Canister Stove/Fuel FAQ

Edited by Yellow Jacket (tlbj6142)<o>
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Q: Can I mail canisters?<o></o>

Yes, according to USPS guidelines, you can ship a 1L (or smaller) canister via ground delivery if the package is marked with an “ORM-D” and/or "Surface Delivery Only" sticker. This is the same sticker that must be placed on a package if it contains alcohol hand sanitizer (Purell).<o></o>

See http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.pdf, section 342.22a-c, for details.

However, don't be surprised if some post masters quickly respond with a "heck no you can't ship butane in the mail", as some seem to take the "better to say 'no' than bother to find out for sure" approach.:p

Conversation from a trip to PO (Dublin, OH 43017 4/4/2005 about noon):

Me: Holding an 8oz MSR canister in my hand. "Can I ship this propane/butane fuel in the mail?"
PM: "No."
Me: Holding Section 342.22a-c from Pub 52 in my hand. "According to Pub 52, it reads like I might be able to as long as I ship less than 1L of fuel."
PM: Walks over to some big chart on the wall. Stood there for several seconds and came back to the counter. "Looks like you can, but I'll need to mark the package as 'Surface Mail Only'".
Me: "Do I need to fill out any additional paper work?"
PM: "No"
Me: "Do I need to leave the box open when I arrive at the PO?"
PM: "No, just declare the package's contents and the PM will need to put 'Surface Mail Only' on the outside of the package."
Me: "Are there any additional fees?"
PM: "No"
Me: "Will you put the ORM-D sticker on the box?"
PM: "No, we don't stock them. I just need to mark the package as 'Surface Mail Only'."

This is where it gets a bit funny (at least to hikers).

Me: "Can I send the package General Delivery?"
PM: "Does the person you are sending it to have an GD account setup with their PO?
Me: "No, I'll be sending it to myself."
PM: "If you want to send any package GD, you need to notify the PO before you send the package."
Me: Trying not to laugh. "It's common practice for hikers and backpackers to send packages to themselves via GD. They don't typically notify the PO."
PM: "Our PM does not allow us received GD packages. Other PM have their own rules."

So, if your your PM tells you no, mention Publication 52 (and/or bring a copy of printed page 42, document page 28) and that you are mailing less than 1L of fuel. Reassure the PM by stating that you expect the package to be delivered via "Surface Mail Only". You might want to bring in your package opened just so the PM can "see" canister, though that does not appear to be a requirement.

The one thing I forgot to ask about was Priority Mail. While over short distances Priority Mail is probably delivered via surface mail, I expect it isn't if delivered over long distances.


Q: Where are canisters available along the AT?<o></o>

While not as readily available as alcohol, with a bit of planning you should not have to worry about fuel availability. The following is a list of crossings which our members claim carries canister fuel.<o></o>

Any “real” outfitter will carry canister fuel. Call ahead if you are not sure.<o></o>

Yes: Walasi-Yi, NOC, <st1:city w:st="on">Hot Springs</st1:city>, Erwin (I think Uncle Johnny has them), <st1:city w:st="on"><st1>Damascus</st1>, </st1:city>Pearisburg, Daleville (near Troutville),<st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city> <st1:city w:st="on">Waynesboro</st1:city>, <st1:city w:st="on">Williamstown</st1:city>, Harpers Ferry, <st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city>Front Royal, Port Clinton, Pawling, Cornwall Bridge, Great Barrington, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Kent</st1:country-region>, <st1><st1:city w:st="on">Manchester Center</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">Hanover</st1:state></st1>, Pinkham Notch, Gorham, Caratunk, Monson<o></o>

Maybe (?): I'm pretty sure Delaware Water Gap has canisters.<o></o>

No: Duncannon, Boiling Springs, Unionville, <st1:city w:st="on">Salisbury

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Q: Can all stoves use any of the fuel mixtures available from other manufactures?

Yes, as long as the attachment fitting on your stove is compatible with that of the cansiter's (See next question). Check your stove's instructions to be sure. And be aware that some manufactures claim using 3rd party cansiters voids your stove's warranty. But, then, what can go wrong with a canister stove?:rolleyes:

The various fuel mixtures are attempts at over-coming the issues with using pure propane or pure butane. In particular, propane is heavy and butane doesn't expand all that well below freezing. So, a mixture of these gasses is used to overcome both of these issues to one degree or another.

The various mixtures also have some affect on stove performance at a given temperature and altitude. As each of the gases used has dramatically different temperature vs. ambient pressure characteristics.

Taken directly from the BackpackingLight.com's Canister Stove FAQ: (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html)
Fuel that is a mix of iso-butane (boiling point 12 °F) and propane, works better in below freezing temperatures than fuel containing butane (boiling point 31 °F), because the fuel in the canister will continue to vaporize (albeit more sluggishly) at cold temperatures. For cold temperature performance (below freezing), the propane is the basic driving force (because of its low boiling point) that makes the stove work; iso-butane will volatilize and burn along with the propane (but in decreasing amounts) down to its boiling point of 12 °F, while the n-butane will just sit there. Warming the canister will enable it to perform at even lower temperatures. Examples of cold weather fuels are: MSR IsoPro fuel - 80% iso-butane and 20% propane; Snow Peak GigaPower fuel - 85% iso-butane and 15% propane; and Jetboil JetPower fuel which is 20-30% propane with the remainder iso-butane.

Q: Is there more than one type of canister adaptor?

Yes. There are two different attachment fittings. The vast majority (including all US manufactures) of canister stoves use the EN417 Lindal valve, while in Europe, several use the Camping Gaz canisters which are very similar except that the valve is smooth instead of threaded like the Lindal valve. At least one stove, the MSR Superfly, will work with either type of fitting.

In the US, the Lindal fitting is by far the most common. In fact, it is difficult to even find canisters for the Camping Gas fitting.

See BackpackingLight.com's Canister Stove FAQ for details (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html).

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Q: How weight efficient is a canister stove?<o></o>

According to tests performed by our pal Sgt. Rock and ACYE they are very weight efficient. If the empty canisters were a bit lighter and/or could be refilled, we wouldn't even need this FAQ as everyone would be carrying canister stoves.<o></o>

Most users who boil 16oz (2 cups) of water once per day are able to make 8oz (12oz including the canister weight) of fuel last 10-14 days.<o></o>

See http://www.thru-hiker.com/articles.asp?subcat=2&cid=57 and http://hikinghq.net/stoves/weight_time_compare.html for more details, including pretty pictures and dozens of charts.
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Q: I've read that canisters stoves are unstable, is this true?

The majority of canister stoves attach on top of the canister, thereby creating a rather high center of gravity. Care should be taken to ensure the cansiter itself is placed on a stable level surface before placing a filled pot on the stove. Furthermore, pots larger than 2qts are probably too big for most canister stoves. We don't want any spilled noodles now do we.:eek:

Brunton makes the CanStand (http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=276) which attaches to the bottom of the fuel canister to improve the entire setup's stability. It can be used with any 4oz or 8oz canister and stove.

There is at least one stove, MSR WindPro (http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/windpro.asp), which has its own stand and does not sit on top of the fuel canister. Consider this stove if you are cooking larger (> 2qts) meals for groups.


Q: Can I use a windscreen with my canister stove?<o></o>

Sure, as long as you don’t let the canister get too hot. If you can put your bare hand on the side of the canister for 15 seconds while the stove is in use, the canister is fine. Consider a ¾ windscreen like the one shown at the bottom of BackpackingLight.com's Canister Stove FAQ. (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html)
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Q: Should I run the stove wide open?<o></o>

Not unless you have no interest in fuel efficiency. Studies on www.backpackinglight.com (http://www.backpackinglight.com/) indicate a savings of 18% to 46% can be achieved my reducing the fuel output.


Q: How can I tell how much fuel is left in the canister?

While I haven't confirmed this yet, I have read if you place a canister in water it will float. The water-line is suppose to represent the fuel line.

Weigh a full cansiter before you leave on your trip. Whenever you walk through a town, stop by the PO (or Deli counter???) and weigh your canister. Eventually you'll have gathered enough data points to determine how much is left in the canister and how long you can expect it to last.

<o></o><o></o>Various stove model comments:<o></o>

MSR Pocket Rocket (http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/pocket_rocket.asp): Light, easy to use and cheap (~$40 retail). The pot stands are a bit wobbly. The hard plastic case it comes with is really cool.:)

I own a Pocket Rocket (seduced by the triangular case and a 10% off coupon), but I would not buy one again as the pot stand is way too unstable IMO. Unless the bottom of your pot is ridged (like most of the MSR pots), your pot can easily slide around on the tips (the only point of contact) of the three legs. There are several other stoves on the market for the same price that offer "better" pot stands.<o></o>

(http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?product_id=9741-700) Coleman Exponent Ultralight F1 (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?product_id=9741-700): Very similar to the MSR Pocket Rocket (including cost), but has a more stable pot stand (the legs are flat, rather than pointed like the PR). Received top marks on a recent canister stove round-up on www.backpackinglight.com (http://www.backpackinglight.com/). It is the only stove in the round-up to boil water in cold windy conditions (lab generated) besides the Jetboil.<o></o>

Jetboil (http://www.jetboil.com/): This all-in-one setup includes a cup, pot, stove, “pot cozy”, Piezo igniter and handle. The entire setup including a small canister (4oz of fuel?) fits inside the pot. It works great in windy setups as the stove has a built-in windscreen and heat exchanger. It is a bit pricy, and heavy, compared to other setups. It has a manufacture maximum water capacity of 0.5L despite having a 1L pot. The folks a www.backpackinglight.com (http://www.backpackinglight.com/) see no reason why 0.8L can’t be safely boiled in the setup.<o></o><o></o>

Snow Peak GigaPower (http://www.snowpeak.com/Gear/stoves_index.html): As good or better than the Pocket Rocket, and costs the same. Has a "better" pot stand than the PR and most models come with Piezo igniter.

Brunton (Crux and Raptor): (http://www.brunton.com/catalog.php?subcat=11) Good stoves. Both have Piezo igniters. The Crux (http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=244) model will fold up such that it fits into the underside of a can of fuel for very compact storage.

Large portions of this information were collected from the following resources:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7294
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6152
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2868
BackpackingLight.com's Canister Stove FAQ (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html)
Gas Stove FAQ -- by Roger Caffin (http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm)

First edition 4/2/2005.

4/3/2005 -- incorporated a few more comments from users. I need to put the towns "in order" from S to N.

4/4/2005 -- Finally fixed the links in the resource section and re-ordered questions. Added conversation with my local PM. Other minor edits. Added Brunton. Added stability question.

4/11/05 -- Fixed quoting method used as "article" viewing doesn't appear to show quotes correctly. Updated Pub 52 page references.

4/25/2007 -- Added note about PO scales.

7/05/2007 -- Added link to Roger's stove FAQ

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My unanswered question is the definition of "address." Local postal dude had some reservation about GD, might depend on the local interpretation. He suggested I bring in the box open, blah blah blah. Pain in the tookus.

Nice post.

Cannisters are also available in Pearisburg (definitely the Wal-Mart and maybe the hardware store; the outfitter in Daleville (near Troutville); Front Royal; Port Clinton (definitely Cabela's in Hamburg or Appalachian Outfitters in P.C.);
Pawling, N.Y.; Cornwall Bridge; Great Barrington.

In addition to the stoves listed, I think the Snow Peak GigaPower is as good or better than the Pocket Rocket, and costs the same.

Clear, concise, and well organized. Nice work, Yellow Jacket.

Two quick questions - do all canister stoves use the same fuel, or do different canister stoves use different types of canister fuel? Do all canisters have the same attachment fittings?

updated earlier today. Figured I post this so existing subscribers could review the changes.

updated earlier today. Figured I post this so existing subscribers could review the changes.Ditto. Re-ordered questions and fixed links.

Excellent. This should go in the articles section if its not already.

yea i just realized it is in the articles section. :o

The difficulty with testing how much fuel is left in the canister is a difficult one. The notion of a waterline test is not very practical in the field. I have found that I can give the cannister a gentle shake. If I feel something moving about in there, the canister is still charged. The more wiggle, the more fuel. This is akin to shaking a whitegas stove bottle to see how much gas is left. Not the best method, but you can get a reasonable estimate this way.

On the GDT, I carried some solid fuel tabs as backups, and I needed them.

The hot-water method of measuring how much fuel is left is used on some gas-grill propane tanks. A temperature-sensitive strip (that turns color when hot) is permanently glued to the side of the tank. What you do is pour very hot water down this strip; the whole strip will turn color. The portion of the strip below the fuel "waterline" will absorb the heat quickly and the strip will quickly go back to normal color in this zone while the part above will remain dark. I have not seen this in camp stoves but I guess it could be done. Even though it supposedly is safe, I'm a bit nervous about pouring hot water on a pressurized can of flammable gas, I don't want to stress the metal or anything.

Personally what I do is weigh the canister on a postal scale and subtract what a "known empty weight" from an old spent canister. This is only useful when starting a trip of course...unless you want to carry the scale.

I haven't tried this on a cannister stove, but it works on the big (20#) propane bottles. And it's not for the trail, but a good way to check levels at home. With the stove running (so you have evap/conversion cooling), use a non-contact infrared thermometer to scan down the side of the tank...you'll see a temp change at the liquid fuel level.

Ditto. Re-ordered questions and fixed links.One more time. Added conversation with my local PM.

I haven't tried this on a cannister stove, but it works on the big (20#) propane bottles. And it's not for the trail, but a good way to check levels at home. With the stove running (so you have evap/conversion cooling), use a non-contact infrared thermometer to scan down the side of the tank...you'll see a temp change at the liquid fuel level.\

Brunton sells stick on type thermometers that allow you to find the level of the cannister. They are single use only I think.

Here is a link to the Brunton site: http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=274

We should add the Brunton Crux to the list of stoves. It nests in the concave dimple in the cannister, so it is very compact. Others have complained about the stability, but I have had zero issues with mine. I think it is 500 BTUs hotter than the MSR Pocket Rocket.

One more time. Added conversation with my local PM.Added Brunton and stove stability question.

Something on the efficiency of the different kinds of fuel out there might be nice. I've noticed that, say, the Snowpeak stuff last longer than the MSR stuff, and both vastly outperform the blue stuff. But, this is coming from a month of use last summer. Others with more experience or scientific knowledge might be able to provide better insight and info.

Something on the efficiency of the different kinds of fuel out there might be nice.Wouldn't that be temperature and altitude related? Though, I guess I could add that to the FAQ.

Wouldn't that be temperature and altitude related? Though, I guess I could add that to the FAQ.

Yes, for sure. However, at a given altitude and temperature, I think that the chemical compositions of the different brands leads to different performances. For example, in at 4000 ft and 50 degree ambient temperature, the Snow Peak should outlast the blue things by a large margin. Drop the temperature to 30 degrees and the same thing should be true, although it is unclear if the relative difference will stay the same, increase, or decrease.

Great article and info. Most of the guys I hiked with had canister stoves (pocket rockets) and their stoves definately had more juice than my alcohol stove did. Still I can't get over the idea of wasting all those canisters. If there was a way to keep refilling the canister I'd probably use one, but I can't warrant throwing away all that material. Can they at least be recycled in towns?

Yes, for sure. However, at a given altitude and temperature, I think that the chemical compositions of the different brands leads to different performances.The bpl cansister stove FAQ hints at this a bit, and I don't believe they go into any more details in another ariticle (which is odd given their scientific approach gear reviews and comentary).

Great article and info. Most of the guys I hiked with had canister stoves (pocket rockets) and their stoves definately had more juice than my alcohol stove did. Still I can't get over the idea of wasting all those canisters. If there was a way to keep refilling the canister I'd probably use one, but I can't warrant throwing away all that material. Can they at least be recycled in towns?This is a major issue with canister stoves. I'm sure the material can be recycled, but I'd expect you'd need to make sure the canister was empty and punctured (Yikes!!) before dropping them in bin.

While I won't put this in the FAQ, I suspect allowing the stove to burn off all of the fuel on a warm day. And then, with the valve open, "church key" (or nail punch) the bottom of the can would do the trick in a safe mannor.

the Snowpeak stuff last longer than the MSR stuff, and both vastly outperform the blue stuff.From the quote I just added, it seems as though Snowpeak has the greatest amount of iso-butane. What brand is the "blue stuff"? I though European Camp Gaz was in blue containers, but that stuff won't work on your PR.

I had me one of those blue stoves when I was in Germany about 20 years ago. I hated it. If I remember it was an all butane canister.

I can't remember the brand name of the blue stuff, but I think it is mostly butane. The ladies I finished up the GDT with were using it. I had a new MSR canister, they had a new blue one. At the end, mine had a ton of fuel left. Theirs was empty. We ate the same quantity of food (me twice as much as each of them), and I boiled up some additional tea. We had different models of stoves, but that shouldn't make too much of a difference.

In terms of recycling canisters, you can take them to a lot of outdoor stores in major towns to get them recycled. However, this is always a bit uncertain. The REI in Tacoma or the MEC in Calgary will recycle them. But, the climbing store in Jasper won't. My suspicion is that several of the early on outfitters would recycle them for you, but I have nothing to base this on other than their overall quality.

Thanks for this FAQ, folks. This has definitely made me rethink canister stoves, I had completely written them off before in favor of alcohol stoves. Definitely something to look at with fresh eyes.

This is the very best link that I have come across concerning canister stove fuel. http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/canister_stove_faq.html

I can't remember the brand name of the blue stuff, but I think it is mostly butane. The ladies I finished up the GDT with were using it. I had a new MSR canister, they had a new blue one. At the end, mine had a ton of fuel left. Theirs was empty. We ate the same quantity of food (me twice as much as each of them), and I boiled up some additional tea. We had different models of stoves, but that shouldn't make too much of a difference.


Not so, a 10,000 BTU stove will use more fuel than an 8,000 BTU. The efficiency of the cooking pot and numerous other factors skew the results. The blue stuff (Gaz) is 80% Butane 20% propane, and works very well at summertime temps.

Not so, a 10,000 BTU stove will use more fuel than an 8,000 BTU. The efficiency of the cooking pot and numerous other factors skew the results. The blue stuff (Gaz) is 80% Butane 20% propane, and works very well at summertime temps.

What part is not so? That using different models of stoves doesn't matter much? I'll agree that factors other than fuel brand will affect efficiency, but I doubt it would be the extent that I saw it.

I'm a little unsure why an 8000 BTU stove will use less fuel to heat a fixed volume of water to a fixed temperature than a 10,000 BTU stove will. Perhaps you could explain this? After all, it seems like it would logically follow that a 6000 BTU stove will be more efficient than a 8000 BTU stove. And this would imply...

I'm a little unsure why an 8000 BTU stove will use less fuel to heat a fixed volume of water to a fixed temperature than a 10,000 BTU stove will.
It shouldn't, the 10,000 BTU unit would probably only do it faster. It would depend on the efficiency of the stove/pot/windscreen cover, as was mentioned. I'd bet that something like the Jetboil would be more efficient than the standard hiker setup.

It shouldn't, the 10,000 BTU unit would probably only do it faster. It would depend on the efficiency of the stove/pot/windscreen cover, as was mentioned. I'd bet that something like the Jetboil would be more efficient than the standard hiker setup.
All I said was that a 10k BTU stove uses more gas than an 8 kBTU stove. If one were to assume 100% efficiency (never happen) and all other things being equal both stoves would use the same amout of fuel to bring an equal volume of liquid to a boil. The 10k would do it faster. You are absolutely right that a high efficiency rig like a jetboil is the ticket to lower fuel consumption.

All I said was that a 10k BTU stove uses more gas than an 8 kBTU stove. If one were to assume 100% efficiency (never happen) and all other things being equal both stoves would use the same amout of fuel to bring an equal volume of liquid to a boil. The 10k would do it faster. You are absolutely right that a high efficiency rig like a jetboil is the ticket to lower fuel consumption.
It does have a lower fuel consumption at the trade off of a higher weight. IMO the test is not total efficiency, but weight efficiency. So adding 6-7 ounces of weight may save you 0.16 ounces of fuel, but what is the point of that. You could get similar fuel savings from a canister by boiling your water slower without adding extra weight.

All I said was that a 10k BTU stove uses more gas than an 8 kBTU stove. If one were to assume 100% efficiency (never happen) and all other things being equal both stoves would use the same amout of fuel to bring an equal volume of liquid to a boil. The 10k would do it faster. You are absolutely right that a high efficiency rig like a jetboil is the ticket to lower fuel consumption.

Uses more gas to do what? To bring a given volume of water to a given temperature? It seems that this is what you are indicating. That is, in the field, with all other things being equal (pot, temperature, wind, etc), an 8000 BTU stove will bring 2 cups of water to a boil using less fuel than a 10000 BTU stove? Wouldn't the same be true of a 6000 BTU stove?

Perhaps the reason is that a 10000 BTU stove generates a larger flame spread than an 8000 BTU thing and that means wasted heat. However, I doubt that an alcohol stove of a fixed diameter would boil water with a smaller amount of methyl alcohol (fewer BTU) than with ethyl (more BTU).

Doesn't the BTU rating of a stove simply mean the maximum output at any one given time?

BTUs of the fuel never change. A fuel that has 18,000 BTUs per pound always has 18,000 BTUs per pound. So a 10,000 BTU stove doesn't get 10,000 BTUs of energy from a canister while a 6,000 BTU stove only gets 6,000 from the same canister. Both stoves would get 18,000 total BTUs from the canister, but the 10,000 could burn out the canister faster while putting out more at one time.

This is certainly true, but the issue raised was whether or not the fuel mixture mattered. That is, will using a fuel with less BTUs boil a fixed volume of water using less fuel than a stove with more BTUs. Butane, I think, has fewer BTUs than some of the other blends out there. In the example I gave, I'm pretty certain that methyl, having one fewer carbon atom, has fewer BTUs than ethyl (was methyl).

You used methyl twice:D

Ethyl has more BTUs than Methyl. 12,250 in ethyl, 10,200 in methyl.

Gasses:

<TABLE rules=all border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=275 bgColor=#ffffff>

</TD><TD width=142 bgColor=#ffffff>Propane

</TD><TD width=126 bgColor=#ffffff>Butane

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE rules=all border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=275 bgColor=#ffffff>BTU/lb. - gas

</TD><TD width=142 bgColor=#ffffff>21591

</TD><TD width=126 bgColor=#ffffff>21221

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE rules=all border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=275 bgColor=#ffffff>Flash point, F.

</TD><TD width=142 bgColor=#ffffff>-156

</TD><TD width=126 bgColor=#ffffff>N.A.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So butane and propane have the same number of BTUs per pound. What else goes into the canisters that could account for the different longevities?

I don't know LOL. Where is a chemist when you need one?

Aren't we forgetting partial pressures of the gasses (just writing that down makes my brain hurt a bit)? If the gas mixture is different between one canister brand and another, even at the same temp/altitude the output mixture would be the same?

Maybe? Am I close?

Great article and info. Most of the guys I hiked with had canister stoves (pocket rockets) and their stoves definately had more juice than my alcohol stove did. Still I can't get over the idea of wasting all those canisters. If there was a way to keep refilling the canister I'd probably use one, but I can't warrant throwing away all that material. Can they at least be recycled in towns?
Even Coleman fluid comes in a gallon can that has to be thrown out.

The problem I have with my Coleman gallon can is that since I keep it in my shed out back behind the house the bottom is beginning to rust out with about 3/4 gallon of fluid left in there. If I toss the entire thing out, am I not poluting even more that throwing out a small completely empty canister?

Panzer

I haven't tried this on a cannister stove, but it works on the big (20#) propane bottles. And it's not for the trail, but a good way to check levels at home. With the stove running (so you have evap/conversion cooling), use a non-contact infrared thermometer to scan down the side of the tank...you'll see a temp change at the liquid fuel level.
Works for little ones on the trail as well. No thermometer needed, just run yer finger down the side and feel where it starts getting cold. Figgered that one out very recently, and accidentally.

The "weigh it" one is easy. Grocery store, outfitter, post office; they all have scales. Weigh it when you think that it's about halfway time to re-up, and you'll know if your estimate is correct.

On a similar topic, I cut two 1/2" thick pieces of expanded styrofoam to a barely-fit size for the lid of my Snow Peak Trek 1400 Ti. I then cut a disc of aluminum flashing to the size of the rim that sets on the pot and contact-cemented it in place. The lid stays cool even unto boiling temps in the pot. Boiling time is seriously reduced. The contact cement shows no sign of releasing accidentally, even after many repeated uses. And I never used the lid as a frying pan anyway. It was one of my better "odd ideas that worked."

Something on the efficiency of the different kinds of fuel out there might be nice. I've noticed that, say, the Snowpeak stuff last longer than the MSR stuff, and both vastly outperform the blue stuff. But, this is coming from a month of use last summer. Others with more experience or scientific knowledge might be able to provide better insight and info.
Primus Power Gas 4 season mix claims to work at -15F. MSR has a 2-part gas that claims to work at -10F. Snow Peak is the cheapest to buy, but it lasts the least amount of time, in my unscientific experience. It's also fussy in cold temps. I've used the other two below 20F numerous times with no problems. The days of canister stoves not working in cold weather seem to be in the past

It shouldn't, the 10,000 BTU unit would probably only do it faster. It would depend on the efficiency of the stove/pot/windscreen cover, as was mentioned. I'd bet that something like the Jetboil would be more efficient than the standard hiker setup.
It should also be mentioned that the stove manufacturers sell gas as well. My Pocket Rocket instructions said to open the valve 3/4 of a turn to cook efficiently. No way! If I did that, I'd only get the wimpy burn times listed on the canister. As it is, with 3/8 to 1/2 turn of the valve, I get 50-75% more life from a can.

I look at it like this: When I cook with alcohol, I use about five ounces per day. Alcohol has a .79 specific gravity, so let's say 4 oz. in weight per day. My alcohol stove weighs 10 grams, and my fuel bottle is approximately one ounce.

My Pocket Rocket weighs 3 ounces. A 16 ounce can of gas weighs 24 ounces. It has always lasted more than 2 weeks, but I'll use 2 weeks as a base number.

Alcohol: 10 grams (approximately 1/3 ounce) for the stove, 1 ounce for the fuel bottle, 4 ounces per day times 2 weeks. That adds up to 57 1/3 ounces.

Gas: 3 ounces for the stove, 24 ounces for the canister. That's 27 ounces for 2 weeks. And remember, I'm shading this to give the benefit of the doubt to alcohol. I've got 2 weeks in my current canister and it sounds about 1/3 full.

This comparison gives pressurized gas a better than 2:1 lead on efficiency for the long haul. It's also faster and less of a hassle.

The same comparison works with a smaller can. A 7 ounce can of MSR gas weighs 12 ounces and always lasts me a week or more. 12 + 3 =15 for gas vs. (7 * 4) + 1 + 1/3 = 29 1/3 ounces for alcohol. Still basically 2:1.

A counter argument: "I only use 2 ounces of alcohol per day". At that rate, and estimating conservatively, a 7 ounce can of MSR Iso-Pro gas will last an amazing 17.5 days. The math? (12+3)=15 for gas vs. (17.5 * (2 * .79 )) + 1 + 1/3 = 28.983 for alcohol. Still very close to 2:1 better for canister gas.

If you could re-supply your alcohol every 2 days, and use a 1/2 ounce fuel bottle because of the smaller capacity requirement, you could come out with a lower average trail weight, but that'd be pushing a point well beyond its limit. Alcohol also has issues at lower temps.

I could see alcohol for a weekend, but not for a thru-hike. You carry what you want. :D

4 ounces of fuel per day? You have to be doing something wrong.

So butane and propane have the same number of BTUs per pound. What else goes into the canisters that could account for the different longevities?
You'd have to sign a non-disclosure agreement with a non-compete clause to find out. Then they'd either make something up or lie to you. :D

I could see alcohol for a weekend, but not for a thru-hike. Follow the links in the "are canister stoves weight efficent" section above. Your ideas have been discussed eleswhere and have quite a bit of science behind them.

In short, canisters stove are more weight efficent if you can't resupply every 10-14 days. Otherwise alcohol wins out every time. Well actually, ebit stoves are even lighter but they cost a bit more and most folks find them a bit messy.

4 ounces of fuel per day? You have to be doing something wrong.
The test was in February with February stream water, on the Foothuills Trail.

Two 16 ounce cups of coffee, two lunch/dinner meals needing the same and one morning oatmeal needing 2.75 cups of water. The canister was the same.

All but the last took about 7 drams, and the last took 9 drams. 3 5/8 ounces. Close enough.

Two 16 ounce cups of coffee, two lunch/dinner meals needing the same and one morning oatmeal needing 2.75 cups of water. The canister was the same.If you cook that much on the trail. You are correct, alcohol stoves are not the answer. For most folks that use 2-3cups of water, once per day, alcohol stoves are fine.

I could see alcohol for a weekend, but not for a thru-hike. You carry what you want. :D===========================================
Not going to dispute your math but stop for a minute and think about all the people using alcohol stoves for thru-hikes. Maybe things have changed since my thru in 2003 but the vast majority of thru-hikers then were using alcohol. Can't quote you an exact number but I know what I saw.

I feel just the opposite about cannister versus alcohol cooking. I use propane/butane fuel on short hikes when I don't mind carrying the cannister. For long distance/duration hikes I have found alcohol to be the better choice.

But ...like you said, hikers should carry what they want.

'Slogger

I feel just the opposite about cannister versus alcohol cooking. I use propane/butane fuel on short hikes when I don't mind carrying the cannister. For long distance/duration hikes I have found alcohol to be the better choice.I really think the choice is more related to how much you cook. And the rate at which you can re-supply. And, Frank has overlooked the annoying issue with canisters in that you will need to carry more than one canister for short distances.

Franklooper is cooking 9cups (2.25 qts):eek: of water per day for one person(?). IMO, that's a lot of cooking (some folks barely drink that much water per day on the trail, let alone use that much to cook with). Most thru-hikers cook 2-3cups per day, about 1/3 of his consumption.

I use my canister stove whenever I need to cook for more than 2 people, or when I expect to cook "fancier" meals that require longer burn/simmer times. This happens most often when I take my (young) kids along. Once they get a bit older, I'll probably have them cook their own meals on an alcohol stove.

===========================================
I feel just the opposite about cannister versus alcohol cooking. I use propane/butane fuel on short hikes when I don't mind carrying the cannister. For long distance/duration hikes I have found alcohol to be the better choice.

But ...like you said, hikers should carry what they want.

'Slogger

I do exactly the same thing. During the summer, I usually take an alcohol stove, partly because of the lightness, but also because fuel is easier to get (usually). During the off season, I bring a canister stove because it is quick and I tend to boil more than once a day. For example, in the evening, when I want my special chocolate-coffee-whiskey mixture, I want it right away.

Franklooper is cooking 9cups (2.25 qts) of water per day for one person(?). IMO, that's a lot of cooking (some folks barely drink that much water per day on the trail, let alone use that much to cook with). Most thru-hikers cook 2-3cups per day, about 1/3 of his consumption.
Don't know what to tell you, but things that require water added are lighter than things that start out wet. I've messed around with no-cook "wet" stuff as a larger portion of my food, but it gets heavier.

I go back and forth between light vs. easy, and right now am kind of in the middle. I eat 4 meals per day on the trail, 3 of them cooked, plus fig newtons and summer sausage and other stuff for quick snacks. I've tried a lot of ways over the years, and am always open to new info. Tell me what your menu is that requires only 2-3 cups of water per day, if you don't mind.

As to the drinking, I use 3-4 liters per day. Less gives me problems. If you're drinking less, I wonder how you keep your energy level up. Not knocking, just curious.

As to the drinking, I use 3-4 liters per day. Less gives me problems. If you're drinking less, I wonder how you keep your energy level up. Not knocking, just curious.I drink plenty of water (4-6L per day), but I have heard of folks that get by with less. Not sure how myself.

I'm not a thru-hiker, but for my weekend and weeklong trips, here is what I eat per day on the trail:




Breakfast: 3 breakfast bars (1 when I wake-up and the other two shortly after I hit the trail).
Morning Snack (2): handful of gorp or a bar (cliff, luna)
Lunch: 1 large tortilla covered in peanutbutter/honey mix. Or tuna/mayonnaise
Afternoon Snack (2): gorp, bar
Dinner: Various boil-in-bag meals which require 10-16oz of water
Bedtime Snack: Hard cookies (like ginger snaps)
I'm a sunrise to sunset hiker, I typically eat my dinner on the trail 1-3 hours before I get to camp. I do find that I have a hard time eating the second afternoon snack sometimes. So, I might leave it off on my next trip. I'd rather run out of food than carry too much. Currently, my food weight works out to 20-24oz per day.

Mind you I probably consume far more calories at home than I do on the trail, but I have a hard time eating all that food while drinking 4-6L of water. I'm just too full. I also think I don't digest all that well while on the move.

If I were to ever do a thru-hike, I'm sure my menu would need dramatic changes, but for now I think I have all worked out.

I do exactly the same thing. During the summer, I usually take an alcohol stove, partly because of the lightness, but also because fuel is easier to get (usually). During the off season, I bring a canister stove because it is quick and I tend to boil more than once a day. For example, in the evening, when I want my special chocolate-coffee-whiskey mixture, I want it right away.

With the possibility of getting tagged as a "me too" post, that is what I do as well.

For winter trips, I take my white gas stove. Too much water to boil and snow to melt. I am often cooking or heating water for more than one person.

In the evening, I make my cocoa mix with some kind of liquer. The Godiva white chocolate liquer and cocoa mix made me very popular on quite a few winter trips....

For summer backpacking (which is solo), take the alcohol stove for my boil and cook meals.

Rock/Troll;

Give me edit permissions on this thread (or the first post), so I can make a few changes to the article.

My thoughts on butane/propane stoves/fuel: Once while hiking in the Himalayas, we climbed up to Manasalu base camp (one of the top 14 tallest in the world) and met 2 climbers from the Basque area who had just summited the day before. We talked for a while and found out that they used propane/butane GAZ stoves. (they melted all their water as well as cooking) I started using propane/butane immedietely after.
If i'm going out for less than 3 days, i'll use alcohol. But more than 3, the small SnoPeak fuel canisters last me about 5-7 days depending on how many cups of coffee i drink. i crush the cans when empty to save room and usually (when convenvient) recycle them with soda/beer cans.
I never had a problem puncturing or crushing a used canister with a rock.
I tell how much fuel is left by shaking the can. after some experience, this is easy to figure out.
I ship them USPS ground and never had a problem. I use a pocket rocket with the SnoPeak fuel.
I used to use the Bluet Gaz cartridge that you had to puncture to use and then leave it on the stove. Never had a problem with it but prefer to store the fuel and stove in different places just because that's where i have room in my pack.
I use a windscreen that i made out of one of those cheap, thin, aluminum pie pans (rectangular) that you can buy in all different sizes in supermarkets, I pounded it flat and duct taped the edges, and fold it in half. (or thirds to wrap around the stove/pot) I think it saves a LOT of fuel, especially when simmering and i simmer very very low heat when cooking to save fuel. I also turn off the fuel when i still have about 5 minutes of cooking to go and just let it sit.
If i run out of fuel before i hit town, i simply build fires until my next mail drop.

I'm also a very loyal cannister-stove user.

I've had great luck over the years with the Pocket Rocket and the Giga. I used a Jet Boil system this year and was very pleased with it.

Even Coleman fluid comes in a gallon can that has to be thrown out.


How many cannisters does it take to equal a gallon of Coleman fuel?

Rock/Troll;

Give me edit permissions on this thread (or the first post), so I can make a few changes to the article.

You don't have permission? That isn't right, this forum should give the owner edit permission.

How many cannisters does it take to equal a gallon of Coleman fuel?
=====================================
Don't know the exact answer to that question but it reminded me of a method to determine the "life" of a single cannister of propane/butane. It involves a little bit of preparation though. Prior to using the cannister fuel on a distance hike you consume an entire cannister (of any size), each time making a scratch mark in the paint on the outside of the can. When the cannister is empty you count up the scratch marks and that gives you a pretty close estimate of the "number of burns" that you'll get. Then you can plan your hike accordingly taking into account the actual number of times you'd use the fuel to heat a meal.

'Slogger

You don't have permission? That isn't right, this forum should give the owner edit permission.I don't. Well, at least there isn't an "Edit" button next to the Quote button. I seem to have lost most of my edit abilities after the recent upgrade.

I'll look into it.

I switched from alcohol to canisters and will never look back. On the AT, I hiked about half the time with a guy who used canisters...he was done eating by the time my alcohol stove water boiled. (a slight exageration) He had trouble replacing it only once.

On the CT this summer I was always worrying about running out of fuel on the Trail. In town, I asked an outfitter to take a partially filled one off my hands when buying a new canister...he wouldn't do it. I don't think it's right to throw a partially filled one in the trash, but I guess I could have just drained it and threw it away. BTW, it ended up lasting the entire hike and into my next one. I only use it a supper time.

What I'm doing now is carrying two of the small 3 oz canisters instead of the larger one. I know it weighs more but I'm making up for it by doing a better job of reducing excess food.

"Slogger, you always have such good practical advice...I still owe you for my power stretch top...it has been with me on every mile and has yet to show any signs of wear, wash after wash.

"Slogger, you always have such good practical advice...I still owe you for my power stretch top...it has been with me on every mile and has yet to show any signs of wear, wash after wash.
========================================
You're welcome Skeemer. Wish I could take credit for coming up with that one myself. Just happened to remember it when reading through this thread. By the way ...I've got several of those partial cannisters of propane in the basement. I keed them on hand in case we lose power and have to improvise for cooking and heating out here in wild and wonderful Wyoming.

Oh yeah, and I've had my PowerStretch top about twice as long as you and it's still going strong (odor aside) so you should have plenty more years of warmth and enjoyment coming.

'Slogger

BTW, it ended up lasting the entire hike and into my next one. I only use it a supper time.


Might you tell us how long the hike was?

...cooking once a day, mostly Mountain House, mashed potatoes or Ramen. A month on the JMT, a month on the CT and two weeks on the OHT minus minus the zeros...I'd have to go back and add it all up.

...cooking once a day, mostly Mountain House, mashed potatoes or Ramen. A month on the JMT, a month on the CT and two weeks on the OHT minus minus the zeros...I'd have to go back and add it all up.You got 60+ meals from one canister? Was it one of those giant ones (16oz or 12oz of fuel)? I know many folks get 15+ meals from a single 8oz (the "normal" size) canister. But 60?

You got 60+ meals from one canister? Was it one of those giant ones (16oz or 12oz of fuel)? I know many folks get 15+ meals from a single 8oz (the "normal" size) canister. But 60?
=====================================
When I do use the propane cannisters (small ones) I generally get 8 - 9 days out of them. That includes boiling water for coffee in the morning and a hot dinner at night. If I was REALLY carefull and cut off the stove as soon as there was boilage I suppose I could stretch one out another 3 - 4 days.

'Slogger

When I do use the propane cannisters (small ones) I generally get 8 - 9 days out of them. That includes boiling water for coffee in the morning and a hot dinner at night. If I was REALLY carefull and cut off the stove as soon as there was boilage I suppose I could stretch one out another 3 - 4 days.Your results are typical. I'm trying to understand what sort of voodoo Skeemer is using to make his canister last 60 days.

So it sounds like an ounce per day would be a reasonable expectation.

So it sounds like an ounce per day would be a reasonable expectation.
================================
That's probably about right, but the problem is actually measuring ounces when it's coming out of a sealed cannister. Plus, in the colder temps that propane doesn't vaporize as well right away so there's probably some unintended loss.

'Slogger

================================
That's probably about right, but the problem is actually measuring ounces when it's coming out of a sealed cannister. Plus, in the colder temps that propane doesn't vaporize as well right away so there's probably some unintended loss.

'Slogger
I was thinking in terms of "planning purposes." Meaning that an 8 ounce cannister should last 8 days. So there is no need to actually measure anything.

I recently discovered that cold and elevation both diminish the performance of a canister stove. At 5800' and 22 degrees, my stove would not light. When I returned home (near sea level), I left the stove in the freezer overnight and it fired right up the next morning.

I don't. Well, at least there isn't an "Edit" button next to the Quote button. I seem to have lost most of my edit abilities after the recent upgrade.
tlbj, try again.

I'm gonna quit posting if I have to back up my statements with facts.:o

Let me see here. We were on the JMT for 19 meals (20 days) I was given a free filet mignon dinner at the first seasonal camp by a guy whose companions all paid and bowed out. When we got to Tuolumne Meadows we tented but ate at the lodge (steak again). We ate two evening meals at the Vermillion Valley Resort (the night we arrived and the next zero day). Same with the Muir Trail Ranch plus we packed out the first night's meal. Also, the young fellow of the group cooked my dinner the last night (I was too tired) So what's that? only11 cooked on the JMT, so right there my "month on the JMT" was a big, big overstatement and I do apologize.:o I know you're looking for accurate info when you ask these questions on this forum and I shouldn't be answering off the cuff like that.

The CT was 29 meals (30 days). I'd have to study my journal but let's say with 3 zeros with the evening before...plus I believe I went "cold" by packing out sandwiches or just eating lite at least 3 times and then there was the time we were trail angeled dinner. Add to that the time we ate in another town while passing through one day. Add another day I've probably forgotten and that leaves 17 cooked suppers. We're up to 28

On the OHT it emptied on the last of 8 ending up with a grand total of 35

BTW, when I light the flame I only turn it to the right slightly with the small blue flame under the pot...in other words, I don't turn it up all the way or on "high" for that matter. I noticed the last couple of meals it took forever to boil. I have yet to use a screen of any kind.

The guy I hiked with on the AT, Charlie from Berea (aka Wouded Knee) used a canister. Although we never counted the days exactly I'm sure it was 20 or more and that was with a hot beverage most mornings.

I'm now carrying two small cans (3 oz?) instead of one large.

Sorry about the exageration...but everything else you've heard about me is true...I'm so well endowed that the crotch ripped out of my guide pants by the time I got to Erwin...just ask Miss Janet, she sewed them up for me.:banana

[quote=Skeemer]I'm gonna quit posting if I have to back up my statements with facts.:o
=============================================
Now that sounds like something a politician would say !!

'Slogger

tlbj, try again.Still no edit button.

BTW, when I light the flame I only turn it to the right slightly with the small blue flame under the potModeration is the key to fuel efficiency. With a modest windscreen you could do even better.I'm now carrying two small cans (3 oz?) instead of one large.That would be 4oz. The "large" are 8oz. They use to make a "biggie size" version that was 12oz? 16? But I don't see them anymore.I'm so well endowed that the crotch ripped out of my guide pants by the time I got to Erwin...just ask Miss Janet, she sewed them up for me.:bananaI followed your journal in 2003. So, I'm well aware of the story.

tlbj, try again.

tlbj, try again.Nope. but I feel like you are getting closer.:D

VEry strange. You should have the ability now. Check your settings in your CP to make sure they are on advanced or normal settings for post editing.

I have the Enhanced mode enabled.

Hmmm. Let me confer with Troll on this when he gets back from work. I think I have found the problem, but can't figure out hopw to fix it right now without screwing a few other things up.

Yellow Jacket, great information. Thanks.
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The attached file will print ORM-D labels.
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I noticed that the regulations are contradictory regarding multiple canisters in the same package.
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Section 342.3 c. says, “Multiple primary receptacles are not permitted. Packaging Instruction 2A must be<o =""></o>
followed.”<o =""></o>
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Appendix C, Packaging Instruction 2A says, “Multiple primary receptacles may be securely packed within a single strong outer packaging, provided the total volume of flammable gas does not exceed 33.8 fluid ounces (1 liter) per mailpiece.”<o =""></o>
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Although I cannot use this technique on the trail, at home I use a postal scales to determine the amount of gas the canister still contains. A full MSR IsoPro canister contains 8 ounces of fuel, by weight. The empty canister weighs about 4.7 ounces. Weigh the used canister and prorate the weight of the remaining contents.
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E.g., (7.4 oz. – 4.7 oz.)/8.0 oz = 0.34 of the contents left. A full 8 oz canister weighs about 12.7 ounces.
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I noticed that the MSR IsoPro canister is labeled “8 fl oz/227g.” I think it should be labeled “8 advp oz/227g” or just “8 oz/227g.” I don't think apples are oranges.
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The actual fluid volume is about 13 oz for a 20/80 ratio. The canister volume is about 16 fl oz. Propane in a liquid state is about 0.61 advp oz per fl oz and isobutane is about 0.62.

if u use a canister stove u can simply weigh it on a scale that so many of us have and based on the weight of a full canister u know how much is left

if u use a canister stove u can simply weigh it on a scale that so many of us have and based on the weight of a full canister u know how much is leftTrue. But most don't have access on the trail to a scale. Though, I guess, they are available in most PO.

The Pocket Rocket doesn't work too well on an Optimus canister. The inner tip doesn't push the valve open enough. You can super-tighten it, but since the Pocket Rocket doesn't have a brass thread insert like the other stoves, the thread will eventually strip. Don't ask me how I know this...

Another link to a FAQ about stoves site.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm

Added FAQ link.

I've searched past threads and this article and wondered if anyone has recent info on recycling cannisters. One poster had said that you take your spent cannister to an outfitter for recycling. Is this true? Which outfitters?

I've searched past threads and this article and wondered if anyone has recent info on recycling cannisters. One poster had said that you take your spent cannister to an outfitter for recycling. Is this true? Which outfitters?I'm not aware of any. My guess is they are considered a type of hazardous waste which means disposal requires special handling. Like empty paint cans.

That said...
While I won't put this in the FAQ, I suspect allowing the stove to burn off all of the fuel on a warm day. And then, with the valve open, "church key" (or nail punch) the bottom of the can would do the trick in a safe mannor.

Coleman PowerMax canisters are made of aluminum and can be recycled like regular aluminum can once they are punctured with the "green key" Coleman provides with the stoves.

Dunno about any others.

ed

Coleman PowerMax canisters are made of aluminum and can be recycled like regular aluminum can once they are punctured with the "green key" Coleman provides with the stoves.Great winter stove! Fuel can some times be hard to find.

I don't understand why non-PowerMax canister are made of steel. Espeically given that the PowerMax fuel mix has more propane in it than other canister mixes.

You can float both an empty canister and a full canister in water and mark the water lines. Transfer the full and empty lines to the canister you take to the field. As the canister empties you can measure the remaining fuel level by floating it in water and noting where the water line is relative to the full line and empty lines.

Canister Fuel Can Stand

Colman manufactures a can stand for the XtremeCat™ Catalytic Heater. It is a round base that could also be used on stoves.

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/parts/ProductImage2.asp?product_id=5034-700

5034-1231 Base $2.04

you can find the coleman max fuel at walmart in the camping secton

you can find the coleman max fuel at walmart in the camping sectonNot always. I have checked 3 wal-marts in my area and none of them have it. I bought 4 cans (2 big, 2 small) a couple of years ago when Gander Mtn decided to stop carrying PowerMax stove/fuel. Which is more than enough as I only use it when I need to melt snow for water (maybe once a year).

I still wish someone could explian why PowerMax "canisters" are AL (and quite light) whereas all traditional canisters are steel. Maybe it is an EU thing that made its way to the States? Not sure when/where canisters started... Its too bad as a traditional fuel cansiter would probably be half the weight.

For those that haven't seen a PowerMax "canister" the big size canister looks and feels as light as an empty hair spray can.

Great, post. Lots of useful info. How come you don't mention some of the MSR White gas stoves with refillable canisters? I have a Simmerlite, it's extremely light and efficient and have a 33 oz canister that costs me $.65 to refill with gasoline. This canister will last a long time so I generally only fill it partially depending on trip length. I'm interested in hearing why this type of stove isn't addressed.

Great, post. Lots of useful info. How come you don't mention some of the MSR White gas stoves with refillable canisters? I have a Simmerlite, it's extremely light and efficient and have a 33 oz canister that costs me $.65 to refill with gasoline. This canister will last a long time so I generally only fill it partially depending on trip length. I'm interested in hearing why this type of stove isn't addressed.

Nothing against MSR and other white gas stoves (I own a couple of 'em) but "canister" stoves in the context of this thread, specifically refers to those non-refillable types that burn propane/butane (etc) with IEC threads. The canisters typically have a net fuel weight of 4 oz or 8 oz.

Before these IEC-standard canisters became commonly available, non-refillable "canisters" (eg. "Gaz") were nearly useless except for short hikes, and MSR/white gas stoves ruled the roost for long-distance hiking.

Great, post. Lots of useful info. How come you don't mention some of the MSR White gas stoves with refillable canisters?As mentioned above, a white gas stove =/= canister stove. A canister stove is really a propane (with some other stuff thrown in) stove.

Not always. I have checked 3 wal-marts in my area and none of them have it. I bought 4 cans (2 big, 2 small) a couple of years ago when Gander Mtn decided to stop carrying PowerMax stove/fuel. Which is more than enough as I only use it when I need to melt snow for water (maybe once a year).

I still wish someone could explian why PowerMax "canisters" are AL (and quite light) whereas all traditional canisters are steel. Maybe it is an EU thing that made its way to the States? Not sure when/where canisters started... Its too bad as a traditional fuel cansiter would probably be half the weight.

For those that haven't seen a PowerMax "canister" the big size canister looks and feels as light as an empty hair spray can.


Educated guess is that steel cannisters are easier / cheaper to produce. Coleman may have gone to a aluminum / proprietary cartridge to be an upper tier mountaineering product. Powermax is recognized as being a better product for winter camping, but never made the jump to a product that is in mass demand.

The Doyle Hotel in Duncannon now sells canisters. ($6.50)

PowerMax vs other canisters -

PowerMax is a mix of gases and may not need the strength of a steel can. Just a guess.

ed

PowerMax vs other canisters -
PowerMax is a mix of gases and may not need the strength of a steel can. Just a guess.PowerMax canisters actually have more propane in them than other canisters. And it is the propane that "boils" at such a low temperature.

As mentioned above, I suspect the reason the cans are different is more of a marketing thing for Coleman than anything else. And there is no reason for existing canister manufactures to switch to a new style as the startup cost for a new can material would be prohibitive. And possibly, an AL can in the shape of the current canisters would not be strong enough to support a stove and a full 2-4qt pot. Whereas the PowerMax canisters are not required to support anything.

I just re-read this whole thread, which is now four and a half years old.

There's been a lot of carping talk elsewhere about Whiteblaze, the "good old days", over-Moderation, and other petty complaints.

I just want to say that I thought this article (and the discussion it provoked) is superb, and is a really good example of how positive and helpful this website can be.

I hope this serves as an example to others......instead of taking time and bandwidth to whine about the perceived problems with the website, why not do something constructive and add something positive to the website, like the
post/article that started this thread.

Seems to me THAT's the way to make Whiteblaze better.