Need better warnings re: Blood Mountain bear situation

Section hiked Neels Gap to Woody Gap SOBO on Sunday. I saw plenty of signs saying what was closed to camping without a bear canister -- the 5 miles of trail from Jerrard Gap to Neels Gap. What I did not see is an explanation of that particular trail section, that is, the most difficult 5 mile stretch of trail to date for a NOBO thru-hiker. Furthermore, the only official place to camp prior to the bear area is Lance Creek, a couple of miles before the bear area. While 7-8 miles does not seem very long, I talked to a number of thrus this weekend that were averaging no more than 6 miles per day.

A lot more information should be given, as early as possible, so that the thrus can plan accordingly. Detailed water situation, trail difficulty (long sustained uphill followed by steep rocky downhill), last chance to camp without canister, at the very least.

Ideally though, the thrus should have a way to camp on Blood Mountain. Maybe someone can put in a bear box, or provide loaner (or rental) bear canisters? Trail magic at Jerrard Gap?

BTW: Trail was in great shape from Unicoi Gap to Woody Gap.

Where's the popcorn. This will be interesting...:)

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Originally Posted by daddytwosticks

Where's the popcorn. This will be interesting...:)

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For breakfast...indeed.Grits:)

So exactly what trail guide are you using?

what's a thru?

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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

what's a thru?

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I believe the term was "Thrus"a thrus is a small little bird that is indigenous to Iceland,Tecivte to be exact.Or perhaps it's a plural for of get the heck out of our way,were hiking to Katadin.........maybe.

so these Thrus are special then?

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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

so these Three are special then?

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No exactly,Lets just say...not that uncommon.

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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

so these Thrus are special then?

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I am fluent in sarcasm!

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Originally Posted by joshua's dad

Section hiked Neels Gap to Woody Gap SOBO on Sunday. I saw plenty of signs saying what was closed to camping without a bear canister -- the 5 miles of trail from Jerrard Gap to Neels Gap. What I did not see is an explanation of that particular trail section, that is, the most difficult 5 mile stretch of trail to date for a NOBO thru-hiker. Furthermore, the only official place to camp prior to the bear area is Lance Creek, a couple of miles before the bear area. While 7-8 miles does not seem very long, I talked to a number of through this weekend that were averaging no more than 6 miles per day.

A lot more information should be given, as early as possible, so that the trash can plan accordingly. Detailed water situation, trail difficulty (long sustained uphill followed by steep rocky downhill), last chance to camp without canister, at the very least.

Ideally though, the thrus should have a way to camp on Blood Mountain. Maybe someone can put in a bear box, or provide loaner (or rental) bear canisters? Trail magic at Jerrard Gap?

BTW: Trail was in great shape from Unicoi Gap to Woody Gap.

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Much of the information your asking for can adequately be provided in the trail registers for hikers ,by hikers.kick it off

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Originally Posted by SouthMark

I am fluent in sarcasm!

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Elf doles it for free.Shame to throw away a perfectly good market.

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Originally Posted by joshuasdad

Trail magic at Jerrard Gap?

BTW: Trail was in great shape from Unicoi Gap to Woody Gap.

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Last week there was trail Magic at Unicoi, Indian Grave and Tray Mnt. Gaps. Big Magic. No wonder thrus are well fed. We're talkin' 3 feeds in 5 miles.

OK, sarcasm aside (and I DID expect it), there are a lot of NOBOs out there this season that are in way over their head. I saw a number of NOBOs near Jerrard Gap who were considering pushing to Neels Gap, which would be extending themselves considerably to do so. One (smartly) asked me about the water situation, even though it looked like they should stop then (I did see him the next day on a short AM hike SOBO from Hogpen Gap to Neels, so I guess I was wrong about him). Another was thinking that he could share a bear canister with someone if he could not make it to Neels (he had already hiked about 10 miles) -- I did not see him the next morning. I saw one exhausted European (German, probably) wearing what looked like 5 pound (each) army boots and carrying what looked to be a 70 pound pack heading up a not-so-steep hill at say, 0.4 miles per hour...you should get the picture.

It has been exceptionally easy on the trail in the past week (let alone, the past month), so it was no big deal for someone in over their head to just stop in place and camp when exhausted. If you are carrying 70 pounds prior to Neels Gap (and the pack shakedown), when you stop, you generally can do pretty well. But if you cannot stop because of an imposed condition AND it is 70+ degrees out there AND you didn't bring enough water AND you are not experienced at going downhill with a heavy pack AND you are doing your first 6+ mile day...that is a recipe for a number of zero-days at Neels (or the nearby hospital).

Just saying that if you are into that trail magic thing, this might be a place for it. Of course, you don't want to spoil the NOBOs too much, but this looked like a special situation. Or, the local trail club, ATC, etc. could sponsor a bear box. That's it.

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Originally Posted by John B

So exactly what trail guide are you using?

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Is there a tougher part of the trail NOBO from Springer to Neels? I sure did not see it. After Neels, sure, there are more difficult parts. Tray Mtn. looks pretty tough on paper for the uninitiated (and probably a very appreciated place for trail magic). Blue Mountain is a long slog as well NOBO. Regardless, all of it seems pretty easy compared to what awaits them up north (Priest, Three Ridges, Killington Peak, Smokies, NH/ME, etc.)

All good points joshuasdad. I for one, thank you for your post.

jarrad gap to neel gap would hardly be called "difficult"

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Originally Posted by Gray Blazer

Last week there was trail Magic at Unicoi, Indian Grave and Tray Mnt. Gaps. Big Magic. No wonder thrus are well fed. We're talkin' 3 feeds in 5 miles.

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I was thinking more information + water (for those who really need it) + possibly loaner bear canisters (to be dropped off at Walasi-Yi). FYI: Need to hike uphill 1 mile to get to Jerrard Gap, so not the best place for a feed (if there is any good place for that...).

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Originally Posted by joshuasdad

Is there a tougher part of the trail NOBO from Springer to Neels? I sure did not see it. After Neels, sure, there are more difficult parts. Tray Mtn. looks pretty tough on paper for the uninitiated (and probably a very appreciated place for trail magic). Blue Mountain is a long slog as well NOBO. Regardless, all of it seems pretty easy compared to what awaits them up north (Priest, Three Ridges, Killington Peak, Smokies, NH/ME, etc.)

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I don't think Blood is really that bad. I would take it any day over the stretch from Hawk to Gooch, those PUDS just suck it out of me. Blood just looks big on a map, but in reality it is very manageable with a NOBO ascent.

I guess if you are carrying a 70 pound pack that has been beating you up for several days then Blood probably looks like the devil incarnate, but if you are in that situation then every step is misery anyway.

I did this section in Feb, and we simply stopped at Lance Creek, and the next day went over Blood mtn and down to Neels Gap. The best Mtn Dew I ever had was at Mtn Crossings! Seriously, going up Blood Mtn was not that bad, and it didn't live up to it's reputation. Just a long steady climb. However, going down was tough. I had always heard how hard it was, but I never knew that they meant the going down part.

Joshuasdad, you hiked Blood going SOBO. Its my experience that climbing Blood SOBO is more strenuous that NOBO.

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Originally Posted by max patch

Joshuasdad, you hiked Blood going SOBO. Its my experience that climbing Blood SOBO is more strenuous that NOBO.

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Going NOBO is no big deal. Going SOBO would get my attention.

With regards to the regulated stretch: If something about it surprises a hiker, they have not been paying attention and deserve what they get.

It is the steep descent after a long day which gets my attention (and whack-a-mole's). I thought Blood to Woody SOBO was exceptionally easy: soft, smooth, well-graded dirt trails except for the initial 1300 ft ascent. Got a late start (Easter Sunday), so it was relatively hot, 75 F or so. If I were heading the other way, and carrying a heavy pack, and was new to this hiking thing, I would bomb down Blood Mtn to get to Walasi-Yi to get that Klondike bar before closing. And I would awake the next morning with a knee injury (or worse, if I fell on that descent). Of course, after several hundred miles on the trail I would not do that, but thse NOBOs have 30 miles of AT experience at that point.

An unprepared hiker isn't very likely to be helped by even more information being available.

Its 5 miles. Sunrise is at 7; sunset at 8. 13 hours of daylite.

And if someone can't make that kind of mileage then they can always go off trail for 1/4 mile and camp legally.

This is really a non issue.

There is plenty of info for hikers on this issue or any section on the AT. What ever happened to being self sufficent, engaging the brain and being responsible for one's self?

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Originally Posted by joshua's dad

It is the steep descent after a long day which gets my attention (and whack-a-mole's). I thought Blood to Woody SOBO was exceptionally easy: soft, smooth, well-graded dirt trails except for the initial 1300 ft ascent. Got a late start (Easter Sunday), so it was relatively hot, 75 F or so. If I were heading the other way, and carrying a heavy pack, and was new to this hiking thing, I would bomb down Blood Mtn to get to Walasi-Yi to get that Klondike bar before closing. And I would awake the next morning with a knee injury (or worse, if I fell on that descent). Of course, after several hundred miles on the trail I would not do that, but these NOBLEs have 30 miles of AT experience at that point.

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JD,I know that your comments were born out of concern for hikers only,and like AWOL's guide book it would be helpful to have the next three stops laid out.But for me ,I don't follow or think about man made geographical lines(state lines)when hiking,and bears don't either,they don't care that the sign says "The Line is Here".I think more along the terms of peaks,valleys,upland,piedmont.When hiking the trails a little adversity is a character builder IMO.But hey,I hear what your saying....I would like it to revert back to this.No more signs,no more books,no more town folks dirty looks,no more shelters,and no more feeds,all we need is the Mountains,sky and the trees.:)Have a great hike,wishing you well.

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Originally Posted by max patch

Its 5 miles. Sunrise is at 7; sunset at 8. 13 hours of daylite.

And if someone can't make that kind of mileage then they can always go off trail for 1/4 mile and camp legally.

This is really a non issue.

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It is actually 7+ from Lance Creek. You cannot camp in Jerrard (a fact that was hand written onto the provided maps), and exclusion zone appears to be more than a quarter mile from trail. You can stealth camp, though likely not too comfortably in the rolling hills between Lance Creek and Jerrard, which would be the smart thing to do for the low mileage folks (IF they knew of this possibility).

Maybe a nonissue for most, but with proper information. Plus, engaging the brain when tired on Blood would entail setting up camp which...oh, can't do that... 5-7 miles may be easy for us, but perhaps not for the 70 plus seniors, and the 70 lb packers.

Rocketsocks +1. Get rid of those signs, and no need for handholding these new NOBOs. They can unpack their camp chair, axe, trowel, cot, etc and get along just fine until they get to Neels and get properly instructed...

first, if the alleged nbob "thrus" are only averaging 6 miles per day, they definitely will not be a "THRU" for long, they will be lucky to make it to Harpers Ferry by October.

a lot more information should be given??? perhaps he is correct, the AT should be reconfigured with Disney World type "guides", snack bars, water fountains, etc, and why can't the ATC install escalators on those darn hills?? it's too hard!! and there are too many rocks on the trail darn it!!! get those GA appalachian trail work crews out of the Dunkin Donut shops and out on the trail removing all those darn rocks!!

no trail magic at Jerrard Gap??? I never saw squat from Amicalola Falls to Hiawassee, no church group cookouts, no hamburgers, no ice cold sodas, NOTHING, it wasn't fair!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

the trail was in great shape from Unicoi to Woody???? but that section includes the section you were criticizing at Lance Creek and Jerrard Gap, so which is it?

why not reroute the trail thru Helen, GA where the hikers can bed down at the Swiss chalets? why not have full time masseusses at the shelters awaiting every "thru" with a relaxing massage, maybe a happy finish?? :)

it's just not right ! its too hard!!

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Originally Posted by Praha4

first, if the alleged nbob "thrus" are only averaging 6 miles per day, they definitely will not be a "THRU" for long, they will be lucky to make it to Harpers Ferry by October.

a lot more information should be given??? perhaps he is correct, the AT should be reconfigured with Disney World type "guides", snack bars, water fountains, etc, and why can't the ATC install escalators on those darn hills?? it's too hard!! and there are too many rocks on the trail darn it!!! get those GA appalachian trail work crews out of the Dunkin Donut shops and out on the trail removing all those darn rocks!!

no trail magic at Jerrard Gap??? I never saw squat from Amicalola Falls to Hiawassee, no church group cookouts, no hamburgers, no ice cold sodas, NOTHING, it wasn't fair!!!!!! BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

the trail was in great shape from Unicoi to Woody???? but that section includes the section you were criticizing at Lance Creek and Jerrard Gap, so which is it?

why not reroute the trail thru Helen, GA where the hikers can bed down at the Swiss chalets? why not have full time masseusses at the shelters awaiting every "thru" with a relaxing massage, maybe a happy finish?? :)

it's just not right ! its too hard!!

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Hey Praha4, why don't you just quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel? ;)

todays hikers don't know what real trail magic is. feeds ain't magic

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Originally Posted by Buffalo Skipper

Hey Praha 4, why don't you just quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel? ;)

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Nothing like thee ole double entendre;)

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Originally Posted by joshuasdad

5-7 miles may be easy for us, but perhaps not for the 70 plus seniors, and the 70 lb packers.

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With a 70# pack they would never even notice the 2# bear can......

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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

todays hikers don't know what real trail magic is. feeds ain't magic

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Yep, true trail magic is when you desperately need help of some kind and it comes out of no where just when you need it the most. Free food is just that - free food and getting that is mostly a matter of good timing.

Escalators and massuesses really do sound like great ideas!!!

Wow...much angst against those NOBOs. And for me, A SECTION HIKER, the trail was great...could not be any better.

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Originally Posted by joshuasdad

Wow...much angst against those NOBOs. And for me, A SECTION HIKER, the trail was great...could not be any better.

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Naw,Nary a one of us is any better.

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Originally Posted by joshuasdad

Wow...much angst against those NOBOs...

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There's a pretty good reason for that, but I'll leave it at that.

BTW, I agree with max patch, just go off the trail over 1/4 mile and all is good.

I guess the regulation does state a quarter mile, the provided map makes the area look bigger than that. Wish I could make it to a trail register...but at my dayjob now...

I can just see all these newbs wandering a 1/4 mile off the trail to camp. SAR would be VERY busy......