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looking for opinions on a silnylon rain jacket i saw one on dancing lite's site. my feeling is that most of the time i soak my jacket from the inside out anyway. i know silnylon wont breathe but is there other reasons people are'nt using them it seems to me the wt. would be worth a little extra sweat.
As one who started hiking before there was goretex or any other WP/breathable fabric, I'll give my opinion. I've used coated nylon raingear for years - silnylon would be basically the same only lighter and maybe less durable. Nonbreathable raingear works - it keeps rain and wind off of you, keeping you warm. Whether it keeps you totally dry depends on how much you sweat inside. You just learn to wear minimal clothing underneath to minimize sweating and open the zipper when you are too hot. You may find it more comfortable to just hike in the rain and get wet under some circumstances, but then you have dry clothes in your pack and raingear to keep them dry after you get to camp. When hiking in a cold rain wearing nonbreathable raingear, the cold rainwater doesn't touch you. The wetness you get inside is warm sweat, which stays warm and steamy because it can't evaporate. Thus you are warm and wet, not cold, wet and chilled to the bone like you'd be without raingear. How much more comfortable you'd be in breathable rainwear could be debated - but I suspect that in many circumstances there's not much difference. Waterproof raingear can also double as a vapor barrier for use inside the sleeping bag.
Considering how rarely you really need rainwear I would say go for the silnylon idea, but realize that you will need to add some big ass pit-zips or you will be dripping from your own sweat. Breathable rainwear rarely breathes in east coast humidity, hence why manufacturers put ventilated pockets and pit-zips in Gore-Tex clothing. I like the idea!
A sil-nylon poncho might be a decent idea since it has better air circulation than a parka. Of course if you get alot of heavy rain with high winds than I think the rain suit is better. Streamweaver
I have the L.L. Bean Gore-Tex Pac-Lite Parka Shell and Pant Shell (I only use my parka shell now). Each weigh about a pound (Jacket is 18oz though), and breathe about as good as 1/2" thick rubber rainwear. They have various zips (pit, chest, legs, etc), but the same gear in sil-nylon would be lighter and could also incorporate these same zips (with a littel re-inforcement). I'm going to try and make a sil-nylon jacket in a couple months (when I'm done making my down quilt). Cut it extra-long to cover your butt, and rain-pants really aren't even needed. A 6oz Shell would cut 12oz out of my pack, and probably be more comfortable to wear due to it's lighter-weight!
A couple ideas you might consider with silnylon rainwear. If you cut it long to cover your butt and then wear a packbelt over it, you get no top-to-bottom ventillation (hence chest and pit zips don't help much). Think about cutting a slot on each side to run your hipbelt through. You could have long slits from the bottom to the waist with velcro to hold the bottom edge together. Or you could go with a short jacket and make a "rain skirt" to cover your butt and rain chaps to cover your legs.
I don't use a hipbelt. So an x-tra long shell isn't a problem for me.
Zippers are heavy and can break, and need waterproof flaps covering them anyways. Waterproof zippers are even more heavy, and require alot of tension to open.
I'm going to use a pull-over type shell. Eliminates places that can leak, and cuts weight. If you walk with your rain-wear open you don't need it on (or have bad back posture if you can without getting wet). The arm-pits will be no-see-um, and always open (I think this is an original idea, if not, I will be so depressed!). This jacket isn't meant for warmth, it's meant for rain protection. Wind protection is via my fleece Gore-Windstopper Jacket (heaviest piece of clothing), which can be worn beneath if so desired in winter conditions.
I hope my clothing will be as follows for 6 day spurs. I have everything but the Sil-Nylon Shell. I currently use a Gore Pac-Lite Shell which sucks (as stated above).
Convertible synthetic pants w/Mesh Liner. (Worn) ?oz
Lightweight synthetic long-sleeve shirt. (Worn) ?oz
OR Rocky Mountain Low Gaiters. (Worn) 3oz.
3 pairs Medium weight Smart-Wools. (1 Worn, 2 in Pack) 4oz.
Lightweight leather palm mesh back fingerless gloves. (Worn) 1oz
Fleece Gore Windstopper Jacket. (Pack) Need a Lighter Version.
Sil-Nylon Parka Shell. (Pack) 6oz.
TNF Gore-Windstopper High-Point Hat. (Pack) 3oz.
Black Diamond Power-Stretch Gloves. (Pack) 1.5oz.
OR Pro-Modular Gloves. (Pack) 4oz.
Silk-Skins Balaclava. (Pack) 1/2oz.
I also carry two bandanas, and I'm going to switch to heavy duty trailrunners, down-sizing from Vasque Clarion GTX Boots.
My system above keeps me comfortable from 0*F-105*F. Anything over 105*F and I'll be dying for AC. Anything below 0*F and my legs start getting cold. In which case I'll camp.
Another thing I thought would be cool is sil-nylon 800fill down coats that have draft-tubed pit-zips. This would be an awesome addition to a 4 season pack that is going somewhere real cold. Throw in a fleece balaclava and pant-liner, and I'll be set to 40 below :)
Raginghamster, for down to 0 deg. do you just have your convertible pants, or am I missing something?
Lightweight rain pants are a great multi-use item, useful for extra warmth, a windshell, as rainpants, and as "wear while you're doing laundry pants."
silnyl... sweat...?
go to o2rainwear and check out the yellow set. it is made of 3m propore which breathes better than gore. the jacket wgts 5.5 oz and the pant wgt 5 oz . leave the propore stuff sacks home or take them to use as mittens ( which is what i do). used this from springer to pearisburg va (625) in very wet spring 03.only one small separation (repaired w/2"piece of ductape). found that if i slow my pace for the last mile of the day i can hike my polypro t-shirt dry under this jacket. [B]THIS STUFF IS WAY TO GOOD TO BE PASSED UP.... and it is cheap....approx $27 a jacket and $20 pants. there is a blue set, reg waist is new, but the hood and description make it appear heavier and it costs about $20 more. this year they added camo....same deal cost more, weights more.... yellow is a no brainer......must admit wearing yellow pants on laundry day in trail towns takes thick skin....get thicker skin and go lighter.... ps this is 2-3 oz lighter than frogtoggs and cheaper.
I would still like to make a silnylon jacket with pitzips, and still feel the same about "waterproof/breatheable" shells (that under 99% of circumstances they work like crap). I thought the "Packa" was a great idea for 3-season use, but in windy conditions the flapping of the extra material would drive me nuts.
I still use my Ultralight poncho under most below tree-line 3 season circumstances, but breakout the 'ole Gore-Tex Pac-Lite jacket in the Winter and when hiking above tree-line. I still haven't touched that XCR Jacket I impulse bought when it was on sale. I definetly agree with the old wisdom that your outter shell should be just that, a shell. My paclite jacket is simply (from the outside in) ripstop nylon with a DWR finish, the gore-tex pac-lite membrane, and then instead of another layer of nylon, it uses miniature dimples that hold the jacket off you and prevent abrading of the membrane. I've used it a few years and havent any trouble with the gore-tex. I do have to recoat the DWR though, as the nylon soaks up water now. That XCR shell has all kinds of pockets, mesh linings, loops, bells, whistles, etc. I think simplicity is great, and a silnylon jacket would take it one step further.
Just my $0.02
EDIT:
On my list of clothes above, that was for 3 season use with occassional extremes from 0*F - 100*F. I have made a few changes to it. I now use a simple Polartec 300 series fleece jacket instead of the Windstopper jacket (p300 drys a helluva lot faster), carry two pairs of smartwools instead of three, and use p300 mittens with gore-tex mitten shells instead of the glove setup. I only carry polypropylene pants in the winter, and the same goes for the pant shells.
How about making rain gear in Tyvek #14 (Kite Tyvek)? Supposed to be waterproof and let steam through. Weight is approx 1.2 oz/sq yd I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_pan
I agree with this post, although I have the blue suit. It breathes better than any other rain suit that I have ever had. The blue is super nice, because it was a good storm flap on the front zipper that secures with buttons, making it a better option for really bad weather. The hood is a little shallow, but we have visors and this works great with the shallow hood. The yellow are great for the minimalist who wants to save a few extra ounces.
For me, rain gear is more about keeping warm than keeping dry. You need something that is going to trap enough heat and not let the wind blow it away. There is some advantage to also staying at least somewhat dry, since when you start to cool down, if you are soaking wet, then you will start to get chilled much faster. That's why the breathable "paper suits" are the perfect choice for me. They let as much sweat as possible out, they don't let cold drafts or rain in (too much), and the do a good job of keeping me warm.
I think I wore my rainsuits more in camp on cold mornings than while hiking in the rain. I personally think it is foolish not to bring raingear, especially during the spring, and through the whites. But each person is different.
Gravity Man
I agree with pretty well everthing posted by DebW on this subject. I own the Dancing Light rain jacket as well as rain pants. My jacket has pit zips which help to reduce the sweat factor. Unless I am experiencing a very cold rain, I do not wear silnylon rain gear while back packing, for the same reasons I no longer use heavy, expensive Gortex gear. I sweat too much. I should point out I don't get any wetter with the silnylon gear than I do with my WB kit. Where silnylon rain gear really shines is around a cold wet campsite, or as a simple windproof barrier. Generally I use an ID silnylon poncho ( which doubles as pack cover and emergency shelter) to keep dry when I'm carrying a load, and shift into the raingear when I'm chilling (literally) at my campsite.Quote:
Originally Posted by jigsaw
Cheers,
PKH
Take a look at "Frog Toggs" in addition to considering a silnylon rain suit. I had a silnylon packcover on this years thru-hike and found that it didn't always keep my pack dry. Besides that ...silnylon is a bit "clingy" on damp skin. I borrowed a silnylon parka for a week and found that it was pretty warm. Also, and this might have just been the "cut" of this particular rain parka, I kept tripping on the front seam of the thing. It was too long for me.
I bought the Frog Toggs in Hot Springs and it turned out to be one of my better investments on the trail. They don't weigh much either. In fact, you really don't need the pants much once the weather warms up.
Check out the Packa (www.thepacka.com). Its a rain garment made from Silnylon but the vents acutally work. Cedar Tree
Jigsaw Wrote: looking for opinions on a silnylon rain jacket i saw one on dancing lite's site. my feeling is that most of the time i soak my jacket from the inside out anyway. i know silnylon wont breathe but is there other reasons people are'nt using them it seems to me the wt. would be worth a little extra sweat.
I disagree with using non-breathable materials in cold weather.
Breathability issues can be divided into two cases: below 32F and above. I completely agree that above 32F, whether a material will actually be useful is problematic. Hot sweaty hiker, warm rain, hot day, little moisture transport. But if you are below 32, and it’s snowing or sleeting, moisture will transfer across breathable materials. If you are experienced, you will be sweating as little as possible by regulating your clothing. But steep climbs may make this unavoidable. With a breathable material, body heat will transfer the moisture out when activity slows. Breathable materials are at their best in the coldest conditions. If you have a non-breathable material sweat will have a very difficult time getting out. As some have mentioned, they have been able to dry a shirt by slowing down some, a wise course of action.
Personally, I use my shell top and pants as a layer in cold temps while hiking. This means they need to be tough. Falling in icy conditions, on hard snow and ice, can easily rip weak materials. An intact shell is critically important. I am very reluctant to bring my Frogg Toggs for these reasons on winter hikes (even to hike in them in warmer conditions).
With breathable materials, I have the added safety of having relatively dry hiking clothes available as emergency clothing, should I remember to slow down some before reaching camp.
For temps upwards of 32, I think the main concern would simply be durability. I hike fairly warm and will only put on my shell if it's raining and I am also too cold. I generally don't get much moisture transfer because as soon as I'm into a long sleeve (at these temps) I'm hot enough to start sweating and end up wet anyway. Usually, the only time my Frogg Toggs come out is in camp.
A great post Alligator.
It's taken me about 2 years to finally get in tune with myself and adequately pace with the Rest Step. I'm using the same technique to stave off sweating as much as possible. There is a fine-line between hiking cold, and staying warm without sweating.
I keep my hat and mittens zipped up above my chest under my shell when it's cold and windy. Between removing your hat and altering your pace you can really minimize your sweating. A sweat-soaked layer of insulation in sub-freezing weather is downright dangerous when your spending the night in the woods and not on a day hike. Even snow that is shaken onto you from burdened trees can cause discomfort if your not wearing a shell. It's almost impossible to dry insulative layers in the winter.
Good info in the last 2 posts. A windproof durable shell is very important in the winter, and it need not be waterproof as long as temperatures stay below freezing. Non-waterproof shells are always more breathable than waterproof-breathable shells. Adjust your insulation under the shell so that you're comfortable with your hat on, then as you warm up hiking, you can remove the hat, and quickly put it back on when the temperature drops or the wind picks up. The only time I'll hike without a shell in winter is when I'm down to my base layer of polypro.
posted a note on how great this stuff is a couple of days ago.... if you want to find the site go to www.rainshield.com... they are the makers...sorry for the lac of clarity.
Wow-haven't been on here forever, but my password still worked! Thanks for not changing everything just because it was possible. Anyway, was looking for opinions on the silnylon as a rain suit. I see that I totally agree with DebW about wet vs dry. I don't find the breatheable fabrics very helpful. My favorite rain suit is beyond worn out. I think I'll order some silnylon and make a replacement. Thanks for the info.