Permethrin Experts Help

[Winds]

Anyone know where to purchase permethrin 40% impregnation kits?
Standard topical applications are 0.5% permethrin.

NOTE (taken from link below):

Treat your uniform with the standard military clothing repellent
(permethrin). Use the IDA kit (NSN 6840-01-345-0237). This product is
a permethrin impregnation kit that contains 40-percent permethrin. One kit
treats one uniform, and the treatment lasts through approximately 50
washes (generally considered the combat life of the uniform).

http://www.crdamc.amedd.army.mil/safety/DODInsectRepellentSystem.pdf

[ChinMusic]

Here is the stuff I use: http://shop.parknicollet.com/Sawyer-Permethrin-Military-Style-Treatment/dp/B005VQA5H6

It has been 100% effective for me.

[jeffmeh]

You can also use this and dilute it yourself. http://www.amazon.com/Control-Solutions-Permethrin-10%25-Quart/dp/B001EVKE0A/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1327679686&sr=1-2

There are other threads on here on the topic. Short answer is that the heavily petroleum-based ones are not really suitable for clothing and they are odoriferous. I used the above one and diluted it to about 0.8%.

[Snowleopard]

The two treatments are almost equivalent. The military treatment contains 9ml of 40% permethrin and is diluted by adding 450 ml of water. This is about 0.8% permethrin vs. 0.5% for the commercial sawyer treatment. Reading the military manuals: how long the treatment lasts depends on the fabric of the clothing. 100% cotton or 50% cotton lasts longest. Waterproof fabric won't work because the solution doesn't soak in. I'd guess treatments of nylon or polyester will not last as long as treatment of cotton.
http://www.afpmb.org/sites/default/files/pubs/techguides/tg36.pdf
Look at pp. 26 to 43. I haven't read the whole thing, but it looks like a useful document.

[Snowleopard]

Jeffmeh was too quick for me. Jeffmeh, ChinMusic and the military are all using about the same concentration of permethrin once it's diluted.
Winds: thanks for that link; it leads to some interesting reading.

[ChinMusic]

I've read other threads about folks wanting to make their own batches from a more concentrated start and just don't get it. The regular (.5%) stuff works. Works 100% for me and I've been in some nasty tick environments. And it's cheap.

The label says 6 weeks. I think 1 month instead for a thru. I just think that abuse (read sweat) that a thruhikers clothing goes through has to subtract a bit from the 6 weeks, of what I assume to be "normal use".

[leaftye]

Here's concentrated permethrin that doesn't smell bad.
http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page275.html

The advantage of concentrated permethrin is that it's somewhat easier to reapply on the trail. I can't find commercial products like the 0.5% Sawyer spray, and even if I could, I'd have a lot left over. The concentrated permethrin could be mailed out to me. It's easy to find spray bottles, so all I'd have to do is mix it and reapply.

[Malto]

You can find a product called Hotshot Bedbug and Flea Control. It is .2% Permethrin and you buy it by the gallon for about $10. I used it and worked like a charm. Not a single tick on me in SoCal on the PCT. I soaked my shirt, pants, socks and gaiters and let it dry. Smelled a bit chemically for a couple of days but it the smell went away.

[Rocket Jones]

I just treated my pants, a couple of shirts and my boonie for the season. 8 ounces of 10% permethrin purchased from CaliforniaPetPharmacy.com, cut into almost 2 gallons of water. Soaked my clothes, wrung them out and left them to dry flat in the sun. After being dry for a day, I washed them in plain water, then put them out in the sun again. No strong chemical smell and this exact same treatment worked great last year, and lasted the whole season through repeated washings.

[Rocket Jones]

I said this on another thread, and it bears repeating here: whatever you use, it should contain ONLY permethrin. Any other active ingredients make it potentially dangerous to use this way.

I wound up buying it online because this year I couldn't find the 'pure' stuff at my usual sources. Everything that contained permethrin also contained one or more other active insecticides or pesticides.

[Rain Man]

... and left them to dry flat in the sun. ...

Laying them flat is advised (as opposed to hanging), if possible. But in the sun? UV light exposure is one of the two factors (the other being washing) that reduces the life-time and effectiveness of Permethrin. I keep mine out of the sun.


... 8 ounces of 10% permethrin ... cut into almost 2 gallons of water. ...

That cuts it to less than .5%. Is that what you meant to do?

Rain Man

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[Wise Old Owl]

Some here are in a field of grey.... what advice here is regulated and possibly near illegal. I am not a mod and IDGAD so here goes when in the process of apply you need to read this FIRST

Respiratory protection: Not usually required. Avoid inhalation of vapors.
Ventilation: Local Exhaust: As required to meet exposure guidelines. Special: Not applicable.
Mechanical: As required to meet exposure guidelines. Other: Not applicable.
Protective Gloves: Chemical resistant.
Eye Protection: Face shield, safety glasses or goggles.
Other protective clothing or equipment: Wear long pants, long sleeved shirt or other body covering clothes. Avoid skin or eye
contact.
Work/Hygienic practices: Wash thoroughly after handling and before eating. Do not wear contaminated clothing.


I am just saying - take the precautions, I don't want you to get hurt. It is a concentrate.- YES I AM IN PROFESSIONAL PEST CONTROL.

So you have to let the clothing dry for several days.
For others - How is it that stealth gets a lock and this stuff -get's a pass?

Please end the thread we are not here to educate on chemicals.

[Blissful]

Please end the thread we are not here to educate on chemicals.

Discussing chemicals to RX clothing isn't promoting illegal activity.

It's elementary rules, Watson. :)

[Rocket Jones]

Laying them flat is advised (as opposed to hanging), if possible. But in the sun? UV light exposure is one of the two factors (the other being washing) that reduces the life-time and effectiveness of Permethrin. I keep mine out of the sun.
Rain Man

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Didn't know that. All I know is that they dried faster that way. Total exposure was a couple of hours, about what they'd get on a long day on the trail.


That cuts it to less than .5%. Is that what you meant to do? I guesstimated it was less than 2 gallons, because I didn't measure precisely. I'm guessing here, but it was probably more than a gallon, and definitely less than two. Call it 1.5?

[Winds]

Although I am still curious as to the concentration enhancing and prolonging use, thus making it superior - I will default to the 0.5% spray.

I did read some reviews that recommended to get a spray bottle and not use a standard can as they tend to clog (?).

Thanks for all the input here.

[Wise Old Owl]

Discussing chemicals to RX clothing isn't promoting illegal activity.

It's elementary rules, Watson. :)

Application without knowledge and license is pure folly.... my post was more about education and safety,

Look I have had more close calls than you no matter what you say.... I am advocating using your brain to the thread starter... My heart is in the right place.

[leaftye]

Didn't know that. All I know is that they dried faster that way. Total exposure was a couple of hours, about what they'd get on a long day on the trail.


That cuts it to less than .5%. Is that what you meant to do? I guesstimated it was less than 2 gallons, because I didn't measure precisely. I'm guessing here, but it was probably more than a gallon, and definitely less than two. Call it 1.5?
Squeezing it out probably left less permethrin on the clothing too. Did you save the extra diluted permethrin? You can always use that to spray on your clothing to renew and strengthen the treatment.

[Rocket Jones]

Squeezing it out probably left less permethrin on the clothing too. Did you save the extra diluted permethrin? You can always use that to spray on your clothing to renew and strengthen the treatment.

I did save the leftovers because I might want to treat more clothing (or re-treat) later in the season.

[Rain Man]

For others - How is it that stealth gets a lock and this stuff -get's a pass?

Depends on which version of "stealth" is being promoted/described "how to." If it means camping illegally, then it should be blocked, as promoting illegal activities is prohibited by the User Agreement. Same for "packing heat" illegally. Should be blocked. Period.

Rain Man

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[Rain Man]

Didn't know that. All I know is that they dried faster that way. Total exposure was a couple of hours, about what they'd get on a long day on the trail.

I don't know if it makes a difference being wet in the one instance, but being dry on the trail. I just know the official Sawyer video on YouTube mentioned the two factors that reduce effectiveness (washing and UV light). I do know that once it "sets" by drying, it changes in some critical manner. For instance, it's no longer a danger to kill cats.


That cuts it to less than .5%. Is that what you meant to do? I guesstimated it was less than 2 gallons, because I didn't measure precisely. I'm guessing here, but it was probably more than a gallon, and definitely less than two. Call it 1.5?

Diluting 10% to .5% is a 20-to-1 factor. So, 8 ounces in 160 oz would give .5%. One gallon is 128 oz. Mixing 8 oz in 1.5 gallons (192 oz) would yield just over .4%. Perhaps that's close enough? And perhaps that's better than erring on the high side?

Rain Man

P.S. Since the thread heading reads "Permethrin Experts Help," perhaps I should just butt out! NOT an expert at all.

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[Winds]

What I have found, and rather quickly too, is that no one is an expert regarding a thru-hike with tick AND other parasite issues. I titled as such to get attention and replies. As always, I am trying to calculate a strategy and that is going to prove difficult here.

This topic raises more health concerns with each aspect I learn.