View Full Version : Snakes
Gadog430
07-18-2005, 17:55
When Frank Looper and Paula (Hi Frank!) and I went hiking a few weeks ago, we got onto the subject of snakes. He mentioned that he once came upon a Copperhead in the middle of the trail and he took picture of it and stepped over it and went on. Copperheads were not aggressive snakes.
But a friend fo mine at work that lives on a farm mentioned that she had Copperheads out in her pasture and that they were aggressive. she didn't think Rattlesnakes were agressive, and I thought they were.
So, I want to know, and I am deathly afraid of snakes, what would you do if you saw one in the middle of the trail? Which do you think are aggressive? How do you handle the snake issue?
I tell you right up front, they wouldn't have to worry about me dying from a snake bite, the fright would do the job...heheh. :banana
Dawg
Copperheads CAN be very aggressive (especially when shedding) and they don't have any warning mechanism other than sometimes giving off a pecular odor. Also, If you happen upon one, there may be another one very close by. This might be true for any snake but I've found it to be very true with copperheads.
SnakebiteSurvivor
07-18-2005, 18:08
Copperheads and rattlesnakes are not aggressive in the sense that they will chase you (unlike some South American snakes, which do, or so I'm told). But they will stand their ground. If you encounter one in the trail, just go off the trail (on the side in back of the snake) and go around it, keeping your distance. The best defense against snakes is to watch where you step. I speak from experience here, having been bitten once, after stepping on a copperhead's tail by mistake (he took serious offense at that!). Fortunately I was near the trailhead and less than a half hour's drive from an ER....
Copperheads will "vibrate" their tail in leaves. etc to warn you. Water Moccasins, according to many, are the most aggressive snakes we have in the south.
I've had large chicken snakes vibrate their tail in dry leaves and initially thought I had come across a large rattlesnake. White men can jump!
TwoForty
07-18-2005, 20:23
I've stepped on two copperheads and both times they slithered right off the trail. I bet if snakes could talk, they would have apologized! You can hear the leaves rustle sometimes, and they smell like cucumbers.
Out of the two timber rattlers I've encountered, one just layed there on the trail after I came about 3ft from it. It didn't really care about me. He was a young one, but still the size of a copperhead. He didn't rattle. The other one was a huge on in Fontana and he was pissed as hell! Of course, that is becuase my friend picked him up.
Leave them alone and you'll be okay. If you come close, you'll probably be okay. Just don't do anything stupid like pick them up, go looking in downed trees, etc.
If you don't see a snake until you are in striking range, should I jump back or just stop?
What if you hear it, but don't know where it is?
Footslogger
07-18-2005, 22:47
Well ...I've been chased by a couple copperheads in my life so I can attest to their agressiveness.
'Slogger
When Frank Looper and Paula (Hi Frank!) and I went hiking a few weeks ago, we got onto the subject of snakes. He mentioned that he once came upon a Copperhead in the middle of the trail and he took picture of it and stepped over it and went on. Copperheads were not aggressive snakes.
But a friend fo mine at work that lives on a farm mentioned that she had Copperheads out in her pasture and that they were aggressive. she didn't think Rattlesnakes were agressive, and I thought they were.
So, I want to know, and I am deathly afraid of snakes, what would you do if you saw one in the middle of the trail? Which do you think are aggressive? How do you handle the snake issue?
I tell you right up front, they wouldn't have to worry about me dying from a snake bite, the fright would do the job...heheh. :banana
Dawg
Snakes are like all wildlife. They are wonderous to see, but if you keep your distance, you will be perfectly safe. The last thing you want to do is try to get to close. Just observe, keep your distance, and go about your way. You will be fine.
TakeABreak
07-18-2005, 23:40
Haven lived in GA, at Fort Benning for two Years, and in Cullowhee NC. And My parents being from the south here is what little I know.
I was chased by a 6ft water moccasin, in FL., while on army manuevers, I went to walk across a small stream on a log, up came a water moccasin, having never seen one before I relied on the word of two guys with who were from Alabama, not to move as curled up and was obviously very angry from haven been disturbed. As my buddies grab some sticks I froze, when the snake started towards me (we were less than 3ft apart) I turned and went 0 - 3,000 mph in .01 seconds. My buddies caught it and I being the only one with a knife had to cut its head off. I measured it to be my height of 6ft.
Also during my two years in GA, I went fishing on the chatahoochee once, I was told to carry my 12 shotgun in one hand and fishing pole in the other. Anyone who has been there knows that the water moccasins are aggressive and will hang from tree branches and drop into a boat or swim out and try to get in.
While going through PA on the AT, I would be hiking along and it would smell like someone cut the worlds largest cucumber and placed it under my nose, I knew to freeze, which I did, then I would notice grass moving away from me. I had always been told by my mom, dad and Uncles (who live in W. VA, all their lives) that if you smell cucumbers like that, there is 90% chance it is a copperhead a 10% chance it is a rattle snake.
Coming down the north end of bear mountain with two other hikers, I was in lead, the guy behind yelled at me, he said I stepped 1 1/2" from a 1 1/2 - 2 ft timber rattler, that was sunning itself, he said he had never saw one that well camouflaged. He said it went across the trail after i picked up my foot and into the bushes, thinking he was joshin me, I took my hiking staff moved the weeds a little and caught a glimpse of it's tail.
I have heard a lot of stories of similar experiences on the AT, also some saying in PA, timber rattlers sometimes lay in the middle of trail and refuse to move. But everyone I have talked to agree's water moccasin are most aggressive, second are copperhead's third are rattler's.
A snake Expert in the biology dept. at WCU in Cullowhee told me that there not any water moccasins in the appalachian mountains, no one knows for sure exactly why, but they are not above the SC,NC,GA & AL foothills of the East. They like the warmer climates and believed it something to do with elevations or the cold there of.
Sorry about the length of this post.
Also, I would too would like to know the answers to the bottom part of TWOFORTY's post.
sliderule
07-19-2005, 00:34
A snake at WCU in Cullowhee told me that there not any water moccasins in the appalachian mountains, .Well, I guess he would know better than anyone!!! Nothing like going right to the source when you need accurate information.
TakeABreak
07-19-2005, 00:48
I meant a snake expert in the biology department, good I clicked on this post to re-read my statement.
Good catch sliderule
fiddlehead
07-19-2005, 07:03
I've seen snakes on many occasions, but learned from a vetenarian (sp?) friend of mine who raises snakes never to try to pick one up. Almost all of the occasions he had with people who had been snakebit, were people who tried to pick one up, or kill one. He said how surprised most people are when they realize that snakebites are very rare.
Snakes don't like people any more than people like snakes.
dougmeredith
07-19-2005, 08:54
I've seen snakes on many occasions, but learned from a vetenarian (sp?) friend of mine who raises snakes never to try to pick one up.
Some one had to TELL you this? :)
Doug
Gadog430
07-19-2005, 09:07
Thanks for all the great posts.
Trust meeeeeeeeeeeeee, I will not be picking one up. Not on this planet or any other...in any lifetime...for as far ahead as the mind will tell....in any century or world that you can imagine. I won't even go in the snake hosue at the Zoo. I hate snakes that much.
Dawg
The General
07-19-2005, 10:07
Whilst Thru Hiking the AT last year, I came across both the Copperhead and Rattlesnake at one time or another. My closest encounter with a Copperhead was by the sign board in Manssas Gap. I was reading the notices and when I'd finished I turned to walk towards Manassas Gap Shelter and as I put down my foot looked down and there was a large Copperhead stretched out across the short cut grass of the trail. It was a beautiful looking Snake another couple of feet and my opinion may have been different. As it was my only trouble that night was a pesky Racoon who kept me awake most of the night trying to snaffle some of my gear.
I treat snakes with the same healthy respect as my wife, nice to look at but get to close and it's going to cost you. :)
Rain Man
07-19-2005, 10:22
... I being the only one with a knife had to cut its head off.....
You HAD to cut its head off? Is that some military law? Cause I don't think it's an Alabama or Georgia state statute!
Rain Man
.
flyfisher
07-19-2005, 14:04
So, I want to know, and I am deathly afraid of snakes, what would you do if you saw one in the middle of the trail? Which do you think are aggressive? How do you handle the snake issue?
Dawg
I've seen a couple good sized timber rattlers on the AT. One in Georgia and two in Virginia. None of them were much interested in me. I side stepped the one on Frosty Mt in Georgia, pushed the one just south of Rockfish gap off the trail with a long stick, and just watched the one along the Blue Ridge cross the trail.
What I normally do is try to take a picture, then move on. I figure the snake has as much right to be enjoying the woods as I do.
Here is the latest picture:
http://www.imrisk.com/blueridge/P6110133_br.JPG
This snake was about as big around as my wrist and perhaps 4 feet long.
TN_Hiker
07-19-2005, 15:22
Without a doubt, the water moccasins (aka cottonmouths) are the most aggresive we have in TN. I once had a cottonmouth drop from a tree branch into my canoe while paddling on a local river. I made like Jesus and walked on water without even knowing what kind of snake it was.....had to change my shorts after I saw what species it was. It took nearly 30 minutes to get it out of the canoe. All I had to use was my paddle and he was standing his ground (in my boat) and would strike the paddle whenever it became within 3 feet of him. I was amazed at how hard that sucker could hit--left marks on a wooden paddle. Cottonmouths will also clamp down once they have "hit" you---shake around real good. Where as a copperhead or rattler will strike, recoil, and decide if they need to strike again. Never heard of copperheads being that aggressive nor have I heard about the cucumber smell. IMO they smell more like skunk cabbage. I have seen some rattlers stand their ground and others slither away. Regardless of the species, all snakes have my up most respect. I'm with GAdog......don't like them and avoid them as much as I can.
Being cold blooded critters, wouldn't the aggressiveness of a snake also depend on the weather and temperature?
The one timber rattler that I've run into near Springer was very passive but it was just after a cold rain and it appeared that he may have just eaten. I figured this is why he just laid there and didn't move out of the way. (I've seen this behavior in humans after Thanksgiving dinner.)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/5032/sort/1/cat/500/page/1
rainmaker
07-20-2005, 00:21
Having grown up in lower South Carolina I am quite familiar with all of the snakes mentioned in this post. My experience is that copperheads are generally passive and pose little threat to healthy adults. Timber rattlers make a lot of noise and will defend themselves , but would prefer to be left alone. Cottonmouths can be aggressive, I was once chased up a tree by one, but are not found in the mountains. The one snake not mentioned that can really put a hurting on you, is the Eastern Diamondback. A true king or queen of the forest, they can get up to eight feet long. I believe the state and possibly national record was recorded in the Four Holes Swamp area . I suspect that if Diamondbacks were found on the AT, it would be a lonely and quiet place.
littlelaurel59
07-20-2005, 10:07
What I normally do is try to take a picture, then move on. I figure the snake has as much right to be enjoying the woods as I do.
The snake has more right...the woods are its home. We are the visitors. I feel honored to see one (as I feel when seeing other critters), but I am very quick to leave it alone.
Gadog430
07-20-2005, 12:33
LittleLaurel....Umm, I don't know about honored (just kidding).
I would never hesitate to leave him alone though. Not even a second thought.
In fact, he can pretty much have anything of mine that he wants.
Dawg
TN_Hiker
07-20-2005, 12:43
A buddy sent me these two links of a tiny snake hung on some fencing.........don't know where this was taken but I'm sure glad we don't have any snakes like this along the AT.
http://andreas.id.au/images/snake1.jpg
http://andreas.id.au/images/snake2.jpg
A buddy sent me these two links of a tiny snake hung on some fencing.........don't know where this was taken but I'm sure glad we don't have any snakes like this along the AT.
http://andreas.id.au/images/snake1.jpg
http://andreas.id.au/images/snake2.jpg
Wow!! Looks like he just ate. A small calf perhaps? I have a slideshow of a snake eating a kangaroo. Pretty amazing.
Looks like it could be the snake my Mother put out in a tree to sun some years ago. She couldn't understand why it "ran" away. Neighbors still don't know it went missing. Should be that size by now. ...somewhere in Arkansas. Yea, Mother had weird interests!
TwoForty
07-20-2005, 20:15
Where in TN did you see a water moccasin? Their range only extends into a bit of western Tennessee. That is why I do my canoeing in middle Tennessee!
I've had snakes sitting on branches drop into my canoe, but they were not water moccasins. Many will mistake the Natrix for a water moccasin as well. When it bites, it will either hold on, or bite again! They will hold thier ground, but they aren't as fat bodied as a water mocassin,
Without a doubt, the water moccasins (aka cottonmouths) are the most aggresive we have in TN. I once had a cottonmouth drop from a tree branch into my canoe while paddling on a local river. I made like Jesus and walked on water without even knowing what kind of snake it was.....had to change my shorts after I saw what species it was. It took nearly 30 minutes to get it out of the canoe. All I had to use was my paddle and he was standing his ground (in my boat) and would strike the paddle whenever it became within 3 feet of him. I was amazed at how hard that sucker could hit--left marks on a wooden paddle. Cottonmouths will also clamp down once they have "hit" you---shake around real good. Where as a copperhead or rattler will strike, recoil, and decide if they need to strike again. Never heard of copperheads being that aggressive nor have I heard about the cucumber smell. IMO they smell more like skunk cabbage. I have seen some rattlers stand their ground and others slither away. Regardless of the species, all snakes have my up most respect. I'm with GAdog......don't like them and avoid them as much as I can.
[QUOTE=TwoForty]Where in TN... [QUOTE]
Water moccasins are found in West Tn, especially the area around the Mississippi River.
Gadog430
07-21-2005, 11:35
O-M-G on those pics of the snakes hung on the fence/wire.
I would have to move.
Dawg
TN_Hiker
07-21-2005, 11:49
Hey TwoForty...........I live near the Harpeth River (Narrows of the Harpeth) and see cottonmouths on a frequent basis while paddling. I have a few paddling buddies that refuse to paddle the Harpeth due to the snakes. Trust me.....it was a cottonmouth, fairly stout or fat compared to it's length, black skin, white mouth, very triangular head--I had no desire to get close enough to see which way the pupils where turned....lol . I also do a bit of paddling on the Cumberland Plateau and have never seen one up there---maybe it's the higher elevation.
I grew up in Tennessee valley (between Knoxville and Chatt.) and we had cotton mouths in the rivers around my house. I moved to Central Florida in high school and I would see them there on a regular basis. They are easy to ID becouse of the shape of the body and head. I have never heard of one chasing someone until now. I know that the people that I would go out in the woods with in Florida would not worry about them much at all (any snakes) and they were around everywhere. All kinds of snakes and gators.
Footslogger
07-21-2005, 13:32
Lived in Florida years ago and used to take a john boat out in the glades to fish. Never had a cottonmouth chase me but I got a little too close to the bank one day and one did come up over the bow and onto the boat. A little disheartening since the boat was a bit tippy anyway so I couldn't maneuver much to avoid the snake and there were gators in the water. I used an oar to gently flip the snake back in the water and it swam away.
'Slogger
Gadog430
07-21-2005, 15:14
In the early part of my 1st college life, my Dad and I lived on ten acres that abutted the Dawson Forest in North Gerogia. We never once saw a snake, and this ten acres was cleared only for a driveway and for a cabin-site built by my father. The rest was left wild. Also, we canoed frequently down the Etowah River and tubed down the Amicalola and trout fished the Amicalola. Not only that, we stomped around over in the wildlife management area because it was open to us 24/7/265 since our land was right next to it. I am amazed that we never saw a snake now that I think about it.
But that's ok, my dad hates snakes too. He would have been with me when we had to move. lol (I'm kidding).
Dawg
Nightwalker
07-21-2005, 16:17
Not only that, we stomped around over in the wildlife management area because it was open to us 24/7/265 since our land was right next to it.
Why was it closed the other 100 days?
:D
Just Jeff
07-21-2005, 16:33
My 5yr old walked up on a ~3.5' copperhead as it was crawling into our campsite at Jones Gap SP in SC. I told him to be still, and the copperhead turned and ran away (well, he slithered) when he saw us. Unfortunately, he hid in our small firewood pile so I still had to get him out of there.
The snake has more right...the woods are its home. We are the visitors.
Garbage. I belong on this earth as much as it does.
Cottonmouths can be aggressive, I was once chased up a tree by one, but are not found in the mountains.
I saw a ~4' one on the Chatooga River section of the Foothills Trail on the SC/NC border...sections of those mountains are pretty rugged. It was only about 1/3 mile uptrail from the river, though.
He slithered off as soon as we approached, too. That's the fastest I've ever seen an animal move, actually.
Hehe...my neighbor in SC called me Jeff Corwin. Whenever she had a snake in her yard, she'd call me to catch him and put him back in the creek. Well, she wanted me to kill them, but I just released them.
Snakes are kewl :)
TwoForty
07-21-2005, 19:54
Hey TwoForty...........I live near the Harpeth River (Narrows of the Harpeth) and see cottonmouths on a frequent basis while paddling. I have a few paddling buddies that refuse to paddle the Harpeth due to the snakes. Trust me.....it was a cottonmouth, fairly stout or fat compared to it's length, black skin, white mouth, very triangular head--I had no desire to get close enough to see which way the pupils where turned....lol . I also do a bit of paddling on the Cumberland Plateau and have never seen one up there---maybe it's the higher elevation.I've done the Harpeth, the Duck, and several other rivers in the area and I never saw one. I guess I won't be back on the Harpeth anymore. I've done some rivers in the Cumberland as well and I did see a few Nartixs.
I would bet the Buffalo (still in TN) has cottonmouths though.
I never knew they went this far into TN.
In the early part of my 1st college life, my Dad and I lived on ten acres that abutted the Dawson Forest in North Gerogia. We never once saw a snakeI live about 1/10th mile from Dawson Forest. When the house was under construction I once found a 5 foot black snake curled up in the corner of one room. I opened a door and he slithered right out.
When I cut grass I occasionally scare a tiny ring-necked snake or two, but I just pick them up and move them into the woods and out of danger.
I assume there are poisonous snakes around, but haven't seen one yet.
TakeABreak
07-22-2005, 07:14
Rain Man, NO, it was not some kind of military law, but since the water moccasin was 6ft long, haven obviously displayed that it was very aggressive and haven chased me, and not knowing much about water moccasin's, only that they were poisoneous. I agreed with the two guys from alabama and the others that if we let it go somoeone was going to get bit, it was just too big and aggressive, to let us go without retaliating.
Picture if you will, just how scary an angry, aggressive 6ft water moccasin is, not only in length but in diameter, it's head was as big as my fore arm and I am a 6ft, 225lb guy.
dougmeredith
07-22-2005, 09:11
TakeABreak,
I am interested in the logistics of this. Can you give us more detail on how your buddies managed to safely catch and hang onto this snake? We don't have any large or dangerous snakes here, so I don't know much about them.
Doug
Gadog430
07-22-2005, 16:15
Why was it closed the other 100 days?
:D
Frank...GO TO BED!!!!
Dawg
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-29-2005, 02:34
I have experience with all three venemous snakes. Cottonmouths are aggressive, but as others have noted, are not found in the cold mountain water on the AT. Copperheads can be aggressive - especially when shedding and when cold. They tend to behave like other snakes - staying as far from humans as they can and only biting in self-defense - most of the time. Rattlers have always given a signal and moved off when given some space in my experience. I've never smelled any unusual odor around a snake.
TN Hiker, I nearly step on a copperhead up your way a couple of weeks ago (off Hwy 61 just out of Oliver Springs). He was the biggest I'd ever seen.
Tim Rich
07-29-2005, 13:57
I have experience with all three venemous snakes. Cottonmouths are aggressive, but as others have noted, are not found in the cold mountain water on the AT. Copperheads can be aggressive - especially when shedding and when cold. They tend to behave like other snakes - staying as far from humans as they can and only biting in self-defense - most of the time. Rattlers have always given a signal and moved off when given some space in my experience. I've never smelled any unusual odor around a snake.
TN Hiker, I nearly step on a copperhead up your way a couple of weeks ago (off Hwy 61 just out of Oliver Springs). He was the biggest I'd ever seen.
Growing up in Alabama, we had water moccasins, copperheads and rattlers. As a teenager, one of my jobs one year was to keep the five beaver dams torn out on one of the creeks that bordered our land so we could plant the bottom. Every day after school or practice, I'd pull on my boots and head down and start downstream, tearing them out. There was just one lodge, so it wasn't tough if you did it regularly. Miss a few days and you had work to do. One day, I'm about knee deep below a dam, pulling wood out. As I pulled out a limb, a massive cottonmouth followed it out at my feet. I went one way and the snake went the other. I scrambled for my hoe and managed to chop off the last five or six inches of its tail as it disappeared into the pond. Later that evening I went back down and found and killed it and another. Without the end of its tail, it was over six feet long, almost as thick as my fist, and the other much skinnier but still almost five feet.
I've always heard that aggressiveness in U.S. poisonous snakes runs opposite the toxicity of their venom. A water moccasin is less poisonous (but more aggressive) than a copperhead, then rattlers and then coral snakes.
Take Care,
Tim
Gadog430
07-29-2005, 14:41
Ok, I would like to take this thread just a little further. :clap
If you were out in the woods, what would you do if you were bitten? Do you carry a snake bite kit? I was thinking about it, and I really don't know the answer to this question, although I think I do know other basic first aid.
All answers and help appreciated.
Dawg
:banana
justusryans
07-29-2005, 20:14
The only snake that worries me in the area is the Eastern Diamondback Rattler. The others can sure put a hurtin on you, no doubt about it. But... The Diamondback is very large, injects MASSIVE amounts of venom, and has been responsible (along with it's cousin the Western Diamondback) for more deaths in the US than any other species of venomous snake. That being said, The majority of snakebite victems in the US are young, drunk males and the majority of snakebites are to the hand and arm. Anyone else putting this together yet? Point is snakes are like everyone else. You have your old, grumpy, cantankerous, ones who can't get along. And the other end of the spectrum with some who go out of their way to avoid confrontation. So why take chances, leave them alone.
.....A water moccasin is less poisonous (but more aggressive) than a copperhead....Maybe a misprint, but the Copperhead is less poisonous (usually a lot less) than the more aggressive Water Moccasin.
Also, people sometimes call a Copperhead a "Highland Moccasin", there is no such thing. Sometimes they call a Young Water Moccasin a Highland Moccasin, still, no such thing.
Back in high school I had some pretty extensive first-hand experience with herpetology in general, and a decent amount with venomous snakes in particular. So for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
I've never smelled anything when around copperheads, even though I seen them plenty close. I've heard the stories about the smell, though, so perhaps it depends on the specimen's diet or health or whatever other variable.
I've got no experience with Water Moccasins, but a good buddy of mine who has experience with them seems to think the aggressiveness issue is exaggerated. Of course, this guy is crazy, so he free-handles inland Taipans, one of the most dangerous snakes in the world (The snakes, and the guy, both live in Australia... so no worries.). His opinion of aggressiveness may not be the same as what we all think of when using that word.
My only really scary close-encounter with a Timber Rattler was when I was tromping down the Catoctin Mountians, and nearly smooshed a 4 footer underfoot. He was, however, cordial enough to give a rattle--which sounded like a very large beetle jumping into flight... at least to me--and even permitted me to emit a high-pitched girlish squeal, with an accompanying leap backward. So in other words, he let me jump very quickly away (the wrong thing to do) without deciding I needed new air vents in my calf. After, we just stared at each other until I backed away enough for him to leave. He was a beautiful snake, though... an absolutely vibrant series of color markings.
Whoever mentioned that the dangerousness increases dramatically when the snakes are shedding is correct. Their eyes become opaque at that time, and they have a tendency to strike with less hesitation because they're basically blind. This is true for all snakes: I once had a dog-tame ball python that became hell incarnate when shedding. That punk tried to bite my eyelid off once. Luckily I've got tough eyelids.
Lastly, for those with no wish to meet our legless friends, remember to walk heavily. They are very sensitive to vibrations in the ground, and generally make themselves scarce when giant and smelly humans stomp their way.
Long post. Need more wine.
TwoForty
08-03-2005, 22:15
Good post, Felix.
So, if I encounter a Timber Rattler in striking distance and he rattles, should I stop and slowly step back, or should I scream like a little girl and jump back quickly?
Good post, Felix.
So, if I encounter a Timber Rattler in striking distance and he rattles, should I stop and slowly step back, or should I scream like a little girl and jump back quickly?
If you are that close you are probably too late but try to move quickly out of his strike zone, scream if you want, can't hurt.
Just because a snake is 4 foot dosen' mean the danger zone is 4 foot. Snakes do not strike further than half their length. one good step away and you are safe!
bailyrosco
08-04-2005, 08:16
Most of this has been covered already. If you educate yourself about snakes it should take some of the fear away.
TOP TEN SNAKE QUESTIONS
Why shouldn't I kill any snake I find?
Most people are bitten when trying to kill or handle a snake. As a general rule, snakes are just as frightened of you as possibly you are of them. Often they move as quickly as possible in the other direction. Snakes cause no property damage, but seeing a snake or its shed (skin) may frighten some people. Snakes--with their diet of rodents and insects--can actually help protect the plants in your yard and garden.
How many kinds of venomous snakes are in North Carolina?
Six of North Carolina's 37 snake species are venomous. Only three of those are found in the Piedmont area of North Carolina. They are copperheads (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/copperhead.htm), rattlesnakes (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/timberattler.htm), and sometimes cottonmouths (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/cottonmouth.htm). Cottonmouths are typically found east of Gaston County beginning in Union County and east of there to the coast.
Aren't all the patterned snakes dangerous?
Most patterned snakes are not venomous and therefore not dangerous to people or pets. In fact, several of our most beneficial snakes are often killed by people who mistake them for venomous snakes. Many young snakes have patterns that they will lose by adulthood. The patterns vhelp them hide from predators.
How can I tell venomous & nonvenomous snakes apart?
The rattlesnakes, copperhead, and cottonmouth are pit vipers (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/venomousnake.htm). They are characterized by a pit between and slightly below the eye and nostril, long movable fangs, a vertically elliptical "cat's eye" pupil, undivided scales on the underside of the tail, and a large triangular-shaped head that has a small, smooth, shiny cap over the nose. Nonvenomous snakes have round pupils, a large smooth cap over the top of the head past the eyes, divided scales on the underside of the tail, no pits and no long fangs. Unlike venomous snakes, most nonvenomous snakes cannot bite through clothing.
Aren't all snake bites dangerous?
Unlike venomous snakes, most nonvenomous snakes cannot bite through clothing, because non venomous snakes have many tiny teeth. On bare skin, these small teeth will make superficial cuts similar to briar scratches. If you, a child or a pet is bitten by a nonvenomous snake, the bite will look like a horseshoe of tiny scratches. If you or your pet are bitten by any snake that you suspect is venomous, get medical attention immediately. Clean any snake bite area well with soap and water and wipe it with hydrogen peroxide. If only one or two puncture wounds are present, or if you are allergic to snakes, or if you are not sure the snake is nonvenomous, go to a doctor. Many more people die each year from bee stings than from snakebites.
How far can a snake strike?
A snake can only strike with authority within a distance of one- half its body length. So a distance of four feet or more will keep you safe. Give the snake time to go on its way. Remember, most snakes -- even venomous ones -- are not aggressive and would rather avoid a confrontation with people.
How can I avoid snake bites in my yard or while hiking?
Keep grass short. Eliminate weeds and brush. Do not place haqnds or feet into dark places. Stay out of dense vegetation. Watch where you step. Click here (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/avoidsnakebite.htm) for more tips.
Can snakes bite while swimming?
Only if the snake and the human swim into each other. A snake can raise its body 1/4 to 1/3 of its length from the water surface using water tension, but water tension is insufficient for a coiling strike or for jumping into boats. Snakes usually flee humans, both in and out of the water. See watersnakes (http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/gaston/Pests/reptiles/watersnakes.htm).
Will snake repellant keep snakes out of my yard?
Mothballs and many other so-called snake repellants don't work. Snakes can be discouraged from staying in an area by cutting off their food supply and cover. Mow closely around homes and outbuildings, and store firewood and lumber away from residences. Reduce mulch layers around shrubs to about 2 to 3 inches in depth to discourage small animals. Snakes also are often found in or near mulch piles and compost piles.
How can I keep snakes out of my house?
Snakes sometimes enter buildings looking for food. In spring and fall, young black rat snakes are the most frequent "visitors". Nonlethal control measures are the most commonly practiced forms of control. Close cracks and crevices in building exterior walls and floors and around pipes and utility connections with 1/4-inch mesh hardware cloth, mortar or sheet metal. All doors and windows should have tightly fitting screens. Add weatherstripping around exterior door frames.
How far north can one go on the AT, if at all, and reasonably expect not to see poisonous snakes?
How far north can one go on the AT, if at all, and reasonably expect not to see poisonous snakes?
Once you hit Vermont, they are few & far between.
I can definitely attest to the cucumber smell given off by copperheads ... when you smell it, there's absolutely no mistaking it for something else. Last smelled it strongly on the AT through NOC, down by the train tracks. Would be interesting to know if it's given off when they shed, or are angry, or as a warning, etc.I was catching some rays atop Jack's River Falls one day and had been stretched out for a good 30 minutes or so when I lazily turned my head and saw a copperhead staring at me from under a rock, maybe 2 feet away. Lord, I shot up and sprang a good ten feet away, all in one move. I thought my heart was going to pound through my chest! North Georgia, especially in the Cohutta Wilderness, has got to be the "snakiest" place on the face of the earth!
justusryans
08-15-2005, 22:19
I had a interesting encounter with a cottonmouth over the weekend. I was coming home from work Saturday and about 1/2 mile from my house I saw a snake in the road. I didn't think too much about it. I live in a very snakey area. Anyway, as I slowed down the snake started striking at my car. It was the funniest thing I have seen in a long time. Talk about a frustrated snake! Of course I don't think it would have been quite as funny if I hadn't been in my car. :eek:
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-16-2005, 05:32
:eek: re: cottonmouth striking at a car. I knew they were aggressive, but what animal of any sort would attempt to attack an 'animal' the size of an car unless it was cornered?
Cohutta Wilderness, has got to be the "snakiest" place on the face of the earth! This is a very snaky area, but I'm not sure it is more snaky than the southern portion of Big South Fork.
My brother was mountain biking there a few years ago and lost it on a curve. He landed on a sleeping copperhead who was sunning on a rock next to the trail. Thankfully, both he and the snake were so startled they jumped away from each other as far as they could.
justusryans
08-16-2005, 09:11
I live in Northeast North Carolina, LOTS of swamp land around here. Lots of snakes! I'm not going to claim the snakiest place in the good ol US of A but we have our share..... and a couple other folks shares too!
As far as the snake striking at my car..... well he was minding his own business, just sunning himself and along comes this speeding conveyance so he decides to wake up a little cranky! Can't blame a snake for that.
well copperheads are certainly more aggressive than rattlers are, and another factor is that a rattler will warn ya 9 out of 10 times .When I was out in kings caynon the california king snake is what i was concerned about and i did see plenty of rattlers:rolleyes: ,While on the AT in 99 i was hiking with 2nd degree thru maryland and she was listening to her walkman i was hiking behind her and seen the rattler out sunning,she did not see him although i reached gently for her arm and pulled her back about 3ft away it still spooked us :dance ky
Streamweaver
08-16-2005, 12:52
Kyhipo-Why did the Kingsnakes concern you? They are non-venemous constrictors that eat venemous snakes.Or did you mean you were concerned ,as in ,you were there to see them?? Just wondering.
[QUOTE=TakeABreak]Haven lived in GA, at Fort Benning for two Years, and in C
A snake Expert in the biology dept. at WCU in Cullowhee told me that there not any water moccasins in the appalachian mountains, no one knows for sure exactly why, but they are not above the SC,NC,GA & AL foothills of the East. They like the warmer climates and believed it something to do with elevations or the cold there of.
QUOTE]
I question that fact. At Great Falls Park here in Virginia (on the Potomac River) there are VERY aggressive moccassins that hang out by the dam above the old canal locks. They will chase your fishing lures right up to you, they will follow you down the hiking path and they head through the rocks at you. I fear them more than I fear a visit from my mother-in-law....and she's tough!
[QUOTE=Goon]Being cold blooded critters, wouldn't the aggressiveness of a snake also depend on the weather and temperature?
And also, I believe, on the snake itself. I believe there must be crazy snakes just like there are crazy people. I keep hearing about chases and airborne attacks. Maybe these are "rogue snakes". I have spent many, many days and nights in the Green Swamp area in central Florida both canoeing and hiking. In twenty some odd years I've come up on three Eastern Diamondbacks. One of which was never seen, only heard in the tall grass (http://postfiking.com/?go=grass&url1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whiteblaze.net%2Fforum%2Fnew reply.php&pin=37049) bordering the trail. In all these cases I just backed up a few steps and within 10 minutes they crawled away and allowed me to pass. I have lost count of the number of Cottonmouth Moccasins I have encountered. Although some of them used defensive postures including coiling and showing me how they got their namesake, I have never been chased by one or had one drop out of a tree near me. I have heard of these type stories over the years but I have never observed this type of behavior.
T-BACK
well streamweaver I didnt know that!and to think i went to high school in visalia not far from the sequoias and kings canyon,i use to see them all the time while swimming up in the sierras ,thanks for the knowledge :rolleyes: ky
smokymtnsteve
08-16-2005, 21:25
ain't no snakes here in AK!
not even gardner snakes:cool: ky
halibut15
08-16-2005, 22:33
A lot of the posters on here are right, the water moccassin (cottonmouth) doesn't occur in the mtns. normally, at least in the Southern Mountains. Many people who swear to have seen a cottonmouth in the mountains have most likely run into a water snake, which are all non-venomous. Also, the copperhead and timber rattler are both very non-aggressive, the exception being when they are stepped on, picked up, etc., of course. The thing many people don't know is that even a bite from these snakes doesn't guarantee certain death. Most venomous snakes need their venom to kill their prey, and knowing a human is a little too large to eat and a bite to a human is defensive, these snakes will conserve their venom for food rather than waste it on self-defense when a dry bite will do. Young snakes, however, may not have control over whether or not they can release their venom. Also, different people react differently to venom (i.e. body size, age, overall health, etc.), so an amount that could kill one person may only make one person ill.
The bottom line of this whole forum: Nature is unpredictable. Plan ahead, be careful, don't do anything stupid, and you'll be fine.
silvereagle
08-21-2005, 21:12
I was wondering if anyone had ever heard of a snake trying to get inside a backpack. Recently on my hike through the Smokey's, we left our backpacks on the trail below Shuckstack tower. When we returned a small timber rattler was exiting my friends backpack. We stopped when we heard the rattle, then he just came right on out of one of the pockets. All I can think about is what would have happened if my friend put that pack on. (goosebumps):eek:
justusryans
08-21-2005, 21:38
I was wondering if anyone had ever heard of a snake trying to get inside a backpack. Recently on my hike through the Smokey's, we left our backpacks on the trail below Shuckstack tower. When we returned a small timber rattler was exiting my friends backpack. We stopped when we heard the rattle, then he just came right on out of one of the pockets. All I can think about is what would have happened if my friend put that pack on. (goosebumps):eek:
Man, that would suck more than anything has ever sucked before! Talk about a colen clencher!:dance
A buddy sent me these two links of a tiny snake hung on some fencing.........don't know where this was taken but I'm sure glad we don't have any snakes like this along the AT.
http://andreas.id.au/images/snake1.jpg
http://andreas.id.au/images/snake2.jpgI saw this on Snopes http://snopes.com/photos/animals/fencesnake.asp - apparently its real - but in Africa. No worries. lol
I am starting out hiking a section (CT) of the AT in the spring for my first time backpacking. I am concerned about snakes and found a great site to educate myself. They have awesome real photos and describe them all well. Here tis - http://www.umass.edu/nrec/snake_pit/index.html (http://www.umass.edu/nrec/snake_pit/index.html) -part of UMass
Nightwalker
09-15-2005, 13:19
I saw this on Snopes http://snopes.com/photos/animals/fencesnake.asp - apparently its real - but in Africa. No worries. lol
After seeing the photos, I can agree with this quote from the Snopes article: "A python's bite is not poisonous but would be very painful."
Streamweaver
09-19-2005, 13:11
Ive been bit by 3 pythons over the years ,they were small but still gave pretty nasty bites!!! Pythons have many needle sharp teeth that are curved like fish hooks. Once they bite it can be pretty hard for them to remove their teeth from your flesh!! I even had an 8 foot Red tail Boa that went for a rat and missed and ended up sinking his teeth into his own flesh.LOL It took him almost a half hour to get unhooked!
sliderule
09-19-2005, 14:20
Recently on my hike through the Smokey's, we left our backpacks on the trail below Shuckstack tower. When we returned a small timber rattler was exiting my friends backpack. There are about 1800 reasons not to leave your pack unattended in the Smokies. They're furry, black, have sharp claws and in incredible sense of smell. And they will tear your pack to shreds.
Gadog430
09-19-2005, 16:11
Ive been bit by 3 pythons over the years ,they were small but still gave pretty nasty bites!!! Pythons have many needle sharp teeth that are curved like fish hooks. Once they bite it can be pretty hard for them to remove their teeth from your flesh!! I even had an 8 foot Red tail Boa that went for a rat and missed and ended up sinking his teeth into his own flesh.LOL It took him almost a half hour to get unhooked!With all due respect to teh snake, I don't really have any pity for that 1/2 hour that he spent unhooking himself. That is sufficient time for me to be far far away. No pity at all. Sorry. lol
Dawg
In 2000 a group of hikers arriving at Tom Floyd Wayside just before Front Royal Virginia were greeted with both a journal entry and a hand letterd sign, "WARNING, A RATTLESNAKE IS LIVING UNDER THIS SHELTER". Pat from Maine moved on, she was in a hurry anyway. Green found a tentsite about 100 yards away. Burley and Gnarley set up their tent in the shelter and zipped the door. Blue and I just threw our pads on the floor and laid out our sleeping bags. We figured with a rattlesnake we would have at least one shelter we could sleep in without mice. I slept well that night, no mice but I did use my headlamp when I went out to pee. It was the 4th of July and the fireworks booming from Front Royal were more of a distraction than the snake.
:p ;) ;) :p :p :sun :jump
Streamweaver
09-20-2005, 12:35
With all due respect to teh snake, I don't really have any pity for that 1/2 hour that he spent unhooking himself. That is sufficient time for me to be far far away. No pity at all. Sorry. lol
Dawg
LOL You know ,that boa was the most gentle,even tempered snake Ive ever handled!! Even so,I left him well alone for the rest of the day!!!LOL he was one cranky critter after biting hisself!!! :p