold, for sure, but I was pretty ok for the most part. My sister was a bit colder than me, her back kept getting cold so maybe the air pad was compressing more than the foam pad was for me, maybe that reflective surface on the emergency blanket really works, I'm not sure, but we both survived the night just fine.

I am curious about those underquilts I've seen and heard so much about. It seems like a brilliant solution and I've heard wonderful reviews about the sleep, but I wonder how much room they take up in a backpack and how easy/difficult they pack up on multi-day trips, if anyone has personal experience with that.

ccf pads are quite warm, so your experience doesn't surprise me. As far as UQ's, the space they take up depends on the UQ, they will definitely be less volume than either the ccf pad, or an inflatable pad. My 2/3 summer UQ (I use to just above freezing) packs down to the size of a grapefruit. I use my ccf sit pad for under my feet, else my heels will get cold in all but the heat of summer.

[gunner76]

I did an overnight backpacking trip a couple of weeks ago. My pack with hammock, tarp, Top Quilt, Under Quilt, stove, cookset, food, ect and 3 liters of water weighed in at 20lbs. Everything fit in the pack. If there had been water at the site I was camping at I could have carried less water. I took clothes for temps into the the 40's but it never got below 50.

[DemostiX]

I have a significant investment in underquilts UQs. Also, in down bags by WM.

So far, it is not obvious to me that the convection losses of the system -- air leakage of UQs combined with whatever (eg a partially opened bag, or a top quilt TQ) on top of you don't outweigh the advantages of light weight. The hammocker with UQ surrenders all the devices of the sleeping bag that retain warm air and minimize heat losses from drafts.

These convection losses are well recognized, but only in a backhanded sort of way, with shorter (partial or fractional UQs, just for the torso and upper legs. In a sleeping bag, it is expected that heat from the torso, retained in the bag, will help keep the legs and feet warm. The partial UQ recognizes that may be folly, that heat mayl never get down to and be retained around the legs and feet, in practice stripped away by air currents before it gets there.

Photos posted here of whole hammocks adapted to sleeping bags by threading the hammock through the bag don't demonstrate the elegance of a fine tapered mummy bag, or UQ, either. But, the hammocker can depend, after a trial, that it will be as warom again in the same conditions.

I am, btw, committed to remaining airborn for sleep.