I was planning on taking my pocket rocket with me to springer mountain next week does anyone know what temp they quit working or dont work as well. I am debating looking for some kind of white gas stove
Printable View
I was planning on taking my pocket rocket with me to springer mountain next week does anyone know what temp they quit working or dont work as well. I am debating looking for some kind of white gas stove
Well at least tell us what you found out, Please.
BTW I have a Simmerlite I purchased used on WB. It is a great little stove and does simmer at least mine does. It has the old style pump tho.
About 15° is the lowest temp isobutane will vaporize at at most "normal" elevations. But anything below 30° though and you'll start having performance issues. As long as the cannister though is reasonably warm it will vaporize gas, so boiling up water for meals shouldn't be an issue. Windscreen will help a lot too. Some tips are to keep the fuel cannister / stove in your clothing and/or sleeping bag to warm it up prior to using it and use a small piece of insulation under the cannister to insulate it from the ground.
I second 4eyedbuzzard. Get one on the higher mixed ratios and keep it stuffed next to something warm (read as: yourself). There is also info under the thru-hiking info of this sit.
If you haven't kept the fuel canister in your sleeping bag at night or in your pants somewhere during the day, then rub vigorously with your hands on the outside of the canister for a few minutes -- kinetic energy thingy.
While doing the "Around Manaslu" trek in Nepal one year, we ran into two brothers from the Basque country who were attempting to summit all the 8,000 meter peaks in the world.
They had just finished Manasalu and were heading to Annapurna II i believe and their helicopter was waiting.
We got to talk to them for a while and were surprised to find out that they used propane fuel in the GAZ blue canisters for their heating snow and the little food that they did cook (more teas than food from what i remember) They went through 2 canisters a day on average.
Manaslu is around 26,000+ feet from what i remember.
ps. as a sad footnote, one of the brothers died on the next mountain on their list. (they only had 2 more to go)
pss. the man flying the helicopter was the Nepal Air Force officer who flew the famous rescue mission on the highest rescue ever to get Beck Wethers off the mountain that fateful year on Everest.
He was very accomadating and answered all of our questions.
Snow peak or jetboil canisters works better in colder weather. Forget msr or the others.
Biggest thing in cold weather is to warm the canister thouroughly with body heat by putting it inside your insulation layer, be it jacket or sleeping bag, prior to using it so it can vaporize the fuel. The more you use a cannister when temps are below freezing, the more of the propane in the butane/propane mixture gets burned as it is the liquid vaporizing and supplying the pressure. The butane part, which is the majority of the fuel (between 70 and 85 % depending upon the manufacturers mix), doesn't vaporize below 30F (propane will vaporize down to minus 10F I think, I may be off on that temp), and eventually you can be left with a partially full canister of butane that won't work in cold temps without a lot of prewarming. A full windscreen that reflects / contains some of the stove heat and helps keep the canister warm helps as well. Canister cozys are also used by some. Most mixes are 15% propane or so, but you can buy them with higher propane ratios - where I'm not completely sure.
FWIW though, they use canister stoves from MSR, Jetboil, etc in the high camps on most mountaineering expeditions (safest fuel/stoves inside tents), so it can be done with proper technique.
I find the MSR isobutane/propane canisters to work very well in cold weather, at least as well as the Jetboil. The inexpensive Snow Peak didn't work as well for me.
One way to get more performance out of a canister is to use a stove that allows the canister to be inverted. The stove has to have a vaporization tube, and it needs to be pre-heated, then the canister inverted. The stove then uses liquid fuel, which is vaporized in the tube -- works a lot better in very cold weather.
Of course, that's tough to do with a Pocket Rocket. :)
Mixed fuel canister stoves are designed for higher mountains than the AT, Springer isn't high enough to affect the mix, but winds of 12mph, cold and other factors can make boiling miserable. I find it interesting that folks are recommending one over the other based on the initial post. There are tests and articles on the internet from Backpacker and BPL that one can read for the information you seek.
I will look a little futher to see if there is a tested recomendation... until then... here is BPL' Article
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...stove_faq.html
Just want to say I find this thread very useful and helpful. Thanks everyone for your insights.
I've taken my Coleman ultralight canister stove (a virtual clone of the Pocket Rocket) in cold weather with mixed results. If I take it on this year's planned winter hikes, at least I've got some tips here on increasing its effectiveness.
I've used canister stoves in winter without particular problems until the temps approach zero. At those temps, even a pre-warmed canister soon chills from the pressure release (that's how your fridge works), and the pressure drops to a point where it's tough to generate enough heat to boil water, particluarly if the environment isn't helping (i.e. wind). At -20, I could prepare a meal only with a full canister, but soon it barely stayed lit. The stove was a much older model from the 70's, I don't know how well my newer canister stoves will perform at those temps, but I'll find out someday (but I'll have my MSR Whisperlight available)
Springer in December shouldn't be a problem for a pocket rocket, IMHO.
If I recall my (very) early reading on this subject (as a freshman at Albright College and a new backpacker in the early '70's), the vaporization issues are a function of temperature AND altitude. At sea level, straight butane doesn't do well below freezing, but as you increase your altitude, ability of the gas to vaporize increases relative to the ambient air presssure. I don't have the charts at my fingertips.
At one time, straight butane stoves were common on high mountaineering expeditions. Back at sea level, they started mixing propane and butane because the mixture eliminated some of the altitude/temperature problems associated with straight butane. (Please note, I am not a scientist, nor do I play one on TV.)
Like karo, I have an old MSR SimmerLite stove. It works very well in winter and you won't have to sleep with your fuel bottle. Go ahead and get yourself a stove that burns whitegas.
My very first stove dating back to 1976 was a pure butane canister. Nice and lightweight. I remember having a few problems with cold mornings on the Long Trail but overall, I was quite pleased with it.
Don't know what I did with the stove but I still have an unused unopened canister. Little rusty around the edges. Don't know what to do with it.
Last week on the Loyalsock the temp got down to around 20. My buddy brought his coleman cannister stove and couldn't get his water to a boil. It got hot but never actually boiled and he ended up overcooking his food thinking it needed to keep cooking. I brought my simmerlite and had boiling water in about 3 minutes... well worth the weight penalty if it's going to be cold out.
Jetboil makes a supposed four season fuel mix that I have used along with a pocket rocket down to single digit temps. The cook times increase significantly as the temperature lowers but it gets the job done. As said by previous posters, pre-warm the fuel canister by sticking it inside your jacket and try to use a wind screen. I have gotten desperate at times and put my hands around the canister while it was in use in order to keep the fuel warm enough, I wouldn't recommend it, but then again I was hungry.
canister stoves never fail to work even at 0F if there is an alcohol stove under them...i know the naysayers will say its a bomb waiting to happen...YMMV
So I need two stoves to heat up hot water ????? Why carry two stoves when one will do?
I am all for saving weight, but I also believe in the KISS principle, too! :)
I found that my trusty propane did not work very well at all a few weeks ago in single digit tempts. Switched to the white gas unit I thoughtfully packed and I was rocking again. (It was Coleman two-burner. Can use propane with the converter or the original white gas.)
Likewise, when I winter backpack, I'd rather not futz around with sleeping with my canister, lighting another stove to get one stove working (?), etc. etc. etc.
Carry my Simmerlite and call it good.
Of course, 'winter' backpacking is such a nebulous term. Winter at Springer Mtn in February is not the same as Mitchell Lake in Colorado at 11k ft. (I've been to both places in February..they are a tad different! :D)
Then again, backpacking in Hawaii in Feb sounds rather nice...if a bit different as well. :)
All depends on what you do, how much snow (if any) you want to melt and how many coconuts are available for drinking out of (see above about backpacking in HI in Feb... has a low 70F currently!!!)
Etc. Etc. Etc. Thank (Insert Diety of your choice here) there are so many choices to backpack with. ;)
Don't think anyone addressed the OP, but the 'green ones' are straight up propane vs the mixed propane/butane canisters that are sold for backpacking stoves.
Propane is better in colder weather (if gets less efficient than white gas) than the mixed fuel canisters.
The drawback is that propane has to be pressurized more and the fuel canisters are much heavier than the ones you use for your SnoPeak/JetBoil/etc. They are fine for car camping, but a bit heavier than most backpackers want to carry.
In the end, since you are going to springer mtn, a canister (or even an alchy stove) will be just fine. Sleep with the canister, and try to find one with more propane and less butane as that mix will burn hotter and better even as the canister gets more used.
Good luck!
One thing not mentioned in this thread, is that the performance of the cannister vares dependent upon how full it is, especially if its mostly being used during cold conditions. Most of the cannisters are blends of butane and propane, during cold conditions the propane preferentially vaporizes initially, leading to reasonable performance. As the cannister empties, the blend of butane and propane ends up becoming mostly butane and the perfomance suffers.
There are creative ways of keeping cannisters warm but nothing commerical as the liability of potentially having a canister burst into a ball of flame makes the insurance expensive. I have heard some people swear by using the reusable heat packs that use a phase change material (sodium acetate?) to generate heat. They activate one and stick it under the cannister prior to lighting the stove. Once they get the stove cranked up to bol wateer usually there is enough reflect heat off the bottom of the pot to heat the cannister . Then they reactivate the heater by putting it in the boiling water.
The cannister was used but had enough left in it to run for about 20 minutes in the morning attempting to boil 2 cups of water for mac n cheese. He had the lid on while cooking.Quote:
Originaly Posted by Cookerhiker Sounds like he has my stove. Did he keep the lid on the pot while attempting to boil the water? And how full was the canister? I know you can't discern this with specificity but approximately - half, full, near-empty?
Inre green canisters, unfortunately Coleman also uses some green on their "isobutane" canisters, as does Optimus I believe. That said, I kind of assumed the 3/4" or so diameter threads on the propane minitanks (can I call them that?) would be a kind of giveaway that they aren't hiking stove canisters. But, then again, maybe not. :o If you've never seen one, well, I guess you could get confused.
All these flammable gas threads have me "zelph dreaming" - thinking of how to make lightweight acetylene and mapp gas stoves :-? :eek:
Why not use a battery powe sock around the cannister and keep it warm that way don't think it will
go boom gone to try in later this see if it work.
The stove I mentioned is a a Coleman 425 (or similar) . It is a wg stove used for car camping.
Converters are sold to use the small propane (1#) tanks and additional converters are sold so they can use type 1 (5# or higher) refillable propane tanks as well.
A bit impractical for backpacking (but good for winter and/or early shoulder season) basecamps.
I don't know of any dual use white gas/propane backpacking stoves off hand. But, I'd be lying if I said I knew of every widget out there... :)
Paul Propane doesn't work as well as a mix that is clear, what does work in Colorado?
If you hike with a canister stove in this weather, then you will need to borrow another stove from someone else.
Panzer
something wrong with that canister is designed for high altitude... need more input...
http://www.johnny-five.com/scrapbook/3fives.jpg
The Wise old owl is getting mixed up and I think missed the point of what Buzzard and I were saying. :)
I'd rehash it... (and I almost did)...but sufficient to say your sentence is rather wrong. ;)
To sum it up: Propane is better than mixed isobutane..but is required to be in too heavy of a canister for backpacking.